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View Full Version : Reds interested in Matt Holliday?



Tom Servo
11-30-2006, 02:03 PM
DISCLAIMER: This is merely some hot stove talk, and should not be taken as any sort of gospel. There's no real good reason to believe what you will read, it's just fun. My point? Don't get your hopes up.


I was reading Marc's blog and came across some trade talk in a post about Weathers. A poster by the name of Mr. Redlegs threw something interesting out there.


An NL assistant GM told me Krivsky is eying a young, up-and-coming, right-handed power hitter who can play the corner slots.

Look at the numbers.

Matt Holiday.


He goes on to note a deal with the Rockies for Holliday could potentially involve Freel, Votto, and Belisle.

Check it out yourself: http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2006/11/reds-still-in-weathers-mix.asp#comments
(Note: I got a PM saying the link may cause problems for some, so you may want to go directly to Marc's blog instead of using the above link.)

Thoughts?

pedro
11-30-2006, 02:07 PM
He had a much better year than I'd thought but his hime/road splits are pretty extreme.



SPLIT AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Home 295 70 110 24 2 22 78 26 11 44 5 2 .373 .440 .692 1.132
Away 307 49 86 21 3 12 36 21 4 66 5 3 .280 .333 .485 .819


that's a lot to give up for a guy who may be just a product of Coors Field.

M2
11-30-2006, 02:09 PM
It could be any number of of guys. Elijah Dukes could be that guy too. So could Matt Kemp or Matt Murton or Brent Cleven.

Johnny Footstool
11-30-2006, 02:13 PM
I don't know why the Rockies would do that, but I think it's a good trade for the Reds. Freel is a free agent after 2007 and Belisle's ceiling is middle relief. Votto is pretty valuable as a prospect, but 1B bats are easier to find than cheap outfielders who can post an OPS around .850.

Holliday would probably be a slight upgrade over Kearns.

Team Clark
11-30-2006, 02:14 PM
It could be any number of of guys. Elijah Dukes could be that guy too. So could Matt Kemp or Matt Murton or Brent Cleven.

That's what I was thinking. I'm also a Brad Hawpe fan. Love his swing. He still has room for improvement but I like him.

Red Leader
11-30-2006, 02:20 PM
That's what I was thinking. I'm also a Brad Hawpe fan. Love his swing. He still has room for improvement but I like him.

He has a very underrated arm in RF as well. Good defender.

I like both Holliday and Hawpe. If I had my choice, I'd have to take Holliday, though. I think he's going to be a special player in the next few years. What many expected Kearns to be eventually. Makes sense for the Reds to go after a RH power hitting OF.

If they could get Holliday and hope the Rocks throw in a prospect as well for Votto, Freel and Belisle (or Ross), I'd be all for it.

Highlifeman21
11-30-2006, 02:20 PM
He had a much better year than I'd thought but his hime/road splits are pretty extreme.



SPLIT AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Home 295 70 110 24 2 22 78 26 11 44 5 2 .373 .440 .692 1.132
Away 307 49 86 21 3 12 36 21 4 66 5 3 .280 .333 .485 .819


that's a lot to give up for a guy who may be just a product of Coors Field.

Not sure about the rest of you, but I'd take .819 on the road. The problem is I have a feeling we'd get him and something for a Dunn offer, and I will continue to bang the "or we could just keep Dunn" drum.

We need to add a bat to this lineup, not subtract Adam Dunn and then cry and pick up the pieces.

Johnny Footstool
11-30-2006, 02:21 PM
That's what I was thinking. I'm also a Brad Hawpe fan. Love his swing. He still has room for improvement but I like him.

Hawpe's a lefty, though.

RedsManRick
11-30-2006, 02:24 PM
Austin Kearns?

Red Leader
11-30-2006, 02:25 PM
Holliday contract info

Matthew Thomas Holliday: will earn 316K in 2005 as part of a 5-year major league contract signed in 2001- + the 5-year deal includes a Team Option for 2006 worth 500K and a Team Option for 2007 worth 700K- + if eligible for arbitration following either 2006 or 2007, then he may opt of the deal and elect for salary abritration- + 2006 option worth 500K was EXERCISED ON 10/5/05- + bonuses has earned: $50K for silver slugger
Agent: Scott Boras (fired Jot Hartley after 2005 season) Service Time: 2

M2
11-30-2006, 02:28 PM
Secondary question here: Would this mean the Reds are considering keeping Jr. in CF? Or is one of Dunn and Jr. a goner?

Rojo
11-30-2006, 02:29 PM
He had a much better year than I'd thought but his hime/road splits are pretty extreme.



SPLIT AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Home 295 70 110 24 2 22 78 26 11 44 5 2 .373 .440 .692 1.132
Away 307 49 86 21 3 12 36 21 4 66 5 3 .280 .333 .485 .819


that's a lot to give up for a guy who may be just a product of Coors Field.

