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RedLegSuperStar
11-30-2006, 11:35 AM
I was listening to MLB on XM radio on my drive to work and they were talking about Igawa and the rest of the Yankess pitching staff. From the looks of it here is there rotation:

Johnson
Mussina
Wang
Igawa
Pavano/Sanchez

They've also had talks with Clemens, Pettitte, Lilly, Meche, & Schmidt.. purhaps Zito as well.

What if we could work a deal with them which would send:

Adam Dunn, Javy Valentin/David Ross, and Matt Belisle to the Yankees

&

Melky Cabrera, Carl Pavano (+ Cash), Kyle Farnsworth, and Sean Henn

Fills OF hole with Cabrera who has an above average glove/arm and has speed, with some pop in his bat. We get Farnsworth who could be placed in the closer roll. Pavano, who is often injured.. could be a decent #4 or #5 guy behind Milton and/or Lohse. Henn would either start in the pen or AAA but could fill out the rotation in 2008.

Adam Dunn give the Yankees another power bat to go along with every other All-Star on their team. It also gives them a servicable back-up catcher which they lack at the moment. Matt Belisle could be the wild card in the deal because he has starter stuff and is an above relief arm out of the pen. Someone Torre could rely on due to his consistance in 2006. Alsowould give the Yankess the ability to still hunt for another starter.

Johnny Footstool
11-30-2006, 11:38 AM
I think the Reds would be demolished by that deal, especially if it involves Ross.

Dunn alone for that package would be a poor deal.

flyer85
11-30-2006, 11:40 AM
Send Hughes and they can keep Pavano, Farnsworth and Henn.

Red Leader
11-30-2006, 11:42 AM
Send Hughes and they can keep Pavano, Farnsworth and Henn.

I agree. If they want Dunn, they have to give up Hughes along with another prospect. If you including Valentin/Ross and Belisle, then they have to give up Melky as well (and can drop that 2nd prospect).

So Dunn = Hughes and prospect

Dunn + Valentin/Ross + Belisle = Hughes and Melky and possibly a PTBNL.

In other words, not something I see the Yankees doing anytime soon....

westofyou
11-30-2006, 11:42 AM
Someone pour some salt on that proposal to make sure nothing ever grows out of it again.

RedLegSuperStar
11-30-2006, 11:55 AM
I guess my thinking was to free up some extra money to get a Trot Nixon/Craig Wilson type player and another thing was that Dunns option may not be picked up at seasons end and we may end up not getting any return for him.

Wheelhouse
11-30-2006, 12:07 PM
Bad deal for the Reds I think. Both Farnsworth and Pavano disappointed last year, Cabrera has no stick, and Henn is not burning up the Yankees propaganda machine which means he's probably average to below average as a prospect. The Reds would be giving up two starting position players, and a young SP who's shown some real flashes of ML ability. Pass.

RedsManRick
11-30-2006, 12:10 PM
Quality for quantity is rarely a good deal.

NJReds
11-30-2006, 12:26 PM
Bad deal for the Reds I think.

I agree.



Both Farnsworth and Pavano disappointed last year,

Totally agree. And both are injury concerns. Pavano, because he can't get out of his own way and Farnsworth has 'back issues' which is a big red flag.



Cabrera has no stick,

Disagree. He's shown good eye at the plate. He's 22-yrs. old and his power should continue to develop. While he won't smack 30-40 HR's, he'll be able to pile on the doubles. The kid looks like a legit starting OF to me.

Red Leader
11-30-2006, 12:36 PM
I
Disagree. He's shown good eye at the plate. He's 22-yrs. old and his power should continue to develop. While he won't smack 30-40 HR's, he'll be able to pile on the doubles. The kid looks like a legit starting OF to me.

I agree with you, NJReds. I think Cabrera is capable of some 30+ HR years in his peak years, but as he is now, he gets on base at a good clip and has developing power. He could be a doubles machine next year.

IslandRed
11-30-2006, 12:45 PM
and another thing was that Dunns option may not be picked up at seasons end and we may end up not getting any return for him.

I'd say there's basically a zero percent chance of the option simply not being picked up, absent extreme circumstances (career-threatening injury, that sort of thing). We'd either trade him at the deadline if we decided he wasn't worth $13.5 million next year, or we'd pick up his option next winter and then trade him similar to what the Yankees just did with Sheffield.

