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Redus
11-29-2006, 02:32 AM
Well with Baez gone and Bradford,Speir,Williamson, no longer options (if they ever were) now comes this statement from Weathers Agent:

"Horwits also said the Reds hadn't expressed any interest in a couple of his other free agent relievers, Keith Foulke and Octavio Dotel."

Wow who are we gonna get? Is Ted Power available? Can Hume do it? Whats Kent Tekulve up to?

I dont get it.:bang:

Jpup
11-29-2006, 03:00 AM
It's only November. Trades can be made and there is no reason to go and buy a closer, when there really isn't a good option out there. Closers do zero amount of good if you can't get him the ball.

Focus on the rotation.

BEETTLEBUG
11-29-2006, 04:04 AM
This isn't about closer but about rotation. Would Griffey wave no trade clause to Braves and could we get Tim Hudson? His contract is OK in 07 but goes to 13M in 08-09 .That is common money though for ACE, he is Right!

redsmetz
11-29-2006, 04:32 AM
Well with Baez gone and Bradford,Speir,Williamson, no longer options (if they ever were) now comes this statement from Weathers Agent:

"Horwits also said the Reds hadn't expressed any interest in a couple of his other free agent relievers, Keith Foulke and Octavio Dotel."

And yet, aren't there legitimate concerns about the health of his clients? I know there is with Foulke, but if my fantasy team memories are correct, Dotel was on the DL fairly regularly in recent years. I believe the phrase used around here is "an injury waiting to happen".

Ltlabner
11-29-2006, 07:18 AM
It's only November. Trades can be made and there is no reason to go and buy a closer, when there really isn't a good option out there. Closers do zero amount of good if you can't get him the ball.

Focus on the rotation.

Bingo. Who's gonna close? Who cares.

That's a bit over the top but I agree that if you can't get the closer the ball then forget it. Don't get me wrong, if a chance to reasonably trade for one comes up, they should take it. Just having Everyday Eddie made the bullpen jell for those few glorrious weeks. But as far as spending big FA dollars on a closer? Totally skips over the real needs of the team, starting pitching and another big bat.

Will M
11-29-2006, 07:22 AM
I think Bray will get a chance to close. Stanton takes Bray's place as the top lefty set up man.

RedLegSuperStar
11-29-2006, 07:58 AM
My money is on Salmon or Shafer

Strikes Out Looking
11-29-2006, 08:14 AM
Jeff Brantley or Jeff Shaw.

Redus
11-29-2006, 08:28 AM
I now have a feeling also it will be Bray. I thought a Foulke or Dotel would come cheaper than usual based on the injuries and getting a chance to close for someone.

Johnny Footstool
11-29-2006, 09:51 AM
Bingo. Who's gonna close? Who cares.

That's a bit over the top but I agree that if you can't get the closer the ball then forget it. Don't get me wrong, if a chance to reasonably trade for one comes up, they should take it. Just having Everyday Eddie made the bullpen jell for those few glorrious weeks. But as far as spending big FA dollars on a closer? Totally skips over the real needs of the team, starting pitching and another big bat.

Acquiring a closer actually improves the whole pitching staff. It allows your second and third best relievers to pitch the 7th and 8th, which means your starter knows he only has to go 6 strong innings instead of 7.

RANDY IN INDY
11-29-2006, 09:56 AM
Acquiring a closer actually improves the whole pitching staff. It allows your second and third best relievers to pitch the 7th and 8th, which means your starter knows he only has to go 6 strong innings instead of 7.

True enough, but the Reds have too many guys who have a problem going 6 strong innings.

flyer85
11-29-2006, 10:06 AM
with the current state of the team it isn't going to matter.

RedsManRick
11-29-2006, 10:07 AM
Acquiring a closer actually improves the whole pitching staff. It allows your second and third best relievers to pitch the 7th and 8th, which means your starter knows he only has to go 6 strong innings instead of 7.

It only improves your staff if you closer is better than the guys he's pushing back. Otherwise, it's just giving high leverage innings to a mediocre pitcher. Personally, I'd build a bullpen around a high leverage right & lefty who have the ability to strike guys out and keep the ball in the yard and a veteran "closer" who can handle the supposed pressure of being "the guy" while his actual job is getting 3 outs before he allows 2 runs.

I'm much more worried about the tie game, 2 on, 1 out situation in the 7th than I am about about the up by 1, bases empty, 0 outs in the 9th. Who's out there that's going to be any better than who we already have?

