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View Full Version : Bengals vs. Steelers - Week 17



RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:09 PM
Well so far we have seen some not so smart plays...

(1) Steelers try a strange looking "reverse" on the kickoff. Looked more like mass confusion drawn up by a coordinator that should not be in the NFL. Santonio Holmes gets tackled quickly at the 8 yard line.

(2) After the play above... Caleb Miller delivers a forearm blow to Holmes who fumbled after being blown down. Ref rightly calls a 15-yarder for the blow.

(3) Bengals use a D timeout on 3rd-and-5 b/c they have too many men on the field. D'oh!

Go Bengals!

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:15 PM
Bengals stop them on their 1st drive. A decent drive, 9 plays and 5:00 of clock, but no points. Pittsburgh punts and the Bengals let them down it around the 15-yard-line.

Not much of a pass rush for the Bengals. Spmething we have seen a lot this year. Good coverage bailed them out on the last third down which was incomplete due to a knockdown by Jonathan Joseph.

WMR
12-31-2006, 02:16 PM
Could the Bengals be any dumber?

If I didn't know better I'd think they were doing it on purpose.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:17 PM
Holy... Palmer throws 2 bombs on their 1st two plays. Both incomplete as the Steelers have good coverage. Now he completes 3rd-and-10 play to TJ for a 1st down and 23 yards.

WMR
12-31-2006, 02:18 PM
Palmer just got shoved down. Steelers are going to blitz all day.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:20 PM
Yep, Carson needs to look for TEs and RBs on those blitzes (ala Peyton!). Steelers stop the Bengals on 3rd-and-11 as Palmer completes a short pass to Chris Henry.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 02:21 PM
That first play of the game, is a microcosm of the Bengals season on and off the field. No self-discipline. To drag a guy backward using his jersey, then putting a forearm under his face mask, they are lucky they did not get ejected.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:23 PM
Kyle Larson boots the punt into the endzone for a touchback. I get frustrated with the non-existent coffin corner attempt sometimes. Not easy, but anything beyond the 20-yard-line is okay. If you get paid to punt a football, I'd think you should be able to practice it and get decent at it. Downing it and getting a good bounce to do it is a tough thing to do as well.

Give me a pass rush this time!

remdog
12-31-2006, 02:25 PM
Jets lead Oak., 7-0.

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 02:26 PM
That first play of the game, is a microcosm of the Bengals season on and off the field. No self-discipline. To drag a guy backward using his jersey, then putting a forearm under his face mask, they are lucky they did not get ejected.

I THOUGHT Caleb Miller was a smart guy... made his own submission for Top 10 Dumbest Bengal-related happening of the year on that play.

And the Jets have just scored a TD.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:27 PM
Geez... thanks for throwing Steelers (and I was worried about a pass rush). 15 yards on the 1st three plays rushing. Then Ben tries to go deep into double coverage and Tory James gets an easy pickoff. Returns it to around the 50-yard-line. 1st-and-10 Bengals!

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:29 PM
Jets lead Oak., 7-0.

Rem

NO! :bang:

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:32 PM
Bengals go 3 and out... despite great field position. Then Larson shows off his great leg (again) by booting it 8 yards deep into the endzone. GRRR!

Luckily the Steelers commit an illegal block penalty while the kick was in the air and the Steelers will start at their own 10-yard-line.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:37 PM
Willie Parker running over the Bengals D. 9 rushes for 45 yards thus far. Steelers are moving the ball on this drive. Ben throws to a wide open Cedric Wilson for another 1st down.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:40 PM
Another reverse to Justin Smith's side (4 of them last week vs. Denver). Good for 9 yards by Hines Ward. 2-and-1 on about the 28-yard-line as the 1st quarter ends. Not a good quarter for the Bengals... but still a scoreless game.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 02:44 PM
Both of these teams were better last year....a lot better.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:45 PM
Big 3-and-4 conversion by the Steelers (Ben to Ward for just enough). 1st-and-10 at the 13.

MrCinatit
12-31-2006, 02:45 PM
I hope I am wrong, but I see absolutely no way the Bengals win this game. They don't have it in them.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:46 PM
Parker runs through a hole big enough for a Mack truck. 1st-and-goal at the 1-yard-line for the Steelers. :(

TD for Parker. Defense? Where is it?

WMR
12-31-2006, 02:48 PM
SHOOOOWHEEEEE Man oh man the squealers did whatever they wanted whenever they wanted wherever they wanted on that drive.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 02:48 PM
I hope I am wrong, but I see absolutely no way the Bengals win this game. They don't have it in them.

Heart? I worried about this prior to the game. So far the heart seems like a distant thing for our Bengals. I hope it starts beating soon.

remdog
12-31-2006, 02:49 PM
Oak kicks a field goal. 7-3 Jets.

Rem

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 03:01 PM
3rd-and-9 for the Steelers. 32 plays for Steelers, 12 for the Benagls thus far. 12 1st downs to 1 thus far. Bengals get a sack! Punt for the Steelers.

WMR
12-31-2006, 03:01 PM
I love seeing Roethlisberger get hit.

WMR
12-31-2006, 03:06 PM
TJ has been the overall best receiver for the Bengals this season and, IMO, it's not even close.

Patrick Bateman
12-31-2006, 03:06 PM
KC up 14-10 over the Jags.

The Bengals can still make it if KC wins and Denver loses (assuming the Bengals win obviously)

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 03:11 PM
2:00 warning. 1st-and-10 at the 19-yard-line for the Bengals who have finally seen the Red Zone.

remdog
12-31-2006, 03:15 PM
Jets kick a field goal. 10-3, Jets at the half.

Rem

Patrick Bateman
12-31-2006, 03:18 PM
KC with another TD. 21-10.

Dom Heffner
12-31-2006, 03:19 PM
What in the heck is going on up there in Cincy? Was that 3 penalties in a row?

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 03:21 PM
1st-and goal at the 6. Bengals run for zero, false start, false start (center forgets to snap the ball), pass for zero yards and then an incompletion.

Graham w/ a 34-yard FG. On the bright side it was a good snap.

WMR
12-31-2006, 03:22 PM
Worst offensive half of the season for the Bengals?

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 03:27 PM
Worst offensive half of the season for the Bengals?

Gets my vote. Last week's 2nd half compared, but at least that was on the road. Tampa Bay week was pretty bad too.

WMR
12-31-2006, 03:38 PM
holy crap was that a suplex on Chad Johnson? (not great with the WWE-lingo)

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 03:41 PM
Geez... 2nd-and-1 and the Bengals end up punting. Run up the middle for no gain and then Carson gets slammed and is forced to throw a bad pass. Nice play-calling and/or execution there, Bengals.

Then... Larson almost gets one downed at the 1-yard-line, but it goes into the endzone. His net average isn't too hot. God forbid you try for the sideline. God forbid!

remdog
12-31-2006, 03:41 PM
Jets with another field goal. 13-3 Jets.

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 03:43 PM
Solomon Wilcots: "Ben Roethlisberger is VERY mobile."

Huh?

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 03:47 PM
As in many football games this game is being decided in the trenches. Bengals not run blocking or giving Carson much time. Steelers' Parker with a good day so far and Ben not getting much pressure. Bengals are lucky it is only 7-3.

WMR
12-31-2006, 03:51 PM
This is not football.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 03:56 PM
Kiewan Ratliff. North-South... not East-West. Punt returning 101. Learn it or get out of town. :angry:

dougdirt
12-31-2006, 03:57 PM
This team leaves me disappointed and frustrated.....

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:04 PM
Larson gets one downed at the 1-yard-line. Sorry for ripping on you for the other 6 kicks that didn't work out. ;)

99-yard-drives by underperforming offenses make me nervous. Turnover needed here. The offense is running on about a 1/2 of a cylinder today.

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:05 PM
Jets with a touchdown. 20-3 Jets.

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:07 PM
Dexter Jackson please turn in your Super Bowl MVP trophy.

HOW DID HE MISS THAT SAFETY??? WOW.

Haha, Solomon propping statuesque Ben's mobility yet again after Dexter's whiff.

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:11 PM
30-40% of this roster as it currently stands should absolutely not be on this roster in September of 07.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:11 PM
Steelers are shoving the Bengals around at this point. What is the record for consecutive games with giving up a 99-yard-drive?!?

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:14 PM
Did anyone else see Tory James on that screen to Hines Ward? He had no interest whatsoever in trying to tackle Hines Ward. He was perfectly content to keep hold of his receiver's shoulder pads even after he clearly saw Hines receive the ball.

