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View Full Version : Wayne O's laying down!!!!!



fewfirstchoice
11-28-2006, 05:12 PM
Looks like WK is just sittng around and watching all the good bullpen arms getting signed.Bradford,Baez,Walker, and all the good arms are gone.So whats WK going to do to feel the closer role.Looks like another year of closer by commitee.Oh wait we signed a 40 year old Stanton,its took care of right.:bang:

Kc61
11-28-2006, 05:16 PM
Didn't he make some comment publicly that he (Wayne) wasn't thrilled with the quality of the free agent closers?

cinredsfan2000
11-28-2006, 05:26 PM
You dont suppose this is waynes doing do ya ? Nah cant be the price is far to steep for us :D .per S.I.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/28/igawa.bid/index.html

jmac
11-28-2006, 05:28 PM
just wonderin what talks wayne is havin right now.
wolf, eaton,baez have all signed. kip wells has or is close to it.
i heard on espn radio the sox and angels close to a deal:crede and garcia for figgins and santana.
I had hoped reds would check into santana.

Falls City Beer
11-28-2006, 05:30 PM
Yeah. Wayne's just rope-a-doping the competition; wait until everyone goes bankrupt from all these FA signings--THEN we'll have 'em where we want 'em. :devil:

Matt700wlw
11-28-2006, 05:33 PM
We don't know what's going on behind closed doors.

However, it has gotten rather quiet lately

jmac
11-28-2006, 05:35 PM
Yeah. Wayne's just rope-a-doping the competition; wait until every goes bankrupt from all these FA signings--THEN we'll have 'em where we want 'em. :devil::laugh:

i'm laughing on the outside and wondering if you're right on the inside !

Patpacillosjock
11-28-2006, 05:48 PM
Scott Williamson at 900,000. And we signed Stanton at 1,000,000 for 2 years.

I pray to the imaginary friend up in heaven that Reds fans would come to their senses and realize that its not about impatience..its about WK being incompetent.

Severely so.

I'm actually considering writing a letter to the Enquirer with the help of my good friend Terrane Moore (THE sports editor for the Atlanta-Journal) to publicly denounce and list every single folly of WK and this F.O.

we've written up a pretty humorous pice that details chronilogically along with comparing what other GM's have done during the same time span with the same amount of money.

you WK defenders would have to eat crow with a side of 3 day old skyline chilli.

Ltlabner
11-28-2006, 06:09 PM
I'm actually considering writing a letter to the Enquirer.....

Will it be as elloquent as your post under the "are you happy with the direction we are headed" thread? :rolleyes:

Spring~Fields
11-28-2006, 06:15 PM
We don't know what's going on behind closed doors.

However, it has gotten rather quiet lately

Problem is we don't know what is going on behind the Cardinals, Astro's and Cubs closed doors, we know what they have reportedly done, and we also know that the trading season is not over for them anymore than it is for Wayne, and that they can still do more between now and the start of the regular season. Wayne, well, he better start peddling real fast. :)

Matt700wlw
11-28-2006, 06:17 PM
I won't argue that...he still has work to do, whether it's now, or through trades later in the offseason....there's still work to do.

Team Clark
11-28-2006, 06:17 PM
Scott Williamson at 900,000. And we signed Stanton at 1,000,000 for 2 years.

I pray to the imaginary friend up in heaven that Reds fans would come to their senses and realize that its not about impatience..its about WK being incompetent.

Severely so.

I'm actually considering writing a letter to the Enquirer with the help of my good friend Terrane Moore (THE sports editor for the Atlanta-Journal) to publicly denounce and list every single folly of WK and this F.O.

we've written up a pretty humorous pice that details chronilogically along with comparing what other GM's have done during the same time span with the same amount of money.

you WK defenders would have to eat crow with a side of 3 day old skyline chilli.


Didn't Terrance used to write for the Cincinnati Post? As I recall he was/is a very sharp writer. He may even have had a few cameos on the "Sports Century" pieces produced by ESPN.

ochre
11-28-2006, 06:21 PM
Yeah. Wayne's just rope-a-doping the competition; wait until everyone goes bankrupt from all these FA signings--THEN we'll have 'em where we want 'em. :devil:
That's know as the "Mike Brown Plan For NFL Free Agency" around these parts.

Spring~Fields
11-28-2006, 06:21 PM
TC,
Have you heard of even the slightest rumor that Wayne K might be pointing toward doing? even if you believe it to be fact or fiction?

reds44
11-28-2006, 06:22 PM
We don't know what's going on behind closed doors.

However, it has gotten rather quiet lately
Do you expect him to sign somebody every day?

Matt700wlw
11-28-2006, 06:23 PM
Do you expect him to sign somebody every day?

No I don't....didn't mean for it come across that way.

remdog
11-28-2006, 06:24 PM
Gee, an actual letter to the Enquirer! What will we think of next!?!

Hopefully, your editor friend will have spell-check, know punctuation and actually know when to use capital letters.

