PDA

View Full Version : Gwynn and Ripken this year's inductees



Danny Serafini
01-09-2007, 03:06 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070109&content_id=1775441&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

NEW YORK -- As anticipated, the dynamic duo of eight-time National League batting champion Tony Gwynn and Iron Man Cal Ripken Jr. earned election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame on Tuesday, both having attained nearly the highest percentage of votes in history.

On the ballot for the first time, the pair will be inducted into the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown on July 29. They will be joined by any candidates elected in the Hall of Fame Veterans Committee election, the results of which will be announced on Feb. 27.

Ripken garnered 98.53 percent of the vote, the third highest in balloting history done by veteran members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America, but the most for a position player. Ripken finished behind Tom Seaver (98.83 in 1992) and Nolan Ryan (98.79 in 1999). Gwynn's percentage of 97.6 percent, based on his 532 votes, ranks seventh all-time.

Mark McGwire, also a ballot newcomer, fell well short of election, his name appearing on less than a quarter of the record 545 ballots cast, two of which were left completely blank.

There is good news and bad news for Rich "Goose" Gossage, the reliever who is creeping ever so close to his day in the Cooperstown sun. The bad news is that this time Gossage came up 21 votes shy of the 75 percent needed to ascend to the Hall. The good news is that with a much thinner ballot next year, Gossage seems to be on the cusp.

On the ballot for the eighth year, the Goose came in at 71.2 percent, an increase from his 64.6 percent a year ago. In the history of the BBWAA Hall of Fame voting, no candidate has ever received at least 70 percent in an election without eventually gaining a place in Cooperstown. Most recently, Don Sutton (73.2 percent in 1997) and Gaylord Perry (72.1 percent) gained election the very next year.

McGwire received enough votes to carry him over until next year, but his 23.5 percent (128 votes) was a resounding rebuff from an electorate which suspected that the slugger, who finished his 16-year career with 583 homers, was part of Major League Baseball's so-called steroid era.

Of the 17 first-timers on the ballot, only McGwire and Harold Baines received enough votes to carry them over. Five years after he retires, a player has 15 years of eligibility on the ballot, but he must receive at least 5 percent of the vote each year to maintain that status.

With the addition of Gwynn and Ripken to the Hall, 280 members have now been elected, including 198 former Major League players -- 105 of them by BBWAA, whose voters must have at least 10 years of consecutive membership to receive a ballot.

Jim Rice and Andre Dawson, who like Gossage, received more than 60 percent of the vote last year, both lost a little ground this year.

From the outset, Gwynn and Ripken were dead-bang winners.

Aside from tying Honus Wagner for the most NL batting titles in history, Gwynn was a 15-time NL All-Star who had 3,141 hits, batted .338 and won five Gold Gloves as a right fielder in his 20 Major League seasons, all played with the San Diego Padres. His career-high .394 average during the strike-shortened 1994 season is the highest to lead either league in the past 65 years -- since Ted Williams became the last of the .400 hitters when he batted .406 to lead the American League in 1941.

Ripken played in a record 2,632 consecutive games from May 30, 1982, to Sept. 20, 1998, shattering the mark of 2,130 once held by Yankees first baseman Lou Gehrig and captivating the hearts of baseball fans everywhere. Ripken had 3,184 hits -- including 431 home runs -- batted .276, was twice an AL Most Valuable Player (1983 and 1991), was a 19-time AL All-Star, and won two Gold Gloves.

redsfan30
01-09-2007, 03:10 PM
Mark McGuire's 23.5% means he is a VERY long way away from making, it ever.

TRF
01-09-2007, 03:18 PM
And that's a shame. The writers sure as hell enjoyed living off both McGwire and Sosa that now tainted 1998 season. But no, of course the writers didn't know anything.

Hypocrites.

Gallen5862
01-09-2007, 03:26 PM
Congratulations Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr on making the Hall of fame. I am hopefuly Rich "Goose" Gossage makes it in next year. I am glad that Mark McGwire was kept out.

TRF
01-09-2007, 03:44 PM
Congratulations Tony Gwynn and Cal Ripken Jr on making the Hall of fame. I am hopefuly Rich "Goose" Gossage makes it in next year. I am glad that Mark McGwire was kept out.

Why. McGwire never tested positive for anything. His stats certainly merit induction. The only thing he has been "caught" with was Andro which was allowed under MLB rules at the time.

From all accounts he was a good person, and a good father. Did he juice? maybe. but there is no proof he did.

