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redsfan30
12-09-2006, 10:41 AM
According to ESPN, Deltha O'Neal was arrested early this morning and charged with DWI.

What else can be said at this point that hasn't already been said?


AMELIA, Ohio -- Cincinnati Bengals cornerback Deltha O'Neal was charged with driving while intoxicated early Saturday after being stopped at a traffic checkpoint.

The two-time Pro Bowl player had a blood-alcohol level of 0.10, above Ohio's legal limit of 0.08, the State Highway Patrol said. O'Neal was alone in his car and arrested at the scene, Sgt. Kevin Long said. O'Neal took a breath test and was released.

He is to appear in Clermont County Municipal Court on Dec. 12. The seven-year veteran is the eighth Bengals player arrested this year. Rookie receiver Reggie McNeal was charged with resisting arrest this week outside a Houston nightclub.

Bengals spokesman Jack Brennan said Saturday he was unaware of this latest arrest. The team withholds comment on unresolved charges against players, he said.

The Bengals host the Oakland Raiders on Sunday.

traderumor
12-09-2006, 10:47 AM
I'd say I'm hopeful that they are not planning any riverboat cruise parties.

guttle11
12-09-2006, 10:48 AM
.10?

That used to be legal. Not a big deal, at least in terms of the usual Bengal arrests. That's a glass of water from being legal. I'm not going ot cast stones on that. I've probably driven worse. (Not something I'm proud of)

Unless he punched the cop. He didn't, did he? Never know with those boys.

BuckWoody
12-09-2006, 11:01 AM
:rolleyes:

When will it end!?! God truly hates Bengals' fans; OK, you can finally have a good team to cheer for after a decade and a half of futility, but the team will be filled with a bunch of embarrassing lunkheads who constantly get in trouble with the law.

I guess it could be worse. They could be getting into all this trouble and be 2-10. :dunno:

RFS62
12-09-2006, 11:03 AM
Do the Bengals get a volume discount on bail bonds?

dougdirt
12-09-2006, 11:03 AM
Its sad....yesterday on another board I attend someone said "I hope our boys read the newspaper, there is a checkpoint in there. Lets hope no one decides to stop by"

Fast forward to this morning and sure enough.....

Heath
12-09-2006, 11:04 AM
:rolleyes:

When will it end!?! God truly hates Bengals' fans; OK, you can finally have a good team to cheer for after a decade and a half of futility, but the team will be filled with a bunch of embarrassing lunkheads who constantly get in trouble with the law.

I guess it could be worse. They could be getting into all this trouble and be 2-10. :dunno:

If they were 2-10, nobody would care.

On the outside, it looks like the "thugs" are coming to Bengal-land just as the winning starts.

Redsland
12-09-2006, 11:22 AM
I wonder if Nancy Zimpher could turn things around?

WVRed
12-09-2006, 11:36 AM
Do the Bengals get a volume discount on bail bonds?

I'd hope so. I'd hate to see them have to deal with this guy.

http://www.e-hawaii.com/stars/index/duane_dog_chapman/images/duane_dog_chapman003.jpg

Matt700wlw
12-09-2006, 01:47 PM
Its sad....yesterday on another board I attend someone said "I hope our boys read the newspaper, there is a checkpoint in there. Lets hope no one decides to stop by"

Fast forward to this morning and sure enough.....

All he had to do was tune in to the Big One :D

Reds4Life
12-09-2006, 01:49 PM
My understanding is Deltha was on his 2nd strike with th NFL, and strike 3 was a lifetime ban.

Matt700wlw
12-09-2006, 01:51 PM
For what?

I missed that...

Reds4Life
12-09-2006, 01:53 PM
For what?

I missed that...


Repeated violations of the league substance abuse policy. He's failed several drug tests.

Matt700wlw
12-09-2006, 01:55 PM
Wow...didn't know.

I have to do a better job :D

Yachtzee
12-09-2006, 02:20 PM
If they were 2-10, nobody would care.

On the outside, it looks like the "thugs" are coming to Bengal-land just as the winning starts.

