PDA

View Full Version : Adam Laroche is on the block and here's how the Reds can get him.



Handofdeath
12-27-2006, 02:54 PM
Per Fox Sports

The Braves are still talking to teams, trying to add another quality arm and perhaps a leadoff man, but they’re not going to trade Adam LaRoche or anyone else unless it’s a deal they believe makes their team better — now.

Reds get Adam Laroche

Braves get Ryan Freel and Brendan Harris.

The Braves have a hole at second and need a leadoff hitter. I think this works for both teams and gives the Reds that second power bat.

flyer85
12-27-2006, 02:55 PM
I honestly don't see Laroche as an answer to any question. The Reds need another power bat but they need a RH bat. he has some rather nasty righty/lefty splits as well.

Superdude
12-27-2006, 03:03 PM
I thought they traded him to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez or something? Laroche hit 32 homers last year. Why in the world would they trade him for a leadoff hitter and a mediocre prospect? I'm confused. Are we talking about the same Laroche?

RedsManRick
12-27-2006, 03:04 PM
We need another guy at 1B who can't hit lefties. Trade for LaRoche and do what with Votto? The trade to be made was Freel or Harris for Giles with Phillips moving to short... Krivksy thought Seabass was a better acquisition.

flyer85
12-27-2006, 03:05 PM
Are we talking about the same Laroche?the Braves do a really good job in assessing their young talent. Laroche has been mentioned in numerous trade offers. I am guessing the Braves think the 2nd half of the 2006 season is more of a fluke than a new level of performance.

Team Clark
12-27-2006, 03:19 PM
I thought they traded him to Pittsburgh for Gonzalez or something? Laroche hit 32 homers last year. Why in the world would they trade him for a leadoff hitter and a mediocre prospect? I'm confused. Are we talking about the same Laroche?

Pretty much the same thing I was thinking. Not to mention Freel would have a hard time trying to play 150+ games.

UPRedsFan
12-27-2006, 03:31 PM
Would you do Hatteberg and Freel for Laroche?

Adds power to the lineup this year, keeps Votto at AAA and gives ability to to trade Laroche or Votto later for pitching.

Tom Servo
12-27-2006, 03:34 PM
If we're dealing with the Braves I'd rather package something together in the hopes of getting Tim Hudson.

Handofdeath
12-27-2006, 03:35 PM
Pretty much the same thing I was thinking. Not to mention Freel would have a hard time trying to play 150+ games.

The deal fell apart at the last minute
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06341/744246-63.stm

The Braves are looking for a leadoff hitter which is what Freel is. They also have a need at 2B. Freel can fill both needs. Freel might also be able to avoid getting hurt so much if he can not be running and diving in the OF. Freel is a quality leadoff hitter and Harris is a throw in. He's a guy who was a pretty good infield prospect just a couple of years ago. A change of scenery might do him good. If I'm either team I would consider that deal.

Mario-Rijo
12-27-2006, 03:52 PM
How about a 3 way deal:

Pirates Get: Laroche
Reds Get: Mike Gonzales
Braves get: Harris/Freel and Bray

I know the deal fell apart because Schuerholtz wanted both Gonzales and Sanchez. The Pirates alledgedly countered with Sanchez and Gonzales for Laroche and Davies (I believe), which wasn't enough for the Braves.

I like it, just don't know if the Pirates FO could deal with Gonzales in the same division. I would rather keep Freel and Bray but it's not likely too happen, if you want quality you must deal quality or at least potential quality.

mth123
12-27-2006, 04:03 PM
the Braves do a really good job in assessing their young talent. Laroche has been mentioned in numerous trade offers. I am guessing the Braves think the 2nd half of the 2006 season is more of a fluke than a new level of performance.

I think it has more to do with Corporte profits and a ready and cheaper Scott Thorman. Those 32 HR will drive up the arb cost. I'd be happy if the Reds got Laroche and I don't think it unrealistic for a cheap lead-off guy to get him, but I'd prefer Freel be used for a pitcher.

Team Clark
12-27-2006, 04:06 PM
The deal fell apart at the last minute
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06341/744246-63.stm

The Braves are looking for a leadoff hitter which is what Freel is. They also have a need at 2B. Freel can fill both needs. Freel might also be able to avoid getting hurt so much if he can not be running and diving in the OF. Freel is a quality leadoff hitter and Harris is a throw in. He's a guy who was a pretty good infield prospect just a couple of years ago. A change of scenery might do him good. If I'm either team I would consider that deal.

