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View Full Version : Homer Bailey, Untouchable?



jbran1114
12-22-2006, 07:28 AM
Who would you trade Homer Bailey for? Just curious to see what people would do if the situation ever came up. What would you expect in return if the deal was ever done?

icehole3
12-22-2006, 07:42 AM
no one, he's the next Nolan Ryan.

jbran1114
12-22-2006, 07:45 AM
What would you expect if it was done, realistically

Degenerate39
12-22-2006, 08:24 AM
no one, he's the next Nolan Ryan.

Amen

SunDeck
12-22-2006, 08:32 AM
Bailey is not a major leaguer yet but he's definitely untouchable if you're talking about trading him for anything but an established (a #1 or #2) starting pitcher. He may be Nolan Ryan, and he may be Rich Ankiel; if someone wants to put together some insanely good package for him, well no one's untradeable.

Redhook
12-22-2006, 08:33 AM
Bailey, IMO, should be untouchable. This organization needs to shed itself of the reputation, although true, that it can't develop good pitching. Bailey needs to be given that opportunity to change it. Will he succeed or fail? I have no idea, but at this point, it appears he has a good chance to succeed. Give him the chance.

bucksfan2
12-22-2006, 09:16 AM
Santana and maybe guys like Peavy or Beckett or another young guy who has had success if and only if they are guanenteed to be a red for the next 5+ years.

corkedbat
12-22-2006, 10:04 AM
No one is untouchable, but if you deal him you better put a serious hurting on the other fellow. I would move Arroyo or Harang (if he can't be extended) before you move Homer. Ideally, you keep all three and try to build around them. I would love to see the Reds for once with a seriously strong rotation for once.

Homer is not a sure thing (no prospect is), but its been so long since the Reds system has produced an arm even approaching his caliber that I believe you have to hold onto him and ride it out.

M2
12-22-2006, 10:28 AM
no one, he's the next Nolan Ryan.

The team that had Nolan Ryan at age 20 got darn little out of him. He broke through at age 25.


Homer is not a sure thing (no prospect is), but its been so long since the Reds system has produced an arm even approaching his caliber that I believe you have to hold onto him and ride it out.

Since 2002 to be exact. Now, I think Bailey is a better prospect than Ty Howington was, but Howington had an incredible 2001 season and BA ranked him the 25th-best prospect in baseball (Bailey will go top 10 in the 2007 list).

The right trade for Bailey probably isn't out there, but if you could get a major league pitcher you love (whoever that may be) then it would be fairly crazy to hold onto Bailey on principle.

corkedbat
12-22-2006, 10:43 AM
The team that had Nolan Ryan at age 20 got darn little out of him. He broke through at age 25.



Since 2002 to be exact. Now, I think Bailey is a better prospect than Ty Howington was, but Howington had an incredible 2001 season and BA ranked him the 25th-best prospect in baseball (Bailey will go top 10 in the 2007 list).

The right trade for Bailey probably isn't out there, but if you could get a major league pitcher you love (whoever that may be) then it would be fairly crazy to hold onto Bailey on principle.


Agreed, but it would probably be a pitcher who was near Free Agency (in which case I don't do the deal) or someone so good that the other guy won't do the deal for an untried arm like Bailey (as you said, it probably isn't out there).

In any case, I do my very utmost to make the deal to put this theorectical arm in the rotation next to Bailey instead of instead of him. That includes crafting a deal from among Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Wood or possible even Dunn (if I can get a bat back also) if need be.

corkedbat
12-22-2006, 10:58 AM
These are the 10 players in the Reds system that it would be hardest for me to deal. The higher the rank the greater the more I would holdout. With a 3yr. contract extension, Harang would leapfrog Homer. Dunn is probably still the most valuable asset in the system and I wouldn't want to deal him, but he's probably also the one most likely to bring an equitable return/value if bundled in a trade so that makes him a little bit more palatable for me to deal and lowers his rank a bit.