O'Neal is probably charged with a BAC violation (prohibited blood alcohol content) and/or OVI (Operating a Vehicle while Intoxicated). It's a first degree misdemeanor in Ohio. I would hardly call that "thug" behavior. I deal with people charged with OVI/BAC on a weekly basis. I'd say 99.9% of them are your normal everyday average folks who made a stupid mistake and got caught. If they are "low blows" (under 0.17), they're likely to be social drinkers who just had one too many, thought they were okay, and decided to try to drive home. O'Neal only blew a 0.10, which leads me to believe he falls in that category. Usually what happens is that the person realizes they made a mistake, pleads guilty, gets 3 days in a driver intervention program and a fine and a license suspension with privileges for driving to work. Most people are so embarrassed that they get "scared straight" and it doesn't happen again. Getting arrested for OVI is hardly "thug" behavior. Is Ryan Freel a thug? He was busted for doing a lot more than blowing a 0.10.

Of the 8 Bengal arrests, 3 were for OVI (or Boating under the Influence for Steinbach). 1 was a resisting arrest arising from an argument over illegal parking, the charges were dropped and now Askew is suing for false arrest and excessive force. As for the other four, well, we'll have to see how the court cases play out before we deem them "thugs." In any case, I suspect you have at least that many players with similar legal troubles on every NFL team. The Bengals just have the luck of the troubles coming all in one season. Besides, these aren't the Boy Scouts we're talking about.

At least none of the Bengals have been charged with Murder or Drug Trafficking.

Matt700wlw
12-09-2006, 02:22 PM
At least none of the Bengals have been charged with Murder or Drug Trafficking.

There's still time :D

Yachtzee
12-09-2006, 03:07 PM
My understanding is Deltha was on his 2nd strike with th NFL, and strike 3 was a lifetime ban.

I haven't seen this anywhere. Where did you hear this? That would stink if true.

traderumor
12-09-2006, 03:11 PM
Good job putting things in perspective, Yachtzee. Most of what has happened has been no more than occurs in your local factory workforce over the course of a year, and probably less. Of course, there is that "greater responsibility" malarky that gets tossed around that is supposed to serve as some moral plumbline, but it obviously hasn't gotten through, nor do I expect it will.

joshnky
12-09-2006, 03:19 PM
I hate to see this happen again because it is fueling a negative perception in the national media. Like was previously mentioned these are mostly minor offenses that don't warrant national publicity. I think the most frustrating thing about all of this is that there is absolutely nothing the Bengals can do about it. Thurman, McNeal, and Henry (as much as I hate to say it) should have probably been cut lose but the CBA doesn't allow teams to discipline players for legal infractions. How can we expect them to behave when their employer is powerless to punish them?

Chip R
12-09-2006, 04:28 PM
A foretelling passage in a column by ESPN Page 2's Bill Simmons on Friday.


Now that we have that settled -- what about seven Bengals players getting arrested out of 53? That's 13 percent of the team! Imagine if 13 percent of your office or classroom had been arrested in the past few months? Can they get to 10 before the end of the season? You figure with holiday parties coming, that's good for one DUI. And the holidays bring visitors and family members, which usually brings trouble, so that's good for some sort of incident at a party or a club. So we only need one more wild-card arrest -- something harmless like speeding and attempting to evade an officer, or shoplifting a Christmas present of something -- and then we'll be at 10. Now that would be something. Ten Bengals arrested in one year? We'll be telling our grandkids about that one. Keep your fingers crossed.

savafan
12-09-2006, 10:20 PM
A foretelling passage in a column by ESPN Page 2's Bill Simmons on Friday.

Well, O'Neal makes 15% of the team now, right?

TeamBoone
12-10-2006, 01:19 AM
Is this a trend only with the Bengals, or are other teams also afflicted but we just don't hear about it?

SunDeck
12-10-2006, 11:45 AM
When are the Bengals going to wise up and contract with a limousine company?