MrCinatit
12-31-2006, 04:15 PM
30-40% of this roster as it currently stands should absolutely not be on this roster in September of 07.


There should only be one person from the coaching staff left at the end of the season. And that one person, Lewis, should be on extremely thin ice.
For a team to have gone into so many games with such a poor attitude is excuseless.

Joseph
12-31-2006, 04:21 PM
Well at least the Jets are winning so it's not like they gave it up like a drunk girl at prom for no reason.....or something.

Joseph
12-31-2006, 04:22 PM
Wow, no sooner did I speak then did we recover a fumble.

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:24 PM
Hahahahahahaha !!!

LOL That's the BUNGLES for ya!

Who dey

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:24 PM
WOW! Chris Henry with a great play. 66 yards for a TD!!

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:26 PM
1 yard from "game over". New game.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 04:26 PM
There are people who actually spent hard earned money to watch this crap in the rain...wow! I swear if you gave me suit tickets it would not be worth fighting the traffic to see this in person. A meaningless game.

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:26 PM
OK. 12:20 to play some serious defense and at least prolong the chances. KC is winning. Go KC, go SF.

Rem

George Foster
12-31-2006, 04:29 PM
ok, someone who knows please explain how the Bengals get in the playoffs if the Jets win? thanks I know it is sort of complicated

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:30 PM
Who's the best pass-rushing DE in next year's draft? If that slots up anywhere close to the Bengals draft position, it should be a no-brainer.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:30 PM
Pass rush?!? Is this in the Bengals dictionary?

Bengals get in if KC beats JAX & SF beats Denver.

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:30 PM
ok, someone who knows please explain how the Bengals get in the playoffs if the Jets win? thanks I know it is sort of complicated

KC win and Denver loss

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 04:33 PM
I suppose the only silver lining to this debacle is there is no way Chuck Bresnahan has a job next year.

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:34 PM
Disregard my last comment.

Rem

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:35 PM
The Ronco Steelers slice-and-dice right through the Bengals defense for a TD. 14-10, PITT.

All started with a bad kickoff.

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:37 PM
Hahahahahahaha !!!

LOL That's the BUNGLES for ya!

Who dey

Hahaha, see this quote works for this year's Bengals whether they are scoring or being scored upon.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 04:37 PM
I'm I the only one who thinks that maybe Marvin might be a little over rated?

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 04:38 PM
What an absolutely hopeless franchise. The players change, but the choking and the mistakes repeat themselves year after year.

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:40 PM
I'm I the only one who thinks that maybe Marvin might be a little over rated?


If the Bengals lose today Marvin will have produced 8-8 teams in 3 out of his 4 seasons. The first year was obviously a step up, the second I'd rate as slight forward movement. This year is a definate step back, even if the Bengals pull this one out.

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:41 PM
You can tell the Stealers would love to end Carson Palmer's career.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:42 PM
A cheap shot on Carson? Deja vu. :(

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:42 PM
I really didn't need to see that again.

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 04:42 PM
I am not watching--how bad is the injury?

pedro
12-31-2006, 04:42 PM
what happened? Not on TV here.

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:43 PM
They are showing the Jets celebrating making the playoffs here. Could have been the Bengals. (shaking head)

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:43 PM
I am not watching--how bad is the injury?

Looks like he just got the wind knocked out of him but Farrior picked him up and planted him as hard as he could with as much emphasis as he could muster.

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:44 PM
Carson is back in the game after Anthony Wright takes the obligatory single snap.

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:45 PM
PASS INTERFERENCE -- Stealers DB draped over Chris Henry

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:45 PM
3rd-and-8... Henry gets held by the Steelers defense. Pass interference... even better! 1st-and-goal at the 7!

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:45 PM
1st and goal

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:45 PM
Rudy drives inside the 5

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:46 PM
CBS just changed to the Bengals game. Come on Bengals!

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:46 PM
Stewart makes the completion... no gain

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:47 PM
Good lord... 3-yd run by Rudi. Zero yards on a pass to Stewart.

THEN A TD! Tony Stewart from Palmer. Took a long time.

WMR
12-31-2006, 04:47 PM
TD BENGALS

TD Tony Stewart!!!!

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:48 PM
In case you wonder... low snap, but Larson gets it down and Graham puts it through the uprights. 17-14, Bengals.

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:49 PM
Yeah, I thought that snap was very shakey.

Rem

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:50 PM
DE-Fense... DE-Fense. Please.

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:50 PM
2:47 left. How about some D guys!

Rem

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:51 PM
Didn't hear it, but why did the Bengals kick from the 45-yard-line there? That helps.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:54 PM
Geez. 35-yard pass play to Holmes. Steelers slicing right through the Bengals D... again. Their only fault might be doing it too quickly. 2:00 warning.

Playadlc
12-31-2006, 04:54 PM
Seriously, if every single defensive coach isn't fired after this season, than the Bengals are a joke.

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 04:54 PM
This is the worst defense I've ever seen (or heard, in this case).

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 04:57 PM
Send an all-out blitz. The lack of a pass rush makes it too hard for the DBs.

Bengals call time? Why? Talk about no confidence in your defense. :devil:

remdog
12-31-2006, 04:59 PM
I expect a fake FG try.

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:00 PM
Umm why would you waste one of your two remaining timeouts???

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:00 PM
Bengals stop them. FG try of 35-yards.

Bengals call timeout! Good lord. I don't get it. If they tie it, you need those TOs to setup a FG try to win.

Playadlc
12-31-2006, 05:01 PM
What a stupid timeout.

Marvin needs to read a book or something about how to properly use timeouts.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:01 PM
rem... :laugh:

They make it. Tie game. Bengals get it back with 1:03 left (before the kickoff) and ONLY 1 timeout.

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:02 PM
What a stupid timeout.

Marvin needs to read a book or something about how to properly use timeouts.

Seriously that was just plain retarded.

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 05:02 PM
Wait, wasn't the Steelers' third down play an incomplete pass?

What a freaking stupid decision! What is going on over on that sideline?

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:03 PM
Decent return by Holt to the 33-yard-line. Need about 35 yards for a legit try.

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:04 PM
CATCH CHRIS HENRY!!!

First down at the 20

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:04 PM
YES! Bomb to Henry. Bengals have it on the 20 yard line!!! 0:22 left!

macro
12-31-2006, 05:06 PM
With that penalty, a 43-yard attempt just became a 48-yard attempt.

EDIT: Okay, never mind. They called timeout before the flag.

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:06 PM
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME....

the bengals allow the play clock to expire

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:06 PM
Bengals spike the ball to stop the clock and then fail to snap it on time. Maroons!

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:06 PM
they're changing it to a called timeout... wow, good thing we couldn't have used that extra timeout right about now.

duh marvin.

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:07 PM
What! Tney called time-out?

Rem

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:07 PM
Geez!!! Delay of game on the Bengals after stopping the clock with a spike. Stupidity never ceases for this team. Corrected by the refs... the Bengals use their last timeout. Their last. Saved one of those and you wouldn't have this problem. Still... you should not have been forced to use one here after you spiked it.

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:09 PM
Think Cowher will call a time-out to ice Grahm? :laugh:

Rem

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:09 PM
Wow horrible end-game and timeout management by Marvin

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:10 PM
Wow horrible end-game and timeout management by Marvin

Sam Wyche like.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:10 PM
MISSED!!! :bang:

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:10 PM
And Graham misses the L O N G FG

macro
12-31-2006, 05:11 PM
Missed FG. Nice! Very nice! :rolleyes:

Can they just get this season over with one way or another? I don't even care who wins this game, just get it over with and go home.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:11 PM
Graham is only 3-6 in game tying or game winning field goals....not exactly clutch:thumbdown

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:12 PM
Are you *%^^( me! And now they credit Cowher for 'coaching right to the end'. Is the idiot that said that Wilcotts? :bang:

Rem

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:12 PM
Better hope we win the toss. Defense not trusted.

Steelers win the toss. :help:

pedro
12-31-2006, 05:13 PM
Can't say I'm surprised at this point.

Pittsburgh wins the toss and most likely the game the way this defense plays.

Playadlc
12-31-2006, 05:13 PM
I guess that's why they pay Graham so much.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:13 PM
After the coin toss, you heard over the ref's mike... a player say to another..."yo suck this":laugh:

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:13 PM
This is where I really the college game rule on overtime better.