1. Bailey
2. Harang
3. Encarnacion
4. Dunn
5. Bruce
6. Arroyo
7. Cueto
8. Wood
9. Votto
10. Phillips

bucksfan2
12-22-2006, 11:40 AM
My 10 would be as follows
1. Baily
2. Bruce
3. Harang (if a longer term deal is worked out, if not he drops)
4. EE
5. Votto
6. Wood
7. Phillips
8. Dunn
9. Cueto
10. Griffey (he means too much to this team marketing wise. He sells merchandise and brings people to the ball park. Not to mention he is on the verge of 600 and is a future HOF.)

AdamDunn
12-22-2006, 12:01 PM
The Untouchables
1. Bailey
2. Bruce
3. Votto
4. Harang
5. Encarnacion
6. Wood
7. Cueto
8. Dunn
9. Phillips
10. Bray

For everyone on this list, they are almost untouchable completely, but not quite. As Peter Griffin once sang "Can't touch this. Except you, you can touch this all the time" (I just wanted to say that). And anybody can touch Griffey if they give up a prospect and don't want any more than two million dollars. He's HORRIBLE for our defense. I love Griffey, but trading him to anybody willing to pick up his contract would be the smartest move.

deltachi8
12-22-2006, 12:03 PM
There are no untouchables in my book.

corkedbat
12-22-2006, 12:03 PM
My 10 would be as follows
1. Baily
2. Bruce
3. Harang (if a longer term deal is worked out, if not he drops)
4. EE
5. Votto
6. Wood
7. Phillips
8. Dunn
9. Cueto
10. Griffey (he means too much to this team marketing wise. He sells merchandise and brings people to the ball park. Not to mention he is on the verge of 600 and is a future HOF.)

I love Junior, but would probably move him in any deal offered thst toolk a significant portion of his remaining contract with it.

I think his contract, waning skills and his liability in CF far out-weigh any remaining marketing value at this point. Due to his injuriy woes of the last few years, I think his drawing-power is seriously diminished anyway.

If he moved to a corner OF spot I would consider retaining him, but any offer of anything seriously useful would mean he was gone if I was GM.

Johnny Footstool
12-22-2006, 12:07 PM
Don't fall in love with prospects. The roadside is littered with guys who were supposed to be "the real deal," but just didn't make it for one reason or another.

If the right trade comes along, no one is untouchable.

guttle11
12-22-2006, 12:10 PM
No one is untouchable. Some just cost more.

M2
12-22-2006, 12:12 PM
If the right trade comes along ...

For instance say a guy gets a DUI and his cheapskate ownership decides that's reason enough to put him on the market.

Benihana
12-22-2006, 12:13 PM
I would trade Bailey for
1. Santana
2. Halladay
3. Verlander
4. Jared Weaver
5. Rich Harden

That's probably about it.

Here's another interesting question: Would you trade Adam Dunn for Andrew Miller and Curtis Granderson? I would seriously consider it.

dougdirt
12-22-2006, 12:20 PM
benihana, I would do it in a heartbeat. The Tigers however, I dont think would consider it. I doubt they do it for Miller straight up, much less with Granderson.

guttle11
12-22-2006, 12:25 PM
Here's another interesting question: Would you trade Adam Dunn for Andrew Miller and Curtis Granderson? I would seriously consider it.

Can't get Miller until June, but no, I would do it.

That screams full rebuild and this team doesn't need that.

George Anderson
12-22-2006, 12:27 PM
Assuming he starts the season at AAA, I would wait and see how he performed at that level to gauge if he is potentially tradeable. Going from AA to AAA is a big step.

redsfan30
12-22-2006, 12:36 PM
For the right return I'd trade anybody on the roster.

icehole3
12-22-2006, 01:18 PM
The team that had Nolan Ryan at age 20 got darn little out of him. He broke through at age 25.



