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GriffeyFan
12-05-2006, 06:30 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2685697

2:39 a.m., from Amy Nelson

Mark Loretta has been offered a two-year, $6 million contract from the Cincinnati Reds, according to a baseball source.

icehole3
12-05-2006, 06:39 AM
If true. Let me be the first to say, this money couldve been used on a starting pitcher. Call me crazy but this move stinks, we dont need this guy after signing a SS.

redsfan4445
12-05-2006, 06:39 AM
why????? the Reds already have their infield.. we need power outfield bats along with starters!!!

Reds4Life
12-05-2006, 06:57 AM
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, why is this necessary? We already signed Gonzo, so what's the point here?

RANDY IN INDY
12-05-2006, 07:01 AM
That is very puzzling if true. Don't see a need or a fit, there.

NCRed
12-05-2006, 07:04 AM
Can he play first base ??

Tom Servo
12-05-2006, 07:19 AM
Perhaps BP could be traded?

Redny
12-05-2006, 07:22 AM
Very odd. If true there must be more going on than this.

Heath
12-05-2006, 07:26 AM
There HAS to be a corresponding move here. It is 2:30am in the morning, maybe Wayne hit the bar this AM a little hard.

Heath
12-05-2006, 07:30 AM
Can he play first base ??

Has 171 games under his belt at 1st base -

But he .OPS'd a whopping . 706 last year. And he's 34. I think he's still making hay after his monster 2004 in San Diego, nonetheless.

RedLegSuperStar
12-05-2006, 07:34 AM
Perhaps BP could be traded?

That was my first guess. Maybe the Reds and Tigers are revisiting talks of Dunn & Phillips for Bonderman

redsmetz
12-05-2006, 07:36 AM
Can he play first base ??

He looks like the new Rich Aurilia:


Position Total 2B* 731 1341 1963 39 460 .988 .983 4.52 4.35 593 5134.0
SS* 328 419 770 21 182 .983 .969 3.62 3.93 104 910.0
1B* 171 1071 71 8 105 .993 .993 6.68 7.87 11 96.0
3B* 171 106 226 11 25 .968 .955 1.94 2.26 89 761.3
DH 13 Games not counted in Overall Total below
LF 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 1.40
P* 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.50 0 1.0

Note that inning pitcher - the record shows 1 Walk, 2 K's - no ER's.

And he's got family here. My son's 3rd grade teacher was related to him somehow. Plus Loretta's my mother and my grandmother's name - so I have to like it!

Plus, the money is minimal in today's market. That contract isn't going to keep us from getting a starting pitcher if one comes down the pike.

steig
12-05-2006, 07:37 AM
Perhaps BP could be traded?

I would agree that Philips could be traded if this is true. BP's trade value has never been higher and despite what many of us hope he may not be able to repeat his performance in 2007. A lot of people were very big on signing Lopez to a long term contract after he did well in 2005 then look at how he did for the Reds in 2006. If this leads to a move that brings in more offense or a good starting pitcher then i'm all for it. If not then it would have to look like a very bad move at this point in time.

RedLegSuperStar
12-05-2006, 07:40 AM
Plus, the money is minimal in today's market. That contract isn't going to keep us from getting a starting pitcher if one comes down the pike.

I agree.. it's almost the remaining contract left of one Jason LaRue

fewfirstchoice
12-05-2006, 07:50 AM
There has to be a trade brewing for Cincy to sign Loretta.If we can make a trade for a pitcher and sign Loretta to play second,I would be fine with that.

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 08:03 AM
Plus, the money is minimal in today's market. That contract isn't going to keep us from getting a starting pitcher if one comes down the pike.

Sure the money is minimal. But add it to Weathers, Stanton, Cormier and Gonzalez, and it's starting to get ridiculous.

I think Wayne is off his rocker, to be quite honest.

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 08:04 AM
There has to be a trade brewing for Cincy to sign Loretta.If we can make a trade for a pitcher and sign Loretta to play second,I would be fine with that.

So we'd rather get an older, more expensive player to replace Phillips? Not sure if I follow here. This team might look like the Twins did to open the season in 2005. Is Batista available?

Redus
12-05-2006, 08:06 AM
wow didnt see this coming after we signed gonzo. Perhaps he's the first base platoon, give the middle guys a day off guy, Aurilia role ...but I wonder also if Brandons on the move...that would suck as I like the kid. You're correct though his trade value is maxed right now and if Bonderman or someones coming than me rikey. me rikey very much!!!!

Redsnake
12-05-2006, 08:10 AM
Didn't the Reds discuss or have Ed E. shag balls in right field for a look see?

Loretta could play 3rd and EE plays the outfield. Just a thought.

wheels
12-05-2006, 08:16 AM
I'm sick of justifying these moves.

Every time Wayne brings someone in, I think "Well, there HAS to be another move to go along with this", and there never really is. Oh there will be other moves, but nothing that would aleveate the confusion about this signing. He never seems to move in a discernable direction. Sign this guy, trade these guys for more bullpen arms....It's making my head spin.

I've been reluctant to swing the hammer on Wayne thus far, mainly because I'm sick of not liking Reds GM's, but my patience is being tested now.

If Wayne isn't trading Phillips, this move makes no sense at all. Does anyone really think Loretta would sign as a bench player? I certainly don't.

I think we're being Krivskyed again.

That team has been a mish mash of mismatched parts since last July, and in this offseason, he's done nothing to clear it up.

Well, they do have a starting SS now. There's one, I guess.

Oh yeah, and now we get to watch Jerry Narron try to fit it all together.

It's gonna look a lot like that BBQ pit Homer Simpson tried to build.

redsmetz
12-05-2006, 08:27 AM
Sure the money is minimal. But add it to Weathers, Stanton, Cormier and Gonzalez, and it's starting to get ridiculous.

I think Wayne is off his rocker, to be quite honest.

Of course you think Wayne's off his rocker. So does a quarter of the folks on Redszone.

As I said in my earlier post, I think Cormier is a great candidate to be sent somewhere, even if it's just a couple of minor leaguers. And I'm not one who thinks this means Phillips might be moved. I think it's accurate to see Loretta as filling the role Aurilia did - jack of all trades, particularly the right handed compliment to Hatteberg. If it makes someone more likely to get moved, I think it's Ryan Freel (and I'm not advocating that - it just a hunch).

klw
12-05-2006, 08:30 AM
Maybe the offer was made before the Reds signed Gonzalez. There is nothing in the article saying the offer is still active.

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 08:31 AM
Of course you think Wayne's off his rocker. So does a quarter of the folks on Redszone.

As I said in my earlier post, I think Cormier is a great candidate to be sent somewhere, even if it's just a couple of minor leaguers. And I'm not one who thinks this means Phillips might be moved. I think it's accurate to see Loretta as filling the role Aurilia did - jack of all trades, particularly the right handed compliment to Hatteberg. If it makes someone more likely to get moved, I think it's Ryan Freel (and I'm not advocating that - it just a hunch).

See Wheels' post. Exactly how I feel.

I'm starting to really believe that WK has no future plan for this team. The team is getting older and older.

NJReds
12-05-2006, 08:44 AM
Mark Loretta has been offered a two-year, $6 million contract from the Cincinnati Reds, according to a baseball source.


I wonder if "baseball source" isn't Loretta's agent trying to dredge up interest for his client. This makes no sense to me.

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 08:51 AM
I wonder if "baseball source" isn't Loretta's agent trying to dredge up interest for his client. This makes no sense to me.

That's Wayne's MO, isn't it?

flyer85
12-05-2006, 08:54 AM
Has 171 games under his belt at 1st base -

But he .OPS'd a whopping . 706 last year. And he's 34. I think he's still making hay after his monster 2004 in San Diego, nonetheless.He must be high on the scrappiness factor.

flyer85
12-05-2006, 08:55 AM
Didn't the Reds discuss or have Ed E. shag balls in right field for a look see?

