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View Full Version : UC loses to OSU, surprise surprise



DoogMinAmo
12-16-2006, 06:29 PM
Wow, that is one ridiculously talented team. UC will need a couple years to get close to making these kinds of games worth watching. Mick will do it, but the talent and depth isnt there yet. They seemed emotionally drained, and were shooting horribly yet again. Still, I have to be happy with the effort of a team that knows it is overmatched.

GAC
12-16-2006, 08:37 PM
Was there any doubt? ;)

Reds4Life
12-16-2006, 08:47 PM
Was there any doubt? ;)

Quite amazing they duck UC for 40+ years, conveniently agree to play the game when UC has its worst team in 20+ years thanks to Zimpher, and now you already have Thad Matta saying they will not play UC again in the future.

Amazing indeed.

Caveat Emperor
12-16-2006, 08:48 PM
Was there any doubt? ;)

Not now, but there's been grumbling around Clifton for several years that the College of Columbus was ducking them during the Huggins-era whenever UC approached them about scheduling a game.

Easy to beat a program once it's been declawed. Typical for OSU, though.

Jaycint
12-16-2006, 09:45 PM
My thoughts exactly R4L and CE. Where they been the last 15 years? Oh that's right, duckin' and dodgin'. Didn't have the guts to pony up the last decade + when they would have gotten rolled.

Yachtzee
12-16-2006, 10:26 PM
I'm an OSU fan when it comes to football. When it comes to basketball, I hold out hope that a MAC team, especially Kent State, can pull a Gonzaga and become a perennial powerhouse. I think that OSU not playing UC in such a long time, scheduling them in a year when they are weak, then talking about not scheduling them again is pretty lame.

traderumor
12-16-2006, 10:26 PM
I don't know about getting "rolled." Ohio State did take a team to the final 4 in 1999 and has shared or won the Big 10 more than a few times. Go ahead and point out that some of that was taken away because of O'Brien's stupidity because the UC program has been choirboy clean over the same period.

Regardless, its easy to say "we would have kicked your butts" now that you know it cannot happen. That was an ugly beatdown today, all the other stuff is just white noise. Keep on making the excuses and blaming global warming and a fading bball program on Zimpher. That ought to get the program out of a rut.

Reds4Life
12-16-2006, 10:42 PM
I don't know about getting "rolled." Ohio State did take a team to the final 4 in 1999 and has shared or won the Big 10 more than a few times. Go ahead and point out that some of that was taken away because of O'Brien's stupidity because the UC program has been choirboy clean over the same period.

Regardless, its easy to say "we would have kicked your butts" now that you know it cannot happen. That was an ugly beatdown today, all the other stuff is just white noise. Keep on making the excuses and blaming global warming and a fading bball program on Zimpher. That ought to get the program out of a rut.

It's not an excuse when it comes to Zimpher, it's a fact.

guttle11
12-16-2006, 10:44 PM
My thoughts exactly R4L and CE. Where they been the last 15 years? Oh that's right, duckin' and dodgin'. Didn't have the guts to pony up the last decade + when they would have gotten rolled.


Jim Jackson called...

DoogMinAmo
12-16-2006, 10:47 PM
Was there any doubt? ;)

I was quite pleased with UC's defensive effort considering OSU's talent level, but the offensive disappearance was disconcerting.

14 points in the first half? I dont care how badly shots wont fall, that is bush league.

beb30
12-16-2006, 10:58 PM
I don't know about getting "rolled." Ohio State did take a team to the final 4 in 1999 and has shared or won the Big 10 more than a few times. Go ahead and point out that some of that was taken away because of O'Brien's stupidity because the UC program has been choirboy clean over the same period.

Regardless, its easy to say "we would have kicked your butts" now that you know it cannot happen. That was an ugly beatdown today, all the other stuff is just white noise. Keep on making the excuses and blaming global warming and a fading bball program on Zimpher. That ought to get the program out of a rut.

Why am i not suprised that you made this comment? I swear you like to go against what other people say just b/c you like to argue.....Its the truth the avoided us for 40 plus years, and now when we have a team that is made up of a bunch of random guys that havent played together then OSU wants to play us. Yes we aren't that great of a team. Yes we got our butts kicked, but I garuntee that the outcome would be alot different given the last few years.....

Spring~Fields
12-16-2006, 11:15 PM
I was disappointed with both teams

traderumor
12-16-2006, 11:30 PM
Why am i not suprised that you made this comment? I swear you like to go against what other people say just b/c you like to argue.....Its the truth the avoided us for 40 plus years, and now when we have a team that is made up of a bunch of random guys that havent played together then OSU wants to play us. Yes we aren't that great of a team. Yes we got our butts kicked, but I garuntee that the outcome would be alot different given the last few years.....I made the comment because I am a Buckeye fan and doubt that UC would have "rolled" in all but a few years, like the one just before the Final 4 appearance. UC always liked to talk the dukey back then, when they thought they had the horses and they knew that tOSU probably wouldn't take the little chirpy challenge from Huggins, whom Geiger could not stand (little did he know he hired a cheater himself--er, I mean a humanitarian with a big heart who let it get in the way of good decisions :rolleyes: ).

Now, UC fans blame tOSU for finally playing you in a down year. I don't know this for sure, but I think this game was scheduled before Oden and co. were committed and while possible sanctions for tOSU were still pending. Plus, the UC program wasn't in such disarray at the time it was scheduled either. But I'm not 100% sure about that. So, it isn't like Ohio State backdoored this game and said "sure, we'll kick your butts now if you want us to." Sounds like so much whining to me, sort of like Michigan fans about the NC game.

traderumor
12-16-2006, 11:32 PM
I was disappointed with both teamsI tell you, there were some masons in the crowd asking for union cards on both benches. Ohio State hasn't shot the ball well since Oden hit the floor. Must be some adjustments in the flow that isn't there right now. But I think what you see is what you get for UC.

DoogMinAmo
12-16-2006, 11:35 PM
I was disappointed with both teams

Really? Why?

OSU so thoroughly whooped UC the first half, I think they mailed it in the second half allowing them to seem less impressive. As far as I am concerned, they are the #1 team in the country. Talent in both the back and front courts.

bucksfan
12-16-2006, 11:36 PM
The game today had nothing to do with Ohio State ducking UC in the past though. If UC had been good this year, no one would have brought up the ducking. They aren't as good as they have been but that is not the fault of the Buckeyes. I strongly agree, the teams should have played prior to this. But crying about it now, after this game is played is silly IMO.

I think Ohio State played what will be for them a very very average-at-best game. There did not seem to be many skilled shooters for UC, not judging just by the percentage/results but by lookiung at the releases and rotations. But I really liked how hard the Bearcats went after it.

DoogMinAmo
12-16-2006, 11:59 PM
The game today had nothing to do with Ohio State ducking UC in the past though. If UC had been good this year, no one would have brought up the ducking. They aren't as good as they have been but that is not the fault of the Buckeyes. I strongly agree, the teams should have played prior to this. But crying about it now, after this game is played is silly IMO.

I think Ohio State played what will be for them a very very average-at-best game. There did not seem to be many skilled shooters for UC, not judging just by the percentage/results but by lookiung at the releases and rotations. But I really liked how hard the Bearcats went after it.

What I wouldnt have done to see what Lazelle Duden or Darnell Burton could have done in this game. UC scored 14 pts in one half, and shot under 20%. But, as you said neither the current state of either team is not able to be changed, nor is the outcome of the game.

But what is sparking the debate and the hostility is that this game was 44 years in the making, and Matta is talking like there is nothing to gain from continuing the series. This only fuels the talk that OSU waited for a down year and took advantage of it, no matter how unlikely or ridiculous it sounds. As far as I am concerned, intrastate rivalries can only benefit both teams. Wouldnt you also want to see them play each other every year? The games would only get better, the rivalry more heated, and it would put an end to this waiting for a "down year" talk?

beb30
12-17-2006, 12:15 AM
I dont know that ive seen anyone whine, i mean as far as im concerned it was pretty clear OSU was better than us they beat us. But its kind of odd how now they are willing to play us in a year with a brand new coach, every player is new with the exception of Allen and McGowen.

Reds4Life
12-17-2006, 01:04 AM
I made the comment because I am a Buckeye fan and doubt that UC would have "rolled" in all but a few years, like the one just before the Final 4 appearance. UC always liked to talk the dukey back then, when they thought they had the horses and they knew that tOSU probably wouldn't take the little chirpy challenge from Huggins, whom Geiger could not stand (little did he know he hired a cheater himself--er, I mean a humanitarian with a big heart who let it get in the way of good decisions :rolleyes: ).

Now, UC fans blame tOSU for finally playing you in a down year. I don't know this for sure, but I think this game was scheduled before Oden and co. were committed and while possible sanctions for tOSU were still pending. Plus, the UC program wasn't in such disarray at the time it was scheduled either. But I'm not 100% sure about that. So, it isn't like Ohio State backdoored this game and said "sure, we'll kick your butts now if you want us to." Sounds like so much whining to me, sort of like Michigan fans about the NC game.

Nobody is blaming anyone, it's a fact. OSU flat out refused to play UC for the better part of a decade. They didn't accept the game because OSU knew they'd lose.

The contracts for this game were not signed until after Mike Thomas was named AD, and Bob Huggins was fired, and we had no recruits. Amazing, isn't it? That IS thanks to Zimpher, but you'll deny that until the cows come home. She's taken this program from a top 10 national program to one that will likely be a Big East bottom feeder for the next 5+ years.

Wonder how long it will be before Matta is being investigated for his recruiting practices? It's kind of amazing a guy who couldn't recruit well in the past, and built much of his resume on the backs of other coaches recruits (like Skip Prosser) is all of sudden signing everyone on earth. It's not like OSU has a history of cheating or paying players or anything...........nah.

MartyFan
12-17-2006, 01:05 AM
I am a huge Buckeye fan and had not been able to watch any of their games this year...I watched like 10 minutes of the game today and WOW!!! I couldn't believe the way the team was able to compensate on the fly for being out of place or maybe wanting to pass when they should have shot.

Explossive speed...

This is going to be a fun season.

I am praying we get to keep a couple of these guys for at least two or three seasons....I know, we have no chance but man!

Caseyfan21
12-17-2006, 01:27 AM
Wonder how long it will be before Matta is being investigated for his recruiting practices? It's kind of amazing a guy who couldn't recruit well in the past, and built much of his resume on the backs of other coaches recruits (like Skip Prosser) is all of sudden signing everyone on earth. It's not like OSU has a history of cheating or paying players or anything...........nah.

I really can't believe you are accusing Matta of cheating just because he's done a great job bringing talent to OSU. All it took was Matta to get Cook and Cook did a lot of talking to get Oden and Conley into the fold. Once a program gets one big recruit they can trigger one big recruiting class then it starts to carry over and gain momentum. Matta wasn't at Xavier long enough to bring his recruits through. He was only at X for 3 years. Obviously he had success with Prosser's recruits but that's like saying Tressel didn't do anything to win the 2002 national championship since those were mostly Cooper's players.

Don't be mad at Thad Matta, OSU wouldn't play UC when O'Brien was there, not Thad. Thad has proven to be a great coach and just because he has beaten UC 3/4 times counting Xavier doesn't mean you should accuse him of cheating.

Caveat Emperor
12-17-2006, 04:01 AM
I made the comment because I am a Buckeye fan and doubt that UC would have "rolled" in all but a few years, like the one just before the Final 4 appearance. UC always liked to talk the dukey back then, when they thought they had the horses and they knew that tOSU probably wouldn't take the little chirpy challenge from Huggins, whom Geiger could not stand (little did he know he hired a cheater himself--er, I mean a humanitarian with a big heart who let it get in the way of good decisions :rolleyes: ).

Now, UC fans blame tOSU for finally playing you in a down year. I don't know this for sure, but I think this game was scheduled before Oden and co. were committed and while possible sanctions for tOSU were still pending. Plus, the UC program wasn't in such disarray at the time it was scheduled either. But I'm not 100% sure about that. So, it isn't like Ohio State backdoored this game and said "sure, we'll kick your butts now if you want us to." Sounds like so much whining to me, sort of like Michigan fans about the NC game.

Just my .02, but it really bothers me when OSU fans do that little "t" in front of the initials, like anyone is confused about which OSU you're talking about. It strikes me as a tad conceited.

And, if you want to talk about crooked and cheaters, tell me with a straight face that the whole Oden playing for 1 year thing doesn't just stink on some level. He's a rent-a-player and nothing more -- the collegiate equivalent of a free agent.

I'd like to see this matchup continue, but we'll have to see if Thad and the powers at the College of Columbus will allow that to happen.

Spring~Fields
12-17-2006, 04:11 AM
Ohio State hasn't shot the ball well since Oden hit the floor. Must be some adjustments in the flow that isn't there right now.