Rem

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 05:14 PM
Equal parts choking and poor coaching. Again.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:14 PM
Can't say I'm surprised at this point.

Pittsburgh wins the toss and most likely the game the way this defense plays.

Winner of the coin toss wins 78% of the time in the NFL

dougdirt
12-31-2006, 05:14 PM
will someone please kill me? I cant take this crap anymore.

Buckeye33
12-31-2006, 05:15 PM
I would have bet anyone in the world $500 that the Bengals were going to lose that coin toss.

Playadlc
12-31-2006, 05:15 PM
The good news is that this season is only one quarter away from being over.

I can't wait til it ends.

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:15 PM
A tie does Cincinnati no good.

Rem

macro
12-31-2006, 05:17 PM
A tie does Cincinnati no good.

Rem

Nor does a win. SF has no chance at Denver.

As for the overtime rule, it's a horrible rule. Cincinnati will lose this game without a chance to even touch the ball. Horrible rule.

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:17 PM
Season over

MrCinatit
12-31-2006, 05:18 PM
freaking increadible.

macro
12-31-2006, 05:18 PM
I hope this coaching staff and this team is proud of their 2006 season.

RedFanAlways1966
12-31-2006, 05:18 PM
Game over! Bengals go with a blitz and get burned on a short toss to Holmes who runs all the way to the endzone.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:18 PM
A perfect way to end a horrible season....Marvin is officially on probation

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 05:18 PM
That's a fitting way to end it.

Frankly, there isn't a single player on this team who should be proud of their effort. Every member of the defense, in particular, should be reevaluated.

I hate this franchise and yet am inextricably tied to it for life. Stupid sports.

pedro
12-31-2006, 05:19 PM
well that seems a rather appropriate way for this season to end for the bengals.

Playadlc
12-31-2006, 05:19 PM
Shayne Graham can be cut for all I care.

CTA513
12-31-2006, 05:19 PM
:laugh:

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:20 PM
I've never been as close to being glad to see a team that I love lose. That loss was so utterly deserved.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:20 PM
Shayne Graham can be cut for all I care.

I thought he was "golden":laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:22 PM
I thought he was "golden":laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

He's golden as long as it's not in the playoffs or necessary to get into the playoffs.

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:22 PM
It's too bad we did not have a thread for every game....this was fun. The game sucked but it's the first real thread since baseball ended.:thumbup:

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:23 PM
Now watch SF upset Denver.

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:25 PM
It's pretty pathetic when we, as fans, expect correctly to lose the coin toss and, with that, the game.:explode:

Buckeye33
12-31-2006, 05:26 PM
Anyone want to bet me Denver loses?

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:28 PM
Now watch SF upset Denver.

A perfect end to a perfect day!! Marvin has a lot of work to do, starting with his coaching staff.

I know it is very hard to do but a head coach should not have personal relationships with his other coaches. It makes it very difficult to fire them. This is why in the Army, Officers cannot mingle with the inlisted men. It makes it tougher to give orders and take orders

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 05:28 PM
Even if Denver does lose with the Bengal defense being picked apart by the opposition what would our chances have been. It is awfully hard to outscore your opponents week in and week out.

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:30 PM
Well, I'm officially a Chargers fan through the rest of the season. The Bengals could be the Chargers but they would have to replace their entire defensive team.

Rem

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:31 PM
Well, I'm officially a Chargers fan through the rest of the season. The Bengals could be the Chargers but they would have to replace their entire defensive team.

Rem

I'll be for the Saints....good story!

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:32 PM
Marvin Lewis: One winning year in four. How much have the Bengals really advanced?

Rem

WVRed
12-31-2006, 05:33 PM
Even if Denver does lose with the Bengal defense being picked apart by the opposition what would our chances have been. It is awfully hard to outscore your opponents week in and week out.

Doesnt help that Denver now knows that they dont need to win to be in the playoffs.

Keep that in mind.

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:34 PM
Marvin Lewis: One winning year in four. How much have the Bengals really advanced?

Rem

Amazing how quickly the worm can turn in the NFL, isn't it?

Joseph
12-31-2006, 05:36 PM
Marvin Lewis: One winning year in four. How much have the Bengals really advanced?

Rem

NO losing seasons in 4. How quickly we forget.

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:38 PM
NO losing seasons in 4. How quickly we forget.


Depends on which side of the coin you're viewing.

Rem

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 05:39 PM
With the talent this club has, 8-8 is totally unacceptable, especially given the repeated breakdowns on offense, defense, and special teams in the endgame.

They just aren't mentally tough. They don't finish. And that's the kind of quality the coaches have to ingrain in their minds.

The blame for this latest mess should be spread around evenly. It's easy to bash the defense, but keep in mind the offense did absolutely nothing for three quarters. The coaching decisions were awful. Marvin may talk a good game but his gameplanning and clock management still stink after four years.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-31-2006, 05:42 PM
Wow horrible end-game and timeout management by Marvin

This seems a reoccurring thing with Marvin.



IMO, he is an overrated coach on gameday, a weak to below-average evaluator of character and talent in the draft, and obviously for being a defensive-minded coach, he has failed miserable in that category in his time here. The D actually has regressed.

Next year, with an easier schedule and hopefully a new D coordinator, the Bengals will make it back to the playoffs.

Hopefully in the meantime, Marvin can iron out the wrinkles in his approach to game/clock management.

You could just see him pooping down his leg after the Henry catch. He didn't know what to do. It was like watching the Jerry Narron "pulling defeat from the jaws of victory" re-runs from the past two summers.

This season was a good slap in the face to IMO, a very overrated coach.

remdog
12-31-2006, 05:43 PM
Maybe the Bengals need a 'clock management coach'. :laugh:

Rem

George Foster
12-31-2006, 05:46 PM
Maybe the Bengals need a 'clock management coach'. :laugh:

Rem

Don't laugh, if it saves you a game, and you get into the playoffs,his salary would be worth it.

macro
12-31-2006, 05:47 PM
Doesnt help that Denver now knows that they dont need to win to be in the playoffs.

Keep that in mind.

But they DO have to win. If they lose, KC's in and they're out.

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:47 PM
With the talent this club has, 8-8 is totally unacceptable, especially given the repeated breakdowns on offense, defense, and special teams in the endgame.

They just aren't mentally tough. They don't finish. And that's the kind of quality the coaches have to ingrain in their minds.

The blame for this latest mess should be spread around evenly. It's easy to bash the defense, but keep in mind the offense did absolutely nothing for three quarters. The coaching decisions were awful. Marvin may talk a good game but his gameplanning and clock management still stink after four years.

Seriously, the way he squandered that time-out is something my little cousin MIGHT do when we're playing Madden.

StantontheRed
12-31-2006, 05:48 PM
Marvin Lewis is a good coach,I just believe he lost site of whqat his teams strenghts are.Against the Colts he tried to run the ball the whole game.Sure Indy has a terrible run defense but why leave what your good at (passing)and go to something else.Coach Lewis did this qutie often this season as well as leaving the no huddle and no coming back to it fro half the game sometimes.I just think this team would have been alot better if Maryin would let the offense loose and score has many as they could instead of just trying to score enough.Also if Chuch is back next season it will be a waisted season as well.

GAC
12-31-2006, 05:49 PM
A perfect end to a perfect day!! Marvin has a lot of work to do, starting with his coaching staff.

And also some player attitudes. I agree with what Boomer said - in the off-season, Marvin needs to exert control back over this team and possibly get rid of a few players with character problems.

Injuries hurt the Bengals this year. But when I look at this roster it has a lot of talent. So how did they end up 8-8 when everyone feels they are far better then that? I believe it is the character/attitude issue with certain players.

WMR
12-31-2006, 05:53 PM
This seems a reoccurring thing with Marvin.



IMO, he is an overrated coach on gameday, a weak to below-average evaluator of character and talent in the draft, and obviously for being a defensive-minded coach, he has failed miserable in that category in his time here. The D actually has regressed.

Next year, with an easier schedule and hopefully a new D coordinator, the Bengals will make it back to the playoffs.

Hopefully in the meantime, Marvin can iron out the wrinkles in his approach to game/clock management.

You could just see him pooping down his leg after the Henry catch. He didn't know what to do. It was like watching the Jerry Narron "pulling defeat from the jaws of victory" re-runs from the past two summers.

This season was a good slap in the face to IMO, a very overrated coach.

Agreed and don't forget the timeout expended trying to ice a kicker when that is absolutely the wrong call in that situation. Very bush.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-31-2006, 05:58 PM
Agreed and don't forget the timeout expended trying to ice a kicker when that is absolutely the wrong call in that situation. Very bush.