Meanwhile the men who sold papers writing about him, built him to be a near mythic figure in 1998 now have decided that he is not worthy of enshrinement. It's a double standard that IMO taints the Hall.

Danny Serafini
01-09-2007, 03:57 PM
Here are the full voting results
Green - elected
Red - removed from future ballots


Votes Pct.
Cal Ripken Jr. 537 98.5
Tony Gwynn 532 97.6
Rich Gossage 388 71.2
Jim Rice 346 63.5
Andre Dawson 309 56.7
Bert Blyleven 260 47.7
Lee Smith 217 39.8
Jack Morris 202 37.1
Mark McGwire 128 23.5
Tommy John 125 22.9
Steve Garvey 115 21.1
Dave Concepcion 74 13.6
Alan Trammell 73 13.4
Dave Parker 62 11.4
Don Mattingly 54 9.9
Dale Murphy 50 9.2
Harold Baines 29 5.3
Orel Hershiser 24 4.4
Albert Belle 19 3.5
Paul O'Neill 12 2.2
Bret Saberhagen 7 1.3
Jose Canseco 6 1.1
Tony Fernandez 4 0.7
Dante Bichette 3 0.6
Eric Davis 3 0.6
Bobby Bonilla 2 0.4
Ken Caminiti 2 0.4
Jay Buhner 1 0.2
Scott Brosius 0 0
Wally Joyner 0 0
Devon White 0 0
Bobby Witt 0 0

Gallen5862
01-09-2007, 03:57 PM
My thinking is that Goose Gossage deserves induction before McGwire. I am wanting to see more information before letting him in. He was not worthy of a first ballot induction. I am not saying keep McGwire out permantly. I am just wanting to take a wait and see approach with him.

Jpup
01-09-2007, 03:58 PM
Tony Gwynn, one of my favorite players ever and seemingly a very good guy. He was a great, great hitter. It was like watching an artist when he was at the plate. I could watch him hit all day.

Matt700wlw
01-09-2007, 04:01 PM
The headline should be about who got in.....not who didn't, media.

Congrats for the two deserving.

Roy Tucker
01-09-2007, 04:11 PM
Dante Bichette got the same number of votes as Eric Davis.

And someone voted for Jay Buhner.

Strikes Out Looking
01-09-2007, 04:33 PM
Dante Bichette got the same number of votes as Eric Davis.

And someone voted for Jay Buhner.

I believe it was Frank Costanza of the Queens NY Daily Costanzan. A few years ago he confronted George Steinbrenner and said: "What the hell did you trade Jay Buhner for?! He had 30 home runs, over 100 RBIs last year! He's got a rocket for an arm... You don't know what the hell you're doing!"

Yachtzee
01-09-2007, 05:18 PM
Dante Bichette got the same number of votes as Eric Davis.

And someone voted for Jay Buhner.

And Tony Fernandez got one more than Eric Davis. That's just sad.

M2
01-09-2007, 05:35 PM
Tell you what, give me a team with an OF of Rice, Dawson and Parker with an IF of Garvey, Trammell (at 2B), Concepcion and pretty much anyone who can stand up and play 3B. Put that together with a rotation of Blyleven, Morris, John and the Bulldog and have Gossage and Smith at the back of the pen and you'd have pretty much the best team that ever played baseball. The quality of the guys not making it to Cooperstown these days is staggering.

wheels
01-09-2007, 05:42 PM
It would have been interesting to see the numbers Albert Belle would have put up if it were not for that hip injury.

He and Eric Davis are the biggest "what could have beens" on that list in my opinion.

Yachtzee
01-09-2007, 05:43 PM
Tell you what, give me a team with an OF of Rice, Dawson and Parker with an IF of Garvey, Trammell (at 2B), Concepcion and pretty much anyone who can stand up and play SS. Put that together with a rotation of Blyleven, Morris, John and the Bulldog and have Gossage and Smith at the back of the pen and you'd have pretty much the best team that ever played baseball. The quality of the guys not making it to Cooperstown these days is staggering.

Amazing when you think of it, really. What with the '80s being the era of my baseball-loving youth (until girls got in the way in the late '80s-early '90s), I remember all of those guys being mentioned as future Hall-of-Famers. I think everyone listed above Paul O'Neill was considered great enough in their own time to be considered Hall worthy.

Cyclone792
01-09-2007, 06:09 PM
Tell you what, give me a team with an OF of Rice, Dawson and Parker with an IF of Garvey, Trammell (at 2B), Concepcion and pretty much anyone who can stand up and play 3B. Put that together with a rotation of Blyleven, Morris, John and the Bulldog and have Gossage and Smith at the back of the pen and you'd have pretty much the best team that ever played baseball. The quality of the guys not making it to Cooperstown these days is staggering.