Loretta could play 3rd and EE plays the outfield. Just a thought.except Loretta has nowhere near enough bat to be useful as a 3b.

RBA
12-05-2006, 08:59 AM
I rather spend the money on Loretta Lynn.

lollipopcurve
12-05-2006, 08:59 AM
If the Reds are pulling out all the stops to get Bonderman (or even another starter, like Robertson), it's likely a SS upgrade for Detroit will be required (I think they want to move Guillen off the position). Either Gonzalez or Phillips would accomplish that.

NJReds
12-05-2006, 09:02 AM
If the Reds are pulling out all the stops to get Bonderman (or even another starter, like Robertson), it's likely a SS upgrade for Detroit will be required (I think they want to move Guillen off the position). Either Gonzalez or Phillips would accomplish that.

Or if there's any truth to the Freel for Linebrink proposal, the Reds would probably want a backup IF with some experience.

Chip R
12-05-2006, 09:06 AM
I rather spend the money on Loretta Lynn.


Now she's scrappy.

M2
12-05-2006, 09:08 AM
This one just baffles me. I can't imagine Loretta's looking to be a fill-in player and the Reds have the two positions he plays manned by talented youngsters.

Among other things, it undermines the value of the cheap production the Reds were getting from those positions (e.g. not having to spend much cash there, thus freeing it up to be spent elsewhere).

I'm really hoping this one turns out to be a wayward rumor.

Spring~Fields
12-05-2006, 09:09 AM
Perhaps he is looking to improve his bench and have someone that can be a backup for the infielders when guys need a day off or have an injury.

lollipopcurve
12-05-2006, 09:09 AM
the Reds would probably want a backup IF with some experience

Castro and Olmedo are around. I don't see them throwing 6MM at Loretta to be a back up. My guess is that it would precipitate a trade of Phillips or Gonzalez, perhaps in a package for pitching.

Red Leader
12-05-2006, 09:23 AM
I rather spend the money on Loretta Lynn.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Nice.

Redus
12-05-2006, 09:43 AM
I rather spend the money on Loretta Lynn.

hmmmm...can she pitch?:thumbup:

paulrichjr
12-05-2006, 09:44 AM
I'm sick of justifying these moves.

Every time Wayne brings someone in, I think "Well, there HAS to be another move to go along with this", and there never really is. Oh there will be other moves, but nothing that would aleveate the confusion about this signing. He never seems to move in a discernable direction. Sign this guy, trade these guys for more bullpen arms....It's making my head spin.


My feeling exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. The guy is nuts and it won't be long we will be wishing for the good old days of DanO and JimBo. I feel sick.

Johnny Footstool
12-05-2006, 09:51 AM
It's gonna look a lot like that BBQ pit Homer Simpson tried to build.

Or "Failed Shelving Unit with Stupid Stuck Chainsaw and Applesauce".

Honestly, I don't mind having Loretta on board as a utility man. $3 million is pretty expensive for one, but Loretta isn't bad, and Castellini seems willing to write $3 million checks like Courtney Love's doctor writes Percoset prescriptions, so if that's all Krivsky has planned, I'm not opposed.

If it's part of some Wile E. Coyote-esque scheme to trade Dunn and Phillips for Jeremy Bonderman, my subsequent tirade will be long, painful, and ultimately futile.

Kc61
12-05-2006, 09:51 AM
I guess some folks would rather have the power of a Nevin or a Craig Wilson from the right side. Loretta is a very good ballplayer who would platoon at first and play some infield. Don't know if he plays the corners in the outfield, but could play some there too. He is like Aurilia, less power, better defensively. He is a right handed Hatteberg, but better defensively.

Krivsky just doesn't like high strikeout hitters, particularly when he has Dunn on the team. Loretta is Kriv's type of player.

I would love to add Loretta to this team, but, of course, only if some pitching is coming as well. Certainly another starting pitcher is the number one priority.

traderumor
12-05-2006, 09:52 AM
Just to clarify wheels and paulrichjr, this is a RUMOR.

Sincerely,

Traderumor

Heath
12-05-2006, 09:56 AM
If the Reds are pulling out all the stops to get Bonderman (or even another starter, like Robertson), it's likely a SS upgrade for Detroit will be required (I think they want to move Guillen off the position). Either Gonzalez or Phillips would accomplish that.

Craig Monroe's available.

(BTW - Before I get too deep in this, I hate the idea of trading Dunn. I hate it)

So - Dunn, Cormier, & Phillips head to Detroit. The Reds get Bonderman, Monroe, & Colby Lewis.

I don't know about that. It seems very "meh" to me.

Roy Tucker
12-05-2006, 09:58 AM
I hope its just a rumor too.

Last year, it seemed that WK was just acquiring talent wherever he could without caring much about roster makeup. I gave him a pass since he was in a tough GM spot and was doing the best he could.

But this season, I expect him to put together a roster that has some semblence of cohesion and rationality to it. A Rube Goldberg mish-mosh of a roster ain't going to hack it for 2007, at least for me (like anyone cares).

Red Leader
12-05-2006, 10:04 AM
As far as OFers go, Ryan Church of the Nats is still available, and cheap.

Johnny Footstool
12-05-2006, 10:07 AM
As far as OFers go, Ryan Church of the Nats is still available, and cheap.

Yeah, and if the deal doesn't work out, Krivsky could always claim Church was hurt and the Nats failed to disclose it...

IslandRed
12-05-2006, 10:24 AM
If there's anything to this, what it says to me is that they liked the mix with Aurilia. With Aurilia not coming back because he could get a full-time job elsewhere, they're probably looking for another guy who could fill that role.

It's interesting because most teams carry two backup infielders, usually a MI guy and CI guy. The Reds seem to like carrying two guys who can play anywhere, and one's the offense guy and the other's the defense guy.

The downside is that if Loretta didn't hit then it would drag down the first-base platoon (unless Hatty's platoon partner would be some yet-unsigned 1B/OF type like Craig Wilson). The upside is it would be one more guy between Juan Castro and a starting job in case of injuries.

Doc. Scott
12-05-2006, 10:27 AM
Just to clarify wheels and paulrichjr, this is a RUMOR.

Sincerely,

Traderumor

Yeah, really. Since when was ESPN the arbiter of truthiness?

NJReds
12-05-2006, 10:33 AM
Yeah, really. Since when was ESPN the arbiter of truthiness?

FWIW...the proposed Pirates/Rockies/Cubs 3-way is an ESPN special...

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 10:37 AM
If there's anything to this, what it says to me is that they liked the mix with Aurilia. With Aurilia not coming back because he could get a full-time job elsewhere, they're probably looking for another guy who could fill that role.

It's interesting because most teams carry two backup infielders, usually a MI guy and CI guy. The Reds seem to like carrying two guys who can play anywhere, and one's the offense guy and the other's the defense guy.

The downside is that if Loretta didn't hit then it would drag down the first-base platoon (unless Hatty's platoon partner would be some yet-unsigned 1B/OF type like Craig Wilson). The upside is it would be one more guy between Juan Castro and a starting job in case of injuries.

And the downside is we are spreading money around on older relievers and utility men, while the everyday lineup and rotation is still hurting.

Edd Roush
12-05-2006, 10:39 AM
Well, he does get on base like a bandit. While I see no room for him in the Reds' future, he certainly does get on base with a high frequency. Too bad he hasn't hit for decent power since '04. If he wasn't 34, I would say this is a case of buying low.

westofyou
12-05-2006, 10:39 AM
Yeah, really. Since when was ESPN the arbiter of truthiness?

