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Dom Heffner
12-23-2006, 03:38 PM
So I go onto iTunes to buy a few new U2 tracks I've been hearing and guess what? Those guys make them "Album Only" purchases.

So, if I want them, I basically have to spend at least $10 to get them.

That's all good and well, but I already own the other songs on the album.

They basically punish their long-time fans who have their catalog.

You know, Bono wants to help the poor, and I know one guy who has $10 more in his pocket because he's no longer a fan.

Ltlabner
12-23-2006, 03:40 PM
A celeb who wants to tell us we should feal guilty if we don't give all our money away but is out trying to get theirs?

Shocking.....

Dom Heffner
12-23-2006, 03:46 PM
He's such a self-righteous jerk. I'm just over the guy.

Falls City Beer
12-23-2006, 03:47 PM
Don't the record companies make these decisions?

Dom Heffner
12-23-2006, 03:52 PM
Don't the record companies make these decisions?


They might, but I'm sure they could do something. It's not like this is their first record and they have no pull.

I normally don't mind, but I already bought the other stuff. I don't need two copies of "Where the Streets Have No name," just so I can have the honor of having the new stuff.

I realize bands have done this before with greatest hits sets, but this technology wasn't around then.

Falls City Beer
12-23-2006, 03:59 PM
I don't begrudge the guy turning a buck. He gives more than his fair share back. Unlike a lot of people.

Dom Heffner
12-23-2006, 04:13 PM
He gives more than his fair share back.

And so do the fans who already bought their stuff the first time.

I already bought it once, so I have to give again because this guy's a charitable dude?

Maybe I should buy two cars from Ford, you know, the guys who run that place gave $3 million dollars to the National Diabetes Foundation.

Highlifeman21
12-23-2006, 04:23 PM
You mean you don't download your musical illegally?

I didn't know such people existed.

I guess cross that off the list of unicorns, leprechauns, the Loch Ness Monster, and Bigfoot.

Dom Heffner
12-23-2006, 04:58 PM
You mean you don't download your musical illegally?


I've paid for everything I've gotten. Sometimes even twice when I wanted to replace my cassettes with CDs.

I'm not paying this clown again for two or three new songs.

kaldaniels
12-23-2006, 05:12 PM
Ummm...ok. Does that make every artist who ever produced a greatest hits record with a couple newbies tacked on a scrooge. Until recently you had to buy the greatest hits album anyway to get the new stuff . Just because we are in the digital age doen't make Bono, one of the most generous, well-doing, musicians out there a scumbag. Greatest hits albums are fine with me, and if you're a diehard you buy the stuff, its a part of life. Welcome to the music business.

MrCinatit
12-23-2006, 05:44 PM
I am thinking it is the record company.
Look for anything recorded on the old Apple lable - They Beatles, Badfinger. They are either not available, or we are charged to listen.
Remarkably popular groups like The Beatles, U2, Zepplin and the Stones seem to suffer the same affliction.

max venable
12-23-2006, 09:33 PM
Honestly, boy, I have a hard time with anyone calling Bono a scrooge. Dude gives tons of time and $$$ to fight AIDS in Africa. He's also involved in a number of other charities. Too bad he gets labeled a "scrooge" in this forum when, unlike so many other celebs, he actually cares about the poor and afflicted in the world.

Just mark me down for someone who supports Bono. I'll gladly pay more music from a dude that's making a difference in the world instead of "wasting" it all on self-indulgence. But that's just me.

Razor Shines
12-23-2006, 10:04 PM
Honestly, boy, I have a hard time with anyone calling Bono a scrooge. Dude gives tons of time and $$$ to fight AIDS in Africa. He's also involved in a number of other charities. Too bad he gets labeled a "scrooge" in this forum when, unlike so many other celebs, he actually cares about the poor and afflicted in the world.

Just mark me down for someone who supports Bono. I'll gladly pay more music from a dude that's making a difference in the world instead of "wasting" it all on self-indulgence. But that's just me.

