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Dracodave
12-26-2006, 08:13 PM
Ken Rosenthal reports that the Angels have signed Shea Hillenbrand to a one-year deal. ESPN adds that the contract includes an option for 2008. RotoWorld has the dollars: $6MM in 2006 with a $6.5MM vesting option for '08. Should the Halos use him at first base, it could indicate a trade of Casey Kotchman or Kendry Morales is on the horizon.


10 years younger and 4 million more, which makes Conine look slightly worse now... (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/12/angels_sign_she.html#comments)

Z-Fly
12-26-2006, 08:28 PM
10 years younger and 4 million more, which makes Conine look slightly worse now... (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/12/angels_sign_she.html#comments)

Shea:
SPLIT G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG
Season 141 530 73 147 27 1 21 68 1 .277 .313 .451

Conine:
SPLIT G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB BA OBP SLG
Season 142 489 54 131 26 4 10 66 3 .268 .325 .399

I would agree that shea is better. But I don't know if I would pay three times as much for him :eek:. The age is not that big of a factor considering he is just stopping in for a year to be a stop gap.

Don't forget, he was pretty much punted off of Toranto.

pedro
12-26-2006, 08:32 PM
Hillenbrand doesn't play OF.

Z-Fly
12-26-2006, 08:34 PM
Hillenbrand doesn't play OF.

Also a good point, but I think the point he was trying to make is that they both would be considered RH 1st base platoon guys. The majority of the time.

Dracodave
12-26-2006, 09:12 PM
Also a good point, but I think the point he was trying to make is that they both would be considered RH 1st base platoon guys. The majority of the time.

My point was...Hillenbrand could play every day First. Hatte moves to the bench. Conine moves to the bench. Where they need to be.


Doesn't Conine need a walker to cover right field?

Falls City Beer
12-26-2006, 09:17 PM
I had the pleasure of watching Conine field for the Phils in RF last season. Pretty rough.

Tom Servo
12-26-2006, 09:21 PM
I'd say Conine and Hillenbrand are about as polar opposites of clubhouse guys as you can get.

Dracodave
12-26-2006, 09:21 PM
I had the pleasure of watching Conine field for the Phils in RF last season. Pretty rough.

So you're saying he's worse than Wily Mo in the field?:bang:

pedro
12-26-2006, 09:23 PM
I had the pleasure of watching Conine field for the Phils in RF last season. Pretty rough.

True. I shudder to think of a Reds OF of Dunn/Griffey/Conine.

That may be potentially the worst defensive OF ever.

Dracodave
12-26-2006, 09:25 PM
True. I shudder to think of a Reds OF of Dunn/Griffey/Conine.

That may be potentially the worst defensive OF ever.

Maybe we should trade for Manny Ramierez..that'll make it better..

Patpacillosjock
12-26-2006, 09:27 PM
The guy can hit and play a good 1b (he was an all star 3b with the Red Sox a few years back)

for 6 mil versus 2 mil and Conine..cmon guys..i know you hate me and all but this has to be an easy one.

edabbs44
12-26-2006, 09:27 PM
True. I shudder to think of a Reds OF of Dunn/Griffey/Conine.

That may be potentially the worst defensive OF ever.

If Conine ever starts (barring the once in a blue moon getaway day) in RF, then Narron should be fired as soon as they post the lineups.

As many said last year, shame on WK for providing Jerry with older, washed up players...it's like putting a 6 pack in the fridge of an alcoholic.

pedro
12-26-2006, 09:30 PM
My point was...Hillenbrand could play every day First. Hatte moves to the bench. Conine moves to the bench. Where they need to be.


Doesn't Conine need a walker to cover right field?

we really wouldn't want Hillenbrand playing against RHP. His 3 year OPS against RHP is .756 and it was .728 last year. Hatteberg's 3 year splits against RHP show a .790 OPS with a .374 OBP. Shea probably would be a better platoon partner at 1B with hatteberg than Conine but that's too much money to pay someone just to play against LHP.

Plus, I'd be worried about Narron playing Shea over EE.

As for Conine, he's really not a solution for anything, except maybe as a PH.

I'd prefer the Reds play Dunn at 1B against LHP and get Denorfia/Freel in the lineup.

Dracodave
12-26-2006, 09:32 PM
I'd prefer the Reds play Dunn at 1B against LHP and get Denorfia/Freel in the lineup.

