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FutureRedsGM
01-05-2007, 12:58 PM
Feb 28 vs. Georgia is Kentucky's last home game this year. I am assuming this is senior night . . . can anyone confirm?

dabvu2498
01-05-2007, 01:15 PM
Feb 28 vs. Georgia is Kentucky's last home game this year. I am assuming this is senior night . . . can anyone confirm?

Yes it is.

FutureRedsGM
01-05-2007, 02:04 PM
Just bought 2 tickets on stubhub.com. $130 for upper level. That's an expensive seat!! I've been to several games, but never to senior night so it will be worth it.

Javy Pornstache
01-05-2007, 03:12 PM
I went to Senior Night a few years ago, and happened upon really cheap seats, and the view wasn't bad at all. I think I got four tickets for $15 or 16 apiece. Then again, it was the year Saul Smith was the only senior, so maybe THAT'S why it was so cheap :D Now that I think about it, the stellar recruiting class of Bobby Perry, Sheray Thomas and Lukasz Obrzut are the seniors this year, so there may be a similar deal out there!

FutureRedsGM
01-05-2007, 03:46 PM
I predict huge applause for Woo, but very little for Perry and Thomas.

Hoosier Red
01-05-2007, 04:14 PM
What do they do for UK's senior day?

IU's tradition, which Davis continued and hopefully Sampson will as well, is after the game to honor all the senior cheerleaders, trainers, etc... then to have each player go to the microphone and thank whoever they want.
They can take as long or as short as they like. Probably one of my favorite things about IU basketball.

Chip R
01-05-2007, 04:38 PM
What do they do for UK's senior day?



That's a special day for the seniors. It's when they get their final checks from the boosters. :evil:

Sweetstop
01-05-2007, 05:04 PM
I go to almost all home games and always Senior Day (last home game). It's emotional and extra exciting no matter who the seniors (of course WOOing will be fun this year). If Wildcats are in a down to the wire race in the conference, it's, obviously, an extra, extra exciting game. We can only hope for that this year, I'm afraid.

Chip, Chip, Chip, you are way too cynical. ;)

macro
01-05-2007, 06:39 PM
What do they do for UK's senior day?

At our house, we sit around and wonder how they managed to lose twelve games in a season once again, and speculate as to which region they'll be the #8 seed.

Blimpie
01-05-2007, 06:45 PM
At our house, we sit around and wonder how they managed to lose twelve games in a season once again, and speculate as to which region they'll be the #8 seed.Ouch. We resemble that remark.

George Foster
01-06-2007, 12:14 AM
At our house, we sit around and wonder how they managed to lose twelve games in a season once again, and speculate as to which region they'll be the #8 seed.


It will be that way at your house until the TUB is drained.

Blimpie
01-06-2007, 01:58 PM
It will be that way at your house until the TUB is drained.Clever.

FutureRedsGM
01-08-2007, 12:27 PM
As far as what takes place on senior day . . .

I have never been to a live senior day, but I have seen several on TV. Before the game, each senior basketball player is announced individually. They are usually accompanied by their parents and are given a framed jersey. The closing of the ceremony is a very teary-eyed version of "My Old Kentucky Home".

WMR
02-21-2007, 04:45 PM
Someone mentioned in passing on the other side of the board that Randolph really got reamed last night on the pre-game radio show. Can someone who heard it elaborate? How is the tone right now in Lexington towards Tubby?

Sweetstop
02-21-2007, 05:00 PM
I didn't listen to the pre-game on the drive over to the game last night. My husband and I actually talked:)

I also don't listen to the talk shows, since they would make my head explode, I'm sure. But I imagine the local Tubby talk is about what you would expect.

dabvu2498
02-21-2007, 05:12 PM
Someone mentioned in passing on the other side of the board that Randolph really got reamed last night on the pre-game radio show. Can someone who heard it elaborate? How is the tone right now in Lexington towards Tubby?

I mentioned it.

Morris made some Rex Grossman-like quotes in the Lexington paper after the Alabama Game.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/sports/outdoors/16726376.htm


"My head wasn't in the game," he said after UK's 72-61 loss at Alabama. "Obviously, the way I came out early, it was a tough day for me getting myself ready to play."

In UK's first six trips downcourt, Morris committed two turnovers and missed a shot. That sent him on his way to a career-high eight turnovers, which marred his 15-point, seven-rebound, four-block afternoon. The blocks equaled a career high.

When asked where his head was, Morris said, "I don't know. If I knew where it was, I'd have an idea of where to find it."


Dave Baker was killing him and Oscar Combs was defending him. Natually, the callers mostly agreed with Dave.

As far as the tone in Lexington, I dunno. But my SWO UK buddies all say Tubby is done.

Heath
02-21-2007, 05:17 PM
I mentioned it.

Morris made some Rex Grossman-like quotes in the Lexington paper after the Alabama Game.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/sports/outdoors/16726376.htm



Dave Baker was killing him and Oscar Combs was defending him. Natually, the callers mostly agreed with Dave.

As far as the tone in Lexington, I dunno. But my SWO UK buddies all say Tubby is done.

Hope you guys like Travis Ford.

WMR
02-21-2007, 05:41 PM
Hope you guys like Travis Ford.

It's time for new blood. I like some of the freshmen Tubby brought in this season, but it's time for someone new.

WMR
02-21-2007, 05:43 PM
I mentioned it.

Morris made some Rex Grossman-like quotes in the Lexington paper after the Alabama Game.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/sports/outdoors/16726376.htm



Dave Baker was killing him and Oscar Combs was defending him. Natually, the callers mostly agreed with Dave.

As far as the tone in Lexington, I dunno. But my SWO UK buddies all say Tubby is done.

What does "SWO" stand for?

Jeez Randolph... what a dumb-sounding quote.

dabvu2498
02-21-2007, 05:48 PM
What does "SWO" stand for?

Jeez Randolph... what a dumb-sounding quote.

SouthWest Ohio

WMR
02-21-2007, 05:52 PM
Ahh K, gotcha. :)

Sweetstop
02-21-2007, 05:55 PM
Hope you guys like Travis Ford.

What did I tell you, dabvu? :)

dabvu2498
02-21-2007, 05:58 PM
What did I tell you, dabvu? :)

I think he may be trying to get our goats a bit. Dang Ole Heath.

Sweetstop
02-21-2007, 06:05 PM
I think he may be trying to get our goats a bit. Dang Ole Heath.

funny fellow..

I just figure it sounds like something some of the fans would like. Hopefully, Mitch and gang would have more sense.

Tubby may be there as long as he wishes.

Heath
02-21-2007, 06:24 PM
I think he may be trying to get our goats a bit. Dang Ole Heath.


funny fellow..

I just figure it sounds like something some of the fans would like. Hopefully, Mitch and gang would have more sense.

Tubby may be there as long as he wishes.

Sorry y'all - I didn't think I'd be fishing for you guys - just bustin' the chops. :D

If Tubby goes, they're will be plenty of people who would want that job. How about Huggy Bear in Lexington? They guy from Southern Illinois? How about a guy who runs a Princeton style offense? Calipari? Mike Brey from Notre Dame? What about a guy like Billy Gillespie? or even Rick Majerus?

Too many possibilities.

Sweetstop
02-21-2007, 06:46 PM
Sorry y'all - I didn't think I'd be fishing for you guys - just bustin' the chops. :D

If Tubby goes, they're will be plenty of people who would want that job. How about Huggy Bear in Lexington? They guy from Southern Illinois? How about a guy who runs a Princeton style offense? Calipari? Mike Brey from Notre Dame? What about a guy like Billy Gillespie? or even Rick Majerus?

Too many possibilities.


Is Mr. Majerus svelte and healthy these days?:)

Blimpie
02-21-2007, 07:01 PM
My feeling is that Tubby will be at UK throughout the term of his contract unless he resigns.

Not only does he enjoy unchallenged support from the AD, the buyout language in his contract makes it very punitive to terminate him prior to the contract end.

Sweetstop
02-21-2007, 08:09 PM
My feeling is that Tubby will be at UK throughout the term of his contract unless he resigns.

Not only does he enjoy unchallenged support from the AD, the buyout language in his contract makes it very punitive to terminate him prior to the contract end.

That's what I've heard and said up above.

fielder's choice
02-21-2007, 09:25 PM
If Tubby is canned/resigns I think Billy D would come.

WMR
02-21-2007, 09:41 PM
I used to think so... not anymore.

He's basically a demi-god down there... no pressure whatsoever... easy school/surrounding/weather/chicks to sell to recruits...

BUT, with all that said, it's still not the University of Kentucky.

TeamSelig
02-21-2007, 11:24 PM
Billy D would be nice...

how many more years does Tubby have left on his contract?

macro
02-22-2007, 12:36 AM
I'll go with WilyMo's first reaction: Donovan ain't leaving Florida. I hope he proves me wrong and takes up residence in Fayette County, though. Sometime this summer would be fine.

I like Tubby and Donna, but man is it ever time for him to leave. Ten- and twelve-loss seasons and second-round tournament losses are getting very old. This will mark the 9th consecutive season that UK has not made the Final Four. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is the longest such streak in school history. The previous record was eight seasons (1985-92 and 1967-74).

macro
02-22-2007, 12:38 AM
But my SWO UK buddies all say Tubby is done.

His choice or someone else's?

dabvu2498
02-22-2007, 08:58 AM
His choice or someone else's?

Perhaps a bit of both. I think Tubby would willingly take another job.

TeamSelig
02-22-2007, 04:31 PM
Tubby should have been fired immediately after playing Saul Smith.

durl
02-22-2007, 05:00 PM
Problems:

- Florida has beaten KY 5 straight times. Only one other team has done that in 30 years. No team has ever beaten KY 6 straight times and KY has to win at Florida to keep that from happening. The odds aren't good.

- 3-game losing streak in February for the second consecutive year. The last time that happened was 1922-23.

- Vanderbilt goes 28 games without a victory at Rupp, then get 2 in a row.

- KY is virtually guaranteed to have it's 5th 10-loss season in Tubby's 10 years.

- 8 years without a Final Four appearance. This year will most likely be 9. While some may not see that as huge, this is the longest drought in school history under a single coach.

- 2-13 in last 15 games against ranked teams.

There are bad times in every program. However, there is a trend at Kentucky and it's downward. Smith said that this year would be an improvement over last year and it has been...to the tune of 1 extra win. Sorry, that's not good enough.

I'm a long-time Tubby apologist and I don't hate the man. Quite the opposite, I respect his character greatly. I thought he got an unfair shake from many fans when he first arrived. That being said, I believe it's time for a change to return this program back to it's elite status.

dabvu2498
02-22-2007, 05:06 PM
Well said, durl.

cincy jacket
02-22-2007, 05:17 PM
Problems:

- Vanderbilt goes 28 games without a victory at Rupp, then get 2 in a row.

- 2-13 in last 15 games against ranked teams.



Those two are the most telling stats to me. Teams used to fear coming to Rupp, especially traditionally weaker teams like UV. Now though we have heard some coaches just flat come out and say that they come in not only thinking that they can[I]win but that [I]should win. This is one problem that even getting one recruit like Patterson to commit will fix. It's a culture that Tubby has allowed to infiltrate the program.

dabvu2498
02-22-2007, 05:24 PM
I think he's having problems getting top 10-20 recruits because of style of play. JMO

WMR
02-22-2007, 05:29 PM
Great post durl!

cincy jacket
02-22-2007, 05:31 PM
I agree if I was a top recruit I would not want to go to Kentucky. A place like North Carolina where they are going to be getting up and down the floor and taking 50-60 more shots a game is much more appealing to a kid trying to pad his numbers for the NBA.

WMR
02-22-2007, 05:33 PM
Seems obvious, Cincy

Heath
02-22-2007, 05:56 PM
Those two are the most telling stats to me. Teams used to fear coming to Rupp, especially traditionally weaker teams like UV. Now though we have heard some coaches just flat come out and say that they come in not only thinking that they can[I]win but that [I]should win. This is one problem that even getting one recruit like Patterson to commit will fix. It's a culture that Tubby has allowed to infiltrate the program.

Sounds like the days of Eddie Sutton in Lexington.

dabvu2498
02-22-2007, 05:58 PM
Sounds like the days of Eddie Sutton in Lexington.

Eddie Sutton got some serious players to UK. With the help of Emery Worldwide.

Heath
02-22-2007, 06:03 PM
Eddie Sutton got some serious players to UK. With the help of Emery Worldwide.

Then how do you explain Ed Davender?

dabvu2498
02-23-2007, 11:17 AM
Then how do you explain Ed Davender?

