PDA

View Full Version : Will Concepcion Get the Plaque?



Rex Argos
12-29-2006, 08:21 PM
http://concepcionforcooperstown.org/

ESPN has had a number of HOF discussions this week. This link was mentioned in an article that discussed a high-tech approach to lobbying for one's favorite players.

I love Davey--but I don't see how he will get in. Ozzie dominated the era defensively in the minds and hearts of the sportwriters.

Z-Fly
12-29-2006, 08:43 PM
The Wizard was overhyped... I don't know that I can honestly say that, being too young to see him play.

cincinnati chili
12-29-2006, 09:22 PM
The only plaque he's going to get is at the confluence of his teeth and gums.

George Anderson
12-29-2006, 09:25 PM
http://concepcionforcooperstown.org/

ESPN has had a number of HOF discussions this week. This link was mentioned in an article that discussed a high-tech approach to lobbying for one's favorite players.

I love Davey --but I don't see how he will get in. Ozzie dominated the era defensively in the minds and hearts of the sportwriters.

I love Davey to, but if AlanTrammel cant get in then I dont have alot of hope for him. Maybe in several years the sportswriters will induct him but anymore they have been stingy as to who gets in.

I think for now the Reds need to at the very least officially retire his #13!!

savafan
12-29-2006, 09:28 PM
I love Davey to, but if AlanTrammel cant get in then I dont have alot of hope for him. Maybe in several years the sportswriters will induct him but anymore they have been stingy as to who gets in.



It makes me wonder how many of these sports writers who get to vote on the HOF today actually saw many of these guys play?

Red in Chicago
12-29-2006, 09:43 PM
The only plaque he's going to get is at the confluence of his teeth and gums.

Unfortunately, you're right, in that he won't get voted in. I however, believe that this is a bad case in judgement by the voters.

Unassisted
12-29-2006, 10:10 PM
I heard today that 40% of Americans weren't alive when Gerald Ford was President. That also means the same percentage weren't alive to see Davey at his peak. Most likely, all of the HOF voters were alive then, but I still don't think it bodes well for him getting in.

Danny Serafini
12-29-2006, 10:52 PM
He's got a better chance of getting the plague than the plaque. It's wrong, but unfortunately it's reality.

paulrichjr
12-30-2006, 02:12 AM
I think for now the Reds need to at the very least officially retire his #13!!

This was asked of Cast at the RedsFest conference on Concepcion and he stated in fairly certain terms that it would be happening.

Always Red
12-30-2006, 02:47 AM
He will not get in until the oldtimers committee votes him in, someday in the future. :(

But he should be in, and now. :)

He changed the way the position of SS was played in MLB, pure and simple. :thumbup:

Dave Concepcion remains the most under-rated member of the Big Red Machine.

But not to me. :beerme:

RedsBaron
12-30-2006, 07:20 AM
I love Davey to, but if AlanTrammel cant get in then I dont have alot of hope for him. Maybe in several years the sportswriters will induct him but anymore they have been stingy as to who gets in.

I think for now the Reds need to at the very least officially retire his #13!!

I believe the list of eligible shortstops who deserve induction into the Hall of Fame begins with Trammell, once Cal Ripken Jr. is voted into the HOF next month. If Trammell doesn't make it, Davey won't.
I would have held out hope that the veterans committee would eventually induct Davey, but the way the committee is presently constituted, that appears unlikely. The committee now includes all current players in the HOF, and hasn't voted to induct anybody. Mike Schmidt recently observed that he attitude of HOF players appears to be one of wanting to make the honor as exclusive as possible, since they are already in the Hall, and that the players are taking the attitude that if a candidate couldn't be elected by the media, then the candidate clearly doesn't deserve induction. I expect Schmidt's observation is correct, and it ironically gives the media credit for much greater wisdom than athletes usually are willing to concede.

mth123
12-30-2006, 07:26 AM
I heard today that 40% of Americans weren't alive when Gerald Ford was President. That also means the same percentage weren't alive to see Davey at his peak. Most likely, all of the HOF voters were alive then, but I still don't think it bodes well for him getting in.

Agree. A lot of these guys may have been around then, but probably didn't become sophisticated fans (some still aren't) until after the SS spot became a place for some power guys. I don't think the voters will be smart enough to see through the era of clean-up hitters playing SS to recognize that Concepcion was the best SS of his era.

MrCinatit
12-30-2006, 09:09 AM
He should, but he will not. I certainly don't have the numbers anywhere near, but I don't think he has been at all close in previous years. Nothing will change that.
And, unfortunately, I believe RedsBaron is right about the veterans committee. They do not seem interested at all in allowing others into their inner circle, which is too bad. With the new voting rules there, Veterans Committee voting practices have become even worse than they previously were, at least in my opinion.

RANDY IN INDY
12-30-2006, 10:56 AM
It makes me wonder how many of these sports writers who get to vote on the HOF today actually saw many of these guys play?

:beerme:

Will M
12-30-2006, 11:29 PM
I look at the Hall of Fame based on a players peak years, not the padding the stats that gets players 3000 hits, 500 HRs, 300 wins, etc

Concepcion was the best shortstop in the NL from the early 1970s to the early 1980s. He was a nine time All Star. This makes him a Hall of Famer in by book.

I also agree that he won't get in :(

The era of steroids/expansion/small ballparks made SS another offense first position ( hopefully the pendulum will start swinging the other way ).
Back in the 1970s SS was a defensive position and Davey was the best.
The fact that he could also contribute offensively is what made him a great player.

jmac
12-31-2006, 12:14 AM
The things Davey Concepcion brings to mind are:
1: the beautiful bounce throw as only davey could do it
2: the grin/smile running back to the dugout
3: the little knob he used to choke up

didnt he hit third some for the reds following the Big Red Machine years?

