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View Full Version : Whom does Wayne return with Dec. 7?



Falls City Beer
12-02-2006, 01:35 PM
When the Winter Meetings end on the 7th who is in the fold? Place your bets.

VI_RedsFan
12-02-2006, 01:42 PM
I'm going to put money on Jake Westbrook being in a Reds (sharp-looking) uni by the time the meetings are done with. I can also see us signing Craig Wilson. I could possibly see us sending a package to Colorado for Holliday but I wouldn't put money on it.

pedro
12-02-2006, 01:53 PM
I'm thinking Craig Wilson too.

The Yankees didn't offer him Arb.

Krusty
12-02-2006, 02:03 PM
I'm still sticking to my deal with the Tigers:

Dunn, Coffey and Brian Shackelford to Detroit for OF Craig Monroe, RHP reliever Fernando Rodney and LHP Will Ledezma.

Reds then sign either Craig Wilson or Eduardo Perez.

Heath
12-02-2006, 02:11 PM
1-1 odds that he brings back Mrs. Krivsky.

8-5 odds he brings another catcher, an ex-Twin, or another Middle Infielder

5-1 odds he brings back the RH 1b (either Perez or Wilson)

10-1 odds he brings back relief help

50-1 odds he lands a starting pitcher.

100-1 odds he trades Dunn

1000-1 odds he trades Griffey

100000-1 odds he hires Krusty as Ass't GM.



:D

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2006, 02:13 PM
Probably some more overpaid crap.

Jpup
12-02-2006, 02:14 PM
a bunch of nothing?:)

mth123
12-02-2006, 02:16 PM
The pessimist in me says Darin Erstad, Matt Lecroy and Steve Trachsel.

The optimist says Jay Payton, Craig Wilson, and Jason Jennings.

The realist says Eduardo Perez and a reliever who is suited for the 7th inning at best like the other 20 or so on the roster. Maybe Weathers.

Falls City Beer
12-02-2006, 02:20 PM
Probably some more overpaid crap.

Like? I'm looking for names.

RedLegSuperStar
12-02-2006, 02:28 PM
I'm going to put money on Jake Westbrook being in a Reds (sharp-looking) uni by the time the meetings are done with. I can also see us signing Craig Wilson. I could possibly see us sending a package to Colorado for Holliday but I wouldn't put money on it.

I hope your right

WMR
12-02-2006, 02:29 PM
Barry Zeeto, Jason Schmith, and Grayson Jennings

Spring~Fields
12-02-2006, 02:32 PM
When the Winter Meetings end on the 7th who is in the fold? Place your bets.

Too many low cost pickups for me to guess.

Player or players that would not increase the operations budget, that is the player payroll budget by more than a little bit or some players that can fit into the wiggle room within the budget.

Or he will have to trade some of his current major league roster or potential jewels within the minor leagues. He has three catchers, one second baseman, Phillips a first baseman, Hatteberg and a left fielder, Dunn and right fielder, Freel that he could trade, but unless he makes a huge haul in return it will probably not make sense to him to trade any of them and then he will return with nothing. So I will guess small moves that do not cause the budget to go higher outside of “wiggle room” like his previous 42.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2006, 02:33 PM
Like? I'm looking for names.

Probably Steve Trachsel or Jesse Orosco.

cincy09
12-02-2006, 02:34 PM
The optimist says Jay Payton, Craig Wilson, and Jason Jennings.

That sounds absolutely outstanding.
Solves many problems and doesn't cost an arm and a leg as compared to other signings.

Krusty
12-02-2006, 02:40 PM
That sounds absolutely outstanding.
Solves many problems and doesn't cost an arm and a leg as compared to other signings.

Do you think the Rockies are just going to give Jennings away? I think it would cost at least Freel (he would provide coverage in center) along with adding a couple of arms (Belisle?, Bray?) to the deal.

mth123
12-02-2006, 02:44 PM
Do you think the Rockies are just going to give Jennings away? I think it would cost at least Freel (he would provide coverage in center) along with adding a couple of arms (Belisle?, Bray?) to the deal.

I'd do that and throw in Wood.

cincy09
12-02-2006, 02:48 PM
Do you think the Rockies are just going to give Jennings away? I think it would cost at least Freel (he would provide coverage in center) along with adding a couple of arms (Belisle?, Bray?) to the deal.

Still a great deal in my opinion.
I doubt Freel and Belisle would be enough. WE would prob have to include a prospect.

Highlifeman21
12-02-2006, 03:00 PM
I'm still sticking to my deal with the Tigers:

Dunn, Coffey and Brian Shackelford to Detroit for OF Craig Monroe, RHP reliever Fernando Rodney and LHP Will Ledezma.

Reds then sign either Craig Wilson or Eduardo Perez.