I laughed, but was not surprised.

If there was no time left or the kick was for the win, I understand using one or even both timeouts to ice the kicker.

But, heck, with a minute left and Carson and the offense with the rock at home, you need all the time you can get to give yourself a chance.

To use that to ice a kicker on a chippy?

Very amatuer.

pedro
12-31-2006, 05:59 PM
The Bengals definately have some issues and Lewis really needs to address them but I think a lot of people have short memories regarding the culture of losing that existed around the Bengals for over 10 years. It's not easy to turn that around, just look at the Cardinals and Lions.

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 06:00 PM
I always love it when people say that Marvin Lewis is overrated. We could bring back David Shula, maybe Bruce Coslet, heck lets call on good old Dick Lebeau. Ultimately Marvin has made some bad choices in his time with the Bengals but many coaches have. Do changes need to be made anyone can see that by looking at the defense every game. But keep in mind the players have also done a poor job of executing this entire year.

vaticanplum
12-31-2006, 06:02 PM
I haven't read this thread yet and I am certainly not in a position to judge coaching decisions and whatnot, but I would like to throw in my two cents and say holy crap did that suck. And coaching whatever notwithstanding, the Bengals have to be one of the unluckiest football teams ever.

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 06:05 PM
I laughed, but was not surprised.

If there was no time left or the kick was for the win, I understand using one or even both timeouts to ice the kicker.

But, heck, with a minute left and Carson and the offense with the rock at home, you need all the time you can get to give yourself a chance.

To use that to ice a kicker on a chippy?

Very amatuer.

And when Cowher did it to ice Graham was he a genius.

remdog
12-31-2006, 06:09 PM
And when Cowher did it to ice Graham was he a genius.

Actually, when Marvin called the time-out TV showed Cowher looking at Lewis and laughing. I almost think that Cowher called the time-out as kind of a joke with Lewis, his former assistant coach. :laugh:

Rem

BuckeyeRedleg
12-31-2006, 06:09 PM
I always love it when people say that Marvin Lewis is overrated. We could bring back David Shula, maybe Bruce Coslet, heck lets call on good old Dick Lebeau.

Anyone looks like Vince Lombardi compared with those jokers.

This is perfect example of what is currently wrong with Cincinnati sports franchises. Nothing is expected and mediocrity is praised.

I honestly believe the success of this team has little to do with Marvin. He simply stepped in at the right time.

Lucky him.

What has the defensive-minded Lewis done for the defense since he's been here. It is a joke.

With the exception of drafting Palmer, which was a no-brainer, the offensive core was already in place when Marvin got here.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-31-2006, 06:10 PM
And when Cowher did it to ice Graham was he a genius.

He had no choice. That was for the game. There was no time left.

He should have used them both, but obviously he didn't need too.

WMR
12-31-2006, 06:11 PM
I always love it when people say that Marvin Lewis is overrated. We could bring back David Shula, maybe Bruce Coslet, heck lets call on good old Dick Lebeau. Ultimately Marvin has made some bad choices in his time with the Bengals but many coaches have. Do changes need to be made anyone can see that by looking at the defense every game. But keep in mind the players have also done a poor job of executing this entire year.

http://www.profootballhof.com/assets/story_image/Parcells_coaching.jpg

"You are what your record says you are."

I'm not calling for Marvin's head yet, but using the 90's as some sort of measuring stick for what we should expect from him is not going to win this team any ball games. The most important thing is to maintain forward momentum, the demonstration of progress being made. This year was a big step backwards for EVERYONE involved with this organization -- Players AND Coaches.

Maybe Marvin should take control of the defense and assign other activities to other personnel...

There are MANY problems to be addressed this off-season to get the Marvin train heading back in the right direction.

WMR
12-31-2006, 06:13 PM
And when Cowher did it to ice Graham was he a genius.

You're not understanding the relative context of the game situation when those timeouts were used.

WMR
12-31-2006, 06:16 PM
when Marvin called the time-out TV showed Cowher looking at Lewis and laughing

Equal parts bemusement and incredulity, IMO.

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 06:21 PM
Anyone looks like Vince Lombardi compared with those jokers.

This is perfect example of what is currently wrong with Cincinnati sports franchises. Nothing is expected and mediocrity is praised.

I honestly believe the success of this team has little to do with Marvin. He simply stepped in at the right time.

Lucky him.

What has the defensive-minded Lewis done for the defense since he's been here. It is a joke.

With the exception of drafting Palmer, which was a no-brainer, the offensive core was already in place when Marvin got here.

When Marvin arrived on the scene in Bengal Land the team was in the midst of non-stop losing seasons and if I remember correctly the decision was between Lewis, Coughlin, and Mularky. In my opinion I feel that the other two based on what they have done with their coaching since could not have gotten the Bengals any further than Lewis did in his tenure so far.

As far as draft picks go Palmer was not a sure thing some people even had Boller rated higher than Palmer coming out of college. Lest we forget Palmer's best year was his last at USC.

MWM
12-31-2006, 06:22 PM
You know what's sad? I *knew* Graham was going to miss. There was no doubt in my mind. Then there was no doubt that they were going to lose the toss, and that the Steelers would score.

What irritated me was the the Bengals seemed to have little interest in being there today. I drove almost 20 miles in a near blizzard to watch a team that didn't seem to care. In contrast, on the TV right next to the one the Bengals were on was Kansas City who were playing with fire and urgency. Same for Tennessee. It was different with the Bengals.

I like Marvin Lewis as a head coach and am glad he's in Cincinnati. But this team needs a major personality overhaul. They're missing something and I can't quite figure what it is. They need more leadership from players other than Carson Palmer. They need someone on defense who can play the role of field general.

But most of all they need a new defensive coach. Bresnehan should have his pink slip already. That defense is embarassing to watch. Pittsburgh made it look easy in the 4th quarter. It's as bad as any defense in the NFL and one of the worst the Bengals have ever had, and that's saying something.

macro
12-31-2006, 06:22 PM
"You are what your record says you are."

I'm not calling for Marvin's head yet, but using the 90's as some sort of measuring stick for what we should expect from him is not going to win this team any ball games.

Exactly. This team is no better right now than the 1995-97 teams of Blake and Pickens. Hopefully the next few years will go better than things did in the late 90s and early 00s. While I don't think they'll revert back to the 3-13 and 4-12 laughingstocks they once were, I'm not holding my breath for a 13-3 Super Bowl season, either.

remdog
12-31-2006, 06:23 PM
Equal parts bemusement and incredulity, IMO.

That's actually probably a better description of what I was trying to convey.

Rem

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 06:24 PM
You're not understanding the relative context of the game situation when those timeouts were used.

I do understand the concept of time management, and I would not have used those timeouts at that time. But what bothers me is we are discussing a point that was made moot by the bomb to Henry and the subsequent missed field goal by Shayne Graham. Execution killed the Bengals not a blown time out.

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 06:29 PM
You know what's sad? I *knew* Graham was going to miss. There was no doubt in my mind. Then there was no doubt that they were going to lose the toss, and that the Steelers would score.

What irritated me was the the Bengals seemed to have little interest in being there today. I drove almost 20 miles in a near blizzard to watch a team that didn't seem to care. In contrast, on the TV right next to the one the Bengals were on was Kansas City who were playing with fire and urgency. Same for Tennessee. It was different with the Bengals.

I like Marvin Lewis as a head coach and am glad he's in Cincinnati. But this team needs a major personality overhaul. They're missing something and I can't quite figure what it is. They need more leadership from players other than Carson Palmer. They need someone on defense who can play the role of field general.

But most of all they need a new defensive coach. Bresnehan should have his pink slip already. That defense is embarassing to watch. Pittsburgh made it look easy in the 4th quarter. It's as bad as any defense in the NFL and one of the worst the Bengals have ever had, and that's saying something.

Our identity lies solely with the offense we have Chad, TJ, Rudi, Carson and the list goes on and on. Name one player you would buy a ticket to see on defense... None. This team needs balance on both offense and defense and until we get that we are in for an up and down ride.

flyer85
12-31-2006, 06:33 PM
if the Bengals were smart they would cut bait on all the off the field losers that have pulled them down and made them the laughingstock of the NFL.

WMR
12-31-2006, 06:34 PM
I do understand the concept of time management, and I would not have used those timeouts at that time. But what bothers me is we are discussing a point that was made moot by the bomb to Henry and the subsequent missed field goal by Shayne Graham. Execution killed the Bengals not a blown time out.

