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Ltlabner
12-14-2006, 08:02 AM
Who is the player that has most frustrated you?

Maybe it's that "potential all-star" that you loved but he never quite developed?

Maybe it's a pitcher that pitches brilliantly durring the season and collapases during the playoffs?

Maybe it's a player who was a stud but squandered his tallent on wine, women and/or song?

Maybe it's a player who ever time you started to think was an ok guy, opened his mouth and said another stupid/digusting comment?

Any team, any era, any league. So many players, so many reasons to be frustrated.

NOTE: I hate having to add these little tag lines, but here goes. If you want to vote for Dunner, that's fine, but in no way is this thread intended to have anything to do with a dunn-bash-fest. Hopefully there are more players in the entirity of baseball to consider for this honor than the big man.

Spitball
12-14-2006, 08:11 AM
Toe Nash blew it for a variety of reasons.

Redhook
12-14-2006, 08:17 AM
Unfortunately, for me, it's Dunn by a landslide. If traded, our offense would be non-existent, but he still drives me crazy alot of the time.

Two other guys would be Jack Armstrong and Ty Howington. I thought Armstrong was our next ace, then he flamed out quickly. And although it's not his fault because he got hurt, Howington seemed to start this trend of Red's top minor league pitcher's getting hurt and never helping the big club. Hopefully Bailey will stop this trend.

Crosley68
12-14-2006, 08:18 AM
Chris Sabo for his inability to lay off the slider off the plate.

Danny Graves for always putting runners on base.

Austin Kearns for teasing me with his talent, but never putting it all together.

Pete Rose for finding a way to annoy Bud on a regular basis.

Curt Shilling for thinking that we think what he thinks is important.

Barry Bonds for thinking we are just plain stupid.

Redhook
12-14-2006, 08:19 AM
Toe Nash blew it for a variety of reasons.

I actually thought about mentioning him, but I know so little about him. Have you or anyone else on Redszone seen him play? How good was/is he? I've only heard random stories.

George Anderson
12-14-2006, 08:52 AM
Who is the player that has most frustrated you?

Maybe it's that "potential all-star" that you loved but he never quite developed?

Maybe it's a pitcher that pitches brilliantly durring the season and collapases during the playoffs?

Maybe it's a player who was a stud but squandered his tallent on wine, women and/or song?

Maybe it's a player who ever time you started to think was an ok guy, opened his mouth and said another stupid/digusting comment?

Any team, any era, any league. So many players, so many reasons to be frustrated.

NOTE: I hate having to add these little tag lines, but here goes. If you want to vote for Dunner, that's fine, but in no way is this thread intended to have anything to do with a dunn-bash-fest. Hopefully there are more players in the entirity of baseball to consider for this honor than the big man.


Eric Davis is the first one that comes to mind. He had an outstanding career but he never really lived up to the "Willie Mays" hype he had when he first came up.

Paul Householder, Kal Daniels, Brad Lesley, and Willie Greene were all guys that I thought could be perenial All Stars for the Reds.

Falls City Beer
12-14-2006, 08:54 AM
In the last decade: Kearns. It's not even close.

I always found Paul O'Neill frustrating as a Red.

I find a lot of Reds frustrating on some level--only Davis and Larkin crapped gold cufflinks in my lifetime.

RANDY IN INDY
12-14-2006, 09:06 AM
The one that sticks out in my mind is the player that caused Tony Perez to be traded to Montreal. He of the consistent warning track power. The uncle of Gerald Perry. The incomparable one from Hilton Head, South Carolina...............................Dan Driessen.

Roy Tucker
12-14-2006, 09:08 AM
Back a ways, the Reds had a parade of pitchers that frustrated me. Frank Pastore, Bruce Berenyi, Paul Moskau, Joe Price, Jack Armstrong, Ross Grimsley, Mo Sanford, and others I'm forgetting. They just could never seem to get it together.

Other big potential guys are Willie Greene (the poster child of unfulfilled expectations), Kal Daniels (so much ability and he blew it), Gary Redus, and Paul Konerko (the Reds jerked him around between 1B and 3B).

Lesser talented but still frustrating were Paul Householder, Harry Spilman, Duane Walker, Nick Esasky, Mike Kelley, and Scott Winchester.

Pokey and Gookey deserve special mention.

And Cesar Cedeno, the supposed savior of the franchise in the early 80's and it became rapidly apparent his gas tank was empty.

TRF
12-14-2006, 09:08 AM
In the last decade: Kearns. It's not even close.

I always found Paul O'Neill frustrating as a Red.

I find a lot of Reds frustrating on some level--only Davis and Larkin crapped gold cufflinks in my lifetime.

My grandpa hated O'Neill. Said he'd trade him for a wheelbarrow.

I miss my grandpa.