I can't back this up, so maybe I'm all wet, but I think part of the "Coors Effect" is to dampen hitters on the road. They get used to flat breaking pitches and fly balls that carry and it makes them crummy hitters closer to earth. I'd guess that he'd hit somewhere between his home and road numbers.

Team Clark
11-30-2006, 02:31 PM
He has a very underrated arm in RF as well. Good defender.

I like both Holliday and Hawpe. If I had my choice, I'd have to take Holliday, though. I think he's going to be a special player in the next few years. What many expected Kearns to be eventually. Makes sense for the Reds to go after a RH power hitting OF.

If they could get Holliday and hope the Rocks throw in a prospect as well for Votto, Freel and Belisle (or Ross), I'd be all for it.

I'm 50/50 on Holliday or Hawpe. Hawpe hit over .300 on the road this past season. Like I said before he still has some work to do but I see him cutting those K's down by 40 to 50 in the next season. He reminds me of Hal Morris with more power. I see Hawpe as a legitimate #3 hitter in the next few years. Holliday is pretty darn good all by himself. I'd certainly take him for the right players. He's a refined Pat Burrell IMO.

Red Leader
11-30-2006, 02:32 PM
Secondary question here: Would this mean the Reds are considering keeping Jr. in CF? Or is one of Dunn and Jr. a goner?

I'd have to imagine that if ANYONE had interest in Jr, they'd try to move him.

Holliday is a LFer.

Hopefully they're not thinking: bring in the RH power OF bat to protect Jr. and trade Dunn the LH OF bat.

flyer85
11-30-2006, 02:32 PM
another Coors field mirage.

Team Clark
11-30-2006, 02:33 PM
Hawpe's a lefty, though.

I know. And I know where you are coming from. I was just looking down the road if the Reds moved Dunn and JR. The current Reds lineup needs a Holliday type bat. I'm with ya.:thumbup:

TOBTTReds
11-30-2006, 02:34 PM
I can't back this up, so maybe I'm all wet, but I think part of the "Coors Effect" is to dampen hitters on the road. They get used to flat breaking pitches and fly balls that carry and it makes them crummy hitters closer to earth. I'd guess that he'd hit somewhere between his home and road numbers.

Agreed. I think he would catch up to speed by a month into the season.

redsfanfalcon
11-30-2006, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Pedro:

"that's a lot to give up for a guy who may be just a product of Coors Field."

Coors field gave up less than GABP did, so he would rake in Cincy.

Will M
11-30-2006, 03:04 PM
Jr ideally should be a DH in the AL.
I can't see the Reds trading him due to the PR hit.
So Jr plays RF in Cinci and plays 100-120 games ( mostly vs RHP ).

Dunn's offense is needed in LF.

So where does Holliday play?
If we trade Dunn and replace him with Holliday it is a wash.

Trading Jr to the AL and playing Holliday in RF would be great but I don't see it happening.

LoganBuck
11-30-2006, 03:10 PM
GABP and Coors Field, what kind of park adjustments are there? Are the PECOTA projections out yet? Did I read that right that he is a free agent after 2007 and Scott Boras is his agent? If that is the case then I don't want to give up Votto.

BRM
11-30-2006, 03:11 PM
Jr ideally should be a DH in the AL.
I can't see the Reds trading him due to the PR hit.
So Jr plays RF in Cinci and plays 100-120 games ( mostly vs RHP ).

Dunn's offense is needed in LF.

So where does Holliday play?
If we trade Dunn and replace him with Holliday it is a wash.

Trading Jr to the AL and playing Holliday in RF would be great but I don't see it happening.

Ideally, Holliday goes to LF and Dunn slides to 1B but I don't see that happening.

LoganBuck
11-30-2006, 03:14 PM
Nevermind he can't file for free agency for another 3 years.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hollima01.shtml

Will M
11-30-2006, 03:16 PM
I don't like Dunn at 1B.

Dunn was not only bad at 1B but clearly wasn't a happy camper there. I think it could affect his hitting if he is unhappy in the field.
Plus I doesn't see the point of having a great defensive middle infield if you have stone hands/stone feet at 1B.

Plus Votto will hopefully arrive sometime this year.

KoryMac5
11-30-2006, 03:17 PM
I like the trade. Holliday can hit plain and simple he would thrive in GABP. I hate to lose Votto especially with Hatte coming off a career year, and we all doubt he can reproduce those numbers.

BRM
11-30-2006, 03:18 PM
I don't like Dunn at 1B.

Dunn was not only bad at 1B but clearly wasn't a happy camper there. I think it could affect his hitting if he is unhappy in the field.
Plus I doesn't see the point of having a great defensive middle infield if you have stone hands/stone feet at 1B.