You must have seen Krivsky @ Carlo and Johnnys. This is a much different deal than the one he was trying to make @ The Precinct...

Krivsky's biggest blunder of this offseason (so far) has been not signing David Delluci. 2007 will be his year. Mark it down.

Highlifeman21
12-02-2006, 03:03 PM
I'd do that and throw in Wood.

I'd go Wood, Freel, Belisle in a heartbeat for JJ.

I have a feeling Colorado wouldn't.

toledodan
12-02-2006, 03:04 PM
I'm still sticking to my deal with the Tigers:

Dunn, Coffey and Brian Shackelford to Detroit for OF Craig Monroe, RHP reliever Fernando Rodney and LHP Will Ledezma.

Reds then sign either Craig Wilson or Eduardo Perez.




there is no way deroit makes that deal. i wouldn't mind seeing it but there is no way that will happen.

toledodan
12-02-2006, 03:06 PM
Probably Steve Trachsel or Jesse Orosco.



i would love to get westbrook but if the reds sign the above 2 i would look for a new team to cheer for.:help: :mooner: :bang:

Falls City Beer
12-02-2006, 03:11 PM
i would love to get westbrook but if the reds sign the above 2 i would look for a new team to cheer for.:help: :mooner: :bang:

No way the Reds would pay for Orosco's walkers. :) :(

Redus
12-02-2006, 03:47 PM
the inevitable 4TH CATCHER!!!!

George Anderson
12-02-2006, 04:29 PM
December 7th is Johnny Bench's Bday so I am guessing a catcher!!!

Handofdeath
12-02-2006, 04:31 PM
December 7th is Johnny Bench's Bday so I am guessing a catcher!!!

If it's December 7th then I would guess catcher as well, only he would be Japanese.

George Anderson
12-02-2006, 04:39 PM
If it's December 7th then I would guess catcher as well, only he would be Japanese.

I sure hope not, the Japanese player will surely have a "zero" batting average.:laugh:

jojo
12-02-2006, 04:50 PM
For those inclined to favor J. Guillen, it looks like he might be heading to the pacific northwest...

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061202&content_id=1749651&vkey=hotstove2006&fext=.jsp

Spitball
12-02-2006, 04:51 PM
I'd go Wood, Freel, Belisle in a heartbeat for JJ.

I have a feeling Colorado wouldn't.

I would really like to see Jason Jennings added to the Reds' rotation, but I really think we are losing sight of this guy's abilities and especially his worth.

First, the guy's value is high right now because he is coming off a good season. In the three years before last year, he was a not a good pitcher. Why give up so much for an always out of shape, number four starter? Wood and Belisle along with Freel?!?! Isn't that like over-paying for a Suppan or Weaver?

And, if it is a ground ball pitcher the Reds need, maybe there are other options out there who are not coming off career years.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=pitching&linesToDisplay=50&orderBy=gbPcnt&direction=DESC&qual_filter=1&season_filter%5B%5D=2006&league_filter%5B%5D=2&Submit=Submit

Note Jennings is pretty far down the list of ground ball pitchers (Too many to count but about thirty-something in the NL). Heck, I'd rather go after Cook (number three on the list) who is coning off a poor season, but has more upside than Jennings.

mth123
12-02-2006, 05:05 PM
I would really like to see Jason Jennings added to the Reds' rotation, but I really think we are losing sight of this guy's abilities.

First, the guy's value is high right now because he is coming off a good season. In the three years before last year, he was a not a good pitcher. Why give up so much for an always out of shape, number four starter? Isn't that like over-paying for a Suppan or Weaver?

And, if it is a ground ball pitcher the Reds need, maybe there are other options out there who are not coming off career years.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/index.php?view=pitching&linesToDisplay=50&qual_filter=1&season_filter[0]=2006&league_filter[0]=All&Submit=Submit&orderBy=gbPcnt&direction=DESC&page=1

Note Jennings is pretty far down the list of ground ball pitchers (Too many to count but about forty-something). Heck, I'd rather go after Cook (number five on the list) who is coning off a poor season, but has more upside than Jennings.

I like Cook better too, but Jennings is the one available. I see the majors with only about 50 to 60 quality starters right now. Jennings is one of them. If the Reds got him, they would have 3 (and Bailey could make it 4 eventually). With 30 teams that would put them in good position IMO. Not many teams even have 2 these days.

Its not just about ground balls, but also about guys who have shown they can pitch in a hitters park. I fear guys who have put up numbers (and jacked up the price) by pitching in a pitchers paradise. That's why I like Padilla better than Zito. Zito could fall way off in GABP, where Padilla will likely pitch in GABP the same way he did in Texas. Jennings is similar in that we know about what we'll get. When its time to gamble, I like some certainty.:)

Freel, Belisle and a prospect isn't too much. Jennings is one of the few like this that may be available without giving up $50 Million or Dunn, EE or Bailey. I wouldn't trade any of them for him.

