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View Full Version : Music question: Should the sins of the children be visited upon the parents?



M2
12-20-2006, 01:37 PM
I was just giving this some thought and I figured I'd toss it out there for general public consumption.

For instance, Led Zeppelin pretty much birthed arena rock. Is it their fault that within a decade corporate rock (with poster children like Styx) had arisen?

I go back and forth on it. I'd generally say no except Zep made and released "Song Remains the Same," which pretty much canonized crappy arena rock excess.

Other difficult musical parent/child relationships that spring to mind include:

In the late 1970s, Judas Priest decided to clad themselves in leather (because Rob Halford was into the gay biker look) and unleashed guitar-driven, up tempo heavy metal. Are they responsible for the hair metal that followed, most disagreeably in the form of Kip Winger?

How responsible is Husker Du for emo and the many sins created in that name? Do later purveyors like Superchunk on "Here's Where the Strings Come In" (I will be the steward of your southern lands, if you'd only take my, take my shaking hands) bear more responsibility? But even then could they have known how that would enable whiny teenagers?

Can we lump snot punk bands like Good Charlotte and Simple Plan onto the shoulders of the Circle Jerks?

Is Garth Brooks ultimately responsible for the horrors of modern country pop?

I don't pretend to have the answers to these questions. I'm curious to hear what others think and what other originals have spawned dastardly children.

pedro
12-20-2006, 01:39 PM
Don't forget all teh crap that can be lain at the feet of the Grateful Dead.

Other than that I generally blame Led Zeppelin for everything ;)

M2
12-20-2006, 01:50 PM
Don't forget all teh crap that can be lain at the feet of the Grateful Dead.

I tend to view the Grateful Dead as an original sin. If my children ever want to torment me all they need to do is become jam band or country music fans.

registerthis
12-20-2006, 01:55 PM
I don't really blame the forfathers of any genre for the mountain of crap that generally gets released in their wake. There's a lot of awful prog that can trace its roots back to Pink Floyd, but i don't think Pink Floyd can necessarily be blamed for that. Ditto Zeppelin, or Judas Priest. And how much cheesy goth music could be pinned on the Cure or Joy Division?

I loathe bands when they artifically change their sound to fit with what's popular--particularly when they're not very adept at it. (I'm looking at you, Bono.) But it's hard for me to fault a band simply for blazing a trail.

registerthis
12-20-2006, 01:55 PM
I tend to view the Grateful Dead as an original sin. If my children ever want to torment me all they need to do is become jam band or country music fans.

Plus, the Grateful Dead spawned Phish.

<shiver>

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 01:56 PM
Plus, the Grateful Dead spawned Phish.

<shiver>

:barf: :barf: :barf: :barf:

Falls City Beer
12-20-2006, 02:04 PM
I tend to view the Grateful Dead as an original sin. If my children ever want to torment me all they need to do is become jam band or country music fans.

I'd rather a donkey violate my ear than the Grateful Dead.

Falls City Beer
12-20-2006, 02:11 PM
I'd chalk up the whiny teenager sound to a massive swath of music: folk, punk, the Cure, Bauhaus, Ride, MBV, J & M Chain (by extension all the shoegazing goofs), Joy Division.

Only arena rock and music written by black artists can be exempted from that scourge.

Though I have to say, many of the emo predecessors and their spawn I like quite a bit--unabashedly. Others I detest. It's just hard to say.

pedro
12-20-2006, 02:11 PM
Personally I like the Dead and Phish, but I can understand people not liking either of them. It's an acquired taste. One generally acquired by participating in certain illicit activities.

Now, the legion of hippy/jam bands that exist today? That stuff drives me nuts.

Oh, and I like Country music too. At least Willie, Johnny, Merle, Waylon, George & Lorretta.

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 02:12 PM
Plus, the Grateful Dead spawned Phish.

<shiver>

To actually answer the question that M2 brought up, I think this ends the conversation. I think this alone is proof that you can't blame the original band for what follows, or "inspires" future bands.

pedro
12-20-2006, 02:14 PM
To actually answer the question that M2 brought up, I think this ends the conversation. I think this alone is proof that you can't blame the original band for what follows, or "inspires" future bands.

All I know is I'm blaming someone for The String Cheese Incident. Those idiots aren't original enough to cause as much pain to my ears as they have.

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 02:15 PM
All I know is I'm blaming someone for The String Cheese Incident. Those idiots aren't original enough to cause as much pain to my ears as they have.