Plus Votto will hopefully arrive sometime this year.

Well, Votto would be in Colorado if the deal that prompted this thread goes through. Keep Dunn in LF if Votto stays but if Votto is sent packing in a trade, I say move Dunn to 1B. I think he can become a decent 1B with time.

Will M
11-30-2006, 03:27 PM
1. I agree that if Dunn is willing to work on his defense he could be a decent 1B. Heck he could be a decent LF.
I think he would do more damage at 1B than in LF. Thinks of EE's throws going to Dunn's glove. :eek:

2. Freel, Votto, and Belisle for Holliday. hmm. I would have to think on this. Belisle is injured every year so no big loss. The plus side of Votto is that if he is the real deal he is CHEAP :) whereas Holliday is entering his arbitration years.

corkedbat
11-30-2006, 03:31 PM
Jr ideally should be a DH in the AL.
I can't see the Reds trading him due to the PR hit.
So Jr plays RF in Cinci and plays 100-120 games ( mostly vs RHP ).

Dunn's offense is needed in LF.

So where does Holliday play?
If we trade Dunn and replace him with Holliday it is a wash.

Trading Jr to the AL and playing Holliday in RF would be great but I don't see it happening.

Personally, I don't think the Reds give a darn about the PR hit. If they coud move Junior and a goodly portion of his remaining contract I think they'd do it in a heart beat, PR be dammned (and I think things are at the point that the PR hit would be negligible at best anyway).

I believe it's more along the lines of Junior no longer having much, if any, trade value, combined with the fact that he has 10/5 rights and would have to OK any deal. I still hold out hope that we can strike some kind of deal with the Yanks, Orioles or ChiSox and maybe receive something of value in return, but then turn around an laugh heartily at myself for being so foolish. :evil:

If WK can make it happen though, I will personally nominate him for sainthood. I love KGJ, but his deteriorating range, bat (this past season) and contract make him too much of a liabilty for a team like the Reds. Unfortuantely, it appears to be one we are saddled with for a couple of more years at least.

Highlifeman21
11-30-2006, 03:32 PM
I don't like Dunn at 1B.

Dunn was not only bad at 1B but clearly wasn't a happy camper there. I think it could affect his hitting if he is unhappy in the field.
Plus I doesn't see the point of having a great defensive middle infield if you have stone hands/stone feet at 1B.

Plus Votto will hopefully arrive sometime this year.

I guess it's just me, but I thought Dunn was acceptable at 1B and didn't put up bad defensive metrics there.

He's a great large target at 1B for our IF. I bet EE has no problem finding him.

Rojo
11-30-2006, 03:35 PM
Secondary question here: Would this mean the Reds are considering keeping Jr. in CF? Or is one of Dunn and Jr. a goner?

I think the latter but I'm not sure. Jr. would be everyone's preference but moving him will take some real creativity. But if the Dunn for Bonderman rumors are true then this isn't a bad direction. Sign a couple of platoon partners for Jr. and Hatte (Wilson and LeCroy) and your lineup's decent and your rotation tight.

Of course Narron's no Earl Weaver, so the platoon thing is probably a pipe dream.

Falls City Beer
11-30-2006, 03:38 PM
I think the latter but I'm not sure. Jr. would be everyone's preference but moving him will take some real creativity. But if the Dunn for Bonderman rumors are true then this isn't a bad direction. Sign a couple of platoon partners for Jr. and Hatte (Wilson and LeCroy) and your lineup's decent and your rotation tight.

Of course Narron's no Earl Weaver, so the platoon thing is probably a pipe dream.

I'd love to learn that Wayne called Jr. in and stated that he was moving to LF, no questions asked; and Jr. said, "I want out." That really would put the shine back on Krivsky; because that's just plain-ole going to the mat for the fans.

Will M
11-30-2006, 03:39 PM
Personally, I don't think the Reds give a darn about the PR hit. If they coud move Junior and a goodly portion of his remaining contract I think they'd do it in a heart beat, PR be dammned (and I think things are at the point that the PR hit would be negligible at best anyway).

I believe it's more along the lines of Junior no longer having much, if any, trade value, combined with the fact that he has 10/5 rights and would have to OK any deal. I still hold out hope that we can strike some kind of deal with the Yanks, Orioles or ChiSox and maybe receive something of value in return, but then turn around an laugh heartily at myself for being so foolish. :evil:

If WK can make it happen though, I will personally nominate him for sainthood. I love KGJ, but his deteriorating range, bat (this past season) and contract make him too much of a liabilty for a team like the Reds. Unfortuantely, it appears to be one we are saddled with for a couple of more years at least.

