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View Full Version : "MEL GIBSON'S" Apocalypto



WMR
12-04-2006, 12:02 AM
Surprising how proud they are of telling us roughly 10 times per commercial that this is MEL GIBSON'S Apocalypto... can that possibly help sell tickets?

The Baumer
12-04-2006, 01:52 AM
He's the only recognizable name attached to the project. I think he may have also written & directed it. :)

Cedric
12-04-2006, 02:07 AM
I'm going to watch it because it's Mel Gibson. I really like his work and it entertains me.

I've heard all about his idiotic statements also. It surprises me but most people in Hollywood have bothered me with ignorant statements. I don't let their personal life get in the way of my enjoyment or entertainment. I have to seperate some things.

Razor Shines
12-04-2006, 04:08 AM
I'm going to watch it because it's Mel Gibson. I really like his work and it entertains me.

I've heard all about his idiotic statements also. It surprises me but most people in Hollywood have bothered me with ignorant statements. I don't let their personal life get in the way of my enjoyment or entertainment. I have to seperate some things.

That's exactly how I feel. No matter what he does Braveheart and We Were Soldiers are still great movies. And I will probably go to see Apocalypto. As to the original question of why they are putting his name on it, I will say that if I didn't know he was attatched to it I probably wouldn't be considering seeing it, whatever I or anyone thinks of him he makes a good movie.

WMR
12-04-2006, 04:13 AM
Wow guess I'm the only one not willing to give money to a guy who is publicly anti-semitic. His drunken tirade was not his first instance of these 'types' of ideas... his father is a virulent holocaust denier... providing any sort of validation that behavior such as his should not be met with whatever repercussions available to the public is unacceptable, IMO.

LoganBuck
12-04-2006, 08:36 AM
Wow guess I'm the only one not willing to give money to a guy who is publicly anti-semitic. His drunken tirade was not his first instance of these 'types' of ideas... his father is a virulent holocaust denier... providing any sort of validation that behavior such as his should not be met with whatever repercussions available to the public is unacceptable, IMO.

If you knew half of what Hollywood entities actually believed you would probably only read cookbooks, and watch sports.

WMR
12-04-2006, 02:53 PM
Maybe so, but until they come out and say it publicly, and with the type of uninhindered hate that Gibson displayed, I'll hafta go with what I know for sure.

WMR
12-04-2006, 02:54 PM
And there's a big difference, IMO, between going to see a Russell Crowe movie, a guy generally regarded as being an ass to just about everybody versus the anti-semitic crap spewed forth from Gibson.

savafan
12-04-2006, 03:08 PM
Would you go see Michael Richard's Apocalypto?

paintmered
12-04-2006, 03:12 PM
Personally, I don't care about who made what movie.

If it's good, I'll watch it. If it's not, I won't.

westofyou
12-04-2006, 03:28 PM
And there's a big difference, IMO, between going to see a Russell Crowe movie, a guy generally regarded as being an ass to just about everybody versus the anti-semitic crap spewed forth from Gibson.

Film is art and often the politics of the artist are a problem, but none the less it is art. I went to Film School, we watched everything, including Riefenstahl and numerous Russian propaganda films. Light and shadow is a great way to tell a story.

registerthis
12-04-2006, 03:32 PM
Would you go see Michael Richard's Apocalypto?

Sure. That might be hilarious. In an unintentional sort of way.

WMR
12-04-2006, 03:41 PM
There's been a bunch of discussion already on the topic, but I don't find the Richards and Gibson situations analogous in the slightest.

I've watched Roman Polanski films, and plenty of other films by artists who have done "bad things," but, maybe because this recent event is so fresh in my mind, and the hate towards Judaism by so much of the world is an integral part of their countries and their foreign policy... I'm just not willing to give my money to a guy who hates Jews and was raised by a Jew-hater and holocaust denier.

registerthis
12-04-2006, 04:33 PM
I'm just not willing to give my money to a guy who hates Jews and was raised by a Jew-hater and holocaust denier.