Since 2002 to be exact. Now, I think Bailey is a better prospect than Ty Howington was, but Howington had an incredible 2001 season and BA ranked him the 25th-best prospect in baseball (Bailey will go top 10 in the 2007 list).

The right trade for Bailey probably isn't out there, but if you could get a major league pitcher you love (whoever that may be) then it would be fairly crazy to hold onto Bailey on principle.

He goes through the batting the first time around before anyone knows what hit them and he's gonna do this on the AAA level then in the big leagues. He's about as sure a thing to ever hit Reds country. He's gonna be to the Reds what Palmer is to the Bengals. We need to sit back and enjoy this kid as the next coming, dont trade it away. Like Pete Rose did he's gonna put butts in the seats every fifth day.

westofyou
12-22-2006, 01:20 PM
He's about as sure a thing to ever hit Reds country.

Gary Nolan says hello.

Maybe he's the next Wayne Simpson or Frank Pastore, shoot I'd take Gary Nolan after his arm injury now.

But I'm not anointing him savior just yet, that's how this franchise got to where they are at.

M2
12-22-2006, 01:26 PM
He goes through the batting the first time around before anyone knows what hit them and he's gonna do this on the AAA level then in the big leagues. He's about as sure a thing to ever hit Reds country. He's gonna be to the Reds what Palmer is to the Bengals. We need to sit back and enjoy this kid as the next coming, dont trade it away. Like Pete Rose did he's gonna put butts in the seats every fifth day.

I got an Edwin Jackson, Gavin Floyd and Ryan Anderson that says Homer's road to the majors will be far bumpier than you're currently imagining it will.

AdamDunn
12-22-2006, 01:31 PM
Here's another interesting question: Would you trade Adam Dunn for Andrew Miller and Curtis Granderson? I would seriously consider it.

Yes Yes Yes and Yes... young pitching baby!

15fan
12-22-2006, 02:42 PM
Back during the season when Homer was ripping through the Southern League, I think BA put Homer as #1 on their Hot Prospect sheet.

I noted that Homer's value would never ever be as high as it was at that point in time.

I'm certainly in no rush to move Homer.

But I'd move him for a bona fide front of the rotation starter in a heartbeat.

Even better would be to package him with a big contract, dead weight guy, like, oh, I don't know...Eric Milton.

If I could ditch that contract AND pick up a legit starter for Bailey, that's a trigger I'd pull faster than you can say "Rolando Roomes".

Jpup
12-22-2006, 03:46 PM
I'd trade him in 3 shakes of a lamb's tail. :D I would have to get a #2+ in return though.

REDblooded
12-22-2006, 05:34 PM
cole hamels is another young arm that would get me to open discussions.

Johnny Footstool
12-22-2006, 05:59 PM
If I could ditch that contract AND pick up a legit starter for Bailey, that's a trigger I'd pull faster than you can say "Rolando Roomes".


"Pat Pacillo" has fewer syllables.

Chip R
12-22-2006, 06:39 PM
Bailey, IMO, should be untouchable. This organization needs to shed itself of the reputation, although true, that it can't develop good pitching.

I see what you are saying but can they actually develop Homer into a bona fide major league pitcher? His value may be at an all time high now. It may never be this high again. If he does develop into that bona fide pitcher, will it be because or in spite of the organization's developmental practices? He may tear his rotator cuff in ST - God forbid - and turn into Brandon Claussen.

The conventional wisdom seems to be that all Homer needs is a little more seasoning - and some believe he's ready right now - and he's going to be a perennial Cy Young award candidate for the next 15 years. I hope so but, like M2 said, Nolan Ryan didn't become the great pitcher until he was in the big leagues for about 3-4 years. Gibson and Koufax struggled their first few years in the big leagues. Kerry Wood set the world on fire when he came up but has struggled with injuries and is now going to pitch out of the bullpen for the Cubs. Mark Prior was supposed to be the Next Big Thing but has also struggled with injuries. Those DET pitchers got smacked around pretty good for a few years before they came around. Bonderman either lost 20 games or was really close a couple of years ago and now he's making $10M a year. The odds on Homer being one of the great ones are pretty long even after the year he had last year.