Would you really give up Freel for a LH 1B? I'd rather see a 32 HR RH. JMO.

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 04:26 PM
Would you really give up Freel for a LH 1B? I'd rather see a 32 HR RH. JMO.

You mean Vlad? Yeah sure if Freel can net him I'd be all for it..

Oh wait...:laugh:

Team Clark
12-27-2006, 04:29 PM
You mean Vlad? Yeah sure if Freel can net him I'd be all for it..

Oh wait...:laugh:

Sounds good to me! :thumbup:

Handofdeath
12-27-2006, 04:32 PM
Would you really give up Freel for a LH 1B? I'd rather see a 32 HR RH. JMO.

So would I TC. But the Reds are in need of power right now (in addition to other needs) Right side, left side, or both sides, it doesn't matter. The Reds need power. Freel is one of the more tradeable players the Reds have and I think the Reds can afford to lose him. I like Freel but he's averaging 126 games a year played. That's 36 games a season where his considerable skills are not out there on the field. Getting the kind of offensive numbers that Laroche has is a lot harder to get than what Freel offers. Some say that Laroche doesn't hit lefties well enough but I know that he still wound up 10th in OPS in the NL this season and the vast majority of NL Central starters are righties. He is also still young and has plenty of room for improvement. I would take that over a talented but oft-injured OF'er who's now 30 years old and who has had off the field issues pop up more than once.

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 04:32 PM
Sounds good to me! :thumbup:

TC, always providing good laughs.

But yeah I do agree with you.

Sandwhich a righty 32 HR between Dunn and Griffey and suddenly the line up looks alot better. Sandwhich a LH 32 HR and suddenly...It looks like Casey-Griffey-Dunn all over again...except Casey would have to be on * for that to happen.

Krusty
12-27-2006, 04:33 PM
How about a 3 way deal:

Pirates Get: Laroche
Reds Get: Mike Gonzales
Braves get: Harris/Freel and Bray

I know the deal fell apart because Schuerholtz wanted both Gonzales and Sanchez. The Pirates alledgedly countered with Sanchez and Gonzales for Laroche and Davies (I believe), which wasn't enough for the Braves.

I like it, just don't know if the Pirates FO could deal with Gonzales in the same division. I would rather keep Freel and Bray but it's not likely too happen, if you want quality you must deal quality or at least potential quality.

I think the deal can still fly by taking Bray out of the trade talks.

Handofdeath
12-27-2006, 04:46 PM
I would do this one as well

Reds trade

Ryan Freel
Adam Dunn
Bronson Arroyo

Braves trade

Adam Laroche
Andruw Jones
Tim Hudson

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 04:48 PM
I don't, because I feel the Braves will scream "UNFAIR" to that. They don't get anything comparable to Gonzalez at all. Freel+Bray..Bray does not equal Gonzalez as we speak.

A more fair deal would be something along the lines of..

Reds get Bullington, Oscar Villarreal.
Pirates get LaRoche, Bray
Atlanta gets Freel, Gonzalaez.

Thats a more balanced trade.

mth123
12-27-2006, 04:52 PM
I don't, because I feel the Braves will scream "UNFAIR" to that. They don't get anything comparable to Gonzalez at all. Freel+Bray..Bray does not equal Gonzalez as we speak.

A more fair deal would be something along the lines of..

Reds get Bullington, Oscar Villarreal.
Pirates get LaRoche, Bray
Atlanta gets Freel, Gonzalaez.

Thats a more balanced trade.

Not for the Reds. I'd keep Bray and Freel. Bullington is a non-factor and Villareal is no upgrade. I wouldn't trade either of those for both.

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 04:55 PM
But the fact is, thats the only way a trade like this happens. One of those two times is going to try to scam the Reds. Might as well take it the best we can.


We can't get Davies or Gorzanlenny for Freel how ever much we would like to. But if we package Freel+Bray+Cormier/Stanton/Weathers. Just maybe we can get one? If so, the return looks better than what we shipped out.

Heath
12-27-2006, 04:59 PM
I'm questioning the sentence. Why would the Reds want LaRoche when they have Votto?

