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Mario-Rijo
12-14-2006, 06:26 PM
Per Lance's Blog:


The Cincinnati Reds today acquired LHP Bobby Livingtson off waivers from the Seattle Mariners
and added him to the 40-man roster.
Livingston, 24, had spent his entire professional career in the Mariners organization. He was selected by Seattle
in the fourth round of the 2001 first-year player draft. At Class AA San Antonio in 2005, he led Seattle's minor league pitchers
with 14 wins and ranked first in the Texas League with a 2.86 ERA.
Livingston, last season made his Major League debut, appearing in 3 games with the Mariners. He spent the
remainder of the year at Class AAA Tacoma where he went 8-11 with a 4.59 ERA in 23 appearances (22 starts). Following the
season he pitched for the Peoria Javelinas of the Arizona Fall League.

Doc. Scott
12-14-2006, 06:29 PM
Weird. It was originally listed somewhere I saw that Tampa had claimed Livingston off waivers, then sold him to Philadelphia. Apparently the Mariners either tried to sneak one past Eagle-Eye Krivsky or this involved our good friend Pile O. Cash crossing somebody's sweaty palm.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=2695392

So either Lance means Philadelphia or ESPN lies when it cries.

Team Clark
12-14-2006, 06:32 PM
Weird. It was originally listed somewhere I saw that Tampa had claimed Livingston off waivers, then sold him to Seattle. Apparently the Mariners either tried to sneak one past Eagle-Eye Krivsky or this involved our good friend Pile O. Cash crossing Bill Bavasi's sweaty palm.

That is strange. My bet is on Pile O Cash.

11larkin11
12-14-2006, 06:38 PM
MLB nullified the claim off waivers and the trade.

Mario-Rijo
12-14-2006, 06:41 PM
I sent Lance an e-mail to confirm this acquisition for us.


MLB nullified the claim off waivers and the trade.

So then he is ours?

Matt700wlw
12-14-2006, 06:43 PM
The balance of power has shifted in the NL Central......

CTA513
12-14-2006, 06:44 PM
Heres what Marc Lancasters blog said about it:


Intriguing acquisition

The Reds have claimed left-hander Bobby Livingston off waivers from the Seattle Mariners. No big deal there, except the Devil Rays claimed Livingston off waivers from the Mariners earlier this week and flipped him to the Phillies for cash.

How did this happen? Well, MLB nullified the previous waiver claim and trade, with no reason given. Apparently the powers that be felt the Phillies were circumventing the waiver process, which is prioritized by record, by cutting a prearraged deal with the Rays and sending Tampa cash for its part.

Cloak and dagger stuff right there.

By the way, Livingston has been added to the 40-man roster.

Heath
12-14-2006, 06:46 PM
Well, interesting. Krivisky didn't pick up a ex-Twin.

:dunno:

CTA513
12-14-2006, 06:57 PM
I searched yahoo and found this article on Livingston:



M's Farm Report: Livingston battles back
Used in relief by M's, lefty regains form as starter

By JASON A. CHURCHILL
SPECIAL TO THE P-I

TACOMA -- Starting pitchers are a dime a dozen. But left-handers are always at a premium, particularly the few who throw strikes consistently.

Bobby Livingston can do both, and after a dismal stint with the Mariners, Livingston, 23, is regaining the form that earned him the call-up. But he's doing it as a starting pitcher in Tacoma.

"I knew that when I showed up," Livingston said of his relief role in the majors. "They just said, 'We're going to use you in the bullpen for long relief,' and that's pretty much all they said -- and to throw strikes."

Livingston had made just two appearances out of the bullpen -- one in 2002, his first year as a pro, and the other in the minors in 2004. After allowing 10 earned runs in five innings over three appearances with the Mariners, it seems clear he's best suited to start.

"It affects a guy like me a lot," Livingston said of his inconsistent use with the Mariners. "Because I'm a feel guy ... And usually when you get into a routine, your body feels a certain way on those certain days."

Starters are used to throwing about 100 pitches every five or six days. Livingston never approached half that total with Seattle and twice went more than a week between appearances. He yielded six earned runs in one-third of an inning in his final appearance May 12.

"I'm not making any excuses," Livingston said. "I didn't pitch well while I was up there, and there are no excuses. The situations that I had were uncomfortable. But now that I've been through that, maybe the next time I go up and am put in the same situation it'll be different because I'll know how to handle it."

