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reds44
12-22-2006, 11:50 AM
AP is reporting Ken Griffey Jr. broke his left hand in an accident at home, the Cincinnati Reds said. A story is upcoming.

:bang:

max venable
12-22-2006, 11:51 AM
nuh-uh!

reds44
12-22-2006, 11:52 AM
CINCINNATI … (AP) … Ken Griffey Jr. broke his left hand in an accident at home, the latest in a series of injuries that have hampered the career of the All-Star outfielder.

Griffey's throwing hand will be in a hard cast for three weeks, then will be re-examined, Reds spokesman Rob Butcher said Friday.

Butcher said he could not say when or how the accident occurred because Griffey did not authorize any more details to be released. Butcher also could not say whether Griffey would be ready when spring training starts in mid-February.


D'oh

max venable
12-22-2006, 11:52 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2706196


Ken Griffey Jr. has had more than his share of injury problems. But this time the Cincinnati Reds outfielder has suffered an injury off the field.

The team said Friday that Griffey suffered a broken left hand in an accident at home.


Griffey will remain in a hard cast until he is re-examined in about three weeks, the team said.

Red Leader
12-22-2006, 11:54 AM
I'm blaming the Nintendo Wii for sure!

MartyFan
12-22-2006, 11:55 AM
Now playing 1B for your Cincinatti Reds, JUNIOR GRIFFEY

Spring~Fields
12-22-2006, 11:57 AM
Note to Wayne:

Wayne add some talented depth to the team in the event that something goes less than perfect, and replacement parts are needed.

Kc61
12-22-2006, 11:57 AM
It's early, but 100 losses in '07 is looking like a pretty reasonable guess right now. With a diluted offense, Griffey on the field would be helpful.

Timetable for Griffey? Opening Day; June 1; All-Star Break?

Red Leader
12-22-2006, 11:58 AM
Note to Wayne:

Wayne add some depth to the team in the event that something goes less than perfect, and replacement parts are needed.

I smell a 2 prospects to the Royals for Joey Gathright trade.

Wait, he's too young. Is Kenny Lofton available, or has he already been signed by the Giants?

westofyou
12-22-2006, 12:01 PM
It's early, but 100 losses in '07 is looking like a pretty reasonable guess right now.

Timetable for Griffey? Opening Day; June 1; All-Star Break?

Really?

That declining OB% and range in CF translated into 15-20 extra wins?

Can't see it at all.

westofyou
12-22-2006, 12:01 PM
Wait, he's too young. Is Kenny Lofton available, or has he already been signed by the Giants?Rangers

westofyou
12-22-2006, 12:02 PM
FWIW this is the tool that the Reds needed to facilitate the move.

shredda2000
12-22-2006, 12:03 PM
FWIW this is the tool that the Reds needed to facilitate the move.

Maybe this is how Griffey will "allow" the move to the corner outfield with actually "allowing" the move...:thumbup:

pedro
12-22-2006, 12:04 PM
He was probably patting Wayne on the back for the Conine acquisition.

15fan
12-22-2006, 12:05 PM
Junior is doing an amazing impersonation of Elijah Price in Unbreakable.

Sigh.

reds44
12-22-2006, 12:07 PM
I smell a 2 prospects to the Royals for Joey Gathright trade.

Wait, he's too young. Is Kenny Lofton available, or has he already been signed by the Giants?

Rickey Henderson is still available.

Red Leader
12-22-2006, 12:07 PM
Rickey Henderson is still available.

Score!

deltachi8
12-22-2006, 12:08 PM
FWIW this is the tool that the Reds needed to facilitate the move.

Whats that saying about silver linings?

reds44
12-22-2006, 12:10 PM
Maybe this is how Griffey will "allow" the move to the corner outfield with actually "allowing" the move...:thumbup:
Hopefully you're right, but he still needs to get healthy. I can't handle Jeff Conine in RF everyday. If he moves to RF, that insures we will never see the Dunn/Griffey/Conine OF. Now that would be something.

ochre
12-22-2006, 12:11 PM
Junior is doing an amazing impersonation of Elijah Price in Unbreakable.