I'm not defending Wayne. In fact, I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with him everyday but your post comes off as 'sophmorific'.

You're probably wondering why your rep points are so low; with those kind of posts I'm wondering why it's that high.

The *****ing from the peanut gallery isn't going to change things right now. What will, possibly, change things are the teams' performance on the field in '07 as well as attendance and Bob Castellinie's actual commitment to win. One of the worst things to happen to the Reds recently was the idea that they were in a pennant race in '06. People that watch and understand the game know that was never the case. Unfortunately, it will take at least another year to work through that. And letters to the Enquirer, no matter how well written, are not going to change that.

Rem

Tom Servo
11-28-2006, 06:29 PM
There's really no one in free agency that strikes my fancy as a closer, especially at the rates they're going for. I'd love to get Justin Duchscherer from the A's to give the closer job to but that's probably just a pipe dream.

Patpacillosjock
11-28-2006, 06:29 PM
Didn't Terrance used to write for the Cincinnati Post? As I recall he was/is a very sharp writer. He may even have had a few cameos on the "Sports Century" pieces produced by ESPN.

yes and yes he's been on quite a few Sports Century pieces and he is also a fellow Miami University alumn.

I once had dinner with he and PJ O'rourke (another Miami University alumn) and I came to find out that the movie Animal House (with belushi) was based on O'rourke's experiences while a student at Miami U and oxford (remember that "black" hagnout in the movie? Right off highway 27 leading into oxford!)

dunner13
11-28-2006, 06:30 PM
Williamson - 900K
Kip Wells - 4 mill for one year.

Two deals I would have liked to have seen the reds make. Wayne may have with wells who knows, but it seems like williamson would probably be more then willing to come back to cincinnati so why not give him 1 million for a year. It would have been better then the stanton signing, more risky but with more upside.

Hopefully wayne is holding out for a big trade with the tigers during the winter meetings.

Handofdeath
11-28-2006, 06:32 PM
Scott Williamson at 900,000. And we signed Stanton at 1,000,000 for 2 years.

I pray to the imaginary friend up in heaven that Reds fans would come to their senses and realize that its not about impatience..its about WK being incompetent.

Severely so.

I'm actually considering writing a letter to the Enquirer with the help of my good friend Terrane Moore (THE sports editor for the Atlanta-Journal) to publicly denounce and list every single folly of WK and this F.O.

we've written up a pretty humorous pice that details chronilogically along with comparing what other GM's have done during the same time span with the same amount of money.

you WK defenders would have to eat crow with a side of 3 day old skyline chilli.

Williamson should be happy he got that much. The Reds should not have even considered him. He makes Griffey look healthy by comparison. He is always hurt and when he's not he hasn't pitched effectively. 2003 was the last season he stayed healthy and his ERA was over 4 and his WHIP was 1.40. The injuries have taken their toll and the way he pitches puts too much strain on his arm for him to ever stay healthy and pitch effective.

Patpacillosjock
11-28-2006, 06:34 PM
Will it be as elloquent as your post under the "are you happy with the direction we are headed" thread? :rolleyes:

My internet posting style has no reflection upon how I write my pieces in my real life activities. If I really gave a damn about elloquently describing my feelings for a bunch of faceless strangers on an internet message board, then I would feel like a loser for dedicating an hour using references and fact driven statements to write out a single post so that you, kind sir, can fully understand the ideas I am attempting to share.

Furthermore, I feel that it would be condenscending to attempt to write out something that is Pulitzer worthy, when in essence, I post as if I was talking with a bunch of friends over a pitcher and song wings at a local sports bar. The fact that you can't identify that seems to non-verbally express your own "elloquance"

but thanks for caring and pointing that out. I feel so enlightened.

remdog
11-28-2006, 06:35 PM
I once had dinner with he and PJ O'rourke (another Miami University alumn) and I came to find out that the movie Animal House (with belushi) was based on O'rourke's experiences while a student at Miami U and oxford (remember that "black" hagnout in the movie? Right off highway 27 leading into oxford!)

According to Hollywood history that would be incorrect.

Rem

Patpacillosjock
11-28-2006, 06:38 PM
According to Hollywood history that would be incorrect.

Rem

According from the author it IS correct.

VR
11-28-2006, 06:38 PM
Williamson - 900K
Kip Wells - 4 mill for one year.

Two deals I would have liked to have seen the reds make. Wayne may have with wells who knows, but it seems like williamson would probably be more then willing to come back to cincinnati so why not give him 1 million for a year. It would have been better then the stanton signing, more risky but with more upside.

Hopefully wayne is holding out for a big trade with the tigers during the winter meetings.

Hopefully Wayne is holding out to avoid pitchers whose ERA's have gone 4.55 to 5.09 to 6.50 in the last 3 years, along with a cumulative WHIP around 1.75.