Not that this in any way excuses Gibson's behavior, but how much should we reasonably expect Gibson to deviate from a doctrine that has been bred into him since he was a young boy? Our upbringings play a substantial role in the way we view the world and those in it. Those raised in racist and/or prejudicial households are likely to carry at least some degree of those feelings into adulthood.

The Baumer
12-04-2006, 04:45 PM
Obviously you feel very passionate about Mel Gibson and know enough about him based on newspaper clippings and Entertainment Tonight segments to make a clear judgement of his character. However, some of us aren't as passionate about guessing celebrity's true feelings and would just like to watch a decent flick.

WMR
12-04-2006, 06:15 PM
Obviously you feel very passionate about Mel Gibson and know enough about him based on newspaper clippings and Entertainment Tonight segments to make a clear judgement of his character. However, some of us aren't as passionate about guessing celebrity's true feelings and would just like to watch a decent flick.

No, I base what I think about Mel Gibson based upon documentaries I've seen produced on him, his father's teachings and public comments, and the police report describing in detail exactly what he said about those of the Jewish faith.

Save the condescending attitude, please.

WMR
12-04-2006, 06:16 PM
Not that this in any way excuses Gibson's behavior, but how much should we reasonably expect Gibson to deviate from a doctrine that has been bred into him since he was a young boy? Our upbringings play a substantial role in the way we view the world and those in it. Those raised in racist and/or prejudicial households are likely to carry at least some degree of those feelings into adulthood.

Agreed 100%. Gibson's father is an anti-semite and that is undeniably why he is an anti-semite as well.

Falls City Beer
12-04-2006, 06:32 PM
Agreed 100%. Gibson's father is an anti-semite and that is undeniably why he is an anti-semite as well.

A guy with Gibson's money has a ton of free will. He simply chooses to hate Jews. Drunk and sober. His politics, his preachings, his actions, his films--not simply his words--make him an anti-Semitic. That's what separates him from a guy like Richards.

Richards talked the talk; Gibson walks the walk.

vaticanplum
12-04-2006, 06:50 PM
If Mel Gibson made the remarks he's made and made Hollywood blockbusters, I might be able to separate the man from the work and see his movies if they interested me. It's the nature of his recent work that mixes it all up for me. I would have a hard time taking a movie preaching Christian values seriously given some of the things he has said. These things are directly related. That's just my personal take.

WMR
12-04-2006, 07:55 PM
If Mel Gibson made the remarks he's made and made Hollywood blockbusters, I might be able to separate the man from the work and see his movies if they interested me. It's the nature of his recent work that mixes it all up for me. I would have a hard time taking a movie preaching Christian values seriously given some of the things he has said. These things are directly related. That's just my personal take.

Excellent and understandable point of view, VP.

WMR
12-04-2006, 07:57 PM
A guy with Gibson's money has a ton of free will. He simply chooses to hate Jews. Drunk and sober. His politics, his preachings, his actions, his films--not simply his words--make him an anti-Semitic. That's what separates him from a guy like Richards.

Richards talked the talk; Gibson walks the walk.


http://www.impawards.com/2006/posters/preaching_to_the_choir.jpg

Speak it brother FCB!!

:laugh:

wally post
12-04-2006, 08:27 PM
I learned a LONG time ago that a person's personal habits or beliefs has nothing to do with his or her's art. If some friends of mine say that this movie is great, then I'll see it. I never saw the last one he made - not a soul that I knew spoke of it.

Falls City Beer
12-04-2006, 09:21 PM
I learned a LONG time ago that a person's personal habits or beliefs has nothing to do with his or her's art. If some friends of mine say that this movie is great, then I'll see it. I never saw the last one he made - not a soul that I knew spoke of it.

I agree largely. But I happen to draw a line between art and propaganda (yes, it's fuzzy; some propaganda contains art; some art contains political message). Propaganda I will watch, and propaganda I will read, but out of a natural curiosity, a thirst for learning. Doesn't mean I'll viscerally "enjoy" it, appreciate, respect it either as a message or mode of entertainment.