MrCinatit
12-14-2006, 09:10 AM
Griffey has been rather frustrating as a Red, as difficult as it is for me to admit that. I have been pulling for him all along, but it seems that age/injury bug keeps on a-biting. And there was so much hope when the trade came about.
Sabo frustrated the heck out of me because he had so much talent - but was not a smart ball player.
I'd always had hopes for Mark Lewis, for some reason, and he never did come through for me.
And, yeah, Kearns.
And whatever happened to the player who (according to Marty) was supposed to change it all - Motorboat Jones?

redsupport
12-14-2006, 09:21 AM
Guy Hoffman couldhave been as good as Warren Spahn, but alas, he wasn't

redsmetz
12-14-2006, 09:37 AM
In the last decade: Kearns. It's not even close.

I always found Paul O'Neill frustrating as a Red.


I'll agree with FCB on these too. I thought for sure that O'Neill was too emotionally fragile to make in New York, but he absolutely thrived there, much to all of our frustration. He chafed under his managers here and was a great, solid ballplayer for the Yankees.

Folks are doing great in not making this a Dunn bashfest, but as much as I don't want him traded, the "all or nothing" that is his offense is certainly maddening. If he ever fills out his game without harnessing his power - WOW!

dfs
12-14-2006, 09:38 AM
Kearns far and away.

IowaRed
12-14-2006, 09:39 AM
Williamson't bouts of wildness drove me crazy. I have to echo Cedeno and Pastore as choices. Cedeno was my favorite non-Red during that time and I remember being very excited when he came to Cincinnati, only to have those hopes shot down. I also remember Pastore's mechanics being likened to Tom Seaver so expectations were extremely high

redsfan30
12-14-2006, 09:48 AM
Austin Kearns....can't be anyone else in recent Reds history.

Johnny Footstool
12-14-2006, 09:48 AM
Roberto Kelly.

Pat Pacillo.

Willie Greene.

Dmitri Young.

I was never frustrated by Austin Kearns -- I always pictured him as a good major leaguer, an occasional All-Star. I didn't believe the hype that he was the next Joe DiMaggio.

texasdave
12-14-2006, 09:59 AM
Austin Kearns in a landslide. Most frustrating situation however has been all those injuries to Junior. When the trade went down the sky seemed the limit. But Junior's body refused to cooperate.

redsupport
12-14-2006, 11:08 AM
I was most frustrated with Jesse Gonder. I think with a lot of patience and preparation he could have been as good as Don Pavletich

RFS62
12-14-2006, 11:13 AM
I was most frustrated with Jesse Gonder. I think with a lot of patience and preparation he could have been as good as Don Pavletich


I hated Pavletich when I was a kid. He took playing time from Johnny Edwards, my first favorite Red.

Edwards was very frustrating to me after he somehow forgot how to hit.

Roy Tucker
12-14-2006, 11:17 AM
I hated Pavletich when I was a kid. He took playing time from Johnny Edwards, my first favorite Red.

Edwards was very frustrating to me after he somehow forgot how to hit.

Funny you should mention this RFS. I was a big Edwards guy too and my dad rooted for Pavletich (or "Pav" as he called him). We always argued who was best.

Looking at Pavletich's numbers for 1965 and 1966 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pavledo01.shtml, it's a wonder that Edwards got any playing time. If RZ were in existence then, it would have been Ross-Larue-like discussion.

camisadelgolf
12-14-2006, 11:18 AM
Some Reds that come to mind: Dunn (strikeouts and clutch-hitting), any of the Boones, Willie Greene, Jose Acevedo and Hector Carrasco (mentored by Rijo), Reggie Sanders (strikeouts), Cesar Hernandez (base-running), Sean Casey (double plays) . . . okay, I guess pretty much everyone frustrates me.

marcshoe
12-14-2006, 11:22 AM
Reggie Sanders beginning with the '95 playoffs against the Braves. He had a breakout season that year, then the Braves exploited his weakness, and he never made it to the next level again.

chettt
12-14-2006, 11:23 AM
I would have to go with Roberto (call me Bobby) Kelly

RFS62
12-14-2006, 11:42 AM
Funny you should mention this RFS. I was a big Edwards guy too and my dad rooted for Pavletich (or "Pav" as he called him). We always argued who was best.

Looking at Pavletich's numbers for 1965 and 1966 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pavledo01.shtml, it's a wonder that Edwards got any playing time. If RZ were in existence then, it would have been Ross-Larue-like discussion.


Yeah, I'd love to see the RedsZone take on that one.

Edwards was light years better on defense. His hitting was more than adequate for a few years, then dropped off a ledge.

But in the low scoring '60's of pitching and defense, he was still valuable, even flirting with the Mendoza line.

westofyou
12-14-2006, 11:47 AM
But in the low scoring '60's of pitching and defense, he was still valuable, even flirting with the Mendoza line.