Always Red
11-29-2006, 10:08 AM
I think Lohse would be a good closer; he's got great stuff, and seems to have kind of a nasty attitude. But he'd have to embrace the job- he's got his heart set on being a SP, which frankly, he's very erratic at, as we've seen.

Of course, he may be just as erratic as a closer, but it's an intriguing thought, to me. I'd give it a shot, especially if the Reds add another SP.

Ltlabner
11-29-2006, 10:09 AM
Acquiring a closer actually improves the whole pitching staff. It allows your second and third best relievers to pitch the 7th and 8th, which means your starter knows he only has to go 6 strong innings instead of 7.

I think they should acquire/groom a closer for the reasons you mentioned. As I said in my previous post, however, I think there are more pressing needs for our limited resources. Namley, another staring pitcher and a RH bat.

Once those are nailed down, and there is a trade opportunity or FA available, by all means a closer would be great.

Even better would be if Bray could step up and fill the role.

Johnny Footstool
11-29-2006, 10:11 AM
True enough, but the Reds have too many guys who have a problem going 6 strong innings.

Conversely, you've got Bronson Arroyo pitching his heart out for 7 innings and then watching the bullpen blow the lead. It happened a lot last season.

I agree that the rotation is a pressing need, but there is a big need for power arms in the bullpen, too.

Chip R
11-29-2006, 11:20 AM
I understand Danny Graves is looking for work. ;)

Jpup
11-29-2006, 11:27 AM
Why not Todd Coffey? Has that ship sailed for good?

Johnny Footstool
11-29-2006, 11:32 AM
If it were up to me, I'd try to get Dotel and/or Borowski.

Dotel has the live arm, and Borowski has proven he can handle the pressure and still be effective.

redsfanmia
11-29-2006, 11:39 AM
Why not Todd Coffey? Has that ship sailed for good?

I dont think he has the attitude for it. Does it really matter who the closer is for a 65 win team?

Redsland
11-29-2006, 11:50 AM
Who's going to close?

Heck, who's going to start Game 3?

deltachi8
11-29-2006, 12:39 PM
Who's going to close?

Heck, who's going to start Game 3?

exactly my thoughts. Without two quality starters added, it matters not who is the closer.

Johnny Footstool
11-29-2006, 02:57 PM
exactly my thoughts. Without two quality starters added, it matters not who is the closer.

I totally disagree.

The Reds need lock-down bullpen help as badly as they need a third starter. Unless they get both, 2007 will be a long season.

redsfanmia
11-29-2006, 03:08 PM
I totally disagree.

The Reds need lock-down bullpen help as badly as they need a third starter. Unless they get both, 2007 will be a long season.

I think we are in for a long season anyway.

Johnny Footstool
11-29-2006, 03:17 PM
I think we are in for a long season anyway.

The sad thing is, the front office only needs to spend some cash to make things interesting.

cincy09
11-29-2006, 03:18 PM
I think we are in for a long season anyway.

sure looks that way:thumbdown

redsfanmia
11-29-2006, 03:22 PM
The sad thing is, the front office only needs to spend some cash to make things interesting.

I am not sure throwing cash out would be sufficient. I dont want them overpaying for someone then having buyers remorse and wanting to deal that player next year. The Reds are more than one or two players away from really competing. I really think a firesale would be the best way to go.

Rojo
11-29-2006, 04:11 PM
The Reds need lock-down bullpen help as badly as they need a third starter. Unless they get both, 2007 will be a long season.

Absolutely. I'd even go so far as to say more. Your bullpen's going to get 400plus innings, your third starter about 225.

VR
11-29-2006, 04:58 PM
Without additions, Bray/Coffey make the most sense. T

hey both have the stuff...just need to fine tune control. Todd couldn't do much as a closer once he got the pitcher's count, because his misses missed badly, both outside and inside the zone. Hopefully another year of maturity and some experience to draw from will help him conquer that flaw.

Degenerate39
11-29-2006, 05:03 PM
My guess would be Bray but IMO we need to work on the rotation before we can even talk about the bullpin.

RedLegSuperStar
11-29-2006, 06:44 PM
On the closing front for those wanting Joe Borowski..


According to ESPN.com, Joe Borowski flunked a physical that would have given him a multiyear deal with the Phillies.