I'd perfer Dunn at first on a daily basis with an outfield of Freel, Griffey the right handed bat thats NOT Conine.

pedro
12-26-2006, 09:35 PM
I'd perfer Dunn at first on a daily basis with an outfield of Freel, Griffey the right handed bat thats NOT Conine.

Barring an acquisition, i'd be fine if that was Denorfia. I don't ever want to see Conine start.

I'm not terribly hot on the idea of Freel starting everyday. He really doesn't do all that well against RHP.

Dracodave
12-26-2006, 10:42 PM
Barring an acquisition, i'd be fine if that was Denorfia. I don't ever want to see Conine start.

I'm not terribly hot on the idea of Freel starting everyday. He really doesn't do all that well against RHP.

I agree. Freel is a really good sub, but every day no so hot on that either.

I do think this team still needs a big trade to bring in alot of those players. I dont think Freel or Denorfia is the answer, period. We stil needs alot of holes. covered and not too many ways of getting them.

icehole3
12-27-2006, 08:29 AM
I'd say Conine and Hillenbrand are about as polar opposites of clubhouse guys as you can get.

All we need is for Hillenbrand calling out Narron to the press by mid-season or do we?

wheels
12-27-2006, 09:39 AM
All we need is for Hillenbrand calling out Narron to the press by mid-season or do we?

Yeah, that's actually a pretty good thought.;)

maniem
12-27-2006, 11:05 AM
With Hillenbrand getting 6M/yr, C. Wilson should expect to get at least that, and maybe more. Looks like he priced himself out of Cincinnati...:bang:

I wouldn't have minded giving a similar contract like that to Wilson and left Conine back in Philly...

mth123
12-27-2006, 11:10 AM
With Hillenbrand getting 6M/yr, C. Wilson should expect to get at least that, and maybe more. Looks like he priced himself out of Cincinnati...:bang:

I wouldn't have minded giving a similar contract like that to Wilson and left Conine back in Philly...

I'd take Wilson for a couple years at $6 Million per. The Reds could dump one of the pen geezers and not get Conine and he's practically paid for. I'd play him at 1B most days (batting 5th or 6th) with Hatte starting only against tough RH or on the odd day that Wilson goes to the OF (not often in my scenario). Hatte would help the bench and Wilson could help ease in Votto as the RH half of a platoon when he arrives.

Phhhl
12-27-2006, 04:53 PM
You know, Hatteberg gets knocked around here pretty good for a guy who had an obp around .400 late into the season. He's an excellent number two hitter against righties. Just because he isn't a prototypical first baseman doesn't diminish his role in the lineup. I was quite happy with what he did last year.

mth123
12-27-2006, 05:03 PM
You know, Hatteberg gets knocked around here pretty good for a guy who had an obp around .400 late into the season. He's an excellent number two hitter against righties. Just because he isn't a prototypical first baseman doesn't diminish his role in the lineup. I was quite happy with what he did last year.

It's not really Hatte. It's the construction of the team. If you are going to go with no power up the middle, you have to have it on the corners. Having a guy like Hatte at 1B, precludes you from carrying weak sticks at the defensive spots.

Hatte has had a history of following good years with bad ones. A sub .700 OPS (.677 in 2005) would not be out of the question. GABP will probably keep him in the .740 to .760 range.

BRM
12-27-2006, 05:05 PM
I was quite happy with what he did last year.

Most fans on here were happy with what he provided last year I'd think. The issue is will he be able to duplicate that performance in 2007. Odds are he won't.

Phhhl
12-27-2006, 05:29 PM
It's not really Hatte. It's the construction of the team. If you are going to go with no power up the middle, you have to have it on the corners. Having a guy like Hatte at 1B, precludes you from carrying weak sticks at the defensive spots.

Hatte has had a history of following good years with bad ones. A sub .700 OPS (.677 in 2005) would not be out of the question. GABP will probably keep him in the .740 to .760 range.

I don't know that we're all that power-deficient up the middle with Junior, Ross/Velentin, Phillips and Gonzalez. The agregate power numbers of those four guys will probably be slightly to signifigantly above average. I also believe that Edwin is going to produce better power numbers than a league average third baseman. With Dunn in left, I don't think we are talking about a punch and judy ballclub here.

But, what all lineups needs are guys that can get on base. I doubt he can produce what he did last year either, but GAB is a nice ballpark for left handed hitters and he is extremely disciplined. The construction of this lineup is exactly what I think of when I say the more guys we have like Dunn, Freel and Hatteberg working pitchers and driving up pitch counts the better. Signing or trading for a first baseman like Hillenbrand or LaRoche would be a colossal waste of limited funds, especially with Votto getting ever closer to this level. I would have preferred a younger platoon partner, but I do believe Hatteberg is one of the last things on the list of problems confronting the Reds in 2007.

