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View Full Version : Reds Interested In Brad Penny



RedLegSuperStar
12-06-2006, 08:43 PM
per rotoworld.com

interesting especially with the Dodgers signing Schmidt.

OnBaseMachine
12-06-2006, 08:44 PM
I love Brad Penny, hopefully the Reds can land him. A top three of Penny, Harang, and Arroyo would give us the best rotation in the NL Central.

Matt700wlw
12-06-2006, 08:45 PM
I'd pack up my little Honda and go pick him up.

tomred
12-06-2006, 08:49 PM
How about Dunn for Penny and Either

CRedsLarkin11
12-06-2006, 08:51 PM
I'd love to have Penny, hate to see what we would have to give up however

lollipopcurve
12-06-2006, 08:53 PM
I'd love to have Penny, hate to see what we would have to give up however

Pretty sure it would be Dunn. What kind of contract does Penny have?

westofyou
12-06-2006, 08:54 PM
Pretty sure it would be Dunn. What kind of contract does Penny have?

Brad Penny p
3 years/$25.5M (2006-08), plus $8.75M 2009 club option

* signed extension 6/05
* $3M signing bonus (paid 2006-08)
* 06:$4.5M, 07:$7.5M, 08:$8.5M, 09:$8.75M club option ($2M buyout)
* limited no-trade clause
* 1 year/$5.1M (2005), plus $0.1M in incentives
o avoided arbitration 1/05 ($5.7M-$4.7M)
o $25,000 each for 160 & 180 IP, $50,000 for 200 IP
* 1 year/$3.725M (2004), avoided arbitration) 1 /04
* 1 year/$1.875M (2003), avoided arbitration 1/03
* 1 year/$377,500 (2002) 3/02
* agent: Greg Genske, Brian Peters
* ML service: 6.000

Always Red
12-06-2006, 08:54 PM
How about Dunn for Penny and Either

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but I don't think the Dodgers would!

Degenerate39
12-06-2006, 08:54 PM
I'd love to get Penny but I don't want to trade our best hitter for him.

RedLegSuperStar
12-06-2006, 08:54 PM
Dunn for Penny and Loney would work for me.. considering what offers were thrown out there for Manny.. which involved Billingsley, Kemp, and Broxton..

Getting Penny and Either or even Loney and move him to a corner OF spot would seem reasonable. Maybe add a young arm or a bullpen guy to get Either would be fine with me.

Always Red
12-06-2006, 08:55 PM
I'd pack up my little Honda and go pick him up.
I'll go with you: we'll make it a road trip...:beerme:

RedLegSuperStar
12-06-2006, 08:57 PM
I'd love to get Penny but I don't want to trade our best hitter for him.

our best hitter signed with San Fran.

Cedric
12-06-2006, 08:58 PM
His road splits have been brutal the last two years.

redsmetz
12-06-2006, 08:59 PM
I'd love to get Penny but I don't want to trade our best hitter for him.

Thank you!

lollipopcurve
12-06-2006, 09:00 PM
Brad Penny p
3 years/$25.5M (2006-08), plus $8.75M 2009 club option

* signed extension 6/05
* $3M signing bonus (paid 2006-08)
* 06:$4.5M, 07:$7.5M, 08:$8.5M, 09:$8.75M club option ($2M buyout)
* limited no-trade clause
* 1 year/$5.1M (2005), plus $0.1M in incentives
o avoided arbitration 1/05 ($5.7M-$4.7M)
o $25,000 each for 160 & 180 IP, $50,000 for 200 IP
* 1 year/$3.725M (2004), avoided arbitration) 1 /04
* 1 year/$1.875M (2003), avoided arbitration 1/03
* 1 year/$377,500 (2002) 3/02
* agent: Greg Genske, Brian Peters
* ML service: 6.000

thanks woy

I'm wary of Penny's injury history, but that's a nicely affordable contract for a guy who, if healthy, is a top 10-15 guy in the league.

