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Kc61
12-21-2006, 01:58 PM
I could take the non-action better, if the front office, either directly or through the press, let fans know what the game plan is. Even with the spurt of RedsFest publicity, there has been no real communication from the FO.

I can just hear the responses. What do you want them to do, publicize their strategy? Isn't that bad for making deals?

I'm not suggesting that the Reds reveal their specific plans. But they are conveying the impression either that they have no plan, or their plan is to just pick up some inexpensive pieces and "compete" for fourth place.

Would it be so terrible to say something like: "We are working on a number of player transactions that will please Reds fans, but probably won't develop for a few weeks." Or, "we are being very cautious in this market because we don't want to sacrifice either financial flexibility or mortgage the future." Or, "we had some plans but, after exploring them fully, the transactions wouldn't have helped our club. We are still looking at several player moves but won't make deals unless they help the team."

Aren't devoted fans entitled to some general statement of what the team is doing?

Heath
12-21-2006, 02:10 PM
I could take the non-action better, if the front office, either directly or through the press, let fans know what the game plan is. Even with the spurt of RedsFest publicity, there has been no real communication from the FO.

I can just hear the responses. What do you want them to do, publicize their strategy? Isn't that bad for making deals?

I'm not suggesting that the Reds reveal their specific plans. But they are conveying the impression either that they have no plan, or their plan is to just pick up some inexpensive pieces and "compete" for fourth place.

Would it be so terrible to say something like: "We are working on a number of player transactions that will please Reds fans, but probably won't develop for a few weeks." Or, "we are being very cautious in this market because we don't want to sacrifice either financial flexibility or mortgage the future." Or, "we had some plans but, after exploring them fully, the transactions wouldn't have helped our club. We are still looking at several player moves but won't make deals unless they help the team."

Aren't devoted fans entitled to some general statement of what the team is doing?

Short Answer - No.

NJReds
12-21-2006, 02:12 PM
There's actually a fairly long thread on this topic in Reds Live:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53411

Always Red
12-21-2006, 05:23 PM
Short Answer - No.

BUT, if you're interested in the marketing of your "product", then it would behoove you to create a buzz, and stimulate interest. To actually connect with your "consumers" find out what they like or dislike about your product. Maybe even tell those consumers what to expect in the future from your product.

Ultimately, you're right, they don't have to say anything. If they want to continue business as usual, as it's been for far too long now.

And then no one will care, or talk or go, except us poor addicted souls here on RZ.

I don't think Castellini has that in mind, and won't let that happen. The ultimate sure fire marketing plan is to produce a winner. That takes some time (how much- IDK?). So, for now, the Reds are building up decent pitching (better than last years, so far), better defense, and hopefully a stronger farm system. And they're marketing the announcers and RedsFest, because, believe it or not, that stuff draws a lot of casual fans. The folks here are pretty hardcore, hard to please, and as stated before, exactly half of us are unhappy about everything!

WMR
12-21-2006, 05:35 PM
The plan is there is no plan. Acquire as many old, disposable players as possible.

Aronchis
12-21-2006, 09:04 PM
The plan is to build around Dunn/Harang while they move young talent into the team in 2007-09. That is why they have not been making "expensive" move to throw the team over the top because they don't feel it is good enough to contend. That is what they are telling us. Maybe they will switch gears and trade Dunn/Harang, but they may feel that is unnecessary longterm if they can sign both.

These 'throw away' players the Reds collect are brought in for that very reason. They are easy to throw away after they aren't needed anymore.

It is Transitional Progress. A streamlined process of moving in young talent while keeping a respectable(but mostly losing product intially). That means no 55-107 seasons.

This year Votto will be moved in,Bailey a bit also(lightly though, he is more 2008). In 2008 Bruce(breakout year) and Cueto ete ete ete. If things change and something that comes up that alters the lineup, then so be it, but progress is progress and Krivsky is banking on Transitional Progress to lead the Reds to glory! I suspect in 3 years Krivsky will right a book called "Transitional Progress" and will become the moneyball of the 2010's.:devil:

2009 lineup:
CF: Drew Stubbs!!!! 24
RF: Jay Bruce 22
LF: Adam Dunn 29
1st: Joey Votto 25
2nd: ???????
SS: Gonzo 32
3rd: EE 26
C: ???????

Looks like a restored offense to me. Though Krivsky will have to figure out a few positions coming outside the organization or one of his 2006 college draftee's. But overall, a young vibrant offense. Just think, Dunner will only 29 though he has seemingly been here forever lol.

dsmith421
12-21-2006, 11:31 PM
So the plan is to assume that every single high-level prospect in the organization will turn into an All-Star.

Fantastic. Why didn't I think of that?

WVRedsFan
12-21-2006, 11:42 PM
The plan is there is no plan. Acquire as many old, disposable players as possible.

I think we have a winner.

If there is a plan, it is to have these old, disposable players have career years and then ease the youngsters into the lineup. It's cheap and goes right along with the so-called Minnesota philosophy.

I hate it. The Reds since July have gone from a reasonably young team to an old team. And you just can't count on Votto, et al to make it to be a success in the majors.

