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Wheelhouse
12-10-2006, 12:32 PM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061210/COL03/612100453/1071

savafan
12-10-2006, 02:14 PM
Daugherty gets to vote on who goes in the HOF? That's frightening.

westofyou
12-10-2006, 02:17 PM
Daugherty gets to vote on who goes in the HOF? That's frightening.

Yep, and Rob Neyer doesn't have a vote.

TeamCasey
12-10-2006, 02:52 PM
I agree with Paul and Marty.

Cooper
12-10-2006, 05:39 PM
As i understand this: Paul and Marty are expecting others to be involved in the process i.e. if they know something they should tell it. If that's the case: did Marty know of any Red who used steroids or greenies over the last 35 years? Is he gonna report it?

PressBox
12-10-2006, 06:03 PM
I'm not bringing this up because of an agenda against Marty Brenneman. I have always liked and still like him. I'm just confused about something here...

Paul quotes Marty Brenneman in this article: "Our game more than any other enhances the possibility of cheating, because we don't address it sufficiently."
Earlier in the article, Paul surmises Marty's belief that McGwire epitomizes the whole problem presented by the steroid-era in MLB.

I took from this article that MB (and PD) are absolutely opposed to McGwire ever getting into the HOF. The reasons cited would go something like this:
(1) he cheated in baseball
(2) baseball must sufficiently address the steroid issue, which drives a stake through the heart of baseball's integrity as an American institution.

Fine. I have no real problem with this. For the reasons cited above, McGwire should be kept out of Cooperstown. But then I do have a problem with a seeming double-standard here. If MB really does feel this way about McGwire, why does he continue to be such a strong supporter to get Pete Rose into the HOF?

Even with all the unique circumstances that separate Rose's HOF case from McGwire's, the bottom-line decision is the same. Both cheated in baseball. Both undermined the game's integrity.

So how is it that MB (I don't recall where PD stands) is still calling for Pete Rose in the HOF? I don't quite understand the difference.

Has Marty reversed his position on Rose? If so, I missed it. Am I reading this all wrong?

dsmith421
12-10-2006, 06:49 PM
Daugherty's use of cliches and tortured analogies is far more offensive to me than McGwire's alleged use of steroids.

jimbo
12-10-2006, 07:17 PM
So how is it that MB (I don't recall where PD stands) is still calling for Pete Rose in the HOF? I don't quite understand the difference.


I'm not speaking for MB, but I would imagine it's because Rose's actions did not create an unfair advantage on the playing field.

toledodan
12-10-2006, 08:53 PM
andro was not banned in baseball while mcgwire played. i still don't understand why people don't get this. i don't care how it looked in congress that day they still have NO EVIDENCE that mcgwire broke baseball rules. also if i'm not mistaken couldn't you go into your local gnc and but andro at the time?

savafan
12-10-2006, 09:39 PM
andro was not banned in baseball while mcgwire played. i still don't understand why people don't get this. i don't care how it looked in congress that day they still have NO EVIDENCE that mcgwire broke baseball rules. also if i'm not mistaken couldn't you go into your local gnc and but andro at the time?

Do you really believe that andro is all McGwire took?

steig
12-10-2006, 10:49 PM
My opinion is that McGwire does not deserve to get into the HOF. There were rumors about McGwire and Canseco using steroids dating back to 1989 and Canseco discussed their steroid use in his book. I know Canseco is not anything close to a boy sccout but who else are you going to get any information out about what was going on behind the scenes. If McGwire was using steroids from early in his career, which he has not denied, then all of his career marks on tainted and he does not deserve to get into the HOF. The only potential steroid player I would consider for the HOF is Bonds, simply b/c you can see a distinct change when he started taking steroids and base his career on two parts. He was a certain HOFer with the first part. I don't think you can put all the potential steroid players in or out of the HOF. The system certainly won't be fair but in the end hopefully the voters will get the best players of the time in the HOF.

toledodan
12-10-2006, 11:14 PM
Do you really believe that andro is all McGwire took?


savafan, it doesn't matter what i believe there just is no proof. all i know mcgwire hit 49 homeruns his rookie year even when he was as thin as a rail. the problem is during the steroid era how many pitchers were on performance enhancers as well. its hard to imagine that some of the top pitchers weren't taking them. without having a positive test on the players how could we keep anyone out that may deserve number wise to get in? its a real sad situation for sure.:(

Yachtzee
12-10-2006, 11:26 PM
Do you really believe that andro is all McGwire took?

McGwire doesn't want to talk about the past. :dunno:

Palmiero says he has never taken steriods. Period. :nono:
(Except for that vitamin shot. Stupid Tejada :doh:)

Yachtzee
12-10-2006, 11:30 PM
Yep, and Rob Neyer doesn't have a vote.

Why there isn't more of an outcry as to who gets to vote for Hall of Famers, I'll never know. Everybody debates who should be or shouldn't be in the Hall, but there doesn't seem to be much debate on who gets to decide.

toledodan
12-10-2006, 11:34 PM
McGwire doesn't want to talk about the past. :dunno:

its a real shame he said it that way. everyone there knew he took andro so there was no point in talking about it. the problem for mcwire was he was already out of baseball and really had no way of clearing his name. IMO he should be allowed in the HOF if he can take a lie detector test and past.

TeamCasey
12-11-2006, 10:38 AM
its a real shame he said it that way.

Sure is, you could have persuaded me otherwise, before that hearing.

No way he should go in with Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken.

registerthis
12-11-2006, 11:51 AM
andro was not banned in baseball while mcgwire played. i still don't understand why people don't get this.

Gosh, yes, this point hasn't been hammered home enough times. If you show me where it says that someone HAS to be voted for the HoF, then I might be persuaded by your argument. However, no one is mandated to be in the HoF, they get in by the grace of the HoF voters. Whether or not McGwire "technically" broke the rules with his steroid usage is irrelevant to this discussion. McGwire's tainted in a lot of people's eyes, and like TeamCasey said I can't imagine many people would be thrilled to induct him alongside the likes of Ripken and Gwynn.

Wheelhouse
12-11-2006, 01:07 PM
Daugherty gets to vote on who goes in the HOF? That's frightening.

Yep, he does. His curriculum vitae:

Paul Daugherty has been an Enquirer sports columnist since 1994 and has been chronicling Cincinnati sports since 1988. He has covered almost every major sporting event in America, as well as five Summer Olympics. Along the way, he has been named one of the country's top-5 sports columnists four times, and Ohio columnist of the year on seven different occasions. Last year, he was voted 2nd-best sports columnist in the country, by the Associated Press Sports Editors.

PuffyPig
12-11-2006, 06:15 PM
I'm not speaking for MB, but I would imagine it's because Rose's actions did not create an unfair advantage on the playing field.

I'm not sure if you can say that. Rose allegedly bet on the Reds to win. That may have influenced his actions as manager in a "win now at all costs" mentality, vs. a "do what's best for the long haul" theory.