That makes you think about how great of a team can be assembled if it was a cast of the best players not in Cooperstown. Here's a 25 man roster off the top of my head ...

C: Ted Simmons
1B: Dick Allen
2B: Bobby Grich
3B: Ron Santo
SS: Alan Trammell
LF: Sherry Magee
CF: Jimmy Wynn
RF: Dave Parker

IF: Will Clark
IF: Stan Hack
IF: Heinie Groh
IF: Davey Concepcion
OF: Dale Murphy
OF: Vada Pinson

SP: Bert Blyleven
SP: Tommy John
SP: Carl Mays
SP: Luis Tiant
SP: Billy Pierce

RP: Goose Gossage
RP: Dan Quisenberry
RP: Lee Smith
RP: Tom Henke
RP: Sparky Lyle
RP: Doug Jones

I'd have to say that team wouldn't be too bad ...

Reds4Life
01-09-2007, 07:10 PM
Tony Gwynn, one of my favorite players ever and seemingly a very good guy. He was a great, great hitter. It was like watching an artist when he was at the plate. I could watch him hit all day.

One of the best parts is the fact Gwynn wasn't really the stereotypical athlete. For most of his career was a heavy set guy who looked more like a football player than baseball, or some everyday guy you'd see on the street, but boy could he swing the bat with the best of em'.

MrCinatit
01-09-2007, 07:38 PM
Congrats to Tony and Cal - very well deserved.


Tell you what, give me a team with an OF of Rice, Dawson and Parker with an IF of Garvey, Trammell (at 2B), Concepcion and pretty much anyone who can stand up and play 3B. Put that together with a rotation of Blyleven, Morris, John and the Bulldog and have Gossage and Smith at the back of the pen and you'd have pretty much the best team that ever played baseball. The quality of the guys not making it to Cooperstown these days is staggering.

Oh so true. It is amazing to me that guys like that are so, so very far away from getting in - yet Chick Hafey (amongst others) is in.

Outshined_One
01-09-2007, 11:16 PM
What idiot voted for Jay Buhner?

RedsBaron
01-10-2007, 08:03 AM
That makes you think about how great of a team can be assembled if it was a cast of the best players not in Cooperstown. Here's a 25 man roster off the top of my head ...

C: Ted Simmons
1B: Dick Allen
2B: Bobby Grich
3B: Ron Santo
SS: Alan Trammell
LF: Sherry Magee
CF: Jimmy Wynn
RF: Dave Parker

IF: Will Clark
IF: Stan Hack
IF: Heinie Groh
IF: Davey Concepcion
OF: Dale Murphy
OF: Vada Pinson

SP: Bert Blyleven
SP: Tommy John
SP: Carl Mays
SP: Luis Tiant
SP: Billy Pierce

RP: Goose Gossage
RP: Dan Quisenberry
RP: Lee Smith
RP: Tom Henke
RP: Sparky Lyle
RP: Doug Jones

I'd have to say that team wouldn't be too bad ...

Joe Torre could be named as a catcher; he's pretty much in a dead heat with Simmons IMO.
Ken Boyer absolutely should be on the team. He's very close to Santo. I think that Santo and Boyer should both be in the HOF.
Jim Rice deserves a place as an outfielder, as does Andre Dawson. Minnie Minoso also deserves mention; but for segregation he probably would already be in the HOF.
I've got no arguments about the starting pitchers, but Jack Morris and Jim Kaat deserve mention as well.
I'd guess that Gossage will be inducted next year, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Rice and/or Dawson also make it in 2008.

registerthis
01-10-2007, 04:51 PM
Why. McGwire never tested positive for anything.

Oh, well then...sign me up.

TRF
01-10-2007, 05:14 PM
Oh, well then...sign me up.

Ya know, Frank Thomas is a big guy that seem very brittle all of a sudden. He's never tested positive for steroids, but he's big, and now he's injured a lot. So he must be juicing.

Same with Nomar. Just seems like his body is rejecting something somehow. Juicer.

I never bought that whole degenerative hip thing for Albert Belle.

and on and on and on. A lot of people didn't like his answer to Congress. I like his answer a helluva lot more than Palmeiro's.

See, it's simple. McGwire has never been proven to take anything. Palmeiro has. It was never proven that Ty Cobb bet on baseball, though it's generally believed he did. Did anyone in the 70's not take greenies?