That is what I have seen in their last couple games.
They don’t seem to flow as well and don’t seem to hit the shots like they were. There was some sloppy or lose ball handling too that can come back to bite them in future games. Seems like they went away from using their shooters and their aggressive style where Oden then would have been a nice addition that complimented them when he joined them, they seem to have changed to rely on Oden.

I can see other good teams or a hot team on a given night giving the team that we saw against UC last night fits if they don’t adjust.

I thought that both teams could have done a better job taking care of the ball. They both had issues on shooting the ball that you would not want to see if you have higher expectations for the team and both teams seemed to lose their composure at times and get away from what works for them. I thought that I saw a better Ohio State team lose to NC than the OSU team last night.

GAC
12-17-2006, 08:01 AM
And, if you want to talk about crooked and cheaters, tell me with a straight face that the whole Oden playing for 1 year thing doesn't just stink on some level. He's a rent-a-player and nothing more -- the collegiate equivalent of a free agent.

That is a totally ridiculous and laughable accusation.

You, or any one else, know for a fact that he is only playing for one year?

Where, from reliable sources, have you heard that?

And then to throw out this crooked or cheating accusation. Geez!

Sounds more to me like some are simply sour grapes because Matta left the Cincy area (Xavier).

He seems like a pretty level-headed kid who, according to his Mom, wants very much to get an college education. It's very important to him.

So why don't we wait and see.

And OK, so OSU hasn't played Cincy in 40 year. I didn't know that the Bearcats were a powerhouse for 40 years, so there has to be other reasons also as to why they haven't played.

I sincerely doubt it was because OSU was "scared" of the Bearcats/Huggins. They sure did play many other powerhouse teams during that time.

And some of you are saying that OSU fans think too highly of themselves?? :rolleyes:

And I say that as a fan of the Bearcats (Huggins). I have followed them every year, more than I did OSU basketball (hated O'Brien). Right up until Zimpher took over and fired Huggins. I can't stand the woman and what she has done to the program.

Darn good article on Oden for those that would really like to know more about this kid's makeup....

http://www.buckeyextra.com/?story=dispatch/2006/12/16/20061216-A1-01.html

Reds4Life
12-17-2006, 10:24 AM
That is a totally ridiculous and laughable accusation.

You, or any one else, know for a fact that he is only playing for one year?

Where, from reliable sources, have you heard that?

And then to throw out this crooked or cheating accusation. Geez!

Sounds more to me like some are simply sour grapes because Matta left the Cincy area (Xavier).

He seems like a pretty level-headed kid who, according to his Mom, wants very much to get an college education. It's very important to him.

So why don't we wait and see.

And OK, so OSU hasn't played Cincy in 40 year. I didn't know that the Bearcats were a powerhouse for 40 years, so there has to be other reasons also as to why they haven't played.

I sincerely doubt it was because OSU was "scared" of the Bearcats/Huggins. They sure did play many other powerhouse teams during that time.

And some of you are saying that OSU fans think too highly of themselves?? :rolleyes:

And I say that as a fan of the Bearcats (Huggins). I have followed them every year, more than I did OSU basketball (hated O'Brien). Right up until Zimpher took over and fired Huggins. I can't stand the woman and what she has done to the program.

Darn good article on Oden for those that would really like to know more about this kid's makeup....

http://www.buckeyextra.com/?story=dispatch/2006/12/16/20061216-A1-01.html

You are dreaming if you think Oden isn't a one and done player. The only reason he even went to college is because of the new NBA rule.

Reds4Life
12-17-2006, 10:28 AM
I really can't believe you are accusing Matta of cheating just because he's done a great job bringing talent to OSU. All it took was Matta to get Cook and Cook did a lot of talking to get Oden and Conley into the fold. Once a program gets one big recruit they can trigger one big recruiting class then it starts to carry over and gain momentum. Matta wasn't at Xavier long enough to bring his recruits through. He was only at X for 3 years. Obviously he had success with Prosser's recruits but that's like saying Tressel didn't do anything to win the 2002 national championship since those were mostly Cooper's players.

Don't be mad at Thad Matta, OSU wouldn't play UC when O'Brien was there, not Thad. Thad has proven to be a great coach and just because he has beaten UC 3/4 times counting Xavier doesn't mean you should accuse him of cheating.

I'm not mad at Matta, I'm taking a non homer look at the situation. Matta was never a great recruiter. He was handed his teams on a silver platter from coaches who moved on. Then he goes to a school that is one of the most sanctioned in NCAA history with a history of cheating, now he's signing every All American on earth. Something doesn't seem right from my view.

WMR
12-17-2006, 11:01 AM
That is a totally ridiculous and laughable accusation.

You, or any one else, know for a fact that he is only playing for one year?

Where, from reliable sources, have you heard that?

And then to throw out this crooked or cheating accusation. Geez!

Sounds more to me like some are simply sour grapes because Matta left the Cincy area (Xavier).

He seems like a pretty level-headed kid who, according to his Mom, wants very much to get an college education. It's very important to him.

So why don't we wait and see.

And OK, so OSU hasn't played Cincy in 40 year. I didn't know that the Bearcats were a powerhouse for 40 years, so there has to be other reasons also as to why they haven't played.

I sincerely doubt it was because OSU was "scared" of the Bearcats/Huggins. They sure did play many other powerhouse teams during that time.

And some of you are saying that OSU fans think too highly of themselves?? :rolleyes:

And I say that as a fan of the Bearcats (Huggins). I have followed them every year, more than I did OSU basketball (hated O'Brien). Right up until Zimpher took over and fired Huggins. I can't stand the woman and what she has done to the program.

Darn good article on Oden for those that would really like to know more about this kid's makeup....

http://www.buckeyextra.com/?story=dispatch/2006/12/16/20061216-A1-01.html

LOL why is every sentence a new paragraph in your posts, GAC?

DoogMinAmo
12-17-2006, 11:15 AM
I tell you, there were some masons in the crowd asking for union cards on both benches. Ohio State hasn't shot the ball well since Oden hit the floor. Must be some adjustments in the flow that isn't there right now. But I think what you see is what you get for UC.

The UC players were complaining about a smaller ball and tighter rims. Not sure if it aour grapes, but if true that could that have affected both teams.

Jaycint
12-17-2006, 12:39 PM
I sincerely doubt it was because OSU was "scared" of the Bearcats/Huggins.


http://www.buckeyextra.com/?story=dispatch/2006/12/16/20061216-A1-01.html

I don't doubt it at all, matter of fact I believe that's exactly what it was. Why else didn't they schedule UC for 15 years? If like you said they weren't ducking any other big name programs during that time then why not take the opportunity to play an in-state rival? Would have generated a ton of interest in the state and probably produced a nice little payday for both schools. What logical reason was there not to play the game if THE OSU doesn't duck anyone?

Great job Buckeyes on kicking little brother down I-71 while he's down. Who's willing to bet they won't come calling again in a few years if/when UC returns its program to a high level?

traderumor
12-17-2006, 01:06 PM
Wonder how long it will be before Matta is being investigated for his recruiting practices? It's kind of amazing a guy who couldn't recruit well in the past, and built much of his resume on the backs of other coaches recruits (like Skip Prosser) is all of sudden signing everyone on earth. It's not like OSU has a history of cheating or paying players or anything...........nah.

I really don't know Matta's history prior to taking over the Bucks other than knowing he won at Xavier. But common sense tells me that recruiting blue chippers to Columbus for a dynamic, likeable coach like Matta is part of the formula, as opposed to convincing blue chippers to come to a mid-major like Xavier. But if it makes you feel better to figure it must be cheating...

chicoruiz
12-17-2006, 01:07 PM
And, if you want to talk about crooked and cheaters, tell me with a straight face that the whole Oden playing for 1 year thing doesn't just stink on some level. He's a rent-a-player and nothing more -- the collegiate equivalent of a free agent.


Oden, as I understand it, would prefer to stay for more than one year but is very cognizant of the possibility of a career-ending injury taking away his earning power. The recent hand injury brought that home to him; what if he'd blown out a knee?

I don't think you can fault him for wanting to make sure that his family is provided for, and I don't understand the logic that labels this "cheating" or "crooked" without any supporting evidence.

Caveat Emperor
12-17-2006, 02:43 PM
I don't think you can fault him for wanting to make sure that his family is provided for, and I don't understand the logic that labels this "cheating" or "crooked" without any supporting evidence.

I have no real connection to either side of the debate (not a huge Cincinnati fan, not an Ohio State fan), but it's hard not to read between the lines on everything -- Oden wanted to go to the NBA, would've been the #1 pick, and will go to the NBA next year as the #1 pick. He's diplomatic about it, but come on:


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/draft/2005-06-22-oden-future_x.htm

"I'm teed off because I just don't understand what they're trying to prove or what this will accomplish," Oden's mother, Zoe, said as she prepared to watch her son in the Indiana Junior-Senior All Star game at Pendleton Heights. "This means that Greg is held back a year. ... The option has been taken from him. I don't think that's right. I'm not happy."

Oden has long said that he wants to attend college, but many scouting experts doubted that a player of his stature would pass on the multimillion-dollar contract guaranteed to top draft picks. Over the past year he has emerged as the most talked-about high school player since LeBron James and, some say, the most talked-about center prospect since Lew Alcindor (later Kareem Abdul-Jabbar) in the 1960s.

"It's said and done, so there's nothing you can do about it now," Greg Oden said. "I'm not sad, but I feel bad for whenever the next LeBron comes along and he has to go to college and something happens — either he gets injured or doesn't live up to expectations."

Something rubs me the wrong way about it all -- just being a holding pen for kids waiting to go to the NBA.

Redlegs23
12-17-2006, 03:05 PM
I sincerely doubt it was because OSU was "scared" of the Bearcats/Huggins. They sure did play many other powerhouse teams during that time.


Bob Goin, the old UC AD had a quote in the paper a couple days ago that he had tried to schedule this game for a long time but Geiger would always refuse and the only reason he would give them is "We have to get better first."

So either Goin's a liar, or the Buckeyes were scared of playing the game all those years realizing that UC would have won the majority of them. Yes, Ohio State had some good years in there too and they surely would've won a few, but over the past 15 years comparing the two programs it's obvious that UC would've won the majority of them since they usually had the better team.

This game was scheduled 3 months after Huggs got fired and all our recruits decommitted, and 6 months after Greg Oden committed to OSU. Very brave of OSU to refuse to play UC for 20+ years and then agree to play them after these events take place. And even braver for them to come out and say they have no interest in playing UC in the future when Cronin says he would like to play OSU every year.

Congratulations on having the better team this year, OSU is obviously very talented. However, it's ridiculous that OSU has refused this game for 44 years until UC has one of it's worst teams in 44 years and OSU has one of its best, and even more ridiculous that they will now continue to refuse to play this game in the near future.

Interesting that OSU has no problem playing UC in football more than one time, but not basketball.

Highlifeman21
12-17-2006, 03:23 PM
Nobody is blaming anyone, it's a fact. OSU flat out refused to play UC for the better part of a decade. They didn't accept the game because OSU knew they'd lose.

The contracts for this game were not signed until after Mike Thomas was named AD, and Bob Huggins was fired, and we had no recruits. Amazing, isn't it? That IS thanks to Zimpher, but you'll deny that until the cows come home. She's taken this program from a top 10 national program to one that will likely be a Big East bottom feeder for the next 5+ years.

Wonder how long it will be before Matta is being investigated for his recruiting practices? It's kind of amazing a guy who couldn't recruit well in the past, and built much of his resume on the backs of other coaches recruits (like Skip Prosser) is all of sudden signing everyone on earth. It's not like OSU has a history of cheating or paying players or anything...........nah.

Great point, but I want to defend Matta. He will become a product of filth due to OSU. I believe he's a great guy and a great coach, but he'll be dragged down thanks to the wonderful OSU boosters, who influence the Athletic Department HEAVILY.

Jim O'Brien was a great coach, but knowingly employed questionable practices. Scoonie Penn is a great example of that. Matta, however, will most likely plead ignorance of any wrong-doings by his staff and or the boosters.

I hope Thad Matta doesn't turn out to be trash, and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt now, but I truly believe he will be assimilated by the OSU machine. Damn shame, really.

Chip R
12-17-2006, 03:27 PM
And, if you want to talk about crooked and cheaters, tell me with a straight face that the whole Oden playing for 1 year thing doesn't just stink on some level. He's a rent-a-player and nothing more -- the collegiate equivalent of a free agent.




Remember this guy?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2000/nba_draft/draftboard/players/19.html

Did that stink on some level too?

Caveat Emperor
12-17-2006, 03:40 PM
Remember this guy?

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2000/nba_draft/draftboard/players/19.html

Did that stink on some level too?

I also remember this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dontonio_Wingfield

No high-profile college program is immune from criticism on this front, it's just gotten a little shadier with the NBA rule that basically makes these guys 1-year free agents at the collegiate level. It used to be just "understood" -- now it's out there in the open that guys like Oden aren't "student-athletes", they're just athletes that happen to be playing competitively on a college campus.