VR
12-10-2006, 12:19 PM
O'Neal is probably charged with a BAC violation (prohibited blood alcohol content) and/or OVI (Operating a Vehicle while Intoxicated). It's a first degree misdemeanor in Ohio. I would hardly call that "thug" behavior. I deal with people charged with OVI/BAC on a weekly basis. I'd say 99.9% of them are your normal everyday average folks who made a stupid mistake and got caught. If they are "low blows" (under 0.17), they're likely to be social drinkers who just had one too many, thought they were okay, and decided to try to drive home. O'Neal only blew a 0.10, which leads me to believe he falls in that category. Usually what happens is that the person realizes they made a mistake, pleads guilty, gets 3 days in a driver intervention program and a fine and a license suspension with privileges for driving to work. Most people are so embarrassed that they get "scared straight" and it doesn't happen again. Getting arrested for OVI is hardly "thug" behavior. Is Ryan Freel a thug? He was busted for doing a lot more than blowing a 0.10.

Of the 8 Bengal arrests, 3 were for OVI (or Boating under the Influence for Steinbach). 1 was a resisting arrest arising from an argument over illegal parking, the charges were dropped and now Askew is suing for false arrest and excessive force. As for the other four, well, we'll have to see how the court cases play out before we deem them "thugs." In any case, I suspect you have at least that many players with similar legal troubles on every NFL team. The Bengals just have the luck of the troubles coming all in one season. Besides, these aren't the Boy Scouts we're talking about.

At least none of the Bengals have been charged with Murder or Drug Trafficking.

It all depends on the quality of organization you want to portray to your fans, the ones who buy jerseys and tickets. There's a few marketing dollars to be made as well, and teams suffer because of the actions of individuals.

I have been a Vikings fan since I was a wee lad in the early seventies. The innocent actions of the love boat posse was and is a black eye for the organization, costing them millions upon millions of dollars, both current and future.

Having an organization that operates with class means ownership/ management hold players (and administrators) to a very high standard as it relates to their off the field behavior. I don't know if the Bengals problem is 'dismissed' by Lewis as it was by Tice and Green in Minny....but I can tell you it's not as cool as it used to be with the Raiders of the 60's and 70's.

There is never a reason or excuse for pro players to get DWI's, ever. They have been counseled about it by the NFL and ad nauseum by their teams. You are able to make millions of dollars because you are in the spotlight of the fans. If the millions are OK, so too should a little more responsibility for your actions than the typical office worker.

Chip R
12-10-2006, 12:42 PM
When are the Bengals going to wise up and contract with a limousine company?


That would be the perfect solution. But the fact is that these are grown men and not children who need to be chauffered around whenever they decide to go to the grocery store. While I'm sure some would enjoy riding in a limo all the time, I would think others would chafe at the prospect. You think these guys pimp their rides so they can keep their wheels in the garage? Plus, there is a bit of a cost to have players chauffered around in limos all the time. You're talking about 53 players here plus the guys on the practice squad. You want them to do this during the offseason as well? Then you have the conflict of interest angle. Who does the limo company work for, the player or the Bengals organization? If the player does something he doesn't want the organization to know about, is it incumbent upon the limo driver to tell the Bengals what the player is up to? Basically these guys are adults who make poor choices. It happens but it seems to happen a lot more with the Bengals. Now is that because the organization is drafting and acquiring individuals who are prone to this type of behavior or do these guys gradiate to this kind of behavior because they have a lot of money and are in a profession where they experience a certain lifestyle and they feel they must experience that lifestyle. Maybe it's some of both.

Willy
12-10-2006, 12:59 PM
That would be the perfect solution. But the fact is that these are grown men and not children who need to be chauffered around whenever they decide to go to the grocery store. While I'm sure some would enjoy riding in a limo all the time, I would think others would chafe at the prospect. You think these guys pimp their rides so they can keep their wheels in the garage? Plus, there is a bit of a cost to have players chauffered around in limos all the time. You're talking about 53 players here plus the guys on the practice squad. You want them to do this during the offseason as well? Then you have the conflict of interest angle. Who does the limo company work for, the player or the Bengals organization? If the player does something he doesn't want the organization to know about, is it incumbent upon the limo driver to tell the Bengals what the player is up to? Basically these guys are adults who make poor choices. It happens but it seems to happen a lot more with the Bengals. Now is that because the organization is drafting and acquiring individuals who are prone to this type of behavior or do these guys gradiate to this kind of behavior because they have a lot of money and are in a profession where they experience a certain lifestyle and they feel they must experience that lifestyle. Maybe it's some of both.