That'd be Led Zeppelin's fault, or Phish's, take your pick. ;)

pedro
12-20-2006, 02:20 PM
That'd be Led Zeppelin's fault. ;)

As much as I'd like to blame Led Zeppelin it's hard to blame them for a band like string cheese who has no bottom and doesn't play any bar chords EVER.

Roy Tucker
12-20-2006, 02:31 PM
It's simple.

If you like the music of the parent band, then you can dismiss any follow-on dreck as pale or misguided imitation. That they really didn't *get* what the parent was doing.

If you don't like the parent band, then it's open season to pile on them and blame them for each and every band that spawned from their ill-conceived musical dronings.

And actually, I sat here and tried to trace back rock, country, pop, etc. bands back to their roots and it all got pretty complicated. Like Led Zep came from the Yardbirds from Alexis Korner from early British blues from Muddy Waters, et al from Delta blues from slave field hollers from Africa from ??? so I just don't know.

M2
12-20-2006, 02:33 PM
To actually answer the question that M2 brought up, I think this ends the conversation. I think this alone is proof that you can't blame the original band for what follows, or "inspires" future bands.

It seems to me the original always plants seeds for future suckitude. Mind you, aimless noodling is more than a seed, it's a full-blown forest of suckitude.

Anyway, the originals almost always turn into their own tribute bands at some point and provide an excellent blueprint on how undermine the foundation of what they've built.

vaticanplum
12-20-2006, 02:37 PM
I'd rather a donkey violate my ear than the Grateful Dead.

You know, I used to feel this way, but then a donkey...

No, really, I used to feel that way, but I've been using Pandora lately and they've thrown a couple of Dead songs at me that I've found palatable. anything that runs over three minutes gets canned, though.

And I like the shoegazers. heck, I like a lot of derivative stuff. I worship the Strokes, because what they do what they do so well (and what they do, to me, has always been perfect pop, pure and simple). If it's good, it's good, and a lot of that to me comes just from the quality of songwriting even if it's inspired by others. Some original stuff is awful. Case in point: the Fiery Furnaces. Burns my ears. But a lot of bands you mention -- String Cheese Incident, Simple Plan, Styx -- they're not bad because they're based on another. They're bad because they're just not very good. Their songs blow.

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 02:38 PM
It seems to me the original always plants seeds for future suckitude. Mind you, aimless noodling is more than a seed, it's a full-blown forest of suckitude.

Anyway, the originals almost always turn into their own tribute bands at some point and provide an excellent blueprint on how undermine the foundation of what they've built.


I'd like to kick every member of the New Kids on the Block in the nuts and give mad props to Grandmaster Flash and the Sugar Hill Gang.

dabvu2498
12-20-2006, 02:39 PM
I'd like to kick every member of the New Kids on the Block in the nuts and give mad props to Grandmaster Flash and the Sugar Hill Gang.

Also remember that it's a good day because there's no smog, no barking from the dog, and moms cooked the breakfast with no hog.

Falls City Beer
12-20-2006, 02:40 PM
You know, I used to feel this way, but then a donkey...

No, really, I used to feel that way, but I've been using Pandora lately and they've thrown a couple of Dead songs at me that I've found palatable. anything that runs over three minutes gets canned, though.

And I like the shoegazers. heck, I like a lot of derivative stuff. I worship the Strokes, because what they do what they do so well (and what they do, to me, has always been perfect pop, pure and simple). If it's good, it's good, and a lot of that to me comes just from the quality of songwriting even if it's inspired by others. Some original stuff is awful. Case in point: the Fiery Furnaces. Burns my ears. But a lot of bands you mention -- String Cheese Incident, Simple Plan, Styx -- they're not bad because they're based on another. They're bad because they're just not very good. Their songs blow.

Oh I like many of the shoegazers, too. My point wasn't to slam them outright, but rather to say they're complicit in influencing contemporary acts of teen angst.

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 02:40 PM
They're bad because they're just not very good. Their songs blow.


I'm sailing away, set an open course for the virgin sea
I've got to be free, free to face the life that's ahead of me
On board, I'm the captain, so climb aboard
We'll search for tomorrow on every shore
And I'll try, oh Lord, I'll try to carry on.....

:explode: :explode: :explode: :explode:

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 02:41 PM
Also remember that it's a good day because there's no smog, no barking from the dog, and moms cooked the breakfast with no hog.

Word up.

vaticanplum
12-20-2006, 02:45 PM
Oh I like many of the shoegazers, too. My point wasn't to slam them outright, but rather to say they're complicit in influencing contemporary acts of teen angst.