:dunno:

Handofdeath
12-27-2006, 05:27 PM
I'm questioning the sentence. Why would the Reds want LaRoche when they have Votto?

:dunno:

Votto is hitting great in the minors but he hasn't had a single AB above AA.

Krusty
12-27-2006, 05:54 PM
Better yet just trade Freel to the Pirates for LHP Mike Gonzalez. Then the Pirates can ship Freel along with another player for LaRoche.

Falls City Beer
12-27-2006, 08:49 PM
Laroche is a meringue. I wouldn't trade Freel for him.

RedsManRick
12-27-2006, 08:53 PM
But if you're going to trade Freel (and more) for a young guy, why get a guy who's going to block the best offensive prospect you have who's even close to ready? You'd then nearly be compelled to swing Votto elsewhere because he's got nowhere to go but down value wise as a Red.

Degenerate39
12-27-2006, 09:58 PM
I would do this one as well

Reds trade

Ryan Freel
Adam Dunn
Bronson Arroyo

Braves trade

Adam Laroche
Andruw Jones
Tim Hudson

Sounds like a fantasy trade to me. I don't see this happening but I would love for it to happen.

Jpup
12-27-2006, 10:27 PM
Laroche is a meringue. I wouldn't trade Freel for him.

you can't be serious. You wouldn't trade Ryan Freel for Adam Laroche? C'mon.

Falls City Beer
12-27-2006, 10:31 PM
you can't be serious. You wouldn't trade Ryan Freel for Adam Laroche? C'mon.

Well, I might, but then I'd flip Laroche for something else because I have no faith that Laroche is the real thing.

Dracodave
12-27-2006, 10:37 PM
Well, I might, but then I'd flip Laroche for something else because I have no faith that Laroche is the real thing.

Couldn't agree more. It's not that I dont have faith in Laroche. Its that Atlanta loves to hype players up as "they can do this all the time!" and they cant or wont.

Jpup
12-27-2006, 10:39 PM
Well, I might, but then I'd flip Laroche for something else because I have no faith that Laroche is the real thing.

that sounds better. I wouldn't mind that at all. I really would like to see Votto to get a shot, this spring, at taking the everyday job at 1st.

Handofdeath
12-27-2006, 11:08 PM
Well, I might, but then I'd flip Laroche for something else because I have no faith that Laroche is the real thing.

I certainly would like to see him do it again but he is 27 and entering the prime of his career. If he improves anymore he'll be too expensive. 32 homers, 90 RBI's, and 89 runs is pretty good. What's better is the #8 rank in SLG and #10 in OPS in the NL. All of this from a guy who started 61 out of 149 games batting in the #7 slot for the Braves.

Superdude
12-28-2006, 02:03 AM
I don't really know about the whole money thing, but how can you possibly argue that it's not smart to trade Freel for Laroche? Laroche was two points away from Soriano in EqA last year...but I guess trading away our scrappy leadoff hitter is too much to take? Once again...are we talking about the same Laroche?

camisadelgolf
12-28-2006, 09:49 AM
I would do this one as well

Reds trade

Ryan Freel
Adam Dunn
Bronson Arroyo

Braves trade

Adam Laroche
Andruw Jones
Tim Hudson

Here are the problems I see:

Conine is the starting leftfielder.

Hatteberg get blocked.

Arroyo would be substituted by Hudson, who is most likely only a slight upgrade (if any upgrade at all) at more than double the salary.

Hudson is going to make $33 million through 2009.

The deal adds close to $10 million to the payroll in 2007.

Andruw Jones is in the last year of his contract.

Oddly enough, you found a way to add power by trading Dunn--however, the other factors turn me off a bit. That's a pretty good proposal, but I'm not sure I'd accept it if I were either side.

UPRedsFan
12-28-2006, 10:00 AM
Freel, Hatteberg, Shackleford

for

LaRoche and Thompson

deltachi8
12-28-2006, 10:40 AM
Well, I might, but then I'd flip Laroche for something else because I have no faith that Laroche is the real thing.

That I agree with.

camisadelgolf
12-28-2006, 10:58 AM
Freel, Hatteberg, Shackleford

for

LaRoche and Thompson

Adam Dunn, Ryan Freel, and Rheal Cormier

for

Andruw Jones, Tim Hudson, Joey Devine, Macay McBride, Andy Marte, and Tony Pena, Jr.