I understand where you are comingfrom, but I think a lot of this falls back on the organization, mostly Eric Ball. I not saying they need to be chauffered everywhere, but Eric needs to have a plan in place and pressure the into using it.

Why not tell all of these guys that there is going to be a checkpoint(Email, textmessage, calling them). Offer them to have someone drive them around if they are going out, or give them a number of someone to come pick them up(I would take that job). Eric needs to constantly reminding these guys to use the services, if you find out someone isn't useing the services you better be having a chat with them.

Some of these guys aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, and they need their hand held.

Yachtzee
12-10-2006, 01:08 PM
It all depends on the quality of organization you want to portray to your fans, the ones who buy jerseys and tickets. There's a few marketing dollars to be made as well, and teams suffer because of the actions of individuals.

I have been a Vikings fan since I was a wee lad in the early seventies. The innocent actions of the love boat posse was and is a black eye for the organization, costing them millions upon millions of dollars, both current and future.

Having an organization that operates with class means ownership/ management hold players (and administrators) to a very high standard as it relates to their off the field behavior. I don't know if the Bengals problem is 'dismissed' by Lewis as it was by Tice and Green in Minny....but I can tell you it's not as cool as it used to be with the Raiders of the 60's and 70's.

There is never a reason or excuse for pro players to get DWI's, ever. They have been counseled about it by the NFL and ad nauseum by their teams. You are able to make millions of dollars because you are in the spotlight of the fans. If the millions are OK, so too should a little more responsibility for your actions than the typical office worker.

I'm not making an excuse for O'Neal getting his OVI. I'm just saying that a lot of people just plain have no idea how to equate how much they've had to drink with a blood alcohol level. Sure there are charts and calculators on the internet, but both BAC and the effect that one feels from alcohol are both based on the physiology of the individual. If you drink, you can be legally over the limit even if you feel "sober." In any case, it's a mistake that many people make and is hardly indicative of "thug" behavior. It's more "stupid" that "thug."

Is it against the law? Yes. Should he be punished? Yes. But should we look at O'Neal and the other Bengals arrested for OVI in the same way we look at a thug who is arrested for assaulting someone else? No.

Yachtzee
12-10-2006, 01:11 PM
I understand where you are comingfrom, but I think a lot of this falls back on the organization, mostly Eric Ball. I not saying they need to be chauffered everywhere, but Eric needs to have a plan in place and pressure the into using it.

Why not tell all of these guys that there is going to be a checkpoint(Email, textmessage, calling them). Offer them to have someone drive them around if they are going out, or give them a number of someone to come pick them up(I would take that job). Eric needs to constantly reminding these guys to use the services, if you find out someone isn't useing the services you better be having a chat with them.

Some of these guys aren't the sharpest tools in the shed, and they need their hand held.

Maybe they should see if there are any teetotallers on the team willing be a designated driver?

WMR
12-10-2006, 02:42 PM
Maybe they should see if there are any teetotallers on the team willing be a designated driver?

Carson's driving the shaggin' wagon! Everybody pile in!

vaticanplum
12-10-2006, 02:55 PM
When are the Bengals going to wise up and contract with a limousine company?

I think it would be hilarious if they signed an ADVERTISING contract with a limousine company or car service. Bengals appear in the ads for no payment and the Bengals organization, in turn, does not have to pay for the limousine services. And then the fliptards in Cincinnati who drive drunk all the time are reminded, maybe, that there is an option for getting home besides driving themselves.

Perhaps not the most politically correct thing in the world, but I'm all for anything that can get even a few drunk drivers off the road.

savafan
12-10-2006, 03:05 PM
Maybe Andy Furman could chauffeur the players around, I hear he's got some free time. ;)

Chip R
12-10-2006, 03:12 PM
I think it would be hilarious if they signed an ADVERTISING contract with a limousine company or car service. Bengals appear in the ads for no payment and the Bengals organization, in turn, does not have to pay for the limousine services. And then the fliptards in Cincinnati who drive drunk all the time are reminded, maybe, that there is an option for getting home besides driving themselves.

Perhaps not the most politically correct thing in the world, but I'm all for anything that can get even a few drunk drivers off the road.