Sigh.
Yep. The Reds needed something more Jules Winnfield'ish.

max venable
12-22-2006, 12:19 PM
Rickey Henderson is still available.

And Jose Canseco.

reds44
12-22-2006, 12:19 PM
And Jose Canseco.
And Sammy Sosa.

Hey, he's younger then Conine.

RBA
12-22-2006, 12:22 PM
And Deion Sanders.

Kc61
12-22-2006, 12:25 PM
Really?

That declining OB% and range in CF translated into 15-20 extra wins?

Can't see it at all.

I'm exaggerating (a bit) when I say 100 losses. But the offense now needs Griffey. It is kind of thin.

I'll feel a lot better if they add the right pitcher.

reds44
12-22-2006, 12:27 PM
And Deion Sanders.

http://espn-att.starwave.com/classic/2000/1127/photo/a_sanders2_i.jpg
It's Prime Time! Prime Time!

Spring~Fields
12-22-2006, 12:32 PM
I smell a 2 prospects to the Royals for Joey Gathright trade.

Wait, he's too young. Is Kenny Lofton available, or has he already been signed by the Giants?

Never thought of that!

Is the bearded fat lady still working?

traderumor
12-22-2006, 12:49 PM
It was about this time last year Weathers broke a finger on his throwing hand playing catch at home. I don't see how 3 weeks in a cast at this point does much to even keep him from not seeing ST action, unless I'm missing something. Of course, there could be complications like Kearns had, I suppose.

BCubb2003
12-22-2006, 12:54 PM
Paul O'Neill is probably still in decent shape.

RFS62
12-22-2006, 01:06 PM
FWIW this is the tool that the Reds needed to facilitate the move.


Exactly.

redsfan30
12-22-2006, 01:15 PM
I don't see how breaking his hand is the ammo the Reds need to make him switch positions.

Tearing a leg muscle, yes....breaking a hand? Doubt it.

RedFanAlways1966
12-22-2006, 01:35 PM
It was about this time last year Weathers broke a finger on his throwing hand playing catch at home. I don't see how 3 weeks in a cast at this point does much to even keep him from not seeing ST action, unless I'm missing something. Of course, there could be complications like Kearns had, I suppose.

My thoughts too. The human hand has a lot of bones in it. When the info. is limited, like it is in this case so far, this could mean a minimal injury (minor break to a small bone). However, on the flip-side, it could be a bigger break. One thing we all know is that both hands are very important to swinging a bat and hitting a baseball. Therefore, it must heal properly and there must not be a rush to get him back. The timing of this is the only good news... it should allow enough time for it to heal (if not too serious of a break) before ST games start.

Most accidents happen around the home. I have broken bones in my house a few times. Never meant for it to happen and I was not doing anything "stupid". Stuff happens and you tend to spend most time around the house. I hope Junior has a speedy recovery and all works out in the end.

Always Red
12-22-2006, 01:36 PM
I don't see how breaking his hand is the ammo the Reds need to make him switch positions.

Tearing a leg muscle, yes....breaking a hand? Doubt it.

well, it's an excuse, one that works well for the Reds, and one that saves face for Junior.

With his legs and his age, he would have been injured out there after 25 games anyway.

westofyou
12-22-2006, 01:41 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, bottom hand is the power hand on a swing correct?

redsfan30
12-22-2006, 01:50 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, bottom hand is the power hand on a swing correct?

It is, but him being a lefty his left hand is the top hand.

Red Leader
12-22-2006, 01:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, bottom hand is the power hand on a swing correct?

With a lefty, the left hand is the hand that pushes the bat through, the hand that generates the power. It starts as the top hand, but through the swing, it is the trailing hand. The right hand simply pulls the bat through and guides it. If I was lefty and I had a choice, I'd rather break the right hand.

http://nathanevangelista.com/wp-content/uploads/capt.ohab10104051926.cubs_reds_baseball_ohab101.jp g


I guess the somewhat good news in this, is that, of all of the pictures I've looked at of Griffey swinging, it looks like his left hand comes off the bat on his backswing about 90% of the time. That might prevent him from re-injuring it if it truly does not heal 100%.


http://www.cincinnati.com/postcard/img/photos/griffey_homerB.jpg

westofyou
12-22-2006, 01:57 PM
It is, but him being a lefty his left hand is the top hand.