Just my opinion but I think a lot of Reds fans aren't that informed & just love KGJ, thinking he is still a star.
The local media just crows every time he hits a home run, no matter if he struck out 15 of the previous 20 at bats.
Bobby C would have to OK any trade of KGJ and I just don't see it happening. I personally would be thrilled if we traded KGJ ( even if we had to pay 1/2 his salary ).

corkedbat
11-30-2006, 03:39 PM
I'd love to learn that Wayne called Jr. in and stated that he was moving to LF, no questions asked; and Jr. said, "I want out." That really would put the shine back on Krivsky; because that's just plain-ole going to the mat for the fans.

I've been thinking the same thing too FCB

Rojo
11-30-2006, 03:44 PM
I'd love to learn that Wayne called Jr. in and stated that he was moving to LF, no questions asked; and Jr. said, "I want out." That really would put the shine back on Krivsky; because that's just plain-ole going to the mat for the fans.

I agree with one caveat -- that kind of decision isn't the GM's per se. But hopefully Narron sees it too.

Falls City Beer
11-30-2006, 03:45 PM
I agree with one caveat -- that kind of decision isn't the GM's per se. But hopefully Narron sees it too.

I'm sure Narron does a bunch of things that Wayne asks him to do.

Rojo
11-30-2006, 03:51 PM
I'm sure Narron does a bunch of things that Wayne asks him to do.


I'm not sure what they're power arrangement is but I wouldn't mind it if the above were true. I'm not a Narron fan.

Heath
11-30-2006, 04:17 PM
I'd love to learn that Wayne called Jr. in and stated that he was moving to LF, no questions asked; and Jr. said, "I want out." That really would put the shine back on Krivsky; because that's just plain-ole going to the mat for the fans.

That will tell me that WayneK's got as set of brass ones and seal the deal for me.

It's Narron that hides behind the school building at recess.

Even a Dunn LF, Deno CF, & KGJ RF would raise the defense.

BRM
11-30-2006, 04:24 PM
That will tell me that WayneK's got as set of brass ones and seal the deal for me.

It's Narron that hides behind the school building at recess.

Even a Dunn LF, Deno CF, & KGJ RF would raise the defense.

I won't be shocked at all next season if we see Dunn LF, Junior CF, Freel/Deno RF. I hope Wayne and Jerry do the right thing but I won't be surprised if we see Junior in CF until he gets hurt.

mound_patrol
11-30-2006, 04:33 PM
Why would the Rockies want Votto? Don't they still have Helton wrapped up for big bucks for a few years still?

Heath
11-30-2006, 04:37 PM
Why would the Rockies want Votto? Don't they still have Helton wrapped up for big bucks for a few years still?

True, but as most people know, large contracts can be easily eaten by the Yankees who have a first-baseman fetish that can only rival the Reds 3-catcher attack.

mound_patrol
11-30-2006, 04:39 PM
True, but as most people know, large contracts can be easily eaten by the Yankees who have a first-baseman fetish that can only rival the Reds 3-catcher attack.

This is usually true, but I thought I read he had the worst contract in the majors. I think there would be very few teams that would be willing to take on that kind of money for a guy who has a bad back. But I gues anything can happen in this game.

jesusfan
11-30-2006, 04:44 PM
I would definitely do the Freel/Votto/Belisle deal for Holliday... However, we would need to sign another first basemen to back-up Hatteberg, preferable Craig Wilson (Who might even take over the 1B job for good) I would love our line-up with:

1. Brandon Phillips-2nd
2. Adam Dunn- LF
3. Ken Griffey Jr- CF
4. Matt Holliday- RF
5. Edwin Encarnacion- 3rd
6. Craig Wilson-1st
7. David Ross-C
8. Alex Gonzalez-SS

Power from top to bottom with Phillips hitting 15-20 HR, Dunn 40-45 HR, Griffey(Healthy) 30 HR, Holliday 30 HR, Encarnacion 20-25 HR, Wilson 20-25 HR, Ross 15-20 HR, Gonzo 10-15 HR....

However, i would still love to get a pitcher by the name of Jason Jennings in this deal if we could throw in another prospect. A rotation of:

Harang
Arroyo
Jennings
Lohse
Bailey (By June)

Pick up a FA bullpen pitcher or 2 and there we go, we'll contend till the end!!!

mound_patrol
11-30-2006, 04:47 PM
What if we replaced votto with wood or cuerto? does that seem plausable?

jesusfan
11-30-2006, 04:49 PM
I would keep Wood and Cueto over Votto, Votto is very good, but a trio of Bailey, Wood, and Cueto will look great in 3-5 years... Good 1st basemen are pretty easy to find...

mound_patrol
11-30-2006, 04:52 PM
I would keep Wood and Cueto over Votto, Votto is very good, but a trio of Bailey, Wood, and Cueto will look great in 3-5 years... Good 1st basemen are pretty easy to find...