And yeah, it stinks on a lot of levels.

Reds4Life
12-17-2006, 03:43 PM
Great point, but I want to defend Matta. He will become a product of filth due to OSU. I believe he's a great guy and a great coach, but he'll be dragged down thanks to the wonderful OSU boosters, who influence the Athletic Department HEAVILY.

Jim O'Brien was a great coach, but knowingly employed questionable practices. Scoonie Penn is a great example of that. Matta, however, will most likely plead ignorance of any wrong-doings by his staff and or the boosters.

I hope Thad Matta doesn't turn out to be trash, and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt now, but I truly believe he will be assimilated by the OSU machine. Damn shame, really.

I agree with you 100% on the boosters, I doubt Matta is giving them cash or gifts directly, not many coaches are that stupid, but I wouldn't be shocked in the least if the boosters are back to their old tricks at OSU. If Matta had a track record as a major recruiter it wouldn't be that much of an issue, but he doesn't. Wonder how many of the OSU players are driving around in new Escalades? Probably more than you'd guess.

max venable
12-17-2006, 03:51 PM
Easy to beat a program once it's been declawed. Typical for OSU, though.

That's one giant bone-headed statement right there. So what are you saying? OSU only schedules cupcakes? Okay...let's see, @UNC, @ Florida, and Tennessee in their non-conference schedule.

What's UC's non-conference schedule look like this year?

I love how UC fans come on here and say things like, "Yeah, we suck now...so don't get too excited because well...we would have beaten you in years past. Lame. During the UC Huggins ear, OSU had just as many final four appearances during that span and won three Big Ten titles.

'Course, it wouldn't be right to turn things around...suppose OSU played UC when OSU sucked (yes, they sucked during the mid-90's)...would UC fans say, "Well, it's not really fair because OSU is "down" right now. Let's play them when their team is better...how 'bout 2006...maybe we'll both be good by then...or not."

max venable
12-17-2006, 03:53 PM
I agree with you 100% on the boosters, I doubt Matta is giving them cash or gifts directly, not many coaches are that stupid, but I wouldn't be shocked in the least if the boosters are back to their old tricks at OSU. If Matta had a track record as a major recruiter it wouldn't be that much of an issue, but he doesn't. Wonder how many of the OSU players are driving around in new Escalades? Probably more than you'd guess.

Yeah...Matta's doing a great job...let's accuse him (or the boosters) of cheating...yeah...that's it...they're good now...they must be cheating. Reasonable assumption. :rolleyes:

BTW: proven fact: Huggins =:all_cohol

traderumor
12-17-2006, 04:09 PM
Great point, but I want to defend Matta. He will become a product of filth due to OSU. I believe he's a great guy and a great coach, but he'll be dragged down thanks to the wonderful OSU boosters, who influence the Athletic Department HEAVILY.

Jim O'Brien was a great coach, but knowingly employed questionable practices. Scoonie Penn is a great example of that. Matta, however, will most likely plead ignorance of any wrong-doings by his staff and or the boosters.

I hope Thad Matta doesn't turn out to be trash, and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt now, but I truly believe he will be assimilated by the OSU machine. Damn shame, really.I'm trying to figure out what in the world you are saying. You want to defend Matta by saying he will become a product of filth?

Did boosters drag down O'Brien?

An ignorant booster handed Troy Smith some cash, he was booted away from any contact with the athletic program, including season tickets. There have been two major NCAA investigations, who have not been known to be the fairest and most judicial organization over the years, one in football and basketball, and no chronic, institutional problems were found. The incidents were unique and corrective action was taken. The other problem is now rotting in a jail cell, with any chance of credibility for the charges he brought sitting there with him.

Boosters are always a problem in big time college sports no matter what the program. tOSU (just for you CE) has managed their boosters pretty well, I'd say, considering the limited number and nature of problems over the years and the size of the booster base.

Reds4Life
12-17-2006, 04:09 PM
Yeah...Matta's doing a great job...let's accuse him (or the boosters) of cheating...yeah...that's it...they're good now...they must be cheating. Reasonable assumption. :rolleyes:

BTW: proven fact: Huggins =:all_cohol

It's also a proven fact that Ohio State has a long history of NCAA sanctions and illegal recruiting activity.

max venable
12-17-2006, 04:12 PM
It's also a proven fact that Ohio State has a long history of NCAA sanctions and illegal recruiting activity.

So....that proves that Matta cheats...I guess.

"Long history" is funny. :rolleyes:

traderumor
12-17-2006, 04:19 PM
Bob Goin, the old UC AD had a quote in the paper a couple days ago that he had tried to schedule this game for a long time but Geiger would always refuse and the only reason he would give them is "We have to get better first."

So either Goin's a liar, or the Buckeyes were scared of playing the game all those years realizing that UC would have won the majority of them.

Would you mind linking that article?

As for your last statement, there is another possibility. The Buckeyes, way back when, said it would be a cold day in bedrock that they would play UC again and Geiger merely perpetuated the tradition. So, the game was played, I have no idea what the motivations were, and quite frankly after reading some of the comments now that they did, I'm with Matta--what good reason is there, really? They don't play X either, but I haven't seen their fans on here whining.

traderumor
12-17-2006, 04:22 PM
It's also a proven fact that Ohio State has a long history of NCAA sanctions and illegal recruiting activity.I agree. Ohio State has a long history. In bball, their program has been about as consistent as UC's.

Highlifeman21
12-17-2006, 04:33 PM
I'm trying to figure out what in the world you are saying. You want to defend Matta by saying he will become a product of filth?

Did boosters drag down O'Brien?

An ignorant booster handed Troy Smith some cash, he was booted away from any contact with the athletic program, including season tickets. There have been two major NCAA investigations, who have not been known to be the fairest and most judicial organization over the years, one in football and basketball, and no chronic, institutional problems were found. The incidents were unique and corrective action was taken. The other problem is now rotting in a jail cell, with any chance of credibility for the charges he brought sitting there with him.

Boosters are always a problem in big time college sports no matter what the program. tOSU (just for you CE) has managed their boosters pretty well, I'd say, considering the limited number and nature of problems over the years and the size of the booster base.


Booster didn't drag down O'Brien. He was trash.

Matta isn't trash to me, but I think the boosters will lead him down the path of trash. Hopefully he will separate himself from his surroundings, but I think he will plead ignorance if there is any dirt still in the OSU hoops program.

OSU is an Athletic Department far from angelic, and they took a pre-emptive strike following the O'Brien era to try and wipe all the dirt under the rug before the NCAA could come down and hand out the punishment they most likely rightfully deserved.

IIRC, didn't OSU have to take down 1999 Final Four Banners out of the Schott b/c of O'Brien and crew?

Chip R
12-17-2006, 04:33 PM
I also remember this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dontonio_Wingfield

No high-profile college program is immune from criticism on this front, it's just gotten a little shadier with the NBA rule that basically makes these guys 1-year free agents at the collegiate level. It used to be just "understood" -- now it's out there in the open that guys like Oden aren't "student-athletes", they're just athletes that happen to be playing competitively on a college campus.

And yeah, it stinks on a lot of levels.


But you insinuated Matta and OSU were cheaters because they got a guy like Oden who is only staying one year. Does that mean UC and Huggins were cheating as well? Because there have been - and probably still are - a lot of guys who went through UC just for the hoops. People who live in glass houses...

WMR
12-17-2006, 04:33 PM
I want annual rematches just for the resulting war of words between the Bearcat and Buckeye fans.

I think what really rubs people the wrong way is how Matta was so flippant in his dismissal of playing UC more regularly. Playing them when they did with the resulting words from Matta does come across as very OSU'ish.

Caveat Emperor
12-17-2006, 04:36 PM
Would you mind linking that article?

As for your last statement, there is another possibility. The Buckeyes, way back when, said it would be a cold day in bedrock that they would play UC again and Geiger merely perpetuated the tradition. So, the game was played, I have no idea what the motivations were, and quite frankly after reading some of the comments now that they did, I'm with Matta--what good reason is there, really? They don't play X either, but I haven't seen their fans on here whining.

http://www.dispatch.com/bball/bball.php?story=dispatch/2006/12/15/20061215-F1-00.html

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:YIYsBrH6UacJ:news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article%3FAID%3D/20061216/SPT0101/612160432+%22Bob+Goin%22+schedule+Ohio+State&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=firefox-a

Caveat Emperor
12-17-2006, 04:42 PM
But you insinuated Matta and OSU were cheaters because they got a guy like Oden who is only staying one year. Does that mean UC and Huggins were cheating as well? Because there have been - and probably still are - a lot of guys who went through UC just for the hoops. People who live in glass houses...

The big difference now is that you've got people like Oden who are being recruited by coaches with complete knowledge and awareness on all sides that they are only temporary guests of the program until their NBA eligibility kicks in.

You have to ask: what are the coaches selling these kids on in order to get them to spend their 1 year at OSU vs. some other school. What exactly did Matta tell Oden to get him to sign a LOI with OSU? It's a new reality of college basketball that demands greater scrutiny to ensure that these guys aren't actually being treated like free agents.

And, I have no connection to the UC program -- I think the way they operated under Huggins was entertaining, but a bit of a black eye on the college game. I just call things as I see them (I graduated from a school that gave itself the death penalty for a point-shaving scandal).

traderumor
12-17-2006, 04:48 PM
Geiger first told then-UC athletic director Bob Goin that Ohio State was "not good enough" to compete with the Bearcats, who by then were a top-10 program.

After O’Brien quickly transformed the Buckeyes into a Big Ten contender and took Ohio State to the Final Four in his second season, Geiger’s rationale changed.

"The key games on the schedule are the Big Ten. Playing a game that in the minds of some is bigger than the Big Ten doesn’t make any sense. I still feel this way," he said this week. Sounds to me like someone thinking of any excuse in the world to not open a can of worms. Of course, if one wants to really believe its "we're scared of ya," by all means don't let me stop you. The context of the comment, which thank you for the article, CE, is O'Brien's first year, which was a bad team and would not have made any sense to play. Anyhow, I'm still trying to figure out why UC spends so much energy pouting about who won't play them (e.g. UK for years, tOSU)? Tell them to get lost and schedule top programs from all areas of the country.

paintmered
12-17-2006, 04:52 PM
OSU was clearly the better team yesterday.

However, considering the status of the two programs, boasting of yesterday's win smacks of arrogance. Congrats OSU fans, your team beat a UC team with a grad total of ONE returning letter. Yippee.

UC fans, please stop with the conspiracy theories. It makes us look like bad losers. None of us know why the game was scheduled. This season is simply an aberration for both programs and a very convenient time for OSU to pick up an easy victory.

Time to move on.

traderumor
12-17-2006, 04:55 PM
The big difference now is that you've got people like Oden who are being recruited by coaches with complete knowledge and awareness on all sides that they are only temporary guests of the program until their NBA eligibility kicks in.

You have to ask: what are the coaches selling these kids on in order to get them to spend their 1 year at OSU vs. some other school. What exactly did Matta tell Oden to get him to sign a LOI with OSU? It's a new reality of college basketball that demands greater scrutiny to ensure that these guys aren't actually being treated like free agents.

And, I have no connection to the UC program -- I think the way they operated under Huggins was entertaining, but a bit of a black eye on the college game. I just call things as I see them (I graduated from a school that gave itself the death penalty for a point-shaving scandal).

My understanding of Oden's recruting is that it was going on before Matta moved on to Ohio State. It is a unique situation where Cook, Conley and Oden played together in AAU ball and wanted to play together in college. Also, I haven't seen any discussions and innuendo about North Carolina's recruiting class and techniques to secure the players they did. Surely Roy Williams cheated and made shady promises to get those boys to commit as well.

traderumor
12-17-2006, 04:56 PM
OSU was clearly the better team yesterday.

However, considering the status of the two programs, boasting of yesterday's win smacks of arrogance. Congrats OSU fans, your team beat a UC team with a grad total of ONE returning letter. Yippee.

UC fans, please stop with the conspiracy theories. It makes us look like bad losers. None of us know why the game was scheduled. This season is simply an aberration for both programs and a very convenient time for OSU to pick up an easy victory.

Time to move on.I really haven't seen tOSU fans boasting. I've seen them addressing ridiculous accusations, but not boasting.

max venable
12-17-2006, 05:15 PM
I really haven't seen tOSU fans boasting. I've seen them addressing ridiculous accusations, but not boasting.

I was just about to post the same thing. Please cite the post or posts of OSU fans who boasted. Thanks.

Chip R
12-17-2006, 05:24 PM
The big difference now is that you've got people like Oden who are being recruited by coaches with complete knowledge and awareness on all sides that they are only temporary guests of the program until their NBA eligibility kicks in.

