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View Full Version : RedsZone Hall of Fame, Version 2006-07 - Shortstops



Cyclone792
12-27-2006, 06:23 PM
Vote for all SHORTSTOPS you believe should be in the RedsZone Hall of Fame. This is a multiple-choice poll so you're allowed to vote for more than one player.

For reference purposes: Major League Baseball Hall of Fame Shortstops (http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers_and_honorees/lists/pos&SS.htm)

Previously Elected Shortstops: Luke Appling, Ernie Banks, Lou Boudreau, Joe Cronin, Bill Dahlen, George Davis, Pee Wee Reese, Ozzie Smith, Arky Vaughan, Honus Wagner, & Robin Yount

Dropped From Ballot: Dick Bartell, Donie Bush, Dick Groat, Johnny Logan, Marty Marion, Ed McKean, Roger Peckinpaugh, Gary Templeton, & Cecil Travis

Players from earlier eras may be lesser known among some RedsZone voters, but in the efforts of encouraging everybody to vote while also maintaining a somewhat level playing field for all eligible candidates, we've instituted a tier system for support needed to gain election ...

Negro Leaguers: Need 3/8 support
19th century (i.e. pre 1903): Need 2/5 support
Early Modern (roughly 1903-1945): Need 1/2 support
Integration (roughly 1945-1970): Need 5/8 support
Post Integration (roughly 1970-present): Need 2/3 support

The charts below are win shares data for all candidates. In order from left to right, the columns are career win shares, five-year peak win shares, win shares per 162 games, win shares during a player's top season and the predominant era each player played in (for purposes of the tier voting system). Happy voting!


Player Career WS Peak WS WS per 162 Top Season Era
Luis Aparicio 293 92 18.26 22 Integration
Dave Bancroft 269 115 22.78 31 Early Modern to WWII
Bert Campaneris 280 109 19.48 29 Post Integration
Ray Chapman 148 99 22.81 30 Early Modern to WWII
Dave Concepcion 269 111 17.52 25 Post Integration
Al Dark 226 118 20.03 28 Integration
Art Fletcher 218 116 23.04 27 Early Modern to WWII
Jim Fregosi 261 135 22.23 33 Integration
Jack Glasscock 261 108 24.36 27 19th Century
Travis Jackson 211 109 20.64 24 Early Modern to WWII
Hughie Jennings 214 150 26.98 36 19th Century
Eddie Joost* 209 126 21.51 35 Integration
Pop Lloyd --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Herman Long 265 120 22.91 29 19th Century
Dick Lundy --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------

* Missed playing time due to WWII




Player Career WS Peak WS WS per 162 Top Season Era
Rabbit Maranville 302 110 18.32 27 Early Modern to WWII
Dobie Moore --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Johnny Pesky* 187 130 23.85 34 Integration
Rico Petrocelli 205 125 21.38 37 Post Integration
Bill Riggins --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Cal Ripken, Jr. 436 160 23.54 37 Post Integration
Phil Rizzuto* 231 121 22.53 35 Integration
Joe Sewell 277 125 23.58 29 Early Modern to WWII
Vern Stephens 265 129 24.96 34 Integration
Joe Tinker 258 118 23.18 32 Early Modern to WWII
Alan Trammell 318 132 22.47 35 Post Integration
Bobby Wallace 345 112 23.45 26 Early Modern to WWII
Monte Ward** 409 188 36.31 51 19th Century
Willie Wells --------------- NEGRO LEAGUES ----------------------------------
Maury Wills 253 128 21.11 32 Integration

* Missed playing time due to WWII
** Accumulated 42 percent of his win shares as a pitcher

westofyou
12-27-2006, 06:44 PM
Monte Ward was more Tony Phillips then a world class SS wouldn't you say? His window as a FT SS was a small window in between pitching and playing league president and second base after that.

Glasscock, the Judas of the Players League and Rabbit both get my vote.

Cyclone792
12-27-2006, 06:54 PM
Monte Ward was more Tony Phillips then a world class SS wouldn't you say? His window as a FT SS was a small window in between pitching and playing league president and second base after that.

Glasscock, the Judas of the Players League and Rabbit both get my vote.

Yea, I'd say that's pretty much right about Ward. I was just stuck in the conundrum of what position to label him as. He's an odd player with seven seasons as a shortstop, six as a pitcher, and three more as a second baseman. He was above average everywhere he went, though not necessarily terribly dominant anywhere.