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 12:42 AM
The Hall definitely has some issues in who gets in and who doesn't. It has almost turned into a popularity contest with writers voting for guys they liked over more deserving players because of past relationships. Many writers don't even bother doing basic research on candidates anymore. One writer suggested it was like voting for the President you just know which one to choose. I really think that the writers with HOF votes should have some criteria for voting players in. They also should publish who they voted for so they can be held accountable and have their votes taken away if necessary. Doing this may make it easier to answer the question of whether or not guys like Goose, Rice, Bert, and Davey deserve to be in.

George Anderson
12-31-2006, 02:09 AM
The things Davey Concepcion brings to mind are:
1: the beautiful bounce throw as only davey could do it
2: the grin/smile running back to the dugout
3: the little knob he used to choke up

didnt he hit third some for the reds following the Big Red Machine years?

Davey hit third quite a bit following the Big Red Machine years. Especially 1982 and after when the teams were really bad and he was one of the few bright spots.

RANDY IN INDY
12-31-2006, 10:00 AM
At shortstop, Davey was poetry in motion. He moved so smoothly and fluidly and made nearly every play look effortless. Because of that, he probably didn't get the recognition he deserved because everything looked easy. He had soft hands, covered vast amounts of ground with his huge stride and put most every throw on the money with a strong arm.

I remember how overmatched he was with the bat when he first came up. As he matured, he became a real good major league hitter. His talent and accomplishments were surely overshadowed by his Big Red Machine Teammates.

Smith may have been flashier, but in my mind, nobody was better than Davey Concepcion when he was at his best. He played the position as easily as anyone I have ever seen. Anyone who has ever played the position would realize how well he played it and how easy he made it look. No question in my mind that he is a Hall of Famer.

RFS62
12-31-2006, 10:22 AM
At shortstop, Davey was poetry in motion. He moved so smoothly and fluidly and made nearly every play look effortless. Because of that, he probably didn't get the recognition he deserved because everything looked easy. He had soft hands, covered vast amounts of ground with his huge stride and put most every throw on the money with a strong arm.





Yep, if he had been as flashy as Maz, he might have a chance. But he was rock solid dependable instead. It would take a vote much like Maz's to get him in, ignoring the numbers and heavily weighing anecdotal evidence.

I don't think he'll ever get in.

redsmetz
12-31-2006, 10:32 AM
I found this little excerpt in an ESPN story about promoting Hall of Fame candidacies


Tim Gay, once an aide to former West Virginia Senator Jay Rockefeller, now works as a communications consultant in Washington, D.C. He has written a biography of Tris Speaker, and helped plan a forum in Pittsburgh last summer with author David Maraniss on the legacy of Roberto Clemente. That caught the attention of Concepcion, who gave his blessing for Gay to begin a Hall campaign.

Concepcion made nine All-Star teams and won five Gold Gloves, but was overshadowed by Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan, Pete Rose and even the understated Tony Perez on the Big Red Machine teams of the 1970s. Since he had a minimal grasp of English, it was easy for the writers to shortchange him.

Gay's Web site shows how Concepcion's statistics compare favorably with those of Ozzie Smith, Phil Rizzuto, Pee Wee Reese and other Hall of Fame shortstops. He's making the case for a player whose profile never quite matched his achievements.

"Davey is kind of a modest, retiring guy, and his command of English back then wasn't great," Gay said. "In that era, unfortunately, Latinos tended to be overlooked and underappreciated. There were games when Davey would drive in the winning run or make a couple of spectacular defensive plays, and the reporters and cameras in the clubhouse would hang around Rose or Bench or Morgan's locker getting quotes."

Concepcion received 31 votes, or 6.8 percent, in his first year on the ballot. He peaked with 80 votes, or slightly less than 17 percent, in 1998. He's revered in his native Venezuela, where a statue was built in his honor outside the ballpark in Maracay, and Venezuelan business interests have helped sponsor his Hall of Fame lobbying effort. But since Concepcion decided to return home years ago, he's been out of sight and out of mind for voters.

Not this year. Concepcion shook hands and signed autographs at the Redsfest celebration in Cincinnati in early December, and Reds broadcaster Marty Brennaman wrote an editorial in the Cincinnati Enquirer supporting his Hall candidacy. "Davey was the engine that made the machine go and go," wrote Brennaman.

The link to the full story is at

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hof07/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=2713749

mth123
12-31-2006, 10:33 AM
Yep, if he had been as flashy as Maz, he might have a chance. But he was rock solid dependable instead. It would take a vote much like Maz's to get him in, ignoring the numbers and heavily weighing anecdotal evidence.

I don't think he'll ever get in.

A game winning WS homer helps when the vote is not purely stat based.

RANDY IN INDY
12-31-2006, 01:53 PM
The more I watch the Hall of Fame process, and the folks who are responsible for voting, the more I lose interest in the whole thing. Sad that some of the true Hall of Famer's are never going to be where they rightly belong.

Highlifeman21
12-31-2006, 03:26 PM
Larkin has a better shot at the HOF than Concepcion ever will and I have a very bad feeling Larkin will never get voted in by the writers.

The V Committee maybe, but the writers, never.

It's a shame that the power of Reds SS tradition went from Concepcion to Larkin to ..... Alex Gonzalez?

RANDY IN INDY
12-31-2006, 06:16 PM
Lopez was never going to be able to hold up that tradition, either. Tough shoes to fill.

Johnny Footstool
01-01-2007, 03:18 PM
Comparing Davey to Ozzie isn't fair. Ozzie was flashy AND solid -- he deserved all the hype he got. There's Ozzie, then there's everyone else.

Davey was a tick below Ozzie, but still HOF caliber, IMO.