Spring~Fields
11-28-2006, 06:40 PM
Rem,

Your usually the colorful voice of reason, setting back taking it all in and then you normally write a fine piece laying it all out for us in a very clear and reasonable manner.

Are we all being somewhat silly for trying to speculate one way or another when it comes to this thing called the off-season?

What do you see, and what does your vision tell you that you might share with us?

Patpacillosjock
11-28-2006, 06:40 PM
Gee, an actual letter to the Enquirer! What will we think of next!?!

Hopefully, your editor friend will have spell-check, know punctuation and actually know when to use capital letters.

I'm not defending Wayne. In fact, I'm becoming more and more disenchanted with him everyday but your post comes off as 'sophmorific'.

You're probably wondering why your rep points are so low; with those kind of posts I'm wondering why it's that high.

The *****ing from the peanut gallery isn't going to change things right now. What will, possibly, change things are the teams' performance on the field in '07 as well as attendance and Bob Castellinie's actual commitment to win. One of the worst things to happen to the Reds recently was the idea that they were in a pennant race in '06. People that watch and understand the game know that was never the case. Unfortunately, it will take at least another year to work through that. And letters to the Enquirer, no matter how well written, are not going to change that.

Rem



Maybe not but its my right as a fan to share my opinion and maybe get it published so that others can read it.


oh and in regards to my punctuation and grammer just read my above post.

pedro
11-28-2006, 06:42 PM
According from the author it IS correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_House

Animal House was based on Chris Miller's experience at his own fraternity (Alpha Delta Phi) at the Ivy League's Dartmouth College, in Hanover, New Hampshire. Additional inspiration came from Harold Ramis's experiences at Washington University in St. Louis where he was a member of Zeta Beta Tau Fraternity.

http://www.avclub.com/content/node/24198

PO: Exactly. The Lampoon started in 1970, and I began writing freelance for them around the end of 1971, and then all through '72. They hired me in '73, and I left early in '81. I did everything from low puns to being editor-in-chief. I bought my first house because of Animal House. Not that I had anything to do with the movie, but at one point I went in and asked for a raise, and they cried poor and offered me stock options instead. And, in the wake of Animal House, the stock briefly and quite wrongly shot up. So I love that movie.

Patpacillosjock
11-28-2006, 06:45 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_House

Animal House was based on Chris Miller's experience at his own fraternity (Alpha Delta Phi) at the Ivy League's Dartmouth College, in Hanover, New Hampshire. Additional inspiration came from Harold Ramis's experiences at Washington University in St. Louis where he was a member of Zeta Beta Tau Fraternity.

Co-screenwriters have nothing to do with an original idea. they have to adapt a text so that it can be made into a movie.

Patpacillosjock
11-28-2006, 06:46 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_House

Animal House was based on Chris Miller's experience at his own fraternity (Alpha Delta Phi) at the Ivy League's Dartmouth College, in Hanover, New Hampshire. Additional inspiration came from Harold Ramis's experiences at Washington University in St. Louis where he was a member of Zeta Beta Tau Fraternity.

http://www.avclub.com/content/node/24198

PO: Exactly. The Lampoon started in 1970, and I began writing freelance for them around the end of 1971, and then all through '72. They hired me in '73, and I left early in '81. I did everything from low puns to being editor-in-chief. I bought my first house because of Animal House. Not that I had anything to do with the movie, but at one point I went in and asked for a raise, and they cried poor and offered me stock options instead. And, in the wake of Animal House, the stock briefly and quite wrongly shot up. So I love that movie.


he didnt make the movie. he helped write the original idea for the movie but then the screenwriters adapt it, then they sell it to a studio to be made into film

He did not work on the movie. correct. I never said that. He told me the ideas at National Lampoon that he would write about and offer were used.

buckeyenut
11-28-2006, 06:47 PM
Scott Williamson at 900,000. And we signed Stanton at 1,000,000 for 2 years.

I pray to the imaginary friend up in heaven that Reds fans would come to their senses and realize that its not about impatience..its about WK being incompetent.

Severely so.

I'm actually considering writing a letter to the Enquirer with the help of my good friend Terrane Moore (THE sports editor for the Atlanta-Journal) to publicly denounce and list every single folly of WK and this F.O.

we've written up a pretty humorous pice that details chronilogically along with comparing what other GM's have done during the same time span with the same amount of money.

you WK defenders would have to eat crow with a side of 3 day old skyline chilli.

Willy is 900K PLUS INCENTIVES, which I am sure will be substantial considering his potential and his coming off injury. Stanton probably has very few incentives, so this is a little one sided.

pedro
11-28-2006, 06:50 PM
nm

Redny
11-28-2006, 06:50 PM
You dont suppose this is waynes doing do ya ? Nah cant be the price is far to steep for us :D .per S.I.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/28/igawa.bid/index.html


Early reports are it's the Yanks who won the latest bidding for Japanese talent.

Red in Atl
11-28-2006, 07:08 PM
According from the author it IS correct.