I probably wouldn't trade him now but I'd certainly listen to offers.

icehole3
12-22-2006, 07:13 PM
Gary Nolan says hello.

Maybe he's the next Wayne Simpson or Frank Pastore, shoot I'd take Gary Nolan after his arm injury now.

But I'm not anointing him savior just yet, that's how this franchise got to where they are at.

cheer up its christmas, he's Tom Seaver II. I can hope and wish cant I?

Highlifeman21
12-22-2006, 07:17 PM
These are the 10 players in the Reds system that it would be hardest for me to deal. The higher the rank the greater the more I would holdout. With a 3yr. contract extension, Harang would leapfrog Homer. Dunn is probably still the most valuable asset in the system and I wouldn't want to deal him, but he's probably also the one most likely to bring an equitable return/value if bundled in a trade so that makes him a little bit more palatable for me to deal and lowers his rank a bit.

1. Bailey
2. Harang
3. Encarnacion
4. Dunn
5. Bruce
6. Arroyo
7. Cueto
8. Wood
9. Votto
10. Phillips

Of that 10, I would say Wood and Cueto would be HIGH at the top of my list of most readily tradeable.

Bailey wouldn't be far from the top, either.

EE and Dunn would probably be high on my hardest to trade list, however. The rest of them? Make me a deal, make it happen.

Highlifeman21
12-22-2006, 07:22 PM
I would trade Bailey for
1. Santana
2. Halladay
3. Verlander
4. Jared Weaver
5. Rich Harden

That's probably about it.

Here's another interesting question: Would you trade Adam Dunn for Andrew Miller and Curtis Granderson? I would seriously consider it.

And each of those respective teams would die of laughter. If you think Homer Bailey will turn out to be any of those 5, you're seriously drunk off the kool-aid.

Dracodave
12-22-2006, 09:03 PM
If you package Bailey up with anyone and pull a Verlander out of the hat..


You are better than Beane and I will bow before you.

vaticanplum
12-22-2006, 09:38 PM
cole hamels is another young arm that would get me to open discussions.

I think Bailey's going to be better than Hamels. And so far he's proven himself less susceptible to injury than Hamels as well.

I don't think most players are untouchable, and I definitely don't think pitching prospects are untouchable, but Bailey is so hyped right now that I think it would be stupid for the Reds to take anything but a young-but-already-very-established players for him. Hamels is far from established.

Dracodave
12-22-2006, 09:46 PM
I think Bailey's going to be better than Hamels. And so far he's proven himself less susceptible to injury than Hamels as well.

I don't think most players are untouchable, and I definitely don't think pitching prospects are untouchable, but Bailey is so hyped right now that I think it would be stupid for the Reds to take anything but a young-but-already-very-established players for him. Hamels is far from established.


So unless we fleece a team, we keep bailey? I know he's hyped and supposively the next big deal but...

He's still a prospect. Untested, unproven and unreliable. If you can make a deal like Houston did for Jennings for say Bonderman, do you do it? All hype and questions for a all upside established pitcher? I'm justing asking and don't think Im being rude..

My question simply is..
To fleece or get fleeced? :laugh:

vaticanplum
12-22-2006, 09:55 PM
So unless we fleece a team, we keep bailey? I know he's hyped and supposively the next big deal but...

He's still a prospect. Untested, unproven and unreliable. If you can make a deal like Houston did for Jennings for say Bonderman, do you do it? All hype and questions for a all upside established pitcher? I'm justing asking and don't think Im being rude..