Because he had an arm, which around the appearance of Maury Wills all of the sudden became very important again for catchers.

marcshoe
12-14-2006, 11:50 AM
'course there are always Roger Nelson and Richie Scheinblum (I can't possibly have spelled that right). I thought the Reds got a pile of talent for Hal McRae (hey, I was eleven!) I have a crazy neighbor now named Roger Nelson who looks a little like the alleged pitcher...I wonder....

scounts22
12-14-2006, 11:54 AM
The entire Reds bullpen. For as long as I can remember.

oneupper
12-14-2006, 12:08 PM
00's Kearns (Brandon Larson is a worthy runner up)
90's Deion Sanders
80's Paul Householder
70's Bernie Carbo

Don't get me started on the pitchers.

RFS62
12-14-2006, 12:09 PM
MILT PAPPAS!!!!!!!1$!@#%@#^$%&^$@%!

:all_cohol

redsupport
12-14-2006, 12:13 PM
I was most frustrated with the enormous Tim Costo for Reggie Jefferson swap, I could never figure out why Jefferson was traded. Following that transaction, I was so morbidly chagrined that I took an immediate overdoes of sarin

chicoruiz
12-14-2006, 12:19 PM
Brett Tomko.

redsupport
12-14-2006, 12:29 PM
Jose Brito

M2
12-14-2006, 12:40 PM
Jack Armstrong turning into a half-year wonder was pretty frustrating. Kal Daniels flat out squandered HOF ability. Paul Moskau and Mike LaCoss weren't nearly the rotation saviors they were supposed to be.

D'Angelo Jiminez's flake out was pretty frustrating. Sean Casey half season good, half season not so good pattern was frustrating. Jr. only delivering one year anything like his Seattle form has been extremely frustrating. Adam Dunn's second half swoons in 2003 and 2006, particularly the more recent one, were maddening.

westofyou
12-14-2006, 12:43 PM
Willie Greene

All the tools, none of the drive.

savafan
12-14-2006, 12:50 PM
Todd Benzinger.

Everytime Nick Esasky hit another homerun in 1989, I kept watching the inept on base ability of Benzinger...

RedsManRick
12-14-2006, 01:00 PM
I was 5 years old in 1987 when I started paying attention to the Reds. The Reds had a couple of up and coming guys, notably Davis, but I like this guy named Kal Daniels. Of course, I played SS in little league so I also like that Larkin guy, but I wanted to like Daniels more because he hit home runs. I told people in Kindergarten that Daniels was the best player ever.

Yeah, so starting the next year I really got it to Barry and never looked back. But I remember being terribly disappointed that Kal Daniels never amounted to much.

Always Red
12-14-2006, 01:03 PM
Eric Davis.

My only frustration with Davis was how brittle he was. I was a teenager during the BRM days, and Davis was as good as any of those guys- he had incredible talent. From '86-'90 he was among the best I've seen, and he was always in and out of the lineup even then. The BRM crew were all mostly durable, and Davis was anything but; that's what kept him from being truly a great ballplayer.

My dad used to really despise Davis, called him "Erica" which a lot of older guys did back then. They were used to Rose playing 163 games a year. But the man was truly very brittle, and did play hurt a lot of the time. He finally let up on Davis a little bit when he had the kidney removed.

Davis remains one of my all time favorite Reds, and when I think back on his career, I always wonder "what could have been."

PS- Eric Davis remains one of the very men I've watched who could steal a base literally anytime he wanted.

westofyou
12-14-2006, 01:07 PM
My dad used to really despise Davis, called him "Erica" which a lot of older guys did back then.

What's really rich about that is that many of those taunts were from guys who worshiped the big arms and sense of durability from Ted Kluszewski, a guy who topped 150 games only twice in his career and was out of the game as a starter at age 32.

klw
12-14-2006, 01:08 PM
I actually thought about mentioning him, but I know so little about him. Have you or anyone else on Redszone seen him play? How good was/is he? I've only heard random stories.

Here is a link to a thread which has Toe Nash article links. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52001&highlight=toe+nash

redsfan30
12-14-2006, 01:11 PM
Ryan Wagner is another who could be considered. When he was on, his stuff was FILTHY.

Problem was, he was rarely on....

Always Red
12-14-2006, 01:13 PM
What's really rich about that is that many of those taunts were from guys who worshiped the big arms and sense of durability from Ted Kluszewski, a guy who topped 150 games only twice in his career and was out of the game as a starter at age 32.

exactly; Dad adored Klu with an emotion most nearly resembling veneration.

I'm trying hard not to become a bitter old man myself! ;)

Cyclone792
12-14-2006, 01:27 PM
Sean Casey is a guy I haven't seen listed who really frustrated the heck out of me due to his lack of power development.

Casey was a guy who only turned 26-years-old in 2000, and he had posted ISO marks of .207 and .202 in 1999 and 2000, respectively. He was a guy who I'd hope could post a consistent ISO between .200-.225 each season over the next four or five seasons, while possibly peaking a bit higher than that for one or two seasons. That type of hitter was the type of hitter the Reds needed in the middle of their lineup.

Instead his ISO went down instead of up. Home runs disappeared. Extra base hits disappeared. What became more prevalent with Casey's hitting game were double plays, however.