A fourth-round draft pick in 2001 out of Trinity Christian High School in Lubbock, Texas, Livingston made his major league debut this season after posting a 47-24 record and 3.22 ERA in his first four pro seasons. He works with smarts and guile -- and a below-average fastball. Livingston, however, believes velocity is overrated in a pitcher's repertoire.

"I'm pretty sure that if I tried to throw harder I could hit the low 90s," he said, "but my stuff wouldn't be as good. I'm not going to substitute a mile or two miles per hour for stuff. I'd rather have good stuff."

Livingston's stuff includes a fastball in the 84-88 mph range but with exceptional sinking action on a two-seam offering. He also throws an above-average changeup and a curveball that is a plus pitch at times.

Scouts see Livingston (2-5, 5.06 ERA at Tacoma) as a back-of-the-rotation starter who could pitch 200 innings.

"He's still got some refining to do," one AL Central scout said. "I really would like to see a little bit more out of his fastball, but he has the other pitches, and as the Mariners know as well as anyone with Jamie Moyer, good pitchers find a way to get outs, with or without high velocity."


Source: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/274559_mfarm20.html

Tom Servo
12-14-2006, 06:59 PM
There's your #3 starter :devil:

BRM
12-14-2006, 07:03 PM
WHIP of 1.49 and a K/9 of 4.59 in AAA last year. Rotoworld tags him as no more than 5th starter upside FWIW. They are likely correct. Oh well, someone has to pitch in Louisville.

M2
12-14-2006, 07:05 PM
Interesting pickup. Livingston could materialize into something decent in the next two or three years (dependent on whether he can add a little velocity, which he has the frame to do). Probably won't be any help in 2007 though.

IslandRed
12-14-2006, 07:18 PM
WHIP of 1.49 and a K/9 of 4.59 in AAA last year. Rotoworld tags him as no more than 5th starter upside FWIW. They are likely correct. Oh well, someone has to pitch in Louisville.


Interesting pickup. Livingston could materialize into something decent in the next two or three years (dependent on whether he can add a little velocity, which he has the frame to do). Probably won't be any help in 2007 though.

If nothing else, I'd like to stock Louisville's rotation with guys that have a chance to get better, instead of just relying on retreads.

BEETTLEBUG
12-14-2006, 07:20 PM
If Livingston is added to 40 man roster whom gets dropped off.

Tom Servo
12-14-2006, 07:33 PM
If Livingston is added to 40 man roster whom gets dropped off.
I believe there was an open spot after Claussen and Perez were dropped and Weathers was added.

Falls City Beer
12-14-2006, 07:35 PM
Interesting pickup. Livingston could materialize into something decent in the next two or three years (dependent on whether he can add a little velocity, which he has the frame to do). Probably won't be any help in 2007 though.

If he doesn't stop sucking, he could help us in the next decade....

I kid. :beerme:

Gallen5862
12-14-2006, 07:40 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player_career.jsp?player_id=455751


| Bobby Livingston 74 | P Current Status: Active

Full Name: Robert James Livingston
Born: 09/03/1982
Birthplace: St. Louis, MO
Height: 6'3" Weight: 195
Bats: Left
Throws: Left
College: N/A
MLB Debut: 04/25/2006

18.00

0-0

0

3

Photo Gallery
W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO
2006 0 0 18.00 3 0 0 0 0 0 5.0 9 10 10 2 6 3
Career 0 0 18.00 3 0 0 0 0 0 5.0 9 10 10 2 6 3



Biography:
Robert James Livingston...graduated from Trinity Christian High School in Lubbock, TX in May, 2001... Went 9-1 with a 0.22 ERA (2 ER, 64.0 IP) his senior season, walking 10 while striking out 115...batted .423 (2x53) with 4 HR and 21 RBI.

2006 Career Highlights: By Year: yyyy 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001


Livingston appeared in three games with Seattle early in the season with an 18.00 ERA with 10 runs allowed in five innings before he rejoined the Triple-A Tacoma Rainiers. Livingston was 8-11 with a 4.59 ERA in 23 starts during his first full season in the Pacific Coast League. Livingston struggled after the All-Star break, going 3-6 with a 4.55 ERA. Opposing batters hit .308 against him. He was 2-2 with a 2.63 ERA for Tacoma in August.

Mario-Rijo
12-14-2006, 07:55 PM
MLB.com's take, looks like CTA513's post was right on point.