Not a bad idea but limos aren't a product the public uses a great deal. Cars, yeah. Beer, you bet. But limos are somewhat of a luxury thing. The fliptards who drive drunk aren't going to call a limo service if they decide not to drive. They will either get a taxi or get a friend to go with them. And there's the macho thing that goes into play as well. These guys think they are sober enough to drive drunk. Or they don't feel they are drunk enough. Maybe they feel that their athletic ability makes them less immune to the effects of alcohol. Perhaps they feel if they get nailed, they will be able to talk their way out of the ticket due to who they are (and who's to say that hasn't happened?) Or they don't care.

I'm all for keeping drunks off the road but you can only do so much for these people. Especially the athletes. We don't know what goes on inside the locker room. Perhaps the team was already notified that there would be checkpoints at certain places in the area. You would think they would be made aware of that fact since there have been so many who have had these problems. But perhaps O'Neal either forgot or chose to ignore that fact. And that's basically what I'm saying here. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink - so to speak.

vaticanplum
12-10-2006, 03:52 PM
Well, a car service then. they have those here, right? Just a little more expensive than cabs.

I agree with you to an extent, Chip. but it's becoming pretty obvious that the Bengals have a problem widespread through much of the team, and it doesn't appear to be solving itself. There may well be something wrong with the culture of that team, with a mentality being thrown about that the players are not beholden to anyone but themselves. I think that the organization stepping in at some point is warranted and respectable. I'm not sure they're quite at that point yet, but they're close. It's not unheard of for businesses to provide transportation and education for these things to their employees, not at all.

Adults making bad decisions are ALWAYS responsible for their actions. Murder, drunk driving, abuse, drugs, everything. and they should be punished. Should that always be the end of it? A slap on the wrist (or a more severe punishment, depending) and that's it, you're a grown-up so anything you have to learn you're going to do it on your own? Sometimes education is helpful and provides prevention, and when an entire organization appears to have a problem, I see nothing wrong with the organization stepping in. What does that hurt?

Chip R
12-10-2006, 07:38 PM
I agree but we don't know to what extent the Bengals and/or the NFL has stepped in and tried to educate these players. We know that Odell Thurman was suspended for the year for his problem. We know Chris Henry was suspended a couple of games for one of his problems and seems to have skated on his legal problems. Perhaps the Bengals have done nothing to let these players know that they shouldn't break the law. Perhaps they have done everythng in their power. We don't know for sure. You would think that with all the arrests that they would beg and plead with the players not to drink and drive or not to carry firearms - although that seems to be legal in Cincinnati if you have a permit. But what I'm trying to say is that in the end, no matter how much you educate them, no matter how much you warn them, no matter how much you threaten them they are going to do what they want just like any adult. Now there should be consequences for their actions but that's anther story.

And it's not just drunk driving that's the problem either. If you have a limo or car service for them, it isn't going to stop them from getting arrested for domestic abuse or something else. They could be chauffered to a club and have too much to drink and get into a fight or something. Maybe one of the posse gets out of control and the player steps in and the cops come and the player is arrested. Perhaps he didn't do anything wrong but he still was arrested.

Is this a problem because of a lack of education or is it a behavioral problem? If it's the former, that's easy enough to fix. But if it's the latter, that's a little tougher.

vaticanplum
12-10-2006, 08:41 PM
I agree but we don't know to what extent the Bengals and/or the NFL has stepped in and tried to educate these players. We know that Odell Thurman was suspended for the year for his problem. We know Chris Henry was suspended a couple of games for one of his problems and seems to have skated on his legal problems. Perhaps the Bengals have done nothing to let these players know that they shouldn't break the law. Perhaps they have done everythng in their power. We don't know for sure. You would think that with all the arrests that they would beg and plead with the players not to drink and drive or not to carry firearms - although that seems to be legal in Cincinnati if you have a permit. But what I'm trying to say is that in the end, no matter how much you educate them, no matter how much you warn them, no matter how much you threaten them they are going to do what they want just like any adult. Now there should be consequences for their actions but that's anther story.

And it's not just drunk driving that's the problem either. If you have a limo or car service for them, it isn't going to stop them from getting arrested for domestic abuse or something else. They could be chauffered to a club and have too much to drink and get into a fight or something. Maybe one of the posse gets out of control and the player steps in and the cops come and the player is arrested. Perhaps he didn't do anything wrong but he still was arrested.