PJ is not the friggin' author of the screenplay for Animal House. Look it up man, you've been sold the goods. And I understand how so read on...

My Dad went to Miami, class of '63. I went to Miami, class of '90. Dad actually knew PJ as well, even though I believe PJ is class of '67 or '68. Dad was a Pike at Miami, and he has been trying to sell me on that same BS story forever, PJ was a Pike too, that Miami is the basis for Animal House.

If you watch the making of Animal House or the Behind the Scenes or any of those shows, they are very clear that the movie was based on Dartmouth, not Miami U. Further, the only writing credits on IMDb, which is the ultimate movie website, go to Harold Ramis, Douglas Kenney and Chris Miller. Sorry no PJ.

But that wasn't enough, I went to an interview with PJ for The Onion, in which he states that he worked at the Lampoon during the time they wrote Animal House, but he never states he had any involvement in the screenplay of the movie. And that would be the place to tell such a story.

http://www.avclub.com/content/node/24198

Now this is what I believe, these guys all sat around and drank and told stories while working at National Lampoon. PJ worked there as well. There might be some truth to the bar scene being based on some bar of Hwy 27, but to say the movie is based on anything that happened at Miami U. is just silly. I let go of that one years ago.

But hey, go RedHawks, go Reds!

cinredsfan2000
11-28-2006, 07:10 PM
Early reports are it's the Yanks who won the latest bidding for Japanese talent.

Figures theyve been to quiet so far this offseason for the most part.:rolleyes: George must be chopping at the bit to make some real noise this offseason.

Reds Freak
11-28-2006, 07:30 PM
Has the guy even been here a year? The organization that he inherited was in pretty bad shape. Let's give him a chance to build the franchise. It's like these coaches that get fired after 3 good seasons and one off year.

wheels
11-28-2006, 07:39 PM
Good lord, what a horrible thread title.

Something with that many exclaimation points should have netted a much bigger revelation.

Falls City Beer
11-28-2006, 08:04 PM
Good lord, what a horrible thread title.

Something with that many exclaimation points should have netted a much bigger revelation.

Well, considering he meant the intransitive verb "lying" and not the transitive "laying," I'm still kind of waiting to see what Wayne plans on laying down: his shoes? his taco? his Wii controller?

LINEDRIVER
11-28-2006, 08:10 PM
Is this the Reds' 2007 slogan??

"They Got Carlos Lee, We Got Bubba Crosby"

Should I copyright that, print t-shirts and sell them at RedsFest this weekend??

Heath
11-28-2006, 08:16 PM
nm

C'mon Pedro - the board will thank you later :D

Ltlabner
11-28-2006, 08:29 PM
So back to the thread topic...

I don't see any truth to "Wayne is laying/lieing/ down" premise. I think people are so desperate that they are willing to sign on to one of these wild FA contracts now, but in 2 or 3 years we'll be having the same conversations about "anchor contracts" as we are now with Milton, Jr, and LaRue.

I don't want to see no more signings or trades before opening day. That would be a huge mistake. But getting all nutty because Kriv isn't out signing the type of dumb contracts that other teams are signing is a waste.

TheWalls
11-28-2006, 09:14 PM
Scott Williamson at 900,000. And we signed Stanton at 1,000,000 for 2 years.

I pray to the imaginary friend up in heaven that Reds fans would come to their senses and realize that its not about impatience..its about WK being incompetent.

Severely so.

I'm actually considering writing a letter to the Enquirer with the help of my good friend Terrane Moore (THE sports editor for the Atlanta-Journal) to publicly denounce and list every single folly of WK and this F.O.

we've written up a pretty humorous pice that details chronilogically along with comparing what other GM's have done during the same time span with the same amount of money.

you WK defenders would have to eat crow with a side of 3 day old skyline chilli.

Just to be clear, you prefer Williamson over Stanton? I want some of what you're drinking!

indy_dave00
11-28-2006, 09:25 PM
I echo sentiments of those who would have like to have seen Scott Williamson signed. In todays world 900,000 is nothing, yes he's a risk but at the cost he signed for I think he'd have been worth it.

Handofdeath
11-28-2006, 09:33 PM
So back to the thread topic...

I don't see any truth to "Wayne is laying/lieing/ down" premise. I think people are so desperate that they are willing to sign on to one of these wild FA contracts now, but in 2 or 3 years we'll be having the same conversations about "anchor contracts" as we are now with Milton, Jr, and LaRue.

I don't want to see no more signings or trades before opening day. That would be a huge mistake. But getting all nutty because Kriv isn't out signing the type of dumb contracts that other teams are signing is a waste.

