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BEETTLEBUG
12-27-2006, 12:20 AM
I saw that Granderson maybe available . Might Tigers trade him for Milton if Reds pay half of Miltons contract?

I also thought about Tim Hudson, what could we give up to get him ? Hopefully not too much because of his contract and that he would stay more than one year.

marcshoe
12-27-2006, 12:35 AM
Milton for Granderson would likely require kidnapping and drugging Dave Dombrowski. If anyone's game, I'll help.

Jpup
12-27-2006, 01:16 AM
I saw that Granderson maybe available . Might Tigers trade him for Milton if Reds pay half of Miltons contract?

I also thought about Tim Hudson, what could we give up to get him ? Hopefully not too much because of his contract and that he would stay more than one year.

Granderson isn't much with the stick. I'm not sure how he solves any of the Reds problems. He struck out 174 times last year so that means that most Reds fans would eat him alive. While, I don't think strikeouts mean a whole lot, Granderson just doesn't get on base enough for my tastes. He also doesn't walk hardly any. When he does get on base, he doesn't steal any. Chris Denorfia and Ryan Freel are both much better options for centerfield and hitting leadoff. If the Reds had to give up anything of value, I wouldn't want him.

My feeling on Hudson are known, I would love to have him and I would trade a pretty decent guy to get him. As long as it didn't involve guys like Arroyo, Dunn, Harang, Bruce, Bailey, Votto, or Encarnacion, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Brandon Phillips might be someone the Braves would be interested in and maybe a package could be done to include one of the Braves young infielders to make up for the loss.

KronoRed
12-27-2006, 01:19 AM
Milton for Granderson would likely require kidnapping and drugging Dave Dombrowski. If anyone's game, I'll help.
Lets go.

marcshoe
12-27-2006, 01:36 AM
I kind of see Granderson as Reggie Sanders. I might be wrong, but that's been my impression of him. I know he put up solid numbers at every level in the minors and decent, but not great, numbers in his first season as a full-time starter at the major league level. I don't have any firsthand knowledge of what his defense is like, though I've heard the opinion that, in spite of the WS bumble, he's pretty good. I see him as a better option than Denorfia in the outfield.

Having said that, all resources should go to getting another starter before doing anything else.

savafan
12-27-2006, 01:37 AM
Milton for Granderson would likely require kidnapping and drugging Dave Dombrowski. If anyone's game, I'll help.

I'm game!

Jpup
12-27-2006, 01:41 AM
I kind of see Granderson as Reggie Sanders. I might be wrong, but that's been my impression of him. I know he put up solid numbers at every level in the minors and decent, but not great, numbers in his first season as a full-time starter at the major league level. I don't have any firsthand knowledge of what his defense is like, though I've heard the opinion that, in spite of the WS bumble, he's not bad, but I see him as a better option than Denorfia in the outfield.

Having said that, all resources should go to getting another starter before doing anything else.

Denorfia and Freel are better than Granderson and it's not even close. I don't believe there was anything decent about his season last year. The guy just doesn't get on base and can hardly even hit. The term "judy hitter" was made for him.

marcshoe
12-27-2006, 01:58 AM
Granderson had 31 doubles, 9 triples, 19 homeruns, .335 OBP and .438 slugging (.773 OPS). This was his first full season. He slumped badly in August but rebounded for an .868 OPS in September. Through late June, he led the AL in Win Shares, fwiw.

I have no problems with Freel's numbers; I simply want to trade him for a pitcher. He's steady and consistent. Last season, he hit 30 doubles, 2 triples, 8 homeruns, .363 OBP (vital for a leadoff hitter), .399 slugging, .762 OPS. Also, 37 steals. The only reason I would give Granderson a nod is that I think his numbers should improve based on his age and what he did in the minors. Freel's steady. He's hitting what he will hit as long as he is healthy.

Denorfia only has 144 at bats over two seasons. He looks as if he could be steady enough if given a regular spot. Granderson has more of an upside, though.

'course Granderson's primary value may be that he would force Griffey to move to right. The Reds might do that with Deno, but I don't see it.

Jpup
12-27-2006, 02:08 AM
Granderson had 31 doubles, 9 triples, 19 homeruns, .335 OBP and .438 slugging (.773 OPS). This was his first full season. He slumped badly in August but rebounded for an .868 OPS in September. Through late June, he led the AL in Win Shares, fwiw.

I have no problems with Freel's numbers; I simply want to trade him for a pitcher. He's steady and consistent. Last season, he hit 30 doubles, 2 triples, 8 homeruns, .363 OBP (vital for a leadoff hitter), .399 slugging, .762 OPS. Also, 37 steals. The only reason I would give Granderson a nod is that I think his numbers should improve based on his age and what he did in the minors. Freel's steady. He's hitting what he will hit as long as he is healthy.

Denorfia only has 144 at bats over two seasons. He looks as if he could be steady enough if given a regular spot. Granderson has more of an upside, though.

'course Granderson's primary value may be that he would force Griffey to move to right. The Reds might do that with Deno, but I don't see it.