Heath
12-28-2006, 02:16 PM
Adam Dunn, Ryan Freel, and Rheal Cormier

for

Andruw Jones, Tim Hudson, Joey Devine, Macay McBride, Andy Marte, and Tony Pena, Jr.


That's kinda hard with Andy Marte in Cleveland.

camisadelgolf
12-28-2006, 02:30 PM
Well, I could throw Santa Claus on there, and the odds of that trade happening would be the same.

buckeyenut
12-28-2006, 05:24 PM
I have no interest in dealing for Andruw Jones, only a little in dealing for Hudson and no interest in dealing Dunn to get either of those guys in a Reds uniform.

Handofdeath
12-29-2006, 12:14 AM
I have no interest in dealing for Andruw Jones, only a little in dealing for Hudson and no interest in dealing Dunn to get either of those guys in a Reds uniform.

Unless it was money what possible reason could you have for not wanting Andruw Jones? He's the best defensive CF since Mays. Plays over 150 games every year. 342 lifetime homers and over 1,000 RBI's and still not yet 30. More power than Dunn at his best and better at CF than Jr. in his prime. What's not to like?

Patpacillosjock
12-29-2006, 12:28 AM
Unless it was money what possible reason could you have for not wanting Andruw Jones? He's the best defensive CF since Mays. Plays over 150 games every year. 342 lifetime homers and over 1,000 RBI's and still not yet 30. More power than Dunn at his best and better at CF than Jr. in his prime. What's not to like?

i agree. Somehow, even though he does have some sportscenter highlights, I think Andruw JOnes is one of the most underrated players today. He is definitely a future hall of famer.

BRM
12-29-2006, 01:43 PM
Dial had Andruw near the bottom in 2006 for NL Centerfielders. Only Junior was worse in his rankings.

LINK (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/discussion/2006_national_league_gold_gloves_as_i_see_it/)

Handofdeath
12-29-2006, 02:20 PM
Dial had Andruw near the bottom in 2006 for NL Centerfielders. Only Junior was worse in his rankings.

LINK (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/discussion/2006_national_league_gold_gloves_as_i_see_it/)

And he had Hatteberg at #1 for 1B. And good lord, doesn't the guy know how to use spell check? That is the sloppiest piece of work I have seen in more ways than one. Juan Encarnacion #2 RF?. I'm sorry, but the only thing this guy can convince me of is that he never took a typing class in school.

pahster
12-29-2006, 04:40 PM
Dial had Andruw near the bottom in 2006 for NL Centerfielders. Only Junior was worse in his rankings.

LINK (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/discussion/2006_national_league_gold_gloves_as_i_see_it/)

For the 2005 season, Dewan's Fielding Bible has him at +4 plays made and ranked him 9th out of 30. As for FRAA, he's been at -1, -5, and -3 from 2004 to 2006. It was 18 in 2003.

Will M
12-29-2006, 05:01 PM
Watching him a few times last year it did look like he has lost a step.

I believe he has a strong arm so a move to RF may be in his future.

I certainly don't expect him to be the defender in the future that he was in the past.

camisadelgolf
12-29-2006, 05:15 PM
Well, as long as he keeps hitting like he has, he'll probably be getting his tenth consecutive Gold Glove.

RedsManRick
12-29-2006, 05:25 PM
Unless it was money what possible reason could you have for not wanting Andruw Jones? He's the best defensive CF since Mays. Plays over 150 games every year. 342 lifetime homers and over 1,000 RBI's and still not yet 30. More power than Dunn at his best and better at CF than Jr. in his prime. What's not to like?

Not saying I wouldn't want Jones, but you have to remember that we wouldn't get any of those games played, any of those 342 homers, or any of those 1000+ RBI. You only get to count on what he does in the future. I'd certainly take a 900 OPS RF with above average defense, but he's certainly lost a step or two speed wise in CF.

Handofdeath
12-29-2006, 06:48 PM
Not saying I wouldn't want Jones, but you have to remember that we wouldn't get any of those games played, any of those 342 homers, or any of those 1000+ RBI. You only get to count on what he does in the future. I'd certainly take a 900 OPS RF with above average defense, but he's certainly lost a step or two speed wise in CF.