What these young 'uns don't understand that teen angst is supposed to be ohmigod heartbreakingly mindnumblingly soulcrushingly cry-in-the-closet BEAUTIFUL. Ride's songs are filled with sunshine and light and may poles, they just happen to be singing about how no one in the world understands them.

Wow, I am 80.

Johnny Footstool
12-20-2006, 02:47 PM
Everything old is better than everything new. Nothing is as good as it used to be.

Remember when Nirvana was just a mopey, mumble-mouthed 3-chord band stealing AOR airtime from the likes of Warrant and Aerosmith?

Another example of quick-turnaround culture-churn: Green Day and Blink 182 used to be the snot-nosed punks ruining rock music. Now their old stuff seems like classic rock compared to Good Charlotte, etc.

RichRed
12-20-2006, 02:54 PM
I'm sailing away, set an open course for the virgin sea
I've got to be free, free to face the life that's ahead of me
On board, I'm the captain, so climb aboard
We'll search for tomorrow on every shore
And I'll try, oh Lord, I'll try to carry on.....

:explode: :explode: :explode: :explode:

It's impossible for me not to read those lyrics in Eric Cartman's voice now. Which is still preferable to Dennis DeYoung's.

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 02:58 PM
It's impossible for me not to read those lyrics in Eric Cartman's voice now. Which is still preferable to Dennis DeYoung's.

Me too, and I agree.

westofyou
12-20-2006, 02:59 PM
The Stones ripped off The Pretty Things

vaticanplum
12-20-2006, 03:01 PM
The Stones ripped off The Pretty Things

and the blues. Which is fine by me.

bucksfan
12-20-2006, 03:46 PM
Honestly I don't think so. Music, even the same music, can be appreciated by so many different people in so many different ways.

Artist B may have been greatly influenced by Artist A. Artist C may also list Artist A amongst their influences. However Artist B and C may have drastically different outputs as a result of those apparently similar interests. Some of it could be in the subtle differences of their interpretations of Artist A, some of it could be just in overall talent differences between the newer artists, and some could just be the other differing influences (internally or externalloy) that drive the artists. But for those reasons I lay no blame at the feet of Artist A as the newer artist still chooses their own doing. They could do something great with a crappy influence or vice versa.

Ltlabner
12-20-2006, 03:51 PM
Don't forget all teh crap that can be lain at the feet of the Grateful Dead.

Other than that I generally blame Led Zeppelin for everything ;)

Sorry Pedro, I will have to neg you every day for the rest of my Redszone life for such blasphemy. :mooner:

Ltlabner
12-20-2006, 03:52 PM
I'd rather a donkey violate my ear than the Grateful Dead.

I'd like to change my vote for "post of the year" please.....

M2
12-20-2006, 03:53 PM
Another example of quick-turnaround culture-churn: Green Day and Blink 182 used to be the snot-nosed punks ruining rock music. Now their old stuff seems like classic rock compared to Good Charlotte, etc.

Good point, I picked out Circle Jerks because they're the ur-snot punk outfit, but Green Day and Blink 182 clearly threw open the doors for what we've been subjected to over the past decade.

I don't think it's a matter of everything older being better, but I'd say a fairly common characteristic of good music is that it puts a new slant on things instead of trying to recycle something that's already been done, even if you don't bust a genre. Green Day and Blink 182 certainly aren't revolutionaries, but they're not complete redunancies either.

Ltlabner
12-20-2006, 04:03 PM
I don't think it's a matter of everything older being better, but I'd say a fairly common characteristic of good music is that it puts a new slant on things instead of trying to recycle something that's already been done, even if you don't bust a genre. Green Day and Blink 182 certainly aren't revolutionaries, but they're not complete redunancies either.

As the music industry has become more and more of an economic force, they play some role in "pushing" a trend. For example, the Seatle Sound or grunge or whatever you want to call it. A few actually tallented bands come out, and then the record lables who smell profits are suddenly pushing any band that sounds remotley like the orginal bands into the spotlight. Suddenly what was a new, fresh and interesting music form/genre becomes watered down, talentless crap.

I don't have any problems with wanting to make profits, but the music "industry" is more concerned with money and artistry when it comes right down to it.

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 04:12 PM
Okay, lets just say this now...

As bands like Husker Du, MBV (Loveless is a friggen great CD), The Great Fire of 1666/Biology/Interpol/Sonic Youth...come out and make new music bands like Hawthorne Hieghts, My Chemical Romance (Who sounds a hell of alot like Queen now) will always "pop-iffy" it and cliche it.