I think I understand what Krivsky is doing and I'm liking it. In the case of the three position players signed they all have two things in common. One, they are all very good defensively. Two, they have all played for playoff teams. Crosby is the only one of the three without a W.S. ring. Look at how the Reds folded during the pennant race. They need people there who know what it takes to win. Veteran leadership is badly needed. The Reds certainly won't be going far with one of the worst teams in the N.L. defensively either. The Stanton signing I think is WK hedging his bets in case he can't find a suitable closer. Say what you will about what he did in Washington last year but when he was closing for the Giants he was pretty good. Also it does help improve the bullpen even if he doesn't close. And again playoff experience comes into play. Mike Stanton has pitched in SIX World Series. He has some of the best playoff numbers for a reliever you will ever see. I also think it bears remembering that the Reds are one month into the off-season. Also there is not one guy that the Reds didn't sign that would have improved their chances in the postseason next season. By waiting the Reds can still improve their team just as much, if not more, and by waiting the prices will be going down. Also wait for the December meetings. My best guess would be the Reds trading Freel for a starter sometime in the next month.

TRF
11-28-2006, 09:55 PM
The Stanton signing I think is WK hedging his bets in case he can't find a suitable closer. Say what you will about what he did in Washington last year but when he was closing for the Giants he was pretty good.

but last year he was pitching in a pitchers park.

and he wasn't very good.

AGon might be a defensive wizard, but he's a black hole of suck offensively.

So far all i see is Kriv signing as many AFFORDABLE guys as possible. There is no pattern. Agon/Phillips might be better defensively than Phillips/Freel. They will most certainly be worse offensively.

And he's again ignoring the Reds BIGGEST hole. A quality 3rd starter. Harang/Arroyo cannot get it done alone. shoring up the pen with 39 year old pitchers coming off a down year is not my idea of adding to the depth of the pen.

Unless by depth you mean the abyss.

BUTLER REDSFAN
11-28-2006, 10:10 PM
Is this the Reds' 2007 slogan??

"They Got Carlos Lee, We Got Bubba Crosby"

Should I copyright that, print t-shirts and sell them at RedsFest this weekend??

how about "they got the ring, we got the finger."

Handofdeath
11-28-2006, 10:16 PM
but last year he was pitching in a pitchers park.

and he wasn't very good.

AGon might be a defensive wizard, but he's a black hole of suck offensively.

So far all i see is Kriv signing as many AFFORDABLE guys as possible. There is no pattern. Agon/Phillips might be better defensively than Phillips/Freel. They will most certainly be worse offensively.

And he's again ignoring the Reds BIGGEST hole. A quality 3rd starter. Harang/Arroyo cannot get it done alone. shoring up the pen with 39 year old pitchers coming off a down year is not my idea of adding to the depth of the pen.

Unless by depth you mean the abyss.

Pitchers park? I wasn't aware Stanton just pitched home games.
He still had a 3.99 ERA last season and starter or reliever that ain't bad. That is certainly better than a lot of the relievers the Reds have sent out there in the recent past.
Now about Agon...Correct me if I'm wrong but after the Reds bat and make three outs then what? The Reds don't have one good glove guy outside of Phillips anywhere. They will not win by leading the NL in errors. Somebody has to play defense. Put him in the #8 spot and just let him play. Krivsky isn't ignoring the #3 pitching hole but if you sign someone now you'll pay him a lot more than you will a month or two from now. And you won't necessarily get a lesser pitcher by waiting. Most teams to this point have signed dumb-ass contracts, why should the Reds?

TRF
11-29-2006, 10:40 AM
3.99 from a 39 yr old pitcher? do you expect him to get better pitching half his games in GABP?

I don't. He might be serviceable, and he might go all Chris Hammond too. And just how many late 30's bullpen guys do the Reds need?

As for those three out the Reds will make, they will make them a heckuva lot quicker when AGon strides to the plate.

A lot of posters say it's about not making outs, which I think is correct when it comes to the individual player. But as a team concept, it's about delaying outs. You only get 27, and you will use all 27. AGon is as close to an automatic out as it gets. He's go some pop, but no ability to reach 1B. Sure, bat him 8th, and watch as pitchers get him to chase just about anything. a quick inning can rejuvenate a starter. AGon followed by the pitcher's spot is like the elixir of life.

Offense matters. I would take Phillips at SS and Freel at 2B over AGon/Phillips just for the offense. The defense wouldn't be as good, but it wouldn't be atrocious either.

Since Krivsky has already traded his most valuable commodities, FeLo & Kearns for essentially what he could have had within the system or after the season ended, it's unlikely we'll see that 3rd top tier starter.

Unless Homer Bailey is ready to make the jump from AA to full time starter at his young age. You can break AA into the majors as relievers, and rescue them when they get in trouble. Starters, not so much.

And without that 3rd starter... thpppt.

KoryMac5
11-29-2006, 11:36 AM
3.99 from a 39 yr old pitcher? do you expect him to get better pitching half his games in GABP?

I don't. He might be serviceable, and he might go all Chris Hammond too. And just how many late 30's bullpen guys do the Reds need?

As for those three out the Reds will make, they will make them a heckuva lot quicker when AGon strides to the plate.