Apparently, there was enough wear and tear on his shoulder that the Phillies didn't want to commit long-term. Borowski's agents, Ron Shapiro and Michael Maas, continue to field one-year offers from several clubs, and it seems that the Phillies still could consider him on a shorter deal.

jmac
11-29-2006, 07:48 PM
Does it really matter who the closer is for a 65 win team?

no it doesnt. But last year, it would have mattered for a 83 win team.
oh wait....we fell 3 short of 83 .
Actually i would put a good #3 slightly above closer on the priority depth chart.

redsfanmia
11-29-2006, 08:08 PM
no it doesnt. But last year, it would have mattered for a 83 win team.
oh wait....we fell 3 short of 83 .
Actually i would put a good #3 slightly above closer on the priority depth chart.

I agree, If we had a bonafide closer the Reds probably wins the division. But that was last year and next year I dont see the Reds competing for a playoff spot so really it doesnt matter who closes. As the roster stands right now a closer is not that important, its going to be the difference between 72 and 77 wins.

Always Red
11-29-2006, 08:12 PM
According to ESPN.com, Joe Borowski flunked a physical that would have given him a multiyear deal with the Phillies.

Apparently, there was enough wear and tear on his shoulder that the Phillies didn't want to commit long-term. Borowski's agents, Ron Shapiro and Michael Maas, continue to field one-year offers from several clubs, and it seems that the Phillies still could consider him on a shorter deal.

You mean they do MRI's in Philly before obtaining new pitchers??

jmac
11-29-2006, 08:38 PM
I agree, If we had a bonafide closer the Reds probably wins the division. But that was last year and next year I dont see the Reds competing for a playoff spot so really it doesnt matter who closes. As the roster stands right now a closer is not that important, its going to be the difference between 72 and 77 wins.

however last year ,most all of us felt like you as far as reds competing for a playoff spot.we didnt think they would and they did......so dont give up hope for 2007 !:thumbup:

Rojo
11-29-2006, 08:42 PM
I'll run this up the flagpole again. The Giants aren't keen on Armando Benitez. In fact he gets booed every time he takes the ball. He's got one more year left on a contract at about $8m (I think). Would they take Milton? If they don't would they let us have him for a song?

Armando's only 33 and two years removed from some great seasons.

Falls City Beer
11-29-2006, 08:46 PM
I'll run this up the flagpole again. The Giants aren't keen on Armando Benitez. In fact he gets booed every time he takes the ball. He's got one more year left on a contract at about $8m (I think). Would they take Milton? If they don't would they let us have him for a song?

Armando's only 33 and two years removed from some great seasons.

If you can't pitch in PacBell (or whatever corporate golem has renamed that place) you can't pitch anywhere.

Rojo
11-29-2006, 08:56 PM
If you can't pitch in PacBell (or whatever corporate golem has renamed that place) you can't pitch anywhere.

He has pitched in some homer-suppressing fields (Shea, Florida, SF) but, for one year, I'd roll the dice.

Falls City Beer
11-29-2006, 08:58 PM
He has pitched in some homer-suppressing fields (Shea, Florida, SF) but, for one year, I'd roll the dice.

$8 million for a guy who throws 4 innings a week. No thanks.

Got enough of that with Eric Milton.

Tom Servo
11-29-2006, 09:02 PM
Armando looks to be done. Whenever I saw him pitch he couldn't throw strikes or miss bats, a pretty lethal combination for a closer.

Handofdeath
11-29-2006, 10:50 PM
I would also like to mention that Dick Pole might be able to do wonders with this staff. Give him a chance.

Hondo
11-30-2006, 02:09 AM
The 2007 Reds Closer will be...

"The player to be named later" from the Royals in the LaRue deal.

:)

Redus
11-30-2006, 07:25 AM
The 2007 Reds Closer will be...

"The player to be named later" from the Royals in the LaRue deal.

:)

I hope its Dan Quisenberry then!:beerme:

Redsland
11-30-2006, 02:32 PM
I would also like to mention that Dick Pole might be able to do wonders with this staff.
:ughmamoru

Highlifeman21
11-30-2006, 02:36 PM
It's only November. Trades can be made and there is no reason to go and buy a closer, when there really isn't a good option out there. Closers do zero amount of good if you can't get him the ball.

Focus on the rotation.


If we don't score runs, a closer and another starter won't matter. Add another big bat, most noteably either 1B or RF and go from there. This team needs to get back to scoring 800+ runs a year to have any chance. If we're gonna focus on pitching, we need to get some arm that will make our staff a sub 650 runs for the year ballclub, and that won't happen.