You have to ask: what are the coaches selling these kids on in order to get them to spend their 1 year at OSU vs. some other school. What exactly did Matta tell Oden to get him to sign a LOI with OSU? It's a new reality of college basketball that demands greater scrutiny to ensure that these guys aren't actually being treated like free agents.



Ah, but everyone knew Johnson was outta here after his freshman year as well. The only difference is that Oden has to attend a year while Johnson did not. Johnson was also recruited highly so what did Huggins offer him that other teams did not? And good for DerMarr. I'm sure that one year at UC will set him up for life after his basketball career is over. :rolleyes:

Maybe Matta offered him a chance to play at a big time program with his high school teammate where he could be on TV a lot, develop his game and possibly win a national championship. Plus OSU is only a couple of hours from Indy. Makes it much easier for the Odens to get in the family truckster and cruise on over to Columbus to watch Greg play. UConn could offer him that except they aren't quite as close as OSU is. They could have gone to Indiana but they have been in such a state of flux there, you can't blame him for not going. I don't know if Louisville or UK recruited him but I don't think LOU would be a good fit for him in regards to style of play. I'm sure UK fans could give a better answer than I could for him not going to UK. Duke probably wouldn't take him cause they usually only recruit guys who will stay there 3-4 years.

As for giving them money, why bother? Oden's going to be the #1 pick in 6 months and he'll have all the money he or his family will need. In the old days guys had to stay 4 years so there was more incentive to give them money. Does it still go on? Probably. But not at the level it used to. However, if you are intent on looking for some nefarious reason why Oden signed with OSU, you mught want to see what sneaker he wears when he turns pro. If it's the same shoe as OSU uses, you might have something there.

I'm not so sure this one and done thing is better for the college or pro game than guys just going straight from high school. Nobody seems to cry when baseball players go pro right after high school. Theoretically speaking, a guy could go to college for a year and realize he's not ready for the NBA yet. So he sticks around for 3 more years, gets his degree and maybe plays in the NBA for a while and when he retires, he can put that degree to good use. Or he sticks around for a couple years and learns a thing or two on and off the court then goes to the NBA. But the reality is more like he just scrapes by in school and goes pro in June and hopefully he won't need that sheepskin. But it's just for PR purposes. The NBA was receiving too much criticism for having such young guys playing. So now instead of getting 18 year olds playing, they have 19 year olds. Big difference. :rolleyes:

Caseyfan21
12-17-2006, 05:53 PM
I think part of the reason we got the commits from the "Thad 5" was because one of their official visits was for the Illinois game two years ago. I think we could have recruited Michael Jordan with the atmosphere that day. OSU looked and felt like a basketball school when we upset Illinois to ruin their perfect season. Someone can feel free to correct me but I'm pretty sure Oden and Co. were in attendance that day. Having friends that have been recruited by major college programs I think one of the main things they look for is a good fit; a good program with great fans and tradition. OSU has had a winning program in years past and I think the atmosphere that day along with the Michigan game that year played a major role in showing these guys how OSU fans felt.

As for my feelings about OSU ducking UC, I think to a point that has been true. Why would some of the lesser OSU teams of the mid 90's want to schedule a non conference game where they will get smacked? As for the other 30 years since the last game I think there were more factors involved in the decision than one team is good and the other isn't. If UC fans really believe OSU didn't play them for 40 years because they were scared than they need to get off their high horse. I think that played a part during the mid 90's but other than that there were probably other factors at work. I think Gene Smith and Matta wanted to play UC as witnessed by this years matchup but I don't think it's of benefit to the OSU program year in and year out. It would just create another rivalry game early in the season that would draw attention away from other games. If Matta wants to consistently schedule top 5 programs he can't afford to have two top 5 programs as well as UC in 10 non conference games if he wants to build up wins before the Big 10 schedule. Isn't the non conference portion of the schedule used to play a couple marquee games and then have cupcakes to work on things? OSU is already penciled in for the ACC/Big 10 challenge which will typically be a huge game and it seems Matta has tried to schedule another huge game to go along with some cupcakes. UC is currently nowhere near being a consistent top 5 program so they wouldn't really help the Buckeyes RPI and tournament readiness. It would just be a tough rivalry game which the Buckeyes really don't need if they can continue to play the UNC's and Florida's.

I don't mean to sound conceited or arrogant but I think this is the Matta's line of thinking. He has said he wants OSU to be more like UNC and that program has been one he admires. If that's what he's aiming for (and that's what he thinks he can achieve) than he might as well try to play the best teams with 2-3 of those non conference games. UC is currently a middle of the pack Big East team. I believe if UC can bounce back and consistently be a top 10 program than there would be a much greater chance of OSU playing UC (if Matta is at OSU). At this point playing UC would only be a tougher than normal non conference game because of the rivalry aspect of the matchup, that cannot help OSU when they are already playing 2 top 5 teams in the nonconference schedule.

Reds4Life
12-17-2006, 06:38 PM
My understanding of Oden's recruting is that it was going on before Matta moved on to Ohio State. It is a unique situation where Cook, Conley and Oden played together in AAU ball and wanted to play together in college. Also, I haven't seen any discussions and innuendo about North Carolina's recruiting class and techniques to secure the players they did. Surely Roy Williams cheated and made shady promises to get those boys to commit as well.

Roy Williams was an elite coach when he went to UNC, not some schmuck from a mid-major school with a poor recruiting record.

GAC
12-17-2006, 06:47 PM
I really haven't seen tOSU fans boasting. I've seen them addressing ridiculous accusations, but not boasting.

Exactly.

And was it an OSU fan that started the thread?

I have followed the Bearcats basketball program far more closely than I have OSU's over the last several years thanks to O'Brien.

How can anyone boast about beating a Bearcat program that has been decimated by Zimpher? It would be ridiculous to do so.

I definitely feel for Bearcat fans and their frustration.

Their basketball program, over the last decade, has been superior to OSU's that's for sure.

I'm just glad that OSU has taken the right steps to "right" theirs by hiring Matta, who I followed while at Xavier.

GAC
12-17-2006, 06:52 PM
LOL why is every sentence a new paragraph in your posts, GAC?

So some of these people can understand them.

And I have a paragraph fetish. ;)

Redlegs23
12-17-2006, 06:54 PM
The context of the comment, which thank you for the article, CE, is O'Brien's first year, which was a bad team and would not have made any sense to play. Anyhow, I'm still trying to figure out why UC spends so much energy pouting about who won't play them (e.g. UK for years, tOSU)? Tell them to get lost and schedule top programs from all areas of the country.

You say it wouldn't have made any sense to play because it was a bad team. A lot of UC fans are frustrated (including myself obviously) because this is the first bad team we've had in a long time and yes, it doesn't really make any sense to play on our part for once. I think the main reason Goin agreed to it is that OSU has refused the game for so long and he was hoping breaking the ice and getting this game scheduled would lead to more games in the future. Unfortunately that isn't the case due to Thad not wanting to play any more.

That being said, I'm not so much mad and pouting that OSU won't play UC as you say, but that they refused for so many years, and 3 months after our coach gets fired and all our recruits leave they finally agree to the game. Then they say they have no interest in future games. Turn the situation around with OSU and UC and I imagine you would feel the same way along with a lot of OSU fans. Basically UC fans wish they could've had a shot at OSU when they weren't so down. I feel that they should either play more often, or not at all, but to pick and choose when you know it will be an easy win is bull crap.

That being said I think the accusations of Thad paying recruits and whatever is uncalled for unless there is some kind of proof. It might be going on, but shady business is probably going on at every big college in the country. And I don't think it's shady that Thad took Oden and whoever as a "rent a player" as some people said. Any coach in the country would love to have those guys even if it is just for one year. That's the result of the new NBA rule, and Thad just took advantage of it like any other coach would and is.

Cyclone792
12-17-2006, 08:48 PM
Geiger first told then-UC athletic director Bob Goin that Ohio State was "not good enough" to compete with the Bearcats, who by then were a top-10 program.

After O’Brien quickly transformed the Buckeyes into a Big Ten contender and took Ohio State to the Final Four in his second season, Geiger’s rationale changed.

"The key games on the schedule are the Big Ten. Playing a game that in the minds of some is bigger than the Big Ten doesn’t make any sense. I still feel this way," he said this week.

Geiger's quote is absolutely hilarious, because it's a flimsy excuse that really holds no water. This is college hoops, not college football here. The non-conference schedule actually means something in college hoops.

The NCAA selection committee looks at non-conference strength of schedule and overall RPI pretty darn heavily when selecting and seeding teams for the NCAA tournament. Of course conference games are going to be very important, but if your non-conference schedule is weak, well good luck convincing the selection committee that you truly are an elite team.

Additionally, if your fellow Big Ten schools have weak non-conference schedules, then the overall conference itself becomes weaker, which lessens the impact of those Big Ten games Geiger cared about so much.

For a team like the infamous College of Columbus, scheduling UC during the Huggins era would have been not only an asset to the Buckeye's non-conference strength of schedule and even the Big Ten overall, but it also would have strengthened their RPI, and it would have aided the Buckeyes in receiving more favorable seedings in years they made the NCAA tourney.

Here's UC's tourney's seeds each season ...

1992: 4 seed
1993: 2 seed
1994: 8 seed
1995: 7 seed
1996: 2 seed
1997: 3 seed
1998: 2 seed
1999: 3 seed
2000: 2 seed*
2001: 5 seed
2002: 1 seed
2003: 8 seed
2004: 4 seed
2005: 7 seed

*2000 was the infamous Kenyon Martin broken leg season where Martin broke his leg in a conference tournament game against Saint Louis. With a healthy Martin, the Bearcats likely would have been a #1 seed and favorite to win the NCAA Championship. They were ranked #1 in the country for 12 weeks during the regular season.

That's 14 straight NCAA Tournament appearances, and in 10 of those seasons UC was seeded #5 or better. I guarantee you scheduling that type of team on the Buckeyes' non-conference schedule would have been an asset for their RPI and SOS. The NCAA selection committee looks for a tough non-conference schedule. For OSU, scheduling UC during the Huggins era would have helped their non-conference schedule. Why in the world would they not do it?

Anyhow, what's done is done and can't be re-written. It's very coincidental that OSU refused to allow the UC/OSU game from happening until this season, and it's even more coincidental that Matta apparently doesn't want the game to happen annually. Given what I've already seen from OSU, none of that surprising at all.

Highlifeman21
12-17-2006, 09:10 PM
Everyone go watch the movie "Blue Chips".

You tell me that stuff still doesn't go on today and I will call you a liar to your face.

The boosters are worse than ever now b/c all of these kids are household names in HS, and said boosters want those household names to play at their respective schools.

Imagine if the NBA had their current rule in place and LeBron was forced to play college ball for a year. Tell me some school would have gotten him to commit 100% legally.

College athletics are dirty. It's a fact. They should just make the benefits these kids already get legal, and give them money since they are already essentially semi-pro athletes and they generate millions of dollars for their respective schools. Some will counter with the athletes usually get a free education, but tell me how many of those athletes are really there for the education...

max venable
12-17-2006, 09:16 PM
Call me a liar. Stuff like that might go on in some places but not every place. I think there are a lot of coaches who run their programs with honesty and integrity...and I think there are lot of kids who are honest and have integrity.

If I was a blue chipper...I WOULD NOT want to go play for a coach who would be willing to cheat to get me to go there.

I don't think it's fair at all to make a blanket statement saying every program and every coach, at some level, is dirty. I simply don't think that's true. There are still people in the world who play above the boards.

Chip R
12-17-2006, 09:27 PM
You know, both schools played Division 1 basketball before 1992. And they hadn't played each other since 1962? OSU was a pretty good team most of those years and UC was not. So why didn't OSU schedule UC after 1962 and before 1992? They probably could have beat them most of the time - especially before Huggins took over. So it can't be just the animosity Geiger had/has for Huggins. There had to be another reason.

traderumor
12-17-2006, 10:38 PM
Roy Williams was an elite coach when he went to UNC, not some schmuck from a mid-major school with a poor recruiting record.
Would that be the same schmuck who nearly took X to the Final Four in a near miss with Duke? Three year record of 78-23 at X? Took Butler to the NCAA game with 20-8 record, won a first round game over Georgia Tech, in his only year there. Surprised many with a Big 10 Championship last season, a team that was lucky to be picked in the middle of the pack.

Now, I don't know about his recruiting at X, but they won everything when he was there. Then, in just his 3rd year at OSU signs a potentially historic class. Sorry, but that is not the record of a schmuck and a poor recruiter.

Out of all of the posts in this thread, that may be the most ridiculous one yet.

traderumor
12-17-2006, 10:40 PM
Geiger's quote is absolutely hilarious, because it's a flimsy excuse that really holds no water. I think he was giving them the old "its not you, its me."

bucksfan
12-17-2006, 10:50 PM
What I wouldnt have done to see what Lazelle Duden or Darnell Burton could have done in this game. UC scored 14 pts in one half, and shot under 20%. But, as you said neither the current state of either team is not able to be changed, nor is the outcome of the game.