Now take, for instance, the knowledge that T.S. Eliot was an avowed anti-Semite--still doesn't keep me from understanding that he wrote some of the most important poetry and criticism of the last century.

So it isn't so much the matter that a set of beliefs infects the art per se, but that if there isn't art, the product of said individual moves from bad to odious.

The Baumer
12-04-2006, 09:21 PM
Save the condescending attitude, please.

Sorry, I didn't know this was the 'Agree with WilyMoROCKS or Get Out' thread.

GAC
12-04-2006, 09:40 PM
If you knew half of what Hollywood entities actually believed you would probably only read cookbooks, and watch sports.

Exactly.

I don't agree with Scientology, but it doesn't stop me from seeing a Tom Cruise movie.

Most of Hollywood holds views that IMO are pretty out of touch with main stream America; but it doesn't prevent me seeing various movies because of personal ideologies.

Falls City Beer
12-04-2006, 09:50 PM
Of course, all this presupposes that what Hollywood produces is art.

WMR
12-04-2006, 10:25 PM
Sorry, I didn't know this was the 'Agree with WilyMoROCKS or Get Out' thread.

Ummm, I maintain politeness--or at least civility--towards EVERYONE on this board and I've never, not once, castigated someone for disagreeing with me.

Your comment that I must have formed my opinions on this subject from trash television was a condescending remark and I did not appreciate it.

The Baumer
12-04-2006, 10:46 PM
Ummm, I maintain politeness--or at least civility--towards EVERYONE on this board and I've never, not once, castigated someone for disagreeing with me.

Your comment that I must have formed my opinions on this subject from trash television was a condescending remark and I did not appreciate it.

But you did form your opinion from what you heard on tv and in the news. That was the point that I was trying to make. That no matter how much you think you know a celebrity, you never really KNOW them.

We know Gibson's actions and have read about him, but we've never watched him interact in day-to-day life and we have no way of knowing how he truly feels. Perhaps he knows how screwed up his mind/upbringing was, and it is a personal battle for him. Perhaps he doesn't care and openly hates Jews at the dinner table. Until we get invited over to his mansion, we will never know for sure.

So next time you let Mel Gibson or another perosn you've never met in your life control which movies you watch, consider the idea that it's just a movie, Unless Mel Gibson and his production company are funding the Palestine Young Terrorist After-school program, I won't worry too much about paying 10 dollars to watch a film that has nothing to do with Mel Gibson's DUI.

Falls City Beer
12-04-2006, 10:55 PM
But you did form your opinion from what you heard on tv and in the news. That was the point that I was trying to make. That no matter how much you think you know a celebrity, you never really KNOW them.

We know Gibson's actions and have read about him, but we've never watched him interact in day-to-day life and we have no way of knowing how he truly feels. Perhaps he knows how screwed up his mind/upbringing was, and it is a personal battle for him. Perhaps he doesn't care and openly hates Jews at the dinner table. Until we get invited over to his mansion, we will never know for sure.

So next time you let Mel Gibson or another perosn you've never met in your life control which movies you watch, consider the idea that it's just a movie, Unless Mel Gibson and his production company are funding the Palestine Young Terrorist After-school program, I won't worry too much about paying 10 dollars to watch a film that has nothing to do with Mel Gibson's DUI.


Yes, poor complex misunderstood Mel.

LoganBuck
12-04-2006, 11:45 PM
Of course, all this presupposes that what Hollywood produces is art.

Isn't that the truth!

WMR
12-04-2006, 11:46 PM
But you did form your opinion from what you heard on tv and in the news. That was the point that I was trying to make. That no matter how much you think you know a celebrity, you never really KNOW them.

We know Gibson's actions and have read about him, but we've never watched him interact in day-to-day life and we have no way of knowing how he truly feels. Perhaps he knows how screwed up his mind/upbringing was, and it is a personal battle for him. Perhaps he doesn't care and openly hates Jews at the dinner table. Until we get invited over to his mansion, we will never know for sure.

