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Krusty
12-13-2006, 10:34 AM
If you're the Reds would you offer a three year, 27 million dollar deal to RHP Jeff Suppan.....given what the market is dictating?

redsfanmia
12-13-2006, 10:40 AM
Why spend that kind of money on Suppan? With him the Reds win 72 games instead of 65, what makes any difference?

Heath
12-13-2006, 10:54 AM
You are spending the same money for Jeff Suppan than you are for Eric Milton.

Just sayin'

Will M
12-13-2006, 11:11 AM
No

Suppan is a #4 starter. We don't need another one of those, especially for $$$

shredda2000
12-13-2006, 11:17 AM
I really like his GB/FB ratio (career 1.39, 1.61 in 2006), which I think would work well in GABP with the improved infield defense. However, 3 years at 9 mil/per is a bit too much. I would probably go 2 years though...

PuffyPig
12-13-2006, 11:21 AM
It's likely a moot guestion, as Suppan will likely get 4 years at $11-12M per season.

Spitball
12-13-2006, 03:16 PM
A week ago, I was against signing him for that kind of money, $27 mil for three years. Now, I'm a little more desperate and would offer it to him. However, PuffyPig is probably right about his current price tag, and I'd say no.

Ravenlord
12-13-2006, 04:39 PM
only if Suppan was three years younger.

oneupper
12-13-2006, 05:20 PM
There is WAY too much downside risk with Suppan.

Which one do you get: Pre ASG Suppan (5.83 ERA)
or Post ASG Suppan (2.39 ERA)

One of those is the evil twin.

Dracodave
12-13-2006, 05:21 PM
Could he build a restruant here (Soups on) to attract more people to come to Cincinnati and then have a era below 4? Because both would be welcomed addition.

AdamDunn
12-13-2006, 05:23 PM
No... we need to get younger, not older. Plus the market is going nuts... I wouldn't sign ANY free agent starting pitcher unless he was a #1 pitcher and I know for sure that I have a shot at making the playoffs. That would require homegrowing some #1 or #2 starting pitchers from the farm system and/or getting lucky in a trade (like we did with Arroyo) which would probably take some time.

Highlifeman21
12-13-2006, 05:24 PM
Suppan would be a welcomed addition as a #3 in my book.

He reinvented himself with the Cardinals and enjoyed some success. He's a pitcher, at this stage of his career, not a thrower.

Homer Bailey could learn a thing or two from this guy.

Krusty
12-14-2006, 10:50 AM
How much of a difference is there between Suppan and Arroyo or Harang?

The guy will give you between 180-200 IPs along with 12-16 wins.

Now if you can guarantee that Milton and Lohse will provide that in the third and four spots of the rotation, I would feel more comfortable. But with the uncertain status of Claussen, we could be depending on Ramirez and Belisle to provide innings at the fifth spot, which is no sure thing.

Falls City Beer
12-14-2006, 11:15 AM
This discussion is moot. I'm as likely to turn into Don Knotts as the Reds are to sign a FA pitcher.

Chip R
12-14-2006, 11:21 AM
Suppan would be a welcomed addition as a #3 in my book.

He reinvented himself with the Cardinals and enjoyed some success. He's a pitcher, at this stage of his career, not a thrower.

Homer Bailey could learn a thing or two from this guy.


And when he gets off track, Dave Duncan won't be there to fix him. Pass.

savafan
12-15-2006, 02:10 PM
Looks like the Brewers are going to try to land Suppan.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=542297

By TOM HAUDRICOURT
thaudricourt@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Dec. 14, 2006

If Jeff Suppan could pitch nearly as effectively for the Milwaukee Brewers as he has against them, it's easy to see why they're interested in pursuing the free agent right-hander.

Brewers general manager Doug Melvin confirmed Thursday that he expects to put a proposal together to make to Suppan's agent, Seth Leventhal. After Barry Zito, considered the top pitcher on the market this winter, Suppan probably is the most attractive free-agent pitcher yet to sign.

"He's still a productive pitcher, and he's a durable guy," Melvin said. "He has won 44 games the past three seasons. He has a good work ethic and he has pitched in some big games. He'd be a good influence on our other pitchers."