My question simply is..
To fleece or get fleeced? :laugh:

I agree that prospects, especially pitching prospects, are very questionable. I would not be at all averse to trading Bailey for the right player(s), but I think it's important not to undervalue what you have too. Bailey is generally regarded as the first- or second-best pitching prospect in all of baseball. At the rate that major league pitchers are going for, even bad ones, I believe that a top-notch prospect can fetch a lot in return and still be looked on as a "deal" by the team that gets him. It's perception rather than a proven pitcher, that's true. But perception is always all you have with prospects, so he is undoubtedly at the very top of that market.

We also have the unfortunate matter of The Trade. Sorry to bring it up, but I actually am doing so in a good way. The FO of the Reds may be making stupid decisions in many ways, but with that trade still looming over their heads, I think we will be protected from seeing any huge trade that could possibly be regarded as giving up too much for too little in the near future. Again, still based heavily on perception, but still. And any trade involving Bailey is going to be huge. So I believe that they're going to make sure they get good return for him.

Honestly, I don't think he will be traded. And for the time being I'm very ok with that too. Good starting pitchers from the farm system are pretty much the greatest blessing a team can have in so many ways.

Dracodave
12-22-2006, 09:59 PM
Honestly, I don't think he will be traded. And for the time being I'm very ok with that too. Good starting pitchers from the farm system are pretty much the greatest blessing a team can have in so many ways.

I agree with that, but I also seem to think that this team maybe better off..

Trading it's "known" players in for the future. We've basically been rebuilding anyway, and the fact that we sign Jeff Conine to play first tells me maybe "untouchable" should be changed to "for the right price, and that price is..". That concept transcends Bailey and hits Dunn, Ross, Arroyo etc.

Perhaps cashing in like Beane did with Mulder isn't such a bad idea. Getting three players for Arroyo who can bridge gaps might be a good thing..

Don't like words hold your team back because well "we think he can repeat that".

Chip R
12-22-2006, 10:05 PM
I agree that prospects, especially pitching prospects, are very questionable. I would not be at all averse to trading Bailey for the right player(s), but I think it's important not to undervalue what you have too. Bailey is generally regarded as the first- or second-best pitching prospect in all of baseball. At the rate that major league pitchers are going for, even bad ones, I believe that a top-notch prospect can fetch a lot in return and still be looked on as a "deal" by the team that gets him. It's perception rather than a proven pitcher, that's true. But perception is always all you have with prospects, so he is undoubtedly at the very top of that market.

We also have the unfortunate matter of The Trade. Sorry to bring it up, but I actually am doing so in a good way. The FO of the Reds may be making stupid decisions in many ways, but with that trade still looming over their heads, I think we will be protected from seeing any huge trade that could possibly be regarded as giving up too much for too little in the near future. Again, still based heavily on perception, but still. And any trade involving Bailey is going to be huge. So I believe that they're going to make sure they get good return for him.

Honestly, I don't think he will be traded. And for the time being I'm very ok with that too. Good starting pitchers from the farm system are pretty much the greatest blessing a team can have in so many ways.


Yeah. Right now, on a scale of 1-100, Homer's value is probably right around 80-90. There may be teams begging Wayne to trade him and even if the return is 40 year old relief pitchers, Wayne has stayed strong in the face of that great temptation. ;)

I guess I'm not confident that Wayne can get value for Homer even while his value is this high. I don't think he would be traded straight up for 1 or 2 players. I think he'd be packaged with someone.

If the Reds were at a point where 1 player could put them over the top, then I'd trade him in a second. If it turns out to be a Doyle Alexander-John Smoltz trade, then that's the way it goes. Hopefully it wouldn't turn out to be a Bagwell for Anderson deal. But the Reds are not at that point so you keep him unless someone blows your doors off.

Caveat Emperor
12-22-2006, 10:19 PM
And each of those respective teams would die of laughter. If you think Homer Bailey will turn out to be any of those 5, you're seriously drunk off the kool-aid.

Weaver was never projected to be much more than a mid-#2 to high-#3 if I remember correctly -- he was just much more advanced than most of the other guys in his draft, which made him a more exciting commodity.