You make a decent argument, but the way that I look at it is: if you are a leadoff hitter, you must know how to get on base. I also don't think Jr. is moving anywhere for Curtis Granderson. Jr. shouldn't be given the option anyway.

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 02:11 AM
Granderson also changed his batting approach after the all-star. I remember hearing that during the WS, I understand for what its worth, Deno and Freel are in house options just as good, but why not dangle one of them + Cormier and a prospect for Granderson and Ledzema?

Detroit needs that lefty from the pen and the Reds have a surplus of them. Not to mention Granderson pushes Griffey to RF. Perhaps Griffey teachers Granderson a thing or two as well?

We have vet's I know, out the wazzoo. Problem is we have no vets with the guts to stand up and start working out the "Theres always next year" crap we here. Hatteberg and Arroyo tried to say that last year, and got the ol'shut up one too many times.

Jpup
12-27-2006, 02:20 AM
Granderson also changed his batting approach after the all-star. I remember hearing that during the WS, I understand for what its worth, Deno and Freel are in house options just as good, but why not dangle one of them + Cormier and a prospect for Granderson and Ledzema?

Detroit needs that lefty from the pen and the Reds have a surplus of them. Not to mention Granderson pushes Griffey to RF. Perhaps Griffey teachers Granderson a thing or two as well?

We have vet's I know, out the wazzoo. Problem is we have no vets with the guts to stand up and start working out the "Theres always next year" crap we here. Hatteberg and Arroyo tried to say that last year, and got the ol'shut up one too many times.

The Reds need starters, bad.

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 09:31 AM
The Reds need starters, bad.

And thats why I said Ledzema who did very well in spot-starts for the Tigers. And not so shabby in his relief either. Young left hander. :laugh:

redsfan30
12-27-2006, 09:34 AM
Beetle...this isn't really directed towards you alone, but why is it that everyone here seems to think that other teams would take on Eric Milton?

Seems like every trade cooked up here involves the Reds unloading Milton on somebody for a decent return.

Eric Milton is a Red in 2007....get used to it.

Highlifeman21
12-27-2006, 10:38 AM
Milton for Granderson would likely require kidnapping and drugging Dave Dombrowski. If anyone's game, I'll help.

Need a wheelman?

IslandRed
12-27-2006, 10:51 AM
Beetle...this isn't really directed towards you alone, but why is it that everyone here seems to think that other teams would take on Eric Milton?

Because guys like Gil Meche are signing five-year $55-million deals. If people are that desperate for pitching, Milton's salary -- particularly with only one year left on the deal -- isn't the albatross it once was. That's not to say he's worth a lot, but if we kicked in some money on the deal, we could probably find a taker.

Whether the return would be decent is a separate question. As is, who's taking the ball if he's not here. As little regard as I have for Milton, last year's parade of nobodies through the #5 spot (Joe Mays?) reminds me that it can be worse.

HumnHilghtFreel
12-27-2006, 02:24 PM
Chris Denorfia and Ryan Freel are both much better options for centerfield and hitting leadoff.

I'm just wondering what Deno showed you that makes you say this? I didn't really see it.

BEETTLEBUG
12-27-2006, 05:35 PM
Redsfan30 I like your aviator who is it? I said Milton only cause of Death Valley Park in Detroit.

gm
12-27-2006, 06:21 PM
I don't believe there was anything decent about his season last year.

Well, we learned he can hit an opposite-field HR in Comerica Park off of David Weathers (Grrr...)

Jpup
12-27-2006, 09:22 PM
I'm just wondering what Deno showed you that makes you say this? I didn't really see it.

Deno hasn't shown me much (he does know how to get on base in comparison), but he's better than Granderson. Freel is the best option for CF IMO.

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 09:32 PM
Deno hasn't shown me much (he does know how to get on base in comparison), but he's better than Granderson. Freel is the best option for CF IMO.

Lets compare stat's shall we?

Deno's stats in 67 games.

144 22 40 9 0 2 9 55 17 30 2 1 .358 .382 .278

Ganderson's stats in 215 games

783 110 205 38 13 27 88 350 79 225 9 6 .330 .447 .262

In 67 games, Deno has shown zero power, he can get on base but only .028 better than Granderson. Granderson has one error in 1747.2 innings. Not too Bad. Deno has one error in 299.1 innings. Defensively, I'd take Granderson.

It's a toss up for who I want in CF..

But I wouldnt say Deno is better than Granderson by any strech. They have two different skill sets.

Jpup
12-27-2006, 09:38 PM
They have two different skill sets.

yeah, you are right. one of them is a fourth outfielder and the other is a fifth. Neither one address the Reds problems. If they went after Granderson, it would be like trading for another old reliever. The Reds have a surplus of judy hitting players, the don't need anymore.

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 11:21 PM
yeah, you are right. one of them is a fourth outfielder and the other is a fifth. Neither one address the Reds problems. If they went after Granderson, it would be like trading for another old reliever. The Reds have a surplus of judy hitting players, the don't need anymore.

Thanks for understand that I just wanted to say neither is better, neither is the option and not "attack" you.

And yes, they do have a surplus of it but the fact reminds that this team needs to start making splashes somewhere..

And we need decent pitching we can't seem to get.