Whether the Brewers can make a competitive offer for Suppan, in what has been an overheated free-agent market, remains to be seen. Several teams are showing interest in him, including the San Francisco Giants and New York Mets, who have deeper pockets than the Brewers. Colorado, Pittsburgh and Kansas City also have made inquiries.

How hard St. Louis will try to keep Suppan remains to be seen. He boosted his stock considerably in the post-season with the World Series champs, earning most valuable player honors in the National League Championship Series by allowing only five hits and one run in 15 innings against the New York Mets.

Suppan allowed three runs in six innings against Detroit in Game 4 of the World Series, which the Cardinals won, 5-4.

Suppan, who will be 32 on Jan. 2, has had his way against the Brewers during his career, going 12-2 with a 3.29 earned run average in 21 starts. Over the past two seasons, he is 5-0 with a 1.92 ERA in 10 outings.

It might not be smart for Suppan to pitch for the Brewers, however. Subtract his 12-2 record against them and he is 94-99 for his career.

Melvin said Leventhal gave reasons in a telephone conversation why Suppan might be interested in pitching in Milwaukee. One reason might be Suppan's career record in Miller Park: 5-0 with a 1.76 ERA in seven starts.

"I think (Suppan's receptiveness) is sincere," Melvin said. "I don't want to go into detail because I don't want to tip my hand to other teams."

Based on contracts given to free-agent pitchers this winter, Suppan won't be cheap. He has fared better over the past three seasons (44-26) than Gil Meche (28-23), who received $55 million over five years from Kansas City, and Ted Lilly (37-34), who signed a four-year, $40 million deal with the Chicago Cubs.

The Brewers need one more starting pitcher to put in their rotation with Ben Sheets, Chris Capuano, Dave Bush and Claudio Vargas.

Melvin, whose payroll is expected to increase from $54 million to beyond $60 million in 2007, said he thought he could put together a competitive offer for Suppan.

"I'm going to sit down and take a look at it," Melvin said. "I'm not sure the money (paid other pitchers) is still out there. "I think we could probably put together a competitive offer."

Dracodave
12-15-2006, 02:32 PM
Based on contracts given to free-agent pitchers this winter, Suppan won't be cheap. He has fared better over the past three seasons (44-26) than Gil Meche (28-23), who received $55 million over five years from Kansas City, and Ted Lilly (37-34), who signed a four-year, $40 million deal with the Chicago Cubs.


And thats exactly wy he wont be worth the pricetag.

Meche was not offered a contract by the M's. That should speak volumes about him. Now he's getting overpaid.

Suppan has success in our division, but I doubt his price tag will be less than Meches...and Im not quite sure he's worth 55+ million.

:KoolAid:

Reds1
12-15-2006, 02:52 PM
Well, we need somebody and the pickins are getting slim. 9 mil for 3 years I would say is huge, but seeing these other signings that's probably a fair deal. It would push and EX or Loshe out of the starting line up. I said yes, but I'm a minority

KoryMac5
12-15-2006, 02:57 PM
Know need to look into this one the Brew Crew are making a pretty solid offer of 4yrs for 44million according to MLBTraderumors.com. He's 5-0 lifetime at Miller Park with a very good ERA. Another pitcher goes by the wayside.

Kc61
12-15-2006, 04:30 PM
No, why sign a solid pitcher for the middle of the rotation at market price? We wouldn't want to do that.

So he's too expensive, he's not good enough, he's too old, he's maybe a 4 not a 3, the market is nuts, we can do better, the annual amount is like Milton's, there's downside risk.

Meanwhile, Suppan just won a ring and the 80-82 Reds are busy shrewdly picking up some AAA lefty off the waiver wire.

Suppan? In a hearbeat.

Handofdeath
12-15-2006, 06:06 PM
I'd sign Russ Ortiz. He''ll cost half that and he'd be a steal if the new pitching coach gets him anywhere near his 1999-2004 numbers.

Ravenlord
12-15-2006, 06:18 PM
I'd sign Russ Ortiz. He''ll cost half that and he'd be a steal if the new pitching coach gets him anywhere near his 1999-2004 numbers.

you mean freakishly low BABIPs? don't think the pitching coach helps much with that.