So next time you let Mel Gibson or another perosn you've never met in your life control which movies you watch, consider the idea that it's just a movie, Unless Mel Gibson and his production company are funding the Palestine Young Terrorist After-school program, I won't worry too much about paying 10 dollars to watch a film that has nothing to do with Mel Gibson's DUI.

Did you read all of my posts? I specifically refuted that allegation. The police report and documentaries wherein what Mel said while under the influence as basically a verbatim parroting of what his dad has said time and again formed the basis for my opinions and statements.

The Baumer
12-05-2006, 05:32 AM
Did you read all of my posts? I specifically refuted that allegation. The police report and documentaries wherein what Mel said while under the influence as basically a verbatim parroting of what his dad has said time and again formed the basis for my opinions and statements.

Where did you watch these documentaries? Was it on tv?

Where did you read the police report? In a newspaper or on a news website?

I'm not saying your sources are inaccurate, I'm saying that you are making a strong, passionate opinion on the psychological makeup of someone you've never met or interacted with.

I don't know. Maybe it is just me, but before I start making bold public statements about a person's character or beliefs, I like to make sure I have at least seen or spoken to them at least once in my life.


Yes, poor complex misunderstood Mel.

That's not what I said, but you already knew that. :)

savafan
12-05-2006, 11:18 AM
I'm sorry...when did Gibson make a movie that showed his hatred toward Jews?

Ltlabner
12-05-2006, 11:54 AM
I'm sorry...when did Gibson make a movie that showed his hatred toward Jews?

I think some people said that his portrayal of the Jews in the Passion of the Christ movie was anti-semtic because they beat, tortured and crucified Jesus. Seemed very odd to me because based on the text of the bible, that is what happened.

But I never saw the movie, and can't remember if that was exactly the complaint so that's just my take on what I heard.

savafan
12-05-2006, 12:10 PM
I think some people said that his portrayal of the Jews in the Passion of the Christ movie was anti-semtic because they beat, tortured and crucified Jesus. Seemed very odd to me because based on the text of the bible, that is what happened.

But I never saw the movie, and can't remember if that was exactly the complaint so that's just my take on what I heard.

Well, if that's the case, then Steven Spielberg is anti-German.

westofyou
12-05-2006, 12:15 PM
Well, if that's the case, then Steven Spielberg is anti-German.

Anti Pirate too.... don't forget Hook.

savafan
12-05-2006, 12:20 PM
Nothing to do with this thread, but I just noticed that WOY's rep is 2006, and the year is also in fact 2006...which I happened to find funny...

Okay, I'm sorry, that was my retarded post for the year.



Um...the previous statement does not at all mean that I am anti-mentally handicapped. I'd just like to point that out.

Dom Heffner
12-05-2006, 01:50 PM
Okay, I'm sorry, that was my retarded post for the year.



Um...the previous statement does not at all mean that I am anti-mentally handicapped. I'd just like to point that out.

BUt it could mean you have something against people who are mentally handicapped. If you ever made a movie, I wouldn't go see it. :)

paintmered
12-05-2006, 05:34 PM
BUt it could mean you have something against people who are mentally handicapped. If you ever made a movie, I wouldn't go see it. :)

Maybe he's Petarded? ;)

http://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/0/4/R/fGuyPetarded_v2_72.jpg

pedro
12-05-2006, 06:34 PM
I will say that from the commercials it "looks" pretty cool.

MWM
12-05-2006, 06:47 PM
I think Spielberg's movies would make him anti-Nazi, not anti-German, and that's a position I'm sure he'd gladly agree to.

vaticanplum
12-05-2006, 07:07 PM
For the record, I'm not too keen on Steven Spielberg these days either.

I don't react well to any hint of preachiness. that's not to say that I don't think art has something to say; quite the contrary, I think it's usually important that it does. But the whole point of art is that the moral or point or thesis or what have you is cloaked in something else. If you just have a point, I present to you another great tool, language. then feel free to bang me over the head with it all you want. But if you go to the length of making a movie (or much else), then I want preachiness to be, I dunno, in the story, in the art itself. It's hard to explain. But Gibson and Spielberg have developed such personas and crusaded such causes -- which is fine -- but their work is so tied up with all of that that I run screaming from the preachiness. I don't think I would like them, and I don't care enough about them to try to prove myself wrong.