A lot of posters say it's about not making outs, which I think is correct when it comes to the individual player. But as a team concept, it's about delaying outs. You only get 27, and you will use all 27. AGon is as close to an automatic out as it gets. He's go some pop, but no ability to reach 1B. Sure, bat him 8th, and watch as pitchers get him to chase just about anything. a quick inning can rejuvenate a starter. AGon followed by the pitcher's spot is like the elixir of life.

Offense matters. I would take Phillips at SS and Freel at 2B over AGon/Phillips just for the offense. The defense wouldn't be as good, but it wouldn't be atrocious either.

Since Krivsky has already traded his most valuable commodities, FeLo & Kearns for essentially what he could have had within the system or after the season ended, it's unlikely we'll see that 3rd top tier starter.

Unless Homer Bailey is ready to make the jump from AA to full time starter at his young age. You can break AA into the majors as relievers, and rescue them when they get in trouble. Starters, not so much.

And without that 3rd starter... thpppt.

I think that Alex will improve during his time at GABP. A hitters park can be devastating for pitchers and I agree Stanton probably will not have great numbers for us at home. But I feel Alex will do better than his career numbers show. We all know that a guy with some pop has a decent chance at GABP remember Phillips was not highly thought of when the Reds acquired him, and he has turned it around.

mound_patrol
11-29-2006, 11:42 AM
but last year he was pitching in a pitchers park.

and he wasn't very good.

AGon might be a defensive wizard, but he's a black hole of suck offensively.

So far all i see is Kriv signing as many AFFORDABLE guys as possible. There is no pattern. Agon/Phillips might be better defensively than Phillips/Freel. They will most certainly be worse offensively.

And he's again ignoring the Reds BIGGEST hole. A quality 3rd starter. Harang/Arroyo cannot get it done alone. shoring up the pen with 39 year old pitchers coming off a down year is not my idea of adding to the depth of the pen.

Unless by depth you mean the abyss.


Who says he isn't trying to get a quality 3rd starter. Just because he hasn't landed a pitcher doesn't mean he isn't putting in the effort.

Spring~Fields
11-29-2006, 01:00 PM
I don't want to see no more signings or trades before opening day.

I guess that I don't understand and I am asking for clarification.

I have it in my mind that no more signings or trades would leave the Reds as they have been, short on pitching, negative run differential etc. and losing more than they win.

redsfan4445
11-29-2006, 01:01 PM
how about "they got the ring, we got the finger."


LOL thats a good one!

redsmetz
11-29-2006, 01:21 PM
Unless Homer Bailey is ready to make the jump from AA to full time starter at his young age. You can break AA into the majors as relievers, and rescue them when they get in trouble. Starters, not so much.


I've said this many times, but I've heard Krivsky say on more than one occasion that he's not big on jumping players a level. Other than some roster house- cleaning in the post season, I don't think we've had any player jump a level. He has said of AAA that it exists for a reason, so that players can continue their developmental climb to the big leagues. I think the pathway to the Reds will not be a straight shot up I-75 unless they've come up I-71 too. Homer's next stop will be Louisville before he ever sees action here.

TRF
11-29-2006, 01:26 PM
I think that Alex will improve during his time at GABP. A hitters park can be devastating for pitchers and I agree Stanton probably will not have great numbers for us at home. But I feel Alex will do better than his career numbers show. We all know that a guy with some pop has a decent chance at GABP remember Phillips was not highly thought of when the Reds acquired him, and he has turned it around.

Phiilips was highly thought of around here. esp if it meant Tony Womack was going buh bye.

He could be playing on a girls softball field and still not find 1B. yes... he's that bad.

But if the Reds still had a decent offensive outfield, you could hide his bat. But Jr.s decline continues. Dunn is a 1B masquerading as a LF. Deno can't hit in the DR. Freel is fine in RF, but he has as much pop as an ex backstreet boy.

The offense is a mess, because there is no direction, no apparent plan in place. All I see is the dismantling of the offense in favor of suspect pitching, and yes Arroyo fell into that category. He had 2 seasons as a starter one good, ond not so good. He could have gone either way. Don't for one moment think this was some great insight by Krivsky. If it were why the hell didn't he use that insight when it came to Joe Freaking Mays?

No, he had some excess offense to sell. Kearns was too valuable for Arroyo. I mean what else are we to assume? That Theo preferred WMP to Kearns? So if we are all as smart as we sometimes think, then Theo must have asked for Kearns and Kriv countered with WMP.

And if that is the case then Kriv didn't value Arroyo as much as we think.

Getting what the reds did out of Arroyo was great, but not entirely expected. 30+ starts and a 4.00-4.50 era was probably more like what they expected.

Phillips is another low risk/high reward guy. It cost the reds almost nothing, and their 2B situation at the time was abysmal. His offense was a bonus, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility. He was a HIGHLY touted prospect.

What Krivsky is doing is aging this lineup fast. And he is rolling the dice with old relievers like Cormier and Stanton.