Matt700wlw
12-06-2006, 09:03 PM
I'll go with you: we'll make it a road trip...:beerme:

I've never been to California! It'd be fun!

westofyou
12-06-2006, 09:12 PM
our best hitter signed with San Fran.

Oh please....

westofyou
12-06-2006, 09:12 PM
I've never been to California! It'd be fun!
Go west young man.

RedLegSuperStar
12-06-2006, 09:12 PM
well this rumor may involve someone besides Dunn.. just in the Dodgers could work a three way deal with Atlanta and Tampa Bay with Baldelli going to the Braves.. Andruw Jones to LA.. and pitching prospects/relief arms going to the Rays..

that was just on XM radio live from the winter meetings.

Reds Fanatic
12-06-2006, 09:23 PM
ESPN is also reporting that the Dodgers after signing Schmidt and Wolf are trying to trade Penny. I would love to see the Reds get Penny.

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2006, 09:28 PM
per rotoworld.com

interesting especially with the Dodgers signing Schmidt.

The Rotoworld blurb never actually said the Reds were interested. All they did was list teams that need a starter that would logically be interested in him.

Falls City Beer
12-06-2006, 09:30 PM
The Reds won't get Penny without overpaying, IMO.

As Cedric pointed out, he's becoming more and more a product of Chavez Ravine.

RedLegSuperStar
12-06-2006, 09:39 PM
The Rotoworld blurb never actually said the Reds were interested. All they did was list teams that need a starter that would logically be interested in him.

You are right.. I apologize. I had just tried to read it real quick heading out the door at work and posted the thread on my drive home on my phone. Guess I got excited.

Handofdeath
12-06-2006, 09:41 PM
Brad Penny for his career at GABP

4 starts
4-0 record
27 IP
25 K's
7 BB
2.00 ERA
0.85 WHIP

That's reason enough for me to get him.

reds44
12-06-2006, 09:45 PM
You can't trade Adam Dunn now. It's too late and you have sacrificed too much offense already. Dunn and Edwin cannot be traded.

If we can get Penny without giving up them, then sure.

jesusfan
12-06-2006, 09:49 PM
Krivsky will not acquire anyone besides maybe Eduardo Perez, and another 40 year old relief pitcher.... Sorry for the pessimism, but that's how I feel...

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-06-2006, 09:58 PM
The Rotoworld blurb never actually said the Reds were interested. All they did was list teams that need a starter that would logically be interested in him.
AND THERE IS NO SANTA

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2006, 09:59 PM
AND THERE IS NO SANTA

And apparently no "caps" key.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-06-2006, 10:00 PM
And apparently no "caps" key.
:thumbdown

mole44
12-06-2006, 10:00 PM
someone please give me a REAL reason everyone on this board is so for trading our best hitter? I'm not totally against dealing him, but not for Brad freakin Penny

JaxRed
12-06-2006, 10:07 PM
Penny's the wrong target. Billingsley is the guy you want (which is why Dodgers are keeping him and pawning off Penney). 8 million cheaper, not eligble for arb for 3 years, and a better pitcher.

Donder
12-06-2006, 10:08 PM
someone please give me a REAL reason everyone on this board is so for trading our best hitter? I'm not totally against dealing him, but not for Brad freakin Penny

I'm not going to say Penny is a yearly Cy Young threat, but he did start for the NL all-star team this past season. Whether or not he deserved it, that's still impressive. I think I'd be happy with a deal that was centered around these two players.

Eppa Rixey
12-06-2006, 10:08 PM
Anybody remember a few years ago when the Reds had a deal in place with the Marlins: Brad Penny to the Reds for Ty Howington and Luke Hudson?

The Reds backed off due to worries about Penny's arm troubles.
Ironic.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
12-06-2006, 10:11 PM
Penny's the wrong target. Billingsley is the guy you want (which is why Dodgers are keeping him and pawning off Penney). 8 million cheaper, not eligble for arb for 3 years, and a better pitcher.