Self-indulgence like flying his hat first class across the country? Like moving his assets into the Netherlands where the taxes are lower while asking Ireland to raise taxes to provide more aid to Africa?

"I share Bono's desire to see more resources devoted to Ireland Aid but it is more difficult to make a case for it if everyone is not willing to be part of the social contract that stipulates that everybody should pay their fair share in what is a low-tax country."

-Irish Labour's Finance Spokeswoman Joan Burton

max venable
12-23-2006, 10:57 PM
On second thought...Yeah...you're right...he's a worthless scrooge.

Dom Heffner
12-23-2006, 11:52 PM
Ummm...ok. Does that make every artist who ever produced a greatest hits record with a couple newbies tacked on a scrooge.

The greatest hits packages were mostly beofre the age of downloading one song at a time.

When they were on CD, those were fine because you may have been duplicating the songs but at least you got everything on one CD plus the new stuff.

We no longer live in that time. The whole point of the iPod is to put things on that I want. If I already have something, why would I want it twice when it offers no advantage?

To me, you do not force people to buy something they already own just to get 3 dollars worth of music.

My problem isn't that he's charitable- he wants me to finance it for him. I realize this is the record company, but it's not their name I'm clicking on when I buy it.

It's still a crappy thing to do to long-time fans. Maybe I should just have twenty copies of "One" so Bono can give some money away to third world countries. Heck, make it 30.

It's not like I'm wanting the songs for free- I want to buy them, I just don't want to pay the extra 7 dollars for songs I already own.

Bono wants to bring technology to everybody but when it might cost him some money, he wants to play by the old rules.

George Foster
12-24-2006, 12:28 AM
The greatest hits packages were mostly beofre the age of downloading one song at a time.

When they were on CD, those were fine because you may have been duplicating the songs but at least you got everything on one CD plus the new stuff.

We no longer live in that time. The whole point of the iPod is to put things on that I want. If I already have something, why would I want it twice when it offers no advantage?

To me, you do not force people to buy something they already own just to get 3 dollars worth of music.

My problem isn't that he's charitable- he wants me to finance it for him. I realize this is the record company, but it's not their name I'm clicking on when I buy it.

It's still a crappy thing to do to long-time fans. Maybe I should just have twenty copies of "One" so Bono can give some money away to third world countries. Heck, make it 30.

It's not like I'm wanting the songs for free- I want to buy them, I just don't want to pay the extra 7 dollars for songs I already own.

Bono wants to bring technology to everybody but when it might cost him some money, he wants to play by the old rules.

I have to agree with Dom on this one. We don't see eye to eye on a lot of social issues but to me Bono is all bark and no bite. It's not like Bono is putting out a lot of top 20 hits. Only his real fans want to down load his new stuff. It is a punch in the gut to his fans not to allow them to do so without buying the entire CD.
From a business stand point, with so many music lovers having MP 3 players, it would make more since to make your money a buck 50 or so at a time. Seems to me you would actually make more money. I'm really not that educated about how the money is split, but I would think that Bono would get a decent cut of it.

savafan
12-24-2006, 02:08 AM
I think maybe this is one of those cases where, if there were enough U2 fans who felt the same way as you Dom, perhaps a letter writing campaign could make a difference.

Ltlabner
12-24-2006, 08:41 AM
My problem isn't that he's charitable- he wants me to finance it for him.

That's the problem with most celeb do-gooder types. It's easy to give away other peoples money. I respect the ones who quietly go about giving to charities and do so without the spot light or attempted guilt trips on the general public. Those folks are the ones who should earn our respect.

But the ones who want to soak up the spotlight while doing charity work AND want you to finance there alleged good works really are just doing it for the attention.

If you harp on other people for being "too wealthy" and not sharing ala Bono, but spend a lot of your time making sure you have yours, you are the diffinition of a hypocrite IMO.