Hate the sins for the childern more because the "parent" bands set the trends..

Looking back you can say this as well.

The Misfits =>Metilica, Balzac, AFI, Son of Sam, Samhain and eventually Danzig.

Each "parent" band winds up influencing a "child" band...

Both poison's my suck though...just depends on your taste.

Johnny Footstool
12-20-2006, 04:15 PM
Good point, I picked out Circle Jerks because they're the ur-snot punk outfit, but Green Day and Blink 182 clearly threw open the doors for what we've been subjected to over the past decade.

I don't think it's a matter of everything older being better, but I'd say a fairly common characteristic of good music is that it puts a new slant on things instead of trying to recycle something that's already been done, even if you don't bust a genre. Green Day and Blink 182 certainly aren't revolutionaries, but they're not complete redunancies either.

To me, it's not the artistic style that's important. I stopped worrying about that long ago.

It's about personal taste. Do I like the song itself? Do I like listening to it?

registerthis
12-20-2006, 04:21 PM
No, really, I used to feel that way, but I've been using Pandora lately and they've thrown a couple of Dead songs at me that I've found palatable. anything that runs over three minutes gets canned, though.

Pandora is interesting. I'll put in a band I like to see what it spits back at me, and typically I'll like the first couple of songs. And then it gets all weird.

I put in a Catherine Wheel song once and I got some folksy/bluesy number. I really have no idea where things like that come from.

M2
12-20-2006, 04:22 PM
To me, it's not the artistic style that's important. I stopped worrying about that long ago.

It's about personal taste. Do I like the song itself? Do I like listening to it?

Good point. I should technically hate Rancid, but I'd be lying to you if I didn't admit that I like some of their completely derivative tunes.

registerthis
12-20-2006, 04:23 PM
Oh I like many of the shoegazers, too. My point wasn't to slam them outright, but rather to say they're complicit in influencing contemporary acts of teen angst.

I love shoegaze, man. MBV, Ride, Slowdive, quality stuff.

Nicky Wire of the Manic Street Preachers once said he hated Slowdive more than Hitler.

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 04:24 PM
Good point. I should technically hate Rancid, but I'd be lying to you if I didn't admit that I like some of their completely derivative tunes.


I like Rancid, well..older Rancid. Newer Rancid, with the advent of The Transplants kinda sucks..I dont care too much for the weird rap parts..that could have just been handed back to Matt..like the good ol'days of "Dead Bodies". :devil:

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 04:25 PM
I love shoegaze, man. MBV, Ride, Slowdive, quality stuff.

Shoegaze...

The scene that keeps itself alive. Bands used to go to other bands concerts, just because no one else would.

SunDeck
12-20-2006, 04:28 PM
Sorry M2, but I think you're just old and crotchety. However, you have earned it, just as everyone who has ever done or experienced anything has earned the right to declare those who follow as inferior, half-wits, whipper-snappers!

Movies were better in black and white, rock and roll was better with tube amps and four piece drum sets, baseball was better when guys knew how to play the game.

Sorry to break it to you brother, but when it comes to the right to determine what's popular, teenagers rule. And their tastes have been declining since Adam complained to Eve about that damned Cain and his friends out there, "playing music and doing pot until the break of dawn".

Having said that, I agree- all music created after my last day in college sucks worse every day that it continues to exist. It's the inevitable decline of art into commodity.

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 04:37 PM
It's the inevitable decline of art into commodity.


Music stopped being an artform when it became too infused with money-marketing scams. Lately it seems like now matter how good the type of music you like is, if they can't sell out a main stage somewhere, no one cares. If only six seventeen year olds know the name of the band, it's not selling enough and if the twenty somethings (That'd be me) really dig the music (Shoegaze type bands, Melodic Hardcore/Emo, Emo) then we're in between the two "culture sets". You're forced to like older music and popish music cause it's all you hear, it is the commodity as you say.

Diveristy in music is now labelled different and wrong, and normally if your band has decent lyrical quality, they don't get the radio play as a band who is cliche would...

Take this for example.

From Autumn to Ashes - No Trivia.

M 4 V T C N H, might need to provide that number at the gate.
Steady Pilot, casue Im half afraid..
I can't believed you'd ask me that, of course I don't believe in faith.

And would you be depressed if I attend that wedding but only as a guest?
Such an unfaithful bride, draped in dress, spun from threads of my regret.

To

Hawthorne Heights - Ohio is for Lovers

So cut my wrist and black my eyes..So I can fall asleep tonight and Die!
Because you kill me..
You know you do, you kill me well, you like to do it I can tell..You never stop until my final breath is gone.