Wrong target or not, it makes the rotation alot better. if Homer is as advertised, we may have one of the best rotations in the bigs.

Handofdeath
12-06-2006, 10:15 PM
someone please give me a REAL reason everyone on this board is so for trading our best hitter? I'm not totally against dealing him, but not for Brad freakin Penny

The main reason is if your team's best hitter is a strikeout prone power hitter who hits .234 and whose numbers have gone down for the second year in a row and who is taking up a significant part of your team's payroll in doing so, your team might be better off retooling.

MartyFan
12-06-2006, 10:19 PM
our best hitter signed with San Fran.

I almost posted the same thing but anytime I make a sarcastic remark I get negged...can't have that...gotta keep these few rep. points. :rolleyes:

dougdirt
12-06-2006, 10:22 PM
handofdeath, beware talking about a batting average and Adam Dunn in the same sentence. You will be plucked apart by some on here for it.

I would trade Dunn for Penny in a heartbeat, but I really doubt the Dodgers would.

Handofdeath
12-06-2006, 10:27 PM
handofdeath, beware talking about a batting average and Adam Dunn in the same sentence. You will be plucked apart by some on here for it.

I would trade Dunn for Penny in a heartbeat, but I really doubt the Dodgers would.

Thanks dougdirt but you're about four months too late in warning me;) I know that the OPS numbers are pretty much king here. Maybe if I pointed out that the declining AVG results in a lower OBP and SLG.:evil:

Heath
12-06-2006, 10:29 PM
Would a Ryan Freel and Eric Milton & $$ be good enough? You figure a pitchers park like Dodger Stadium would suit Uncle Miltie.

vaticanplum
12-06-2006, 10:30 PM
Would a Ryan Freel and Eric Milton & $$ be good enough? You figure a pitchers park like Dodger Stadium would suit Uncle Miltie.

Heath for GM :beerme:

I don't think so, actually, but packaged attractively enough that might (MIGHT) be a sell...that would make me happier than a clambake.

The problem is at this point Milton has such a bad reputation and is still paid a lot of money for just one year...that's have to be partly to get rid of Penny's salary on their part, I think, and the return isn't good enough.

Patrick Bateman
12-06-2006, 10:31 PM
I know that the OPS numbers are pretty much king here. Maybe if I pointed out that the declining AVG results in a lower OBP and SLG.:evil:

There's nothing wrong about saying something like that. That can be a fair point. Like with Dunn's power and walking totals, he needs to bat .260 to be a top flight hitter.

Batting average can have a use in that sense, but when you simply say somehting like Pierre is a better hitter than Dunn because of a much higher average, that's when you will be picked on.

Handofdeath
12-06-2006, 10:37 PM
There's nothing wrong about saying something like that. That can be a fair point. Like with Dunn's power and walking totals, he needs to bat .260 to be a top flight hitter.

Batting average can have a use in that sense, but when you simply say somehting like Pierre is a better hitter than Dunn because of a much higher average, that's when you will be picked on.

I have been pretty hard on Dunn and I like Pierre's speed and durability. I thought the Reds should have signed him before I saw what the market value was for Pierre. But no, Dunn is the better hitter.

mth123
12-06-2006, 10:48 PM
Would a Ryan Freel and Eric Milton & $$ be good enough? You figure a pitchers park like Dodger Stadium would suit Uncle Miltie.

That would be great for the Reds and I think Freel has value but with Pierre, Furcal and Betemit around, I think the Dodgers will be looking for power not a lead-off type. The Reds don't really have any power to trade.