I agree with you on wood and cuerto being move valuable right now to this organization, but I really dont see them wanting votto unless they think helton or votto could play OF. I believe adding wood instead of votto is still a good trade on our side.

jesusfan
11-30-2006, 04:58 PM
Shew... I am salivating at the thought of having a guy in our line-up with a .326 AVG, 34 HRS, 114 RBI, and 45 Doubles and a .390 OBP, .973 OPS!!!

mound_patrol
11-30-2006, 05:05 PM
Shew... I am salivating at the thought of having a guy in our line-up with a .326 AVG, 34 HRS, 114 RBI, and 45 Doubles and a .390 OBP, .973 OPS!!!

like most things that get talked about on here, this will probably never happen. But its nice having something to think about today with little news about.

reds44
11-30-2006, 05:16 PM
It could be any number of of guys. Elijah Dukes could be that guy too. So could Matt Kemp or Matt Murton or Brent Cleven.
I would take Murton, Dukes, or Holiday.

Dukes has the highest ceiling but the lowest floor. Murton has already put up solid numbers and would be a good 2 hitter for us (he's only 23 maybe 24 now). Holiday would be good also.

reds44
11-30-2006, 05:17 PM
I would keep Wood and Cueto over Votto, Votto is very good, but a trio of Bailey, Wood, and Cueto will look great in 3-5 years... Good 1st basemen are pretty easy to find...
Yep I agree.

TeamSelig
11-30-2006, 05:22 PM
I don't really like trading Votto.

Definitely would do the deal above for Matt Murton.

Mario-Rijo
11-30-2006, 05:59 PM
Why would the Rockies want Votto? Don't they still have Helton wrapped up for big bucks for a few years still?




That's an outstanding point, plus something no one has mentioned is that the Rockies only dealt Shealy off because they have Helton and they also have a budding star at 1st base in AA.

Joe Koshansky (former 6th rd pick) 24 yr old - He of the 31 HR's and 109 RBI's in the Texas League last season. He also had a .371 OBP% and .526 Slg%. And he is also a L/L.

My guess is that they are not in the market for a young 1B.

Rojo
11-30-2006, 06:10 PM
I don't really like trading Votto.

I do. He's a nice bat but maybe the most easily-replaceable commodity in baseball.

VI_RedsFan
11-30-2006, 07:29 PM
I would definitely do the Freel/Votto/Belisle deal for Holliday... However, we would need to sign another first basemen to back-up Hatteberg, preferable Craig Wilson (Who might even take over the 1B job for good) I would love our line-up with:

1. Brandon Phillips-2nd
2. Adam Dunn- LF
3. Ken Griffey Jr- CF
4. Matt Holliday- RF
5. Edwin Encarnacion- 3rd
6. Craig Wilson-1st
7. David Ross-C
8. Alex Gonzalez-SS

Power from top to bottom with Phillips hitting 15-20 HR, Dunn 40-45 HR, Griffey(Healthy) 30 HR, Holliday 30 HR, Encarnacion 20-25 HR, Wilson 20-25 HR, Ross 15-20 HR, Gonzo 10-15 HR....

However, i would still love to get a pitcher by the name of Jason Jennings in this deal if we could throw in another prospect. A rotation of:

Harang
Arroyo
Jennings
Lohse
Bailey (By June)

Pick up a FA bullpen pitcher or 2 and there we go, we'll contend till the end!!!

I like your thinking. Eventhough I'm not sure if we could get Holliday AND Jennings just if we threw in a prospect, Jennings is a pitcher I would like to target. I'm thinking it would probably take this to get both in a Reds uni:

Freel, Belisle, Votto, Ross, and Cormier to COL for Matt Holliday and Jason Jennings

Would I do that trade? Yes. If we could get a hitter like Holliday to add to an offense of Dunn/Edwin/Griffey, as well as a young, groundball pitcher like Jennings to throw into the rotation, you have to do it.

If we could do this deal, I would like Kriv to entice Dunn into moving over to 1B and being happy about it. He may not be great defensively there now, but he's a huge target for our other infielders and he could improve. Move Junior over to RF (I know it is a pipe dream for Griffey to move to RF and Dunn to move to 1B, but it would still be better for the team), place Deno in CF and Holliday in LF, and we have a great defense. Here's the lineup:

CF Denorfia
1B Dunn
LF Holliday
3B Encarnacion
RF Griffey
2B Phillips
SS Gonzalez
C Moeller/Valentin

Thoughts?

Rojo
11-30-2006, 07:46 PM
Freel, Belisle, Votto, Ross, and Cormier to COL for Matt Holliday and Jason Jennings

Would be the Colorado GM be sending his crack pipe our way?

VI_RedsFan
11-30-2006, 08:19 PM
Would be the Colorado GM be sending his crack pipe our way?

Yeah, you're right. That trade by my was a little to Reds-favorable. I'm just not sure how much we would have to give to get Jennings and Holliday. We would probably be better off just going after Holliday for the Freel/Votto/Belisle package.