Strikes Out Looking
12-02-2006, 05:43 PM
I think he'll return with Ken Griffey Jr. from Seattle. Oh wait, different GM, different year.

Ok, Wayne will return with his dirty laundry, a little tan and not much else.

Falls City Beer
12-02-2006, 05:44 PM
I think he'll return with Ken Griffey Jr. from Seattle. Oh wait, different GM, different year.

Ok, Wayne will return with his dirty laundry, a little tan and not much else.

Let's hope he doesn't spend too much time on the "It's a Small World" ride.

dunner13
12-02-2006, 05:51 PM
Im saying he returns with a pitcher. Someone who can slide into the #3 spot in the rotation and give us 200 innings with an era around 4.00

reds44
12-02-2006, 06:28 PM
I'm going to say Matt Murton.

Krusty
12-02-2006, 06:46 PM
Im saying he returns with a pitcher. Someone who can slide into the #3 spot in the rotation and give us 200 innings with an era around 4.00

Sounds like a Dunn for Bonderman deal.

Kc61
12-02-2006, 06:46 PM
Steve Trachsel. David Weathers. Craig Wilson or Phil Nevin.

And, behind the scenes, an agreement by Griffey to move to right and let Freel/Deno play center.

Not very exciting. Hoping for more.

Falls City Beer
12-02-2006, 07:00 PM
Steve Trachsel. David Weathers. Craig Wilson or Phil Nevin.

And, behind the scenes, an agreement by Griffey to move to right and let Freel/Deno play center.

Not very exciting. Hoping for more.

I'd almost rather go with Lohse than Trachsel at this point. And that's saying something.

RedLegSuperStar
12-02-2006, 07:02 PM
surprised no one has said Luis Gonzalez.. he's been linked to the Reds. Although I'd prefer Trot Nixon.

reds44
12-02-2006, 07:05 PM
surprised no one has said Luis Gonzalez.. he's been linked to the Reds. Although I'd prefer Trot Nixon.
Gonzalez would mean Junior starts in CF. I'd rather go with Deno.

Krusty
12-02-2006, 07:10 PM
Anybody getting the feeling that Krivsky doesn't think highly of the remaining free agents and the money they are getting?

Highlifeman21
12-02-2006, 07:19 PM
Anybody getting the feeling that Krivsky doesn't think highly of the remaining free agents and the money they are getting?

At least Wayne's not spending money for the sake of spending money. At least we can commend him on that.

jmac
12-02-2006, 07:22 PM
Let's hope he doesn't spend too much time on the "It's a Small World" ride.

i went on that ride when i was about 5 yrs old. I cried and cried for it to end cause with all the rides down there, that was the one I was scared of.
oh...dont tell anybody though. Deal ??

redsfan4445
12-02-2006, 07:39 PM
Cubs asking about Jennings?

Per Rosenthalmlbtraderumors.com

"Jacque Jones For Jason Jennings?
Ken Rosenthal reports that the Cubs have discussed a trade with the Rockies: Jacque Jones for Jason Jennings. The Rox would then spin off Jones in another deal.

While I am not a huge fan of Jennings (I project his ERA at 4.62 next year), this would be a fine move for the Cubs if complemented by a Julio Lugo signing. At the least Jennings would be likely to eat up 200 innings and go deep into games.

My guess is that Jim Hendry would need to include another player to make this work, given the scarcity of decent cheap pitching. It's a good time to trade Jones, who has two years left on his deal for just $9MM total. He had his best season since 2002 last year."

not many options are out there... dwindling each and every day..

I want Craig Wilson.. i was thinking maybe bringing Guillen back as he was awesome with the Reds last time, but looks as if Seattle gets him..if the rumors are true..

Krusty
12-02-2006, 07:44 PM
Anybody think the Reds could be trading partners with the Pirates involving Dunn? They are looking for a lefthanded power hitter and might put LHP closer Mike Gonzalez and possibly a starter like LHP Paul Maholm on the block. With the re-signing of LHP Damaso Marte, they might entertain trade offers for Gonzalez while turning the closer role over to RHP Salamon Torres.

redsfan4445
12-02-2006, 07:47 PM
Anybody think the Reds could be trading partners with the Pirates involving Dunn? They are looking for a lefthanded power hitter and might put LHP closer Mike Gonzalez and possibly a starter like LHP Paul Maholm on the block. With the re-signing of LHP Damaso Marte, they might entertain trade offers for Gonzalez while turning the closer role over to RHP Salamon Torres.

we have to ask for a bat in return.. they already lost Richs bat, and if the Reds trade Dunn.. thats alot of offense!!!

mth123
12-02-2006, 07:49 PM
Steve Trachsel. David Weathers. Craig Wilson or Phil Nevin.