Casey's a great guy, outstanding for the community. But outside of his 2004 season - the only season he managed to duplicate his 1999 and 2000 ISO levels - Sean Casey has been somewhat of a disappointment for me in how he developed and produced at the plate.

zombie-a-go-go
12-14-2006, 01:27 PM
I was convinced that Ryan Dempster, in his brief stint with the Reds,was going to be the salvation of the pitching staff and lead them to the promised land. Now he's a Cub.

That's a disappointment.

Joey Hamilton, too... I always hated that kid.

zombie-a-go-go
12-14-2006, 01:28 PM
And Brandon Larson... he was teh Suck.

Strikes Out Looking
12-14-2006, 01:33 PM
Tom Seaver - 1982. Miltonesque before Milton.

M2
12-14-2006, 01:37 PM
I was convinced that Ryan Dempster, in his brief stint with the Reds,was going to be the salvation of the pitching staff and lead them to the promised land. Now he's a Cub.

That's a disappointment.

Good pick, Dempster could have been the bridge to something better, but actually helped put the franchise into a deeper tailspin. Aaron Harang IS the pitcher Dempster was SUPPOSED to be.

Though I take some comfort in Dempster being a Cub. At least the Reds get to face him more often. He's like a beacon of hope for the opposition every time he comes in to close a game.

Chip R
12-14-2006, 01:50 PM
I was most frustrated with the enormous Tim Costo for Reggie Jefferson swap, I could never figure out why Jefferson was traded. Following that transaction, I was so morbidly chagrined that I took an immediate overdoes of sarin


I believe that was a screwup by one of the GMs (Cook? Bergesch?). Something like they tried to send Jefferson down and the Indiians claimed him off waivers and they got Costo just to get something for him.

westofyou
12-14-2006, 01:55 PM
I believe that was a screwup by one of the GMs (Cook? Bergesch?). Something like they tried to send Jefferson down and the Indiians claimed him off waivers and they got Costo just to get something for him.

Quinn tired to use an option that didn't exist and the Indians claimed him

He had a sputtering career marked with injuries with some juicy numbers at his peak age

Team Clark
12-14-2006, 01:56 PM
Austin Kearns....can't be anyone else in recent Reds history.

I would have to agree on Kearns.

Todd Benzinger as well. He'd hit .335, .200, .290, .167, .300 I was glad to see Hal Morris come along.

redsupport
12-14-2006, 02:08 PM
Terry Lee

Spitball
12-14-2006, 02:12 PM
I believe that was a screwup by one of the GMs (Cook? Bergesch?). Something like they tried to send Jefferson down and the Indiians claimed him off waivers and they got Costo just to get something for him.

Right, and I believe Cleveland was being kind to send Costo. They could have just sent cash. Later, Bowden would protect Costo in the 1993expansion draft instead of Trevor Hoffman.

LoganBuck
12-14-2006, 02:17 PM
Mark Portugal, and Brian Moeller spring to mind. Both of them always managed to pull a Milton. Oh yeah Eric Milton counts, doesn't he? The proverbial 4+ inning starter. The guy that gets two outs in the fourth inning and then must give up at least one run and most of the time three.

redsupport
12-14-2006, 02:44 PM
Erik Hanson and Rich Gale
Scott bankhead and the next tom seaver, frank pastore

redsupport
12-14-2006, 02:45 PM
Mo Sanford the great prodigy
Santo Alcala instead of Joaquin Andujar
pheenom Duane Walker and Gary redus
USC star Dave van Gorder
minor league slugger Alan Knicely

Roy Tucker
12-14-2006, 03:25 PM
Erik Hanson and Rich Gale
Scott bankhead and the next tom seaver, frank pastore

Hey, we got rid of Bobby Ayala and got Brett Boone via Hanson.

dabvu2498
12-14-2006, 03:29 PM
I grew up in Louisville, so my first "team" was the Redbirds. I worshipped Gene Roof and Tito Landrum, meanwhile Andy VanSlyke, Willie McGee, and Vince Coleman were actually good. I discount about 3 years of my childhood because of this.

Reds: Brandon Larson, Ryan Wagner, Willie Greene, Terry McGriff and Reggie Sanders all come to mind.

M2
12-14-2006, 03:34 PM
Hey, we got rid of Bobby Ayala and got Brett Boone via Hanson.

I got free Red Sox tickets in 1995 via Erik Hanson (one of my friends played ball with him in high school), so he's perpetually all right in my book.

RANDY IN INDY
12-14-2006, 03:34 PM
Alex Johnson was a very frustrating sort. Talent and attitude off the radar.

Wayne Simpson's arm injury was one of the most frustrating injuries, ever, for the Reds. Boy, did he have some nasty stuff in the spring of 1970.

Ross Grimsley's inability to fit in with the Reds system was quite frustrating.

Merv Rettenmund sure couldn't do it for the Reds like he did for the Orioles.