Rojo
11-30-2006, 08:23 PM
Yeah, you're right. That trade by my was a little to Reds-favorable. I'm just not sure how much we would have to give to get Jennings and Holliday. We would probably be better off just going after Holliday for the Freel/Votto/Belisle package.

I just don't know if we have enough for both.

VI_RedsFan
11-30-2006, 08:25 PM
I just don't know if we have enough for both.

Exactly. I'm afraid that the Rockies would ask for Dunn if we wanted Jennings. I like Jennings, but I'm not sure if I'd trade Dunn for him.

jmac
11-30-2006, 08:45 PM
Shew... I am salivating at the thought of having a guy in our line-up with a .326 AVG, 34 HRS, 114 RBI, and 45 Doubles and a .390 OBP, .973 OPS!!!
yes , agreed. he seems to project the type of #'s i always hoped kearns would have.kearns can be a dependable OF but 20-80 type #'s seems more like it now for whoever his team is.
if this actual trade was being discussed, i say go for it !

KoryMac5
11-30-2006, 09:35 PM
Helton becomes a free agent after the 2011 season and would be very hard for the Rockies to unload if they did acquire Votto as part of this deal.

cincinnati chili
11-30-2006, 10:14 PM
I was skeptical about Holliday through 2005, and laughed out loud when Buck Martinez picked him for the World Baseball Classic. That all changed last summer, when I lived in Colorado and got to watch most of his games on TV.

The "Coors Factor" is different than it used to be. Coors did NOT particularly suppress homers in 2006 (humidor). (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/mlb/article/0,2777,DRMN_23924_5142474,00.html) ["Last season, only 168 home runs were hit at Coors Field. The Rockies hit 75, tied for 13th among NL teams, and gave up 93, which ranked seventh."]. Coors might still take away a pitcher's breaking pitches, allowing good fastball hitters to sit on the fastball, but you don't see as many cheap homers as you used to. The humidored ball is a sponge.

Holliday is without exaggeration as big and strong as an average-sized NFL linebacker. Speaking entirely theoretically, if the Rockies were to trade him (which they won't), I think he'd continue to put up all star caliber numbers, as he enters his prime. The guy covers a whole lot of the plate, hits the ball real hard, and throws very well.

The Rockies aren't trading him unless somebody is going to give back a whole lot in return.

Topcat
11-30-2006, 11:40 PM
I was skeptical about Holliday through 2005, and laughed out loud when Buck Martinez picked him for the World Baseball Classic. That all changed last summer, when I lived in Colorado and got to watch most of his games on TV.

The "Coors Factor" is different than it used to be. Coors did NOT particularly suppress homers in 2006 (humidor). (http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/mlb/article/0,2777,DRMN_23924_5142474,00.html) ["Last season, only 168 home runs were hit at Coors Field. The Rockies hit 75, tied for 13th among NL teams, and gave up 93, which ranked seventh."]. Coors might still take away a pitcher's breaking pitches, allowing good fastball hitters to sit on the fastball, but you don't see as many cheap homers as you used to. The humidored ball is a sponge.

Holliday is without exaggeration as big and strong as an average-sized NFL linebacker. Speaking entirely theoretically, if the Rockies were to trade him (which they won't), I think he'd continue to put up all star caliber numbers, as he enters his prime. The guy covers a whole lot of the plate, hits the ball real hard, and throws very well.

The Rockies aren't trading him unless somebody is going to give back a whole lot in return.


I have friends in Longmont and they go to a few games each year and follow the Rockies on TV alot. I totally agree on your assessment of Hollidays Game. The humidor effect has balanced of things alot. But near the end of the year they ran out of balls for proper aging and it was old Coors effect in full bloom late September.

dunner13
12-01-2006, 11:02 AM
Dunn for Jennings, Holiday and a good prospect. Gives us our thrid starter, replaces dunn, saves us enough money that we could sign Jose Guillen or another outfielder. Not sure who the rockies have in the bullpen but if you could get some young future closer as the prospect then this would be a pretty solid deal.
If were going to give up freel/belisle/voto I think I would rather give up wood then voto. Cueto I would keep for sure. Voto is the best 1B above AA in the entire minor leagues right now, he looks like an all star first baseman for years to come. I like wood but he tops out at like 88mph, not that you have to throw hard to be successful look at tom glavine, it just that its rare to see a true ace that doesnt hit at least 90 mph. I see him as a #3 starter most likely.

Heath
12-01-2006, 11:25 AM
Jeff Francis just signed a 4 yr deal to stay in Denver to pitch for the Rockes. Darn.

RedEye
12-01-2006, 11:28 AM
Would be the Colorado GM be sending his crack pipe our way?

That deal would be worse than The Trade for Colorado. Let's hope it happens!