Do we really need to explain this:

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper305/stills/igg5448z.jpg

durl
02-25-2007, 06:37 PM
Time to amend my previous post of problems:

- Vanderbilt has won 4 straight against the Cats. The last time that happened was 33 years ago in 1973-74.

It's sad to say, but the Tubby era MUST come to an end now.

WMR
02-25-2007, 07:42 PM
Disheartening.

Blimpie
02-25-2007, 08:12 PM
Kentucky led for the first 39:35 of the game and managed to lose...

TeamSelig
02-25-2007, 10:02 PM
I miss when being a UK fan meant that you could care about March Madness...

cincy jacket
02-26-2007, 12:01 AM
Anybody know the last time , if ever, UK has gone the entire year without beating a top 25 team?

macro
02-26-2007, 12:15 AM
Anybody know the last time , if ever, UK has gone the entire year without beating a top 25 team?

Hmmm...good question. The 1990 team, Pitino's first and the first of two years on probation, went 14-14, so we might start looking there. The year before, Eddie Sutton's last team had a horrible year. I don't even remember the record, because I stopped watching that mess long before the season ended, but that team would be a candidate, as well.

There was an article in the Louisville paper this weekend that said that Tubby is a great coach and that he should stay, and placed the blame on his assistants. They pointed out that in ten years, he has only had two assistants leave for head coaching jobs. The others have been there ten years with no offers. That would seem to be a problem. The suggestion was that he have a housecleaning with the assistants. I can't say that I disagree. Somebody's going to have to learn to recruit. Isn't that the main focus of assistants?

cincy jacket
02-26-2007, 12:23 AM
If the assistants are that bad then why has Tubby kept them around for so long? I don't think that does anything to help alleviate Tubby of the mess he has created. I saw the article Lance had posted on his blog where somebody was blaming the fans as to why UK was getting no top recruits. At the end of the day the guy in charge has to answer for the final product. Due to his contract and unremitting support from the AD I don't see him or his assistants going anywhere for awhile.

guttle11
02-26-2007, 12:56 AM
The fact that Tubby didn't even recruit Chris Wright until after he had been locked into Dayton struck me as odd. Especially considering he's never been shy about the fact Kentucky was his favorite team growing up.

I'm no Kentucky fan, but having them at the top is good for college basketball. Tubby just is not getting the job done down there.

dabvu2498
02-26-2007, 09:13 AM
Hmmm...good question. The 1990 team, Pitino's first and the first of two years on probation, went 14-14

They beat LSU (with Chris Jackson and Shaq) that year.

macro
02-26-2007, 09:16 AM
If the assistants are that bad then why has Tubby kept them around for so long? I don't think that does anything to help alleviate Tubby of the mess he has created. I saw the article Lance had posted on his blog where somebody was blaming the fans as to why UK was getting no top recruits. At the end of the day the guy in charge has to answer for the final product. Due to his contract and unremitting support from the AD I don't see him or his assistants going anywhere for awhile.

I think he has kept the assistants out of loyalty.

I agree that the head coach is ultimately responsible for the team's performance, but I'm starting to think that Tubby's weakness lies in his failure to shake up the coaching staff rather than in his actual ability to coach the game. He showed in his first few years here what he could do, given the right players. Rather than just the obvious "Tubby needs to leave" movement, I sense another movement of "Tubby needs to stay and shake up the coaching staff". I've moved over to the latter camp.

You're right that Barnhardt isn't going to fire him, but I think some feel that Tubby may leave on his own.

durl
02-26-2007, 11:25 AM
Anybody know the last time , if ever, UK has gone the entire year without beating a top 25 team?

I wondered the same thing, but it's not been easy to find that stat.

Most people that defend Tubby (myself included up until this year) say that he always gets his teams ready for tournament time, but I simply don't see that happening this year. They've lost so many close games the exact same way that it's apparent that this team simply cannot make the adjustments necessary to win close games.

I predict they'll squeeze into the NCAA Tournament, but it will be as a 15-16 seed.

Regarding assistant coaches, I believe it's very possible that the Wildcat's mediocre coaching staff could be the problem. Still, if the HEAD coach can't make changes necessary to improve the team, should he still be the head coach? Honestly, I don't know if I'm willing to give Tubby another year even if he were to announce a house-cleaning in regards to his assistants. Tubby lost control of this team back when Gerald Fitch was still playing. The off-court problems have disappeared, but the on-court ones are still front-and-center.

BRM
02-26-2007, 11:32 AM
There is no way Kentucky will be a 15 or 16 seed. A 10 or 11 maybe but certainly not a 15.

cincy jacket
02-26-2007, 11:35 AM
[QUOTE=durl;1249731]
I predict they'll squeeze into the NCAA Tournament, but it will be as a 15-16 seed.

QUOTE]

They should still make the tournament but they won't be a 15 or 16 seed. They will probablly be a 10 or 11 and play someone like Oregon or Butler and lose by 3 or 4 due to a boneheaded play by Crawford or Bradley in the final minute. To be fair though they might not even deserve to be in the tournament. Who have they beat? I know their RPI is at 10 as of this morning but that is more because of who they have lost to (UNC, Memphis, UCLA, Florida) than who they have beat (a struggling UL at the time and Indiana? I am having trouble coming up with another big win). As much as the committee says tradition and history does not play a part in the selection process I bet it is UK's saving grace this year.

BRM
02-26-2007, 11:38 AM
Kentucky is 10 in the RPI? Wow, I didn't know that. They may end up with a better seed than I thought.

durl
02-26-2007, 12:04 PM
If the brackets were picked today, I would completely agree that Kentucky could be a 10 seed. What makes me think they'll be lower is that they still have 2 more games before the SEC Tournament and I wouldn't be surprised if they lose both of them. Sure, one is Florida, but if they DO lose both games, they'll end up 8-8 in the SEC, one space away from the basement.

Perhaps I'm being pessimistic. I just haven't seen must to be optimistic about over the past month.

macro
02-26-2007, 12:39 PM
BRM and jacket are right - 15 and 16 seeds are generally reserved for the obscure teams from minor conferences. The major schools either get in as a 12 or better or don't make it at all.


Regarding assistant coaches, I believe it's very possible that the Wildcat's mediocre coaching staff could be the problem. Still, if the HEAD coach can't make changes necessary to improve the team, should he still be the head coach? Honestly, I don't know if I'm willing to give Tubby another year even if he were to announce a house-cleaning in regards to his assistants. Tubby lost control of this team back when Gerald Fitch was still playing. The off-court problems have disappeared, but the on-court ones are still front-and-center.

Point well-taken.

dabvu2498
02-27-2007, 10:00 AM
Barnhart: Wait, then decide
As Smith's critics grouse, AD says post-season could change minds
By Jerry Tipton
HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER

University of Kentucky Athletics Director Mitch Barnhart acknowledged the disappointment of this basketball season yesterday, but cautioned fans to consider the possibility of a post-season turnaround.

In a statement released late in the afternoon, Barnhart noted the importance of waiting "until the most critical part of the season is complete before reviewing the program."

His statement did not mention by name UK Coach Tubby Smith, who has been the target of fan criticism. The statement implied that Smith's performance as coach would be part of a post-season evaluation.

"Our fans' lofty expectations for this program, which I share, have not changed," Barnhart was quoted as saying. "However, history tells us that the college basketball season can change quite a bit between February and March. If the close games we've lost in February become victories during the tournaments, then this team has a chance to play up to its potential, which is what all of us as Wildcat fans want."

During his turn on a Southeastern Conference coaches' teleconference, Smith was philosophical about his critics.

"Well, they're always out there," he said. "The only way to keep them out of the way is to win. Losing four of five games doesn't help."

Kentucky (19-9) missed a golden opportunity for a season-changing victory at Vanderbilt on Sunday. The Cats never trailed until the final 25 seconds. Then they lost 67-65 in a virtual repeat of six earlier losses in which a failure to execute at crunch time made the difference.

"We're finding ways to lose instead of finding ways to win," Smith said.

Barnhart's statement was not discussed on Smith's weekly radio show last night. The hourlong program included only two calls from listeners.

Heralded prospect Patrick Patterson, one of the most highly coveted recruits in UK basketball history, told the Herald-Leader that Smith was the "main reason" he was considering Kentucky. If UK were to dismiss Smith as coach, "I'd be very disappointed," Patterson said. "It'd affect my decision."

Asked whether he'd scratch UK from his list of six schools, Patterson said, "Probably."

Patterson, a 6-foot-8 power forward and McDonald's All-American from Huntington, W.Va., plans to narrow his list of schools to three by mid-March. He's also considering Duke, Florida, West Virginia, Wake Forest and Virginia. He plans to make his college choice April 3.

That's the same date UK is contractually obligated to pay Smith a $1,500,000 retention bonus.

Smith's contract runs through the 2010-11 season. His compensation through that period is $8.8 million.

If UK dismissed Smith as coach, the school would be obligated to pay him $1 million for each season remaining in the contract.

UK spokesman Scott Stricklin said rumors of boosters being approached to contribute to a buyout fund were "completely inaccurate."

Smith has been one of the most successful coaches in the history of the Southeastern Conference and college basketball. His 384 career victories rank fifth all-time for coaches in their first 16 seasons. His .700 winning percentage in the NCAA Tournament ranks sixth among active coaches.

In his 10 seasons for UK, Smith's teams have won or shared five regular-season league championships, seven divisional titles and five SEC Tournaments. The regular-season titles rank third all-time behind two former UK coaches, Adolph Rupp (27) and Joe B. Hall (eight). No SEC coach has won more divisional titles. Rick Pitino (UK) and Billy Donovan (Florida) are second with four each.

Smith's five SEC Tournament titles tie for second most with Pitino and Wimp Sanderson of Alabama. Rupp won 13 such championships.


http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/16791626.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

TeamSelig
02-27-2007, 01:38 PM
I think landing Patterson would turn our program around. *prays*

durl
02-27-2007, 03:21 PM
I think landing Patterson would turn our program around. *prays*

I would hope that he would make a huge difference. Even so, he's just one player and I believe most of us agree that this team's problems go deeper than missing one huge freshman recruit.

A few years ago, the problem was bad team chemistry and off-court antics. Last year, the problem was that Tubby's players didn't want to follow his system. This year, Tubby says the problem is the "personnel."

At some point, the coach has GOT to take responsibility for these many shortcomings. Landing a key recruit won't mean much if the coaching staff can't make the team as a whole work.

I apologize. I know I sound very pessimistic and I really don't want to be. Tubby has a good win/loss record here and he's done good things while coach. It's just hard to endure the low-lights coming one after another over the past couple of years. It's time for a new attitude with this program and I believe the best way to get it may be to start over with a whole new staff.

Javy Pornstache
02-27-2007, 03:25 PM
No single player, Patterson, Lucas, whoever, is going to make a difference with what's been wrong with UK basketball the last few years. You'd be hard-pressed to find a better incoming class at UK in quite a spell than we had a few years ago with Morris, Bradley, Rondo and Crawford (not to mention Sparks' transfer) and that didn't exactly turn out roses.

WMR
02-27-2007, 03:47 PM
Well that article at least doesn't make it sound like Barnyard's head is totally in the sand.

IslandRed
02-27-2007, 03:53 PM
In the "for what it's worth" department: UK just played down here, and after touching base with his buddies covering UK, a local radio host, George Plaster, told his audience yesterday afternoon that Barnhart's been running his mouth a little too freely (not to the media, but around town) about Smith, and Tubby's aware of it. The perceived weakness of the assistants is a primary issue, as is the team's malaise in general. Furthermore, Barnhart has the backing of the "right boosters" should it come to a showdown. Barring an unexpectedly deep run in the NCAAs, the situation could very well come to a head following the season.

None of that is probably a surprise to anyone around Lexington but I wasn't aware things were that strained.

cincy jacket
02-27-2007, 04:00 PM
Kind of putting the cart way before the horse here, but who would be a realistic candidate to be the new coach if Tubby decides to pursue his craft elsewhere after the season? I don't think that Billy the Kid would leave Florida even for Kentucky. John Beilein from West Virginia plays a style that the fans at UK would love. John Calipari from Memphi, Mark Few Gonzaga, Billy Gillispie Texas A&M, or who else. I really can't think of anyone who jumps out as a no doubt about it lets take him choice (under the assumption of course that Billy Donovan won't leave Florida)

WMR
02-27-2007, 04:02 PM
I heard Mike D'Antoni's name being bandied about... he's from WV... tired of the NBA?

durl
02-27-2007, 04:04 PM
In the "for what it's worth" department: UK just played down here, and after touching base with his buddies covering UK, a local radio host, George Plaster, told his audience yesterday afternoon that Barnhart's been running his mouth a little too freely (not to the media, but around town) about Smith, and Tubby's aware of it. The perceived weakness of the assistants is a primary issue, as is the team's malaise in general. Furthermore, Barnhart has the backing of the "right boosters" should it come to a showdown. Barring an unexpectedly deep run in the NCAAs, the situation could very well come to a head following the season.