And, behind the scenes, an agreement by Griffey to move to right and let Freel/Deno play center.

Not very exciting. Hoping for more.

Steve Trachsel might be enough to make me quit watching the Reds. He frequently pitches poorly, occasionally pitches well but always pitches slowly and deliberately. Even when he pitches well we'd be slitting our wrists due to the absolute torture of watching him pitch for 7 innings. He's the most unwatchable player in baseball from a style perspective IMO.

Krusty
12-02-2006, 07:52 PM
we have to ask for a bat in return.. they already lost Richs bat, and if the Reds trade Dunn.. thats alot of offense!!!


One deal could set up another one. It wouldn't surprise me to see Wayne K. shop Ryan Freel in the right deal for a young hitter or starting pitcher.

mth123
12-02-2006, 07:58 PM
Anybody think the Reds could be trading partners with the Pirates involving Dunn? They are looking for a lefthanded power hitter and might put LHP closer Mike Gonzalez and possibly a starter like LHP Paul Maholm on the block. With the re-signing of LHP Damaso Marte, they might entertain trade offers for Gonzalez while turning the closer role over to RHP Salamon Torres.

Word is that the Pirates may trade one of Duke, Gorzelanny (sp?), or Malholm for a bat. I would love to grab one, but wouldn't trade Dunn or EE for them.

jojo
12-02-2006, 08:17 PM
He comes back with Andy Pettitte (2 yrs/$35M) and Bowden's favorite pair of leather pants...

reds44
12-02-2006, 08:18 PM
He comes back with Andy Pettitte (2 yrs/$35M) and Bowden's favorite pair of leather pants...

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Spitball
12-02-2006, 08:29 PM
Freel, Belisle and a prospect isn't too much.

I agree...as long as the prospect isn't Travis Wood.

noskill27
12-02-2006, 08:40 PM
Ideally, he would bring back a new manager...

IslandRed
12-02-2006, 09:56 PM
Steve Trachsel. David Weathers. Craig Wilson or Phil Nevin.

And, behind the scenes, an agreement by Griffey to move to right and let Freel/Deno play center.

Not very exciting. Hoping for more.

Let me put this as diplomatically as I can: Getting Junior out of center in favor of a plus defender like Denorfia would be a run-prevention upgrade equivalent to signing a pretty good free-agent pitcher. And it won't cost us a dime, unless Krivsky brings in someone else to do the replacing. It's not all I want to see us do either, but it's something I'd be excited about.

jojo
12-02-2006, 10:24 PM
Let me put this as diplomatically as I can: Getting Junior out of center in favor of a plus defender like Denorfia would be a run-prevention upgrade equivalent to signing a pretty good free-agent pitcher. And it won't cost us a dime, unless Krivsky brings in someone else to do the replacing. It's not all I want to see us do either, but it's something I'd be excited about.

Absolutely.

Krusty
12-02-2006, 11:06 PM
Let me put this as diplomatically as I can: Getting Junior out of center in favor of a plus defender like Denorfia would be a run-prevention upgrade equivalent to signing a pretty good free-agent pitcher. And it won't cost us a dime, unless Krivsky brings in someone else to do the replacing. It's not all I want to see us do either, but it's something I'd be excited about.


In order for this to happen, you have to shift Junior to either LF or RF. Yet, the Reds seem to be looking for a righthanded hitting outfielder too. Now unless this righthanded hitting outfielder can play centerfield, where do you play him? And Krivsky has said previously that Denorfia at worst is a fourth outfielder.

If I'm a betting man (where are you Pete Rose?), I be putting money down that Krivsky moves Dunn.

RedsManRick
12-02-2006, 11:15 PM
Let me put this as diplomatically as I can: Getting Junior out of center in favor of a plus defender like Denorfia would be a run-prevention upgrade equivalent to signing a pretty good free-agent pitcher. And it won't cost us a dime, unless Krivsky brings in someone else to do the replacing. It's not all I want to see us do either, but it's something I'd be excited about.

Exactly. If the difference between Junior and Deno is 20 runs, that's the difference between a 4.00 ERA and a 5.00 ERA over 180 IP. Basically it turns a #5 starter in to a #3. Apparently at RedsFest he said that Junior's defensive position is a decision for Narron, not him.

Always Red
12-02-2006, 11:26 PM
Exactly. If the difference between Junior and Deno is 20 runs, that's the difference between a 4.00 ERA and a 5.00 ERA over 180 IP. Basically it turns a #5 starter in to a #3. Apparently at RedsFest he said that Junior's defensive position is a decision for Narron, not him.