Right, then the left hand is the hand used to stop the acceleration of the swing if the need arises. Then it really is going to matter what bone he broke in his hand and how long it keeps him from swinging. Also playing into this is his history, which shows a slow path in recovery and a high incidence of cascade injuries from the initial ailment.

redsmetz
12-22-2006, 01:59 PM
Paul O'Neill is probably still in decent shape.

The way my wife was reacting to seeing him at a restaurant, I can attest to that.

RANDY IN INDY
12-22-2006, 02:04 PM
With a lefty, the left hand is the hand that pushes the bat through, the hand that generates the power. It starts as the top hand, but through the swing, it is the trailing hand. The right hand simply pulls the bat through and guides it. If I was lefty and I had a choice, I'd rather break the right hand.

Griffey is not a classic "Top Hand" hitter.

RANDY IN INDY
12-22-2006, 02:11 PM
Griffey is a Charlie Lau type hitter. The left hand comes off the bat to allow maximum extension and not slow the bat down coming through the zone. When Griffey is going bad, he is rolling the left hand over, pulling off, and hitting a lot of ground balls to second base. Matt and I have studied his swing in depth and have tried to copy a lot of what he does. I am a believer in the Lau theory and believe that a dominant top hand is not good for most hitters as it takes away a lot of the "lift" that you need to generate backspin and "carry" on the baseball. When my son starts going bad, it usually has to do with too much top hand.

In the picture of Matt in the avatar, his top hand is just getting ready to release. Notice the flat hands at impact. (Bottom hand down, top hand up) That is one of the keys to the Lau swing, and any good swing. A little too much either way and you start having problems.

RANDY IN INDY
12-22-2006, 02:18 PM
westofyou hit it on the head when he said the problem would be when Griffey needed to check-swing.

Red Leader
12-22-2006, 02:22 PM
westofyou hit it on the head when he said the problem would be when Griffey needed to check-swing.

yeah, that guys is like all smart and stuff. ;)

RFS62
12-22-2006, 02:48 PM
Nice analysis Randy.

For a lefty hitter, the right hand is pulling the bat through the hitting zone, just like a good golf swing.

A lot of hitters try to duplicate the roll over they see on a good hitters follow through and it robs power with an early release.

remdog
12-22-2006, 02:57 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, bottom hand is the power hand on a swing correct?

What? There isn't a stat or historical article about this? Or maybe you don't remember from the last time you played? :) Anyway, your point about checking a swing is correct and possibly very significant, depending where the break was and how severe. We've seen cases of hitters being completely ineffective and, in some cases, even re-breaking their hand trying to check their swing after breaking a bone there. (There must be a historical about that somewhere! :) )

Rem

redsupport
12-22-2006, 03:01 PM
since griffey had about 11 rbis's in august, it would be difficult to assess whether the hand break decreases his effectiveness. He needs to put on the sent out to pasture list

remdog
12-22-2006, 03:02 PM
Terrific analysis Randy. Personally, I was always amazed by Charlie Lau---in my mind he may have been the best hitting coach of my lifetime. OTOH, there are those that contend that his system screwed up a lot of natural swings. :dunno:

At any rate, if this team is to go anywhere this year, they need Jr. in there for 125-135 games at his best. I certainly hope this is a minor thing.

Rem

westofyou
12-22-2006, 04:25 PM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=113&PHPSESSID=75e30124126bf0d536f763b5d79a9750


Ken Griffey broke his hand today.

And that’s all we know. Why? Because the new CBA has an interesting provision, one that went into effect after the Winter Meetings. The new HIPAA policy does not allow any medical information to be divulged except a) at the consent of both the player and the team and b) by a designated member of the team. In most cases, this will be the team spokesmen, but in other cases you may see this as a GM or AGM.

As this new regulation takes hold, it will be interesting to see the public stance of teams. Will some try to go NHL-style on us and say “hand injury” while others will realize that there’s no advantage to be gained and give better, more consistent information? I think it will be a mix, but smart teams might look to the Brewers. They’ve been ahead of the pack in a lot of things, but they’ve operated this way for years. AGM Gord Ash is the de facto medical director, leaving Dr. Bill Raasch and head trainer Roger Caplinger and their staffs to simply do their jobs. Ash understands the process and the press enough to give clear, concise information. Look back at how they handled the Ben Sheets series of injuries. Along the way, they never hid the process, never lied, never tried to cloud the water, and in the end, did a nice job getting Sheets back to effectiveness.