FWIW, I think any talk of trading Bailey will be moot by April -- I fully expect Bailey to make the 25-man out of spring training as the 5th starter.

jmac
12-22-2006, 11:50 PM
I would trade Bailey for

2. Halladay


I think Halladay is one of the most under-rated pitchers in baseball.
Well...let me rephrase that: If we was told to list top 2 or 3 pitchers in baseball, lots would forget about this guy.
If he pitched for yanks,mets or even a team like stl.....we probably wouldnt forget him so easily !

Bigredfan#1
12-23-2006, 12:10 AM
No way shape or form would I trade Bailey unless I was just totally overwhelmed. The Reds would trade Griffey in a heartbeat if they could get anything in return.

vaticanplum
12-23-2006, 12:52 AM
I think Halladay is one of the most under-rated pitchers in baseball.
Well...let me rephrase that: If we was told to list top 2 or 3 pitchers in baseball, lots would forget about this guy.
If he pitched for yanks,mets or even a team like stl.....we probably wouldnt forget him so easily !

He's in my top three. With Oswalt and...well, I just can never get past Pedro of a few years ago. He was just so freaking good that it seems sacrilidge to replace him

So I guess my top two are Halladay and Oswalt. The Roys. if I could have at team with those two Roys at the top of the rotation, I would ask to die, because greater happiness would be unattainable in this physical life.

realistic
12-23-2006, 02:40 AM
Santana and maybe guys like Peavy or Beckett or another young guy who has had success if and only if they are guanenteed to be a red for the next 5+ years.

I like these names. Id give Bailey AND the other teams choice of any other 2 Reds minor leaguers for any one of these - with the 5 yr stipulation.

In realistic odds Bailey has a 1/4 chance of making it to the level those names are at. Then again he has a 1/12 chance of being better than all of them.

Those numbers are just my personal odds if i were making book on this..

markymark69
12-23-2006, 09:48 AM
Put me in the camp of making Homer Bailey untouchable. You just don't give up someone of his potential. If he's the real deal, then you don't need to trade him for Beckett, Peavy, Santana or anyone else, because he would be one of those type pitchers.

Dracodave
12-23-2006, 10:03 AM
He's in my top three. With Oswalt and...well, I just can never get past Pedro of a few years ago. He was just so freaking good that it seems sacrilidge to replace him.


I was really hoping the only pitcher we'd have to overpay to get would have been Pedro. Pedro's just a freak of nature, and one of the nicest guys I've ever meet in baseball.

IslandRed
12-23-2006, 11:37 AM
I concur with the folks that think no one's untouchable if the price is right.

Having said that, I'm also a believer that we should think long and hard about dealing guys whose talent, even if unproven at the major-league level, is undisputed and difficult to replace. There are a zillion reasons Bailey could end up on the could-have-been list. But there's also a chance that he becomes what we hope, which is a legitimate homegrown #1 starter. How long have we been wishing for one of those? How many times has it been said the Reds can't compete until we start developing our own pitching?

"But, what if we could trade him for a proven guy who's just as talented?" I'm all for that, but good luck making it happen. Generally speaking, dealing a guy like Bailey for a proven pitcher, we'd have to take a hit in one or more of three areas:

1. The pitcher's talent
2. How long we'd get to keep him
3. How much we'd have to pay him

Since it's not my money, I wouldn't let #3 stop me. But I wouldn't want to take much of a discount in terms of the pitcher's ability -- if I'm trading a guy I think will be an ace, the guy I get in return needs to sort of resemble one also. Nor am I all that interested in trading Bailey's six years for one or two of someone else. Not unless I can be convinced we're closer to a World Series run than I think.

Dracodave
12-23-2006, 12:16 PM
I think will be an ace, the guy I get in return needs to sort of resemble one also. Nor am I all that interested in trading Bailey's six years for one or two of someone else. Not unless I can be convinced we're closer to a World Series run than I think.