No doubt.

Will Carrol had this tidbit in his column.



So far, Wayne Krivsky's not making friends. "He's signing guys no one wants and pushing the bar up." I can't print the rest of the quote from an NL official.

So no one wanted Gonzalez?

No wanted Stanton or Weathers?

Funny how they all played last year and were going to play this year.

No one wants Sammy Sosa, someone wanted those other guys....maybe not for 5 million for 2 years, but it's hardly a Mark Davis deal.

Isn't it funny that these middle relief contracts are "pushing" the market up and what the Cubs have done hasn't?

RichRed
12-05-2006, 10:43 AM
Isn't it funny that these middle relief contracts are "pushing" the market up and what the Cubs have done hasn't?

Because how dare the little ol' Reds sign players when they should just let the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers have them. The nerve.

NJReds
12-05-2006, 10:51 AM
So no one wanted Gonzalez?

No wanted Stanton or Weathers?

Funny how they all played last year and were going to play this year.


Well, at least one other team wanted Weathers...



Weathers took less pay to stay
BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. - In the end, it came down to a chance to win and lifestyle for David Weathers. The 37-year-old right-hander could have made more money elsewhere.

"The last two years of my career I wanted to play for a team with a chance to win," Weathers said from his home in Loretto, Tenn. "I was also looking at the convenience of playing close to home. That outweighed the money. I left money on the table."

Weathers agreed to a two-year, $5 million deal with the Reds.

"It's a done deal," he said. "I just have to take a physical."

Weathers likely will pass. He went 4-4 with 3.54 ERA with the Reds last year. He appeared in 67 games and recorded a team-high 12 saves.

Weathers explored free agency. He reportedly had an offer from San Francisco.

"The Reds needed to know," he said. "I felt it was the right fit for me."

westofyou
12-05-2006, 10:53 AM
Because how dare the little ol' Reds sign players when they should just let the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers have them. The nerve.

Yep, and every time the Reds sign someone that isn't a starter be prepared to hear the fans who spend their time counting the payroll make noise.

The din has been louder then usual lately.

Cedric
12-05-2006, 10:53 AM
No doubt.

Will Carrol had this tidbit in his column.



So no one wanted Gonzalez?

No wanted Stanton or Weathers?

Funny how they all played last year and were going to play this year.

No one wants Sammy Sosa, someone wanted those other guys....maybe not for 5 million for 2 years, but it's hardly a Mark Davis deal.

Isn't it funny that these middle relief contracts are "pushing" the market up and what the Cubs have done hasn't?

That is the most absurd thing I have ever read. Mike Stanton, Alex Gonzalez, and David Weathers are pushing the market up?

Hopefully that isn't someone from the Angels, Dodgers, or Red Sox.

jojo
12-05-2006, 10:55 AM
So we'd rather get an older, more expensive player to replace Phillips? Not sure if I follow here. This team might look like the Twins did to open the season in 2005. Is Batista available?

I don't really get it at all in a vacuum.....but lets hope there is a domino chain that we aren't privy too...

But I will say this..... so much for upgrading the defense as a top priority.... I think the 100 year old oak tree in my back yard has more range than Loretta... :cool:

jojo
12-05-2006, 10:57 AM
Craig Monroe's available.

(BTW - Before I get too deep in this, I hate the idea of trading Dunn. I hate it)

So - Dunn, Cormier, & Phillips head to Detroit. The Reds get Bonderman, Monroe, & Colby Lewis.

I don't know about that. It seems very "meh" to me.

Especially from Detroit's point of view....

jojo
12-05-2006, 11:02 AM
Yeah, really. Since when was ESPN the arbiter of truthiness?

Absolutely! ESPN should be ashamed about how they behaved during the trading deadline last season..... I think they simply make things up sometimes... or at least they aren't very critical of their sources....

Its more important that they get you to watch than they get it right...

RedsManRick
12-05-2006, 11:07 AM
Loretta's line vL the last three years: .312/.401/.431 (70 BB to 36 SO). Given that he can back up 2B as well, not a bad guy to have around.

Seems to me that Wayne is going the route of slightly overpaying a lot of guys, but having depth from which he can deal in the future. Again, I don't like having to justify deals by saying there might be good future deals, but hey, if the shoe fits...

M2
12-05-2006, 11:09 AM
Because how dare the little ol' Reds sign players when they should just let the Yankees, Red Sox or Dodgers have them. The nerve.

That's my take too. Now, I don't understand why the Reds would be in on Loretta, but Krivsky's clearly been moving on the underbelly of the market before the top of the market sorts itself out yet (which is probably where most of the larger market teams are focused right now). I'm sure there's a fair number of teams that had Gonzalez, Stanton and Weathers identified as secondary targets and fallback options and them being off the market has increased the pressure to land option A.

shredda2000
12-05-2006, 11:10 AM
That's my take too. Now, I don't understand why the Reds would be in on Loretta, but Krivsky's clearly been moving on the underbelly of the market before the top of the market sorts itself out yet (which is probably where most of the larger market teams are focused right now). I'm sure there's a fair number of teams that had Gonzalez, Stanton and Weathers identified as secondary targets and fallback options and them being off the market has increased the pressure to land option A.


A little "Free Agent Poker" perhaps? :thumbup:

jojo
12-05-2006, 11:11 AM
If my last name is Harris, I'm not buying Reds jerseys as christmas presents.....

traderumor
12-05-2006, 11:16 AM
No doubt.

Will Carrol had this tidbit in his column.



So no one wanted Gonzalez?

No wanted Stanton or Weathers?

Funny how they all played last year and were going to play this year.

No one wants Sammy Sosa, someone wanted those other guys....maybe not for 5 million for 2 years, but it's hardly a Mark Davis deal.

Isn't it funny that these middle relief contracts are "pushing" the market up and what the Cubs have done hasn't?Isn't it just a hoot that someone actually wants people to believe that the little ole Reds are making the market with their very unexciting signings thus far? Sort of like yelling at some kid on the floor at the Chicago Board of Trade for the price of oil these days.

westofyou
12-05-2006, 11:24 AM
Isn't it just a hoot that someone actually wants people to believe that the little ole Reds are making the market with their very unexciting signings thus far? Sort of like yelling at some kid on the floor at the Chicago Board of Trade for the price of oil these days.

In a strange world that might (not) exist Reds sign Loretta and deal Phillips to Padres for Linebrink.

http://sportsline.com/columns/weblogs/entry/bull_pennings


Despite the exorbitant dollars being tossed around this winter, it is not a good time to be a second baseman. Tony Graffanino, Mark Loretta, Todd Walker and Ronnie Belliard remain on the market, and the only obvious open job for a second sacker is in San Diego. The Padres were close to a deal with Graffanino, but then Milwaukee surprised everyone by offering Graffanino arbitration on Friday, meaning the Padres will have to fork over a draft pick to Milwaukee if they sign Graffanino. That could mean GM Kevin Towers turns back to Walker or former Padre Loretta.


Cincinnati and San Diego briefly discussed a deal that would send Reds slugger Adam Dunn West but, as of Monday, there was no match. The Reds and several other clubs continue to inquire about Padres reliever Scott Linebrink. San Diego would be interested in versatile Cincinnati outfielder Ryan Freel.

pedro
12-05-2006, 11:27 AM
Well if Loretta can platoon at 1B with Hatteberg and provide MI insurance should Phillips or Gonzalez get hurt it makes some amount of sense. Anything that might take ab's from Castro has some upside.

Cyclone792
12-05-2006, 11:28 AM
Mark Loretta is basically the right-handed hitting version of Scott Hatteberg. He'd be possibly tolerable with a platoon advantage against left-handed pitching given his ability to take a walk and get on-base at a reasonable clip against southpaws, but there isn't going to be much power whatsoever.