RedLegSuperStar
12-06-2006, 10:57 PM
I almost posted the same thing but anytime I make a sarcastic remark I get negged...can't have that...gotta keep these few rep. points. :rolleyes:

Yes.. I know.. but points are based on opinions.. if your opinion varies from others thats the risk you take.

jmac
12-06-2006, 11:22 PM
penny to go with BA and harang would be great but he better add some runs if dunner goes !
aurilia, millar,guillen, are a few names i would have went after to fill void(especially guillen).
now if dunn is traded...i have my doubts on how wayne can keep offense effective.
i dont think just wilson would offset dunn.actually...i know he wouldnt !

Redmachine2003
12-06-2006, 11:25 PM
Another rumor floating around is that the Pirates are looking for an outfielder and are focused on Dunn and maybe offering Zack Duke.

RedEye
12-06-2006, 11:27 PM
Another rumor floating around is that the Pirates are looking for an outfielder and are focused on Dunn and maybe offering Zack Duke.

Where is this rumor floating around? I've not seen it.

Heath
12-06-2006, 11:28 PM
Another rumor floating around is that the Pirates are looking for an outfielder and are focused on Dunn and maybe offering Zack Duke.

Just what the Pirates need. More Strikeouts.

Redmachine2003
12-06-2006, 11:29 PM
Where is this rumor floating around? I've not seen it.
I was told it was reported in the Dayton Daily. I have not looked it up myself yet.

Redmachine2003
12-06-2006, 11:31 PM
If this was true would you do this deal, then trade Freel for Scott Linebrink, and then make a trade with the Cubbies for J. Jones.

Team Clark
12-06-2006, 11:31 PM
well this rumor may involve someone besides Dunn.. just in the Dodgers could work a three way deal with Atlanta and Tampa Bay with Baldelli going to the Braves.. Andruw Jones to LA.. and pitching prospects/relief arms going to the Rays..

that was just on XM radio live from the winter meetings.

That's probably a lot more likely than Dunn to LA for Penny.

Falls City Beer
12-06-2006, 11:32 PM
Another rumor floating around is that the Pirates are looking for an outfielder and are focused on Dunn and maybe offering Zack Duke.

I hope there's nothing to this. Zach Duke is one of the most overhyped pitchers I've seen in many years. I don't think the guy has thrown a 1-2-3 inning in his career. Ponderous.

Seriously, just disembowel me if the Reds trade Dunn for Duke.

cincy jacket
12-06-2006, 11:33 PM
I was told it was reported in the Dayton Daily. I have not looked it up myself yet.

It was in the Dayton Daily News this morning in Hal McCoy's article. He said it was unlikely though because the Pirates are trying to cut down on strikeouts.

fadetoblack2880
12-06-2006, 11:58 PM
so lets say dunn is sent to la for brad penny, who replaces him in left? an outfield of denorfia, griffey, and freel might be somewhat ok defensively, but offensiveley it would be attrocious. and if griffey gets hurt, then what? i'm all for acquiring pitching, but not at the expense of an already weak offense. is there anyone available who can replace dunn's 40 homeruns and help carry the offensive load of a team with an often injured centerfielder, and several younger unproven guys who had pretty good years last season? i don't believe so... i'm not bashing phillips, ross, or griffey. i love this team. i just hate to see them struggle to score runs. i know dunn stirkes out way to often, but until i see where this team can pickup the loss of his homeruns, i am against trading him.

RedEye
12-07-2006, 12:00 AM
It was in the Dayton Daily News this morning in Hal McCoy's article. He said it was unlikely though because the Pirates are trying to cut down on strikeouts.

I've been trying to cut down on that, too. It's tough to kick the habit. :D

Seriously though... how many teams are still out there that approach offense building in such a one-dimensional manner? It it just the Pirates and the Reds?

Cedric
12-07-2006, 12:03 AM
I've been trying to cut down on that, too. It's tough to kick the habit. :D

Seriously though... how many teams are still out there that approach offense building in such a one-dimensional manner? It it just the Pirates and the Reds?

The Reds GM extended the contract of the guy with the most strikeouts in single season history. I don't understand your position.