None of that is probably a surprise to anyone around Lexington but I wasn't aware things were that strained.

That's going to make me listen to Plaster on the way home today. (I usually avoid it because his show seems it's 99.9% football.)

I believe Barnhart has GOT to feel the pressure to see improvement for 2 reasons: (1) Ticket prices at Rupp will go up next year. If people are complaining now, think of how they'll complain then. And (2) Tubby is due for a $1.5 million dollar bonus next year. It's going to be VERY hard to justify that amount of cash going to a coach who is watching this program lose it's elite status.

Javy Pornstache
02-27-2007, 04:07 PM
D'Antoni is being mentioned a lot primarily because of his WV roots and the word that his wife has been wanting to move closer to home. That, and he is a professed UK fan, his all-time favorite teams were the Rupp's Runts teams.

TeamSelig
02-27-2007, 06:56 PM
I doubt he would leave though, while having the success that he has had.

I see what you're saying about one player won't fix all of the problems, but Patterson is a top notch player. Aside from being an amazing player, he's a good team player as well.

Anyone think that if Tubby doesn't land Patterson that he will be fired?

Blimpie
02-27-2007, 07:24 PM
I repeat: The way his contract is structured, Tubby Smith is not going anywhere unless he decides that it is time to move on.

durl
02-28-2007, 10:23 AM
I found this other bit of info this morning in John Clay's column on Kentucky.com:

"Consider this: Kentucky's current 17-13 conference record is the second worst two-year stretch of SEC basketball in school history. The worst? Eddie Sutton's final year coupled with Rick Pitino's first season, when UK was on probation. Those two combined for an 18-18 SEC mark."

It's all about the trend. The team is simply going in the wrong direction.


I repeat: The way his contract is structured, Tubby Smith is not going anywhere unless he decides that it is time to move on.

I haven't read the contract. What makes it so difficult for UK to let Tubby go? I did read somewhere that Kentucky would have to pay him $1 million for each year remaining on his contract (4 years, I believe) if they were to fire him. A huge amount of money, to be sure, but that doesn't seem enough of a reason to keep him for 4 more years. What else is in there?

cincy jacket
02-28-2007, 12:03 PM
To answer my own question from earlier if anyone else was interested, the last time UK went the entire season without beating a ranked team was 33 years ago.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2781315

FutureRedsGM
02-28-2007, 12:07 PM
As an anti-Tubby guy, I appreciate where my measly "senior night' thread has gone. However, Senior Night is upon us and I have a littel question. Tip off is scheduled for 8:00. What time should I plan in being in my seat to ensure that I see all of the senior night festivities?

Sweetstop
02-28-2007, 12:50 PM
They will start around 7:40 p.m.

dabvu2498
02-28-2007, 03:23 PM
LEXINGTON, Ky. -- First place is out of reach. Second place looks doubtful. With two tough games left, it'll even take some work for Kentucky to finish as high as fourth in the Southeastern Conference East.

The Wildcats (19-9, 8-6), the winningest college basketball program in history, have lost four of their last five games, and some fans are placing the blame squarely on coach Tubby Smith.

But Tuesday, the two-time national coach of the year brushed aside speculation his job is in jeopardy if the team doesn't finish strong. When his players host Georgia (17-10, 8-6) Wednesday in their home finale, they should have no fears about preserving his 10-year tenure as Kentucky's coach, Smith said.

"They don't have to worry about my job being on the line," Smith said. "They need to be concentrating on playing to the best of their abilities."

Speculation about Smith's future was amplified Monday when athletic director Mitch Barnhart released a statement acknowledging fans' dissatisfaction with the season, but urging them not to make any evaluations until March.

Smith, who led the Wildcats to the 1998 national championship in his first season at the helm, said he spoke with Barnhart before the statement was released. He said he perceived it as a sign of support, not a threat about improving the program's record by tournament time.

"Certainly sitting here at 19-9 ... I'm not going to defend my record or anything else," Smith said. "But I guess Mitch felt like he needed to make a comment, from what I understand. I'm sure he gets calls just like everybody else."

Kentucky's leading scorer, junior center Randolph Morris, said pressure is just part of the job description for any coach of the Wildcats because of the sky-high expectations. The players don't expect his job to be on the line, regardless of how the team finishes, Morris said.

"I feel it," Morris said. "He lets us have a little fraction ... of the heat he's facing. He's under extreme scrutiny. There's no place in the country like the heat he's taking personally."

If Smith is the biggest rumored departure in Lexington, Morris probably ranks second. On Tuesday, he said he hadn't yet made up his mind whether to return to Kentucky for his senior season or turn pro. Without Morris, next year's Wildcats could lack a major inside scoring presence.

Seniors Bobby Perry and Lukasz Obrzut, who are preparing to make their final appearance at Rupp Arena, said the criticism of Smith is the result of impatient fans who don't recognize the growth the program has made.

"Coach is a really strong individual," Obrzut said. "He's been coaching basketball for 35 years. I'm not even that old. I know he cares a lot about us as players. He cares a lot about this program."

All the same, barring an undefeated run ending with a national championship, the Wildcats are guaranteed a second straight double-digit loss season and fifth overall under Smith. They also are in line to miss a first-round bye in the SEC tournament in back-to-back years.

While Kentucky has made the NCAA Tournament every year under Smith and is expected to qualify again this season, the team hasn't advanced to the Final Four since the 1998 championship run.

Many fans point out that while Smith coached that team, the players were recruited by his predecessor, Rick Pitino, now the coach at rival Louisville. The recent success of the surging Cardinals likely hasn't helped matters for Kentucky fans.

"I know it's a tough job, probably the toughest job in college basketball as far as coaching," Perry said. "We know the pressures that come with that job. He's very qualified for what he does. He wouldn't be in this position if he wasn't."

Smith said he thinks the team has had a relatively good season and needs to work on finishing games and cutting down on turnovers. As for the recent slump, including a heartbreaker Sunday at Vanderbilt in which the Wildcats led until the final seconds, Smith is confident there will be a swift turnaround.



"Certainly I'm not happy with four out of five losses, but I'm not going to jump off a building," Smith said. "I don't think anybody else should either."



Copyright 2007 by The Associated Press



http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2782724&campaign=rss&source=NCAAHeadlines

WVRed
02-28-2007, 04:03 PM
No single player, Patterson, Lucas, whoever, is going to make a difference with what's been wrong with UK basketball the last few years. You'd be hard-pressed to find a better incoming class at UK in quite a spell than we had a few years ago with Morris, Bradley, Rondo and Crawford (not to mention Sparks' transfer) and that didn't exactly turn out roses.

I don't think Patterson and Lucas are even locks for Kentucky at the moment. If Patterson had wanted to come to UK, I believe he would have already committed by now. I think he is waiting to see what happens with Noah at Florida before making a decision.

The D'antoni rumors seem a little far fetched, although. I would be more in favor of a John Calipari or even a John Beilein, even though he hasnt had the success this season. I think with Kentucky's name and his style of play he would generate some recruiting interest that West Virginia cannot offer.

WMR
02-28-2007, 05:37 PM
Hahahaha... Yeah Bobby Perry you exemplify perfectly the "growth" UK has had the past 4 seasons. HAhahahaha too funny.

WMR
02-28-2007, 05:39 PM
Smith said he thinks the team has had a relatively good season and needs to work on finishing games and cutting down on turnovers. As for the recent slump, including a heartbreaker Sunday at Vanderbilt in which the Wildcats led until the final seconds, Smith is confident there will be a swift turnaround.



"Certainly I'm not happy with four out of five losses, but I'm not going to jump off a building," Smith said. "I don't think anybody else should either."

Nah, I'm not worried about you jumping off a building, Tubby, you've got too many big unearned checks left to cash.

WMR
02-28-2007, 09:21 PM
I'm halfway rooting for UK to lose their final two games, and first games of the SEC tourney and NCAA tourney. I think that really would be enough to get Tubby canned.

Sweetstop
03-01-2007, 09:15 AM
I'm halfway rooting for UK to lose their final two games, and first games of the SEC tourney and NCAA tourney. I think that really would be enough to get Tubby canned.

Hope your other half cheered last night.

WMR
03-01-2007, 09:46 AM
Well out of the 4 games remaining, last night was the one that I most expected them to win.

dabvu2498
03-01-2007, 09:55 AM
They will win one game in the SEC tourney.

Blimpie
03-01-2007, 09:14 PM
It is not just that UK would have to eat $ 4,000,000 to keep Tubby from coaching here. Barnhardt is a big Tubby backer and I think he realizes that there are no lead-pipe locks in this day and age in college basketball. Not many coaches can handle the pressure of these ridiculous fan expectations...and yes, they are ridiculous. Mitch knows that Tubby has the demeanor to handle the fellowship of the miserable. These are the same people who extrapolate statistics about the UK record during the last two years; however, they see fit to omit the statistics from the prior eight.


Smith has been one of the most successful coaches in the history of the Southeastern Conference and college basketball. His 384 career victories rank fifth all-time for coaches in their first 16 seasons. His .700 winning percentage in the NCAA Tournament ranks sixth among active coaches.

In his 10 seasons for UK, Smith's teams have won or shared five regular-season league championships, seven divisional titles and five SEC Tournaments. The regular-season titles rank third all-time behind two former UK coaches, Adolph Rupp (27) and Joe B. Hall (eight). No SEC coach has won more divisional titles. Rick Pitino (UK) and Billy Donovan (Florida) are second with four each.

Smith's five SEC Tournament titles tie for second most with Pitino and Wimp Sanderson of Alabama. Rupp won 13 such championships.

Barnhardt realizes that parity is everywhere and everybody always comes gunning for the marquis programs. It is just a matter of time that a # 16 seed beats a # 1 in March. Personally, I think it could even happen in two weeks. UK has been abysmal versus the Top 25 this year, but this wasn't exactly playing against # 22-24. They have consistently played one of the toughest schedules in the nation for about five straight years.

By the way, riddle me this: Who the hell is UK going to get this April who is better suited to coach UK than Tubby? Donovan? That's crazy talk. Billy Donovan and his rapidly growing family are more firmly entrenched in Gainesville than Tubby is in Lexington. He can write his own ticket down there and wants to leave his own legacy somewhere. That's something Tubby could have cared less about when he came to UK. Kelvin Sampson? Not with his recent slap from the NCAA. Let's hear the list, people...

Further, don't discount the Patterson factor in all of this. I agree with what WV Red said about Patterson leaning towards Florida depending upon which of their players depart. However, because Patterson is waiting until after the tournament to decide, he is essentially buying Tubby job security in the process.


Heralded prospect Patrick Patterson, one of the most highly coveted recruits in UK basketball history, told the Herald-Leader that Smith was the "main reason" he was considering Kentucky. If UK were to dismiss Smith as coach, "I'd be very disappointed," Patterson said. "It'd affect my decision."

Asked whether he'd scratch UK from his list of six schools, Patterson said, "Probably."

Patterson, a 6-foot-8 power forward and McDonald's All-American from Huntington, W.Va., plans to narrow his list of schools to three by mid-March. He's also considering Duke, Florida, West Virginia, Wake Forest and Virginia. He plans to make his college choice April 3.

That's the same date UK is contractually obligated to pay Smith a $1,500,000 retention bonus.

Smith's contract runs through the 2010-11 season. His compensation through that period is $8.8 million.

If UK dismissed Smith as coach, the school would be obligated to pay him $1 million for each season remaining in the contract.
UK spokesman Scott Stricklin said rumors of boosters being approached to contribute to a buyout fund were "completely inaccurate."

WMR
03-01-2007, 09:31 PM
LOL Blimpie so you're drinking the Tubby kool-aid? I'm just plain sick of it.

Blimpie
03-01-2007, 09:44 PM
LOL Blimpie so you're drinking the Tubby kool-aid? I'm just plain sick of it.Nah, not really much of a Kool-Aid fan. Admittedly, I have lots of problems with Tubby's X's and O's. I gripe constantly while I watch the games. I swear up and down that his style of offense might harm us in our recruiting efforts.

