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BEETTLEBUG
12-19-2006, 12:42 PM
Would you trade EE for Ervin Santana or Angels ? Then we could sign A. Boone or David Bell to play third or sign both cause they would be cheaper that spending for other pitchers on market.

asboog
12-19-2006, 01:12 PM
I would seriously consider it but i don't think LAA are going to do that with out getting some pitching in return. So I don't see it happening

Heath
12-19-2006, 01:13 PM
Oh where I have I seen this thread before..........

Oh wait, nevermind, it was an ORG thread.

Carry on.

BEETTLEBUG
12-19-2006, 01:40 PM
Sorry I can't post on ORG so I moved it over to here.

Redsnake
12-19-2006, 01:48 PM
Doesn't LAA have a bunch of 3rd base options already? McPherson, Brandon Woods(SS) and another one(Aybar??). O.Cabrera has a long term contract and plays SS, Woods is major league ready and needs a position, Glaus was let go for McPherson, etc.
As a fan I would hate to lose a young EE and have the offense lose some fire power. Thankfully the Angels have other options. But I would like E.Santana in a Reds uniform as well as any other young pitcher of his caliber.

Spitball
12-19-2006, 03:38 PM
Doesn't LAA have a bunch of 3rd base options already? McPherson, Brandon Woods(SS) and another one(Aybar??). O.Cabrera has a long term contract and plays SS, Woods is major league ready and needs a position, Glaus was let go for McPherson, etc.
As a fan I would hate to lose a young EE and have the offense lose some fire power. Thankfully the Angels have other options. But I would like E.Santana in a Reds uniform as well as any other young pitcher of his caliber.

Right now, the Angels appear set to go with Figgins or Aybar at third but surely would prefer more power at the position. Wood is not considered major league ready.

REDblooded
12-19-2006, 10:01 PM
No way would I do that. Giving up your best young hitter for a shaky pitcher? I'd pass. The Reds simply don't have enough hitting as is, and to trade youth away without it being a move that would make you an immediate contender just doesn't make sense.

Spitball
12-20-2006, 12:32 AM
No way would I do that. Giving up your best young hitter for a shaky pitcher? I'd pass. The Reds simply don't have enough hitting as is, and to trade youth away without it being a move that would make you an immediate contender just doesn't make sense.

How is a 16 game winner with a 1.23 WHIP shaky? In today's market, how does trading a hitter for a pitcher not make sense? How are the Reds better with the Reds pitching Milton, Lohse, and Elizardo three out of five games with EE at third better than pitching Harang, Arroyo, and Santana three out of five games with Aaron Boone at third base? The Reds need to improve their pitching, or they are destine to be no better than a team destined to have little chance to win in three fifths of their games.

What other alternative do the Reds have to improve their pitching and their chances of winning 3/5 of their games?

REDblooded
12-20-2006, 08:33 AM
How is a 16 game winner with a 1.23 WHIP shaky? In today's market, how does trading a hitter for a pitcher not make sense? How are the Reds better with the Reds pitching Milton, Lohse, and Elizardo three out of five games with EE at third better than pitching Harang, Arroyo, and Santana three out of five games with Aaron Boone at third base? The Reds need to improve their pitching, or they are destine to be no better than a team destined to have little chance to win in three fifths of their games.

What other alternative do the Reds have to improve their pitching and their chances of winning 3/5 of their games?

How was he shaky? Look at his splits.
Santana went 10-2 at home, 3.02 ERA, 1.10 WHIP....... on the road? How about 6-6, 5.95 ERA, 1.40 WHIP. Also, look at his post all-star numbers of 6-5, 4.68 ERA, and 1.30 WHIP. What do you think he'd do in GABP?

Now, look at Edwin. That kid is a future star, and he's not far from it. His numbers compare very favorably to David Wrights. He has a great glove, albeit an erratic arm. Also, this team has very little offense right now. You're gonna get rid of an excellent, cheap bat? No thanks, I'll just hold my breath, and wait for Homer. I think Elizardo should rebound nicely this year, and Milton can be good at times. This staff, while not great, isn't terrible, and they aren't an Ervin Santana away from winning the WS.

Spitball
12-20-2006, 11:23 AM
I still don't buy the shaky part. Compared with the Reds' 3,4, and 5 starters, he looks pretty good. His second half WHIP was almost as good as Harang's WHIP for the year, and that was against American League batting orders.

I like Edwin Encarnacion. I think he has a great future, but to get a valuable component to a winning team, the Reds are going to have to give up something of value. Good third basemen are easier to develop, trade for, or sign than good starting pitchers. Many also used the same arguments when the Pena for Arroyo trade was made.

With Santana in the rotation, about 100 games would be started by pitchers who averaged 15 wins last season. Without Santana, the Reds will start three starters in nearly 100 games who have little reason to be in a big league rotation.

REDblooded
12-20-2006, 06:15 PM
one big question on Santana. In todays pitching market, why would a team be willing to give up a young, supposedly outstanding pitcher? He's been the guy they've consistently shopped. Why?

Spitball
12-21-2006, 01:18 AM
one big question on Santana. In todays pitching market, why would a team be willing to give up a young, supposedly outstanding pitcher?

That is a good question, and I believe it is because teams like the Angels are not in the same boat as most teams. They already have Lackey, Weaver, and they have the resources to sign a Colon and Escobar. They don't understand our appreciation for a Santana.


He's been the guy they've consistently shopped. Why?

What? So teams have suddenly figured out how to judge major legue starters? How do you explain Jose Rijo shopped by the Yankees and A's? Curt Schilling by the Red Sox, Orioles, and Astros? Pedro by the Dodgers? Scott Kazmir??? Jeremy Bonderman??? Dontrelle Willis???

Being shopped is not a red flag for a starting pitcher. It is a window of opportunity.