Also, given the rest of the infield being filled out with Encarnacion, Gonzalez, and Phillips, I'd have to think that the vast majority of Loretta's playing time would come at first base in a platoon with Hatteberg. If that's the case, then the overall first base offensive line next season probably shouldn't be expected to be much higher than say ... .280/.360/.410, with Hatteberg putting that line up against righties and Loretta putting that same line up against lefties. The on-base ability wouldn't be so bad, but the Reds would be lacking some serious power.

And when looking at the rest of starting position player outlook, unless there would be another corresponding move following a Loretta signing to add another bat, I don't see this team scoring enough runs next season to be a viable contending threat.

Instead of Mark Loretta, I'd very much rather have Craig Wilson and his career .296/.395/.543 line playing first base against southpaw pitching. At least Wilson gives us a better chance to put some more runs on the scoreboard.

TStuck
12-05-2006, 11:33 AM
Just a wild thought that crept out of the dark recesses of mind....

If the Reds were to sign Loretta, could they pull a Soriano with Phillips and move him to the OF?:confused:

Red Leader
12-05-2006, 11:34 AM
I think Mark Loretta is the 2nd base equivalent to Joe Randa. He might surprise us next year with slightly inflated numbers in GABP, and might be a good player to deal down the road at the trading deadline. If you trade Brandon Phillips for Scott Linebrink, the question becomes:

Which would you rather have? Mark Loretta at 2B full time and Scott Linebrink in your bullpen, or Brandon Phillips at 2B full time and something around the area of $5M to spend (this year) in another area.

redsfan4445
12-05-2006, 11:35 AM
i would rather have Craig Wilson with that kind of money..!! and if they have some plan to trade Phillips and keep 34yr old Loretta, tells me this club doesnt have any idea what the heck they are doing

jesusfan
12-05-2006, 11:35 AM
Maybe ole Krivsky is going to package a deal around Encarnacion and let Loretta play 3rd....

M2
12-05-2006, 11:42 AM
Maybe ole Krivsky is going to package a deal around Encarnacion and let Loretta play 3rd....

My guess is that's exactly what many folks here are hoping won't happen. You can add Phillips to that list. The Reds are already a pedestrian club, trading away one of the few young, dynamic players in the mix would only serve to make the team the equivalent of the baseball snooze button.

I suppose if Loretta's job is to caddy for the kids and platoon at 1B with Hatteberg I don't mind the signing. I just find it awfully hard to believe that he'd be signing anywhere without an everyday job in the offing. He strikes me as the precursor to an ugly shoe drop.

westofyou
12-05-2006, 11:49 AM
i would rather have Craig Wilson with that kind of money..!!

Wilson made 3.3 last year, he might get 10 for 2 years in this market.

Jpup
12-05-2006, 11:49 AM
I think that Phillips for Linebrink would work for both clubs. I wouldn't like it, but it sounds about right.

redsfan30
12-05-2006, 11:50 AM
Just a wild thought that crept out of the dark recesses of mind....

If the Reds were to sign Loretta, could they pull a Soriano with Phillips and move him to the OF?:confused:

No.

Red Leader
12-05-2006, 11:51 AM
He strikes me as the precursor to an ugly shoe drop.

Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Kriv thinks that Loretta + Linebrink is greater than Phillips + $5M cash.

Hopefully, for the Reds sake that will be the end of his little bullpen fetish after that move is made. Actually, hopefully, none of this takes place...

M2
12-05-2006, 11:55 AM
Wilson made 3.3 last year, he might get 10 for 2 years in this market.

He might also be an everyday player for the Reds, provided some needed pop.

jesusfan
12-05-2006, 11:57 AM
Think of it this way... Linebrink would easily get 5-6 million per year, maybe more in this market...

Z-Fly
12-05-2006, 11:58 AM
Maybe ole Krivsky is going to package a deal around Encarnacion and let Loretta play 3rd....

I have to somewhat agree with your thinking. WK loves defense, and that is something that EE Lacks.

Jpup
12-05-2006, 11:58 AM
I have to somewhat agree with your thinking. WK loves defense, and that is something that EE Lacks.

he has very good range.

Red Leader
12-05-2006, 12:02 PM
If the Reds trade EE, replace him with Mark Loretta, and don't get back an absolute stud starting pitcher, I will quit watching them. Seriously.

Jpup
12-05-2006, 12:05 PM
If the Reds trade EE, replace him with Mark Loretta, and don't get back an absolute stud starting pitcher, I will quit watching them. Seriously.

Do you think that is actually going to happen? EE isn't going anywhere unless they get a haul.

jesusfan
12-05-2006, 12:06 PM
I dont know what is going to happen, but I sure do like the talk of Krvisky trying to acquire Linebrink from the Pads, and Bonderman from the Tigers....

Jpup
12-05-2006, 12:07 PM
I dont know what is going to happen, but I sure do like the talk of Krvisky trying to acquire Linebrink from the Pads, and Bonderman from the Tigers....

I don't mind it either, but I really, really don't want to trade Adam Dunn without someone to replace his production.

Edd Roush
12-05-2006, 12:16 PM
Linebrink is in the prime of his career right now and he provides the K/9 punch that many on the Weathers' threads were talking about needing. This could be a good case of the buying low that we are all calling for. Sell high off Phillips' career year and buy Linebrink and Loretta low. We do have Brendan Harris. If Loretta is traded or doesn't work out, we could always bring him up.

I don't know, with the sad sake of the back of the Reds' rotation and the astronomical prices (Padilla 3 yr/34 mil) that improvements are going for, I would be all for building a good bullpen. I really don't think substituting Loretta for Phillips would hurt as much as some around here are portraying.

Certainly Phillips has much more potential than Phillips, but I would be happy to have another good arm in the pen.

jojo
12-05-2006, 12:24 PM
Instead of Mark Loretta, I'd very much rather have Craig Wilson and his career .296/.395/.543 line playing first base against southpaw pitching. At least Wilson gives us a better chance to put some more runs on the scoreboard.

Absolutely....if the goal is to find a platoo partner for Hatteberg, how does Krivsky sign Loretta and ignore Wilson? Does Wilson hate puppies or something?

Jpup
12-05-2006, 12:26 PM
Absolutely....if the goal is to find a platoo partner for Hatteberg, how does Krivsky sign Loretta and ignore Wilson? Does Wilson hate puppies or something?

He hasn't signed Loretta and Wilson is still available. It's a rumor.

Red Leader
12-05-2006, 12:28 PM
He hasn't signed Loretta and Wilson is still available. It's a rumor.

I guess the thing that bothers me is that it is reported that the Reds offered the contract to Loretta, meaning that all Loretta has to do is agree to it, and he will be signed.

I haven't heard that the Reds have offered anything to Wilson, or even any "rumors" that they have interest in him.

Falls City Beer
12-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Talent = first concern

Value = second concern

Team Clark
12-05-2006, 12:40 PM
What always concerns me most when I read the "Why haven't they signed (Fill in the Name) to a contract" is the simple fact that some players do not want to come to Cincinnati. Maybe Wilson has a beef with Narron or doesn't like the hot dogs.... These guys are not trading cards! Money, length of the deal, logistics, location, kids, schools, what the wife thinks all come into consideration. I am amazed that those things are overlooked so many times when posters talk about the FA players. Why hasn't Wilson re-signed with the Yankees? Why haven't the Red Sox picked him up? Why hasn't this team signed so and so??? Because they are human beings who have to weigh their decisions.