Alex Trevino frustrated me terribly. His bat always looked way too big for him, but was always way too small to ever make contact with Alex's hitting skills.

Clint Hurdle. Enough said.

dabvu2498
12-14-2006, 03:35 PM
As a younger soul, I also thought Bill Gullickson and John Denney were excellent acquisitions.

15fan
12-14-2006, 03:50 PM
There's Brett Tomko.

Then there's a wide, huge, gaping chasm.

Then there's everyone else.

klw
12-14-2006, 04:12 PM
As a Reds fan I have to say there is little that frustrates me more that seeing that the opposing starting pitcher is either Roy Oswalt or Tom Glavine.

redsupport
12-14-2006, 04:58 PM
the most frustrating is picking branden larsen over lance berkman and trading claude osteen mike caldwell and mike cuellar and of course f. robby

gm
12-14-2006, 04:59 PM
Reggie Sanders beginning with the '95 playoffs against the Braves. He had a breakout season that year, then the Braves exploited his weakness, and he never made it to the next level again.

"Mr. Sandman, you make me scream..."

Rojo
12-14-2006, 05:39 PM
Good pick, Dempster could have been the bridge to something better, but actually helped put the franchise into a deeper tailspin. Aaron Harang IS the pitcher Dempster was SUPPOSED to be.

Good pick and good comment. Had Dempster delivered Bowden would still be here.

BenHayes
12-14-2006, 05:52 PM
Just about every starting pitcher the reds farm has produced in the last thirty years but the early to mid 1980s rotation of Soto, Pastore, Berenyi, Price, Leibrandt, Capilla, and Moskau was young somewhat talented and at one time strong armed. Man of all of these only Super Soto ever made a dent as a Red with i guess Paul Moskau or Frank Pastore being the biggest fizzle. I really thought those two as well as Bryan Ohio's Bruce Berenyi would be stars.

redsfanmia
12-14-2006, 06:40 PM
Dunn is by far the most frustrating fo me, I never really thought much of Kearns in fact I thought they should have dealt him for pitching after he got off to such a quick start. I thought Dunn would be an MVP candidate every year, boy was I wrong.

redsupport
12-14-2006, 07:11 PM
I thought you, Ben Hayes would be superlative

Willy
12-14-2006, 09:30 PM
This has been a nice stroll down memory lane, I agree with most of the guys on here that I remember(how old are some of you people:p: )

One guy that I was surprised wasn't mentioned was Kurt Stillwell.

I traded a Larkin baseball card for his:bash:

Rojo
12-14-2006, 10:07 PM
I'll toss in Tracy Jones. In 1987 Jones and Daniels were platoon partners for the most part. That year Daniels line was an eye-popping .334/.429/.617. He also added 26 homers and was 26 for 34 as on the bases. Jones was a respectable .290/.333/.437, 10 homers and 31 for 39.

What a great and disappointing platoon.

Cedric
12-14-2006, 10:18 PM
Kearns.

If you can't hustle for a ball over your head on Opening day we've got problems. I'm not even that worried about someone being scrappy or Charlie hustle either. It's just not a good sign.

Patpacillosjock
12-14-2006, 10:40 PM
Hal Morris (I thought he'd end up being a Mark Grace-type player)
Sabo (flamed out too quickly)

good thread.

cincinnati chili
12-14-2006, 10:43 PM
Jay Tibbs. And the manager who kept throwing him out there: Pete Rose.

Dom Heffner
12-14-2006, 10:56 PM
Kevin Mitchell. The man could mash but gosh he was a strange bird.

Nick Esasky. Flashes of greatness fulfilled on another team and then out of baseball.

Reggie Sanders.

Eddie Milner and Gary Redus did when I was a kid. I liked them so much I wanted them be twice as good as they actually were.

Kal Daniels. Pure hitter, lousy knee.

Patpacillosjock
12-14-2006, 10:58 PM
Kevin Mitchell. The man could mash but gosh he was a strange bird.

Nick Esasky. Flashes of greatness fulfilled on another team and then out of baseball.

Reggie Sanders.

Eddie Milner and Gary Redus did when I was a kid. I liked them so much I wanted them be twice as good as they actually were.

Kal Daniels. Pure hitter, lousy knee.

esasky had a serious condition of vertigo which is why he retired early.

Scrap Irony
12-14-2006, 11:01 PM
Good call on Tomko. Rijo, the first two or three years after the injury, too.

But #1 on my list is Dunn.

All-World potential.

But, at this point, that's all it is.

Dom Heffner
12-14-2006, 11:03 PM
esasky had a serious condition of vertigo which is why he retired early.

That's pretty frustrating, isn't it? lol.....

edabbs44
12-14-2006, 11:09 PM
Far and away....the immortal Joe Mays. Had high hopes for a sub 7 era last season...:)

Honestly, I think Kalvoski is right up there. One of my all-time favorite Reds and, if he stayed healthy, I think he'd be on the all-time Reds greats posts. I read a great quote about him once. It might have been Pete who said it. "Kal's the type of hitter who you could wake up a midnight and he would spray line drives all over the field." Or something like that.