12/14/2006 6:03 PM ET
Reds claim Livingston off waivers
Lefty posted 4.59 ERA in 23 Minor League appearances in '06
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com


CINCINNATI -- The Reds claimed left-handed pitcher Bobby Livingston off waivers Thursday from the Mariners, and plan to have him compete for a spot in their rotation.
Livingston spent most of last season with the Mariners' Triple-A club in Tacoma, and went 8-11 with a 4.59 ERA in 23 appearances, including 22 starts. He made his Major League debut in 2006, when he appeared in three games with Seattle as a reliever.

The acquisition wasn't without controversy. The Devil Rays first claimed Livingston off the waiver wire Tuesday, and immediately traded him to the Phillies. Major League Baseball stepped in Thursday and nullified Tampa Bay's claim and voided the deal with Philadelphia.

The Phillies were behind the Reds and other clubs for waiver claims. MLB awarded the pitcher to Cincinnati as a result.

"We felt that it circumvented the rules of claiming players on waivers," MLB spokesman Patrick Courtney said. "It wasn't following the order of teams on the list."

Cincinnati had scouted the 24-year-old Livingston during the season and at this year's Arizona Fall League games. He will battle for the fifth starter's spot in Spring Training with Elizardo Ramirez, Matt Belisle, Homer Bailey and others.

"He's close to the Major Leagues," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "He got a taste of it. We like his athletic ability and durability. He's a strike thrower and competes well. We think he's on the cusp on being in a Major League rotation. He'll be competition for our other starters."

Livingston, Seattle's fourth-round pick in the 2001 First-Year Player Draft, had his best season at Double-A in 2005, when he had 14 wins and a 2.86 ERA. Considered a control pitcher, he doesn't have overpowering velocity.

The Reds now have a full big-league roster with 40 players.


He must be decent enough for teams to resort to trickery to get him.

OnBaseMachine
12-14-2006, 08:01 PM
Woohoo, the next Dave Williams!!!

Replace crap on the 40 man roster (Perez) with more of the same.

RedsManRick
12-14-2006, 08:02 PM
Still relatively young. Upside is real limited, but as the article says, lefties who throw strikes have some value.

Doc. Scott
12-14-2006, 08:07 PM
"Strike thrower" is about all you can say at the moment. That's an ugly line from AAA Tacoma last season... and Cheney Stadium (http://www.tacomarainiers.com/stadium/) has been a consistent pitcher's park in recent (http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/040408parkfactors.html) years (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3289).

I'm thinking he ends up in relief.

redlegs7089
12-14-2006, 08:08 PM
sweet now i say we have a chance!!!:thumbup:

gm
12-14-2006, 08:16 PM
"Livingston's stuff includes a fastball in the 84-88 mph range but with exceptional sinking action on a two-seam offering. He also throws an above-average changeup and a curveball that is a plus pitch at times."

Dr. Michalak, I presume?

lollipopcurve
12-14-2006, 08:28 PM
Dr. Michalak, I presume?

Michalak was nowhere near 88. He threw 81-82.

I see nothing to grouse about here. Young lefty with what sounds like an interesting repertoire. I'd rather have him than Claussen.

Patrick Bateman
12-14-2006, 08:32 PM
I see nothing to grouse about here. Young lefty with what sounds like an interesting repertoire. I'd rather have him than Claussen.

I disagree. Assuming Claussen's arm isn't totally gone, he still has the upside of being a decent middle of the rotation starter. From the sounds of it, Claussen has much better stuff and velocity than Livingston.

Claussen is still a huge question mark, but I'll take his potential over Livinsgton's. He's a bigger gamble, but he may pay some decent dividends, while Livingston doesn't have any more potential than the guys you usually see littering the waiver wire.

M2
12-14-2006, 08:43 PM
Livingston's going to need to get more juice out of his 6'3" frame than he currently does. Then again, that's why I like him as a cheap pickup. He's got size, he's got control, he's got secondary pitches. If he picks up some velo in his mid-20s (hardly unheard of), the Reds have themselves a pitcher. No knowing if it will happen, but if he already had 88-90 MPH zip on his fastball, he'd be close to untouchable.

It's certainly worth picking him up for a year in AAA to see if he can progress at all. Hey Grant Jackson, time to earn your money.

Patrick Bateman
12-14-2006, 08:47 PM
Livingston's going to need to get more juice out of his 6'3" frame than he currently does. Then again, that's why I like him as a cheap pickup. He's got size, he's got control, he's got secondary pitches. If he picks up some velo in his mid-20s (hardly unheard of), the Reds have themselves a pitcher. No knowing if it will happen, but if he already had 88-90 MPH zip on his fastball, he'd be close to untouchable.