And if you think this ends next season’s “Guess The Griff” injury pool, check your calendars. The 2007 version doesn’t start until training camp.

Chip R
12-22-2006, 04:28 PM
And that’s all we know. Why? Because the new CBA has an interesting provision, one that went into effect after the Winter Meetings. The new HIPAA policy does not allow any medical information to be divulged except a) at the consent of both the player and the team and b) by a designated member of the team. In most cases, this will be the team spokesmen, but in other cases you may see this as a GM or AGM.



Oh, this is going to be fun when a Reds player gets injured and they won't give out any info on the player. You think there was rampant speculation before? :eek:

Always Red
12-22-2006, 04:46 PM
ahh....the old HIPAA privacy laws, the only vestige of Hilary's Health Care Plan to make it to law.

No one is allowed to say anything about anyone's medical condition, even the fact that they were in your office, without the patient's consent.

Actually it's a good law, unenforceable, but still good, as it protects the patients privacy.

I've often wondered why it didn't pertain to professional athletes as well!

Strikes Out Looking
12-22-2006, 05:03 PM
Oh, this is going to be fun when a Reds player gets injured and they won't give out any info on the player. You think there was rampant speculation before? :eek:

Really not much difference in information on the extent of the injury here than Jrs last two injurys. On his day to day foot problem in late 2005 and his day to day boo-boo toe in late 2006, the public was never told the extent of the injury and only knew how they happened because they took place on the field.

George Foster
12-22-2006, 05:05 PM
It was about this time last year Weathers broke a finger on his throwing hand playing catch at home. I don't see how 3 weeks in a cast at this point does much to even keep him from not seeing ST action, unless I'm missing something. Of course, there could be complications like Kearns had, I suppose.

Your talking about a guy who missed the last month of the season during a divisional race with a dislocated toe. Why won't he "allow" the Reds to tell the public how he broke his hand?

Blondini
12-22-2006, 05:10 PM
It's early, but 100 losses in '07 is looking like a pretty reasonable guess right now. With a diluted offense, Griffey on the field would be helpful.

Timetable for Griffey? Opening Day; June 1; All-Star Break?

All-Star hiatus sounds better. "Break" is a baaaad word used in the same paragraph as "Griffey". :cry:

westofyou
12-22-2006, 05:14 PM
Your talking about a guy who missed the last month of the season during a divisional race with a dislocated toe. Why won't he "allow" the Reds to tell the public how he broke his hand?

Why does it matter to you?

He broke his hand in his own home, let the man fall apart in peace.

Chip R
12-22-2006, 05:17 PM
Really not much difference in information on the extent of the injury here than Jrs last two injurys. On his day to day foot problem in late 2005 and his day to day boo-boo toe in late 2006, the public was never told the extent of the injury and only knew how they happened because they took place on the field.


I'm not necessarily talking about just Jr. Let's say around the middle of May Ryan Freel does something to his knee - God forbid. The Reds come out and say he hurt his knee but won't say whether he tore an ACL, sprained it or just bruised it. The speculation around here is going to be wild. People are going to want to know if they are hiding something because they aren't getting any info. It's like when DanO was here and he wouldn't say anything about any possible trades. The less he said, the more crazy people became. Before, when the Reds gave out medical info, it was either the Reds are lying or Doc K is incompetent but there was information out there so we could at least speculate based on what we knew. Now, if there is no info released, we are going to speculate based on rumor and innuendo. Mark my words, it will be crazy.