Believe me, I'm definitely not trying to point to that decision as the reason the Bengals lost, but calling that timeout when Marvin did, in that situation, with the gameclock sitting where it was, stopped, with the prospect of around a minute remaining when you will receive the ball in a game that you MUST win is ALWAYS the wrong decision.

It's just one more brick in the finally completed outhouse that succinctly represents the 2006 Bengals franchise.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-31-2006, 06:35 PM
Our identity lies solely with the offense we have Chad, TJ, Rudi, Carson and the list goes on and on. Name one player you would buy a ticket to see on defense... None. This team needs balance on both offense and defense and until we get that we are in for an up and down ride.

Oh, but we have Frostee Rucker. We'll be okay.

flyer85
12-31-2006, 06:39 PM
Oh, but we have Frostee Rucker. We'll be okay.a large part of success in football is about character, something this team sorely lacks overall.

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 06:39 PM
Oh, but we have Frostee Rucker. We'll be okay.

After a tough loss the sarcasim is appreciated. :beerme:

BuckeyeRedleg
12-31-2006, 06:44 PM
a large part of success in football is about character, something this team sorely lacks overall.

And for some reason it seems Marvin has received a free pass in this department.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-31-2006, 06:45 PM
After a tough loss the sarcasim is appreciated. :beerme:

Good call. Time to start drinking. :)

Happy New Year!

:beerme:

guttle11
12-31-2006, 06:47 PM
When was the last time the Bengals went in with a good gameplan on both sides of the ball?

And when was the last time they made adjustments that worked?

This team needs new assistant coaches and coordinators as much or more than they need personnel changes.

KoryMac5
12-31-2006, 06:48 PM
And for some reason it seems Marvin has received a free pass in this department.

Marvin should not receive a free pass in this department. No team had more trouble with players this year than Marvin did. Suspensions only go so far somebody big should have been cut and it should have started with Thurman.

remdog
12-31-2006, 07:33 PM
I'm dieing here with SF leading Denver late in the 3rd period.

I keep thinking: @ 8-5, win one game go to the playoffs. Instead, we get three losses and go home. :barf:

Ah, what could have been.....(sigh)

Rem

dsmith421
12-31-2006, 08:00 PM
if the Bengals were smart they would cut bait on all the off the field losers that have pulled them down and made them the laughingstock of the NFL.

Sure. I agree. Only teams loaded with good character guys can be successful in the NFL.

I mean, it's not like the best team in the AFC had a starting safety dragged out of the locker room in cuffs in preseason, lost its stud linebacker to a mid-season 'roid bust, and had another crucial starter miss the season after he got shot in the process of attacking a cop.

MWM
12-31-2006, 08:11 PM
I'm more concerned about on the field charcater, which the Bengals sorely lack (although the off-the-field stuff does bother me as well). But the Bengals lack leadership and have too many *me first* guys who like to whine and complain. The Bengals need some players on the team who will light a fire on the defensive side of the ball. I loathe Ray Lewis, but the Bengals need someone like him on defense. They're way too lacksadaisical.

flyer85
12-31-2006, 08:13 PM
Sure. I agree. Only teams loaded with good character guys can be successful in the NFL.

I mean, it's not like the best team in the AFC had a starting safety dragged out of the locker room in cuffs in preseason, lost its stud linebacker to a mid-season 'roid bust, and had another crucial starter miss the season after he got shot in the process of attacking a cop.there is a huge difference between a few malingers versus a group of losers. All it takes is a small core of low character individuals to destroy a team. This is a team with a boatload of individual talent who just turned in an 8-8 season.

flyer85
12-31-2006, 08:16 PM
I'm more concerned about on the field charcater, which the Bengals sorely lack (although the off-the-field stuff does bother me as well). the lack of character off the field will show up on the field. Plus there is a difference between an individual making a single mistake versus a pattern of irresponsible behavior. Guys who are irresponsible off the field will be irresponsible on it.

The Bengals have a core of talent to be winners, it's just a matter of having committed to pulling in the same direction.

MrCinatit
12-31-2006, 09:05 PM
...and Denver loses. Wow.

And I agree about character. Without it, a talented team becomes nothing more than this not-so-funny joke. This team showed they want absolutely nothing to do with success, and the playoffs. It would seem they themselves have already forgotten the humble Bungle years - but are one Mike Brown temper tantrum from returning to those dark days.
Get rid of the defensive coach. Get rid of Henry. Get rid of any other yahoo who insists on repeat offenses.
This team had so much, and was so close to not only getting to the playoffs, but to dominating.

traderumor
12-31-2006, 09:12 PM
Nor does a win. SF has no chance at Denver.

:cool:

traderumor
12-31-2006, 09:16 PM
I think a better defense will make a lot of the character issues seem to vanish into thin air. Not because they went anywhere, but because the character issues have so little to do with why the Bengals lost football games this year. Today, Chris Henry proved the case all over again. He practically single-handedly won the game today. Unless it was alcohol on his breath that got a hold of Graham's kick and made it do a 90 degree right turn. What the heck hit Graham's kick? Wind gust? Too wobbly?

WMR
12-31-2006, 09:16 PM
:bang: :angry:
Now watch SF upset Denver.:bang: :angry:

macro
12-31-2006, 09:20 PM
:cool:

I look like an idiot now, don't I? :redface:

As ticked as I am with the Bengals, Broncos fans should be upset at their team, as well. They tanked at the end of the season, as well, and had the playoffs lying in their laps and lose at home to a team that was 6-9 entering the game.

traderumor
12-31-2006, 09:23 PM
I haven't read through this thread because I'm sure it is as ugly as that loss was, but one thing that really made this loss sting is that the Steelers were out there doing some serious head hunting today and seemed to be just as concerned with driving helmets into heads, chests and guts and slamming guys to the ground as they were about winning a football game. Fortunately, flags were thrown on two of the cheap shots, and Ike Taylor's hit was legal but head hunting as well. Just cheap, dirty football and all blessings to their 8-8 season as well. I hate the Steelers.

traderumor
12-31-2006, 09:25 PM
I look like an idiot now, don't I? :redface:

As ticked as I am with the Bengals, Broncos fans should be upset at their team, as well. They tanked at the end of the season, as well, and had the playoffs lying in their laps and lose at home to a team that was 6-9 entering the game.Nah, its the NFL, like someone said last week, any given Sunday, all that stuff.

WMR
12-31-2006, 09:32 PM
I haven't read through this thread because I'm sure it is as ugly as that loss was, but one thing that really made this loss sting is that the Steelers were out there doing some serious head hunting today and seemed to be just as concerned with driving helmets into heads, chests and guts and slamming guys to the ground as they were about winning a football game. Fortunately, flags were thrown on two of the cheap shots, and Ike Taylor's hit was legal but head hunting as well. Just cheap, dirty football and all blessings to their 8-8 season as well. I hate the Steelers.

I made the comment during the thread that it's obvious that the Stealers would love to end Carson Palmer's career.

Danny Serafini
12-31-2006, 09:36 PM
I'm really glad the Broncos lost, so that the Bengals would've made it had they shown up today. I want every person in the Bengals organization to spend the offseason stewing over how close they came and what they threw away with a seemingly unending streak of stupid moves. Maybe, just maybe, some lights will click on in some players' heads.

Yachtzee
12-31-2006, 09:40 PM
I think a better defense will make a lot of the character issues seem to vanish into thin air. Not because they went anywhere, but because the character issues have so little to do with why the Bengals lost football games this year. Today, Chris Henry proved the case all over again. He practically single-handedly won the game today. Unless it was alcohol on his breath that got a hold of Graham's kick and made it do a 90 degree right turn. What the heck hit Graham's kick? Wind gust? Too wobbly?

But by the same token, if Chris Henry didn't take so many plays off, the Bengals might not have been in this position. What was up with that deep pass to him on the first play? If he had turned on the jets, he might catch that ball, but instead he looked more like he was the DB on that play. He slacked off the same way in previous weeks.