Wanting balance in a lineup is something different than what I think you are implying.

pedro
12-07-2006, 12:09 AM
The problem for the Pirates isn't that they strike out. It's that they suck. There isn't always a direct correlation between the two, but in their case I'd have to concede the point.

fadetoblack2880
12-07-2006, 12:12 AM
Who cares about the Pirates? Lets bash the Cubs and their free-spending idiocy. I really HATE them....:angry:

Chip R
12-07-2006, 12:19 AM
Who cares about the Pirates? Lets bash the Cubs and their free-spending idiocy. I really HATE them....:angry:


Yeah, but that's too easy.

George Foster
12-07-2006, 01:11 AM
Compaired to some of the salaries out there, if we could get Penny for 8.5 million, that's a steal. Trading Dunn for him...well if K does this he will have to sign or trade for a big bat. I'd due the trade. Pitching is everything.

Johnny Footstool
12-07-2006, 12:54 PM
The problem for the Pirates isn't that they strike out. It's that they suck. There isn't always a direct correlation between the two, but in their case I'd have to concede the point.

The problem with the Pirates is that they were 14th in the NL in OBP, dead last in SLG, and yet are worried about strikeouts.

It would be sad if I actually cared about the Pirates.

As for Brad Penny, he's a slightly above-average pitcher who has always pitched in friendly parks (Florida and LA). I like him, but not for Adam Dunn.

Falls City Beer
12-07-2006, 12:55 PM
It would be sad if I actually cared about the Pirates.

Trouble is, you care about the Reds.

Johnny Footstool
12-07-2006, 01:02 PM
Trouble is, you care about the Reds.

Yeah, but they seem to have a clue about offense. At least they did in 2005.

westofyou
12-07-2006, 01:07 PM
Yeah, but they seem to have a clue about offense. At least they did in 2005.

They have most of our lives.

What they never did was have 14 straight sub .500 seasons in a row.

RedEye
12-07-2006, 01:28 PM
The Reds GM extended the contract of the guy with the most strikeouts in single season history. I don't understand your position.

Wanting balance in a lineup is something different than what I think you are implying.

I guess my position is that there are far more important stats to consider than strikeouts. Dunn's OBP, even in an off year, was .360, which is far more important than how many times he strikes out IMO. I know, this argument has been rehearsed ad nauseum, and it's not novel... but these teams just aren't going to take advantage of their market positions until they start evaluating talent in different ways.

BenHayes
12-07-2006, 07:00 PM
It would be nice to have say Penny and Kemp for Dunn, Denorfia and Milton or Lizzard but i know Mr. Krivsky can't get it done.Another wasted winter meeting of small wallet talks.Too bad oh too bad.

marcshoe
12-07-2006, 07:05 PM
With the Dodgers signing of Luis Gonzalez, Dunn may not be their primary target, anyway. I have no idea if a package beginning with Freel and including a decent prospect (Wood, maybe) and another player (Cormier? I'm vamping) would be something the Dodgers would listen to, but I'd ask.

BenHayes
12-07-2006, 07:12 PM
It is so hard to see other teams going out and plugging their holes even at a high cost while we rest our hopes on a farm system that is tripple A dry .

Wheelhouse
12-07-2006, 07:24 PM
our best hitter signed with San Fran.

Here, here.

Wheelhouse
12-07-2006, 07:27 PM
You can't trade Adam Dunn now. It's too late and you have sacrificed too much offense already. Dunn and Edwin cannot be traded.

If we can get Penny without giving up them, then sure.

You can't trade Dunn now simply for the reason that Manny and Bonds are still on the market. Once those two are signed Dunn's value goes way up for a team that needs a slugger.

pedro
12-07-2006, 07:28 PM
our best hitter signed with San Fran.

Even if you can't accept the fact that Dunn is a more valuable hitter than Aurilia, certainly you can't discount Edwin Encarnacion as he is a better hitter than Aurilia as well.