I totally agree. What I wouldn't give for some of those years when Jr. played over 150 games.:D Andruw Jones's power numbers over the last 2 years have really improved. His homers are up and he's now one of the better RBI men in the NL. The chance he might have lost a step or two defensively doesn't bother me too much. He's still better than everybody else the gap just isn't as big. Besides, last year he had tendonitis in his left knee.

tripleaaaron
12-30-2006, 03:10 AM
Dial had Andruw near the bottom in 2006 for NL Centerfielders. Only Junior was worse in his rankings.

LINK (http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/dialed_in/discussion/2006_national_league_gold_gloves_as_i_see_it/)

As I do agree that andrew jones is no longer the best NL centerfielder, but he is still solid. This guy has no credibility with me whatsoever.

"Dave Roberts? I didn’t see that coming. He is a CF playing LF, so I can buy it. We’re expecting a park factor for Wilson in Houston, and tehre is some effect in Florida, but Willingham is a catcher, so he probably isn’t very good. Then Adam Dunn… "
Sounds like he is just looking at their profiles and making judgements. Doesn't really seem like he even watches all these players. Then as handofdeath pointed out, the spelling mistakes........UGH!

Krusty
12-30-2006, 11:38 AM
I still like the idea of the Reds trading Freel to the Pirates for LHP Mike Gonzalez. The Pirates then could package Freel and one of their lefthanded starters to the Braves for LaRoche and RHP Kyle Davies.

Losing Freel would be tough but he is signed only through next season and might be eligible for free agency. With Encarncion, Gonzalez, Phillips and Hatteberg/Conine getting most of the playing time in the infield, Freel's playing time will be limited to the outfield.

With Norris Hopper in the picture, it might make it easier to part with Freel.

mth123
12-30-2006, 12:16 PM
I still like the idea of the Reds trading Freel to the Pirates for LHP Mike Gonzalez. The Pirates then could package Freel and one of their lefthanded starters to the Braves for LaRoche and RHP Kyle Davies.

Losing Freel would be tough but he is signed only through next season and might be eligible for free agency. With Encarncion, Gonzalez, Phillips and Hatteberg/Conine getting most of the playing time in the infield, Freel's playing time will be limited to the outfield.

With Norris Hopper in the picture, it might make it easier to part with Freel.

If the Reds could get Gonzalez for Freel I'm for it. Gonzalez would be an actual upgrade at an area of need. Freel is interchangeble with Deno IMO and neither is suited to be the line-up replacement for Griffey or Dunn as the 4th OF.

I'd try and get Ryan Church as my 4th OF. He has some pop to hit in the middle of the order and could reasonably fill-in at CF for short periods of time.

Then we would have to trade Cormier or Stanton. I like that too.

Don't really like Hopper as anything more than insurance at AAA.

Handofdeath
12-30-2006, 12:41 PM
I still like the idea of the Reds trading Freel to the Pirates for LHP Mike Gonzalez. The Pirates then could package Freel and one of their lefthanded starters to the Braves for LaRoche and RHP Kyle Davies.

Losing Freel would be tough but he is signed only through next season and might be eligible for free agency. With Encarncion, Gonzalez, Phillips and Hatteberg/Conine getting most of the playing time in the infield, Freel's playing time will be limited to the outfield.

With Norris Hopper in the picture, it might make it easier to part with Freel.

I totally agree. I think with Hopper in the picture losing Freel might not hurt so much especially if he continues to hit like he did last year. Phillips can hit leadoff instead of Freel and Gonzalez becomes the closer the Reds so badly need. It's a lot harder to find a good closer than find a 4th or 5th OFer even with Freel's skills.

Jpup
12-30-2006, 05:44 PM
Phillips can hit leadoff

now that's a really bad idea. :eek:

pahster
12-30-2006, 06:45 PM
now that's a really bad idea. :eek:

What, you don't like the prospect of a sub-.330 OBP from the leadoff spot? Or if Phillips' 2006 was a mirage, then perhaps something below .300?

Handofdeath
12-30-2006, 06:52 PM
now that's a really bad idea. :eek:

1. None of the catchers can do it
2. Hatteberg? No.
3. AGon? Bottom of the order hitter
4. EE? Middle of the order.
5. Dunn? Same thing. Too much power to stick at the top of the order good OBP or not.
6. Griffey? Only if they cut off his legs. He'll be faster that way.
7. Nameless(and surely cheap and/or old) OF that replaces Freel. No.