HH is radio played.

Fata is not.

:bang: :bang:

registerthis
12-20-2006, 04:46 PM
Shoegaze...

The scene that keeps itself alive. Bands used to go to other bands concerts, just because no one else would.


I used to play in a band with a guy that also played in a local shoegaze outfit called The Emerald Down. If you were a shoegaze fan, you would like them. They were damn good at what they did.

vaticanplum
12-20-2006, 04:47 PM
While labels are concerned with making money above all (and they're a business; they're supposed to profit), I would like to point out that 90&#37; of the average major label's bands lose money for them. It's that top 10% that is keeping all the underground bands signed at all. You may think that giving Justin Timberlake money is insane, but when you buy his album, most of that money is actually going to the label, and a good part of that money is what is allowing Good Underground Brooklyn Band #342 to tour for three weeks to get their music out there to about 50 people.

I've of two minds on the music piracy thing -- I believe that all artists have a need to communicate, so to get their work out to as many people as possible should be a goal -- but as far as money for labels go, yes, they're making money, but every label does have a contingent whose job it is to get genuinely good, unknown music out there.

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 04:48 PM
:D I got into Shoegaze recently. Josh Newton (FATA's bassist) formed a band called "The Great Fire of 1666", loved the sound of it. Went back and got into MBV again...Then found out Josh was one of the nicest guys I'd ever met. :D

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 04:50 PM
While labels are concerned with making money above all (and they're a business; they're supposed to profit), I would like to point out that 90&#37; of the average major label's bands lose money for them. It's that top 10% that is keeping all the underground bands signed at all. You may think that giving Justin Timberlake money is insane, but when you buy his album, most of that money is actually going to the label, and a good part of that money is what is allowing Good Underground Brooklyn Band #342 to tour for three weeks to get their music out there to about 50 people.

I've of two minds on the music piracy thing -- I believe that all artists have a need to communicate, so to get their work out to as many people as possible should be a goal -- but as far as money for labels go, yes, they're making money, but every label does have a contingent whose job it is to get genuinely good, unknown music out there.


You're comparing major labels to the labels I listen to..Which in it's own right is fair and good points that you made. However...

Vagrant Records < Interscope

And thats pretty much what it comes down to.

And as far as piracy goes..If a bands real intent is make art in the form of music (And you will know us by the trail of the dead did this), They'd put out a weblink with a free download for the song. I know a few "underground" bands that love what they are doing enough to let their back-up singer blow out his voice because their lead singer quit the band before a tour. Two days of rest after three shows and he was ready to scream/sing again.

It's for those reasons I respect those bands more than mainstreamers.

Roy Tucker
12-20-2006, 04:53 PM
All I can say to you young uns' is that someday the cool and hip music you are now listening to will be on classic rock radio stations and VH1 Classic.

And you'll gauzily look back on "the day" in sepia tones. And your kids will look at you and say "what a fossil".

It's interesting being on the sunny side of 50. You are no longer marketed to. What you buy and what you do makes no difference to advertisers. They are after that 18-35 market.

vaticanplum
12-20-2006, 04:53 PM
You're comparing major labels to the labels I listen to..Which in it's own right is fair and good points that you made. However...

Vagrant Records < Interscope

And thats pretty much what it comes down to.

A lot of little labels are being sucked in by the bigs. One of my friends runs Beggars Banquet Records; he used to be part of Matador, but now the Beggars Group has a bunch of little labels. it's a separate entity but they're all still part of Matador. Sub Pop is considered a major label. Sony has a lot of smaller labels I think.

Ravenlord
12-20-2006, 04:54 PM
i think Alice Cooper summed it up well in an interview with Metal Edge a couple years back. basically he said that back when he first started, the record label VIPs would actually hang out with you in the studio, want to know what was going on, and just generally be excited about the entire process. then about 1975 that started to change, and by the time of making From the Inside the old line of VIPs were gone. the label was no longer about making music and getting some cash while at it, they were now about making money and the music didn't matter as long as it could be marketed.

SunDeck
12-20-2006, 04:55 PM
Maybe we've just reached the point where all the good music has been written. I mean, I'd be fine if I were just left with Bach, Mozart, Ellington, Copeland.
And 50 Cent.
I'm no Philistine.

Ravenlord
12-20-2006, 04:56 PM
Maybe we've just reached the point where all the good music has been written.i don't buy that for a second. the new Dream Theater, Jon Oliva's Pain, and Dimmu Borgir CDs prove that.