On the other hand...

I have a real hard time completely discounting what he has done while he has been here. The numbers speak for themselves--and they are damn impressive. There have been many fine players who have come through Lexington and Tubby was responsible for their recruitment. In fact, I have a wonderful feeling about the current freshman class. I feel that Jodie Meeks is the best player on the team...right now--NO B.S.

But mostly, I am just sick of people whining with a false sense of entitlement. Instead of trying to hang him in effigy, how about let me know who might be better suited to run this program.

We have so much to be thankful for with this program. But remember that this winning legacy has been about they guys who have worn the suits and have barked out the calls for all of those decades. The legacy is NOT because of the idiot fans who are clogging the airways with their inane perspectives. I have been a UK basketball fan literally my entire life and I am embarrassed to admit that when I hear some of the crap that comes out of the mouths of some of my peers.

So, I ask once again, who would YOU like to turn the keys over to??

WMR
03-01-2007, 09:52 PM
Well I think it's important to say that there's plenty of idiot UK bball fans but that doesn't mean that Tubby deserves carte blanche...

Mike D'Antoni??? Supposedly he's become disenchanted with the NBA... tell me any player that wouldn't love to play for a coach running Mike's offense with his obvious NBA credentials? There's a name for ya. :)

Blimpie
03-01-2007, 09:54 PM
Well I think it's important to say that there's plenty of idiot UK bball fans but that doesn't mean that Tubby deserves carte blanche...

Mike D'Antoni??? Supposedly he's become disenchanted with the NBA... tell me any player that wouldn't love to play for a coach running Mike's offense with his obvious NBA credentials? There's a name for ya. :)Let's see, a short Italian coach from the NBA. Something seems familiar to me...:cool:

WMR
03-01-2007, 09:55 PM
HAhahahahahahaahahahaha

WMR
03-01-2007, 09:56 PM
That's the thing, Blimpie... I *want* to like Tubby... he just makes it so damn hard.

WMR
03-01-2007, 10:01 PM
And has what Tubby has done the past 7 years or so really that impressive? When you look at the teams he schedules, is a 20 win season really all that impressive considering that we ARE, after all, Kentucky? I dunno...

jmac
03-02-2007, 12:29 AM
Havent read entire thread but I will mention on a louisville station last night, Barnhart was interviewed and said something like ..."I came here to add some Final Four's to my resume and I've not done that yet"

Tubby seems like a good coach to lead a team to a top 15 ranking but I have my doubts whether he can lead a program to the top on a "consistent" basis.
Sorta along the lines of Shottenhiemer.

People speak of Donavan etc but I think a guy like Travis Ford would be a good choice if the spot comes open.
A fast paced offense that would lure more big names to Ky.
Plus Ford would be a guy with deep Ky roots who I dont think would run off at first good offer.
I could be wrong but just my opinion.

durl
03-02-2007, 12:13 PM
It is not just that UK would have to eat $ 4,000,000 to keep Tubby from coaching here. Barnhardt is a big Tubby backer and I think he realizes that there are no lead-pipe locks in this day and age in college basketball. Not many coaches can handle the pressure of these ridiculous fan expectations...and yes, they are ridiculous. Mitch knows that Tubby has the demeanor to handle the fellowship of the miserable. These are the same people who extrapolate statistics about the UK record during the last two years; however, they see fit to omit the statistics from the prior eight.

You're exactly right when it comes to Tubby's good numbers in his first years at UK. And we HAVE to pay attention to them because they represent what he's accomplished here.

That being said, (I'm sure you knew there was a "but" of some sort coming) it's the trend we've seen over the past several years that bothers me. The off-court drama from several years back coupled with extreme inconsistency on the court the past 2 years can be seen as warning signs that something is wrong. I don't take dismissing a head coach like Tubby lightly and I'm not a "what have you done for me lately" kind of fan. Losing early in the NCAAs, failing to beat a ranked team all season, long losing streaks to Florida and Vandy (!!!) seem to be the current trend and the good stats for the past few years are few and far between.

jmac
03-02-2007, 01:04 PM
You're exactly right when it comes to Tubby's good numbers in his first years at UK. And we HAVE to pay attention to them because they represent what he's accomplished here.

That being said, (I'm sure you knew there was a "but" of some sort coming) it's the trend we've seen over the past several years that bothers me. The off-court drama from several years back coupled with extreme inconsistency on the court the past 2 years can be seen as warning signs that something is wrong. I don't take dismissing a head coach like Tubby and I'm not a "what have you done for me lately" kind of fan. Losing early in the NCAAs, failing to beat a ranked team all season, long losing streaks to Florida and Vandy (!!!) seem to be the current trend and the good stats for the past few years are few and far between.
I'm not big on using the "he won with so-and-so's players " but the fact is the first couple of years were not Tubby's recruits.
Here is my take on Tubby:
He does not recruit well.....He pulled out a few aces with guys like Hayes and Daniels but that isnt gonna happen very often.
Instead of kids like Loften, we wanted Stockten:rolleyes: etc
Porter , Stevenson,Jasper would be good role players but not the kind that can carry a team.With this year's freshmen and if Lucas and Patterson say No,then UK will be hurting again.

There is now no mystic about coming to Rupp Arena.
Used to, teams knew...you "dont" expect to come to UK and win.
Not anymore.
Now teams like LSU and Georgia can come in without key players and play like they expect to win (and almost pull it off).
Tubby is a good guy but IMO the UK program has fallen into just "top 20" status now instead of one of the elite's.
As I said before...without the 2 kids who I doubt very seriously will come (patterson especially)....I dont see a Top 10 ranking any time soon.

durl
03-02-2007, 05:37 PM
jmac, I agree completely with every point.

Redhook
03-02-2007, 05:58 PM
I'm a big Kentucky fan it is painful to watch this year's team. This is the first year since 1990 (when I first started watching college basketball and shortly thereafter became a UK fan) that I have not watched or attempted to watch every single game. They're bad and boring.

UK has been on a downward trend for year's now. I like Tubby as a person and I actually think he is a good coach. I'm not a huge fan of his style of play, but it is effective and he usually doesn't have the fire power to play any differently. That being said, IMO, he is terrible at recruiting. Terrible. It's mindboggling that he can't get good players to play for him at Kentucky. One of the top 3 collegiate basketball programs and he gets average players. It's not a good sign when the University of Kentucky basketball coach, #1 program in NCAA wins IIRC, can't sign good high school players.

It's time to for Tubby to step down. It's been a good ride. Started out great and had some good times, but it's time to walk away Tubby. If he stays much longer it's going to be incredibly difficult for him because this team shows no promise of having a good year, by UK's standard, anytime soon. It could get ugly.

jmac
03-02-2007, 07:01 PM
he usually doesn't have the fire power to play any differently. That being said, IMO, he is terrible at recruiting. Terrible. It's mindboggling that he can't get good players to play for him at Kentucky. One of the top 3 collegiate basketball programs and he gets average players. It's not a good sign when the University of Kentucky basketball coach, #1 program in NCAA wins IIRC, can't sign good high school players.



I was telling someone the other day that isnt it ironic: years ago Joe B Hall heard complaints constantly because he was always having several All-Americans on every team yet not win the big one.....and now we have a hard time "just getting" the All-Americans..period.

Javy Pornstache
03-02-2007, 09:57 PM
1. In 10 years at UK, Tubby Smith has suffered 19 losses at Rupp Arena. Rick Pitino suffered only 5 losses at Rupp in eight years on the job. (7 losses if you count the probation year.)

2. Tubby Smith, with one more loss this year, will suffer his fifth double-digit loss season in 10 years as UK’s coach, compared to none by Rick Pitino. (1 if you count the probation year.)

3. Games played in, when the Cats were ranked number one in the nation: 10 under Pitino — 4 under Tubby.

4. The number of “Team Turmoil’s” in the program: Pitino 0 — Tubby 2.

5. The number of NBA first round draft picks from Kentucky: 10 under Pitino — 2 under Tubby.

6. The number of transfers out of the program: 7 under Pitino — 14 under Tubby.

7. Rick Pitino’s first Kentucky team, saddled with probation in the 1989—’90 season, averaged 10 points per game more than all but two of Tubby Smith’s Kentucky teams. Pitino’s teams averaged 8.9 points per game more than those two teams.

8. In Pitino’s last year at Kentucky, a runner-up to Arizona in the 1997 national championship game at the RCA Dome in Indianapolis, Kentucky averaged 83.13 points per game. Tubby’s UK teams, beginning in his first year on the job, have averaged the following: 1997-’98—80.08; 1998-’99—75.41; 1999-’00—69.09; 2000-’01—79.79; 2001-’02—76.88

2002-’03—77.28; 2003-’04—73.91; 2004-’05—73.62; 2005-’06—70.77; and 2006-’07—72.32, entering the Georgia game earlier this week.

9. The number of Final Fours: Pitino has been to five Final Fours, 3 with Kentucky. Tubby has been to one Final Four—the 1998 national championship team (Pitino’s players).

10. Tubby Smith has never recruited a kid that has played in a Final Four, and that counts his time at Tulsa and Georgia. Let me say that again. Tubby Smith has never recruited a player that has played in a Final Four. I wonder how that idiot Dick Vitale could spin that fact in Tubby’s favor?

11. One last tidbit. Rick Pitino has defeated 11 teams seeded 5th or higher in 6 NCAA Tournaments, while Tubby Smith has defeated 4 teams seeded 5th or higher, in 9 NCAA Tournaments. Tubby has defeated only one team seeded fifth or higher since his first season at Kentucky.
----
I personally am not just comparing Tubby to Pitino; regardless of comparison, Tubby's not getting the job done. Some of the above stats are certainly not as important as others, but there are very, very telling stats there. These are stats similar to what I have posted on here before, and many others have called up before, but putting them out there again as these ran in a story earlier today. Link:

http://www.somerset-kentucky.com/siteSearch/apstorysection/local_story_061091206.html

Blimpie
03-02-2007, 10:57 PM
Where's the stat comparing Pitino and Tubby for "12. Number/Frequency of daliances with NBA suitors?" (a.k.a. "right of passage into spring" for Lexingtonians throughout the early-late 90s)


Javy, in all seriousness, that's some pretty compelling stuff. After Pitino's tenth season in Louisville, let's you and I get together for a beer and we can see how his record stacks up against Denny Crum...

Redhook
03-03-2007, 01:22 AM
1. In 10 years at UK, Tubby Smith has suffered 19 losses at Rupp Arena. Rick Pitino suffered only 5 losses at Rupp in eight years on the job. (7 losses if you count the probation year.)

2. Tubby Smith, with one more loss this year, will suffer his fifth double-digit loss season in 10 years as UK’s coach, compared to none by Rick Pitino. (1 if you count the probation year.)

3. Games played in, when the Cats were ranked number one in the nation: 10 under Pitino — 4 under Tubby.

4. The number of “Team Turmoil’s” in the program: Pitino 0 — Tubby 2.

5. The number of NBA first round draft picks from Kentucky: 10 under Pitino — 2 under Tubby.

6. The number of transfers out of the program: 7 under Pitino — 14 under Tubby.

7. Rick Pitino’s first Kentucky team, saddled with probation in the 1989—’90 season, averaged 10 points per game more than all but two of Tubby Smith’s Kentucky teams. Pitino’s teams averaged 8.9 points per game more than those two teams.

8. In Pitino’s last year at Kentucky, a runner-up to Arizona in the 1997 national championship game at the RCA Dome in Indianapolis, Kentucky averaged 83.13 points per game. Tubby’s UK teams, beginning in his first year on the job, have averaged the following: 1997-’98—80.08; 1998-’99—75.41; 1999-’00—69.09; 2000-’01—79.79; 2001-’02—76.88

2002-’03—77.28; 2003-’04—73.91; 2004-’05—73.62; 2005-’06—70.77; and 2006-’07—72.32, entering the Georgia game earlier this week.

9. The number of Final Fours: Pitino has been to five Final Fours, 3 with Kentucky. Tubby has been to one Final Four—the 1998 national championship team (Pitino’s players).

10. Tubby Smith has never recruited a kid that has played in a Final Four, and that counts his time at Tulsa and Georgia. Let me say that again. Tubby Smith has never recruited a player that has played in a Final Four. I wonder how that idiot Dick Vitale could spin that fact in Tubby’s favor?