But what is sparking the debate and the hostility is that this game was 44 years in the making, and Matta is talking like there is nothing to gain from continuing the series. This only fuels the talk that OSU waited for a down year and took advantage of it, no matter how unlikely or ridiculous it sounds. As far as I am concerned, intrastate rivalries can only benefit both teams. Wouldnt you also want to see them play each other every year? The games would only get better, the rivalry more heated, and it would put an end to this waiting for a "down year" talk?

I agree. I'd love to see them play every year. I won't even try to understand the why's or why-not's as it is pretty apparent to me that it really will not make much sense.

I played in an open gym with LaZelle one time up here in Toledo. He was better than I was, that's for sure! ;)

I honestly believe there are many clean programs out there, or at least programs trying their very best to do everything the right way in this difficult and "high-stakes" environment. I also chose to believe tOSU is one of them. I hope so because I think knowingly and willfully cheating is horrible regardless of who is doing it.

registerthis
12-18-2006, 10:25 AM
Nobody is blaming anyone, it's a fact. OSU flat out refused to play UC for the better part of a decade. They didn't accept the game because OSU knew they'd lose.

So all of those other tough, non-conference games OSU scheduled during the past decade or so were against teams they thought they would beat? :rolleyes:

That OSU has for years refused to play UofC is hardly a secret. But I hardly think it's due to an irrepressable fear of complete Bearcat domination.

Redlegs23
12-18-2006, 10:55 AM
So all of those other tough, non-conference games OSU scheduled during the past decade or so were against teams they thought they would beat? :rolleyes:

That OSU has for years refused to play UofC is hardly a secret. But I hardly think it's due to an irrepressable fear of complete Bearcat domination.

It's one thing to lose a non-conference game to somebody like Texas. Completely different losing to a team that's 100 miles away in the same state. There's a lot of negative consequences from losing a game like that, especially with recruiting.

As I said in my previous post, UC would not have won every game, but probably would've won most. The reason Geiger initially gave for refusing the game is "we have to get better first." That says that OSU was a little worried about losing.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 11:08 AM
Wow. This thread. Where to begin?

First, I find it amazing the gnashing of teeth over not playing annually. Isn't UC's rival X? Do you really think OSU is afraid of UC? That just doesn't make much sense to me. And why does it matter? I'm sorry, but it smells of a big time inferiority-complex. And to say that OSU would have no chance to ever beat the mighty UC the past 15+ years is ridiculous. I'm sure they would have had no chance in 1990-1991, 1991-1992, 1998-1999, 1999-2000, or 2005-2006. Yeah, poor UC. Always the dominating force while little old Ohio State just laid low. Now UC struggles and then the big, bad, and sneaky Ohio State University, with it's first decent team EVER, wants to take advantage of the poor, depleted UC program. Let me ask you this? Where was the cries to play OSU back during the salad-eating days of the Don Jantonio-Rick Yudt era? Did you care then?

What I find ironic is that nobody paid much attention to OSU back in the 80's and 90's. They'd make a little run here and there in hoops and had a few decent years in football, but it wasn't until they won the National Championship in football (2002) that the "claws" came out. Now they land Matta and he is putting together an exciting program with a great group of class individuals and the haters are back in full force to tarnish anything and everything that is good. We see it with Jim Tressel. A good, honorable man that can do nothing right according to these people. A man, that could be the second coming and still be hated by the miserable opposing fanbases of the world. Nothing can ever be accomplished by an Ohio State or anyone, for that matter, without the accompanied chants of "cheaters" associated with it. It doesn't matter. We are a nation full of sore losers. Look at the Steelers. I'm not a fan of theirs, but they win the Superbowl and everyone claims that it was a tainted title. "The refs gave it to them." "They cheated by taking out Carson." "The Yankees and Red Sox are evil because ESPN loves them and they have so much money." "It's not fair." blah blah blah. You eat, sleep, digest, and poop all the crap that is stuffed in your faces by ESPN and the other "news-producing" entities. You help create the superstar mega athlete and then when your are tired of him or he wins something against your team, you turn on him and grab hold of that witch-hunt that the "news" entities create. Then, when you've had enough of that, you complain that ESPN and the like are creating news and sensationalizing. We are a nation not only of nasty sore losers, but hypocrites as well.

I know, I know. It's just so convenient to just accept Ohio State as a dirty, corrupt program. But guess what, opposing fans and the media alike have been painting that picture of Huggins for all those years as well. Tell me, did that make you happy? Was it fair? Oh well, if it's all about perceptions and sensationalist hack journalism, than have at it. Anyway, keep believing OSU is the source of all evil if it makes you sleep better at night.

Go Bucks!

Roy Tucker
12-18-2006, 11:22 AM
Now they land Matta and he is putting together an exciting program with a great group of class individuals and the haters are back in full force to tarnish anything and everything that is good.

Jeepers, where is the spit-take emoticon?

Let me first say I'm an OSU alumni and also my son goes to UC. I love college sports at both schools and both programs have had their ups and downs over the years. Accusations of ducking each other are a little silly. I think it just worked out the way it did and I don't see any grassy knoll type conspiracies here. Cronin was trying to rev up an otherwise-disasterous looking season with a little rivalry talk. Matta is all caught up in their big season and said "what?". Cronin probably should have gotten the ADs talking without going public first. Matta should have just kept his mouth shut.

But good Lord, putting Thad Matta up as a beacon of light in the unholy world of college hoops is simply laughable. He is a carpetbagger coach just like Mick Cronin is. I'd trust any NCAA Div. 1 college coach about as far as I can throw my desk. They are all in it for the money and they are all looking to leap-frog to their next bigger job.

And calling OSU's current freshman class "a great group of class individuals" is a little goofy as well. They are all looking at the NBA and the first inkling they get of getting drafted in the 1st round, they'll be gone so fast your head will spin. Let's keep a little perspective here.

dabvu2498
12-18-2006, 11:27 AM
Roy Williams was an elite coach when he went to UNC, not some schmuck from a mid-major school with a poor recruiting record.

Is this a reference to Matta or Huggins???

registerthis
12-18-2006, 11:28 AM
As I said in my previous post, UC would not have won every game, but probably would've won most. The reason Geiger initially gave for refusing the game is "we have to get better first." That says that OSU was a little worried about losing.

Sounds more like a dodge of a larger issue, to me.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 11:42 AM
Jeepers, where is the spit-take emoticon?

All the crap-filled innuendo flung in this thread and you need to gag yourself over my post. Nice. Very polite.



But good Lord, putting Thad Matta up as a beacon of light in the unholy world of college hoops is simply laughable.

As laughable as you putting words into my mouth.



He is a carpetbagger coach just like Mick Cronin is.

So, I guess that term would apply to any coach that get his start somewhere and works his way up. Is there any coach the term "carpetbagger" wouldn't apply too?



I'd trust any NCAA Div. 1 college coach about as far as I can throw my desk. They are all in it for the money and they are all looking to leap-frog to their next bigger job.

Sounds pretty much like every human being on the face of the earth. But, those damn coaches.


And calling OSU's current freshman class "a great group of class individuals" is a little goofy as well. They are all looking at the NBA and the first inkling they get of getting drafted in the 1st round, they'll be gone so fast your head will spin. Let's keep a little perspective here.

Goofy as calling every coach in America a carpetbagger. Let me get this straight, you can't be a class individual if your goal is the NBA? Uh, ok. that would remove every kid that's ever played college basketball from being "classy". Ayway, I would hope all of them would leave early if they have a chance to be drafted in the first round. Good for them.

By the way, read up on Oden and Conley sometime. Listen to them being interviewed. Try to form your own opinion instead of accepting the regurgitated slop that's continually thrown out there.

Red Leader
12-18-2006, 11:58 AM
I'm just going to say this.

I think it's easier to talk about politics than it is about Ohio State these days.

Rediculous. Just completely rediculous.

Maybe all Ohio State threads should be moved to an offsite forum as well because all they do is turn into a bunch of dung-slinging jabs anyway.

pedro
12-18-2006, 12:04 PM
I'm just going to say this.

I think it's easier to talk about politics than it is about Ohio State these days.

Rediculous. Just completely rediculous.

Maybe all Ohio State threads should be moved to an offsite forum as well because all they do is turn into a bunch of dung-slinging jabs anyway.

No kidding. Talk about being over sensitive.

Highlifeman21
12-18-2006, 12:20 PM
Call me a liar. Stuff like that might go on in some places but not every place. I think there are a lot of coaches who run their programs with honesty and integrity...and I think there are lot of kids who are honest and have integrity.

If I was a blue chipper...I WOULD NOT want to go play for a coach who would be willing to cheat to get me to go there.

I don't think it's fair at all to make a blanket statement saying every program and every coach, at some level, is dirty. I simply don't think that's true. There are still people in the world who play above the boards.

Then you're a liar.

That stuff happens everywhere, to varying degrees. The NCAA is nothing more than a cat and mouse game with the Athletic Departments and various teams trying to stay 1 step ahead of an investigation, while the sanctioning body tries to come up with new and unique ways to slap programs on the wrist at least, if not come down with huge penalties.

I think all coaches try to run programs with honesty and integrity, but it's a competitive world, and each coach wants that competitive advantage over others. It can come in many forms: recruiting, game facilities, practice facilities, training facilities, etc. At the end of the day, your successful/winning programs that place such emphasis on results will cut numerous corners to get ahead.

You might be the only hypothetical blue chipper out there with honesty and integrity. Recruiting is nothing more than a bidding war.

I'm not trying to make this personal, or an OSU attack, b/c all your major Div I programs have dirt to them. Some are dirtier than others, but I guarantee there is not 1 single major Div I program in either football or men's hoops that is 100% squeaky clean to the letter of the law.

westofyou
12-18-2006, 12:25 PM
Classy thread.... classy.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 12:44 PM
I'm just going to say this.

I think it's easier to talk about politics than it is about Ohio State these days.

Rediculous. Just completely rediculous.

Maybe all Ohio State threads should be moved to an offsite forum as well because all they do is turn into a bunch of dung-slinging jabs anyway.

Totally agree.

I love this board for Reds baseball. I don't know why I bother with off-topic, but when I see a bunch of misinformation spread about my alma mater, I can't let it go.

It does seem that the venom spewed towards OSU is pretty harsh over here. Lot's of hate.

Red Leader
12-18-2006, 01:05 PM
Totally agree.
It does seem that the venom spewed towards OSU is pretty harsh over here. Lot's of hate.


While that may be and probably is true in some cases, the arrogance displayed by OSU fans these days is just as appalling and nauseating, if not moreso.

There just doesn't seem to be any civil way of talking about them anymore, at least that I've seen on this board.

westofyou
12-18-2006, 01:11 PM
While that may be and probably is true in some cases, the arrogance displayed by OSU fans these days is just as appalling and nauseating, if not moreso.

There just doesn't seem to be any civil way of talking about them anymore, at least that I've seen on this board.

“Arrogance diminishes wisdom”

rdiersin
12-18-2006, 01:15 PM
Wow. This thread. Where to begin?
First, I find it amazing the gnashing of teeth over not playing annually. Isn't UC's rival X? Do you really think OSU is afraid of UC? That just doesn't make much sense to me. And why does it matter? I'm sorry, but it smells of a big time inferiority-complex.


What's so amazing about it? Louisville plays UK. IU and Purdue played twice even when the Big Ten season had them only playing once. Marquette and Wisconsin have been playing. IU and UK also have been playing even though they may be losing recruits to one another. Those games are big games, even when the teams aren't the greatest. They are interesting and good for the sport. A OSU/UC matchup has the possibility of being one of those games, and thereby helping both schools. But, while one school has been wanting to play it, another doesn't. They are the two largest schools in the state and the two highest profile basketball teams, playing in high profile conferences.

There certainly would be money brought in by this game. So if it isn't the money, and Ohio State would certainly make money out of a home and home or neutral court offering, then why wouldn't they want to play it? Fear (of hurting recruiting) seems like a plaussible reason. So if it isn't fear or money, (probably exposure as well, which goes along with money, because it would almost certainly be on national TV), then what is the reason Ohio State doesn't want to play UC annually?

registerthis
12-18-2006, 01:33 PM
Totally agree.

I love this board for Reds baseball. I don't know why I bother with off-topic, but when I see a bunch of misinformation spread about my alma mater, I can't let it go.

It does seem that the venom spewed towards OSU is pretty harsh over here. Lot's of hate.

It's my alma mater too, and I thought Roy's post was fair and made legitimate points.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 01:37 PM
While that may be and probably is true in some cases, the arrogance displayed by OSU fans these days is just as appalling and nauseating, if not moreso.

There just doesn't seem to be any civil way of talking about them anymore, at least that I've seen on this board.