WMR
12-31-2006, 09:43 PM
His talent is soooo tantalizing... a shame you couldn't take the grit and determination of Kevin Walter and implant it in his body.

traderumor
12-31-2006, 10:10 PM
But by the same token, if Chris Henry didn't take so many plays off, the Bengals might not have been in this position. What was up with that deep pass to him on the first play? If he had turned on the jets, he might catch that ball, but instead he looked more like he was the DB on that play. He slacked off the same way in previous weeks.Hey, I said trade Chris Henry, just because I was sick of the alligator arming the past couple of weeks. I did not see the play in question, didn't arrive at the in-laws until about halfway through the 1st Q. I'm not real sure it is "taking plays off." He is the #3 receiver with two pretty good options getting first looks.

mth123
12-31-2006, 10:22 PM
Anyone looks like Vince Lombardi compared with those jokers.

This is perfect example of what is currently wrong with Cincinnati sports franchises. Nothing is expected and mediocrity is praised.

I honestly believe the success of this team has little to do with Marvin. He simply stepped in at the right time.

Lucky him.

What has the defensive-minded Lewis done for the defense since he's been here. It is a joke.

With the exception of drafting Palmer, which was a no-brainer, the offensive core was already in place when Marvin got here.


Actually he drafted two impact defensive players. One has been suspended all year and the other has a broken neck. I have to think it would be different if they were playing. This team is a bad snap on an extra point and/or a missed field goal from being in the playoffs. No one would be complaining if they got in. Have we forgotten the previous 15 years?

Marvin has kept Mike Brown in the background. That alone is worth its weight in gold IMO. When the team is back in 5 wins at best mode every year, then I'll agree that Marvin should go. I do wish he'd stop bringing in criminals though. Thurman really burned him this year.

Yachtzee
12-31-2006, 11:04 PM
To ease the pain of today's loss, I loaded up Madden on the Xbox360 and unloaded on the Steelers, 49-0. Too bad the Madden Tory James is way better than the real one. It's also kind of funny that the Madden coach that suggested my plays on D called a much better game than Chuck B. I was actually able to stop the Steelers on 3rd and Long.

MWM
12-31-2006, 11:05 PM
Even if they would have gotten in, they underachieved and looked very dysfunctional at times this year. Ultimately, it doesn't matter, because there's no way they'd be playing in Indy and that's a bad matchup for the Bengals. Indy has their weaknesses and there are plenty of teams that can beat them, but the Bengals are a team I don't think can beat Indy. The onyl way a team can beat Indy is if they apply a lot of QB pressure and can slow the game down by slowing down their offense. I don't think Cincy is capable of beating Indy. So it would have been one and done again.

This might be good for them. They came into the season a little overconfident, IMO.

guttle11
12-31-2006, 11:10 PM
I absolutely love the fact that Denver lost. Hopefully that will open the eyes of the people who needs their eyes opened.

BuckeyeRedleg
12-31-2006, 11:34 PM
Actually he drafted two impact defensive players. One has been suspended all year and the other has a broken neck. I have to think it would be different if they were playing.

That's the thing, if Marvin would take a bit of character into account when drafting, he wouldn't have ever taken Thurmond in the first place and they maybe wouldn't have been shorthanded there this season.

And Pollack? Tough luck, but I don't necessarily think he was a guaranteed impact player. I thought he was a bit of a reach. Sad, but we'll never know for sure one way or the other.

Marvin better clean the cancerous tumors out of the lockerroom and focus the entire draft on defense (ok, maybe a TE too).

He also needs to make sure that he re-signs everyone that has their contract up on the offense side of the ball. Anyone know who's up? I think Steinbach is, but since Willie has been re-signed we could franchise him, right?

MWM
12-31-2006, 11:36 PM
Marvin also has to address offensive line. Braham is retiring and he has to be thinking a couple of years down the road when it comes to O-Line. IMO, there's nothing more critical to the Bengals (and we saw firsthand this season why) than O-Line. But I think that's their only offensive need. Everything else should be defense.

remdog
12-31-2006, 11:36 PM
It would have been easier for me to take if Denver had won. I watched the end of that game here and almost tossed my pizza. If I'm that upset as a casual fan, every single Bengal player better be beating his head on a wall somewhere.

I hope everyone of the Bengals gets up every morning from now until training camp, looks in the mirror and thinks about this. And I hope the next thing they think about is dedicating themselves to only one goal: winning the Super Bowl in 2008.

Rem

mth123
12-31-2006, 11:53 PM
That's the thing, if Marvin would take a bit of character into account when drafting, he wouldn't have ever taken Thurmond in the first place and they maybe wouldn't have been shorthanded there this season.

And Pollack? Tough luck, but I don't necessarily think he was a guaranteed impact player. I thought he was a bit of a reach. Sad, but we'll never know for sure one way or the other.

Marvin better clean the cancerous tumors out of the lockerroom and focus the entire draft on defense (ok, maybe a TE too).

He also needs to make sure that he re-signs everyone that has their contract up on the offense side of the ball. Anyone know who's up? I think Steinbach is, but since Willie has been re-signed we could franchise him, right?

Agree, but it looked like the plan was to go out and get a 2 ton defensive tackle like Sam Adams to tie up the blockers so that the Linebackers could make the plays. Then the Linebackers he was counting on as the playmakers weren't on the field. That has to have an impact IMO.

Not sure that is a bad scheme but one guy let him down and the other was hurt. I can blame Marvin for basing so much of his defense on Thurman I guess, but it isn't really an X's and O's thing. He took a chance that he could turn Thurman around because the reward was high. I'd prefer not taking those chances anymore.

WMR
01-01-2007, 12:05 AM
Is Odell Thurman going to be back next season? I think they'll give him another shot.

George Foster
01-01-2007, 01:25 AM
I haven't read through this thread because I'm sure it is as ugly as that loss was, but one thing that really made this loss sting is that the Steelers were out there doing some serious head hunting today and seemed to be just as concerned with driving helmets into heads, chests and guts and slamming guys to the ground as they were about winning a football game. Fortunately, flags were thrown on two of the cheap shots, and Ike Taylor's hit was legal but head hunting as well. Just cheap, dirty football and all blessings to their 8-8 season as well. I hate the Steelers.

After the Palmer hit, I told my wife, "If Palmer is hurt, the Bengals better make sure that Ben is too injured to play next season." He (Palmer) finished the game but their was no "response" to the personal foul on Palmer. There needed to be.

Yachtzee
01-01-2007, 01:30 AM
After the Palmer hit, I told my wife, "If Palmer is hurt, the Bengals better make sure that Ben is too injured to play next season." He (Palmer) finished the game but their was no "response" to the personal foul on Palmer. There needed to be.

I don't know about that. As much as it stunk to lose in overtime, it would have been worse to have the Bengals lose by giving up a first down by doing something stupid. The retaliation should have been to win the game and send the Steelers home to cry in their beers.

George Foster
01-01-2007, 01:31 AM
Does anybody know how far under the salary cap the Bengals are? I mean the window of opportunity is only going to be open for about 3-5 years with this offense, if they keep everyone. They need to open up the check book on the offensive line and defensive line and give this team a real chance to make a run at the Super Bowl.

Redhook
01-01-2007, 01:46 AM
Is Odell Thurman going to be back next season? I think they'll give him another shot.

Stick a fork in him. He's done with the Bengals.

I wish he wasn't, but he's gone (not officially yet, but he will be).

cincy jacket
01-01-2007, 02:15 AM
Is Odell Thurman going to be back next season? I think they'll give him another shot.

Even if the Bengals decide to keep him, I think he is suspended by the league for the first four games. His year long suspension for his second violation didn't start until week 5. So that would carry over for the first four weeks of next season. The way Marvin has talked though I would be surprised to see him back. If he had been around this year though the Bengals are a playoff team. Oh well time to move on. Does anyone know what draft pick number we have?

macro
01-01-2007, 02:29 AM
Does anyone know what draft pick number we have?

It looks like they will select 18th...

http://football.about.com/od/nfldraft/a/nfldraftorder.htm


1. Oakland (2-14)
2. Detroit (3-13)
3. Cleveland (4-12)
4. Tampa Bay (4-12)
5. Arizona (5-11)
6. Washington (5-11)
7. Minnesota (6-10)
8. Houston (6-10)
9. Miami (6-10)
10. Atlanta (7-9)
11. San Fransico (7-9)
12. Buffalo (7-9)
13. St. Louis (8-8)
14. Carolina (8-8)
15. Green Bay (8-8)
16. Pittsburgh (8-8)
17. Jacksonville (8-8)
18. Cincinnati (8-8)
19. Tennessee (8-8)
*20. NY Giants (8-8)
*21. Denver (9-7)
*22. New England (from Seattle) (9-7)
*23. Dallas (9-7)
*24. Kansas City (9-7)
*25. New Orleans (10-6)
*26. NY Jets (10-6)
*27. Philadelphia (10-6)
*28. New England (12-4)
*29. Indianapolis (12-4)
*30. Baltimore (13-3)
*31. Chicago (13-3)
*32. San Diego (14-2)

*Subject to results of the playoffs

GAC
01-01-2007, 05:33 AM
I'm more concerned about on the field charcater, which the Bengals sorely lack (although the off-the-field stuff does bother me as well). But the Bengals lack leadership and have too many *me first* guys who like to whine and complain. The Bengals need some players on the team who will light a fire on the defensive side of the ball. I loathe Ray Lewis, but the Bengals need someone like him on defense. They're way too lacksadaisical.