Jpup
12-01-2006, 11:43 AM
the Reds already have a Matt Holliday, he wears #44. I'd rather have Hawpe, but I guess Holliday could play right since Jr. is going to be the CF. I just don't see what the Reds have to trade for the guy.

jesusfan
12-01-2006, 03:12 PM
#44 is not Matt Holliday, go look at his numbers my man... .325 AVG, 30 HR, 114 RBI....

Doc. Scott
12-01-2006, 04:57 PM
Either Holliday or Hawpe would seem to be a decent fit (probably the former, given his RH hitting), but how does everyone feel about trading away Joey Votto as a return? I really have no problem with trading Freel or Belisle- even though Ryan's useful and Matt will likely have several decent seasons before he's done- but Votto is a very good prospect that's not blocked by any veterans of significance (no, Scott Hatteberg's one-year deal doesn't count).

And what would the Rockies want with Votto, anyway? Have they traded all 134 of their first-base prospects already? Votto will be ready for the majors well before Todd Helton's Mothra of a contract is up.

I would also be in favor of pursuing Jason Jennings, but I wonder what the cost might be. I might give up Votto for him, but not much in addition to that. Jennings' market value is hard to assess given his mid-range salary, recent career bests and scary comparison chart (http://www.baseball-reference.com/j/jennija01.shtml) (hel-lo, Kyle at #6).

EDIT: I would consider subbing Travis Wood or Johnny Cueto in for Votto in a trade for Holliday, Hawpe, or Jennings. As alluring as either pitcher might be as a prospect, neither's pitched above A-ball. There's a heckuva lot that can still go wrong with either. Once a prospect has succeeded at AA or AAA, he instantly becomes more valuable in my mind.

Newman4
12-01-2006, 11:14 PM
Um, can any trade with Colorado include LHP Josh Newman? For obvious reasons :D Thanks!

cincy09
12-01-2006, 11:40 PM
From MLB4U :


Jacque Jones, RF--Chicago Cubs: Once the Cubs sign Cliff Floyd, they could make Jones available in trades, likely in exchange for pitching. The Cubs have discussed sending him to the Rockies for Jason Jennings.

Unlikely but if this were to go down I would not be a happy camper.

Will M
12-22-2006, 01:01 PM
From Fox Sports:

There are signs that the Angels' interest in Todd Helton are no longer in deep freeze. Los Angeles officials inquired about Helton at the winter meetings and were prepared to offer a package of infielder Erick Aybar, first baseman Casey Kotchman and catcher Jeff Mathis. The Angels were reluctant to push the talks forward because of concerns regarding Helton's age, declining productivity and a nagging back injury, according to a source with direct knowledge of the discussions. However, if the Rockies are willing to eat a substantial amount of the remaining $90.1 million contract owed Helton, particularly down the road when the contract escalates, Anaheim could revisit talks, according to a major league official. The teams have talked since the winter meetings, an indication that the deal, while a longshot, isn't completely dead. Helton said two weeks ago that he has not requested a trade or been approached about approving a deal to Anaheim. He has veto power over any deal, but acknowledged that the Rockies "want to get rid of my contract." The reason is simple: Helton will earn $16.6 million next season on a projected $55-million cash payroll, one of baseball's smallest payrolls.

If the Rockies trade Helton they might be interested in a package headed by Votto for Holliday.

Patrick Bateman
12-22-2006, 01:32 PM
If the Rockies trade Helton they might be interested in a package headed by Votto for Holliday.

I'm guessing if the Rockies trade Helton to the Angels they will get one of the Angel's 1st basemen prospects like Kotchman or McPherson. I don't think the Rockies are looking to move both Helton and Holliday.

AdamDunn
12-22-2006, 03:15 PM
I would try not to move Votto... Dunn and Cueto/Wood for Holiday. Holiday is no Coors Field product because last year he still put up 100 RBI's even though they used the humidifier. Not only that, he's cheap!!!

Dracodave
12-22-2006, 03:33 PM
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
Home 78 295 70 110 24 2 22 78 204 26 44 5 2 .440 .692 . 373
Away 77 307 49 86 21 3 12 36 149 21 66 5 3 .333 .485 .280



Looks like to me he is abit of HR hitter in coors compared to away.

But that may just be my view of things?

guttle11
12-22-2006, 03:41 PM
I would try not to move Votto... Dunn and Cueto/Wood for Holiday. Holiday is no Coors Field product because last year he still put up 100 RBI's even though they used the humidifier. Not only that, he's cheap!!!

So at best the Reds would be making an equal switch in Holliday and Dunn (Although Dunn will have better numbers in all likelihood) and the Reds would be giving up one of their 3 best pitching prospect?

That would be a disaster.