I haven't seen any in this thread. Of course, maybe it (arrogance) is prevalent throughout this off-topic side, but I haven't spent much time over here.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 01:43 PM
It's my alma mater too, and I thought Roy's post was fair and made legitimate points.

Register, and what points were not legitimate in my post made prior to his?

Please also list the points that he made in his post that you feel were so legitimate to warrant your critique.

Please tell me how my response to Roy was improper.

I never attacked anyone.

dabvu2498
12-18-2006, 01:46 PM
“Arrogance diminishes wisdom”

“Everything I do, I feel is genius. Whether it is or it isn't.”

westofyou
12-18-2006, 01:48 PM
“Everything I do, I feel is genius. Whether it is or it isn't.”

"It's a good thing I stayed in Cincinnati for four years -- It took me that long to learn how to spell it."

dabvu2498
12-18-2006, 01:52 PM
"It's a good thing I stayed in Cincinnati for four years -- It took me that long to learn how to spell it."

"It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word!"

westofyou
12-18-2006, 01:55 PM
"It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word!"

"The oppositionality brought into being by colonialism appears in the clash between the written word and the spoken word."

dabvu2498
12-18-2006, 01:59 PM
"The oppositionality brought into being by colonialism appears in the clash between the written word and the spoken word."

I won't lie. Had to look that one up. In the process, I found:

"In both literature and politics, the drive towards identity centers around language."

bucksfan
12-18-2006, 02:00 PM
It goes both ways. Lots of people (myself included) don't care for having people talk badly about their alma mater, especially in the current case where there really isn't any basis to those claims. I stay pretty quiet about this stuff but I see a lot of anti-OSU sentiment as well that tends to go beyond just statements of facts. It's all fine, as we all have teams or schools we like and dislike. But don't expect people who are as fervent about their schools as many of you are about the Reds to just shut up and take it. I think OSU sports, like any other sporting topic, can be discussed in a civil manner. Both sides need to stop with the blanket statements and innuendos.

TeamCasey
12-18-2006, 02:00 PM
"My Grandmother is over eighty and still doesn't need glasses. Drinks right out of the bottle."
- Henny Youngman

Yeah, I'm sure that's unrelated. I just wanted to play too. ;)

Cyclone792
12-18-2006, 02:08 PM
As I stated earlier, the College of Columbus would have benefitted from an annual game with UC during the Huggins era. I mean, hell, that game would already be at least one big time non-conference game each season for both programs. It helps the non-conference SOS. It helps the RPI. Both are important factors for the NCAA selection committee.

The College of Columbus conveniently refused to do it until this season. Whatever. They have their reasons.

I like rivalry games, especially non-conference rivalry games. They're good for the programs involved and the sport altogether. The UC/OSU rivalry game likely would have been nationally televised every single season. In fact, during the years when OSU had some nice little runs, the UC/OSU game may have been one of the most highly touted non-conference games of the entire season in all of college basketball. It would have been the type of game the networks fight over for rights to televise it. Big money would have poured in. Viewing audiences would have been vast, and it would have been a major asset in recruiting for both programs. This is why I like rivalry games.

Seriously, for the OSU fans out there, why would you NOT want that type of rivalry game? Those types of games are a major benefit for both programs, which is exactly why UC wanted it in the first place.

Maybe it was a Big Ten thing, I don't know. I wouldn't put it past the Big Ten to not want to risk losing more often than not against a Conference USA team in a rivalry game. This is sort of why I get a nice chuckle every season when the ACC smokes the Big Ten in the ACC/Big Ten challenge.

This season sure is a great time to pick up that game against UC, however. UC moves into the Big East, but their program is depleted. Yet because UC's now in the Big East, they will play a ridiculously difficult schedule. UC won't be a very good team this season, but their RPI will reflect the difficult schedule, and as a result UC's RPI will actually be decent. That means the College of Columbus gets to slam a team from a power conference who will have a decent RPI. The game will actually go down as a "good win" for the Buckeyes, despite being an easy win everyone knew would happen.

Yep, that sure was convenient.

And why doesn't Matta want the game to happen annually? I don't know, perhaps OSU fans can help me out. Could it be that Matta knows what will likely happen? I'm sure he knows UC will rebound, that Cronin's likely to rebuild the program, and that the Bearcats will be solid again. Cronin's reported to be a good recruiter, and now he's in the Big East, arguably the best college basketball conference in the nation. He'll be able to snag some talent in the future; everybody knows this.

That easy win the College of Columbus nailed up this season won't last too long in the future, and any type of UC/OSU rivalry game would be competitive again very quickly. From OSU's point of view, maybe it's better to prevent that type of game from swinging UC's way in the future by avoiding it altogether. Honestly, none of that would really surprise me about the Buckeyes.

westofyou
12-18-2006, 02:08 PM
The Big O vs Jerry Lucas for all the marbles.

rdiersin
12-18-2006, 02:12 PM
Maybe it was a Big Ten thing, I don't know. I wouldn't put it past the Big Ten to not want to risk losing more often than not against a Conference USA team in a rivalry game. This is sort of why I get a nice chuckle every season when the ACC smokes the Big Ten in the ACC/Big Ten challenge.


I have my doubts about that considering UC and Purdue have played not that long ago in the Wooden Traditional, and I also recall UC playing IU and Michigan State, albeit awhile back. Didn't UC also play Illinois last year or the year before? (regular season, not in the tournament)

Roy Tucker
12-18-2006, 02:12 PM
I had a big ole fired-up response all ready to go and decided it was all stupid.

All I ask is for fans of all schools to display class, humility, and good sportsmanship. Both in winning and losing. If you play a game long enough (pick one), you'll encounter your fair share of each.

When you win, do so with grace and extend a hand of friendship and sportmanship. When you lose, admit defeat and try harder next time. Try to remember what it feels like on the way up and what it feels like on the way down in equal doses.

Jeez, I ought to write motivational posters.

Cyclone792
12-18-2006, 02:16 PM
I have my doubts about that considering UC and Purdue have played not that long ago in the Wooden Traditional, and I also recall UC playing IU and Michigan State, albeit awhile back. Didn't UC also play Illinois last year or the year before? (regular season, not in the tournament).

Oh, I know. I'm just throwing possibilities out in the air. I know UC played Illinois in the NCAA tournament, but I'm not sure if they played each other in the regular season. I know they've played Big Ten teams periodically during the regular season too, however, I'm not sure how many of those were scheduled games and how many were in some early season round robin tournaments where you have one or two unknown opponents. UC's big win over #1 Duke in the late 90s was in the Great Alaska Shootout, and I also know UC's win over LSU last season was in the Las Vegas Holiday Classic. Some of those Big Ten games may have been tournaments like that (those tournaments are the best way for mid-major teams to land those power conference schools on their schedule too).

My main question is exactly the same as your main question, which is why in the world does OSU not want to play UC annually. The game never happened before the Huggins era for who knows why. Then OSU backed out during the Huggins era. They did agree to play this season when UC's down, but now it seems like they're just going to back out of it again in the future.

Why does OSU not want this game to happen? That's my question.

If I'm an OSU fan, I'd want to play UC each season, just as I'd like to see UC play OSU each season since I'm a UC fan. It helps both programs.

bucksfan
12-18-2006, 02:21 PM
If I'm an OSU fan, I'd want to play UC each season, just as I'd like to see UC play OSU each season since I'm a UC fan. It helps both programs.

I agree. I think they should play every year. I really cannot fathom the reasons behind it, but my hunch is, after you get through all of the personal junk that may or may not be mentioned, there is no real good reason. It's just a basketball game. Just find a slot on your schedule and book it. It likely will not be the only game you have a chance of losing over the course of the season.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 02:22 PM
As I stated earlier, the College of Columbus would have benefitted from an annual game with UC during the Huggins era. I mean, hell, that game would already be at least one big time non-conference game each season for both programs. It helps the non-conference SOS. It helps the RPI. Both are important factors for the NCAA selection committee.

The College of Columbus conveniently refused to do it until this season. Whatever. They have their reasons.

I like rivalry games, especially non-conference rivalry games. They're good for the programs involved and the sport altogether. The UC/OSU rivalry game likely would have been nationally televised every single season. In fact, during the years when OSU had some nice little runs, the UC/OSU game may have been one of the most highly touted non-conference games of the entire season in all of college basketball. It would have been the type of game the networks fight over for rights to televise it. Big money would have poured in. Viewing audiences would have been vast, and it would have been a major asset in recruiting for both programs. This is why I like rivalry games.

Seriously, for the OSU fans out there, why would you NOT want that type of rivalry game? Those types of games are a major benefit for both programs, which is exactly why UC wanted it in the first place.

Maybe it was a Big Ten thing, I don't know. I wouldn't put it past the Big Ten to not want to risk losing more often than not against a Conference USA team in a rivalry game. This is sort of why I get a nice chuckle every season when the ACC smokes the Big Ten in the ACC/Big Ten challenge.

This season sure is a great time to pick up that game against UC, however. UC moves into the Big East, but their program is depleted. Yet because UC's now in the Big East, they will play a ridiculously difficult schedule. UC won't be a very good team this season, but their RPI will reflect the difficult schedule, and as a result UC's RPI will actually be decent. That means the College of Columbus gets to slam a team from a power conference who will have a decent RPI. The game will actually go down as a "good win" for the Buckeyes, despite being an easy win everyone knew would happen.

Yep, that sure was convenient.

And why doesn't Matta want the game to happen annually? I don't know, perhaps OSU fans can help me out. Could it be that Matta knows what will likely happen? I'm sure he knows UC will rebound, that Cronin's likely to rebuild the program, and that the Bearcats will be solid again. Cronin's reported to be a good recruiter, and now he's in the Big East, arguably the best college basketball conference in the nation. He'll be able to snag some talent in the future; everybody knows this.

That easy win the College of Columbus nailed up this season won't last too long in the future, and any type of UC/OSU rivalry game would be competitive again very quickly. From OSU's point of view, maybe it's better to prevent that type of game from swinging UC's way in the future by avoiding it altogether. Honestly, none of that would really surprise me about the Buckeyes.

The only reason they wanted to play this year was because it was in Indy (for Oden and Conley). It could have been anyone. It just happened to be UC.

I have no idea why they don't make it an annual thing. I wish I new the real reason, but it doesn't change the fact that they haven't. What's done is done. None of us know the real reason, but it seems obvious that it bothers UC fans more than OSU fans.

I have a theory. OSU would never do anything, even if it did hurt thenmselves -RPI) to help UC under Huggins. It goes back to the Damon Flint -Damon's/gym bag scandal. It was pretty much accepted that it was Huggins that ratted out Ayers and Ohio State. Whether right or wrong, Ohio State held hard feelings against UC and Huggins. That's maybe also why Huggins was led on somewhat, but never was really given the opportunity to be a candidate for the OSU job (a job he probably would have taken) after O'Brien was canned.

There is bad blood there. Obviously now, there appears to be bad blood with UC towards OSU.

Can't we all just get along? :laugh:

Heath
12-18-2006, 02:23 PM
Oh, I know. I'm just throwing possibilities out in the air.

My main question is exactly the same as your main question, which is why in the world does OSU not want to play UC annually. The game never happened before the Huggins era for who knows why. Then OSU backed out during the Huggins era. They did agree to play this season when UC's down, but now it seems like they're just going to back out of it again in the future.

Why does OSU not want this game to happen? That's my question.

If I'm an OSU fan, I'd want to play UC each season, just as I'd like to see UC play OSU each season since I'm a UC fan. It helps both programs.

I'm an Ohio State fan and they used to play Dayton some. I like UD as well, and nothing would be cooler than a UD/OSU game. Also, with all the other schools in Ohio, why not a Miami/OSU game or Ohio/OSU, or Bowling Green/OSU or Toledo/OSU or Akron/OSU or Xavier/OSU, etc. etc.

Whatever's the past is the past. IMO, it will take Gene Smith to do what Andy Geiger did to the football program. Make the basketball program play 2-3 in-state schools a year on a rotational basis.

rdiersin
12-18-2006, 02:24 PM
Oh, I know. I'm just throwing possibilities out in the air.

My main question is exactly the same as your main question, which is why in the world does OSU not want to play UC annually. The game never happened before the Huggins era for who knows why. Then OSU backed out during the Huggins era. They did agree to play this season when UC's down, but now it seems like they're just going to back out of it again in the future.

Why does OSU not want this game to happen? That's my question.

If I'm an OSU fan, I'd want to play UC each season, just as I'd like to see UC play OSU each season since I'm a UC fan. It helps both programs.