Which means, to me, that he told Narron to go and talk to him about moving over to RF, LOL!:laugh: :laugh:

corkedbat
12-02-2006, 11:29 PM
My Fantasy Offseason/early season:

* Acquire Holliday or Hawpe from the Rockies

* Acquire a pitcher along the lines of Jennings from the Rox or Westbrook from the Indians

* Acquire a young closer candidate

[I make available Deno or Freel, a Catcher, Belisle, Lohse, Milton (do anything to move him), Ramierez, Claussen, a reliever or two and ANY combination of minor leaguers other than Bailey or Bruce (even Votto, Cueto and Wood are on the table) to make these deals happen]

* Sign a FA starter along the lines of Armas or someone who might be a upgrade to the 5th spot in the rotation

* Sign one from among Eduardo Perez/Craig Wilson/Trot Nixon/Shea Hildebrand/Preston Wilson as a RH bat off the bench

* Convince Dunn to move to first base (I'm one of those who believe he would be a good one in time)

* Move Junior to a corner (depending on whether you acquire Holiday or Hawpe)

* If Milton couldn't be dealt I would hope that he would get off to a decent start in Apr/May as the fourth starter and then be dealt for anything of value, to be replaced by Bailey at the soonest possible moment.

Lineup:
CF Denorfia/Freel
1B Dunn
LF/RF Holliday/Hawpe
3B Encarnacion
RF/LF Griffey
2B Phillips
C Ross/Valentin/(other)
SS Gonzalaez

Bench:
Hatteberg
Perez/C.Wilson/Nixon/Hildebrand/P.Wilson
Castro
Harris/Gil/Olmedo/Suarez/?
Wise/Hopper/Crosby/?
Moeller/Valentin/?

Rotation:
Harang
Arroyo
Jennings/Westbrook
Milton
(FA)/Lohse/Belisle/Claussen/Ramierez

LH Pen (three from among):
Bray
Stanton
Cormier
Claussen
Shackleford
Schoenweiss
Dumatrait

RH Pen (Three from among):
(Trade Acquisition)
Weathers
Coffee
Majewski
Belisle/Lohse (if not dealt or in the rotation)
Shafer
Salmon
Medlock

The likely (grounded-in-reality) result?

* Junior stays in Center
* The Donk stays in left
* We sign one or two like Perez/Wilson/Nixon/Hildebrand to paltoon at 1B and/or RF and add bench depth
* We sign a low-end FA starter along the lines of another Lohse to compete for the 5th spot behind Harang/Arroyo/Milton/Lohse
* A couple of little filler deals of little real impact
* Milton hangs around with another season about like last year and packs it in early sometime in July/Aug with knee problems

LoganBuck
12-02-2006, 11:34 PM
In order for this to happen, you have to shift Junior to either LF or RF. Yet, the Reds seem to be looking for a righthanded hitting outfielder too. Now unless this righthanded hitting outfielder can play centerfield, where do you play him? And Krivsky has said previously that Denorfia at worst is a fourth outfielder.

If I'm a betting man (where are you Pete Rose?), I be putting money down that Krivsky moves Dunn.

I agree wiht your premise Krusty, but what about moving Junior? Krivsky mentioned something about doing things to prolong his career today. A move to the AL would allow him to DH. He may be easier to move now that he is down to two years on his contract.

vaticanplum
12-02-2006, 11:37 PM
Nobody's mentioned Zito. I'll go ahead and shoot high and unrealistically. I'm a fan, it doesn't do me any damage to dream.

Always Red
12-02-2006, 11:41 PM
Nobody's mentioned Zito. I'll go ahead and shoot high and unrealistically. I'm a fan, it doesn't do me any damage to dream.

A buddy of mine, who works for Fox, swears to me that the Reds are going hard for Zito; I don't know if I believe him or not.

corkedbat
12-02-2006, 11:50 PM
A buddy of mine, who works for Fox, swears to me that the Reds are going hard for Zito; I don't know if I believe him or not.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see them make sincere runs at Zito, Schmidt, Meche, Mulder, Suppan, Lilly, Padilla and/or others. It would stupefy me if they met with any real success given this market.

vaticanplum
12-02-2006, 11:56 PM
A buddy of mine, who works for Fox, swears to me that the Reds are going hard for Zito; I don't know if I believe him or not.

Lord, don't tease me. I want the Reds to sign him more than anything, but I've never allowed myself to believe it will actually happen. I have no idea what I would do if they signed him. It would be uberdramatic and probably illegal.

Mario-Rijo
12-02-2006, 11:59 PM
WK says no starters via FA unless prices come down, and that ain't happening! So no FA starters are coming.

No MI needed
No Catchers Needed

So my guess is....