Doc. Scott
12-27-2006, 05:35 PM
I don't think Hillenbrand is worth four million more than Conine, especially given the stated role.

Shea would politick like Rich Aurilia for more playing time.

I agree with the above posters- either pay Craig Wilson a lot to play every day (improving output now while creating potential problems with the blocking of Joey Votto) or get a one-year, reasonably inexpensive part-timer like Conine.

Wayne made his choice. I might have been up for the idea of Wilson given that Craig could also play right field (albeit mediocrely), but I also think the guy is a tiny bit overrated as well.

mth123
12-27-2006, 05:53 PM
I don't know that we're all that power-deficient up the middle with Junior, Ross/Velentin, Phillips and Gonzalez. The agregate power numbers of those four guys will probably be slightly to signifigantly above average. I also believe that Edwin is going to produce better power numbers than a league average third baseman. With Dunn in left, I don't think we are talking about a punch and judy ballclub here.

But, what all lineups needs are guys that can get on base. I doubt he can produce what he did last year either, but GAB is a nice ballpark for left handed hitters and he is extremely disciplined. The construction of this lineup is exactly what I think of when I say the more guys we have like Dunn, Freel and Hatteberg working pitchers and driving up pitch counts the better. Signing or trading for a first baseman like Hillenbrand or LaRoche would be a colossal waste of limited funds, especially with Votto getting ever closer to this level. I would have preferred a younger platoon partner, but I do believe Hatteberg is one of the last things on the list of problems confronting the Reds in 2007.

I guess we differ on Phillips and Gonzalez. I don't think they offer any chance to slug .400. While you are right about Griffey, I'm assuming he moves to RF, but if he stays in CF then you have a RF who can't slug. I think a team needs to have 4 guys who can slug .450. We have Dunn, EE, JR when he plays and a lot of hope that Ross can repeat. I don't expect to get slugging from the Lead-off spot (whether its in RF or CF), the middle IF or really the catcher. The huge disadvantage is at 1B. Other teams are running out Pujols, Howard, Berkman, Delgado, LaRoche, Nick Johnson, Prince Fielder, Derek Lee, Todd Helton, Nomar, Adrian Gonzalez, Mike Jacobs, Conor Jackson etc. while the Reds have a combo that projects to slug like a MI. Only Pitt and SF are as bad and with Klesko and Richie in SF they'll be better too.

Trading for Laroche wouldn't be my first choice either with Votto on the way. I'd rather use any trading chips we have on pitching, but this team needs power in a big way IMO.

pedro
12-27-2006, 05:56 PM
I guess we differ on Phillips and Gonzalez. I don't think they offer any chance to slug .400. While you are right about Griffey, I'm assuming he moves to RF, but if he stays in CF then you have a RF who can't slug. I think a team needs to have 4 guys who can slug .450. We have Dunn, EE, JR when he plays and a lot of hope that Ross can repeat. I don't expect to get slugging from the Lead-off spot (whether its in RF or CF), the middle IF or really the catcher. The huge disadvantage is at 1B. Other teams are running out Pujols, Howard, Berkman, Delgado, LaRoche, Nick Johnson, Prince Fielder, Derek Lee, Todd Helton, Nomar, Adrian Gonzalez, Mike Jacobs, Conor Jackson etc. while the Reds have a combo that projects to slug like a MI. Only Pitt and SF are as bad and with Klesko and Richie in SF they'll be better too.

Trading for Laroche wouldn't be my first choice either with Votto on the way. I'd rather use any trading chips we have on pitching, but this team needs power in a big way IMO.



Phillips slugged .427 last year so I'd say that there certainly is a *chance* he'll slug .400 again.

Gonzalez OTOH, may slug .400 but not much higher. (his lifetime slg is .397)

Will M
12-27-2006, 10:31 PM
I agree with some who say that the C, 2B, SS & CF spots could provide more offense that they are getting credit for.

I don't think Ross will hit 20 HRs but certainly Ross/Valentin could hit 20-25.

Phillips hit 17 HRs last year and stole 25 bases. Yet a lot of posters treat him like he is Juan Castro.

Gonazalez - don't know. He had some good years in Florida. If he hits .260 with 15 Hrs and gold glove D then I am happy.

Deno COULD have more power than people think. I beliebe Team Clark has stated he thinks Deno could hit 20 HRs a year.