I concur that's why I mentioned Bonderman. Someone signed for years and decently cheap, with a track record that shows improvement in all area's. Thats the only way I give up Bailey.:thumbup:

Matt700wlw
12-23-2006, 12:19 PM
For an organization starved for good pitching, trading the best pitching prospect in I don't know how long would be kind of stupid.

If this team were one absolutely, positively 1 ace or 1 superstar bat away from a championship............maybe you do it. MAYBE.

They're not, though. They're a team that is focused on building through the minor leagues....

dougdirt
12-23-2006, 12:34 PM
I cant see trading away Homer. The only way to give up on his type of potential is to get someone who is a legit top of the line player, and teams with those guys probably arent trading them for prospects. As a small market team, we need pitching, and cheap good pitching at that. It doesnt seem to make much sense to me.

jmac
12-23-2006, 03:59 PM
For an organization starved for good pitching, trading the best pitching prospect in I don't know how long would be kind of stupid.

If this team were one absolutely, positively 1 ace or 1 superstar bat away from a championship............maybe you do it. MAYBE.

They're not, though. They're a team that is focused on building through the minor leagues....

this has sort of been my thinking.
some say trade Bailey for ????......prospects??....which bailey is
an established starter ????.....for maybe 1-2 years
then some say trade Harang rather than pay him the big contract.

if we have to trade our best prospect and our best starter...the middle ground appears to be more loshe's and hamilton's and haynes's.
I am just very hesitant to trade Bailey, Wood, or Cueto yet!
Course i'm not the GM either !

Krusty
12-23-2006, 06:18 PM
Would you trade Homer Bailey to Florida for LHP Dontrelle Willis?

Dracodave
12-23-2006, 06:20 PM
Would you trade Homer Bailey to Florida for LHP Dontrelle Willis?

No, unless theres further evidence that last year was D-Trains fluke year. I hold onto Bailey.:bang:

Krusty
12-23-2006, 06:25 PM
No, unless theres further evidence that last year was D-Trains fluke year. I hold onto Bailey.:bang:

I wouldn't call last season a fluke year for D-Train. He had a few rough outings but his ERA would rank behind Arroyo and Harang for Red starters.

http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=fla&playerID=425883

Dracodave
12-23-2006, 06:36 PM
I was more along the lines of is he going to be the 2 era pitcher or the 3 era? Was last year the fluke or was the year before? If he can re-do the magic of almost winning the CY award then yes trade for him, if he is going to back to being just a number three or worse than no..I'd say hold off.

Edd Roush
12-23-2006, 08:17 PM
From reading this thread, here is my opinion. Bailey should be considered "untouchable" unless he can be dealt for a more experienced, more accomplished "untouchable" starting pitcher another team. Pitching wins ballgames and I don't think it's smart to deal Homer unless you are going to be able to bring a more accomplished pitcher in return.

Dracodave
12-23-2006, 08:19 PM
From reading this thread, here is my opinion. Bailey should be considered "untouchable" unless he can be dealt for a more experienced, more accomplished "untouchable" starting pitcher another team. Pitching wins ballgames and I don't think it's smart to deal Homer unless you are going to be able to bring a more accomplished pitcher in return.

Thats been my point the entire thread. Look at what McCarthy brought the Whitesox in prospects.

You can imagine what a full scale rebuild of pitching could bring the Reds? I'd start shopping Arroyo.

Krusty
12-23-2006, 08:35 PM
Just look how the Marlins accumulated arms last offseason and how they came on the second half of the season.

Dracodave
12-23-2006, 08:38 PM
Just look how the Marlins accumulated arms last offseason and how they came on the second half of the season.

Didn't they win something like 20 out of 25 games? They full-scale rebuilt and did a EXCELLENT job. Kudos to their entire scouting department and GM there for pulling the trigger on great trades for great talent. Sure they maybe got what 1-2 players for each of their "stars"? But those 1-2 players had more talent then the six we got for Kearns/Lopez.