Falls City Beer
12-24-2006, 04:14 PM
That's the problem with most celeb do-gooder types. It's easy to give away other peoples money. I respect the ones who quietly go about giving to charities and do so without the spot light or attempted guilt trips on the general public. Those folks are the ones who should earn our respect.

But the ones who want to soak up the spotlight while doing charity work AND want you to finance there alleged good works really are just doing it for the attention.

If you harp on other people for being "too wealthy" and not sharing ala Bono, but spend a lot of your time making sure you have yours, you are the diffinition of a hypocrite IMO.

If you don't speak up about charity, no one gives. That's the conundrum with charity/aid--you have to talk about it.

We all appreciate modesty, but let's face it, unless most Joe Punchclocks are guilted into it (by church, Bono, whomever), they WON'T give. Nature of the American beast.

Raisor
12-25-2006, 09:03 AM
I heart Bono.

Ltlabner
12-25-2006, 10:36 AM
If you don't speak up about charity, no one gives. That's the conundrum with charity/aid--you have to talk about it.

We all appreciate modesty, but let's face it, unless most Joe Punchclocks are guilted into it (by church, Bono, whomever), they WON'T give. Nature of the American beast.

On some level I agree with you FCB. Then again, after the Tsumani in SA Asia a few years ago, there was a massive public responce around the world with support in terms of money, time and effort. There were no telethons, Madonna, Oprah and Rosie weren't out telling us we are slime if we don't give and there wern't any real celeb outcries that I remember. Those folks came on board as the scope of the disaster was realized but the public generally responded with little prompting.

Falls City Beer
12-25-2006, 10:42 AM
On some level I agree with you FCB. Then again, after the Tsumani in SA Asia a few years ago, there was a massive public responce around the world with support in terms of money, time and effort. There were no telethons, Madonna, Oprah and Rosie weren't out telling us we are slime if we don't give and there wern't any real celeb outcries that I remember. Those folks came on board as the scope of the disaster was realized but the public generally responded with little prompting.

That's because the suffering was front and center--on 24/7, and frankly the world could not ignore it.

RedsManRick
12-25-2006, 11:52 AM
All bark and no bite? I understand how Bono can rub people the wrong way, but the dude has done more positive things with his celebrity than pretty much anyone else I can think of. Is he Mother Teresa? Of course not. He knows that he's a rock star first and doesn't pretend to be a saint. But do you have any idea how much 3rd world debt forgiveness Bono has a had a key role in making happen? While many celebs are out there attending galas and writing checks that amount to pennies for them, Bono spends a ton of his time lobbying on behalf of otherwise unrepresented populations.

I'm not in to hero worship, but of all the artists who put out a greatest hits album with a few new songs, I'd venture to guess that Bono has done more positive in the world than most.

kaldaniels
12-26-2006, 12:09 AM
Good post Rick...I had thought about going off on a tangent explaining how Bono statistically speaking is surely a more positive force in the universe than any of us could ever be (House fans know what I am talking about). But you summed it up nicely. Thanks.


All bark and no bite? I understand how Bono can rub people the wrong way, but the dude has done more positive things with his celebrity than pretty much anyone else I can think of. Is he Mother Teresa? Of course not. He knows that he's a rock star first and doesn't pretend to be a saint. But do you have any idea how much 3rd world debt forgiveness Bono has a had a key role in making happen? While many celebs are out there attending galas and writing checks that amount to pennies for them, Bono spends a ton of his time lobbying on behalf of otherwise unrepresented populations.

I'm not in to hero worship, but of all the artists who put out a greatest hits album with a few new songs, I'd venture to guess that Bono has done more positive in the world than most.

Ltlabner
12-26-2006, 06:18 AM
But do you have any idea how much 3rd world debt forgiveness Bono has a had a key role in making happen? While many celebs are out there attending galas and writing checks that amount to pennies for them, Bono spends a ton of his time lobbying on behalf of otherwise unrepresented populations.