11. One last tidbit. Rick Pitino has defeated 11 teams seeded 5th or higher in 6 NCAA Tournaments, while Tubby Smith has defeated 4 teams seeded 5th or higher, in 9 NCAA Tournaments. Tubby has defeated only one team seeded fifth or higher since his first season at Kentucky.
----
I personally am not just comparing Tubby to Pitino; regardless of comparison, Tubby's not getting the job done. Some of the above stats are certainly not as important as others, but there are very, very telling stats there. These are stats similar to what I have posted on here before, and many others have called up before, but putting them out there again as these ran in a story earlier today. Link:

http://www.somerset-kentucky.com/siteSearch/apstorysection/local_story_061091206.html

Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to type this up.

Javy Pornstache
03-03-2007, 02:28 AM
Where's the stat comparing Pitino and Tubby for "12. Number/Frequency of daliances with NBA suitors?" (a.k.a. "right of passage into spring" for Lexingtonians throughout the early-late 90s)


Javy, in all seriousness, that's some pretty compelling stuff. After Pitino's tenth season in Louisville, let's you and I get together for a beer and we can see how his record stacks up against Denny Crum...

Haha, it's a plan, Blimpie, we'll do equal time and crunch Pitino-Crum numbers, no doubt. :beerme:

You're right though, Rick did play up the NBA card quite often, but hey... at least he was in demand! :D Tubby at least did receive serious interest from the 76ers a few years back and was said to have received interest at other times from Atlanta and Charlotte off the top of my head, though I am not sure if there was much behind it. Best I remember though, he allegedly came close to taking the Sixers job before backing out/being talked out.

Blimpie
03-03-2007, 02:45 PM
Haha, it's a plan, Blimpie, we'll do equal time and crunch Pitino-Crum numbers, no doubt. :beerme:

You're right though, Rick did play up the NBA card quite often, but hey... at least he was in demand! :D Tubby at least did receive serious interest from the 76ers a few years back and was said to have received interest at other times from Atlanta and Charlotte off the top of my head, though I am not sure if there was much behind it. Best I remember though, he allegedly came close to taking the Sixers job before backing out/being talked out.Yeah, recently the Atlanta thing for Tubby has popped up more than a few times in rumors. I think the owner down there has a man-crush on Tubby.

I guess the biggest differentiation in my mind was that, it was revealed after the fact, that Pitino was frequently having his people "reach out" to NBA owners about job openings. Meanwhile he would sit back and say "I have not had conversations with any teams..." From my UK fan perspective having to live through that, it gets old really fast. It also has its own little impact on recruiting.

To my knowledge, the only time Tubby has had any personal "conversations" with NBA team owners was when the 76ers job was offered. That was right on the heels of Saul Smith being booed at home for the season (class move) and I fully expected Tubby to leave at that time.

WMR
03-04-2007, 03:21 PM
Nothing like a game against UK to get your season back on track.

WVRed
03-04-2007, 04:17 PM
http://www.firetubbysmith.com/images/splash/rotate.php

I'm officially pulling for Kentucky to lose from here on out this season. The sooner Tubby is out, the better.

PS:Refresh for a different picture each time.:) Courtesy of firetubbysmith.com

Blimpie
03-04-2007, 04:49 PM
And now, for something completely different:


Posted on Sun, Mar. 04, 2007

Smith has earned chance to rebound

By John Clay
HERALD-LEADER SPORTS COLUMNIST

Let's go on record right here, right now.

Before Kentucky plays Florida today in Gainesville. Before the Cats open SEC Tournament play on Thursday. Before the Cats head on to their 15th consecutive NCAA Tournament appearance next week.

Whatever happens the rest of the season makes no difference.

Tubby Smith should return as Kentucky's basketball coach.

No ifs, ands or buts about it.

Look at his record. Only four coaches have won more games in their first 16 seasons than has Smith. Only five active coaches have produced a better NCAA Tournament winning percentage. Only two coaches have been to more consecutive NCAA Tournaments -- and if Lute Olson fails to make the Big Dance that number is reduced to Roy Williams.

Look at Connecticut, the team that bounced UK from last year's NCAA Tournament. Come Selection Sunday, the Huskies will fail to hear their name called for the second time this decade.

Just four years ago Smith's team won 26 straight games. Smith was a unanimous selection as national coach of the year. Three years ago, his team was the No. 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Two years ago, it was a double-overtime away from reaching the Final Four.

Has Kentucky basketball slipped these past two seasons? Yes. Is criticism justified? Absolutely.

But does Smith deserve the opportunity to put matters back on track?

No question.

When he assumed the presidency at UK in 2001, and again when he brought in Mitch Barnhart as athletics director a year later, Lee Todd talked about changing the culture in UK athletics. And for the most part, the two have done just that.

With the possible exception of a $30 million practice facility for basketball, UK athletics appears to be as balanced and well-rounded as it has ever been.

Forcing out a coach with four years left on his contract doesn't change the win-at-all-costs culture, it makes you a slave to the culture.

It makes you Alabama football, firing Mike Shula a year removed from a 10-2 season. You don't want to be Alabama football.

That's especially true if you force out a coach as well-respected in the coaching community as Smith is. Why, in April 2003, when Kentucky handed its basketball coach a new eight-year deal worth between $20 million and $26 million, Todd talked about how, considering the shenanigans occurring at other programs, he was among the fortunate.

"I don't have to worry about Tubby Smith," he said.

One episode points out Smith's standing. It happened last year when out of the blue, on the eve of losing Randolph Morris for an entire season to NCAA suspension, Smith suddenly "found" an important fax Morris had sent him stating his intention to return to UK if he was not selected in the NBA Draft. Had most other coaches claimed such a find, the university would have been smothered in cynics' sneers. With Smith, few even batted an eye.

True, things change. It's a what have you done for me lately world. Mistakes have been made. Evaluations have been made in error. UK's heralded signee class of 2004 has not lived up to its press clippings. Smith is holding a roster too heavy on holes just when the conference stepped up its basketball production.

Those are correctable errors, however, and we all have our ideas on how they would be best corrected.

But it makes no difference if Kentucky fails to upset Florida in Gainesville today, or fails to win four games in four days in Atlanta, or fails to make a serious run in the Big Dance.

Smith should have the chance to correct them.

No ifs, ands or buts.

Blimpie
03-04-2007, 04:55 PM
And then there is this:


Posted on Sun, Mar. 04, 2007

NOTEBOOK

Experts weigh in on Tubby debate
Analysts say coaching change would be bad for program
By Jerry Tipton
HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER

Kentucky basketball has lost some luster. But if Kentucky fires Tubby Smith, the school should be prepared to take a public relations beating.

That's the opinion of college basketball observers around the country.

"I think they'd get ripped pretty good," said Seth Davis, a writer for Sports Illustrated and a college basketball commentator for CBS. "It'd be pretty unpopular nationally."

Speaking as "just a basketball guy," Jay Bilas of ESPN said of a hypothetical Smith firing, "I'd be stunned by that and appalled that anyone would consider that. If I was an athletic director, I'd be begging Tubby Smith to take a job I had or keep the job he had with me.

"That's beyond my comprehension."

Of course, UK Athletics Director Mitch Barnhart seems to be contemplating a change of coaches. In a statement issued last week, he acknowledged fan disgruntlement while noting that a good March would change perceptions of this season. With Smith due a $1.5 million retention bonus should he remain coach on April 3, Barnhart promised to evaluate the program after the season.

Meanwhile, the college basketball community would frown on a firing of one of the game's most successful coaches.

"I'd think firing Tubby would reflect (right or wrong) a bloodthirsty mentality," columnist Bud Withers of the Seattle Times said in an e-mail message. "How many national championship coaches have ever been fired?"

Sportswriter Wendell Barnhouse of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram predicted a mixed reaction should Kentucky dismiss Smith.

"Some would look at his overall record and accomplishments and wonder why people wanted him gone," Barnhouse wrote in an e-mail message. "Sort of the Earle Bruce of college hoops.

"Others would look at it and say that Kentucky has slipped a notch or two in recent years. The program has been good but not excellent. Most of the other storied programs have had down seasons in the last decade but have bounced back with a Final Four or a national championship. Maybe Kentucky hasn't had a true 'down year,' but it also hasn't been to the Final Four or been a title threat."

Observers noted the increasing difficulty in sustaining a dynasty. Gary Williams, who won a national championship in 2002, failed to get Maryland into three straight NCAA Tournaments. Jim Calhoun, who has guided Connecticut to two national championships, may not get a bid this year. Duke slipped out of the top 25.

However, Davis noted that schools can take a P.R. bath and look fine in the long run. Notre Dame fired football coach Tyrone Willingham. Florida A.D. Jeremy Foley took heat for firing Ron Zook as football coach before the season ended. "How does that look now?" Davis said.

The more pertinent question is this: How does Kentucky look now?

"Keep in mind, I'm viewing from a great distance," Withers said. "I'm of two beliefs -- that Kentucky seems to have, at least in recent years, played sort of an unappealing, hard-to-watch brand of basketball and doesn't seem to have recruited at the level of the program's stature. But it's also a sign of the times that the success the program has had isn't enough for its fans."

Added Barnhouse: "My perception of Kentucky right now is that the fans have had a belly full of Smith and Smith has had a belly full of the fans. UK can be a dickens of a job because there is always great expectations."

However true that might be, ESPN commentator Dick Vitale saw Smith as the person to revive Kentucky basketball.

"Kentucky firing Tubby absolutely would be a joke," Vitale said. "That's not going to happen. Tubby's so good and so special. Everybody in the coaching fraternity knows that."

Bilas said he understood fan unhappiness -- to a point.

"I can always live with informed opinion," he said. "If it says anything but Tubby Smith is one of the best coaches, I disagree with that."

guttle11
03-04-2007, 05:00 PM
I always love how people defend other coaches by saying they're a "good guy" and they "know the game", but in the same breath they call out players for not "getting the job done" or "not playing to their ability level".

It never fails to make me laugh.

UK has stagnated. I'm an outsider (actually a slight anti-UK bias), I can see that Tubby needs to go. It's Kentucky. Unless they're just content to milk their fans for every penny, they need to go out and bring a guy like Travis Ford home. He'd be excellent there. He's been pure gold everywhere he's coached.

WVRed
03-04-2007, 07:26 PM
I always love how people defend other coaches by saying they're a "good guy" and they "know the game", but in the same breath they call out players for not "getting the job done" or "not playing to their ability level".


The way I see it is, the coach is the one who brings the players in to start with. If the players are not getting the job done or playing to the best of their abilities, the blame falls squarely on the coach who brought them in to start with.

For the record, I have found a player now that I can honestly say I detest more thoroughly than Saul Smith, and his name is Ramel Bradley.

WMR
03-04-2007, 08:37 PM
I love all these outsiders who see things sooooo clearly. How does Dick Vitale refute UK losing six times IN A ROW to an opponent for the first time EVER???

Did ANYONE who watched the game today HONESTLY feel like things were going to turn out ANY other way?

Did anyone HONESTLY think Bobby Perry was going to put together 2 good halves or think that Flubby would have them play a 2nd half anywhere like their first?

Last year's team was the dumbest... this one might be the one with the least amount of heart and desire and 'stick-to-it-iveness' I've ever seen play basketball.

And people act as though this program has just had a couple "off years" ... the simple truth of the matter is that this program has been trending downward for at least the past four-five seasons.

Clay should know better. All these national types are campaigning to keep Flubby for a different reason... and it's political correctness taken to its logical conclusion and it absolutely sucks.

cincy jacket
03-04-2007, 09:42 PM
As soon as we see other coaches start to defend Tubby that should be the final nail in the coffin (if it already isnt in there). As Colin Cowherd says when other coaches start defending you then you know that your in trouble. Like when SEC coaches starting telling people that Ron Zook was a good guy and good coach and people needed to leave him alone. Of course they were, they were the ones beating his brains in and didnt want to go back to the Spurrier days when they were getting their own butts kicked. Now that Meyer is in there it looks like things might go back to being like that. If I were the other SEC coaches I would love Tubby being there, I know I have a chance everytime I play them to not only compete but about the half the time pull out the win. It's time to drain the Tub folks.

dabvu2498
03-09-2007, 03:39 PM
Wildcats are getting RAN right now in the 1/4finals of the SEC tourney. Down 12 with 12 minutes left.

WMR
03-09-2007, 04:48 PM
Hopefully one step closer to a draining of the Tub.