TRF
11-29-2006, 01:28 PM
I've said this many times, but I've heard Krivsky say on more than one occasion that he's not big on jumping players a level. Other than some roster house- cleaning in the post season, I don't think we've had any player jump a level. He has said of AAA that it exists for a reason, so that players can continue their developmental climb to the big leagues. I think the pathway to the Reds will not be a straight shot up I-75 unless they've come up I-71 too. Homer's next stop will be Louisville before he ever sees action here.

That's the point I was trying to make. Because with what the reds have now, Bailey would have to jump from AA to the bigs. After Harang/Arroyo, the rest is not too good. EZ is the best of the rest, and I haven't read a timetable on his recovery.

Team Clark
11-29-2006, 01:28 PM
TC,
Have you heard of even the slightest rumor that Wayne K might be pointing toward doing? even if you believe it to be fact or fiction?

Have I..yes. Can I post that info anymore? No. Sorry.

BRM
11-29-2006, 01:31 PM
Have I..yes. Can I post that info anymore? No. Sorry.

Will RedsZone be pleased with who he is pursuing? Probably not is my guess.

Spring~Fields
11-29-2006, 01:31 PM
Have I..yes. Can I post that info anymore? No. Sorry.

Thanks TC, just thought that I would ask.

Team Clark
11-29-2006, 01:33 PM
yes and yes he's been on quite a few Sports Century pieces and he is also a fellow Miami University alumn.

I once had dinner with he and PJ O'rourke (another Miami University alumn) and I came to find out that the movie Animal House (with belushi) was based on O'rourke's experiences while a student at Miami U and oxford (remember that "black" hagnout in the movie? Right off highway 27 leading into oxford!)

Speaking of Miami U. I had the opportunity to get a tour of their campus and new Baseball Facility. Absolutely incredible. I have been to the campus on a number of occasions. Always beautiful. I also had previosuly been to the new Baseball field right after it was finished. After having seen the completed project I am totally amazed. Now that all the landscape and facilites are complete I was in awe.

Spring~Fields
11-29-2006, 01:33 PM
Will RedsZone be pleased with who he is pursuing? Probably not is my guess.

Now see, if my skill levels would have been greater than Bubba or Moellers I would have worded it that way. ;)

RedsManRick
11-29-2006, 01:33 PM
Did we/you get in trouble with previous shared info TC? Time to assume an alias...

Team Clark
11-29-2006, 01:33 PM
Will RedsZone be pleased with who he is pursuing? Probably not is my guess.

No revelations. He's asking about the same guys everyone else is.

BRM
11-29-2006, 01:34 PM
No revelations. He's asking about the same guys everyone else is.

Good enough.

Team Clark
11-29-2006, 01:37 PM
Did we/you get in trouble with previous shared info TC? Time to assume an alias...

To some degree. Not so much "trouble" as avoiding any controversy. Boss and I spoke about it and are in complete agreement.

I was a little dismayed at some of the things that were/have been said about me as of late but it's the Holiday season and all is forgiven. This is a great place to share Baseball Info and we all need to keep it that way.

remdog
11-29-2006, 09:39 PM
Rem,What do you see, and what does your vision tell you that you might share with us?

Geez.....I'm watching this like everyone else....I'm biting my lip and keeping my fingers crossed hopeing that there is some grand plan in place that will reveal itself sometime between ST and Opening Day.

I'm neutral about Gonzalez. The Reds needed to improve the D at SS. But, he's gonna' be a big black hole in the lineup.

I'm already on record that I would have kept LaRue and traded Ross. If the grand plan included trading LaRue to save $2.5M and bring in Moeller to take a spot I'm even more faklempt.

Bubba, even Stanton are basically non-events to me.

The biggest thing for me is that Castellini said the he wants to 'win now' when he arrived on the scene. Now we are hearing that the goal is to 'break even'. (shrug) I always defended the Lindner groups' right to break even so I have to do the same for the Castellini group. That is their perogative as owners (IMO). However, I have to wonder which goal has priority. I worry that 'win now' is taking a back seat. My mind gravitates to the Jason Larue/Chad Moeller transition. It's nice to have a few extra pesos in the bank but does that extra money translate into making your team better on the field. You'll each have to answer that question for yourself but for me, so far, the answer is a dismal "NO!"

I'm going to keep biting my lip (for as long as I can) and see if there aren't some better days ahead. After all, we've got a little over four months to go till Opening Day. (Crosses all fingers, toes, legs, eyes....)

Rem

Handofdeath
11-29-2006, 11:42 PM
No, he had some excess offense to sell. Kearns was too valuable for Arroyo. I mean what else are we to assume? That Theo preferred WMP to Kearns? So if we are all as smart as we sometimes think, then Theo must have asked for Kearns and Kriv countered with WMP.

And if that is the case then Kriv didn't value Arroyo as much as we think.

Getting what the reds did out of Arroyo was great, but not entirely expected. 30+ starts and a 4.00-4.50 era was probably more like what they expected.