This is the crux of my beef with Bono. He's spending his time telling other people what to do with their money. Do this, cancel that, give this.

But when it's his turn to be told what to do with his money, it's a different story. He moves his assets to reduce his tax bill.

I think his goals are admirable. And I don't have a problem with people trying to reduce their tax exposure. But if you are going to tell other people how they should manage their money, don't get in a snot when its your turn to be told what to do with your money.

CrackerJack
12-26-2006, 11:20 AM
I've paid for everything I've gotten. Sometimes even twice when I wanted to replace my cassettes with CDs.

I'm not paying this clown again for two or three new songs.

Although their newest music isn't really worth paying for IMO any ways.

RedsManRick
12-26-2006, 12:32 PM
This is the crux of my beef with Bono. He's spending his time telling other people what to do with their money. Do this, cancel that, give this.

But when it's his turn to be told what to do with his money, it's a different story. He moves his assets to reduce his tax bill.

I think his goals are admirable. And I don't have a problem with people trying to reduce their tax exposure. But if you are going to tell other people how they should manage their money, don't get in a snot when its your turn to be told what to do with your money.

Really? What evidence do you have of this? I'm not saying I know otherwise, but that's a pretty significant claim. I would also argue, that his influence is worth as much, if not more than any check he could write. There's an argument to be made that the debt relief doesn't happen without him -- and that relief has totaled hundreds of billions from not just the U.S., but around the world.

There's more than one way to have a positive influence in the world.

Dom Heffner
12-26-2006, 01:02 PM
But when it's his turn to be told what to do with his money, it's a different story. He moves his assets to reduce his tax bill.


I guess Bono could argue that if he has more money in his pocket he can make sure it gets to other's as well.

All of us on here move around our money to pay less in taxes, I hope.

Giving to the government isn't charity, unless Ireland aids others with that money.

Even so, I'm not sure it's a good thing to do that.

My beef is more with iTunes and the label, I guess.

Ltlabner
12-26-2006, 01:19 PM
Really? What evidence do you have of this? I'm not saying I know otherwise, but that's a pretty significant claim.

There's an argument to be made that the debt relief doesn't happen without him --

Evidence of this his tax dodges....

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/norton%20hits%20out%20at%20bonos%20tax%20dodge_100 8508

http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&refer=home&sid=aef6sR60oDgM

By the way, the the champions of debt relief were able to manage before Bono came on the scene. His actions, while noble, are certinally not revolutionary. Nor can an argument be made that it wouldn't take place with out Bono's involvement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_relief

Here is the relevant quote...
Debt relief for heavily indebted and underdeveloped developing countries was the subject in the 1990s of a campaign by a broad coalition of development NGOs, Christian organisations and others, under the banner of Jubilee 2000. This campaign, involving, for example, demonstrations at the 1998 G8 meeting in Birmingham, was successful in pushing debt relief onto the agenda of Western governments and international organisations such as the International Monetary Fund and World Bank.

Falls City Beer
12-26-2006, 02:48 PM
If you're mad at Bono for moving his businesses to avoid paying taxes on them, then you're going to be mad at all rich people who support charities. All rich people move their stuff around to avoid paying taxes; that's why they're rich.

So if they gave to charity, avoided paying their taxes, but don't ask people to contribute to charity, you'd be okay with it; but because he moves his assets, gives to charity, and asks others to give to charity, he's a schmuck.

Gotcha.

RedsManRick
12-26-2006, 03:03 PM
I'm not at all claiming that Bono is solely responsible for debt forgiveness. I was much too blunt in my previous statement. However, I am claiming that debt forgiveness is helpful on a scale that no personal contribution could possibly match and that is a very worthwhile cause for him to champion.