WMR
03-09-2007, 04:53 PM
Honest to God, I thought to myself at the end there, 65% we don't even get a shot off. The exact same thing has happened so many times with Tubby's teams in end-game situations.

cincy jacket
03-09-2007, 04:54 PM
This game seemed to wrap up UK's season in a nutshell. So close and just throw it away at the end. Walknig away from the line for a lane violation, Crawford forcing a shot over three people in OT, Crawford watching the ball bounce away instead of hustling after it and then compounding it by standing there staring at the guy and not fouling him. Who will Tubby blame this one on? The players again, the refs, or maybe it's the fans fault for who knows why. As I type this Hansbrough from Miss St in the post game interview is saying how Miss St was rooting for UK yesterday because they wanted to play them instead of Alabama. I have never in my life seen other teams openly root to play UK instead of another team in the SEC tounament. There is a reason UK has won more of these things than all the other teams combined. The sad thing is I never really thought they were going to win. Even with Meeks at the line with a chance to make a four point game with 5 seconds left. I thought to myself "man it's gonna be interesting to see how they blow this" and sure enough they did. Oh well at least the school I go to now (Wright St.) is in the NCAA. I would actually right now, without knowing who either team is playing and being able to break down the matchup, say WSU has a better chance of getting a first round win than UK.

WMR
03-09-2007, 05:02 PM
Outside of a 16/15 seed, there's not a team in the field I'd give a lesser chance of advancing past the first round than UK.

jmac
03-09-2007, 05:22 PM
Does anyone smell an 8 vs 9 1st round game of Duke vs UK ?

jmac
03-09-2007, 05:31 PM
I always love how people defend other coaches by saying they're a "good guy" and they "know the game", but in the same breath they call out players for not "getting the job done" or "not playing to their ability level".

It never fails to make me laugh.

UK has stagnated. I'm an outsider (actually a slight anti-UK bias), I can see that Tubby needs to go. It's Kentucky. Unless they're just content to milk their fans for every penny, they need to go out and bring a guy like Travis Ford home. He'd be excellent there. He's been pure gold everywhere he's coached.

Exactly !
As I have stated before...Tubby is a good coach but to me, he is turning into the Marty Schottenhiemer of college basketball.
He can take a team like Tulsa or Georgia and I think make them a top 25 team.
I think if he coached at schools like North Carolina or Kansas however...you would see similar results as his UK experience.

Travis Ford and his style of play plus recruiting would get KY back on map quick imo

How far have we fallen ?
Lost to Florida 6 straight and Vandy 4 :rolleyes: in a row....nuff said !

WVRed
03-09-2007, 05:32 PM
Does anyone smell an 8 vs 9 1st round game of Duke vs UK ?

With Ohio St waiting in the wings.

Sad thing is, Duke is probably in the same shape as we are right now.

WMR
03-09-2007, 05:33 PM
I think Duke will kick our ass if we play them first round.

jmac
03-09-2007, 05:33 PM
I thought to myself "man it's gonna be interesting to see how they blow this" and sure enough they did.

Funny how things change....used to this line applied to UK football.

jmac
03-09-2007, 05:39 PM
I think ________ will kick our ass if we play them first round.

Fill in the blank with team of your choice.

WVRed
03-09-2007, 05:42 PM
Fill in the blank with team of your choice.

Right now, Lunardi has Winthrop as an 8 playing Kentucky as a 9, with Florida as a no 1 seed. Not happening.

I'd be happy to see Kentucky miss the tournament alltogether.

dabvu2498
03-09-2007, 05:59 PM
Exactly !
Travis Ford and his style of play plus recruiting would get KY back on map quick imo



Really? I disagree with the recruiting part of that assessment.

Look at Umass' roster right now.

6, that's right... 6 Division 1 transfers. A JUCO transfer and a 13th year/prep schooler.

I'd like to see him really prove himself recruiting, not cherry-picking disillusioned players off other teams' rosters, before I name him the head coach at UK.

guttle11
03-09-2007, 06:37 PM
Really? I disagree with the recruiting part of that assessment.

Look at Umass' roster right now.

6, that's right... 6 Division 1 transfers. A JUCO transfer and a 13th year/prep schooler.

I'd like to see him really prove himself recruiting, not cherry-picking disillusioned players off other teams' rosters, before I name him the head coach at UK.

But he got very good players to play for his team. That's the point. UMass does have some transfers and JUCO guys, but they also have some pretty good young talent on their team. Also, he's developed Lasme into a complete beast, blocking more shots himself than close to 300 teams, and getting 4 triple-doubles this year.

Ford was great at EKU, and has completely turned around UMass in very short order. That place was a disaster under Lappas, and he brought them to the brink of the NCAA tourney, before the whole team got the flu and they lost last night in OT.

dabvu2498
03-09-2007, 06:51 PM
Ford was great at EKU

Really???

THE TRAVIS FORD FILE
Ford's Coaching Career

Season School Overall Pct. Conf. Pct.
2000-01 Eastern Kentucky 7-19 .269 1-15 .062
2001-02 Eastern Kentucky 7-20 .259 3-13 .188
2002-03 Eastern Kentucky 11-17 .393 5-11 .313
2003-04 Eastern Kentucky 14-15 .483 8-8 .500 OVC Semifinals
2004-05 Eastern Kentucky 22-9 .710 11-5 .688 NCAA First Round/OVC Champions

This is not a knock on Travis Ford. I just think UK could do better than picking a guy whose primary qualification is being from the state of Kentucky.

jmac
03-09-2007, 07:31 PM
Really? I disagree with the recruiting part of that assessment.

Look at Umass' roster right now.

6, that's right... 6 Division 1 transfers. A JUCO transfer and a 13th year/prep schooler.

I'd like to see him really prove himself recruiting, not cherry-picking disillusioned players off other teams' rosters, before I name him the head coach at UK.

Comparing what he has done at Umass recruiting wise vs what he could/would do at UK is 2 different things.
Also you look at EKU before and after and not just first couple of years.Did you notice the state EKU was in before his arrival?
Rick Pitino's first year with UK was 14-14 but that turned out pretty good, didnt it?
Now are there other guys that would be good candidates if job came open? ...of course.

guttle11
03-09-2007, 08:05 PM
Really???

THE TRAVIS FORD FILE
Ford's Coaching Career

Season School Overall Pct. Conf. Pct.
2000-01 Eastern Kentucky 7-19 .269 1-15 .062
2001-02 Eastern Kentucky 7-20 .259 3-13 .188
2002-03 Eastern Kentucky 11-17 .393 5-11 .313
2003-04 Eastern Kentucky 14-15 .483 8-8 .500 OVC Semifinals
2004-05 Eastern Kentucky 22-9 .710 11-5 .688 NCAA First Round/OVC Champions

This is not a knock on Travis Ford. I just think UK could do better than picking a guy whose primary qualification is being from the state of Kentucky.

And now, two years later, with players he recruited, they won the OVC again. He's turned 2 programs around from nowhere to the top tier of their conference. He's a winner, and a very good coach. If Tubby goes, UK should look at him very closely. He knows what he's doing.

Javy Pornstache
03-09-2007, 08:20 PM
Honest to God, I thought to myself at the end there, 65% we don't even get a shot off. The exact same thing has happened so many times with Tubby's teams in end-game situations.

Funny how you and I and I'm sure many others saw that coming, WilyMo.... yet didn't you know Tubby is a "great Xs and Os coach". At least that's one of the favorite statements from the Tub-pologists.

macro
03-09-2007, 11:49 PM
Does anyone smell an 8 vs 9 1st round game of Duke vs UK ?

Duke will be higher than an 8. Not that they deserve it or anything, but they'll get it. I think they'll get a 6.

Cedric
03-09-2007, 11:51 PM
I don't like anything about Kentucky basketball. That said I want Kentucky to be better than this. I respect the program and I think it helps the sport when they are at least a top 10-15 team.

cincy jacket
03-12-2007, 02:28 PM
Duke will be higher than an 8. Not that they deserve it or anything, but they'll get it. I think they'll get a 6.

Good call on the 6 seed.

Also, it ooks like Tubby will be sticking around awhile longer. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2795480

I doubt Barnhart would say something like this and turn around are fire him three weeks later. Not that something like that is unprecedented but I doubt it. I also doubt Tubby is going to jump ship and take a job like the Bobcats. I guess one can dream though:rolleyes:

cumberlandreds
03-12-2007, 02:35 PM
It took Barnhart about three weeks to clarify his remarks from earlier. Me thinks Tubby has agreed to replace an assistant or two to keep his job. I don't think it will work but it gives the appearance that UK isn't too willing to fire him.

durl
03-12-2007, 03:13 PM
I believe Barnhart will force Tubby to make a LOT of changes with his coaching staff. And I believe it's a good tactic on the AD's part because:

1- It can help avoid the PR nightmare that coaches and writers are predicting if Tubby were to be let go. Of course, we should ignore the PR and do what's right for the team, but these days people are concerned about how something looks.

2- If wholesale changes in his staff turns the team around, everybody's happy.

3- If wholesale changes do NOT work, Barnhart can say that UK gave Tubby every chance to improve but it's now evident that other changes are necessary to turn the program around.

I'd be content to see Tubby go after this year, especially if they lose in the first round. I'd also be perfectly happy to see Tubby remain as coach IF he can get this program back to where it was when he took over the reins. If Tubby can win here, he's welcome for as long as he wants to stay as far as I'm concerned. He just hasn't inspired much confidence over the past several years.

cincy jacket
03-12-2007, 03:23 PM
I agree durl but if the rumors of bringing in someone like Rod Barnes is true; then all it is is relpacing Tubby's current bad coaches with more bad coaches. When bringing in Ole Miss rejects is considered enjecting fresh blood into your program you know something is wrong with your program.

WMR
03-12-2007, 04:21 PM
Please Barnfart, keep playing that fiddle while the great institution which used to be Kentucky Basketball continues to burn.

durl
03-12-2007, 05:09 PM
I agree durl but if the rumors of bringing in someone like Rod Barnes is true; then all it is is relpacing Tubby's current bad coaches with more bad coaches. When bringing in Ole Miss rejects is considered enjecting fresh blood into your program you know something is wrong with your program.

I'm with you. If they're going to force changes, bring in PROVEN recruiters and coaches. I would think that a less-than-successful head coach can be a very good assistant coach...it depends on their abilities. I just believe a program like Kentucky should be able to attract the best coaches available.

Javy Pornstache
03-12-2007, 07:54 PM
If Tubby actually does stick (and this comment from Mitch doesn't necessarily END hopes that he will be gone, but it certainly does deflate them), then expect nothing more than such stalwarts as the aforementioned Rod Barnes and Sean Finney (who's already in a figurehead position in the UK office) or Buzz Petersen to be the "big changes".

Yes, the same Barnes whose Mississippi club started playing real basketball once he left town.

Yes, the same Petersen whose Tennessee club started playing real basketball once he left town.

They're TUBTASTIC!

Blimpie
03-12-2007, 07:55 PM
Please Barnfart, keep playing that fiddle while the great institution which used to be Kentucky Basketball continues to burn.I tried to warn you that Barnhardt wasn't doing anything with Tubby. You coulda saved yourself some aggravation....:D

WMR
03-12-2007, 08:47 PM
I tried to warn you that Barnhardt wasn't doing anything with Tubby. You coulda saved yourself some aggravation....:D

Can coups be staged within D-1 athletic departments? :angry: :bang: :angry: :bang:

durl
03-14-2007, 11:17 AM
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;_ylt=Ag5an_mUiu9oE78zQ2BDYS85nYcB?slug=dw-tubbysmith031307&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

A few good quotes that stood out to me:

"It seems no amount of Smith coaching acumen can overcome his program's chronic and repeated failures in recruiting, roster building and chemistry. For Smith, the challenge has never been coaching, but managing a basketball program that is far more cultural force than team."

"And so it is disingenuous to denigrate those same fans for unreasonable expectations, as seems to happen every time Smith’s precarious employment status is raised in the media. The fans’ emotional and financial commitments through the years are what made Kentucky. They have every right to expect a return on investment."

"UK shouldn’t have back-to-back 13- and 12- (eventually) loss seasons. It shouldn't have 10-loss seasons in five of the last eight years. It shouldn’t go since 2004 without signing a top 25 recruit. It shouldn’t have the mass transfers it has suffered through the past decade. It shouldn’t have two seasons – last year and 2001-02’s “Team Turmoil” – blown by chemistry issues stemming from recruiting mistakes"


Wetzel sums it up very well, in my opinion.

MrsHammer
03-14-2007, 12:23 PM
I agree....the writer of the Yahoo! article was right on. That is the best summary of the state of UK basketball that I have read in a long time.