Johnny Footstool
12-20-2006, 04:57 PM
All I can say to you young uns' is that someday the cool and hip music you are now listening to will be on classic rock radio stations and VH1 Classic.

And you'll gauzily look back on "the day" in sepia tones. And your kids will look at you and say "what a fossil".

It's interesting being on the sunny side of 50. You are no longer marketed to. What you buy and what you do makes no difference to advertisers. They are after that 18-35 market.

I can't wait for the 2015 edition of "VH1's Classic Albums: Fall Out Boy - 'From Under the Cork Tree'."

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 05:00 PM
I can't wait for the 2015 edition of "VH1's Classic Albums: Fall Out Boy - 'From Under the Cork Tree'."

What about "VH1's Classic Albums: Thursday - 'Full Colaspe'"?

SunDeck
12-20-2006, 05:01 PM
i don't buy that for a second. the new Dream Theater, Jon Oliva's Pain, and Dimmu Borgir CDs prove that.

CDs? They still make those things, dad?

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 05:02 PM
CDs? They still make those things, dad?


Right along with the cassette I still own of Beasties Boys - Liscense to Ill..

Those were the days..:cry:

GAC
12-20-2006, 05:04 PM
I really can't comment because I don't remember too much about any of the myriad of concerts I went to back then. :evil:

I was never a Grateful Dead fan. Every time I hear Truckin' or Casey Jones I lament the day radio was born.

Yes was another big arena band... revolving stage, laser show, etc.

So where does that leave one's impression of Woodstock? A drugged out, drunken, mudding orgy?.... "GIVE ME A ......!"

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Right along with the cassette I still own of Beasties Boys - Liscense to Ill..

Those were the days..:cry:

I owened the album, cassette, and CD of that at different times of my life. Now I have the mp3's that are on that album.

Johnny Footstool
12-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Right along with the cassette I still own of Beasties Boys - Liscense to Ill.

3MTA3

Red Leader
12-20-2006, 05:06 PM
3MTA3

*mirror*

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 05:08 PM
I'm still waiting for someone to come in here bragging about The Smiths, The Sex Pistols (The ultimate consumer band), The Cure and The UK Subs..

westofyou
12-20-2006, 05:14 PM
I'm still waiting for someone to come in here bragging about The Smiths, The Sex Pistols (The ultimate consumer band), The Cure and The UK Subs..

I went to school where Camper Van Beethoven was from, local heroes they were somewhat one of a kind back then, they liked to make money too.

My brother-in-law had one of the guys in HH in his band class and band camp.

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 05:15 PM
HH was decent..when they went under the name "A day in the life". And yes HH is local, but that still doesn't mean I have to like them lol. No offense.:p:

Ravenlord
12-20-2006, 05:18 PM
I owened the album, cassette, and CD of that at different times of my life. Now I have the mp3's that are on that album.

i'm the same way Savatage's Sirens album.

my Dad has gone through it with Beatles albums, vinyl and 8-track to cassette and so on...

Ltlabner
12-20-2006, 05:26 PM
To me, it's not the artistic style that's important. I stopped worrying about that long ago.

It's about personal taste. Do I like the song itself? Do I like listening to it?

Good call JF. There are plenty of songs by bands that generally suck, or by bands than never put out another song that I find enjoyable on some level. Even if they are derivitive or v.75 of the flavor of the month.

pedro
12-20-2006, 05:33 PM
Vatican Plum, you are correct. The intrinsic thread that goes through bands like string cheese is that their songs suck.

And to those that think that all the good music has already been written I say BULLOCKS! Almost every tuesday something new and good comes out.

Johnny Footstool
12-20-2006, 05:34 PM
*mirror*

Man, remember when it was so cool and rare to find dirty words hidden on album covers or in songs?

Remember when "Darling Nikki" or 2 Live Crew were outrageous?

registerthis
12-20-2006, 06:13 PM
A lot of little labels are being sucked in by the bigs. One of my friends runs Beggars Banquet Records;

Ask your friend whatever happened to Bowery Electric. They were on Beggars, released an album that I adore in 2000, and then were never heard from again.

registerthis
12-20-2006, 06:17 PM
I went to school with the yahoos from Watershed. I never liked them, but they used to sell their albums in the school store.

registerthis
12-20-2006, 06:18 PM
I'm still waiting for someone to come in here bragging about The Smiths.

Just listened to Strangeways, Here We Come last night.