RHP Dustin Hermanson (800K plus bonus incentives) - Could be our closer if he can stay healthy. He has 1 thing going for him, and it's not that he's a Springfield native (It didn't help RW much). He has that Closers mentality, he loves to close games and thrives on the pressure. Had 34 saves in '05 for the WS champion White Sox. His back has hurt his velocity and his back may never be the same but I think he is worth the gamble.

1B/COF Craig Wilson - His positives & negatives have been weighed back & forth on here so I won't get into that but I think he does give us a nice solid option in the field and in the batters box vs. LHP. His biggest positive is his versatility which is something that Narron likes to get out of his players.

RHP David Weathers - There has to be more than 1 reason that Kriv didn't offer arbitration and that could be that Weathers may have agreed to give Wayne a shot to match any offer.

Westbrook and Jennings are both on my want list but I don't know if it happens.

corkedbat
12-03-2006, 12:04 AM
I don't think a MI is actually a big need, but I'd still like to see them pickup a solid all-around young AA/AAA guy to fill the gap in the upper reaches of the farm system and be ready if BP or AG is injured

Mario-Rijo
12-03-2006, 12:13 AM
I don't think a MI is actually a big need, but I'd still like to see them pickup a solid all-around young AA/AAA guy to fill the gap in the upper reaches of the farm system and be ready if BP or AG is injured

They need to re-sign Bergolla, he is showing some signs of life with the bat!

Also I might offer Pittsburgh Votto & Bray for Mike Gonzalez. It might be a little bit of a high price too pay but Gonzalez is nasty & only 28 (29 in May). Had a 2.37 ERA in 54 IP, w/ 64 K's, 31 BB's, 1 HR allowed and saved 24 out of 24 oppurtunities. The guy is in his prime and even an organization like Pittsburgh sees the value in this deal for them. Gonzalez is only going to get more expensive and soon, 4 yrs in the league already.

Jpup
12-03-2006, 01:34 AM
Krivsky's biggest blunder of this offseason (so far) has been not signing David Delluci. 2007 will be his year. Mark it down.

hey, that's my gimmick. :D

DannyB
12-03-2006, 08:32 AM
A set of Mickey ears and Eduardo Perez

Tom Servo
12-03-2006, 09:45 AM
I think he knows we need a big right handed bat (not necessarily the 1st base platoon guy), so I'll be vague and go with that.

Krusty
12-03-2006, 10:15 AM
I agree wiht your premise Krusty, but what about moving Junior? Krivsky mentioned something about doing things to prolong his career today. A move to the AL would allow him to DH. He may be easier to move now that he is down to two years on his contract.

As long as Junor has 10-5 rights, he controls the situation.

jojo
12-03-2006, 12:49 PM
I think it would be really difficult to convince a team to take on Jr's contract to play him at DH..... as far as positions go, DH has the greatest pool of potential players from which to draw from.... Also Griffey is a year older and is coming off a season where his VORP was only 16 and this at a position where replacement level is one of the lowest offensively.... DH has one of the highest replacement levels in the game....


Given there will always be much cheaper options and Griffey's production is no longer a certainty, the risk a team would assume by going with Griffey just doesn't make since IMHO...

Falls City Beer
12-03-2006, 06:35 PM
How will your opinion of Wayne change if he was to bring back nothing from the Meetings? Or will your opinion differ at all?

(I didn't want to make this a separate thread or poll.)

Caveat Emperor
12-03-2006, 06:46 PM
How will your opinion of Wayne change if he was to bring back nothing from the Meetings? Or will your opinion differ at all?

(I didn't want to make this a separate thread or poll.)

Depends -- nobody is privy to the kinds of deals that are being offered or not offered.

If there is nothing to be had, there's nothing to be had. Sometimes the deal you don't make is as important as the deal you do -- and just because the winter meetings end doesn't mean the dealing is done (see: Arroyo, Bronson).

Willy
12-03-2006, 06:48 PM
How will your opinion of Wayne change if he was to bring back nothing from the Meetings? Or will your opinion differ at all?

(I didn't want to make this a separate thread or poll.)


I don't think it will change at all. If there is one thing about Wayne, is you know he is trying. I don't think the market for the RH bat will come until Jan. or Feb.

pedro
12-03-2006, 06:57 PM
How will your opinion of Wayne change if he was to bring back nothing from the Meetings? Or will your opinion differ at all?

(I didn't want to make this a separate thread or poll.)

I'm more concerned about waht he does before opening day.

Jpup
12-03-2006, 07:36 PM
How will your opinion of Wayne change if he was to bring back nothing from the Meetings? Or will your opinion differ at all?

(I didn't want to make this a separate thread or poll.)

How will your opinion change of him if he brings back a middle of the rotation starter or a decent bat for a little of nothing? Will you still hate the guy?

edabbs44
12-03-2006, 07:53 PM
How will your opinion change of him if he brings back a middle of the rotation starter or a decent bat for a little of nothing? Will you still hate the guy?