I thoroughly agree Mike. The 2007 edition of the Bengals shows that you can have talent, yet it takes more then that to win. They have some players who play with that "fire"; but that fire is like a "tude" (a stick of dynamite waiting to go off). A "tude" that is more about the individual on the field, then the team as a cohesive unit. And there seems to be no one on that field to reign them in. Carson tries, but I don't know how effective he is.

There seems to be no "stand out" guy on the defensive side. You would think it would be someone like a Justin Smith.

I thought the situation with Pittsburgh's Willie Colon was hilarious. Pitt had driven the ball down to the Bengal's 5 yd line, kept the drive alive, and this rookie gets a 15 yd taunting penalty that puts the ball back to the 20.

They showed "the chin". Cowher, at that moment, wanted a piece of Colon. And Colon was going nowhere near Cowher or looking in his direction. :lol:

But just the camera shots of Cowher motioning/trying to get this kid's attention was hilarious. He finally did. But what impressed me - and regardless of what anyone thinks of Cowher, because I think he is a good coach - was the camera shot of Cowher's one-on-one with this rookie. He was letting him have it, probably letting him know just how stupid his actions were and how it cost the team. But afterwards, Cowher pats him on the helmet and sends him back in there.

That's coaching. Cowher is a motivator. The players have a fear, and at the same time, a respect for him.

How often do you see that on the Bengal's sideline and with Lewis?

The players PLAY FOR Cowher. Do the Bengals players do the same for Marvin?

I like Marvin Lewis. And maybe Marvin is the type of guy that likes to deal with "situations" privately (like his benching of Henry). But I also believe you have to show that on the sideline too during the game. I have seen Marvin try to say stuff to players as they walk to the sideline and after they've done something bonehead, but the player just kind of walks right by Marvin. And Marvin seems to lets it slide.

It's just not about control in that locker room, but also control on that field (sidelines) too.

That is the difference I see between a Marvin Lewis and say a Parcells, Cowher, and previous coaching greats like Lombardi, Brown, and Stram.

Marvin is a great evaluator of talent and assembling a team. But does he possess those characteristics of being a motivator? That person who grabs the bull by the horns, takes charge, and is both respected and feared by his players?

RedsBaron
01-01-2007, 09:00 AM
Does anybody know how far under the salary cap the Bengals are? I mean the window of opportunity is only going to be open for about 3-5 years with this offense, if they keep everyone. They need to open up the check book on the offensive line and defensive line and give this team a real chance to make a run at the Super Bowl.

I was thinking the same thing. If anything, the window will probably close within another three seasons. If this group of Bengals are to make a Super Bowl run, 2007 is critical.

Yachtzee
01-01-2007, 12:13 PM
I thoroughly agree Mike. The 2007 edition of the Bengals shows that you can have talent, yet it takes more then that to win. They have some players who play with that "fire"; but that fire is like a "tude" (a stick of dynamite waiting to go off). A "tude" that is more about the individual on the field, then the team as a cohesive unit. And there seems to be no one on that field to reign them in. Carson tries, but I don't know how effective he is.

There seems to be no "stand out" guy on the defensive side. You would think it would be someone like a Justin Smith.

I thought the situation with Pittsburgh's Willie Colon was hilarious. Pitt had driven the ball down to the Bengal's 5 yd line, kept the drive alive, and this rookie gets a 15 yd taunting penalty that puts the ball back to the 20.

They showed "the chin". Cowher, at that moment, wanted a piece of Colon. And Colon was going nowhere near Cowher or looking in his direction. :lol:

But just the camera shots of Cowher motioning/trying to get this kid's attention was hilarious. He finally did. But what impressed me - and regardless of what anyone thinks of Cowher, because I think he is a good coach - was the camera shot of Cowher's one-on-one with this rookie. He was letting him have it, probably letting him know just how stupid his actions were and how it cost the team. But afterwards, Cowher pats him on the helmet and sends him back in there.

That's coaching. Cowher is a motivator. The players have a fear, and at the same time, a respect for him.

How often do you see that on the Bengal's sideline and with Lewis?

The players PLAY FOR Cowher. Do the Bengals players do the same for Marvin?

I like Marvin Lewis. And maybe Marvin is the type of guy that likes to deal with "situations" privately (like his benching of Henry). But I also believe you have to show that on the sideline too during the game. I have seen Marvin try to say stuff to players as they walk to the sideline and after they've done something bonehead, but the player just kind of walks right by Marvin. And Marvin seems to lets it slide.

It's just not about control in that locker room, but also control on that field (sidelines) too.

That is the difference I see between a Marvin Lewis and say a Parcells, Cowher, and previous coaching greats like Lombardi, Brown, and Stram.

Marvin is a great evaluator of talent and assembling a team. But does he possess those characteristics of being a motivator? That person who grabs the bull by the horns, takes charge, and is both respected and feared by his players?

You've got a point, but Cowher has also been a head coach much longer than Lewis and has had time for his philosophy to become ingrained within the team. Cowher has the luxury of knowing that he has had a hand in selecting every guy on that team. He doesn't worry about guys "buying in" to his philosophy because he likely identified guys who would "buy in" before they joined the team.

I think Lewis has gone a long way toward changing the "culture" of the Bengals, but still has some work to do. Up till now, I think he has been working from the position of trying to get everyone to "buy in," regardless of whether they "bought in" when they joined the team. So right now I think he still has to spend his time evangelizing to some of his players to get everyone to "buy in."

I think the core is there, but Lewis needs to get better at identifying those who "buy in" when they are drafted. I'm not talking about the off-the-field character issues. Even the best teams have those guys. I'm talking about guys who buy into the coach's philosophy and work ethic. So far Lewis has been drafting "best talent available." Unfortunately, this brings in guys like Henry and Thurman, who are incredibly talented but who I don't believe buy into the culture Lewis is trying to promote. I think he needs to start identifying guys not just on talent, but also as to whether they will fit in with the culture of this team.

traderumor
01-01-2007, 12:39 PM
GAC,

Lewis has had plenty of confrontations with his players on the sidelines, immediately after making stupid bonehead plays like the one you mentioned. How many times have you seen him in Chad's face over the years? I can recall several.

It is very simple. The Bengals need a better D. Hopefully the draft and free agency will be kind to them this year.

dsmith421
01-01-2007, 01:50 PM
I hate the Steelers.

They really are just a classless franchise, aren't they?

At some stage we're going to have to fight fire with fire.

flyer85
01-01-2007, 02:04 PM
hmm

It's a combination of ... players who - by the admission of their head coach - are still more concerned about "me" than "team."


Blame sits at the feet of a head coach whose game management, timeout usage, personnel selection and apparent lack of control in his team's locker room are contributing to undisciplined and inconsistent play on the field.


"Sometimes you have to get smart, selfless players who understand football," Anderson said.

TeamBoone
01-01-2007, 02:15 PM
I haven't read through this thread because I'm sure it is as ugly as that loss was, but one thing that really made this loss sting is that the Steelers were out there doing some serious head hunting today and seemed to be just as concerned with driving helmets into heads, chests and guts and slamming guys to the ground as they were about winning a football game. Fortunately, flags were thrown on two of the cheap shots, and Ike Taylor's hit was legal but head hunting as well. Just cheap, dirty football and all blessings to their 8-8 season as well. I hate the Steelers.


I totally agree with you. The Steelers' Raider-esque play had me angry during most of the game.

Bengals mistakes aside, the Steelers played dirty.

RedFanAlways1966
01-01-2007, 02:23 PM
They really are just a classless franchise, aren't they?

At some stage we're going to have to fight fire with fire.

I'll never forget this...

Steelers-Bengals game on Monday night, Oct. 10, 1983. Keith Gary, a wild rookie defensive end for the Steelers, put a rush on All-Pro QB Ken Anderson, grabbed him by the face mask and buggy-whipped him, injuring him so severely that Anderson missed the next three games.