Edd Roush
12-05-2006, 12:42 PM
Talent = first concern

Value = second concern

I don't necessarily agree with that. Ask the Yankees how that turned out for them. The Reds need guys that fit the mold of our team. Therefore, the Reds hypothetically signing a middle of the rotation guy would be much better than getting a 3rd baseman where we already have Edwin. Right now, the Reds could use a high K/9 pitcher in the prime of his career and second baseman are easy to find. Look at the market right now. There are plenty of Belliards and Lorettas out there. However, if Baez is getting 6.5 a year, it shows the astronomical price pitchers are going for this year.

I am not advocating giving Phillips up for nothing. But, it's not like Phillips is a Dunn, Encarnacion or Bailey. The Reds need pitching. If the Reds can attain this through Phillips, so be it.

lollipopcurve
12-05-2006, 12:55 PM
What always concerns me most when I read the "Why haven't they signed (Fill in the Name) to a contract" is the simple fact that some players do not want to come to Cincinnati. Maybe Wilson has a beef with Narron or doesn't like the hot dogs.... These guys are not trading cards! Money, length of the deal, logistics, location, kids, schools, what the wife thinks all come into consideration. I am amazed that those things are overlooked so many times when posters talk about the FA players. Why hasn't Wilson re-signed with the Yankees? Why haven't the Red Sox picked him up? Why hasn't this team signed so and so??? Because they are human beings who have to weigh their decisions.

Oh, come on, TC. The Reds need to can this Krivsky guy and get Santa Claus the Tooth Fairy into the GM's office.

Ltlabner
12-05-2006, 12:55 PM
Talent = first concern

Value = second concern

Sure...when it's not your money it's easy to say that.

I wish we could say damn the torpedos and full speed ahead with regard to spending, but there is always wisdom for trying to strech your aviable resources (in this case $$$) as far as possible.

There's always a limit to what you can spend, and how much is left over after you spend a chunk of it. All teams have a limit. Yes, even the Tankies.

Team Clark
12-05-2006, 12:56 PM
Oh, come on, TC. The Reds need to can this Krivsky guy and get Santa Claus the Tooth Fairy into the GM's office.

LOL!! You got me there. Santa would probably do a little better on the FA Wish List but the tooth fairy is probably "loaded" and could afford a little more.

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 01:03 PM
I don't mind it either, but I really, really don't want to trade Adam Dunn without someone to replace his production.

You forget...Morneau was the first Twin with 30 HRs since the 80s or something like that. Krivsky's background may lead him to not care too much about power.

RANDY IN INDY
12-05-2006, 01:03 PM
What always concerns me most when I read the "Why haven't they signed (Fill in the Name) to a contract" is the simple fact that some players do not want to come to Cincinnati. Maybe Wilson has a beef with Narron or doesn't like the hot dogs.... These guys are not trading cards! Money, length of the deal, logistics, location, kids, schools, what the wife thinks all come into consideration. I am amazed that those things are overlooked so many times when posters talk about the FA players. Why hasn't Wilson re-signed with the Yankees? Why haven't the Red Sox picked him up? Why hasn't this team signed so and so??? Because they are human beings who have to weigh their decisions.

:beerme: Nahhh, they're just cards with stats on the back!;) Good post, TC.

redsfan30
12-05-2006, 01:03 PM
What always concerns me most when I read the "Why haven't they signed (Fill in the Name) to a contract" is the simple fact that some players do not want to come to Cincinnati. Maybe Wilson has a beef with Narron or doesn't like the hot dogs.... These guys are not trading cards! Money, length of the deal, logistics, location, kids, schools, what the wife thinks all come into consideration. I am amazed that those things are overlooked so many times when posters talk about the FA players. Why hasn't Wilson re-signed with the Yankees? Why haven't the Red Sox picked him up? Why hasn't this team signed so and so??? Because they are human beings who have to weigh their decisions.

:clap:

MikeS21
12-05-2006, 01:19 PM
What always concerns me most when I read the "Why haven't they signed (Fill in the Name) to a contract" is the simple fact that some players do not want to come to Cincinnati. Maybe Wilson has a beef with Narron or doesn't like the hot dogs.... These guys are not trading cards! Money, length of the deal, logistics, location, kids, schools, what the wife thinks all come into consideration. I am amazed that those things are overlooked so many times when posters talk about the FA players. Why hasn't Wilson re-signed with the Yankees? Why haven't the Red Sox picked him up? Why hasn't this team signed so and so??? Because they are human beings who have to weigh their decisions.
I think most of the talk stems from the false premise that anyone could be had for the right "price." Hence, if So-and-So doesn't sign here, it has to be because the owner didn't pony up enough cash. But let's face it, when it comes to spending money at the grocery store or for your kid's braces, what is the difference between $3 million or $5 million? There are a lot of families living quite well on a whole lot less. You're right. Money isn't everything, and after a certain point, I'm not sure it means anything.

Falls City Beer
12-05-2006, 02:02 PM
Sure...when it's not your money it's easy to say that.

I wish we could say damn the torpedos and full speed ahead with regard to spending, but there is always wisdom for trying to strech your aviable resources (in this case $$$) as far as possible.

There's always a limit to what you can spend, and how much is left over after you spend a chunk of it. All teams have a limit. Yes, even the Tankies.

I didn't say value wasn't a concern; it is. But it should be second.

But every move so far this offseason has been about nibbling around at the periphery of the Reds' problems, not attacking the heart of the problem.

Ltlabner
12-05-2006, 02:06 PM
But every move so far this offseason has been about nibbling around at the periphery of the Reds' problems, not attacking the heart of the problem.

Gonzo dealt with defense up the middle, which was a pretty major need (unless you considered Royce Clayton the man for the job in 2007).

But short of that, I agree. The other moves have not dealt with the core issues of starting pitching, RH big bat for 1B and possibly (a distant 3rd IMO) a closer type.

jojo
12-05-2006, 02:07 PM
He hasn't signed Loretta and Wilson is still available. It's a rumor.


No one has said he did....

Oxilon
12-05-2006, 02:10 PM
I personally like the move and think it's going to look real good come August. There are 162 games in the regular season; there are always going to be issues regarding fatigue, slumps, and injuries. The best way to solve these issues in the regular season is by adding quality depth in the offseason. Seems to me that Loretta will just be platooning 2nd and 3rd ala Rich Aurilia the past couple seasons, which is perfectly fine by me.

Caseyfan21
12-05-2006, 02:18 PM
I could see Wayne signing Loretta to play 3rd. Then moving Encarnacion to left after trading Dunn for pitching. Encarnacion's biggest problem has been his defense and Wayne/Narron seem to be high on defense. By moving Encarnacion to left he can't be any worse than Dunn and Loretta would be an upgrade. Encarnacion as an OF intrigues me. But moving him to the OF at this point in his career could have an affect on his offense as he tries to learn a new position.

I think if Mark Loretta is signed for that much money, he has to play everyday and I think Adam Dunn will be gone for a young starter.

Redny
12-05-2006, 02:21 PM
Offer denied by Narron. See Marcs blog

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

Heath
12-05-2006, 02:24 PM
Then Loretta was offered about 3 weeks ago, but Gonzalez took the first bait.

Toss this aside, and let's try again.

Falls City Beer
12-05-2006, 02:24 PM
Offer denied by Narron. See Marcs blog

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

I hope this is right; I think that 3 million could be better spent. Loretta isn't the worst bat in the world coming off the bench, but I think there are bigger fish to fry.

puca
12-05-2006, 02:25 PM
never mind...rumor denied

wheels
12-05-2006, 02:29 PM
Good.

M2
12-05-2006, 02:42 PM
Talent = first concern

Value = second concern

Exactly right.

Talent wins ballgames. Value's just a tool you use to try to land more talent. Full value optimization in all 25 roster spots would land you, almost invariably, with a less talented team.