TeamSelig
11-30-2006, 01:52 PM
Dunn for Melky and Philip Hughes

Wow. Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, Hughes. They could have me as a 5th starter and still win a ton of games.

RedEye
11-30-2006, 01:57 PM
I'm not sure the Yanks would give up Hughes for anyone. He's the only pitching prospect sometimes ranked ahead of Bailey. They need new starting pitching since Johnson and Mussina are so old now, and they really don't have any glaring needs that they can't fill through FA.

RedEye
11-30-2006, 01:58 PM
Frankly, I don't think trading Dunn now makes much sense. His value is at its lowest point in five years. We're much better off waiting until midseason and hoping he's in the middle of one of his HR tears around the deadline. That's when Dunn could land us a boatload of prospects.

Red Leader
11-30-2006, 02:03 PM
Frankly, I don't think trading Dunn now makes much sense. His value is at its lowest point in five years. We're much better off waiting until midseason and hoping he's in the middle of one of his HR tears around the deadline. That's when Dunn could land us a boatload of prospects.

I agree with that, and think that's what Wayne and Bob will do.

dougdirt
11-30-2006, 02:38 PM
Adam Dunn would not net Philip Hughes by himself, not by a long shot. Hughes is basically untouchable right now as far as the Yankees are concerned. They usually are willing to deal prospects without flinching, but Hughes is a different breed. He and Bailey are 1.a and 1.b in the prospect books on pitching, then there is quite a fall off in pitching prospects before you get to guys like Gallardo, Pelfrey, Miller and Miller......
Would any of you trade Homer Bailey for Adam Dunn after his 2006 season? I know I sure wouldnt.

NJReds
11-30-2006, 02:38 PM
More news from Yankee-land...Craig Wilson a possibility.


The New York Daily News reports that Brian Cashman has spoken to the agent for Craig Wilson, as Wilson remains an option to play first base for the Yankees. Talks will continue during the winter meetings. Beyond that, Cashman can go for Phil Nevin or Shea Hillenbrand via free agency. He could also make a trade or get creative by chasing someone like Ray Durham, as Buster Olney suggests. The New York Times suggests Eduardo Perez as a lesser option that is being considered.

westofyou
11-30-2006, 02:39 PM
Would any of you trade Homer Bailey for Adam Dunn after his 2006 season? I know I sure wouldnt

TINSAPP

dougdirt
11-30-2006, 02:45 PM
Ive read that a million times WOY. Thats fine. I disagree completely. There is plenty of evidence that goes both ways as to whether there is a true thing as a pitching prospect, but I have seen enough pitching prospects come along to tell me there they do exist.
I also know that there is no way I would be trading either of the two guys who have clearly seperated themselves from all others in the minors for Adam Dunn. I take it by your response that you would?

Red Leader
11-30-2006, 02:48 PM
Wasn't Brandon Claussen a much hyped Yankees pitching prospect at one time? What if Hughes hits the same road blocks Claussen has? If you do Dunn for Hughes straight up, your franchise is in serious trouble if he does struggle or doesn't completely live up to the hype. Pitchers, unlike position players, can get injured at any time and destroy their careers, or at best, keep them out of the game for possibly 2 years while they recover.

dougdirt
11-30-2006, 02:59 PM
Claussen waas never a top 25 prospect, and by the time he got around to making the majors already had TJ surgery and lost 5 mph on his fastball. Sure, injuries happen and they hurt pitchers quite a bit more, that applies to any and all pitchers. Lets say Hughes doesnt live up to his #1 billing, but becomes a nice #3 guy, sub 4 ERA, 7.5 k/9 and a WHIP of about 1.25. That is something I would be willing to trade Adam Dunn for, especially at this point. But if Hughes goes on and turns into a #1 or #2, then you made out like a bandit for Adam Dunn.
Now lets toss it out the window and say Hughes blows his elbow up, and never recovers completely and does you know good. Well, that gives you 8 million to play with this year, and you could get a replacement for him....and then some probably. Adam Dunn, if performed like his 2006 levels, is not so difficult to replace. His defense was the worst in baseball at his position, and cost the Reds somewhere between 12-23 runs this season (depending on which defensive stat you really want to look at), but his offense was very lackluckster for him. If you can actually save 3 runs over average LF then you are already needing the new guy to produce at the least, 15 fewer runs than Adam Dunn....
Now dont take this as I want to give Adam Dunn away, but I think he is easier to replace than some are willing to admit on here.

vaticanplum
11-30-2006, 06:31 PM
Adam Dunn give the Yankees another power bat to go along with every other All-Star on their team.