:help: :help: :help:

FutureRedsGM
03-14-2007, 02:45 PM
Sent to me via e-mail this morning, as a UK fan it's painful, but the truth hurts!!!




ST LOUIS, MO - (Begin Bud Light theme music)

Announcer: Bud Light Presents, "Real Men of Genius"

Backup singer: Reaaaaal Men Of Genius

Announcer: Today we salute you, Mr. Delusional, Irrational UK Fan.

Backup singer: Mr. Delusional, Irrational UK Faaaaaan!

Announcer: Season after season, year after year, you try to justify your absurdly high preseason ranking.

Backup singer: Why aren't we number one?

Announcer: You scramble to make futile attempts at damage control
when the Cats lose to a grossly inferior opponent.

Backup singer: Neeeeeed to hire Billy Donovannnnn!

Announcer: Inevitably, you'll bring up the past, and boast of championships won 20 years before you were born.

Backup singer: Those were the daaaaaays!

Announcer: You will point out that you have more wins than any other program, as though that is relevant to the current season.

Backup singer: Been playing since the 1880ssssss!

Announcer: Go on, ignore that loss to your archrival in the regular season finale for the 6th consecutive time in a row, and continue to believe that you'll defeat your first round opponent with striking ease.

Backup singer: We'll still whoop that a-- and win by thirteeeeeeey!

Announcer: So crack open an ice cold Bud Light, oh Emperor of Excuses, and take comfort knowing that when you don't finish in the top 25, you'll be back to number three when the preseason polls come out next year.

Backup singer: Mr. Delusional, Irrational UK Fannnnnnn!

Anheiser-Busch, St Louis, Missouri

WMR
03-14-2007, 04:17 PM
That 'parody' (being kind) might have been accurate 3-4 years ago... I think just about everyone who loves UK is painfully aware of how 'non-elite' we have become. :(

TeamSelig
03-14-2007, 04:33 PM
Yeah, definitely.

No UK fan believes UK is an elite team anymore. I barely consider us a mediocre team right now.

macro
03-14-2007, 05:40 PM
Yep, and they weren't even ranked in the preseason polls this year, and probably won't be next year, either.

KronoRed
03-14-2007, 06:32 PM
I had a UK fan talk to me about the football team, the NCAA's never came up, to me that is the ultimate sign that there is trouble in basketball town.

WMR
03-14-2007, 06:36 PM
What's a UK bball fan going to say to a Florida fan?

What's a UK fan going to say to a Florida fan, PERIOD?? :(

macro
03-15-2007, 01:58 AM
What's a UK bball fan going to say to a Florida fan?

What's a UK fan going to say to a Florida fan, PERIOD?? :(

What has Florida accomplished? No...wait...never mind! :redface:

But hey, we had Adolph Rupp!!

Blimpie
03-15-2007, 07:31 PM
What's a UK bball fan going to say to a Florida fan?

What's a UK fan going to say to a Florida fan, PERIOD?? :(How about, "Good morning, Boss..."

:cool:

jmac
03-15-2007, 11:02 PM
What's a UK bball fan going to say to a Florida fan?

What's a UK fan going to say to a Florida fan, PERIOD?? :(

My goodness....Florida?....what are we gonna say to a Vandy fan ?
Oh I know..." hey you Vandy fan.....you're gonna have to pick it up a bit, Florida's beat us 6 in a row.
You guys only 4......:rolleyes: "

dabvu2498
03-17-2007, 07:24 PM
what are we gonna say to a Vandy fan ?


"Would you like fries with that?"

Chip R
03-19-2007, 08:20 PM
Being an impartial observer and occasional watcher of UK hoops, it seems to me that Tubby is a great coach. However, when watching them against the elite teams they just don't match up talent-wise. Tubby showed what he could do when he had great players in his first season. Yeah, they may have been Pitino's recruits but I have seen time and again ultra-talented not win the big one. Who was more talented than those Michigan teams back in the mid 90s? But not even great coaches can win without talent. Ultimately the recruiting problems are Tubby's responsibility. Tubby seems like a personable guy and you don't need to be Mr. Charisma to get elite athletes to go to your school. Roy Wiliams is a perfect example. UK has as much tradition as Carolina does. So it's not like when a recruit gets a letter from UK, he throws it in the trash. So the question is, why would a top high school player pick Carolina or UCLA or Arizona over UK? Those teams aren't cheating so you can't say they are playing dirty. Perhaps Tubby needs some - or an - assistant who can recruit like no one's business.

macro
03-20-2007, 12:49 AM
Perhaps Tubby needs some - or an - assistant who can recruit like no one's business.

That's exactly what he needs. Joe B. Hall had Leonard Hamilton. Denny Crum had Wade Houston. I'm sure some of you can think of others. These men were the secret of these programs' successes in the 70s and 80s.

cincy jacket
03-20-2007, 01:22 AM
Perhaps Tubby needs some - or an - assistant who can recruit like no one's business.

Even if they did get that though they would still be under Tubby's system. I don't think it's as much Tubby being a bad recruiter, by no stretch is he good either, but that kids just don't want to play in his slow it down, grind it out win 55-50 style. As good as Kevin Durrant is, there is no way Tubby lets him throw up the 30 shots a game he took if he went to UK, although he seems content to let Crawford hoist up about that many from 25 ft though for some reason:rolleyes: . Even if they did bring in a great recruiter I don't think it would do much to help bring in All-Americans.

Part of the problem might also be that Tubby can't recognize talent. He passed on Brewer and Lofton saying both were not SEC players and I think both were on first team all SEC, not sure about Brewer but I'm sure he at least made honorable mention or something. That has nothing to do with recruiting and getting them to commit, they both wanted to come to Lexington, Tubby was just not able to recognize the talent either had. Even if the recruiter sees the talent and can get the kid to want to come to UK, it is still up to Tubby to offer the scholarship and it is well documented that he is pretty hard headed and won't listen to anyone once he makes up his mind.

I know it has been mentioned before but Tubby would be perfect for somewhere like Michigan. Somewhere where making the tournament every year and winning a game or two in it is good enough. All the media pressure and fan discontent there is put squarely on the back of the football coach and Tubby would be able to go about his business fairly unnoticed.

TeamSelig
03-20-2007, 02:24 PM
To give him credit, Pitino turned down Lofton as well.

Most of all, I think UK just needs a change. We need to switch it up. Get new assistants, etc. and if that doesnt give us a good season next year, then get rid of him.

WVRed
03-20-2007, 08:54 PM
Even if they did get that though they would still be under Tubby's system. I don't think it's as much Tubby being a bad recruiter, by no stretch is he good either, but that kids just don't want to play in his slow it down, grind it out win 55-50 style. As good as Kevin Durrant is, there is no way Tubby lets him throw up the 30 shots a game he took if he went to UK, although he seems content to let Crawford hoist up about that many from 25 ft though for some reason:rolleyes: . Even if they did bring in a great recruiter I don't think it would do much to help bring in All-Americans.

Part of the problem might also be that Tubby can't recognize talent. He passed on Brewer and Lofton saying both were not SEC players and I think both were on first team all SEC, not sure about Brewer but I'm sure he at least made honorable mention or something. That has nothing to do with recruiting and getting them to commit, they both wanted to come to Lexington, Tubby was just not able to recognize the talent either had. Even if the recruiter sees the talent and can get the kid to want to come to UK, it is still up to Tubby to offer the scholarship and it is well documented that he is pretty hard headed and won't listen to anyone once he makes up his mind.

I know it has been mentioned before but Tubby would be perfect for somewhere like Michigan. Somewhere where making the tournament every year and winning a game or two in it is good enough. All the media pressure and fan discontent there is put squarely on the back of the football coach and Tubby would be able to go about his business fairly unnoticed.

The reasons you just listed for top recruits is the reason why Brandan Wright, who grew up a UK fan, instead chose the Tar Heels. Tyler Hansbrough as well. I have a feeling another big man Kentucky is recruiting will eventually be lost to Duke or Florida because of "Tubbyball".

I think people make a bigger deal about Lofton than what is really there. Nobody except maybe the rural population of Maysville, KY expected Lofton to come in for Tennessee and do what he did. At the time, we had Rajon Rondo, Joe Crawford, Patrick Sparks, and Ramel Bradley coming in, so Lofton would have never been able to play much to showcase his talent. However, hindsight is 20/20. Would I take Lofton now? You bet. Would I have taken him then with the players coming in? Probably not.

Also, UK has not had very good luck under Tubby with in-state players. JP Blevins and Ravi Moss were solid, but Josh Carrier, Adam Chiles, and Brandon Stockton were less than spectacular.

However, I think the comment that Tubby made regarding Corey Brewer not being an SEC capable player shows why I think Kentucky needs to make a coaching change. Tubbyball might work in the Big-10 or maybe the Big East, but not in the fast paced, fun and gun SEC. We can't run with the likes of Florida, and its ultimately becoming our downfall.

Don't get me wrong, Tubby Smith is from all accounts a great man, and believe it or not, I admire him for accepting blame to deflect from Sheray Thomas on the lane violation. Even though Thomas was most likely clearly in the wrong, Tubby put himself on the line for more scorn and ridicule by Kentucky fans to protect his players.

However, it is time for something to happen. If I am Lee Todd and Mitch Barnhardt, I am suggesting to Tubby to make radical changes to the coaching staff. Sean Finney needs to be the only holdover. If no improvement is made, then its time to "Drain the Tub".

As I said, Tubby is a great person, but I think that for everyone involved, it is time to move on. Tubby has endured merciless ridicule, most of it undeserved(Saul Smith). The pressure is mounting, and I don't think he will ever meet the expectations of competing with the likes of Duke, UNC, and Kansas. A school like Michigan where reaching the NCAA tournament is all that is expected is the best case scenario.

Regardless, I wish Tubby success, but I don't think it will be in the Commonwealth.

Blimpie
03-22-2007, 06:08 PM
Anything going on today with the program?

:D

WMR
03-22-2007, 06:10 PM
Hey Blimpie.... not to say I told you so.... BUT.... :laugh:

Blimpie
03-22-2007, 06:16 PM
Hey Blimpie.... not to say I told you so.... BUT.... :laugh:Uhm...actually I told YOU so. :cool: On this--or any other board--I have always maintained:

"Tubby Smith will only leave this program (under his current contract) if he decides to do so."

There was no way in hell that Barnhardt was canning him and eating that contract when he knew that Tubby could be easily pursuaded to leave by outside forces.

Now, granted, I had no idea his destination would be Minnesota. Michigan maybe, but not Minnesota.

WMR
03-22-2007, 06:18 PM
You don't think part of it spurring him on was an ultimatum that he must fire his assistants? I think that may have been part of the leverage used.

Sweetstop
03-22-2007, 07:00 PM
Hey, he just did what the fans wanted.

Should be a bunch of happy folks on this thread.

We won't see a person of his quality and integrity again, I'm sure.

WMR
03-22-2007, 08:30 PM
Yeah those 12 loss seasons will be really hard for the next coach to replicate. :rolleyes:

Sweetstop
03-22-2007, 08:34 PM
Hey, he just did what the fans wanted.

Should be a bunch of happy folks on this thread.



I'm talking about his leaving is what the fans wanted, in case I wasn't clear.

Matt700wlw
03-22-2007, 08:35 PM
He's never missed the NCAA tournament, he's got a national championship, and he always has one of the hardest schedules in the Country. He's usually ranked in the top 10-15.. Sure, he's had a couple down years, but running him out of town was a bit harsh. EVERY team has down years.

If only every team could be so forunate.

If he had a lighter schedule, with more wins, but maybe not any more success in the NCAA tournament, UK fans would be screaming they don't play anybody.

Hell, some of them COMPLAINED because their National Title wasn't with Pitino's kids, and not his!

They're a strange breed.

I can't blame Tubby for leaving.

Sweetstop
03-22-2007, 08:37 PM
amen, Matt.

Blimpie
03-22-2007, 08:38 PM
You don't think part of it spurring him on was an ultimatum that he must fire his assistants? I think that may have been part of the leverage used.He had that same "ultimatum" after he finished the prior season. Last time I checked, Barnhardt was the one who did the blinking....both times.

Javy Pornstache
03-22-2007, 08:39 PM
You don't think part of it spurring him on was an ultimatum that he must fire his assistants? I think that may have been part of the leverage used.

From what I heard, it was. He was told to fire the whole staff AND employ a new offensive and defensive strategy, and he could stay. He declined. His agent was in contact with Minnesota, the rest is history.

PS: I was also told Michigan "wasn't interested in him", and that's why Minnesota was approached.