Who's left? I'll take the guy who was 25 for 27 on the basepaths. I mean, who else is there? The problem the Reds have here is that on good teams everybody but AGon and the catchers would be batting 6th.

mth123
12-30-2006, 08:06 PM
1. None of the catchers can do it
2. Hatteberg? No.
3. AGon? Bottom of the order hitter
4. EE? Middle of the order.
5. Dunn? Same thing. Too much power to stick at the top of the order good OBP or not.
6. Griffey? Only if they cut off his legs. He'll be faster that way.
7. Nameless(and surely cheap and/or old) OF that replaces Freel. No.

Who's left? I'll take the guy who was 25 for 27 on the basepaths. I mean, who else is there? The problem the Reds have here is that on good teams everybody but AGon and the catchers would be batting 6th.

Deno. If not him, Hatte.

Tyler Durden
12-30-2006, 11:55 PM
I like the idea of trying to get Ryan Church. I'm not sure why, but he hasn't really seemed to get a fair run in Washington. However, I'm not really confident in Wayne dealing with Leatherpants again.

And I completely agree with Deno or Hatte at leadoff over Phillips. You can't steal bases if you can't get on.

Highlifeman21
12-31-2006, 01:39 PM
I totally agree. I think with Hopper in the picture losing Freel might not hurt so much especially if he continues to hit like he did last year. Phillips can hit leadoff instead of Freel and Gonzalez becomes the closer the Reds so badly need. It's a lot harder to find a good closer than find a 4th or 5th OFer even with Freel's skills.


Gonzalez wouldn't close for us. Even if he's supposed to be a closer, Narron wouldn't pitch him in that role. He would find a way to misuse him.

As for Phillips hitting leadoff, I don't want a career out making machine at the top of the lineup. Phillips should hit 6th or 7th while wearing a Reds uniform.

And why should Hopper be in the picture? He's at best our 5th best OF option, but I would still put Josh Hamilton above him. Hopper = Bubba Crosby on the depth charts in my book. Hopper will continue to be a career minor leaguer, where he belongs.

Handofdeath
12-31-2006, 04:04 PM
Gonzalez wouldn't close for us. Even if he's supposed to be a closer, Narron wouldn't pitch him in that role. He would find a way to misuse him.

As for Phillips hitting leadoff, I don't want a career out making machine at the top of the lineup. Phillips should hit 6th or 7th while wearing a Reds uniform.

And why should Hopper be in the picture? He's at best our 5th best OF option, but I would still put Josh Hamilton above him. Hopper = Bubba Crosby on the depth charts in my book. Hopper will continue to be a career minor leaguer, where he belongs.

You mean the same way he misused Guardado and kept the Reds in the race much longer than they deserved to be?

And you are absolutely right Phillips should be hitting 6th. So should EE, Dunn, and Jr. at this point.

And my God?!? Hopper is a slap hitter OK? No power? Fine. But we are talking AAA All-Star here. 98 games at Louisville and steals 25 bases and hits .347. Goes up to Cincy and gets to play in 21 games. 39 AB's and winds up with a line of .359/.435/.462. That's called good hitting. Maybe he didn't do it before. All I know is he came up to the Bigs for a short time and hit. Crosby is 3 years older and has a Major League line of .216/.253/.300. So he has never done anything at the Major League level and has had more chances to do it. And Josh Hamilton hasn't done a damn thing above A ball. To say that those two are equal or better than Hopper is asinine. Did Hopper take your lunch money as a kid or something? Because I for the life of me cannot figure out what seems to be out and out hatred of Norris Hopper. He may be a 5th OF but for what he did at the Major League level last season he deserves a shot in Spring Training to make the Reds 25 man roster. Josh Hamilton needs to stay clean and work his way through the minors and prove to be the phenom everyone says he could be. Bubba Crosby needs to be changing the oil in my car.

Highlifeman21
12-31-2006, 04:19 PM
You mean the same way he misused Guardado and kept the Reds in the race much longer than they deserved to be?

And you are absolutely right Phillips should be hitting 6th. So should EE, Dunn, and Jr. at this point.