KYRedsFan
12-22-2006, 05:40 PM
This really shouldn't be a big deal. If they're not doing surgery, it likely doesn't involve a joint and wasn't too displaced. Really, for a player on a normal franchise, this should heal fine relatively quick :devil:

Larkin Fan
12-22-2006, 05:45 PM
This really shouldn't be a big deal. If they're not doing surgery, it likely doesn't involve a joint and wasn't too displaced. Really, for a player on a normal franchise, this should heal fine relatively quick :devil:


Just out of curiousity, how many more years until you can take over as chief of the Reds' medical staff, KYRedsFan? ;)

Chip R
12-22-2006, 05:46 PM
Just out of curiousity, how many more years until you can take over as chief of the Reds' medical staff, KYRedsFan? ;)


After you retire or leave for a better gig, of course. :beerme:

KYRedsFan
12-22-2006, 05:49 PM
Just out of curiousity, how many more years until you can take over as chief of the Reds' medical staff, KYRedsFan? ;)


Oh yeah, it's all coming together. 2 more years of residency, then a year of sports training, and then it's see ya Doc Hollywood ;)

RANDY IN INDY
12-22-2006, 07:33 PM
Just out of curiousity, how many more years until you can take over as chief of the Reds' medical staff, KYRedsFan? ;)

Good to see you 'round these parts, Larkin Fan. Merry Christmas!:beerme:

vaticanplum
12-22-2006, 08:19 PM
Well, crap.

KoryMac5
12-23-2006, 12:12 AM
We could sign Sosa in case things don't heal on time. :shocked:

Aronchis
12-23-2006, 04:30 AM
Jay Bruce's development can't come fast enough.

GAC
12-23-2006, 04:36 AM
Jay Bruce's development can't come fast enough.

I am really counting (hoping) on that. I followed him last year, and he did quite well. I hope he continues to progress.

GAC
12-23-2006, 04:37 AM
He broke his hand in his own home, let the man fall apart in peace.

I think peace is spelled with an "i". :mooner:

GAC
12-23-2006, 04:38 AM
Oh, this is going to be fun when a Reds player gets injured and they won't give out any info on the player. You think there was rampant speculation before? :eek:

Ballplayers are not allowed to have private lies.

It's a wonder any of them have kids with all those cameras in the room! :evil:

Reds Fanatic
12-23-2006, 09:56 AM
According to Hal McCoy's article in today's Dayton Daily News Junior broke his hand while playing with his kids.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2006/12/23/ddn122306reds.html

Highlifeman21
12-23-2006, 12:08 PM
According to Hal McCoy's article in today's Dayton Daily News Junior broke his hand while playing with his kids.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/sports/pro/reds/2006/12/23/ddn122306reds.html

I dunno what's more pitiful, Hal's writing, or the editorials following this story on the DDN website.

I vote Hal's writing, by a nose with a photo finish.

Chip R
12-23-2006, 12:47 PM
I dunno what's more pitiful, Hal's writing, or the editorials following this story on the DDN website.

I vote Hal's writing, by a nose with a photo finish.


I thought "janet's" comments were interesting. :help:

RedFanAlways1966
12-23-2006, 12:59 PM
I dunno what's more pitiful, Hal's writing, or the editorials following this story on the DDN website.

I vote Hal's writing, by a nose with a photo finish.

How about we add one more choice to the most pitiful thing...

(a) Hal's writing.
(b) Editorials following this story.
(c) Cheap shots at Hal regardless of what he writes.

I vote (c) by a looooonnnnngggggssssshhhhooootttt.

jimbo
12-23-2006, 01:44 PM
How about we add one more choice to the most pitiful thing...

(a) Hal's writing.
(b) Editorials following this story.
(c) Cheap shots at Hal regardless of what he writes.

I vote (c) by a looooonnnnngggggssssshhhhooootttt.

I take (c) on that one. Not even close. :thumbdown

Super_Barry11
12-23-2006, 01:49 PM
I saw Hal at the Dayton Mall a couple of days ago. It was pretty exciting. (Well, it was for me, anyway.) :)

Highlifeman21
12-23-2006, 02:26 PM
How about we add one more choice to the most pitiful thing...

(a) Hal's writing.
(b) Editorials following this story.
(c) Cheap shots at Hal regardless of what he writes.

I vote (c) by a looooonnnnngggggssssshhhhooootttt.


Not a cheap shot at all. The man is past his prime, he needs to hang it up soon. I don't know how his editors can let so many mistakes go to print.

I thought Hal used to be great in his day. Granted, he was no Jim Murray, but there's a reason Hal's deservedly won numerous accolades for his prose.