Handofdeath
12-15-2006, 07:50 PM
you mean freakishly low BABIPs? don't think the pitching coach helps much with that.

I'm talking about averaging 15 wins and an ERA just under 4. How's that for a #3 starter. Wait a minute, isn't that about what the Reds top 2 starters did this past season?

Slyder
12-15-2006, 08:43 PM
You sign him and he comes into town as the 1st half of last years self we would be calling for his head, Krivsky's head, the owner's head, Narron's head, and the pretzel boy's head (why? The pretzels are under cooked when he pitches) by the end of May. Right now the market is set to blow up in a bunch of people's faces (mainly the Flubs) do we want to get another ??? pitcher for Milton or Dunn type money that we gotta drag around for another 3-4 yrs? Market sucks and we got to deal with it but go for quality not quantity.

savafan
12-15-2006, 08:51 PM
Market sucks and we got to deal with it but go for quality not quantity.

Well, the Reds don't seem to be going for either right now.

Raisor
12-15-2006, 11:03 PM
I'm talking about averaging 15 wins


You lost me at using "wins" as a sorting stat.

Highlifeman21
12-17-2006, 02:37 PM
And when he gets off track, Dave Duncan won't be there to fix him. Pass.

You're saying Dick Pole can't give him a tune up?

Maybe Dave Duncan truly is the most valuable asset to the Cardinals organization.

BEETTLEBUG
12-17-2006, 05:15 PM
I think Russ Ortiz would be a decent pickup cause I read that he was doing real good in the Winter League and would be less than Suppan for say 2 years plus option.

mth123
12-17-2006, 05:33 PM
I think Russ Ortiz would be a decent pickup cause I read that he was doing real good in the Winter League and would be less than Suppan for say 2 years plus option.

I'd make him a AAA player with a spring invitation. This is Joe Mays waiting to happen IMO. If he puts up a good April I trade him. If not I thank him for his time and cut him loose.

OR:

I just stay away completely.

Dracodave
12-17-2006, 05:48 PM
I'd make him a AAA player with a spring invitation. This is Joe Mays waiting to happen IMO. If he puts up a good April I trade him. If not I thank him for his time and cut him loose.

OR:

I just stay away completely.


I agree completely, Russ sucked last year and the year before horribly.

Our best bet is more "major league ready pitchers" we can get cheap..give them a shot and if they fail send them back down..try again. We can't afford to pay 1mil to Russ then have him suck. Thats not in our budget.:evil:

Chip R
12-17-2006, 06:58 PM
You're saying Dick Pole can't give him a tune up?

Pole may be a great pitching coach. But it's been my experience that the really great ones stay in one place for a long time. I am just skeptical that Pole is going to turn out to be the next Mazzone or Duncan. But even if he is good, and the Reds signed Suppan, maybe Suppan gets into a slump and even though Pole is saying all the right things, there is that doubt in the back of Suppan's mind that Pole isn't the man for the job because he's not Dave Duncan. Call it lack of confidence or superstition but it could be an issue. Suppan wasn't that great before he came to StL. I don't know what Duncan did for him but if Duncan was the key, I would be skeptical of Suppan's future success anywhere but where Duncan is the pitching coach.


Maybe Dave Duncan truly is the most valuable asset to the Cardinals organization.


You may be right.

savafan
12-17-2006, 07:21 PM
Was Duncan the pitching coach for the late 80s/early 90s Oakland teams? I'm looking at the numbers of guys like Dave Stewart and Mike Moore, and they had no where near the success they did before coming to Oakland. Welch was good, but he wasn't 27 wins good...

wheels
12-17-2006, 07:35 PM
Why didn't the Cards want to re sign him?

If they think he's not worth bringing back for that kind of dough, why should the Reds?

savafan
12-17-2006, 07:50 PM
Why didn't the Cards want to re sign him?

If they think he's not worth bringing back for that kind of dough, why should the Reds?