TStuck
12-05-2006, 02:45 PM
(Leaning back and surveying the carnage)

What a perfect waste of 6 pages of frothing - snuffed out by a 1 line denial...

Much ado about nothing after all - with that "nothing" brought to you courtesy of the good folks at espn.com! :D

Team Clark
12-05-2006, 02:47 PM
(Leaning back and surveying the carnage)

What a perfect waste of 6 pages of frothing - snuffed out by a 1 line denial...

Much ado about nothing after all - with that "nothing" brought to you courtesy of the good folks at espn.com! :D

Slow winter.:rolleyes:

Highlifeman21
12-05-2006, 03:09 PM
I'm sick of justifying these moves.

Every time Wayne brings someone in, I think "Well, there HAS to be another move to go along with this", and there never really is. Oh there will be other moves, but nothing that would aleveate the confusion about this signing. He never seems to move in a discernable direction. Sign this guy, trade these guys for more bullpen arms....It's making my head spin.

I've been reluctant to swing the hammer on Wayne thus far, mainly because I'm sick of not liking Reds GM's, but my patience is being tested now.

If Wayne isn't trading Phillips, this move makes no sense at all. Does anyone really think Loretta would sign as a bench player? I certainly don't.

I think we're being Krivskyed again.

That team has been a mish mash of mismatched parts since last July, and in this offseason, he's done nothing to clear it up.

Well, they do have a starting SS now. There's one, I guess.

Oh yeah, and now we get to watch Jerry Narron try to fit it all together.

It's gonna look a lot like that BBQ pit Homer Simpson tried to build.

If there's 1 man to screw things up, I put full confidence in Jerry Narron. Hatteberg would somehow end up as our everyday SS or RF by the time everything was sorted out.

As for Loretta being a Red, I'm all for it. He gives us more IF options, b/c clearly Narron needs more options. EE should be the everyday 3B, but that leaves us 3 other positions where right now we only have 1 clear cut everday option: 2B. I'm still of the opinion Phillips should be the Reds future everyday SS, and should be given all the opportunity in the world to prove that he can't do it. If that's the case, then we know what he can do at 2B.

1B is a mess until Votto arrives, and I don't know too many people who are 100% convinced he's an everyday option either. We signed AGon to be our everyday SS, but he's the textbook definition of light hitting.... Clearly we have IF issues, so signing another IF player should in theory attempt to solve issues.

Jpup
12-05-2006, 03:16 PM
If there's 1 man to screw things up, I put full confidence in Jerry Narron. Hatteberg would somehow end up as our everyday SS or RF by the time everything was sorted out.

As for Loretta being a Red, I'm all for it. He gives us more IF options, b/c clearly Narron needs more options. EE should be the everyday 3B, but that leaves us 3 other positions where right now we only have 1 clear cut everday option: 2B. I'm still of the opinion Phillips should be the Reds future everyday SS, and should be given all the opportunity in the world to prove that he can't do it. If that's the case, then we know what he can do at 2B.

1B is a mess until Votto arrives, and I don't know too many people who are 100% convinced he's an everyday option either. We signed AGon to be our everyday SS, but he's the textbook definition of light hitting.... Clearly we have IF issues, so signing another IF player should in theory attempt to solve issues.

Richie Sexson is an option for 1B. He had a pretty good year last year. The Mariners are willing to deal him, but I would think his price would be higher than the Reds would want to pay.

Team Clark
12-05-2006, 03:19 PM
Richie Sexson is an option for 1B. He had a pretty good year last year. The Mariners are willing to deal him, but I would think his price would be higher than the Reds would want to pay.

Maybe they could let Sexson and Dunn hit at the same time so contact could POTENTIALLY be made during their swings! I'm just kidding!! :laugh:

traderumor
12-05-2006, 03:20 PM
I found a picture of this reporter:

http://www.wisopinion.com/blogs/uploaded_images/emily-717478.jpg

Highlifeman21
12-05-2006, 03:20 PM
I dont know what is going to happen, but I sure do like the talk of Krvisky trying to acquire Linebrink from the Pads, and Bonderman from the Tigers....

Just b/c we might get 2 arms to help our staff, we would completely decimate our offense. What good is holding teams to under 600 runs for the year when you can't put up 600 yourself?

redsmetz
12-05-2006, 03:20 PM
(Leaning back and surveying the carnage)

What a perfect waste of 6 pages of frothing - snuffed out by a 1 line denial...

Much ado about nothing after all - with that "nothing" brought to you courtesy of the good folks at espn.com! :D

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/ksm0383l.jpg

Highlifeman21
12-05-2006, 03:29 PM
Richie Sexson is an option for 1B. He had a pretty good year last year. The Mariners are willing to deal him, but I would think his price would be higher than the Reds would want to pay.

Price would be too rich for our blood.

I might be alone in this thought, but I'd love Sexson in our lineup. Lotta power, RHB. 2 birds with 1 stone. Hatteberg could probably excel as the first PH off the bench, too.

EKURed
12-05-2006, 03:48 PM
Oh yeah...I would really like to have Sexson in the order. Big time power potential.

IslandRed
12-05-2006, 04:16 PM
Just b/c we might get 2 arms to help our staff, we would completely decimate our offense. What good is holding teams to under 600 runs for the year when you can't put up 600 yourself?

In the short term, nothing. A zero differential is still a zero differential, whether it's 600 or 800 runs we're talking about.

However... it might be a false perception, but I think it's easier and less expensive to take a team that's excellent at preventing runs and make its runs-scored number go up than to take an offense-heavy team and make its runs-allowed number go down.

IowaRed
12-05-2006, 04:24 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2686831

2:55 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick
• A source at the meetings said that St. Louis and Kansas City are both going hard after free-agent righty Miguel Batista.
• Why would the Reds offer Mark Loretta two years and $6 million when they already have a talented second baseman in Brandon Phillips? The Reds think Loretta can log enough at-bats as the right-handed first base complement to Scott Hatteberg to make the deal worthwhile. Loretta's first preference is to return to San Diego to play second, but the Padres are more interested in signing Ronnie Belliard or trading for Marcus Giles.

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 04:33 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove06/news/story?id=2686831

2:55 p.m., from Jerry Crasnick
A source at the meetings said that St. Louis and Kansas City are both going hard after free-agent righty Miguel Batista.
Why would the Reds offer Mark Loretta two years and $6 million when they already have a talented second baseman in Brandon Phillips? The Reds think Loretta can log enough at-bats as the right-handed first base complement to Scott Hatteberg to make the deal worthwhile. Loretta's first preference is to return to San Diego to play second, but the Padres are more interested in signing Ronnie Belliard or trading for Marcus Giles.

If this is true, I will be so confused. Why give someone $6 million over 2 years to face lefties? How much would Perez cost? Use the money elsewhere. He would make more money than anyone in the bullpen as the short end of a platoon. I seriously think Wayne is like Rain Man. Maybe he's Wayne Man. Does he have any perception of money?

Wayne, how much does a platoon player cost?
About 3 million dollars.

How about an overage reliever?
About 3 million dollars.

How about a shortstop who can't hit?
About 3 million dollars.

Matt700wlw
12-05-2006, 04:33 PM
From what I hear, the Reds are denying the Loretta rumor.

Always Red
12-05-2006, 04:37 PM
How about a shortstop who can't hit?
About 3 million dollars.

closer to 5 million. Should have been 3, though.

jojo
12-05-2006, 04:39 PM
Richie Sexson is an option for 1B. He had a pretty good year last year. The Mariners are willing to deal him, but I would think his price would be higher than the Reds would want to pay.