I just attribute the Hal of today to the way Willie Mays left the game.

Hang it up, Hal.

jimbo
12-23-2006, 02:54 PM
The man is past his prime, he needs to hang it up soon.

That is just your opinion.......not a fact. The fact is that he is still widely popular amongst Reds fans. If you don't like his material, then simply do not read it. It just seems that some here have to constantly remind us all how they feel about McCoy whenever his name comes up by resorting to........yes, cheap shots.

Highlifeman21
12-23-2006, 04:15 PM
I still can't get my head around the fact that the Conine acquisition was mostly likely a result of the Griffey injury.

Our FO had to know something was wrong with Griffey's hand, and then went out and obtained Jeff Conine as a replacement.

If this is the case, I have a feeling we'll see far too much of Conine in the OF in 2007.

Ltlabner
12-23-2006, 04:16 PM
If this is the case, I have a feeling we'll see far too much of Conine in the OF in 2007.

How do you get that blue smiley face that blows chuncks all over the place?

Because if this comes to pass (and it's only speculation) I'll be needing to use it. Alot.

Nice conspiricy theory by the way.

Redsland
12-23-2006, 04:50 PM
I still can't get my head around the fact that the Conine acquisition was mostly likely a result of the Griffey injury.

You've got it backward. Griffey heard about Wayne's latest acquisition and threw a punch at the wall.

:)

Highlifeman21
12-23-2006, 06:01 PM
How do you get that blue smiley face that blows chuncks all over the place?

Because if this comes to pass (and it's only speculation) I'll be needing to use it. Alot.

Nice conspiricy theory by the way.


The timing is just too convenient for me to overlook.

While I hope Conine will only face LHP while playing 1B, I unfortunately see him somehow ending up the everyday RF.

Ron Madden
12-23-2006, 08:19 PM
The timing is just too convenient for me to overlook.

While I hope Conine will only face LHP while playing 1B, I unfortunately see him somehow ending up the everyday RF.

This is my main problem with having guys like Castro, Clayton and a 41 year old Conine on the roster... If they are available Jerry will play them far far too often.

Yachtzee
12-23-2006, 08:44 PM
This is my main problem with having guys like Castro, Clayton and a 41 year old Conine on the roster... If they are available Jerry will play them far far too often.

Idle vets are the devil's playthings.

Ron Madden
12-23-2006, 08:55 PM
Idle vets are the devil's playthings.

Ya really think Jerry's the devil? :evil:

redsupport
12-24-2006, 02:01 AM
keep dreaming about the hometown hero, let me know whathe has done for the reds since his acquisition

Edskin
12-24-2006, 12:09 PM
The "Griffey era" in Cincy has been excruciating for all parties.

oneupper
12-24-2006, 12:36 PM
Junior broke his hand opening a can of worms. :eek:

westofyou
12-24-2006, 12:40 PM
Junior broke his hand opening a can of worms. :eek:

Nah, it was opening a bottle of Whine.

redsfanmia
12-24-2006, 08:32 PM
I'm exaggerating (a bit) when I say 100 losses. But the offense now needs Griffey. It is kind of thin.

Are you really exaggerating? I think 100 losses is a real possibility.

vaticanplum
01-01-2007, 01:19 PM
:)

http://www.progressiveboink.com/dugout/archive/b42.html

RedFanAlways1966
01-01-2007, 01:42 PM
Are you really exaggerating? I think 100 losses is a real possibility.

If so, they'd be only the 2nd National League team to do it 5 years. The 2004 Arizona D-Backs finished 50-111.

Losing 100 games is not an easy thing to do. Losing 90 is easier. Since 2003 there have been 14 NL teams lose between 90-99 games. As a matter of fact only three NL teams have lost 96 or more games since 2003: the 2006 Cubs (96), the 2004 D-Backs (111) & the 2003 Padres (98).

With that being said, I'd have to vote against 100 losses. Anything is possible, especially with greater salary disparity between teams, but 100 losses for any team is a rare thing.

redsupport
01-01-2007, 01:49 PM
I will tell you one thing that is not possible, it is griffey performing at a high caliber level and staying off the disabled list