IMHO, it's a train wreck and being from a railroad family, that's not pretty. I simply cannot believe what is happening.

Aronchis
12-22-2006, 12:11 AM
So the plan is to assume that every single high-level prospect in the organization will turn into an All-Star.

Fantastic. Why didn't I think of that?

You mean like it happened in Oakland,Detroit or Minnesota? Yep, it happens. Thinking Bailey,Bruce,Votto ete 'can't' workout is self-defeating. When it pans out, organizations suddenly stop losing. Doesn't hurt you have Dunn,EE and Harang already here. Sounds like something may be coming together...........or it may not. That is the fun part of it. The possibilities. I think this group has as good as chance as any in recent Reds history. Bailey and Votto already have had some success in AA and Bruce is the type of talent that I wouldn't be surprised doesn't pull a Dunn or Wright his full 3rd year of professional ball.

Krivsky and Cast better have some backup plans if they fall through, but that is part of running an organization.

guttle11
12-22-2006, 12:25 AM
I think we have a winner.

If there is a plan, it is to have these old, disposable players have career years and then ease the youngsters into the lineup. It's cheap and goes right along with the so-called Minnesota philosophy.

I hate it. The Reds since July have gone from a reasonably young team to an old team. And you just can't count on Votto, et al to make it to be a success in the majors.

IMHO, it's a train wreck and being from a railroad family, that's not pretty. I simply cannot believe what is happening.

I'll take some Minnesota philosophy with a side of multiple playoffs.

WVRedsFan
12-22-2006, 12:36 AM
I'll take some Minnesota philosophy with a side of multiple playoffs.


If you look at those Minnesota teams, you have to admit the talent pool was more impressive than ours. Our minors haven't produced and won't for years. What you do in the meantime is not to inject 40-somethings into the lineup. No matter that they know what to do with the bat and play the game the right way.

guttle11
12-22-2006, 01:11 AM
If you look at those Minnesota teams, you have to admit the talent pool was more impressive than ours. Our minors haven't produced and won't for years. What you do in the meantime is not to inject 40-somethings into the lineup. No matter that they know what to do with the bat and play the game the right way.

You certainly don't do it by signing mediocre guys to 3, 4, or 5 year deals.

I don't look at their age. I look at them being reasonably priced stop gaps.

Topcat
12-22-2006, 01:51 AM
You mean like it happened in Oakland,Detroit or Minnesota? Yep, it happens. Thinking Bailey,Bruce,Votto ete 'can't' workout is self-defeating. When it pans out, organizations suddenly stop losing. Doesn't hurt you have Dunn,EE and Harang already here. Sounds like something may be coming together...........or it may not. That is the fun part of it. The possibilities. I think this group has as good as chance as any in recent Reds history. Bailey and Votto already have had some success in AA and Bruce is the type of talent that I wouldn't be surprised doesn't pull a Dunn or Wright his full 3rd year of professional ball.

Krivsky and Cast better have some backup plans if they fall through, but that is part of running an organization.


You so deserve rep for this! I have given out to much apparently. I applaud you for realizing that this has to be the way the Red's have to rebuild if there is any hope for a long term contender.

remdog
12-22-2006, 03:18 AM
If you are pinning all your hopes on Bailey, Votto, and Bruce all arriving in '08 and being major league regulars (much less leading you to the playoffs) you are useing the Enron blueprint for operating a company----run a shell game for as long as possible and hope you hit the jackpot before it collapses onto itself. Yep, it happens (the kids all blossum as a group) once in a great while but the odds are heavily stacked against it.

Better to try to build elsewhere as well as wait on a mircle to happen. This off season would have been a good time to start.

Rem

Spring~Fields
12-22-2006, 04:23 AM
If you are pinning all your hopes on Bailey, Votto, and Bruce all arriving in '08 and being major league regulars (much less leading you to the playoffs) you are useing the Enron blueprint for operating a company----run a shell game for as long as possible and hope you hit the jackpot before it collapses onto itself. Yep, it happens (the kids all blossum as a group) once in a great while but the odds are heavily stacked against it.

Better to try to build elsewhere as well as wait on a mircle to happen. This off season would have been a good time to start.
Rem

Not to mention we have seen that plan (the youth movement) come and bust before also.

You clearly have your finger on the pulse.

Falls City Beer
12-22-2006, 08:50 AM
You mean like it happened in Oakland,Detroit or Minnesota? Yep, it happens. Thinking Bailey,Bruce,Votto ete 'can't' workout is self-defeating. When it pans out, organizations suddenly stop losing. Doesn't hurt you have Dunn,EE and Harang already here. Sounds like something may be coming together...........or it may not. That is the fun part of it. The possibilities. I think this group has as good as chance as any in recent Reds history. Bailey and Votto already have had some success in AA and Bruce is the type of talent that I wouldn't be surprised doesn't pull a Dunn or Wright his full 3rd year of professional ball.

Krivsky and Cast better have some backup plans if they fall through, but that is part of running an organization.

Only Votto is close to the majors. Bruce and Bailey are a couple of seasons away, if they make it at all. You never want to place all your money on a minor league bet. It's just horrible business. And Beane, Dombrowski, and Ryan know that.