It's not "The Queen is Dead", but, ehrm....they just don't make 'em like that anymore.

vaticanplum
12-20-2006, 06:39 PM
Ask your friend whatever happened to Bowery Electric. They were on Beggars, released an album that I adore in 2000, and then were never heard from again.

Never heard of em. But he will have, I'll ask.

Dom Heffner
12-20-2006, 06:43 PM
There was a post on here that hit it on the head: A band comes out that revolutionizes or pushes music in another direction and then the evil music executives come along and try to cash in on it with a bunch of knock-offs.

Is it Blink-182's fault that we had all those pseudo skater punk bands?

I don't believe so. It's the label's fault, but as vaticanplum stated, some of that money goes for the development of new bands.

Where I have differed from most on here is that I am totally without shame in what I like.

I like some Styx songs. Journey, too. Styx made crap, lots of it. But there are some good songs in their catalog, too.

I find what some think to be classic as just God-awful: never got the Neil Young or Eric Clapton thing, but to each his own.

I don't ever want to be that record store clerk passing judgment on other's tastes (remember the ones in the 80s and 90s with dyed black hair and a wardrobe from Goodwill? And you're going to look down your nose at my White Lion purchase? lol)

If anybody here looked in my IPod, you'd find Dolly Parton, System of a Down, The New Pornographers, Motley Crue, and Avril Lavigne. I also have a ton of Phil Collins,Genesis, The Cure, and New Order.

At the end of the day, I like a good melody, no matter how the record company is trying to categorize somebody or if it's a knock off of somebody else.

Roger Ebert used to say that a movie isn't good just because it is original and it isn't bad just because it's not original.

It's not what it's about, but rather how it goes about it.

And no matter how hard I try, if i like it, it's in my iPod, even if it means Bryan Adams gets a few more royalties.

Dracodave
12-20-2006, 07:05 PM
That was my post that said that lol.

registerthis
12-21-2006, 09:21 AM
Genesis, The Cure, and New Order.

...one of these things is not like the other... :help:

SunDeck
12-21-2006, 12:02 PM
My great uncle was the pianist and arranger for the Charlie Kehrer Orchestra that played at Moonlight Gardens and Beverly Hills Supper Club in the 50s. His nephew (my uncle) was in the Haywoods. Yes, the Heywoods, for any of you who remember I am sure "Billy Don't be a Hero" is now relentlessly bouncing around in your head. (Actually, I am pretty sure he left the band before that song, but the point remains- he was involved.)

Anyway, I think this may prove the point- here are two generations, one arguably producing music during a golden age of american jazz, the other participating in the mindnumbing decline of music into the 70s.

The family is waiting to see what the next generation produces. Hopefully, we are finished torturing the world.

Red Leader
12-21-2006, 01:37 PM
You said "pianist."

Huh-huh.

Sorry, back to the discussion.

Dom Heffner
12-21-2006, 01:40 PM
...one of these things is not like the other...

And that thing, in my opinion, is the best of the three.

Musical tastes are great, aren't they?

gonelong
12-21-2006, 02:43 PM
You said "pianist."

Huh-huh.

Sorry, back to the discussion.

when I first signed up at Redszone my username was very close to being

10 inch pianist

I decided against it, first impressions and all. Sometime last year I was on a site where a guy had a pretty similar name, 12"pianist or something similar.

Oh yeah, music stopped being produced in 1991 as far as I know. Maybe you guys didn't get the memo.

GL

Falls City Beer
12-21-2006, 02:47 PM
And that thing, in my opinion, is the best of the three.

Musical tastes are great, aren't they?

The arpeggiated piano part at the beginning Firth of Fifth buries the entire Robert Smith oeuvre.

Highlifeman21
12-21-2006, 08:22 PM
I blame the Beatles for everything that's wrong with the world of music.

I wish those 4 bastards kept their no talent ass clown beings over on the other side of the pond where they belong.

Thankfully, Led Zeppelin attempted to undo all the evil that was caused by the Beatles.

Everything that followed Led Zep, I continue to blame on the Beatles, Bill Walton and the Grateful Dead.

westofyou
12-21-2006, 08:25 PM
Thankfully, Led Zeppelin attempted to undo all the evil that was caused by the Beatles.

Thanks for the giggle and to think I used to stay up waiting to hear Stairway to Heaven back in 1974.

I should have realized that it was never going to go away, the Hobbit dwells deep in the heart of Mr. Palmer.

Blimpie
12-21-2006, 08:46 PM
I blame the Beatles for everything that's wrong with the world of music.

I wish those 4 bastards kept their no talent ass clown beings over on the other side of the pond where they belong.

