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Reds Fanatic
11-28-2006, 02:43 PM
The Cubs are not done spending money. They have made a 3 year $45 million dollar offer to Jason Schmidt.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/28/schmidt.cubs/index.html


The Cubs, anxious to steal the winter and maybe the summer, too, are now pursuing star free-agent pitcher Jason Schmidt, SI.com has learned. The Cubs already have spent $239 million on free agents (including the $10 million they used for new manager Lou Piniella), and two high-ranking baseball people said they are bidding about $45 million over three years for Schmidt in attempt to lure him away from the West Coast.

It may not be easy in his case. The Yankees showed interest in Schmidt several days ago but were told that he didn't want to move all the away across the country, to New York.

The Mariners and Dodgers are seen as the favorites for Schmidt, the longtime San Francisco Giant who is from Washington state. Seattle has stated its desire to land one frontline starter, if not two. The Dodgers just signed Randy Wolf to a one-year, $8-million deal and are negotiating with Greg Maddux, who's drawing interest from San Diego, as well.

The Cubs, obviously hungry to break their streak of not winning the World Series since 1908, made the biggest score so far this winter when they signed Alfonso Soriano for $136 million over eight years. But they haven't stopped there.

Pitching is the Cubs' stated priority now, and Schmidt is one of two No. 1-type starters on the free agent market, along with left-hander Barry Zito. The Cubs have previously been reported to have interest in Gil Meche.

Always Red
11-28-2006, 02:48 PM
mind boggling.

Schmidt has only twice won more than 13 games, and has won only 23 in the last 2 years. His value seems to be his dependability; he's not often hurt.

I'm speechless; I wouldn't spend Milton money on Schmidt, at this point in his career, much less double that.

cumberlandreds
11-28-2006, 02:49 PM
The Cubs are on their way to surpassing the Yankees for top payroll. They should know that doesn't guarantee a World Series.

Red Leader
11-28-2006, 02:54 PM
I'm getting pretty anxious to find out how the Cubs lose it next year.

Joseph
11-28-2006, 03:45 PM
They're still the Cubs. :)

I don't buy into curses or anything, but c'mon, it's the Cubs. They are baby bears, not ferocious beasts, they might bite you and scare you for a second, but unless they bring momma bear and poppa bear I'm not scared of the teeny, tiny Cubbies.

TOBTTReds
11-28-2006, 03:53 PM
mind boggling.

Schmidt has only twice won more than 13 games, and has won only 23 in the last 2 years. His value seems to be his dependability; he's not often hurt.

I'm speechless; I wouldn't spend Milton money on Schmidt, at this point in his career, much less double that.

Are you serious? Forget about wins. He has started 29 games in each of the last 5 years. Posted a career 3.91 ERA, which he has only touched once in the last six years. He gives up a many fewer hits than IP, while K'ing about the same as IP in the last 5 years. This guy is a stud.

The only question is that he is 33, but I'd offer him this much money based on what other players are getting (maybe not if I were the Reds with a limited budget, but for teams that are willing to spend, I do not think this is a bad deal).

oneupper
11-28-2006, 03:55 PM
Wayne should match that.

Always Red
11-28-2006, 04:02 PM
Are you serious? Forget about wins. He has started 29 games in each of the last 5 years. Posted a career 3.91 ERA, which he has only touched once in the last six years. He gives up a many fewer hits than IP, while K'ing about the same as IP in the last 5 years. This guy is a stud.

The only question is that he is 33, but I'd offer him this much money based on what other players are getting (maybe not if I were the Reds with a limited budget, but for teams that are willing to spend, I do not think this is a bad deal).

$45 million for three years? Are you serious?;)

If he can get that, good for him; but I think he'd be grossly overpaid, and I wouldn't want the Reds shelling out that kind of money for him, when we have two guys who I think are already better than Schmidt. He's no stud in my book, but that's my opinion; and I do respect your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it as well.

Since when do wins mean nothing for starting pitchers? Lack of wins can reflect either crappy offensive support, a problem with getting the game safely into the hands of the bullpen, or a crappy bullpen which is blowing saves.

I understand there are other important indicators as you stated, but I'll stand by my opinion. I'd love to have Schmidt on this staff, but not at that outrageous cost.

Johnny Footstool
11-28-2006, 04:07 PM
Since when do wins mean nothing for starting pitchers? Lack of wins can reflect either crappy offensive support, a problem with getting the game safely into the hands of the bullpen, or a crappy bullpen which is blowing saves.