This is probably a reasonable starting point:

Dunn and E. Ramirez for Soriano (or Putz instead), Sexson and Reed.

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 04:41 PM
closer to 5 million. Should have been 3, though.

This year it's about $3 million. I heard WayneMan gave the parking lot attendant at the Swan and Dolphin a 2 year contract for $3 million per year for parking the car today.

RedEye
12-05-2006, 04:46 PM
Just b/c we might get 2 arms to help our staff, we would completely decimate our offense. What good is holding teams to under 600 runs for the year when you can't put up 600 yourself?

It isn't good for next year, but it's good for the long term. If they could trade Dunn to build a solid starting pitching foundation (Bonderman, Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, and Ramirez with Weathers, Stanton, Bray, Majewski out of the pen), they could weather a year of weak offense and add a few big FA bats with Dunn and Milton off the books.

I know writing off 2007 doesn't sound fun, but it might be our best option.

reds44
12-05-2006, 04:51 PM
huh?

Why?

Maybe we are planning on moving EE to 1st or RF.

pedro
12-05-2006, 05:14 PM
From what I hear, the Reds are denying the Loretta rumor.

Marc Lancasters blog has Narron saying that this is NOT TRUE.

Matt700wlw
12-05-2006, 05:20 PM
There you go.

:D

Highlifeman21
12-05-2006, 06:15 PM
If this is true, I will be so confused. Why give someone $6 million over 2 years to face lefties? How much would Perez cost? Use the money elsewhere. He would make more money than anyone in the bullpen as the short end of a platoon. I seriously think Wayne is like Rain Man. Maybe he's Wayne Man. Does he have any perception of money?

Wayne, how much does a platoon player cost?
About 3 million dollars.

How about an overage reliever?
About 3 million dollars.

How about a shortstop who can't hit?
About 3 million dollars.

But Loretta would be the 2007 version of Rich Aurilia. Platoon with Hatteberg at 1B, and then probably give BP and AG the occasional day off. If we do sign Loretta, I think that has to signal the end of the Freel era in the Queen City.

maniem
12-05-2006, 06:35 PM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061205/SPT04/312050030/1071

According to this, the Reds have also spoken with C. Wilson and Shea Hillenbrand...First time i've seen anywhere that they've spoken with Wilson.

maniem
12-05-2006, 06:37 PM
I stand corrected...They've only "talked" about him...They need to get on the phone with agent, ASAP....

Highlifeman21
12-05-2006, 06:41 PM
It isn't good for next year, but it's good for the long term. If they could trade Dunn to build a solid starting pitching foundation (Bonderman, Harang, Arroyo, Bailey, and Ramirez with Weathers, Stanton, Bray, Majewski out of the pen), they could weather a year of weak offense and add a few big FA bats with Dunn and Milton off the books.

I know writing off 2007 doesn't sound fun, but it might be our best option.

The only arms on that list I would agree constitute solid pitching foundation would be.... Bonderman, Harang, Arroyo and I'll put Bailey, Majewski and Bray in the "maybe" pile. Ramirez, Weathers, Stanton, pure trash.

While I'd love to have a Big 3 of Bonderman, Harang and Arroyo, you seriously erase an insane amount of production if Dunn's gone, and even with the money paid to Dunn and Milton to use as FA, I don't see Wayne spending big in the FA market. He hasn't so far this offseason, and I don't believe he will in the future. Minnesota rarely spends big FA money, so use that as Wayne's benchmark.

I understand looking towards the future, but Bruce and Votto won't be huge bats to eventually replace Dunn. Build around Dunn, not without him.

cincyinco
12-05-2006, 06:41 PM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061205/SPT04/312050030/1071

According to this, the Reds have also spoken with C. Wilson and Shea Hillenbrand...First time i've seen anywhere that they've spoken with Wilson.

What I want to know is why is Narron responding to this rumor, and not WK? Wouldn't WK be the one who decides to offer contracts to FA's?

Simmer down Jerry.. Simmer down..

BoydsOfSummer
12-05-2006, 06:48 PM
I rather spend the money on Loretta Lynn.

"Wayne,Don't go out a-drinkin'...with dealing on yer mind..."

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 07:35 PM
But Loretta would be the 2007 version of Rich Aurilia. Platoon with Hatteberg at 1B, and then probably give BP and AG the occasional day off. If we do sign Loretta, I think that has to signal the end of the Freel era in the Queen City.

Too much $$$ for a utility guy when you have a gaping hole in your rotation. Actually, make that 3 gaping holes. :D

Handofdeath
12-05-2006, 07:58 PM
The only arms on that list I would agree constitute solid pitching foundation would be.... Bonderman, Harang, Arroyo and I'll put Bailey, Majewski and Bray in the "maybe" pile. Ramirez, Weathers, Stanton, pure trash.

While I'd love to have a Big 3 of Bonderman, Harang and Arroyo, you seriously erase an insane amount of production if Dunn's gone, and even with the money paid to Dunn and Milton to use as FA, I don't see Wayne spending big in the FA market. He hasn't so far this offseason, and I don't believe he will in the future. Minnesota rarely spends big FA money, so use that as Wayne's benchmark.

I understand looking towards the future, but Bruce and Votto won't be huge bats to eventually replace Dunn. Build around Dunn, not without him.

Weathers "pure trash" ? Is this the same Reds reliever who's posted under 4.00 ERA the last two seasons? Quick, name another Reds pitcher, starter or reliever, who's done that. Harang and Weathers and that's it. Where did your objectivity go? As for Adam Dunn he supplies an insane amount of homers. But an "insane amount of production" ? Not from a player who ranked #26 in the NL in OPS and whose stats continue to fall as his salary rises. That is not a player who you build a team around. And for those people who complain that the Reds haven't spent any money, who has been signed so far that the Reds really needed and didn't get? The answer is nobody. The Reds don't need Carlos Lee or Gary Matthews at 9-10 million per. They don't need to pay 8 million to Randy Wolf so he can repeat his over 5.00 ERA in 2007. The market is out of hand and the Reds are smart to wait.

Degenerate39
12-05-2006, 07:59 PM
Marc Lancasters blog has Narron saying that this is NOT TRUE.

Thank God!

pedro
12-05-2006, 08:01 PM
Weathers "pure trash" ? Is this the same Reds reliever who's posted under 4.00 ERA the last two seasons? Quick, name another Reds pitcher, starter or reliever, who's done that. Harang and Weathers and that's it. Where did your objectivity go? As for Adam Dunn he supplies an insane amount of homers. But an "insane amount of production" ? Not from a player who ranked #26 in the NL in OPS and whose stats continue to fall as his salary rises. That is not a player who you build a team around. And for those people who complain that the Reds haven't spent any money, who has been signed so far that the Reds really needed and didn't get? The answer is nobody. The Reds don't need Carlos Lee or Gary Matthews at 9-10 million per. They don't need to pay 8 million to Randy Wolf so he can repeat his over 5.00 ERA in 2007. The market is out of hand and the Reds are smart to wait.

I think being #26 in the NL in OPS is pretty good. Even if Dunn had a very disappointing season.

edit: and I agree that Weathers isn't "pure trash"

Handofdeath
12-05-2006, 08:06 PM
I think being #26 in the NL in OPS is pretty good. Even if Dunn had a very disappointing season.

edit: and I agree that Weathers isn't "pure trash"

#27 is Josh Willingham from FLA. Would you build your team around that guy? I wouldn't.

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 08:08 PM
The Reds don't need Carlos Lee or Gary Matthews at 9-10 million per. They don't need to pay 8 million to Randy Wolf so he can repeat his over 5.00 ERA in 2007. The market is out of hand and the Reds are smart to wait.
Who says they are waiting? The only people who are waiting are us.