I would throw AK in there as well...if only because of this guy.

http://www.nemendur.ru.is/aegir01/Pistlar/PistillMyndir/Fat_Bastard.gif

Friggin Ray King.

redsupport
12-14-2006, 11:36 PM
Jeff Jones
Chris JOnes
Sherm Roadblock JOnes

Cedric
12-14-2006, 11:51 PM
Having to look at the true creature ruined my child hood almost.

That's frustrating I guess.

Degenerate39
12-15-2006, 07:16 AM
Ken Griffey Jr. without a doubt. He was my favorite player growing up and when he went to my favorite team I was so happy. But then he got hurt so many times. The man could've had 700 some home runs by now if he stayed healthy.

dabvu2498
12-15-2006, 09:24 AM
Jeff Jones
Chris JOnes
Sherm Roadblock JOnes

Is one of those guys' real name "Motorboat"?

savafan
12-15-2006, 10:20 AM
Chris JOnes


Didn't Chris Jones set some kind of record like most consecutive hits by a Reds rookie or something? I remember when he first came up, he was en fuego.

westofyou
12-15-2006, 10:26 AM
Casey Stengel though Mantle was a slacker, K artist and a non hustling party boy.
Examples form print.


His genius lay not only in his knowledge of the game and in his capacity to get the most out of every last player on his successful teams but also in his ability to teach young players. This is why his biggest disappointment was Mickey Mantle's unwillingness to learn from him.



Only that Casey has always been excoriated for being too hard on Mantle. When Casey listed his all-time great players for this autobiography, he left Mickey off of the list, an obvious slight. Given that the public knew less at the time about Mantle's drinking and occasional lack of focus

RANDY IN INDY
12-15-2006, 10:39 AM
Kinda like some of Redszone is hard on Dunn.

maniem
12-15-2006, 12:14 PM
Wayne Krenchicki. I just used to love saying his name as a kid...

RANDY IN INDY
12-15-2006, 01:06 PM
Is one of those guys' real name "Motorboat"?

I believe "Motorboat's":) real name was Eugene.

RFS62
12-15-2006, 02:00 PM
I believe "Motorboat's":) real name was Eugene.


Didn't know that.

Motorboat is light years better than Eugene.

Jpup
12-15-2006, 02:13 PM
Danny Graves, Ryan Wagner, Austin Kearns, and Eric Milton.

cumberlandreds
12-15-2006, 02:14 PM
The one that sticks out in my mind is the player that caused Tony Perez to be traded to Montreal. He of the consistent warning track power. The uncle of Gerald Perry. The incomparable one from Hilton Head, South Carolina...............................Dan Driessen.


He is mine. He was built up to be this great player coming through the Reds farm system but it turned he was very average.
Two others in Driessens mold that never lived up to their hype was Paul Householder and Kal Daniels.

Always Red
12-15-2006, 02:23 PM
He is mine. He was built up to be this great player coming through the Reds farm system but it turned he was very average.

you could say the same thing about Paul Householder, who was supposedly the next Mickey Mantle, switch-hitting and all.

savafan
12-15-2006, 02:26 PM
Kevin Maas was another that I found really frustrating. I expected him to be the next big thing for the Yankees, and then he flamed out as quickly as he appeared.

cumberlandreds
12-15-2006, 02:32 PM
I watched the Braves a lot in the late 70's and early 80's and player they built up to be great who turned out to be a bust was Brad Komminsk. I think he struck out much more than not.
Some players who have drunk or drugged their way out of Hall of Fame greatness are Bobby Bonds,Sam McDowell,Dwight Gooden and Darell Strawberry. I'm sure there are plenty of others like that but I think they are the most obvious.

Strikes Out Looking
12-15-2006, 02:34 PM
You can tell everyone's age by there answers in this thread!

klw
12-15-2006, 02:54 PM
Roy Hobbs- despite all his talent he was only good for a few months of one season in his thirties and even that was derailed for a while by bad personal decisions.

Handofdeath
12-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Though he was in uniform for the Reds for only a brief time, I can't believe no one has mentioned Dave Williams.

BRM
12-15-2006, 04:30 PM
Though he was in uniform for the Reds for only a brief time, I can't believe no one has mentioned Dave Williams.

Most folks thought Williams would be terrible when he was acquired. The disappointing part is that he was ever put on the active roster.

Wheelhouse
12-15-2006, 04:35 PM
Dunn, far and away. The exact same adjectives were used to describe Dunn when he came up as Ryan Howard: an MVP-type player. But he's just gotten worse every year, while Ryan Howard grabbed his moment and ran with it. The most frustrating thing is seeing Dunn come into ST looking more and more like a slob every year.

RANDY IN INDY
12-15-2006, 04:35 PM
Dave Williams. That was one awful trade. O'Brien being O'Brien.