You just made an argument against yourself. Wins rely on too many external factors to be an accurate indicator of a pitcher's abilities.

Jeff Suppan and Jason Marquis each won more games than Jason Schmidt last season. That should tell you all you need to know about Wins.

15fan
11-28-2006, 04:49 PM
I was an undergrad in business school not too long after the RJR - KKR merger debacle went down. Somewhere I remember a line from one of the executives (either a book or in a class lecture) that went something like this:

"If we piss away $800 million on Sealand Shipping, we'll be less susceptible to a takeover."

That executive is obviously now employed in the Cubs' front office.

VR
11-28-2006, 04:55 PM
Wayne should match that.


Yep. Life gets really good when you have 3 starters going 200 quality innings.

Team Clark
11-28-2006, 05:07 PM
You just made an argument against yourself. Wins rely on too many external factors to be an accurate indicator of a pitcher's abilities.

Jeff Suppan and Jason Marquis each won more games than Jason Schmidt last season. That should tell you all you need to know about Wins.

Just ask Clemens as an Astro.

flyer85
11-28-2006, 05:08 PM
Wayne should match that.even if he had the money there are very large issues with that (like zero chance of signing Harang after giving that deal).

I would guess that it will not take in the $17-20M a year range to sign Zambrano if they give that deal to Schmidt. Nothing is ever done in a vacuum.

ramp101
11-28-2006, 05:35 PM
Cubbies are gonna be dangerous next season.

BRM
11-28-2006, 05:37 PM
Cubbies are gonna be dangerous next season.

If they sign Schmidt. He hasn't signed yet. ;)

Falls City Beer
11-28-2006, 05:57 PM
I know it may be a tired concept, but the Cubs always find a way to suck. It seems to defy almost physical laws, but somehow the Cubs reinvent the wheel of suck.

Red Leader
11-28-2006, 05:59 PM
I know it may be a tired concept, but the Cubs always find a way to suck. It seems to defy almost physical laws, but somehow the Cubs reinvent the wheel of suck.

Agreed. My guess is that if Schmidt is signed, he finds a way to spend 1/2 the season on the DL.

Spring~Fields
11-28-2006, 06:27 PM
Cubbies are gonna be dangerous next season.

I think so, they still have trades they can make too in addition to FA signings, so don't the Cards and Astro's.

CougarQuest
11-28-2006, 06:41 PM
Schmidt is the pitcher who was on my wish list for the Reds, but thought it was only a pipe dream because he wanted to play on the west coast and the money would be too high.

buckeyenut
11-28-2006, 07:03 PM
If the money is there, which I firmly believe it is, I would offer Schmidt 3 yr/50M immediately. And I wouldn't think twice. I would also offer him 4 yr/55-58M as well if I thought the extra year would be more likely to get it done.

Schmidt is an ace. Schmidt makes the Reds dangerous in 2007. Schmidt is a guy worth the risk IMO.

WMR
11-28-2006, 07:28 PM
My buddy OutShinedOne says that Bruce Miles of the Daily Herald, a beat reporter he trusts, has said this rumor is false and that the cubs have not made an offer to Schmidt; that this is Schmidt's agent trying to chum up the waters.

M2
11-28-2006, 07:55 PM
I've kind of been expecting the Cardinals to swoop in on a big-name pitcher, particularly on Schmidt. Though the way Jocketty operates, you won't see it coming until it's too late.

Falls City Beer
11-28-2006, 08:08 PM
I've kind of been expecting the Cardinals to swoop in on a big-name pitcher, particularly on Schmidt. Though the way Jocketty operates, you won't see it coming until it's too late.

You can bet your arse that whatever Wayne picks, Walt will trump with relative ease.

westofyou
11-28-2006, 08:12 PM
You can bet your arse that whatever Wayne picks, Walt will trump with relative ease.

You mean the same Walt Jocketty who inked Sidney Ponson last winter? Is he infallible? I think not.

Heath
11-28-2006, 08:12 PM
If the money is there, which I firmly believe it is, I would offer Schmidt 3 yr/50M immediately. And I wouldn't think twice. I would also offer him 4 yr/55-58M as well if I thought the extra year would be more likely to get it done.

Schmidt is an ace. Schmidt makes the Reds dangerous in 2007. Schmidt is a guy worth the risk IMO.

A 38 year old pitcher subject to injuries making $15 million/year.

Obscene. And the Reds should pass. Quickly.

I'm still in the Ted Lilly camp. My guess is that he's not going to sign until all the other dominos fall.