Krusty
12-07-2006, 07:30 PM
How about Dunn for Penny and Either


That might work.

Gamble
12-07-2006, 07:30 PM
How about Dunn for Penny and Either

This thread really needs to regain focus, the only way this deal could ever make sense is either Dunn and someone like Pelland is dealt for Penny and Ethier, or they Reds pry away Chad Billingsley.

Sabo Fan
12-07-2006, 07:36 PM
Man, if it's going to take Dunn to pry Penny away from LA when they're the ones supposedly shopping him, then the Reds may never land another above-average starter. Colletti might be a little out of it if he's offering an injury-plauged starter around the league and asking for everyone's top hitter back in return. I realize it's only speculation, but think about what a Dunn for Penny deal would mean. We still talk about The Trade, but if that happened this would be The Trade and the debacle with Washington would seem like child's play in comparison, and I actually like Penny.

marcshoe
12-07-2006, 07:48 PM
I believe it actually is possible to make a trade without including Adam Dunn. Other teams do it all the time. ;) When Dunn is said to be the only possible primary in a deal with a team that just signed someone to play left field, just re-signed their first baseman from last year and has a prospect waiting in place if they move him to another position, and is known to be actively shopping for a center fielder, but finding that Penny won't bring back Vernon Wells, then I suspect we may be dealing with a knee-jerk reaction.

Falls City Beer
12-07-2006, 07:54 PM
Man, if it's going to take Dunn to pry Penny away from LA when they're the ones supposedly shopping him, then the Reds may never land another above-average starter. Colletti might be a little out of it if he's offering an injury-plauged starter around the league and asking for everyone's top hitter back in return. I realize it's only speculation, but think about what a Dunn for Penny deal would mean. We still talk about The Trade, but if that happened this would be The Trade and the debacle with Washington would seem like child's play in comparison, and I actually like Penny.

I agree with this completely. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Spitball
12-08-2006, 12:00 PM
The thing about Penny is that the Dodgers would actually be selling him at a low. He is coming off a poor second second half, and he is a surplus with the Schmidt and Wolfe signings. I doubt the reds could get him for anything short of Dunn, but they should demand lots of incentives to complete a Dunn for Penny swap. Penny, Ethier, Almedo Saenz, and a nice prospect for Dunn and Cormier would work for me. Penny gives the Reds a nice 1,2,3 in the rotation, Ethier takes over in left, and Saenz adds power to the first base platoon and backs up Encarnacion.

I realize Dunn is on the low, also, but Penny is surplus for the Dodgers.

mound_patrol
12-08-2006, 12:13 PM
why does Dunn have to be involved in every trade. Why can't we offer a package like Cuerto, Freel, and Votto. To me, that package seems like it would garner a nice return.

Spitball
12-08-2006, 02:15 PM
...like Cuerto, Freel, and Votto. To me, that package seems like it would garner a nice return.

Which pitcher could the Reds get for that package?

Jpup
12-08-2006, 03:08 PM
Which pitcher could the Reds get for that package?

Rick White.

LoganBuck
12-08-2006, 03:10 PM
Which pitcher could the Reds get for that package?

Basically anyone who isn't a consensus number one starter.

marcshoe
12-08-2006, 03:13 PM
Agreed. I ran the statistics last night to check and see if my theory was right, and believe it or not, 100% of the trades consumated in the past five years have not included Adam Dunn.

Unbelievable. :D

LoganBuck
12-08-2006, 03:18 PM
Agreed. I ran the statistics last night to check and see if my theory was right, and believe it or not, 100% of the trades consumated in the past five years have not included Adam Dunn.

Unbelievable. :D

Think of all the keystrokes devoted to said pursuit.

Heath
12-08-2006, 03:24 PM
Think of all the keystrokes devoted to said pursuit.

2/3rd's of them are from Krusty. Poor guy's fingers have to be bleeding!

:D