Since I have the same view as FCB, I will answer this question. I seriously doubt he will get a middle of the rotation guy for "a little of nothing." And they need a hell of a lot more than a middle of the rotation guy or a decent bat. They need 2 middle of the rotation guys and a solid bat.

I said the same thing at the trading deadline last year. I think that when he leaves, Bob is going to tell him "Only the essentials Wayne, we don't have much money left." He will then return with a bunch of magazines, an orange foam cowboy hat and a paddleball like Lloyd Christmas.

WK hasn't done anything since early 2006 season to justify all the leeway this board has given him. And he has made plenty of moves. When he picked up garbage during the 2006 season, we were told that he's doing what he can. When someone brings up "the trade", we're told to let it go already. When the deadline went w/o any moves of note except putrid trades, we were told the market didn't allow him to make a worthy acquisition. When he was signing over the hill relievers and no-hit shortstops to multi-million dollar deals this winter, we were told that he is all about pitching and defense. Until he pulls something off which actually improves this team, my opinion of him will remain the same.

Jpup
12-03-2006, 08:04 PM
Since I have the same view as FCB, I will answer this question. I seriously doubt he will get a middle of the rotation guy for "a little of nothing." And they need a hell of a lot more than a middle of the rotation guy or a decent bat. They need 2 middle of the rotation guys and a solid bat.

I said the same thing at the trading deadline last year. I think that when he leaves, Bob is going to tell him "Only the essentials Wayne, we don't have much money left." He will then return with a bunch of magazines, an orange foam cowboy hat and a paddleball like Lloyd Christmas.

WK hasn't done anything since early 2006 season to justify all the leeway this board has given him. And he has made plenty of moves. When he picked up garbage during the 2006 season, we were told that he's doing what he can. When someone brings up "the trade", we're told to let it go already. When the deadline went w/o any moves of note except putrid trades, we were told the market didn't allow him to make a worthy acquisition. When he was signing over the hill relievers and no-hit shortstops to multi-million dollar deals this winter, we were told that he is all about pitching and defense. Until he pulls something off which actually improves this team, my opinion of him will remain the same.

You know why Wayne gets leeway on this board? He is a smart guy and he is willing to admit then he makes a mistake. He is competent. Rome wasn't built in a day.

jojo
12-03-2006, 08:06 PM
Lord, don't tease me. I want the Reds to sign him more than anything, but I've never allowed myself to believe it will actually happen. I have no idea what I would do if they signed him. It would be uberdramatic and probably illegal.


I don't understand this fascination with an overrated lefty who wants a 7 year commitment and IMHO is a trainwreck waiting to happen....

Why not make a two year run at a pitcher who is arguably the best arm on the market and ironically no one is talking about.... Pettitte....he's an inning eating lefty who has posted xFIPs at or below 3.50 each of the last three seasons.

TheGeneral
12-03-2006, 08:10 PM
I don't understand this fascination with an overrated lefty who wants a 7 year commitment and IMHO is a trainwreck waiting to happen....

Why not make a two year run at a pitcher who is arguably the best arm on the market and ironically no one is talking about.... Pettitte....he's an inning eating lefty who has posted xFIPs at or below 3.50 each of the last three seasons.

Because he will probably be asking for a four year deal minimum at at least 13 million a year.

Jpup
12-03-2006, 08:10 PM
I don't understand this fascination with an overrated lefty who wants a 7 year commitment and IMHO is a trainwreck waiting to happen....

Why not make a two year run at a pitcher who is arguably the best arm on the market and ironically no one is talking about.... Pettitte....he's an inning eating lefty who has posted xFIPs at or below 3.50 each of the last three seasons.

VP is a woman. I think it has more to do with her feelings on the way he looks instead of the way he pitches. understand?

excuse me if I'm way off base.

edabbs44
12-03-2006, 08:11 PM
You know why Wayne gets leeway on this board? He is a smart guy and he is willing to admit then he makes a mistake. He is competent. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Not sure how you define "competent." But going into the winter meetings saying that Milton and Lohse are virtually guaranteed a rotation spot, that is actually the definition of "incompetent." I know Milton has to be here b/c of his salary, but no one is holding a gun to his head for Lohse.

mth123
12-03-2006, 08:12 PM
I don't understand this fascination with an overrated lefty who wants a 7 year commitment and IMHO is a trainwreck waiting to happen....

Why not make a two year run at a pitcher who is arguably the best arm on the market and ironically no one is talking about.... Pettitte....he's an inning eating lefty who has posted xFIPs at or below 3.50 each of the last three seasons.

I agree about Zito. I think he would be a bad fit for the park.

I also like Pettitte but he has already made it clear that he wants to play in Houston or maybe go back to the Yankees or retire. He's not an option.