As for the tax dodges, Bono is worth about 50 million. That's a lot of money to you and me, certainly, but in the world of the truly rich, he's just average, if that. Everybody who has this kind of money does similar things. Do you think Bob Castellini doesn't have a tax accountant working out ways to save him from a big tax bill? If he does, will that change your willingness to pay 20 bucks for a ticket to a game?

I work for a philanthropic management consulting firm. I'm familiar with the industry, the giving methods, and the way tax law plays in to it. We can whine and complain that a rich person is avoiding millions in taxes. However, that doesn't change the benefit of what he's trying to accomplish philanthropically. That he does both in no way changes my opinion of him. Almost everybody I know is hypocritical in the sense that they are both selfish and philanthropic. That he does both under the spotlight doesn't change my view of him.

Do you think Shaq wasn't thinking of his tax bill when he wanted to play ball in Florida? Rich people (and most people aspiring to be rich) try to limit their tax bill. Does it "excuse" the behavior? I suppose not. But let's be consistent in our condemnation.

Ltlabner
12-26-2006, 08:34 PM
So if they gave to charity, avoided paying their taxes, but don't ask people to contribute to charity, you'd be okay with it; but because he moves his assets, gives to charity, and asks others to give to charity, he's a schmuck.



Do you think Bob Castellini doesn't have a tax accountant working out ways to save him from a big tax bill?

I don't care that he moves his assets to minimize his tax exposure.

I don't care that he campaigns for debt reliefe.

I do care that he prances around telling lots of other people to give up their millions and how they should "do more". Yet, when given a chance to "do more" for the people of Ireland by "paying his fair share" he bolted. If taking money from one group and giving it to another is the cure-all for all that ails the world, shouldn't he be able to take the same medicine that he dishes out?

Of course BCast has accountants to try to minimize his tax bill. He'd be stupid not to. Then again, he isn't on the TV trying to convince me to give more, do more, hand over more either.

KittyDuran
12-26-2006, 09:17 PM
Of course BCast has accountants to try to minimize his tax bill. He'd be stupid not to. Then again, he isn't on the TV trying to convince me to give more, do more, hand over more either.
Well some of the prices on tickets went up for next season...;)

Falls City Beer
12-26-2006, 09:41 PM
I don't care that he moves his assets to minimize his tax exposure.

I don't care that he campaigns for debt reliefe.

I do care that he prances around telling lots of other people to give up their millions and how they should "do more". Yet, when given a chance to "do more" for the people of Ireland by "paying his fair share" he bolted. If taking money from one group and giving it to another is the cure-all for all that ails the world, shouldn't he be able to take the same medicine that he dishes out?

Of course BCast has accountants to try to minimize his tax bill. He'd be stupid not to. Then again, he isn't on the TV trying to convince me to give more, do more, hand over more either.

So it's just that he's visible and asks people to pay attention to the terrible poverty in world. Okay. You don't see the hypocrisy in a guy like BCast not having to pay U.S and Ohio taxes and then giving to charity?

lo ryder
01-05-2007, 12:09 AM
That's the problem with most celeb do-gooder types. It's easy to give away other peoples money. I respect the ones who quietly go about giving to charities and do so without the spot light or attempted guilt trips on the general public. Those folks are the ones who should earn our respect.

But the ones who want to soak up the spotlight while doing charity work AND want you to finance there alleged good works really are just doing it for the attention.

If you harp on other people for being "too wealthy" and not sharing ala Bono, but spend a lot of your time making sure you have yours, you are the diffinition of a hypocrite IMO.


AMEN!

kaldaniels
01-17-2007, 11:20 PM
I'm sorry, this needs to be addressed...hopefully by the beginner of this thread if he/she is willing to step up.

1) Go to walmart.com...you can download the aforementioned songs 1 at a time.

2) Doesn't this mean Apple/iTunes is the Scrooge, not Bono.

What a ridiculous topic.

Sorry to bring this back up, but I was/am disgusted with the idea that the problem was all due to Bono.