Well no, we don't know what the Bengals or the NFL have done. Isn't that we why we're discussing the possibilities :confused:

As for the other possibilites you mention, well, domestic abuse isn't currently the widespread problem on this team. If I'm a counselor for a person who has a drug problem, I address the drug problem. I don't put him in a spousal abuse program. You look at a problem, you try to pinpoint it and find the solution. You don't address all the problems of the world at once.


Is this a problem because of a lack of education or is it a behavioral problem? If it's the former, that's easy enough to fix. But if it's the latter, that's a little tougher.

Of course. But education can't hurt either of these things, it can only help both. Because one is harder than the other, does that mean it should not be tried?

Look, all I'm saying is that this appears to be a problem consistent throughout the organization, and given the very public nature of the profession and the face that it directly affects a competitive team's ability on the field (ie. their ability goes down if a bunch of their players aren't permitted to play), it would not be out of line at this point for the Bengals to step in and address it from an organizational standpoint rather than dealing with consequences on a case-by-case basis. yes, maybe they already have. Normally I feel that adults make these decisions on their own and suffer the consequences on their own. But when the problem becomes widespread, preventative measures rather than punishing ones alone can be called for. Especially since this is a problem where people could get seriously hurt as a result.

Chip R
12-10-2006, 10:59 PM
Well no, we don't know what the Bengals or the NFL have done. Isn't that we why we're discussing the possibilities :confused:


Well, considering that every time this happens, after people blame the player they blame the organization for not doing enough to keep these players from being arrested. Remember when Freel was arrested for DUI? I believe he did a program with MLB and/or the Reds about the dangers of alcohol abuse. That was great but it didn't stop him from getting arrested again after getting into a bar fight in Florida during the offseason when he was drinking. He didn't get a DUI so that was good but he got arrested for something that happened when he was drinking and that's not good and it's a behavioral problem.


As for the other possibilites you mention, well, domestic abuse isn't currently the widespread problem on this team. If I'm a counselor for a person who has a drug problem, I address the drug problem. I don't put him in a spousal abuse program. You look at a problem, you try to pinpoint it and find the solution. You don't address all the problems of the world at once.


That's terrific but we are not just talking about DUI arrests - although that does seem prevalent. We are talking about a football team who has had 8 of its players arrested in the past year. Some were for DUI, others were for different things. Tonight or tomorrow or next week someone may get arrested for assault or domestic abuse or drugs or solicitation or stealing a car or, yes, even DUI again. If they can get rid of the DUIs, that's fantastic. But you might have other problems. I'll bet anyone on here that Chris Henry gets in some kind of legal trouble within the next year. I hope not. I hope he's learned his lesson and becomes a model citizen from here on out. But guys like him don't usually change no matter how much you educate them. That's a behavioral problem.



Of course. But education can't hurt either of these things, it can only help both. Because one is harder than the other, does that mean it should not be tried?

Look, all I'm saying is that this appears to be a problem consistent throughout the organization, and given the very public nature of the profession and the face that it directly affects a competitive team's ability on the field (ie. their ability goes down if a bunch of their players aren't permitted to play), it would not be out of line at this point for the Bengals to step in and address it from an organizational standpoint rather than dealing with consequences on a case-by-case basis. yes, maybe they already have. Normally I feel that adults make these decisions on their own and suffer the consequences on their own. But when the problem becomes widespread, preventative measures rather than punishing ones alone can be called for. Especially since this is a problem where people could get seriously hurt as a result.


I never said education shouldn't be tried. It should. Any idea should be tried if it has some hope of working. But you are just focused on the DUIs and while that's a prevalent problem, it's not the only problem. You may fix one problem but another one may crop up. If the Bengals are serious about solving - or at least lessening - these problem, they have to figure out why they are happening. Maybe the Bengals aren't serious. Yeah, it's a PR blow but it's not as bad as being a perennial loser was. Some say you need those certain "type" of players in there to win and you can educate these guys about being model citizens and if it works, great. But if education doesn't work, then it's a behavioral problem.