View Full Version : Reds Rule 5 Selections (Josh Hamilton?)

New Fever
12-07-2006, 10:37 AM
Biggest new rumor of the first round: Josh Hamilton won't be a Cub. BA has learned Hamilton will be traded to the Reds for cash.

Also we selected: Jared Burton, rhp, Athletics in the major league portion.

In the minor league portion we selected:
Francisco Mateo, lhp, Blue Jays and Nick Moran, rhp, Devil Rays

New Fever
12-07-2006, 10:44 AM
It is official now and they talk pretty good about him.


12-07-2006, 10:49 AM
If Hamilton can stay clean and mentally stable, I think this could be an absolute steal. Of course, drugs are a bad bad thing and for some people staying away is too much. I hope for Josh, baseball aside even, that he can keep clean the rest of his life.

12-07-2006, 10:53 AM
i didn't know that you could sell your draft pick. interesting.

12-07-2006, 11:00 AM
technically, I dont think its a sale, more of a trade....just made before the draft. Teams will draft who you want, then trade them to you for cash.

That is only for the rule 5 draft, you can not do this in the first year player draft.

12-07-2006, 01:18 PM
Wow. The Reds lost NOBODY. Speaks volumes as to what we have out there not recently drafted or under contract, that noone wants.

12-07-2006, 01:21 PM
The best tidbit from Hamilton's interview came when he was asked about jumping from A-ball to the major leagues: "I'm not really concerned. Baseball has never been the problem . . . I've been working out, and I can guarantee I will be in the best shape of my life when spring training comes."

Love that quote!

Doc. Scott
12-07-2006, 03:20 PM
It is official now and they talk pretty good about him.


Of course they do. The amount of ink they spent on Hamilton... they'd do the same for Jeff Allison, the Marlin #1 that's lost his career to OxyContin, if he ever came back and was given a similar chance.

I'll link my blog post about all these Rule 5'ers.


12-07-2006, 11:22 PM
I freakin' love this move. He didn't hardly cost us anything, he appears to still have a world of talent, and it sounds like he's back on track after the whole drug thing. This sounds like Brandon Phillips all over again, except with more upside. Where has this Wayne been the last 8 months?

12-08-2006, 10:27 PM
This is interesting that Josh Hamilton can be a free agent if he cleared outright waivers. Baseball america loves the move.

Do you think Josh Hamilton will stick on a major league roster through the entire season, or will the Reds have to offer him back to the Devil Rays at some point? If so, would Tampa Bay take him back?

Paul Masson
Quebec City
I've been at Baseball America since the 1988 Winter Meetings, and I don't remember there ever being as much buzz surrounding a major league Rule 5 draft pick as there was when the Cubs took Hamilton this week and then traded him to the Reds. The No. 1 overall pick in the 1999 draft, Hamilton ranked atop our 2001 Top 100 Prospects list before a lengthy series of injuries and substance abuse derailed a promising career.

Hamilton has just 50 at-bats total over the last four years—all of them coming in 2006 before he hurt his knee and needed arthroscopic surgery—and just 89 above Class A since turning pro. So he wouldn't be ready for the major leagues even if he suddenly regained all the talent he had earlier in his career.

That said, I could see him sticking with the Reds. For one, they only have four legitimate big league outfielders on their roster right now and they reportedly would like to trade one of those, Adam Dunn. Even if Hamilton can't make the club, it's possible Cincinnati could work out a trade with Tampa Bay for his rights, which would allow him to go to the minors. The Devil Rays were upset to lose him, not because he's a prospect, but because he needs stability and regular playing time. The Rays could decide it's in his best interests for them to make a deal with the Reds.

If that doesn't happen, Rule 5 mandates that Hamilton spend the entire 2007 season on the major league roster. (Cincinnati could stash him on the disabled list, but he needs 90 days on the active roster before he could be sent to the minors in 2008.) To send him down in 2007, the Reds would have to put him on outright waivers, allowing him to be claimed by any club, which would face the same guidelines.

Normally, Rule 5 picks have to be offered to their former team for half the $50,000 draft price, but Hamilton is an exception. Because he already has been placed on outright waivers, he can declare free agency if he clears them this time, though he also could accept his reassignment to the Devil Rays.

It's far from certain how all this will play out, but it did send a jolt through the Rule 5 draft and the potential payoff, however small the likelihood of the payoff, makes it a low-cost gamble worth taking.

12-09-2006, 08:42 AM
The Devil Rays were upset to lose him, not because he's a prospect, but because he needs stability and regular playing time.

Right. I'm sure if the Reds offered him back the DRays would say, "Let's not destabilize Josh again. You keep him."

12-10-2006, 11:12 PM
More details on Narron's relationship with him! And my 1000th post to boot, how about that Hamilton!