Gary grabbed Anderson's face mask and almost turned Anderson's head around 180 degrees. Pretty vicious and definitley cheap. Later in that same game Gary tried to hurt backup QB Turk Schonert.

Different times, but the same crap we see from that team a lot today. Two personal fouls in yesterday's game for cheap shots (one on Carson Palmer and one on Chad Johnson). I can deal with a late hit out-of-bounds (momentum thing) and other types of personal fouls, but the two I saw yesterday were cheap and malicious. Caleb Miller's was cheap too, but nowhere near risking an injury to a player like the two from the other side.

Not sure if I favor fighting fire with fire. However, the NFL needs to level suspensions for blatant personal fouls that can hurt a player. Fine them too like they normally do, but a suspension hurts rich people more than fines. Very rarely do you see suspensions like the Titans' Haynesworth got for his blatant thuggery against Dallas. It needs to happen more IMO.

flyer85
01-01-2007, 02:24 PM
At some stage we're going to have to fight fire with fire.I'd say the way to go is just kick their butts like the Ravens did.

Yachtzee
01-01-2007, 02:50 PM
I'd say the way to go is just kick their butts like the Ravens did.

That would be the way to go.

traderumor
01-01-2007, 04:56 PM
hmm
What are you quoting?

WMR
01-01-2007, 05:02 PM
I'd just like to point out that no Bengals were arrested last night. (as far as we know)

Baby steps.

Danny Serafini
01-01-2007, 05:05 PM
Even if the Bengals decide to keep him, I think he is suspended by the league for the first four games. His year long suspension for his second violation didn't start until week 5. So that would carry over for the first four weeks of next season. The way Marvin has talked though I would be surprised to see him back. If he had been around this year though the Bengals are a playoff team. Oh well time to move on. Does anyone know what draft pick number we have?

I believe instead of tacking on a year they merely switched his 4 game suspension to a year, so I think he will be able to play week 1. May not matter though if Marvin doesn't want him back.

flyer85
01-02-2007, 10:43 AM
from the Enquirer ... as were the earlier quotes


Selfishness gets the blame
The 2006 Bengals: What went wrong?
BY MARK CURNUTTE | MCURNUTTE@ENQUIRER.COM

Bengals players echoed their coach, as they often do, after the season-ending loss Sunday to the Steelers.

In Paul Brown Stadium's home locker room, selfishness was cited repeatedly as the reason the Bengals under-achieved in 2006.

"Small, every gap is small in football," Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said. "There are not wide gaps in the NFL, very small. But it takes people that are selfless."

Said right tackle Willie Anderson: "We all know it is selfishness. We as a team will never get over the hump with the selfishness."

Lewis and his players stopped short of defining selfishness, but examples were on display all year.

Players who get into trouble off the field are viewed as selfish by their teammates, though no one would mention names.

Talented players such as wide receiver Chris Henry and linebacker Odell Thurman - examples 1a and 1b of the bad-boy Bengals - might come to work and work hard. But they're not at home getting rest, studying film or their playbooks when they're out into the wee hours of the morning and getting into trouble.

It's not a stretch to say the Bengals' defense missed Thurman's big-play ability at middle linebacker, where his consistency and knowledge of assignments as a second-year player would have had to improve over his rookie season.

When a bit player like rookie wide receiver Reggie McNeal got into trouble outside a Houston nightclub, Lewis defended him publicly, saying he was the victim of a bad arrest. Why didn't Lewis make an example of McNeal in some way? Instead, there was an air of "anything goes" in the locker room.

traderumor
01-02-2007, 06:17 PM
Talented players such as wide receiver Chris Henry and linebacker Odell Thurman - examples 1a and 1b of the bad-boy Bengals - might come to work and work hard. But they're not at home getting rest, studying film or their playbooks when they're out into the wee hours of the morning and getting into trouble.If they come to work and work hard, their personal life is just that. Now, obviously breaking the law is wrong, but to put up that false dichotomy, it sounds like some expectations need to be established and enforced.

GAC
01-02-2007, 09:34 PM
Could the Bengals have possibly won one or two more games with Thurman and/or Henry in there? I think so.

Listening to WLW every morning while driving home, the biggest topic, since the Pitt loss is that there is a character problem on this team that needs to be deeply addressed in the off-season.

forfreelin04
01-03-2007, 05:20 AM
Please, correct me if this has not already been mentioned since I have not read all the responses to the final Steelers game, but I personally feel if the Bengals are to truly find that missing link to their defense they need to do one or possibly two of these two things. First, they need to fire Breshnean. Throughout the year, it has become ever so apparent to me that this guy is simply not smart enough to run a competent scheme in Cincinnati. I know it is somewhat irrational of me as a fan to call a defensive coordinator in the NFL incompetent, but I truly feel he is. Reasons and evident for this is as follows:
First, Marvin and Mike Brown paid for experience this year in Sam Adams who was undeniably a force that made the run defense far better than it was last year. It's arguable that Adams is on the wane as far as his prime goes but he showed some serious heart and hustle when it came time in big game situtations. He and other d lineman held Larry Johnson in check, held J Lewis in check, beat New Orleans with their two big rushers Bush and McAllister. Not to mention, they made Manning throw the ball in Indy despite one big run by Indy's rookie running back. However, Breshnean failed to realize that this was the strength of the Bengals defense the entire year and practically invited Manning to throw all over them in Indy and did the same against Cutler in Denver. This is a lack of brains on his part. I'm no sage when it comes to football, but in anything it is obvious to me that you need to exploit your strengths in football and less expose your weakneses. Chuck failed to do this many times this year. His lack of adjustments at halftime are sure evidence of this. The San Diego game being one of the many examples of this. I don't know if it's been reported here on Redszone, but an ESPN writer flat out said that he had viable advice from a NFL guru that anyone with half a brain could out smart Breshnean when it came to defense. This tells me that this guy needs to go. He was given a shot with better players to make the defense better and he didn't. So, ggggggeeeeeet ouuttttt.
My second point is ever the more controversial and is probably prime to raise a few rebuttles by Bengals fans. That is, the most expendable person big name on the Bengals offense is Chad Johnson. Don't get me wrong, I love the energy and the news coverage he brings to this team, but he hasn't shown me that he has any more talent then Henry or Housh. Henry has proven when his head his straight to be the next Randy Moss. Moss, Minnesota, not Oakland. Housh has shown he can run better routes, go across the middle, and make big catches in big games to make this team really tick. I think Housh has proven himself to be the best wide receiver on over half of any other NFL teams. That being said, I would reccomend that Ocho Cinco be traded to a team with more of a dire need for offense in exhange for a defensive playmaker especially at linebacker or defensive end, both areas that I feel where the Bengals are lacking. This team is not very far away from a Super Bowl run and I think that an intimidating force on defense is what this team needs to put them over the hump. Now, I don't know if this trade is even legal in Chad's contract or even feasible but I tend to think that he would catch a far bigger fish on defense than would a Henry or a Housh. Henry, wouldnt command as much because of his obvious off the field problems and Housh for his lack of experience as being the number one guy. Chad as shown me time and time again, that he freezes up or even chokes in big games. It's almost as if he talks big to make up for his lack of confidence in his game in these situtations. The dropped passes and fumbles in the Denver and Indy game are sure evidence of this. Don't get me wrong I love OCHO Cinco but stellar games against the Browns, Saints, and Panthers are mute when compared to his lack of show against the Broncos, Indy, and the Steelers. Some may say that this was because of the cornerbacks he faces being the top wide receiver or the double team coverage, but I think his drops against Indy and Denver plus his fumble there assures me the right to make this argument. I think we have a bonafide Hall of Famer in Palmer who will only get better, but with a lackluster defense we need to understand this offense needs to be willing to give up some of its integral pieces for defense to truly become a Super Bowl caliber team.

Finally, I understand there are other issues at stake. Obviously, Marvin's on the field decisions, the time out in Indy in the first quarter, the allowing of the letdown in Tampa after the bye week, and the debacle that happened before the Graham field goal attempt this past week are obvious evidence that he needs to do "his job" in Cincinnati. But, I feel he has stretched himself so thin with incompetent coaches espcecially Breshnean and to a lesser extent Bratatowski. If he starts to employ former coaches ALA Jim Mora and Romeo Crennel (if fired) I think the surrounding effects will improve this team. Let's hope these improvements are made and we look forward to that Super Bowl year we have all been patiently waiting for. Who Dey!