Handofdeath
12-15-2006, 04:39 PM
Most folks thought Williams would be terrible when he was acquired. The disappointing part is that he was ever put on the active roster.

I think what was disappointing was who got traded to get him. If Williams had a 2006 season with the Reds like his 2005 season with the Pirates people might be a little more kind towards him.

BRM
12-15-2006, 04:42 PM
I think what was disappointing was who got traded to get him. If Williams had a 2006 season with the Reds like his 2005 season with the Pirates people might be a little more kind towards him.

I definitely expected a better return for Casey.

PickOff
12-15-2006, 05:12 PM
Pete Rose
Ray Knight
Bob Boone
Dave Miley
Jerry Narron

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. And in my mind, past players count!

redsfanmia
12-16-2006, 07:06 PM
Dave Williams. That was one awful trade. O'Brien being O'Brien.

At the end of the day it was a good trade because we dumped Casey and his salary.

savafan
12-16-2006, 07:09 PM
At the end of the day it was a good trade because we dumped Casey and his salary.

But what good did it do? Where did the payflex go?

redsupport
12-16-2006, 07:27 PM
The most frustrating players for me are
Keith Kessinger why wasn't he the slugger like his father Don Kessinger
Ed Sprague the pitcher, if he knew he was going to give bith to a talented slugging son, why wasn't he a better pitcher
John Courtright and Jim Crowell if they both were going to have the same initials why couldn;t one of them be any good
The JR staff- Jeff Russell, John Roper, Jose Rijo, Jeff Reardon, Johnny Ruffin, and Jerry Reuss

Falls City Beer
12-16-2006, 07:32 PM
Keith Glauber

redsupport
12-16-2006, 07:38 PM
A felcitous submission. Much encomium goes to Falls City. Glauber a Rule 5 acquisition was touted to be the next Ted Weiand or possibly the next Mel Behney buy unceremoniously devolved into the hybrid miscegenation of Steve Blateric and Jeff Tabaka

Falls City Beer
12-16-2006, 07:41 PM
Geoff Combe, bellwether of the end of Disco Sucks events at stadia around the nation, turned up the heat on the opposition on sticky August nights in 1981.

redsupport
12-16-2006, 07:55 PM
Combe was the inspiration for the theme of Beowulf. Combe of course finished his career with the Reds, unbeaten, should he be reactivated?

Falls City Beer
12-16-2006, 08:14 PM
Combe was the inspiration for the theme of Beowulf. Combe of course finished his career with the Reds, unbeaten, should he be reactivated?

Combe received Hrunting from Dick Baney--who in turn failed to kill a pitch from Grendel's mother.

Jpup
12-16-2006, 09:27 PM
Todd Van Poppel and Brian Taylor.

Bonzo
12-16-2006, 10:37 PM
Even though he's a Cardinal... Rick Ankiel.

BoydsOfSummer
12-17-2006, 02:08 AM
Hal Morris used to drive me nuts. I'd scream "Quit dancing and turn on the damn ball you big blankity-blank". When I just accepted Hal for the hitter he was, my life became less stressful.

redsfanmia
12-17-2006, 07:38 AM
But what good did it do? Where did the payflex go?

Into this guys :castellini: pocket.

RANDY IN INDY
12-17-2006, 09:01 AM
At the end of the day it was a good trade because we dumped Casey and his salary.

I'm glad you think it was a good trade.

RANDY IN INDY
12-17-2006, 09:02 AM
It was a horrible trade.

redsfanmia
12-17-2006, 11:54 AM
I'm glad you think it was a good trade.

Any trade in which we dumped Casey is a good trade IMO. Never liked the guy, I thought at the time we should have kept Konerko and I was right. Oh well just an opinion.

redsupport
12-17-2006, 04:38 PM
if you wrote that five years ago it would be censored or you would be a pariah

vermonter
12-17-2006, 06:59 PM
I kind of expected to find Wily Mo Pena prominent in this thread, but either you guys have many more candidates (and I agree with Kal Daniels, Eric Davis and so many others mentioned here) or have just plumb forgotten about old Wily Mo.

As the new unofficial carrier of the WMP American League flame, I can say that the most frustrating thing about him for me is the fact that the Sox don't seem bent on playing him full time to see if the beast in him will ever be unleashed.

Is there such a thing as Wily Mo blue balls?

Ltlabner
12-17-2006, 07:46 PM
I'd agree with the Eric Davis choice. Fantastic ballplayer. Horrible "durability".

On a smaller level, Eric Milton. I've seen him pitch masterfull games where he had the other team baffled for the entire game. He'll turn in a few decent outings and then blamo.

RANDY IN INDY
12-17-2006, 08:02 PM
Any trade in which we dumped Casey is a good trade IMO. Never liked the guy, I thought at the time we should have kept Konerko and I was right. Oh well just an opinion.

Regardless of your disdain for Casey, it still..............................was a bad trade.