I haven't voted yet, but Pop Lloyd and Willie Wells are the two Negro Leaguers I absolutely plan on voting for. Lloyd may be one of the greatest players in baseball history that many people have never even heard of.

chicoruiz
12-27-2006, 09:10 PM
Voted for Ripken, Lloyd, Ward (beacuse I'm guessing this will be my only chance to vote for him), and Herman Long. Long won't make it, and that's OK with me; I'm sure WOY knows more about him than I do and WOY didn't vote for him. But he's an underappreciated player in my book (as are several of the Boston Beaneaters) and I just wanted the opportunity to mention him.

westofyou
12-27-2006, 10:02 PM
Voted for Ripken, Lloyd, Ward (beacuse I'm guessing this will be my only chance to vote for him), and Herman Long. Long won't make it, and that's OK with me; I'm sure WOY knows more about him than I do and WOY didn't vote for him. But he's an underappreciated player in my book (as are several of the Boston Beaneaters) and I just wanted the opportunity to mention him.

I would put Long in the Travis Jackson/Cecil Travis range, steady SS who experienced career years in a huge hitters era. But true, he is overlooked. As is the 1890 Beaneaters, how fast they lost the town the Red Sox a decade later.

Cyclone792
01-03-2007, 04:50 PM
There's been lots of discussion about Davey Concepcion's merits for the National Baseball Hall of Fame ... maybe he'll make the RedsZone Hall of Fame.

Here's my ballot, which includes the two greatest Negro League shortstops in Pop Lloyd and Willie Wells ...

Davey Concepcion
Hughie Jennings
Pop Lloyd
Rabbit Maranville
Cal Ripken, Jr.
Alan Trammell
Bobby Wallace
Monte Ward
Willie Wells

This poll will be open until January 10th so there's still plenty of time to vote.

Highlifeman21
01-04-2007, 07:56 PM
There's been lots of discussion about Davey Concepcion's merits for the National Baseball Hall of Fame ... maybe he'll make the RedsZone Hall of Fame.

Here's my ballot, which includes the two greatest Negro League shortstops in Pop Lloyd and Willie Wells ...

Davey Concepcion
Hughie Jennings
Pop Lloyd
Rabbit Maranville
Cal Ripken, Jr.
Alan Trammell
Bobby Wallace
Monte Ward
Willie Wells

This poll will be open until January 10th so there's still plenty of time to vote.

IMO, Concepcion was too much a glove man and didn't carry a big enough stick to warrant HOF enshrinement. I just don't think his D was enough to push him over the edge to compensate for the lack of O. His bat was never a liability, but I just don't see him as a top 15 SS of all time, and I think that will ultimately hurt his HOF chances.

Big Klu
01-11-2007, 01:09 AM
I realize that I am late, and you have every right to throw my ballot out altogether, but if possible I would like to vote for:

Aparicio, Concepcion, Jennings, Maranville, Pesky, Ripken, Rizzuto, Sewell, Stephens, Trammell, and Ward.


Again, I'm sorry that I'm late--I've never missed a ballot, and I hope mine can be included.

Also, I'm saddened by the total lack of support for Joe Sewell, who deserves better than to be shut out.

Cyclone792
01-11-2007, 01:21 AM
I realize that I am late, and you have every right to throw my ballot out altogether, but if possible I would like to vote for:

Aparicio, Concepcion, Jennings, Maranville, Pesky, Ripken, Rizzuto, Sewell, Stephens, Trammell, and Ward.


Again, I'm sorry that I'm late--I've never missed a ballot, and I hope mine can be included.

Also, I'm saddened by the total lack of support for Joe Sewell, who deserves better than to be shut out.

No worries, I've included it! Your ballot actually played a pretty big role as your vote for Rabbit Maranville was the vote he needed for election. He was one vote short before your ballot.

In addition to Maranville being elected, Cal Ripken, Jr. was also elected, and the fine voters at RedsZone elected Cal with a unanimous 100 percent vote. Imagine that, RedsZone voters just did something that the BBWAA couldn't do. Ripken is the third unanimous selection, joining Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan.

The total number of shortstops in the RedsZone Hall of Fame is now 13:


Shortstops (13)

Luke Appling
Ernie Banks
Lou Boudreau
Joe Cronin
Bill Dahlen
George Davis
Rabbit Maranville
Pee Wee Reese
Cal Ripken, Jr.
Ozzie Smith
Arky Vaughan
Honus Wagner
Robin Yount

The Left Fielders Ballot (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53793) is now open and will remain open until January 22nd. I'll probably get the center fielder ballot up next week also so keep a watch for that.