I'm sorry, but I don't see any logic in that. If there's one thing the Yankees don't need, it's another big bat, particularly one that plays notoriously bad defense. The Yankees' outfield is full and I suspect, given the rest of their lineup and the fact that they very much want to use Giambi as a DH, that they'll be looking for a strong defensive player at first.

And as others have noted, Hughes is not going anywhere. He's almost as untouchable as Derek Jeter at this point in time. The Yankees have a fair amount of money. They don't need to trade prospects if they don't want to.

TeamSelig
11-30-2006, 06:34 PM
I don't know about 'untouchable'

If Hughes could land them a top notch starting pitcher then I think they do it. Yanks don't usually care much about the future

vaticanplum
11-30-2006, 06:38 PM
I don't know about 'untouchable'

If Hughes could land them a top notch starting pitcher then I think they do it. Yanks don't usually care much about the future

I genuinely believe that Cashman and Steinbrenner's son-in-law (who's due to take over the team after Big George croaks) are trying to use Hughes to change this.

I actually believe that Cashman has wanted to rely more on the farm system for a long time, but Hughes is such a stud and George is so old that it's been his best try so far. The Yankees have had less luck with their free agent pitchers than they've wanted to; the best pitcher who's turned up the last few years was Wang, out of the farm system (well, and Taiwan). So I think they're going to stick to their guns on Hughes.

Mostly speculation on my part, but not without foundation. The general consensus does seem to be that Hughes will make his major league debut as a Yankee.

jmcclain19
11-30-2006, 08:21 PM
I for one think that the Yanks would be willing to give Carl Pavano away for a bucket of baseballs at this point.

As long as they were willing to pick up most if not all of his salary, if they were willing to take some of the Reds minor league chaff (Phil Dumatrait or Tyler Pelland immediately come to mind) for him, I think I'd swing that deal.

Considering the exorbitant cost of mediocre pitching this offseason, I see him in that same category as Vincente Padilla & Ted Lilly. Not world beaters, but might churn you out a solid season from time to time. And all the crap he's absorbed in NY the last two years, he might be prime for a resurgeance.

I'd do my scouting due dilligance, but I'd at least talk to the Yankees about it. Never know what they'd be willing to go for.

The Reds current options at No. 5 starter certainly don't look any better.

wally post
11-30-2006, 08:27 PM
I for one think that the Yanks would be willing to give Carl Pavano away for a bucket of baseballs at this point.

As long as they were willing to pick up most if not all of his salary, if they were willing to take some of the Reds minor league chaff (Phil Dumatrait or Tyler Pelland immediately come to mind) for him, I think I'd swing that deal.

Considering the exorbitant cost of mediocre pitching this offseason, I see him in that same category as Vincente Padilla & Ted Lilly. Not world beaters, but might churn you out a solid season from time to time. And all the crap he's absorbed in NY the last two years, he might be prime for a resurgeance.

I'd do my scouting due dilligance, but I'd at least talk to the Yankees about it. Never know what they'd be willing to go for.

The Reds current options at No. 5 starter certainly don't look any better.

Agreed. And this is the ONLY kind of deal we should try with the yankees, or else they will rape us (again). Pavano will NEVER start for the yankees. He blew it in NY and the other players hate him as they suspect his (fake) injuries and such. The Reds have to stay away from the yankees otherwise (IMO)

NJReds
12-01-2006, 10:09 AM
I for one think that the Yanks would be willing to give Carl Pavano away for a bucket of baseballs at this point.


Cashman addressed this on ESPN radio in NY last night. He said a few teams have asked him about Pavano with the same basic offer -- the Yankees pick up a generous portion of the salary and in return will give you a middle-of-the-road-prospect. It won't happen. He expects Pavano to return and live up to the back end of his contract, because he obviously has been a bust thus far.

So while he might deal Pavano, he won't do it for nothing.

wally post
12-01-2006, 10:18 AM
If we are constantly taking chances with almost 40 year old pitchers and utility players, why not give a little bit up to take a chance on fools gold like Pavano. The fools' gold of Pavano looks better than some of the fools' tin we've been signing!