Agreed. I have no problem with this pick-up, but I'm not so sure if he has much of a better chance than the normal guys you get in these pick-ups.

jojo
12-14-2006, 09:41 PM
Livingston's going to need to get more juice out of his 6'3" frame than he currently does. Then again, that's why I like him as a cheap pickup. He's got size, he's got control, he's got secondary pitches. If he picks up some velo in his mid-20s (hardly unheard of), the Reds have themselves a pitcher. No knowing if it will happen, but if he already had 88-90 MPH zip on his fastball, he'd be close to untouchable.

It's certainly worth picking him up for a year in AAA to see if he can progress at all. Hey Grant Jackson, time to earn your money.

Bobby L. isn't likely to pick up that much velocity. He's basically a poor man's Jamie Moyer. He doesn't have a ton of upside and he isn't much of a groundball pitcher. His value is mostly that he throws strikes and potentially eat innings for cheap (thats a useful thing). I think its a good pick up for the Reds in the sense they picked up someone potentially useful for next to nothing. Hard to argue with that.....

Here's some interesting reading about him:
http://prospectinsider.wordpress.com/2006/04/25/scouting-report-bobby-livingston/

cincyinco
12-14-2006, 09:53 PM
Livingston is an intriguing prospect - but his upside is limited. He has always been a soft tosser M2, I doubt he adds more velocity. His stuff is pretty solid - average at least, and perhaps at best. Sounds a lot like Claussen post TJ.

I don't think the Claussen comparrison is that far off to be honest. I mean, Claussen pre surgury was something to be excited about, but after his TJ, he just wasn't the same.

Saw him pitch here at coors a couple of times, and i don't ever recall him hitting above 86 on the gun. Seems like Livingston's working territory to me.

big boy
12-14-2006, 10:07 PM
Didn't the Reds have the same deal with the Cubs...select Hamilton and flip to the Reds for some dough? Why was that allowed or am I missing sumpin?

cincyinco
12-14-2006, 10:15 PM
Didn't the Reds have the same deal with the Cubs...select Hamilton and flip to the Reds for some dough? Why was that allowed or am I missing sumpin?

Pre-arranged deals to circumvent the rule V draft order are allowed, but only for the rule V draft. Not for waivers, or for the first year player draft.

edit..

sorry if that sounded "direct", that was not my intent. I could be talking out my arse again, and be entirely wrong...

M2
12-14-2006, 10:23 PM
Livingston is an intriguing prospect - but his upside is limited. He has always been a soft tosser M2, I doubt he adds more velocity. His stuff is pretty solid - average at least, and perhaps at best. Sounds a lot like Claussen post TJ.

I know he's been a soft-tosser and I don't necessarily expect him to change, but he's a relatively tall drink of water for a lefty. That could lead to extra velo now that he's reaching maturing into his mid-20s. Nature could hand this guy a boost. It's not likely, but in the realm of unlikely it's less remote than others.

Also, unlike Claussen, Livingston's got some serious control. Brandon was in trouble when he dipped below 90 MPH after his first surgery. Livingston can change speeds a whole lot better, keeps the ball down and is stingy on the free passes. If he can work high 80s, he can be a useful pitcher. Worth a year to find out, IMO. Sure hope that scouting report jojo posted turns out to be prescient.

cincyinco
12-14-2006, 10:30 PM
I know he's been a soft-tosser and I don't necessarily expect him to change, but he's a relatively tall drink of water for a lefty. That could lead to extra velo now that he's reaching maturing into his mid-20s. Nature could hand this guy a boost. It's not likely, but in the realm of unlikely it's less remote than others.

Also, unlike Claussen, Livingston's got some serious control. Brandon was in trouble when he dipped below 90 MPH after his first surgery. Livingston can change speeds a whole lot better, keeps the ball down and is stingy on the free passes. If he can work high 80s, he can be a useful pitcher. Worth a year to find out, IMO.

Agreed, not out of the realm of possibility, but i wouldn't wager on it ;) Sorta like Homer Bailey becoming a successful MLB pitcher ;) :P

In any case, its noted that he has impressive life on his fastball, despite the velocity.. and I've always been a firm believer that its just as important, if not more so, to have good life on your pitches than it is velocity.