Reds bank on OF's redemption
Former No. 1 pick 'good kid from a good family,' Narron says

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. - When Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky mentioned to manager Jerry Narron that the club had a plan to obtain Josh Hamilton, Narron had one thought:


Narron has known Hamilton since Hamilton was a 15-year-old. He knows Hamilton's story - the decline from a can't-miss prospect to a skid-row drug addict.

"I felt all along if anyone could help the kid, it was me because of the relationship I've had with him. I know his past. I know his family. He's a good kid from a good family.

"He got caught up in something no one can explain. But I'm telling you, he's not a bad kid."

Narron will get a chance to help with Hamilton's redemption. The Reds gave Hamilton a fresh start Thursday by trading for him after the Chicago Cubs selected him in the Rule 5 Draft from the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

It is a $50,000 gamble - that's what the Reds paid to get Hamilton. They have to keep him on their big-league roster all year or offer him back to the Devil Rays for $25,000.

"There are risks with anything," Krivsky said. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."

Getting Hamilton for $50,000 is like buying a baseball lottery ticket: It could pay off big, but the odds aren't in your favor.

Hamilton realizes that himself. He thinks that's why the Devil Rays didn't protect him, even though they had paid him a then-record $3.95 million bonus after they selected him with the first pick in the 1999 draft.

"I don't think they thought anyone would take a chance on me," Hamilton said.

The Reds realized the risk but didn't go into it blindly.

"You do as much background work as you can and you make a decision," Krivsky said. "There's risk in everything you do. I'm not sure there's ever been a one-one pick taken in the Rule 5. We feel it's worth the gamble.

"We like his upside still. He's still relatively young at 25."

"One-one" is a reference to Hamilton going with the first pick overall in the 1999 draft.

He was the first high school position player taken first since Alex Rodriguez. That speaks to his talent. Hamilton threw 95 mph as a pitcher. And he had power and speed to go with that remarkable arm. He was a perfect 6-foot-4, 205-pound package of skills.

But all that talent is tempered by the fact that Hamilton missed 31/2 seasons while on the restricted list because of a drug suspension.

Narron's willingness to take on the challenge was a big factor in the Reds taking the risk and getting Hamilton.

"We know he's going to need a lot of support," Narron said. "I talked to him (Thursday). We're having lunch tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it."

Narron first saw Hamilton when he was 15 and playing for Narron's brother Johnny's fall league team.

12-10-2006, 11:15 PM
Also a bit more info on the others, and a few major league notes.

Hamilton not only addition to team
Reds notebook
LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. - It was lost in the Josh Hamilton news, but the Reds took a player in the Rule 5 Draft before the trade for Hamilton Thursday.

They selected right-hander Jared Burton from Oakland with the eighth pick in the draft. Burton, 25, was 6-5 with a 4.14 ERA in 53 games at Double-A Midland last season.

"He throws up to 93, 94 with a cutter and slider," special assistant Scott Nethery said. "We'll put him in our system and see if he can't join the group in the middle of our bullpen."

Burton, as a Rule 5 Draft pick, must remain on the Reds' 25-man roster all season or be offered back to Oakland at half the $50,000 fee the Reds paid to select him.

The Reds also took two players in the minor-league Rule 5: They selected left-handed pitcher Francisco Mateo off Toronto's Single-A Dunedin roster in the first round of the Class AAA phase and right-hander Nick Moran off Tampa Bay's Single-A Visalia roster in the first round of the Class AA phase.

Mateo, 22, was 5-2 with a 4.18 ERA in 14 starts in rookie ball. Moran, 26, was 2-1 with a 5.51 ERA at Visalia.

MOVE COMING: The Reds will have to make a roster move to add David Weathers to the 40-man roster when his signing becomes official. Hamilton and Burton put the Reds at 40 players.

DECISION TIME: Left-hander Scott Schoeneweis had until midnight Thursday to accept the Reds' offer of arbitration. The club hasn't had many talks with Schoeneweis about returning. But his name didn't come up much at the Winter Meetings.

Doc. Scott
12-11-2006, 02:59 AM
I discovered that Hamilton had been featured on an episode of HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel this past summer. Anyone see this? If so, what did it say?


12-11-2006, 09:16 AM
Yeah, I saw that. It said all the things we've read about, but surprisingly, it seemed like there wasn't as much optimism. (I say "surprisingly" because it aired on television.)

Anyway, I haven't seen it since the summer (in a Toledo hotel), so my memory of it isn't crystal clear, but I believe he was living with his wife's family, and his wife basically said she could never trust him to ever stay off drugs/alcohol, so she follows him everywhere (literally, aside from the restroom, pretty much). Like, if he's playing a game across the country, she rides in a separate vehicle, following the team bus. And after games, he has to walk by her side all the way from the field to the bus and so on. I remember thinking it was ridiculous, but it's so much better than what they were putting up with before (him being wasted and missing all the time), so at least it's a step in the right direction.