Highlifeman21
12-05-2006, 08:10 PM
Weathers "pure trash" ? Is this the same Reds reliever who's posted under 4.00 ERA the last two seasons? Quick, name another Reds pitcher, starter or reliever, who's done that. Harang and Weathers and that's it. Where did your objectivity go? As for Adam Dunn he supplies an insane amount of homers. But an "insane amount of production" ? Not from a player who ranked #26 in the NL in OPS and whose stats continue to fall as his salary rises. That is not a player who you build a team around. And for those people who complain that the Reds haven't spent any money, who has been signed so far that the Reds really needed and didn't get? The answer is nobody. The Reds don't need Carlos Lee or Gary Matthews at 9-10 million per. They don't need to pay 8 million to Randy Wolf so he can repeat his over 5.00 ERA in 2007. The market is out of hand and the Reds are smart to wait.

I agree that the Reds are smart to not jump in the overspending sweepstakes, but re-signing David Weathers isn't the solution to our problems, and excuse me if I'm not jumping for joy over a reliever who had an ERA under 4. I didn't think that was the benchmark for a good reliever.

I'm a Dunn fan, and not a fan of David Weathers. I think that's where my objectively sits. Dunn's our biggest offensive producer. That shouldn't be in question. It's a fact.

We can easily replace a Weathers. How do we easily replace a Dunn?

edabbs44
12-05-2006, 08:12 PM
#27 is Josh Willingham from FLA. Would you build your team around that guy? I wouldn't.

Yeah, #26 isn't anything to brag about. Especially since Ray Durham was #17, Freddy Sanchez was #28 and Jose Reyes was #29. Oh wait, Jacque Jones was #32.

Dracodave
12-05-2006, 08:19 PM
We can easily replace a Weathers. How do we easily replace a Dunn?

We don't. We trade for RH bats to make him better. I think Micheal Cuddyer from the Twins would be a good addition (plus it lives with Kriv's ex-twin Fetish). Cuddyer could easily play RF/1b, and at 27 posting a line of .297/.518/.376 against LHP and .276/.497/.355 against RHP. He'd be a good fit for our lineup.

A batting order of

Deno/Freel
Phillips
Cuddyer (Dunn protects)
Dunn (Griffey/EdE Protects)
Griffey/EdE
EdE/Griffey

I'd just wonder how much it would cost to get him..

Handofdeath
12-05-2006, 08:41 PM
We don't. We trade for RH bats to make him better. I think Micheal Cuddyer from the Twins would be a good addition (plus it lives with Kriv's ex-twin Fetish). Cuddyer could easily play RF/1b, and at 27 posting a line of .297/.518/.376 against LHP and .276/.497/.355 against RHP. He'd be a good fit for our lineup.

A batting order of

Deno/Freel
Phillips
Cuddyer (Dunn protects)
Dunn (Griffey/EdE Protects)
Griffey/EdE
EdE/Griffey

I'd just wonder how much it would cost to get him..

He would be a good fit. He finished 9th in the AL in K's with 130 and 9th in GIDP with 19. And I think he would cost a lot. If not now then surely later.

Dracodave
12-05-2006, 08:45 PM
Did not know that..Ha ha.

My bad..

Reds2006champs
12-05-2006, 09:20 PM
How about a Jacque Jones?

Reasons:
1. He doesn't like it in Chicago.
2. .285 with almost 30 homeruns.
3. Fill our hole in Right Field.
4. Former Twin, WK has to love him.
5. He only made 4 MILLION LAST YEAR.

How can we not go after this guy? Whoever gets this guy is the bargain of the off-season.

westofyou
12-05-2006, 09:28 PM
How about a Jacque Jones?

2 whole seasons with an OPS above .800 and has made an out 70% of the time he's come to the plate in his career.

For 4 million?

Pass.

jojo
12-05-2006, 10:25 PM
We don't. We trade for RH bats to make him better. I think Micheal Cuddyer from the Twins would be a good addition (plus it lives with Kriv's ex-twin Fetish). Cuddyer could easily play RF/1b, and at 27 posting a line of .297/.518/.376 against LHP and .276/.497/.355 against RHP. He'd be a good fit for our lineup.

A batting order of

Deno/Freel
Phillips
Cuddyer (Dunn protects)
Dunn (Griffey/EdE Protects)
Griffey/EdE
EdE/Griffey

I'd just wonder how much it would cost to get him..

The only problem is that there is very little evidence of a protective effect in batting orders....

Roy Tucker
12-06-2006, 09:07 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061206/SPT04/612060388/1071

Reds just talking with Loretta
Reds notebook
BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. - It has been reported that the Reds have made an offer to infielder Mark Loretta. Not true, says Reds manager Jerry Narron.

"We have not made a contract offer," Narron said. "We've talked to his agent, but we haven't made an offer."

Loretta is a right-handed hitter, so he fits the bill for the Reds' top need. But he's not the only one on the list.

Narron said the Reds also have talked about Eduardo Perez, Craig Wilson and Shea Hillenbrand.

"It's no secret we're looking for a right-handed professional hitter," Narron said. "Anyone else who is out there is probably on the list, too."

Loretta would fill the role Rich Aurilia had last year - playing second, third and first base.

"Richie got 450 at-bats in that utility role," Narron said.

Loretta hit .285 with five home runs and 59 RBI for the Red Sox last season. He played 111 games at second base and 11 at first.

Perez, Wilson and Hillenbrand offer more power, but Loretta is more versatile.

ON HOMER: If Homer Bailey pitches with the Reds this season, it will be as a starter.

"If he comes up, he'll start," Narron said.

But Narron doesn't expect Bailey to begin the year with the Reds.

"Unless something unforeseen happens, he'll start in Triple-A," Narron said.

NUXIE A FINALIST: Reds broadcaster/legend Joe Nuxhall is one of the 10 finalists for the 2007 Ford C. Frick Award, the Hall of Fame's broadcaster award. Nuxhall was one of three to make the ballot through fan voting. He got the second most votes behind Bill King.

The Frick Committee will vote in January for the award. The results will be announced Feb. 22.

Other finalists are: Tom Creek, Dizzy Dean, Ken Harrelson, Tony Kubek, France Laux, Denny Matthews, Graham McNamee and Dave Niehaus.

MAJEWSKI SITUATION: General manager Wayne Krivsky said the grievance with the Washington Nationals over the Gary Majewski trade is in the hands of the Reds' lawyers.

"We put together our case," Krivsky said. "It's up to commissioner's office."

The Reds don't expect much in the way of compensation, but they wanted to make a point because they feel they were lied to about Majewski's treatment for a sore shoulder.

Krivsky said he would deal with the Nationals again.

"I don't like eliminating teams," he said.

ONE TO WATCH: Both Narron and Krivsky mentioned right- hander Brad Salmon as a contender for a bullpen spot.

"He's 27, so he won't be intimidated by big-league hitters," Krivsky said. "He throws up 95, 96 (mph)."

Salmon was 5-1 with a 2.34 ERA at Louisville last season.

ANOTHER TO WATCH: When Narron discussed right field, Ryan Freel, Bubba Crosby and Chris Denorfia all were mentioned.

"Nobody talks about Norris Hopper," he said, "but the kid can hit."

Hopper, 28, hit .347 at Louisville to win the International League batting title. He also stole 25 bases. He hit .359 in 39 at-bats after the Reds called him up.

E-mail jfay@enquirer.com

RichRed
12-06-2006, 09:44 AM
"It's no secret we're looking for a right-handed professional hitter," Narron said.

Whew, they're looking for a professional hitter. I, for one, am relieved they're not going after one of those amateurs. Gotta love managerspeak.

RichRed
12-06-2006, 09:52 AM
EDIT: Double post, sorry.