Jpup
12-03-2006, 08:13 PM
Not sure how you define "competent." But going into the winter meetings saying that Milton and Lohse are virtually guaranteed a rotation spot, that is actually the definition of "incompetent." I know Milton has to be here b/c of his salary, but no one is holding a gun to his head for Lohse.

You don't really know. Do you think that Wayne is going to show all of his cards before they are played? Don't get me wrong, he wasn't by a long shot, my first choice for GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some would lead us to believe. Has Lohse been given another contract that we haven't heard about? I'm missing something there.

TheGeneral
12-03-2006, 08:24 PM
A Closer (Mike Gonzalez preferably)
A CF (Willits)
A #3 Starter (Westbrook or Jennings)
Aaron Boone (Great 4/5/6 platoon)
An Adam Dunn trade if necessary (to fill other needs of the team)

jojo
12-03-2006, 08:36 PM
Because he will probably be asking for a four year deal minimum at at least 13 million a year.


I seriously doubt he wants to play another 4 years. He might be talked into two years...

TheGeneral
12-03-2006, 08:40 PM
Look for him to be making at least 13 million a year regardless of what you think. That's enough of a reason to make me not want him.

Jpup
12-03-2006, 08:44 PM
A Closer (Mike Gonzalez preferably)
A CF (Willits)
A #3 Starter (Westbrook or Jennings)
Aaron Boone (Great 4/5/6 platoon)
An Adam Dunn trade if necessary (to fill other needs of the team)


The Reds already have 2 centerfielders, but I am in the camp that Denorfia doesn't look to be more than a 4th outfielder. I hope I'm wrong. Mike Gonzalez would be great though.

jojo
12-03-2006, 08:49 PM
Look for him to be making at least 13 million a year regardless of what you think. That's enough of a reason to make me not want him.

Pettitte at $13M a year over 2 years would be an absolute steal....

I'll take two please :beerme:

jojo
12-03-2006, 08:51 PM
The Reds already have 2 centerfielders, but I am in the camp that Denorfia doesn't look to be more than a 4th outfielder.

I agree.

Barring a trade that effects the outfield, center should be divided between Freel/Denorfia and right should be divided between Griffey/Denorfia...

Falls City Beer
12-03-2006, 08:54 PM
How will your opinion change of him if he brings back a middle of the rotation starter or a decent bat for a little of nothing? Will you still hate the guy?

Not at all. I'll be thrilled. Just as I was with the Dunn extension and the Arroyo trade.

For the record, I think Wayne will make a deal at the Winter Meetings, probably more than one. I can't say I'm optimistic about them, but there it is. I only asked because I was genuinely curious if others would be made nervous by inactivity at the highwater mark of the offseason.

edabbs44
12-03-2006, 08:55 PM
You don't really know. Do you think that Wayne is going to show all of his cards before they are played? Don't get me wrong, he wasn't by a long shot, my first choice for GM, but I don't think he is as bad as some would lead us to believe. Has Lohse been given another contract that we haven't heard about? I'm missing something there.

Check out what Wayne said on this thread:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52948

You are right though...I don't know. I am going off what I have seen. And that is pretty much nothing. They could surprise me this week with a shocking acquisition, and I will then be happy. :) But I don't see it happening, which will make me sad. :(

Unless WK has a sick amount of money in play, he shouldn't be doing anything. AGon's contract is a debacle. Same with Stanton and Cormier. This team will not be in contention until more, larger moves are made or loads of prospects start coming through the system. And what's the point of dropping millions on these guys if they aren't going to be around when the team gets into contention condition? Just wasted money. These guys will bring the team from 70 to 75 wins. I would rather see WK spend like a crackhead during the draft and get the best player on the board each round, while picking up some million dollar bonus babies from the Dominican.

Krusty
12-03-2006, 08:59 PM
I don't think we have the second coming of Dan O'Brien. With that said, I also don't think we have the second coming of Jim Bowden. Want to compare Wayne K to? How about Twins Terry Ryan. Not flashy with the moves but ones that might seem small at the time of the deal but pays bigtime dividends.

Falls City Beer
12-03-2006, 09:01 PM
I don't think we have the second coming of Dan O'Brien. With that said, I also don't think we have the second coming of Jim Bowden. Want to compare Wayne K to? How about Twins Terry Ryan. Not flashy with the moves but ones that might seem small at the time of the deal but pays bigtime dividends.

With the exception of his Christian Guzman-esque pickup of Gonzalez, I truly, truly fail to see that comparison. A lame version of Brian Sabean, maybe, but his apple fell well far from Ryan, IMO.

deltachi8
12-03-2006, 09:03 PM
well, I am here at Disney for three more days and do have to stop at the Dolphin tomorrow, what me to drop any ideas off to Wayne?