Excellent point, especially considering the Cards are looking at throwing guys like Looper out there every five days.

wheels
12-17-2006, 07:51 PM
Excellent point, especially considering the Cards are looking at throwing guys like Looper out there every five days.

Yup.

I think it's a good idea to not do the exact opposite of the winning organizations.

Chip R
12-17-2006, 09:37 PM
Why didn't the Cards want to re sign him?

If they think he's not worth bringing back for that kind of dough, why should the Reds?


Are they not interested in bringing him back? If he's smart, he'll go back for less than what he'll make elsewhere.

wheels
12-17-2006, 10:03 PM
Are they not interested in bringing him back? If he's smart, he'll go back for less than what he'll make elsewhere.

I really believe that they know there are better options out there.

They probably would have signed him by now, and they're entertaining the notion that Looper can be a starter.

Dracodave
12-17-2006, 10:05 PM
I really believe that they know there are better options out there.

They probably would have signed him by now, and they're entertaining the notion that Looper can be a starter.


I don't blame personally. Looper even stated when he HAD to throw his other pitches he was successfull. Perhaps the Reds should do this with certian pitchers who relay on just one out pitch? Put them in pressure situations where they have to learn to trust themselves.:devil:

Patrick Bateman
12-17-2006, 10:12 PM
I'm talking about averaging 15 wins and an ERA just under 4. How's that for a #3 starter. Wait a minute, isn't that about what the Reds top 2 starters did this past season?

Suppan's DIPS ERA has been around 4.60 over the last 3 years, with a low of 4.48. In a hitters park, expect an ERA around 5.

wheels
12-17-2006, 10:13 PM
I don't blame personally. Looper even stated when he HAD to throw his other pitches he was successfull. Perhaps the Reds should do this with certian pitchers who relay on just one out pitch? Put them in pressure situations where they have to learn to trust themselves.:devil:


I'm not so sure about that one.:D

Dracodave
12-17-2006, 10:18 PM
Heeey You caught my sense of sarcasm about the Reds though. I can see us using Majeskwi as a starter.......

Dear god...

wheels
12-17-2006, 10:24 PM
Heeey You caught my sense of sarcasm about the Reds though. I can see us using Majeskwi as a starter.......

Dear god...

I just hope Majewski's arm doesn't fall off.

Dracodave
12-17-2006, 10:25 PM
You'll turn off the Tv, raido or whatever first..

They may even postpone the telecast. :eek:

vaticanplum
12-17-2006, 10:25 PM
You guys have got to be kidding me. Seriously, Russ Ortiz is one of the worst pitchers currently employed as far as I'm concerned. The man's 2006 ERA with Baltimore was 8.48. EIGHT POINT FOUR EIGHT.

8.48

This was his 2006 line with Baltimore:
0-3/40.1 IP/8.48 ERA/59 H/39 R/38 ER/15 HR/23 SO

and combined Arizona/Baltimore:
0-8/63 IP/8.14 ERA/86 H/60 R/57 ER/18 HR/44 SO

birdsinthebelfry.com (http://www.birdsinthebelfry.com/pinata_2006.htm) provides some further insight into Ortiz's season. That season ERA is the 20th worst in modern history for pitchers with at least 60 innings. The 8.48 ERA (8.48!) is the WORST for any Orioles pitcher ever in a season with more than 40 innings. With the O's, he allowed 13.17 H/9 IP and 3.35 HR/9 IP.

8.48!!!

Oh man I swear if the Reds take any kind of "gamble" on this man I am moving to Mexico. I would take four injured Eric Miltons before I would take Russ Ortiz. And this is not high praise for Milton.

8.48! 8.48!!!!

Dracodave
12-17-2006, 10:26 PM
VP...

Chill.

I hate Russ too :thumbup:

Btw..

8.48? I was thinking it was above 9.

Way to prove me wrong.

Chip R
12-18-2006, 12:41 AM
8.48! 8.48!!!!

You know, he wasn't too bad with ATL. But that goes to what I was saying about Suppan. As much as Ortiz was a Mazzone product, I think Suppan is also. But someone is going to overpay for him, probably the loser of the Zito sweepstakes, and while he won't have the success he had in StL, he'll be crying all the way to the bank.