Oh, I understand. I was just trying to mention that I don't think its the Big Ten (being a Purdue grad makes one do that sort of thing ;)). I actually can understand why they didn't play before Huggins got there, considering the shape of UC basketball, but now (and in the 90s) I can't see it. Its a good non conference game. It helps both their schedules. Brings in money. Gets both schools more national exposure (which is always nice when recruiting comes less and less from Ohio).

dabvu2498
12-18-2006, 02:32 PM
I'm an Ohio State fan and they used to play Dayton some. I like UD as well, and nothing would be cooler than a UD/OSU game. Also, with all the other schools in Ohio, why not a Miami/OSU game or Ohio/OSU, or Bowling Green/OSU or Toledo/OSU or Akron/OSU or Xavier/OSU, etc. etc.

Whatever's the past is the past. IMO, it will take Gene Smith to do what Andy Geiger did to the football program. Make the basketball program play 2-3 in-state schools a year on a rotational basis.

Quick scan of OSU's all-time results show that they haven't played an in-state school since Toledo in 1999-2000.

They did also play Youngstown St. this year.

max venable
12-18-2006, 02:39 PM
While that may be and probably is true in some cases, the arrogance displayed by OSU fans these days is just as appalling and nauseating, if not moreso.

There just doesn't seem to be any civil way of talking about them anymore, at least that I've seen on this board.

Unfortunately, passion for your team is mistaken as "arrogance" by those who are fans of teams that are not quite as good. I haven't seen a legitmately arrogant post by an OSU fan on this thread but all the UC fans seem to think all of our posts are just dripping with it. It's passion...but it's misconstrued as arrogance when your team happens to be really good.

I've been accused of being "over the top" in support of the Buckeyes but when I've asked for examples, nobody has any. Other teams' fans read stuff into posts, assume things, etc. It's normal. I probably do the same thing. I'm not condemning...just trying to make a point.

LoganBuck
12-18-2006, 02:40 PM
I'm an Ohio State fan and they used to play Dayton some. I like UD as well, and nothing would be cooler than a UD/OSU game. Also, with all the other schools in Ohio, why not a Miami/OSU game or Ohio/OSU, or Bowling Green/OSU or Toledo/OSU or Akron/OSU or Xavier/OSU, etc. etc.

Whatever's the past is the past. IMO, it will take Gene Smith to do what Andy Geiger did to the football program. Make the basketball program play 2-3 in-state schools a year on a rotational basis.

The governor and the legislature had alot to do with that in football. Playing Ohio State guarantees a massive paycheck for instate schools. Last I heard instate schools got over $500,000 to play in the horseshoe. Those schools can't make that on any of their own homegames.

Basketball doesn't matter as much, from a financial standpoint. UC, X, UD, and OSU are already on pretty much equal footing for attendance. I would love to see some sort of Ohio Classic Tourney, involving those schools over Thanksgiving weekend, play it at around Ohio, at places like the Gund, or US Bank Arena, or Nationwide Arena. Have a championship game, and a consolation game. Sorry to all fans of MAC schools.

Heath
12-18-2006, 02:41 PM
I also think the most OSU fans feel threatened on this board, because most of Cincinnati is indifferent when it comes to OSU. There's UC, Xavier, UK, Indiana, Miami, etc. that Cincinnati covers. While Dayton Flyers basketball is big, really most of Dayton follows OSU.

So, when it comes to this board, which is a "Cincinnati" board, I don't think that some of the people recognize that Cincinnati is more of a "hodge-podge" of college fandom. However, I don't think that qualifies some of the insults that are getting tossed around here. That, I don't have a reason for.

Heath
12-18-2006, 02:47 PM
The governor and the legislature had alot to do with that in football. Playing Ohio State guarantees a massive paycheck for instate schools. Last I heard instate schools got over $500,000 to play in the horseshoe. Those schools can't make that on any of their own homegames.

Basketball doesn't matter as much, from a financial standpoint. UC, X, UD, and OSU are already on pretty much equal footing for attendance. I would love to see some sort of Ohio Classic Tourney, involving those schools over Thanksgiving weekend, play it at around Ohio, at places like the Gund, or US Bank Arena, or Nationwide Arena. Have a championship game, and a consolation game. Sorry to all fans of MAC schools.

True, but a Wright State, Cleveland State, Akron, Miami, Kent, Y-State, etc would probably make a little money from traveling to OSU. In Dayton, there are more things to complain about, especially when UD won't play Wright State.

:D

Danny Serafini
12-18-2006, 03:00 PM
I have a theory. OSU would never do anything, even if it did hurt thenmselves -RPI) to help UC under Huggins. It goes back to the Damon Flint gym scandal. It was pretty much accepted that it was Huggins that ratted out Ayers and Ohio State. Whether right or wrong, Ohio State held hard feelings against UC and Huggins. That's maybe also why Huggins was led on somewhat, but never was really given the opportunity to be a candidate for the OSU job (a job he probably would have taken) after O'Brien was canned.

I can't believe it took 99 posts for someone to mention Damon Flint. There's your answer to why OSU wouldn't have anything to do with UC during the past 15 years. That created a LOT of animosity from Ohio State.

Chip R
12-18-2006, 03:01 PM
Classy thread.... classy.


You stay classy, RedsZone. :thumbup:

http://www.cinemovies.fr/images/data/films/Pfilm2286879908782.jpg

Cyclone792
12-18-2006, 03:15 PM
I have a theory. OSU would never do anything, even if it did hurt thenmselves -RPI) to help UC under Huggins. It goes back to the Damon Flint -Damon's/gym bag scandal. It was pretty much accepted that it was Huggins that ratted out Ayers and Ohio State. Whether right or wrong, Ohio State held hard feelings against UC and Huggins. That's maybe also why Huggins was led on somewhat, but never was really given the opportunity to be a candidate for the OSU job (a job he probably would have taken) after O'Brien was canned.

It was easy to buy that theory when Huggins was around. So long as Huggins remained, the scapegoat remained for no matchup to ever occur.

But Huggins is gone now, which means if Bob Huggins was the reason Ohio State held hard feelings against UC, then that main reason no longer exists. Cronin's running the show, and he's already shown interest in picking up OSU as a rivalry type game. If OSU continues to back out, what's the new excuse going to be?

See, my main problem with OSU is actually in the future moreso than the past. If they would simply agree to line up a fair annual matchup, then it's much easier to forget about the past and move on to enjoy what fans have wanted all along. The past still gets mentioned, however, because it seems that the past still has an effect on the future possibility of an annual matchup, despite the fact that OSU's scapegoat for avoiding UC during the Huggins era is gone.

LoganBuck
12-18-2006, 03:21 PM
It was easy to buy that theory when Huggins was around. So long as Huggins remained, the scapegoat remained for no matchup to ever occur.

But Huggins is gone now, which means if Bob Huggins was the reason Ohio State held hard feelings against UC, then that main reason no longer exists. Cronin's running the show, and he's already shown interest in picking up OSU as a rivalry type game. If OSU continues to back out, what's the new excuse going to be?

See, my main problem with OSU is actually in the future moreso than the past. If they would simply agree to line up a fair annual matchup, then it's much easier to forget about the past and move on to enjoy what fans have wanted all along. The past still gets mentioned, however, because it seems that the past still has an effect on the future possibility of an annual matchup, despite the fact that OSU's scapegoat for avoiding UC during the Huggins era is gone.

Cronin is believed to be the person that brought the Flint issue to Huggins attention, and suddenly he went from being a JV coach at Flint's high school to Huggins staff.

I love UC basketball. I have followed them more closely than Ohio State's BBall team for years. I would love to see them play every year.

Cyclone792
12-18-2006, 03:43 PM
Cronin is believed to be the person that brought the Flint issue to Huggins attention, and suddenly he went from being a JV coach at Flint's high school to Huggins staff.

I love UC basketball. I have followed them more closely than Ohio State's BBall team for years. I would love to see them play every year.

Something still doesn't add up.

Ohio State balked before the Flint incident. As soon as Huggins was hired he wanted to play the Buckeyes, and OSU balked. Then the Flint incident occurs, and it becomes a convenient scapegoat.

Mick Cronin was barely out of high school himself during the Flint incident, and he was actually still in college working as a JV coach to help put himself through school. After graduating in 1996, several years after the Flint incident, Huggins hired him as a video coordinator. Cronin was on that job for a year before Huggins promoted him as an assistant. Then after leaving UC, Cronin has some nice success at Murray State. Sounds to me that Cronin is more of a guy who started way down low and has done a nice job working his way to the top.

Still, like you, I want them to play every season, but right now the fact is one school wants to do this while the other does not. And since the timeline of OSU not wanting to play UC annually has stretched so far and still continues, it becomes harder and harder to believe that one event is the real reason behind it all.

dabvu2498
12-18-2006, 03:47 PM
Still, to take the reasons for not playing UC back even further:


That's a loaded question says Lee Caryer, author of The Golden Age of Ohio State Basketball, a book devoted to the Buckeye basketball program from 1960-1971.

"As far as Ohio State was concerned, they didn't think that Cincinnati had the same recruiting rules that Ohio State did (in the early 1960's)," Caryer said. "Cincinnati had a co-op program. They (Ohio State) kind of thought the co-op program allowed people in that didn't belong in college. They also kind of thought the recruiting scales were a bit tipped (in Cincinnati's favor). They were also mad about losing the two games to Cincinnati."



http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/601232.html

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 04:04 PM
It was easy to buy that theory when Huggins was around. So long as Huggins remained, the scapegoat remained for no matchup to ever occur.

But Huggins is gone now, which means if Bob Huggins was the reason Ohio State held hard feelings against UC, then that main reason no longer exists. Cronin's running the show, and he's already shown interest in picking up OSU as a rivalry type game. If OSU continues to back out, what's the new excuse going to be?

See, my main problem with OSU is actually in the future moreso than the past. If they would simply agree to line up a fair annual matchup, then it's much easier to forget about the past and move on to enjoy what fans have wanted all along. The past still gets mentioned, however, because it seems that the past still has an effect on the future possibility of an annual matchup, despite the fact that OSU's scapegoat for avoiding UC during the Huggins era is gone.



I'm not making any excuses. Huggins has been out for a little over a year and OSU and UC have played. Of course, like I said, it could have been anyone this past Saturday. Huggins being gone probably made no difference. The fact that the game was in Indy made all the difference (for Oden and Conley).

I agree, it would be nice to have a rivalry. I would love it. Why is everyone assuming that it can't still happen or at least maybe happen every other year?

I don't think the thought of losing to UC scares OSU that they need some weak excuse. Even though it wouldn't happen, so what if UC were to beat the heck out of Ohio State every year. Would it really effect recruiting that much? UC would still get their talent and OSU would still get their's. OSU knows that Cincy isn't a Buckeye town anyway. Heck, Cleveland is more of a Buckeye town. I love Cincy. I have grown up loving that town for the Reds (mainly) and Bengals, but the perception, here in Columbus, is that Cincinnati is fine with breaking away from the rest of the state. There doesn't seem to be any loyalty from Cincinnati to the rest of the state. Columbus has always supported Cincinnati (professional) sports. Look at our papers. We cover the Reds and Bengals as if they were in our own city. We travel down there in droves to support the Reds and Bengals. They are our teams as well, but the perception here is that Cincinnati has never fully imbraced Ohio State, which is understandable (to a degree), especially when you consider that Cincy has it's own colleges and UK. It's just quite obvious when you compare Cincinnati and Cleveland, that Ohio State, especially the football program, is all but ignored by the local media in Cincinnati.

Regarding in-state recruiting, OSU has landed Jamar Butler and Matt Sylvester in recent years against UC and they did that when UC was strong and OSU was weak. It's not like we battle for recruits that hard every year. And current recruit, Yancy Gates is out of the picture for OSU from what I last heard. The last recruit we really battled for was Damon Flint and we saw how that turned out. Huggy ratted out his peer for taking a kid to a restaurant 1/2 miles off campus and giving the kid a duffel bag. He blew the whistle on Ayers and OSU and the NCAA had to make a move since it was one coach and university crying foul against another coach and university.

There is no reason to not play UC every year other than maybe OSU loves it that it's getting under their skin. That could be it. There still may be bad blood. For those that don't remember, that whole Damon Flint fiasco was the first domino in a series that nearly led to the downfall of our program and it came at a time when UC was making a resurgence nationally.

And what does OSU get for playing? Maybe they see it as a lose-lose. Why help UC? And when OSU wins, there is nothing but excuses and bad blood anyway. There is no respect. No "great game, you guys are good." It's "you are lucky and corrupt and probably violating NCAA rules".

How do you win?

Hate them all you want, because I don't think they really care if they are winning over fans in the tri-state.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 04:10 PM
Cronin is believed to be the person that brought the Flint issue to Huggins attention, and suddenly he went from being a JV coach at Flint's high school to Huggins staff.

I love UC basketball. I have followed them more closely than Ohio State's BBall team for years. I would love to see them play every year.

Well, there you have it. Wow. I had not put those pieces together.