Blimpie
03-22-2007, 08:39 PM
Hey, he just did what the fans wanted.

Should be a bunch of happy folks on this thread.

We won't see a person of his quality and integrity again, I'm sure.Contrary to reports, not every UK fan was hanging Tubby Smith in effigy.

Sweetstop
03-22-2007, 08:56 PM
Contrary to reports, not every UK fan was hanging Tubby Smith in effigy.

I know. I'm one of them, Blimpie.

cincinnati chili
03-22-2007, 09:56 PM
Sorry y'all - I didn't think I'd be fishing for you guys - just bustin' the chops. :D

If Tubby goes, they're will be plenty of people who would want that job. How about Huggy Bear in Lexington? They guy from Southern Illinois? How about a guy who runs a Princeton style offense? Calipari? Mike Brey from Notre Dame? What about a guy like Billy Gillespie? or even Rick Majerus?

Too many possibilities.

I actually think Majerus makes a fair amount of sense, assuming he's healthy enough to want the job. The biggest reason is because he's available. At the very least, he'd be a great stopgap for Kentucky until the long term solution is contractually available. He's won with less talent.

Now, if KY can get a guy like Calipari out of his contract, they'll do it. But I don't necessarily think it will be all that easy.

Those of you who say this isn't a desirable job are out of your skulls. With the exception of coaches who insist on not living in the middle of the country, KY is the type of job every coach wants. Men's college basketball is really the biggest thing in town, there's a tremendous tradition, and the program has $$$ to pay you.

Billy Donovan is not going to leave for KY, but most of the other guys mentioned would if they could.

Blimpie
03-22-2007, 10:26 PM
I know. I'm one of them, Blimpie.Me too. He'll land on his feet in Minnesota.

TeamSelig
03-23-2007, 02:09 AM
Yes we've been way too harsh on Tubby. WOW

Heath
03-23-2007, 08:00 AM
ESPN said there is a long list of potential replacements, but Mark Few of Gonzaga and Tom Crean of Marquette are on the top of the list, FWIW.

jmac
03-23-2007, 12:48 PM
ESPN said there is a long list of potential replacements, but Mark Few of Gonzaga and Tom Crean of Marquette are on the top of the list, FWIW.

Now that this job is open...you have to think bigger than this.
Crean hasnt done much without Mr. Wade.
Call the Donovan's etc of the world. Maybe they say no but call them nonetheless and work your way down.

macro
03-23-2007, 02:16 PM
Regarding Donovan, I listened to those who said he wouldn't leave Florida under any circumstances, and agreed with them. Now I'm reading others who say that the right amount of money will pursuade almost anyone to do almost anything, and I'm wondering if the right amount of cash would get him here? It's not like they'd be trying to lure him to a Division II school that has never won anything before.

durl
03-23-2007, 02:41 PM
I believe some UK fans were too tough on Tubby, but that doesn't change the fact that the program was declining under his leadership and that it was best for him to move on. It shouldn't have been personal although some fans made it so.

Joseph
03-23-2007, 02:54 PM
For all the talk going around, I think there are only 3 coaches in the country who are absolute "No's"

Coach K
Roy Williams
Bill Self.

Period. Sorry OSU fans. Sorry Texas fans. Sorry [insert school who thinks their situation is better than UK longterm] fans. Those three are at schools that they want to be at, and are at top 5 all time programs. Everyone else will at least consider it long and hard, Matta and Donovan included. They may not come, but they will take the call and talk dollars and such with families and agents.

UK is the Yankees, and the Lakers, and the Red Wings. It's a destination, dream job for 99.9% of the coaches in America.

No matter how badly Tubby was treated [and yes he was treated very badly by Big Blue nation]

jmac
03-23-2007, 03:11 PM
For all the talk going around, I think there are only 3 coaches in the country who are absolute "No's"

Coach K
Roy Williams
Bill Self.

Period. Sorry OSU fans. Sorry Texas fans. Sorry [insert school who thinks their situation is better than UK longterm] fans. Those three are at schools that they want to be at, and are at top 5 all time programs. Everyone else will at least consider it long and hard, Matta and Donovan included. They may not come, but they will take the call and talk dollars and such with families and agents.

UK is the Yankees, and the Lakers, and the Red Wings. It's a destination, dream job for 99.9% of the coaches in America.

No matter how badly Tubby was treated [and yes he was treated very badly by Big Blue nation]

This job is as you described.That's why I say start at the top and work your way down.Whoever is at the top..start there and dont "assume" they will say no.

Javy Pornstache
03-23-2007, 03:12 PM
The reports about Crean and Few and people like that being the favorites is pure mularkey. ESPN and most major media have been wrong on this story for weeks, and they continue to be wrong. Andy Katz for some reason is leading a charge that thinks Kentucky is going to HAVE to "settle" for their next coach.

There was no "sudden surprise" to this story - Minnesota's AD even slipped in this morning's press conference that this has been in the works for six weeks.

Billy Donovan's the favorite to get the job, btw.

Matt700wlw
03-23-2007, 03:23 PM
There is nothing to this....just throwing a name out there.

How about John Calipari?

TeamSelig
03-23-2007, 04:02 PM
Give me Phil Jackson ;)

jmac
03-23-2007, 04:15 PM
A rumour going around lexington is Mike D'Antoni has expressed interest to Mitch.
Dont know if true or not but him and Donovan would be top 2 choices.
I would love to see Mike bring his style to Kentucky !

Joseph
03-23-2007, 05:59 PM
A rumour going around lexington is Mike D'Antoni has expressed interest to Mitch.
Dont know if true or not but him and Donovan would be top 2 choices.
I would love to see Mike bring his style to Kentucky !

Very interesing, very interesting indeed.

jmac
03-23-2007, 06:46 PM
Very interesing, very interesting indeed.

Course if he came...reckon he could bring Nash,Marion and Stoudamire?
Looks like we might need them in 07.

WMR
03-23-2007, 06:57 PM
D'Antoni would be an incredible hire.

RedRoser
03-23-2007, 08:56 PM
D'Antoni would be an incredible hire.

Maybe so, but remember that he has a couple of months to finish out this NBA season, guiding a team that's at the top of its division. Would UK wait that long to have a coach in place? Highly doubtful, IMO.

---RedRoser

jmac
03-23-2007, 11:19 PM
Maybe so, but remember that he has a couple of months to finish out this NBA season, guiding a team that's at the top of its division. Would UK wait that long to have a coach in place? Highly doubtful, IMO.

---RedRoser

This is my thoughts as well.
I would have him my #1 choice but I cant really see him leaving for a couple of months which would be too long.
Thats why I am afraid we might get stuck with someone like the Marquette guy.

jmac
03-24-2007, 12:01 AM
Has anyone noticed the nice dance step Billy Donovan did ?
At the press conference, that is...

WMR
03-24-2007, 12:18 AM
Billy D has been extremely non-committal whenever asked about the UK job. He's definitely not dismissing it out of turn, FWIW.

jmac
03-24-2007, 01:13 AM
Billy D has been extremely non-committal whenever asked about the UK job. He's definitely not dismissing it out of turn, FWIW.

I respect that too.
I mean you have your Petrino's and Sabin's who come and say "no" one day then announce they are leaving the next.
Hey...Donovan just said stuff like it was someone else's call.
Will he come or not....stay tuned !
Donovan or D'Antoni make it happen Mitch.

RANDY IN INDY
03-24-2007, 10:03 AM
D'Antoni would be an incredible hire.


Marshall didn't think so a couple of years back when he wanted the job.:rolleyes:

Blimpie
03-24-2007, 11:37 AM
In a move which suprise nobody...


Morris follows Tubby out, signs with Knicks
By Jerry Tipton
Apparently, there was no off switch on the newfound hustle University of Kentucky center Randolph Morris showed this post-season.
Less than a week after saying he would explore his NBA options, Morris signed a two-year contract with the New York Knicks reportedly worth $1.6 million per season.

Morris signed only a day after Kentucky Director of Athletics Mitch Barnhart asked him to delay a decision on turning pro until UK hired a coach to replace Tubby Smith.

Although Morris led the Wildcats in scoring (16.1 ppg), rebounding (7.8 rpg) and blocks (70), ESPN college basketball analyst Jay Bilas saw the loss as more a temporary setback than a death blow to the UK program.

"As soon as Kentucky decides (on a coach), they'll be able to get good players," Bilas said. "This is part of a longer process. It's not just next season."

Bilas noted that coaching changes typically bring player defections. On Wednesday, Smith left UK after 10 seasons to become coach at the University of Minnesota.

Morris, one of three McDonald's All-Americans who joined UK in 2004, was in an unusual position of being an NBA free agent after his freshman season. He received that status because no team picked him in the 2005 NBA draft. NBA rules made him a free agent free to sign with any team at any time.

So Kentucky was fortunate that Morris did not leave abruptly in the way Christian Drejer bolted from Florida for a pro contract in Europe in 2003.

"Actually, it's better he did it now rather than two months from now," Bilas said. "When Kentucky gets a coach, he'll know exactly what they need."

Morris is expected to be in uniform as soon as Monday when the Knicks play Orlando.

"We said all along that in terms of building this team we would have to find unconventional ways to try to find talent and get out and beat the bushes," said Isiah Thomas, the Knicks' coach and director of basketball operations. "This is a very unique situation and I don't know if there has been something similar to this. The rules allowed it, and here we are."

When he entered the 2005 draft, Morris worked out for the Knicks. Speculation had him being taken by New York late in the first round.

Coincidentally, his contract equates to first-round money, on par with what the 26th pick received in last year's draft and what the 30th pick will receive this year, according to the NBA rookie salary scale.

"He'll benefit from us pounding it inside, and it will give us more options to go inside," Thomas said. "It's another guy we can add to our young core. We're very happy to have him. It's another 'big' and it's almost like another pick in this year's draft -- just a little early."

New York had another incentive to sign Morris. In a trade for big man Eddy Curry, the Knicks gave the Chicago Bulls the right to swap first-round picks in this year's draft. The Bulls are all but guaranteed to finish ahead of New York, and thus they would want to swap draft positions.

The Knicks are on the cusp of making the playoffs and would not want the embarrassment of giving Chicago a lottery pick.

WMR
03-24-2007, 07:24 PM
What sort of attitude do you think Noah has? I'll admit that he gets on my nerves too, but I've heard several announcers describe how he always addresses them as "sir" and from all accounts appears to be a class individual who just plays all out and wears his heart on his sleeve... I'd sure take his "attitude" over the nonchalance of a Randolph Morris.

Blimpie
03-24-2007, 08:09 PM
What sort of attitude do you think Noah has? I'll admit that he gets on my nerves too, but I've heard several announcers describe how he always addresses them as "sir" and from all accounts appears to be a class individual who just plays all out and wears his heart on his sleeve... I'd sure take his "attitude" over the nonchalance of a Randolph Morris.If Joakim Noah had played at the University of Kentucky, right now, they would be building a statue of him on the corner of High Street and Broadway.

durl
03-26-2007, 10:14 AM
What sort of attitude do you think Noah has? I'll admit that he gets on my nerves too, but I've heard several announcers describe how he always addresses them as "sir" and from all accounts appears to be a class individual who just plays all out and wears his heart on his sleeve... I'd sure take his "attitude" over the nonchalance of a Randolph Morris.

His "kittie kats" smack during a press conference for one. There's no need to mock another team to the press.

Swatting at a UK cheerleader after he slid to the floor during the game at Rupp this year. Simply childish.

There's "attitude" and then there's passion. The first is self-centered, the latter is team-centered. Personally, I don't want players with "tudes." I'm sick of that.

jmac
03-26-2007, 10:07 PM
Wow. That's kinda suprising about Heath. I thought he had bought himself another season by virtue of what he did this month.

Here is what irks me.....UK can have sub-par seasons, Tubby leaves and people like Vitale etc rip KY and their fans.
Yet Arkansas fires their coach after back to back 20 win seasons in a row, because their President wants to "get program back to where it once was" and ....that is fine !:rolleyes:

Joseph
03-26-2007, 10:19 PM
Simple Jmac, no one gives a flip about Arkansas basketball [or football or tennis or womens volleyball]

Blimpie
03-26-2007, 10:22 PM
Here is what irks me.....UK can have sub-par seasons, Tubby leaves and people like Vitale etc rip KY and their fans.
Yet Arkansas fires their coach after back to back 20 win seasons in a row, because their President wants to "get program back to where it once was" and ....that is fine !:rolleyes:Given the talent that he had during the last 2 years, I actually those that Stan Heath OVER-achieved at Arkansas.