If it is ever PROVEN McGwire took steroids, before he gets inducted, then fine keep him out. But to deny him enshrinement because you think he MIGHT have taken them means you enshrine no one. Because by that criteria, all are suspect.

registerthis
01-10-2007, 05:23 PM
A lot of people didn't like his answer to Congress. I like his answer a helluva lot more than Palmeiro's.

Evasive rather than lying?

Six to one...

RedsBaron
01-10-2007, 05:55 PM
If it is ever PROVEN McGwire took steroids, before he gets inducted, then fine keep him out. But to deny him enshrinement because you think he MIGHT have taken them means you enshrine no one. Because by that criteria, all are suspect.

There is no precedent for kicking someone out of the Hall of Fame once he was been enshrined. I have no problem at all with denying first year induction to any player reasonably suspected of using chmeicals to put up HOF quality numbers. Once a player is in the HOF, he's there forever.
Besides, there is no legal right to enshrinement in the Hall of Fame, it is not a question of due process, it isn't a criminal trial, and proof of steroid use is not required to be beyond a reasonable doubt.
The players and their union, abetted by gutless owners chasing the dollar, set up a system where, short of a confession, absolute proof of steroid use during the time McGwire played will be almost impossible. We can't travel back to 1998 to test McGwire, and there was no meaningful testing then.

TRF
01-10-2007, 05:59 PM
His explanation for that was IMO right on. If he denies it, he's a liar. If he admits it, he's hated. Who wants that?

His numbers cannot be denied.

TRF
01-10-2007, 06:16 PM
There is no precedent for kicking someone out of the Hall of Fame once he was been enshrined. I have no problem at all with denying first year induction to any player reasonably suspected of using chmeicals to put up HOF quality numbers. Once a player is in the HOF, he's there forever.
Besides, there is no legal right to enshrinement in the Hall of Fame, it is not a question of due process, it isn't a criminal trial, and proof of steroid use is not required to be beyond a reasonable doubt.
The players and their union, abetted by gutless owners chasing the dollar, set up a system where, short of a confession, absolute proof of steroid use during the time McGwire played will be almost impossible. We can't travel back to 1998 to test McGwire, and there was no meaningful testing then.

The problem is the writers are trying to hold players to a standard that is fluid from era to era. In fact there is no standard. Keep out the Black Sox, Ty Cobb on the first ballot. Rose out, Mantle in. Concepcion, no. Mazeroski, yes, albeit through the veterans committee. Blyleven, Nyet!

It's random. It's how the writers think the fans feel. I don't think McGwire/Sosa saved baseball in 1998, but they sure as hell helped. Their race energized a fan base that was discouraged and disillusioned about it's product. They brought a renewed interest that extended beyond Sportscenter highlights at midnight. People that weren't fans became fans.

Do I think McGwire took steroids? Yes, I think he did. But I don't know he did. I do know he hit nearly 600 HR's, went to 3 WS, appeared in the post season 6 different times. ROY 1987. Top 5 in HR's almost every year of his career.

A club that's standards for entrance sit in the hand of complete hypocrites like beat writers has a taint on it to begin with. The selection process is flawed. It's biased towards certain offensive numbers looked at by a herd of idiots.

registerthis
01-10-2007, 06:26 PM
His explanation for that was IMO right on.

He didn't offer an explanation--he neither denied or admitted using steroids, and only said that he'd be screwed regardless of what he said. Well, yeah...


His numbers cannot be denied.

Nope. But his enshrinement sure can.

mth123
01-10-2007, 10:42 PM
The problem is the writers are trying to hold players to a standard that is fluid from era to era. In fact there is no standard. Keep out the Black Sox, Ty Cobb on the first ballot. Rose out, Mantle in. Concepcion, no. Mazeroski, yes, albeit through the veterans committee. Blyleven, Nyet!

It's random. It's how the writers think the fans feel. I don't think McGwire/Sosa saved baseball in 1998, but they sure as hell helped. Their race energized a fan base that was discouraged and disillusioned about it's product. They brought a renewed interest that extended beyond Sportscenter highlights at midnight. People that weren't fans became fans.

Do I think McGwire took steroids? Yes, I think he did. But I don't know he did. I do know he hit nearly 600 HR's, went to 3 WS, appeared in the post season 6 different times. ROY 1987. Top 5 in HR's almost every year of his career.

A club that's standards for entrance sit in the hand of complete hypocrites like beat writers has a taint on it to begin with. The selection process is flawed. It's biased towards certain offensive numbers looked at by a herd of idiots.

Good post