Well, after reading Cronin's quotes in the paper and now this, I feel perfectly fine with disliking him.

paintmered
12-18-2006, 04:21 PM
Still, to take the reasons for not playing UC back even further:



http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/601232.html

I don't really understand what the co-op program has to do with anything. Co-op is tied to particular colleges at UC, not the university itself. So unless a basketball player is in engineering, design, architecture or business school (Meeker was in business), it's an invalid point.

Cyclone792
12-18-2006, 04:28 PM
Well, there you have it. Wow. I had not put those pieces together.

Well, after reading Cronin's quotes in the paper and now this, I feel perfectly fine with disliking him.

The funny thing is it was Ohio State who committed the NCAA violations with Damon Flint, not Bob Huggins or Mick Cronin. Ohio State was in the wrong, not Bob Huggins. Ohio State was in the wrong, not Mick Cronin.

That's the piece of the puzzle that makes seeing OSU fans disliking UC/Huggins/Cronin bizarre to me. It's almost like there's anomosity for getting caught for violating NCAA rules, which really doesn't make any sense to me.

Then again, there are Reds fans who despise MLB because they caught Pete Rose ... so maybe it does make sense.

dabvu2498
12-18-2006, 04:31 PM
I don't really understand what the co-op program has to do with anything. Co-op is tied to particular colleges at UC, not the university itself. So unless a basketball player is in engineering, design, architecture or business school (Meeker was in business), it's an invalid point.

That was the 1960s the article was referring to. Not sure how the co-op programs worked back then, but OSU appearantly thought it was enough of an advantage to not schedule UC.

Heath
12-18-2006, 04:37 PM
That was the 1960s the article was referring to. Not sure how the co-op programs worked back then, but OSU appearantly thought it was enough of an advantage to not schedule UC.

IIRC, co-op programs in the '60's were more "vocational" studies than today's co-op programs. Ohio State was more of the traditional college, while UC gave credits for people who worked a trade and didn't necessarily go to "traditional class".

A co-op program in the '60's would have "lower standards" for admission, henceforth, they would get more to choose for recruits.

paintmered
12-18-2006, 04:40 PM
That was the 1960s the article was referring to. Not sure how the co-op programs worked back then, but OSU appearantly thought it was enough of an advantage to not schedule UC.

Understood. But co-op has been highly expanded since that time. It may have just been the college of engineering that was doing co-op thing in the 60's.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 04:41 PM
The funny thing is it was Ohio State who committed the NCAA violations with Damon Flint, not Bob Huggins or Mick Cronin. Ohio State was in the wrong, not Bob Huggins. Ohio State was in the wrong, not Mick Cronin.

That's the piece of the puzzle that makes seeing OSU fans disliking UC/Huggins/Cronin bizarre to me. It's almost like there's anomosity for getting caught for violating NCAA rules, which really doesn't make any sense to me.

Then again, there are Reds fans who despise MLB because they caught Pete Rose ... so maybe it does make sense.

In the wrong? Do you know the whole story?

They took Flint to a restaurant appropriately named Damon's on Olentangy River road. 1/2 mile off campus. The OSU coaches did not even realize that it was considered off-campus as it's is right on the border and one of the NCAA rules is that you cannot take a recruit anywhere off-campus. It's one of those rules the NCAA has that anyone at anytime could accidentally violate.

Huggins and Co. discovered this (probably through Cronin's relation with Flint) and they ratted out OSU on this petty little rule. I'm sure coaches see and hear other coaches doing things far worse than this every day and shake it off. This was not an unfair recruiting practice to get Flint (an already OSU verbal) to come to OSU.

I'm sure Bobby Huggins has never broken one of those teeny tiny NCAA rules.

paintmered
12-18-2006, 04:43 PM
IIRC, co-op programs in the '60's were more "vocational" studies than today's co-op programs. Ohio State was more of the traditional college, while UC gave credits for people who worked a trade and didn't necessarily go to "traditional class".

A co-op program in the '60's would have "lower standards" for admission, henceforth, they would get more to choose for recruits.

I don't know about that. The co-op model used today at UC is similar to the one started in 1906. The only major thing that has changed is the scheduling. Originally students would work in industry for half of a day and go to school the other half.

Maybe I'm wrong and just regurgitating propaganda UC has fed me over the years. *shrug*

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled thread. This co-op thing really isn't important anyways.

Heath
12-18-2006, 04:53 PM
I don't know about that. The co-op model used today at UC is similar to the one started in 1906. The only major thing that has changed is the scheduling. Originally students would work in industry for half of a day and go to school the other half.

Maybe I'm wrong and just regurgitating propaganda UC has fed me over the years. *shrug*

And that's probably true for a co-op program now Paint.

What I am saying is that there were other vocations using UC for trade schooling using the co-op program. That's what some universities did in the '60's. Places like DeVry, ITT, and some community colleges weren't around or able to provided the trade programs they have today. They were considered UC students.

That's the point I was making for the purposes of this discussion. It wasn't a slam against the current co-op program at UC.

College admissions and offerings have changed over the last 40 years.

I've been trying to find out also an article about Texas Western and the 1966 Team that beat Kentucky. Obviously we know the main plot, but one of the sub-plots that was reported that Texas Western was a commuter school and that the school was known for its trade co-op programs more than it's 'traditional" college attendees. Supposively Rupp didn't like playing against a "junior college" as well.

dabvu2498
12-18-2006, 04:59 PM
In the wrong? Do you know the whole story?

They took Flint to a restaurant appropriately named Damon's on Olentangy River road. 1/2 mile off campus. The OSU coaches did not even realize that it was considered off-campus as it's is right on the border and one of the NCAA rules is that you cannot take a recruit anywhere off-campus. It's one of those rules the NCAA has that anyone at anytime could accidentally violate.


Some more of the story:


An investigation found that Ayers and two assistants entertained Flint and his high school coach at an off-campus restaurant during an unofficial visit in October 1991. One of the assistants, Paul Brazeau, subsequently gave Flint’s coach $60 to cover their expenses for the trip. Ohio State did not report the violations until questioned by the NCAA 16 months later.

http://www.1460thefan.com/default.php?story=dispatch/2006/12/15/20061215-F1-00.html

Cyclone792
12-18-2006, 05:07 PM
In the wrong? Do you know the whole story?

They took Flint to a restaurant appropriately named Damon's on Olentangy River road. 1/2 mile off campus. The OSU coaches did not even realize that it was considered off-campus as it's is right on the border and one of the NCAA rules is that you cannot take a recruit anywhere off-campus. It's one of those rules the NCAA has that anyone at anytime could accidentally violate.

Huggins and Co. discovered this (probably through Cronin's relation with Flint) and they ratted out OSU on this petty little rule. I'm sure coaches see and hear other coaches doing things far worse than this every day and shake it off. This was not an unfair recruiting practice to get Flint (an already OSU verbal) to come to OSU.

I'm sure Bobby Huggins has never broken one of those teeny tiny NCAA rules.

Petty or not, the point remains that Ohio State committed the violations. Whether it was by accident or not, it doesn't matter, they committed the violations. If the OSU coaches did not realize that a certain restaurant was not considered on-campus, then that's their problem, not anybody else's.

I could care less who notified the NCAA that OSU committed the violations. OSU was caught and penalized. Learn from it, and move on.

Interestingly enough, when Ohio State asked for 300 additional tickets to a 1992 NCAA Tournament game in Cincinnati, UC told them they could have the tickets if OSU agreed to play a home-and-home series with UC. OSU balked and refused. UC was caught and fined $25,000.

UC was caught and penalized. I don't care who notified the NCAA of that event - for all I know it was someone associated with OSU - but UC was caught and penalized. Good for them; they learned from it and moved on.

SunDeck
12-18-2006, 05:11 PM
History of UC's co-op program. (http://www.uc.edu/propractice/centennial/#)

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 05:15 PM
Petty or not, the point remains that Ohio State committed the violations. Whether it was by accident or not, it doesn't matter, they committed the violations. If the OSU coaches did not realize that a certain restaurant was not considered on-campus, then that's their problem, not anybody else's.

I could care less who notified the NCAA that OSU committed the violations. OSU was caught and penalized. Learn from it, and move on.

Interestingly enough, when Ohio State asked for 300 additional tickets to a 1992 NCAA Tournament game in Cincinnati, UC told them they could have the tickets if OSU agreed to play a home-and-home series with UC. OSU balked and refused. UC was caught and fined $25,000.

UC was caught and penalized. I don't care who notified the NCAA of that event - for all I know it was someone associated with OSU - but UC was caught and penalized. Good for them; they learned from it and moved on.


Two wrongs don't make a right.

Whether it was big or small, UC was petty in this case, as OSU was in the other.

With that said, if every little rule in the NCAA bible was enforced,there would be nobody left to play the games.

I think it's now obvious that there is some bad blood between the two programs and maybe OSU is being the one that is not forgiving. I'm not saying it's right, but you wanted reasons for no rivalry and I think we may have found a few.

Personally, I think this is the perfect reason for the team's to beat each other up every year.

Cyclone792
12-18-2006, 05:26 PM
Two wrongs don't make a right.

Whether it was big or small, UC was petty in this case, as OSU was in the other.

With that said, if every little rule in the NCAA bible was enforced,there would be nobody left to play the games.

I think it's now obvious that there is some bad blood between the two programs and maybe OSU is being the one that is not forgiving. I'm not saying it's right, but you wanted reasons for no rivalry and I think we may have found a few.

Personally, I think this is the perfect reason for the team's to beat each other up every year.

If UC reported OSU's violations to the NCAA, which nobody knows for certain if that really did happen, that's not violating an NCAA rule. I don't care if it's petty or not; UC did nothing wrong according to the NCAA.

Blaming one program because a different program committed an NCAA violation makes zero sense.

Redlegs23
12-18-2006, 05:39 PM
That's maybe also why Huggins was led on somewhat, but never was really given the opportunity to be a candidate for the OSU job (a job he probably would have taken) after O'Brien was canned.


No way would he have taken that job. He was raising his family in Cincy, and had said repeatedly that he wanted to stay here his entire career. He turned down multiple college job offers as well as NBA offers to stay at UC. He even turned down an offer from West Virginia where he grew up and the rest of his family lives. Not sure why you think he would've left UC, a program that was consistently in the top 25, to go to an OSU, a program where he'd be overshadowed by the football team.

Redlegs23
12-18-2006, 05:42 PM
I agree, it would be nice to have a rivalry. I would love it. Why is everyone assuming that it can't still happen or at least maybe happen every other year?


Because Thad said he has no interest in playing UC in the future.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-18-2006, 06:21 PM
Because Thad said he has no interest in playing UC in the future.

Link or quote?

Even so, Thad is not the AD.

SunDeck
12-18-2006, 06:49 PM
It's nice to think that there some evil lurking beneath but my guess is that OSU probably doesn't think it would help their team.
It has to be a difficult decision to commit to playing a non-conference team if you are a Big Ten team. They are already playing 15/16 or 16/17 of their last games against conference rivals. Prior to that, there are five tune up games, then the ACC/Big Ten gala, which is a conference commitment. Then most B-10 teams have a game against some (usually good) non-conference team sprinkled in there in the first third of the conference season. I suppose you could argue that UC could slip into that slot, but my guess is that it would be hard for OSU and UC to agree on a date with such a rigid window.

Now, UC and Kentucky? That was another matter, entirely.

Heath
12-18-2006, 07:56 PM
Now, UC and Kentucky? That was another matter, entirely.


I used to watch them play football. They played a few games at Riverfront.

SunDeck
12-18-2006, 07:58 PM
I used to watch them play football. They played a few games at Riverfront.
But that would'a stopped the minute UC took the ball and hid in the stands with it like they did on the court.

Caveat Emperor
12-19-2006, 12:09 AM
With that said, if every little rule in the NCAA bible was enforced,there would be nobody left to play the games.

I, for one, would enjoy college athletics a lot more if every "little rule" in the NCAA bible was enforced more strictly.

Cedric
12-19-2006, 01:13 AM
Complaining about cheating and NCAA rules isn't new. It's a popular thing for cynical people to do.

Of course there are going to be rogue programs and a few mistakes done by schools. Is there a Blue chip mentality at most major Universities? Maybe. Does anyone know enough to make those accusations though?

It's very easy to accuse and not have anything to back it up. It's much harder to actually prove it and not just seem like a cynical person.

GAC
12-19-2006, 09:39 AM
And some of the NCAA rules are also like "straining at a gnat".

Redlegs23
12-19-2006, 04:18 PM
Link or quote?

Even so, Thad is not the AD.


I didn't look too hard but I can't find the quote right now. This is all I found from the Cincinnati Post.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061216/SPT0201/612160392/1035/SPT

Whomever the Buckeyes recruit now, Cronin said Thursday he'd like to play Ohio State annually. He backed off those comments a little Friday after Matta said he had no interest in making this game a yearly occurrence, but Cronin sounded convinced when he talked about it Thursday.

From the way this sounds maybe Thad wasn't ruling out future games, just annual games. Let's hope that's the case for the fans if nothing else.