Red in Chicago
11-28-2006, 08:47 PM
wow, "wrigley south" aka great american ballpark is going to be awefully blue when the cubbies come to town...it will be unbearable:bang:

Mario-Rijo
11-28-2006, 09:09 PM
The Chicago Cubs have talked to the Cleveland Indians about a deal for pitcher Jake Westbrook, according to baseball moles. The Tribe would get pitcher Ryan Dempster among others in return for Westbrook (15-10 4.17era).




Here is a deal I want in on, the Cubs most likely are in on this. If they can start with an offer of Dumpster I truly believe we can easily beat that. If I had to offer a FA starter this year it would be Vicente Padilla. 4 yrs 40 mill? 10mill a year isn't a bad offer for a guy who K's 2 guys to every 1 he walks. And a guy who is likely to give you most of what you want out of him for the next 4 years as he is only 29!

BTW Schmidt is going to stay on the West Coast bet on it.

Spike
11-28-2006, 10:59 PM
If the money is there, which I firmly believe it is, I would offer Schmidt 3 yr/50M immediately. And I wouldn't think twice. I would also offer him 4 yr/55-58M as well if I thought the extra year would be more likely to get it done.

Schmidt is an ace. Schmidt makes the Reds dangerous in 2007. Schmidt is a guy worth the risk IMO.



I wrote this same thing in my head today even before this thread started. I have a buddy who is also a lifetime Reds fan and I have been telling him for weeks that if we could get Schmidt for three years $50 million, it would be worth every penny. He is one of the only players available that could possibly put us over the top. Schmidt would put everyone in their proper rotation order including sending Belisle to the bullpen where we need him!

Caveat Emperor
11-28-2006, 11:33 PM
You can bet your arse that whatever Wayne picks, Walt will trump with relative ease.

He saw Wayne's Alex Gonzalez and raised him one Adam Kennedy.

By my count, that puis WK ahead going to the flop.

TOBTTReds
11-28-2006, 11:54 PM
A 38 year old pitcher subject to injuries making $15 million/year.

Obscene. And the Reds should pass. Quickly.

I'm still in the Ted Lilly camp. My guess is that he's not going to sign until all the other dominos fall.

He's 33 years old and has made at least 29 starts in all of the last 5 seasons. If that is injury prone, then Griffey died a while ago.

redsandrails
11-29-2006, 12:18 AM
Schmidt deserves a little credit... Earlier some people criticized his W-L records, however, even this argument is not viable. The man was 78-37 for the Giants, with the exception of Bonds a VERY offensively bland team. He even had a WHIP below 1 one year. The man has been pitching like an ace about 75% of the time the past 6 years. And the other times he's still pitching to #3 standards. A short term commitment but high salary deal would be attractive for the Reds and imagine a rotation of Schmidt/Bailey/Arroyo/Harang/Ramirez or Claussen. That would be amongst the best rotations in baseball. Schmidt needs to be a priority for us to compete; if we don't get him and have to cope with another team gaining him then we're screwed.

Jpup
11-29-2006, 02:32 AM
Schmidt deserves a little credit... Earlier some people criticized his W-L records, however, even this argument is not viable. The man was 78-37 for the Giants, with the exception of Bonds a VERY offensively bland team. He even had a WHIP below 1 one year. The man has been pitching like an ace about 75% of the time the past 6 years. And the other times he's still pitching to #3 standards. A short term commitment but high salary deal would be attractive for the Reds and imagine a rotation of Schmidt/Bailey/Arroyo/Harang/Ramirez or Claussen. That would be amongst the best rotations in baseball. Schmidt needs to be a priority for us to compete; if we don't get him and have to cope with another team gaining him then we're screwed.

The Reds ain't getting Jason Schmidt or Barry Zito or anyone like that by signing them through free agency and I don't blame them really. The only way you will see frontline starters on the Reds are through trades or the farm system.

It would beyond my understanding as to why anyone would give this guy 15 million to play in Chicago. They can afford to screw it up, but the Reds can't. The FA crop of players this season outside of Soriano was/is complete junk for the most part.

Pass Wayne, pass.

Heath
11-29-2006, 08:36 AM
He's 33 years old and has made at least 29 starts in all of the last 5 seasons. If that is injury prone, then Griffey died a while ago.

I'm saying at the back end of his contract when he's 38 and injured he's getting a bucketful of cash that this board would go "Uncle Miltie" on him.

The short-term effects might be ok, but the future of that contract would scare me.