Thankfully, Led Zeppelin attempted to undo all the evil that was caused by the Beatles.

Everything that followed Led Zep, I continue to blame on the Beatles, Bill Walton and the Grateful Dead.Dude, the Beatles made it possible to HAVE a Led Zeppelin.

Your comment is just completely bananas.

Highlifeman21
12-21-2006, 09:27 PM
Dude, the Beatles made it possible to HAVE a Led Zeppelin.

Your comment is just completely bananas.

I hate the Beatles more than I hate Jerry Narron.

And I really hate Jerry Narron.

Blimpie
12-21-2006, 11:22 PM
I hate the Beatles more than I hate Jerry Narron.

And I really hate Jerry Narron.To each his own, I guess.

pedro
12-22-2006, 05:59 PM
I blame the Beatles for everything that's wrong with the world of music.

I wish those 4 bastards kept their no talent ass clown beings over on the other side of the pond where they belong.

Thankfully, Led Zeppelin attempted to undo all the evil that was caused by the Beatles.

Everything that followed Led Zep, I continue to blame on the Beatles, Bill Walton and the Grateful Dead.


the only thing led Zeppelin was good at "undoing" was there pants. They're ok and all but IMO they're the most overrated band of all time and their lyrics border on the comical.

pedro
12-22-2006, 06:03 PM
BTW- what is an ass clown?

sounds painful.

westofyou
12-22-2006, 06:13 PM
Thankfully, Led Zeppelin attempted to undo all the evil that was caused by the Beatles.

It's hard to undo evil when you contribute to it.

I've heard that Page played on Paperback Writer, plus we also know he's behind the evil in Joe Cocker's cover of the Beatles song "With a little help from my friends"

Chip R
12-22-2006, 06:16 PM
BTW- what is an ass clown?



Michael Bolton is a no talent ass clown.

dougdirt
12-22-2006, 06:56 PM
I blame bad music on people who listen to and buy it.

Chip R
12-22-2006, 07:13 PM
I blame bad music on people who listen to and buy it.


Not me. I blame Bob Boone.

Dom Heffner
12-22-2006, 08:22 PM
Michael Bolton is a no talent ass clown.

No- I'm a no talent ass clown. :)

dsmith421
01-13-2007, 03:54 AM
The arpeggiated piano part at the beginning Firth of Fifth buries the entire Robert Smith oeuvre.

According to legend, Genesis played that number on the Selling England tour, and during the first show Tony Banks got so completely confused halfway through that he stopped playing, yelled an obscenity, and the entire band (expecting this turn of events) crashed directly into the first verse.

I see nothing wrong with the fact that "Firth of Fifth" sits directly between "Safe European Home" and "Love Will Tear Us Apart" on a recent playlist. Others might.

Matt700wlw
01-13-2007, 09:43 AM
The Beatles started everything....

Stupid Mop Top stoners!!! :D :p:

Matt700wlw
01-13-2007, 09:49 AM
Not me. I blame Bob Boone.

I blame El Nino

IslandRed
01-13-2007, 06:42 PM
Good thread. Wish I'd seen it over the holidays. Living around Nashville, I'll address the one about blaming Garth Brooks for modern country pop. Unequivocally no, IMO. Country ebbs and flows over the years and will generally go more and more pop until the audience starts rejecting it, at which point it lurches back to a more traditional sound. I don't think Brooks was popular because he redefined the sound of country or anything. He just had some good songs and made his live shows must-sees for country fans. Most of that was just copying Chris Ledoux (which Brooks freely admitted) who was taking cues from arena rock shows, but "arena country" on the scale of a Brooks concert was new to the genre.

No, the sound of modern country radio can largely be blamed on country radio itself. The media consolidations of the 1990s left the bulk of big-city stations in the hands of relatively few programmers, who market-researched themselves into defining the typical country listener as a 35-year-old suburban female. Good luck getting national airplay for songs and artists that don't test well with that demographic. That explains Rascal Flatts. (The other thing that explains Rascal Flatts is ProTools, but I digress.)

Doc. Scott
01-15-2007, 10:27 PM
Coming from a heavy radio background (both CHR/Top 40 and college) with no childhood MTV to muck things up, I have always been a "songs uber alles" kind of guy. I'm aware of a band's "lineage", but don't hold it against them until their songs or some other specific aspect (often the singing, especially, or the lyrics) are proven to suck.

Furthermore, blaming the parents for the children seems pretty harsh, don't you think? Like Jimmy Page would ever give anyone from Whitesnake the time of day.

Oh, wait...