Red Leader
12-22-2006, 03:50 PM
So at best the Reds would be making an equal switch in Holliday and Dunn (Although Dunn will have better numbers in all likelihood) and the Reds would be giving up one of their 3 best pitching prospect?

That would be a disaster.

Hey! That'd free up some pay flex so Krivsky could sign Ron Villone, Scott Schoeneweis, Darrin Erstad, Steve Finley, Matt Herges, Rudy Seanez, and Ricky Ledee.

Dracodave
12-22-2006, 03:51 PM
Hey! That'd free up some pay flex so Krivsky could sign Ron Villone, Scott Schoeneweis, Darrin Erstad, Steve Finley, Matt Herges, Rudy Seanez, and Ricky Ledee.

And then trade Bray+Bailey For Randy Johnson. :devil:

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-22-2006, 04:41 PM
He had a much better year than I'd thought but his hime/road splits are pretty extreme.



SPLIT AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB HBP SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Home 295 70 110 24 2 22 78 26 11 44 5 2 .373 .440 .692 1.132
Away 307 49 86 21 3 12 36 21 4 66 5 3 .280 .333 .485 .819


that's a lot to give up for a guy who may be just a product of Coors Field.

Well he can be a product of gabp then. Id take a stab at him, wonder if you threw dunn and Hatte in there instead of votto you could get helton in the deal.

AdamDunn
12-22-2006, 09:31 PM
So at best the Reds would be making an equal switch in Holliday and Dunn (Although Dunn will have better numbers in all likelihood) and the Reds would be giving up one of their 3 best pitching prospect?

That would be a disaster.

Cheaper, younger, and better at defense. Even though I love both Wood and Cueto, both have question marks on them. Wood's production slowed down last year and Cueto might not be able to be a starting pitcher because he's short. Plus, if we want to get into the playoffs, we need to be good in September. And everyone knows that Dunn tanks in September.

(I think this is ironic since my s/n is AdamDunn, oh my)

Ron Madden
12-23-2006, 12:39 AM
if we want to get into the playoffs, we need to be good in September. And everyone knows that Dunn tanks in September.

(I think this is ironic since my s/n is AdamDunn, oh my)

Whithout the numbers Dunn put up in April, September dosen't matter.

The Cowboy
04-22-2008, 02:13 PM
[QUOTE=Tom Servo;1202216]He goes on to note a deal with the Rockies for Holliday could potentially involve Freel, Votto, and Belisle.
QUOTE]

Thought I would bump this lol.. That would have been a pretty nice deal to have done haha..

LouisvilleCARDS
04-22-2008, 03:43 PM
another Coors field mirage.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Degenerate39
04-22-2008, 03:46 PM
My eyes got big when I saw the thread title then my hopes were smashed.

bgwilly31
04-22-2008, 03:53 PM
So we get rid of hamilton, and now want to go after another Power hitter OF. :rolleyes:

MasonBuzz3
04-22-2008, 04:15 PM
So we get rid of hamilton, and now want to go after another Power hitter OF. :rolleyes:

are you for real? did you happen to watch major league baseball at all last year? Matt Holiday >>>>> Josh Hamilton...and punt.

btw, the thread is a year and a half old....we all could only be so lucky to have the Reds pull off that proposed deal at this point in time

NorrisHopper30
04-22-2008, 04:37 PM
So we get rid of hamilton, and now want to go after another Power hitter OF. :rolleyes:

Matt Holliday is RH.

bgwilly31
04-22-2008, 04:41 PM
are you for real? did you happen to watch major league baseball at all last year? Matt Holiday >>>>> Josh Hamilton...and punt.

btw, the thread is a year and a half old....we all could only be so lucky to have the Reds pull off that proposed deal at this point in time

ahhaha didnt notice the thread was old.

K-GAR
04-22-2008, 11:58 PM
:D

wow, i was ready to slam some people for questioning at all a deal for HOlliday involving Votto, Freel and Belisle.....didn't notice till about page 4 till it was an old thread, i was sitting here just dumbfounded that people wouldn't have been jumping all over their self to get the NL MVP (IMO). for basically just Votto. lol.

mroby85
04-23-2008, 12:06 AM
So we get rid of hamilton, and now want to go after another Power hitter OF. :rolleyes:

have you seen the guy they got for hamilton? you should check him out, he's pretty good. :rolleyes:

ChatterRed
04-23-2008, 10:10 AM
This thread was started in November of 2006.

Carin4Narron
04-23-2008, 10:38 AM
It's insane to bring a thread up from 2 fricking years also

The Cowboy
04-23-2008, 11:56 AM
It's insane to bring a thread up from 2 fricking years also

yeah i was jus browsing through and saw the proposed deal and thought it was a tad bit funny.. but im sorry if i hurt anyone for bumping up a thread from two years ago.. if anyone had any medical problems because i did this than contact me and ill foot the doctors bill lol