IslandRed
12-15-2006, 12:03 AM
"Strike thrower" is about all you can say at the moment. That's an ugly line from AAA Tacoma last season... and Cheney Stadium (http://www.tacomarainiers.com/stadium/) has been a consistent pitcher's park in recent (http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/040408parkfactors.html) years (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=3289).

I'm thinking he ends up in relief.

He still had to pitch in the PCL, which is pretty homer-friendly, if I remember right. I just checked the Minor League Splits site -- his HR/9 on the road was double what it was in Tacoma's park. Of course, the GAB being what it is, that's not necessarily comforting news.

cincyinco
12-15-2006, 12:29 AM
Just wanted to comment more on the life of his fastball - it was noted he has exceptional life on his fastball, despite the velocity or lack there of. Not just good, but exceptional. I hope thats true, because if you can command pitches with crazy movement, you got some things going for you.

Its entirely conceivable to me that Livingston will have a Jamie Moyer type developmental curve - he doesn't have the best stuff, but he's a gamer, a pitcher, and he may just take some time to adjust to each level. Go look at Moyer's minor league career to see what I'm referring to.

Its a good waiver claim IMO - he's certainly got a solid shot at helping the club, I think. More so than a guy like Mike Gosling did.. ;)

Eric_Davis
12-15-2006, 03:06 AM
Interesting pickup. Livingston could materialize into something decent in the next two or three years (dependent on whether he can add a little velocity, which he has the frame to do). Probably won't be any help in 2007 though.

I'll take that.

Topcat
12-15-2006, 03:50 AM
Wish the kid well and who knows he could be a serviceable starter. From the reviews on him I truly believe he is more than worth giving a shot. At his worst he will be a number 8 in the starting rotation and injuries happen so I give this move a big :thumbup: after all the risk on these fishing expenditions is equal to about 10 buyouts of Tony Womack. Pan that gold Wayne K!

penantboundreds
12-15-2006, 03:58 AM
a fastball with "severe" downward movement but he isnt a groundball pitcher...how does that happen? im just asking to know the answer...is it just so slow that people can do with it what they want?

dfs
12-15-2006, 11:01 AM
Claussen is still a huge question mark,
That ship has sailed. I think we can pretty much infer that to the reds Brandon Claussen is toast. I hope I'm wrong about that and everything, but he would be insane to come back to this organization afer the comments made when he was waived.

Livingston is exactly the kind of incremental improvement Krivsky has talked about making since he signed on. He's got time to spend a year in AAA and then compete for a roster spot in 08.

This is probably the best offseason move Krivsky has made yet. I know that's a pretty low bar, but we should at least acknowledge the good moves.

gm
12-15-2006, 01:50 PM
Livingston's got some serious control. Brandon was in trouble when he dipped below 90 MPH after his first surgery. Livingston can change speeds a whole lot better, keeps the ball down and is stingy on the free passes. If he can work high 80s, he can be a useful pitcher. Worth a year to find out, IMO. Sure hope that scouting report jojo posted turns out to be prescient.

Brian Anderson clone?

Redmachine2003
01-01-2007, 11:45 PM
Talking about vec. Bronson pitches better when he uses his offspeed stuff more than his fastball. If this kid has a plus curve and a good change to go along with a sinking fastball, I don't see why he couldn't put up the kind of Numbers Bronson has. When Graves was closing for the Reds he could through 95 mph but it had no movement but when he throw around 89 -91 that ball was headed for SS or 2nd everytime of course Danny was short and had to put serious spin on the ball to get it to sink which when he throw to many pitches caused some really bad blisters which I think was his demise as a starter and caused him to throw different and add strain on his arm. I guess what I am saying about Livingston is I feel that he needs to pitch to his strength and from what I have been reading about him he is one of those guys who needs to take a little off his pitch instead of trying to muscle up and put alittle on it to get the batter out. Maybe think Tom Browning with a sinking fastball.

jasonachurchill
01-02-2007, 05:01 AM
BLiv isn't 6-3, he's about 6-1 1/2. Trust me, I'm about 6 feet even and he surely doesn;t have much more than an inch on me.

The Mariners tried for three years to get more physical effort into his delivery in order to get more out of his fastball, but Bobby is a creature of habit and never took to any of the adjustments made.

he is what he is... a lefty who throws in the 82-86 range with an above average curve ball and an abive average change.

If his command improved to the level of "hitting a fly's ass from a thousand yards away" than he's Jamie Moyer, they are true clones in every other way.

Falls City Beer
01-02-2007, 12:11 PM
My guess is that Livingston will get clobbered, like most extreme, extreme longshots.