RANDY IN INDY
12-17-2006, 08:03 PM
Dave Williams?????????

Good trade?????????????

No.

Jpup
12-17-2006, 08:10 PM
Regardless of your disdain for Casey, it still..............................was a bad trade.

If the money would have been spent the way it should have been, it wouldn't have been that bad of a deal. There were bunches of people calling for Casey to be traded for nothing before the trade was made. Then they realized he was gone and then they complained.

Tom Servo
12-17-2006, 08:23 PM
What bothers me about the Casey trade/salary dump is that instead of a minor leaguer or two with some upside we got Dave Williams. You atleast have the potential for something good coming out of the minor leaguers and if not, oh well. But instead DanO got Dave Williams, and we got exactly what we expected out of Dave Williams.

bucksfan
12-17-2006, 10:38 PM
Kearns, Cedeno, Milton, Ted Power, Graves.

Eddie Milner because I really liked him and was so disappointed...

vaticanplum
12-17-2006, 10:47 PM
Hideki Irabu.

Falls City Beer
12-17-2006, 10:50 PM
Hideki Irabu.

Indeed "The Toad" did not become a prince.

vaticanplum
12-17-2006, 11:08 PM
Indeed "The Toad" did not become a prince.

Yes, that is a nice way of putting it :)

He was a real party pooper.

Chip R
12-17-2006, 11:48 PM
Two others in Driessens mold that never lived up to their hype was Paul Householder and Kal Daniels.


I'd have to go with Householder.

tripleaaaron
12-18-2006, 02:32 AM
I was frustrated w/ Ben Webber, I really enjoyed his pitching mechanics and his image/presence.
But most dis. with dunn, and kearns, but still think if both get serious, they can still put it together

M2
12-18-2006, 02:24 PM
Dave Williams?????????

Good trade?????????????

No.

Exactly. Getting Dave Williams was like getting kicked in the nuts, repeatedly.

Ahh, the return of Paul Konerko vs. Sean Casey. I always resort to "I don't much care" on that one. One of 'em had to be traded and JimBo made, arguably, the best deal of his life moving from his 1B excess (which also included Dmitri Young, who had no business in the OF) to get Mike Cameron, a far better player than Konerko or Casey in a critical position. Though, for the time period of 1999-2004, Sean Casey was a generally better player than Konerko. It's anyone's guess whether Konerko would have remained in Cincinnati after his disastrous 2003 season. Chances are he'd have left as a free agent before his 2005-6 flourish. He's hardly the one that got away.

15fan
12-18-2006, 04:03 PM
...JimBo made, arguably, the best deal of his life moving from his 1B excess (which also included Dmitri Young, who had no business in the OF) to get Mike Cameron, a far better player than Konerko or Casey in a critical position.

An interesting debate.

I'd go with Reggie Sanders, Damian Jackson, and Josh Harris for Greg Vaughn & Mark Sweeney.

(I'd love to find a clone of the 1999 Greg Vaughn to stick in the Cincinnati clubhouse.)

Also worth mentioning - Boone & Remlinger for Denny Neagle, and Sequea & Ryan for Guzman.

M2
12-18-2006, 04:17 PM
An interesting debate.

I'd go with Reggie Sanders, Damian Jackson, and Josh Harris for Greg Vaughn & Mark Sweeney.

(I'd love to find a clone of the 1999 Greg Vaughn to stick in the Cincinnati clubhouse.)

Also worth mentioning - Boone & Remlinger for Denny Neagle, and Sequea & Ryan for Guzman.

JimBo certainly had a flourish in '98/'99. I like the Cameron move because he was the keeper of the bunch (though obviously he didn't get kept).

redsfanmia
12-18-2006, 06:49 PM
Dave Williams?????????

Good trade?????????????

No.

If the Reds would have kept Williams instead of dumping him we would have had a better shot at the division. As bad as Williams was he was a better option than the garbage Narron was putting out there every 5th day.

vaticanplum
12-18-2006, 06:56 PM
I was frustrated w/ Ben Webber, I really enjoyed his pitching mechanics and his image/presence.

Weber is a good one. I did cartwheels when the Reds picked him up and I don't think I ever saw him pitch for them.

M2
12-19-2006, 12:52 PM
If the Reds would have kept Williams instead of dumping him we would have had a better shot at the division. As bad as Williams was he was a better option than the garbage Narron was putting out there every 5th day.

Bullpucky, Chris Michalak pitched just about the same number of innings for the Reds and had an ERA that was 2.31 better than Williams. Brandon Claussen, whose year was an unmitigated disaster, was a full point lower than Williams' Reds ERA. Had Sun-Woo Kim been given multiple starts, he probably could have bested Williams by about two ERA points. According to the VORP rankings, there were 646 pitchers in MLB who did better than Williams did for the Reds last year.

If the Reds had kept Williams around, he'd have been a good bet to outdo Eric Milton's 2005 campaign.