Incidentally, though I haven't seen all their movies, art typically suffers when it's overtaken by a cause in my opinion.

Falls City Beer
12-05-2006, 08:06 PM
Incidentally, though I haven't seen all their movies, art typically suffers when it's overtaken by a cause in my opinion.

Not a big fan of Restoration satires? :)

MWM
12-05-2006, 08:39 PM
I don't react well to any hint of preachiness.

That describes me perfectly, even when I'm in agreement with the ideologies being preached. And Spielberg's last movie, which I did see, fits well into this category, especially after doing some reading up on the actual events. And while I agree with his overall take on the events, he clearly had no interest in telling a balanced story. That annoys me.

GAC
12-05-2006, 09:30 PM
That describes me perfectly, even when I'm in agreement with the ideologies being preached. And Spielberg's last movie, which I did see, fits well into this category, especially after doing some reading up on the actual events. And while I agree with his overall take on the events, he clearly had no interest in telling a balanced story. That annoys me.

Wasn't his last movie Monster House (which was a collaboration)? :lol:

I'm assuming you're referring to Munich? I liked the movie, but don't know how factual it was.

vaticanplum
12-05-2006, 11:56 PM
Not a big fan of Restoration satires? :)

Oh, crap. Well, there are exceptions if they're, like, SUPPOSED to be that way. Or something.

Falls City Beer
12-06-2006, 12:01 AM
Oh, crap. Well, there are exceptions if they're, like, SUPPOSED to be that way. Or something.

I'm giving you a hard time. You're talking about propaganda, and I'm talking about satire--though they both have political ends, their means are remarkably different.

Yachtzee
12-06-2006, 12:03 PM
Anti Pirate too.... don't forget Hook.

I wish I could.

Yachtzee
12-06-2006, 12:50 PM
I'm not a big fan of preachiness either.

As far as Mel goes, I'm not one to attribute the acts of a father onto a son. Yes, he said some stuff that shows an affinity to his dad's anti-semitism, but until I see something that says that Mel is actively supporting hate groups, I'm not going to boycott his work. On the other hand, I will look at his films a bit more critically and question his motives if his films seem to portray a particular "Weltanshauung." In fact I think that, in light of his recent drunken rantings, it may well be important to see his film and discuss it. If you want to combat an irrational point-of-view that someone holds, isn't it better to bring it out into the open and shine the light of critical thought and reason upon it?

On the other hand, WilyMo brought up Roman Polanski. I have no problem boycotting his work. This is a man who has admitted to getting a 13-year-old girl drunk and having sex with her, and then has fled the country to avoid a jail sentence. Other than being unable to travel to the US or Britain, he seems to have suffered no repercussions for his act. I just can't abide by that.

flyer85
12-06-2006, 12:53 PM
A guy with Gibson's money has a ton of free will ... Drunk and sober. I once heard said that nothing ever comes out of drunk mouth that wasn't aleady there in the first place.

flyer85
12-06-2006, 12:56 PM
I don't react well to any hint of preachiness. It's why I didn't enjoy Saving Private Ryan.

Yachtzee
12-06-2006, 01:05 PM
It's why I didn't enjoy Saving Private Ryan.

You know, I enjoyed Saving Privat Ryan, but the scene at the cemetary at the end was just too over-the-top for me. I didn't like it at all. I also can't stand to watch the end of A League of Their Own and *61. However, I found the end of Schindler's List to be very poignant. There was no weapy dialog. Instead Spielberg chose to show us the survivors quietly paying their respects to the man who saved them.

Cedric
12-08-2006, 11:21 PM
I went and watched this movie tonight. I loved it. It's extremely violent though.

I love the way Gibson sets up the story and his ability to draw out emotion from every character, no matter how unimportant they seem to the movie. I thought it was fantastic.

GAC
12-09-2006, 11:54 AM
I heard that it's pretty gory. In fact, the goriest one yet from Gibson.