And my God?!? Hopper is a slap hitter OK? No power? Fine. But we are talking AAA All-Star here. 98 games at Louisville and steals 25 bases and hits .347. Goes up to Cincy and gets to play in 21 games. 39 AB's and winds up with a line of .359/.435/.462. That's called good hitting. Maybe he didn't do it before. All I know is he came up to the Bigs for a short time and hit. Crosby is 3 years older and has a Major League line of .216/.253/.300. So he has never done anything at the Major League level and has had more chances to do it. And Josh Hamilton hasn't done a damn thing above A ball. To say that those two are equal or better than Hopper is asinine. Did Hopper take your lunch money as a kid or something? Because I for the life of me cannot figure out what seems to be out and out hatred of Norris Hopper. He may be a 5th OF but for what he did at the Major League level last season he deserves a shot in Spring Training to make the Reds 25 man roster. Josh Hamilton needs to stay clean and work his way through the minors and prove to be the phenom evryone says he could be. Bubba Crosby needs to be changing the oil in my car.


1. You're right, Bubba Crosby should be at a Jiffy Lube.
2. Guardado was damaged goods and I'm surprised we got as many IP from him as we did.
3. EE and Dunn were WAY more productive than Phillips last year even with him having a career year. Griffey? He'll bat between 3-5 whether we like it or not.
4. 39 AB's and winds up with a line of .359/.435/.462. That's called good hitting. No, that's called small sample size. Norris Hopper is a career minor leaguer. He will continue to be a AAA All-Star b/c he will play 100+ games in AAA this year.
5. Josh Hamilton has to be on the 25 man roster b/c he was a Rule 5 pick up, unless he's "injured" during ST. Unless that phantom injury happens, get used to Hamilton in Cincinnati.
6. If neither Freel nor Denorfia are traded prior to Opening Day, Hopper still projects as 6th on the depth chart after Dunn, Griffey, Denorfia, Freel and Hamilton. I know we like to carry 3 catches, but 6 OF would be ridiculous.
7. Norris Hopper did not take my lunch money. I don't let AAA players take my lunch money.

I'm not sure the origin of your Norris Hopper manlove, but the guy just isn't that good. He's a less power smarter baserunner version of Reggie Taylor, that's it.

Are you related to Norris Hopper?

pahster
12-31-2006, 04:23 PM
Hopper will likely get a shot at making the roster, deservedly or not. His career minor league numbers are less than inspiring - .290/.345/.337/.682

And EE and Dunn as six hitters? Maybe for the Yankees.

Handofdeath
12-31-2006, 04:35 PM
1. You're right, Bubba Crosby should be at a Jiffy Lube.
2. Guardado was damaged goods and I'm surprised we got as many IP from him as we did.
3. EE and Dunn were WAY more productive than Phillips last year even with him having a career year. Griffey? He'll bat between 3-5 whether we like it or not.
4. 39 AB's and winds up with a line of .359/.435/.462. That's called good hitting. No, that's called small sample size. Norris Hopper is a career minor leaguer. He will continue to be a AAA All-Star b/c he will play 100+ games in AAA this year.
5. Josh Hamilton has to be on the 25 man roster b/c he was a Rule 5 pick up, unless he's "injured" during ST. Unless that phantom injury happens, get used to Hamilton in Cincinnati.
6. If neither Freel nor Denorfia are traded prior to Opening Day, Hopper still projects as 6th on the depth chart after Dunn, Griffey, Denorfia, Freel and Hamilton. I know we like to carry 3 catches, but 6 OF would be ridiculous.
7. Norris Hopper did not take my lunch money. I don't let AAA players take my lunch money.

I'm not sure the origin of your Norris Hopper manlove, but the guy just isn't that good. He's a less power smarter baserunner version of Reggie Taylor, that's it.

Are you related to Norris Hopper?

Related? No. No one in my family would name their child Norris. I have no manlove for Hopper. I have manlove for good hitting. Small sample size or not.

Gashouse
01-08-2007, 06:30 PM
And he had Hatteberg at #1 for 1B. And good lord, doesn't the guy know how to use spell check? That is the sloppiest piece of work I have seen in more ways than one. Juan Encarnacion #2 RF?. I'm sorry, but the only thing this guy can convince me of is that he never took a typing class in school.

Based on his spelling mistakes? Or that you don't agree with them? Why not read how he came to his conclusion before dismissing the results? It's worth noting that most of his findings matched up well with Mitchel Lichtman's UZR ratings that are considered to be one of the best fielding measures.