Phillips is another low risk/high reward guy. It cost the reds almost nothing, and their 2B situation at the time was abysmal. His offense was a bonus, but not entirely out of the realm of possibility. He was a HIGHLY touted prospect.

What Krivsky is doing is aging this lineup fast. And he is rolling the dice with old relievers like Cormier and Stanton.

I think Theo wanted WMP all along. If he would have Manny out there playing OF, why not WMP? Pena's potential in that park offensively far outweighs Kearns. And Theo knows that eventually Manny's going to have to get traded and Nixon was in his contract's last year as well. Look at Pena's numbers this year. His OPS numbers aren't too much different than Dunn's, albeit in less games. If WMP fufills his potential in Boston, he could hit 50 homers with the Green Monster. Krivsky needed pitching and in his mind the potential far outweighed the risk. I think Krivsky got the better of the deal. I liked the trade then and I really like it now.

Now about the aging lineup. If the pitcher is still effective it does not matter if he's 85. Relief pitchers can and do pitch into their 40's. Jesse Orosco and John Franco spring to mind. Look at how Roberto Hernandez pitched last year at 41. Krivsky is taking a slight risk but if Stanton can solidify the relief staff and perhaps pick up a save or two, then it's worth the risk. Not to mention, once more, that Stanton brings the one thing that the Reds may need more than anything. Veteran leadership and a guy who knows what it takes to get to the playoffs and then do well in the playoffs. Three championship rings and a lifetime 2.10 ERA in the postseason, you have to respect that.

Mario-Rijo
11-30-2006, 12:22 AM
To some degree. Not so much "trouble" as avoiding any controversy. Boss and I spoke about it and are in complete agreement.

I was a little dismayed at some of the things that were/have been said about me as of late but it's the Holiday season and all is forgiven. This is a great place to share Baseball Info and we all need to keep it that way.


I know what you mean about things being said about you, but man does that just suck I always look forward to your insight and now you have been shackled by the man! I just knew it would come to this though, some people are just too juvenille to be wrong sometimes. :bang:

Eric_Davis
11-30-2006, 04:30 PM
I'm sorry, but Wayne Krivsky bashers just show their ignorance.

Highlifeman21
11-30-2006, 04:34 PM
Looks like WK is just sittng around and watching all the good bullpen arms getting signed.Bradford,Baez,Walker, and all the good arms are gone.So whats WK going to do to feel the closer role.Looks like another year of closer by commitee.Oh wait we signed a 40 year old Stanton,its took care of right.:bang:

What good is a closer if we can't score runs? Right now, this lineup would be lucky to score 750+ for the year, especially with Narron at the helm.

Closer is the least of our concerns. Get another big bat for either 1B or RF, then get another starter that's better than what we trot out there every 5th day in the 3rd slot. Then maybe, just maybe, we can think about a closer.

Priorities.

TRF
12-01-2006, 11:08 AM
I'm sorry, but Wayne Krivsky bashers just show their ignorance.

This gets my vote as all encompassing post of the year.

Oh we should never bash a GM that signs Joe Freaking Mays (BTW, I'm copywriting this phrase, hands off Puffy!)

And Majewski and Franklin were such boons to the pen. Nope. Kriv warranted no bashing there. Yan was a boon too. Oh, and Sunny Kim. outstanding.


Now about the aging lineup. If the pitcher is still effective it does not matter if he's 85. Relief pitchers can and do pitch into their 40's. Jesse Orosco and John Franco spring to mind. Look at how Roberto Hernandez pitched last year at 41. Krivsky is taking a slight risk but if Stanton can solidify the relief staff and perhaps pick up a save or two, then it's worth the risk. Not to mention, once more, that Stanton brings the one thing that the Reds may need more than anything. Veteran leadership and a guy who knows what it takes to get to the playoffs and then do well in the playoffs.

Then you should have been all for signing Chris Hammond. He had just come off a successful year, and he was old. He had postseason experience, he was coming off 4 straight seasons of sub 4.00 era, 3 of them below 3.00, and 1 under 1.00. Why there was no reason to believe that at 40 years old his era might balloon to 6.91. Because all 40 year olds pitch effectively.

And honestly, what exactly does "veteran leadership" mean? From all accounts, Greg Vaughn had it, but Griffey doesn't. Was vaughn more veterany than Griff? Why was Rickey Henderson never considered a veteran leadership guy? Dude played with Honus Wagner. He's real old. Why did Derek Jeter have it in his 1st season? Why doesn't ARod have it? David Ortiz does, but Manny doesn't.

See how fine a line it is? You can't proclaim veteran leadership just because he's old. I'll say this, Bill Bray is at least the kind of pitcher Krivsky should be looking at. He just paid waaaay too much for him. Majewski is the kind of pitcher you aquire for a ptbnl. or cash considerations. not for an above average offensive SS 1 year removed from an all-star season.