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View Full Version : Geoff Jenkins or Kevin Mench



gobucks106
01-11-2007, 07:27 PM
I just read where Jenkins our Mench could be made available before opening day. Would either one be a nice fit in our outfield. Jenkins could add some pop and is a good defensive outfielder, more so than Mench. Mench is three years younger 29 vs 32 and does not strike out as much. Much smaller salary too. About 375K vs 7.7 mil. I personally like Jenkins. He could play right and add some pop, nice club house guy. Strikes out a lot, not what we need but we need more offense out of our outfield now that Kearns is gone,

oneupper
01-11-2007, 07:29 PM
We have 5 outfielders on the 25 man. Dunn, Griffey, Deno, Freel and Hamilton along with Conine who can stand out there also.

Don't see the need for these guys.

Tom Servo
01-11-2007, 07:32 PM
We have 5 outfielders on the 25 man. Dunn, Griffey, Deno, Freel and Hamilton along with Conine who can stand out there also.

Don't see the need for these guys.
There is a need for a true middle of the lineup hitter though, and Jenkins or Mench would fit that bill.

dunner13
01-11-2007, 07:47 PM
I like the idea of adding one of them, my only concern is I really think we need someone who can play center and push junior over to right. Cocco Crisp could be a nice fit, hes not the middle of the lineup hitter we need though. But if EE and Ross step up, we get 500 at bats from junior we could be ok with on offense, not great but good enough to win. Then if votto takes 1st over by the second half of the season and hits for some power we could be alright.

remdog
01-11-2007, 08:10 PM
I just read where Jenkins our Mench could be made available before opening day. Would either one be a nice fit in our outfield. Jenkins could add some pop and is a good defensive outfielder, more so than Mench. Mench is three years younger 29 vs 32 and does not strike out as much. Much smaller salary too. About 375K vs 7.7 mil. I personally like Jenkins. He could play right and add some pop, nice club house guy. Strikes out a lot, not what we need but we need more offense out of our outfield now that Kearns is gone,

ESPN lists Mench's '06 salary at $2.6M. I'm not sure what he's due in '07 but I would have greatly preferred Mench to Conine and his $2M salary.

Rem

RedsManRick
01-11-2007, 08:13 PM
Mench destroys lefties and would make an awesome platoon with Junior in RF.

Mench vL (3 years): .307/.379/.590
Griffey vR (3 years): .294/.370/.566

That right there is an all-star right fielder. But getting Junior to sit versus lefties could be tough. Of course, he could play LF and Dunn could play 1B vs lefties for all I care. The question is what is it going to take to get him (maybe they'll take Hopper :-P ). I would continue to advocate trading Freel for the best thing we can get for him.

Topcat
01-11-2007, 10:05 PM
I like Sir Large Head Mench and I would stick his butt in LF and Dunn at 1st. I would offer something along the lines of Countlangus(sp?) and some low a guy and see if that is enough. They are going to dump him thats a given so why not try to make an offer.

Newman4
01-12-2007, 04:05 PM
ESPN lists Mench's '06 salary at $2.6M. I'm not sure what he's due in '07 but I would have greatly preferred Mench to Conine and his $2M salary.

Rem

Mench should be arbitration eligible this season. He signed last year at 2.8 to avoid arbitration,

Kevin Mench of
1 year/$2.8M (2006), plus $50,000 in incentives

re-signed 2/06, avoided arbitration ($3.05M-$2.45M)
$50,000 in incentives ($25,000 each for 600 & 640 PAs)

1 year/$0.345M (2005), renewed 3/05

1 year/$0.345M (2004), re-signed 2/04
1 year/$0.3275M (2003) 1/03
agent: Dan Lozano (previously Ivan Schwartz)

ML service: 3.124

Doc. Scott
01-12-2007, 04:20 PM
Mench is a brutal defender and couldn't play right or center.

Jenkins might work, possibly, although I know he hasn't played a lot of right, either. I don't think he can play center.

As much as the lineup could use either of those bats, I don't know that acquiring either player would help resolve the outfield mess all that much. It might, more than anything else, encourage a Dunn trade or take PT away from some of the players that deserve a shot like Denorfia.

Ravenlord
01-12-2007, 05:11 PM
Mench is a brutal defender and couldn't play right or center.

Jenkins might work, possibly, although I know he hasn't played a lot of right, either. I don't think he can play center.

As much as the lineup could use either of those bats, I don't know that acquiring either player would help resolve the outfield mess all that much. It might, more than anything else, encourage a Dunn trade or take PT away from some of the players that deserve a shot like Denorfia.

Jenkins played right field almost exclusively the last two seasons.

RedsManRick
01-12-2007, 05:14 PM
Unfortunately Jeff also has a brutal split against lefties. The Brewers would be smart simply to platoon those two in LF, play Clark in CF, Hart in RF, and Hall at SS. They were idiotic to sign so many unnecessary IF. They are to IF as we are to relievers.

Doc. Scott
01-12-2007, 05:30 PM
Jenkins played right field almost exclusively the last two seasons.

Ah. Then acquiring him might not bung things up. But still a no on Mench.

Handofdeath
01-12-2007, 05:55 PM
Mench is a brutal defender and couldn't play right or center.

Sorry, but you are wrong about Mench playing RF. He's got 224 games in RF for his career. His fielding is .993. League average is .983. Range factor 1.84 and league average is 1.86. Pretty good arm. Sounds average to above average to me. Not to mention it's hard to get comfortable in the field when Buck is shuffling you between positions. Offensively you can expect a pretty Kearns-like performance as well with a few less walks but similar power.

Doc. Scott
01-12-2007, 06:04 PM
Sorry, but you are wrong about Mench playing RF. He's got 224 games in RF for his career. His fielding is .993. League average is .983. Range factor 1.84 and league average is 1.86. Pretty good arm. Sounds average to above average to me. Not to mention it's hard to get comfortable in the field when Buck is shuffling you between positions. Offensively you can expect a pretty Kearns-like performance as well with a few less walks but similar power.

Man, it's not my day, is it?

I really don't remember the guy playing RF, but that's what the numbers say.

So what would you give up, then, if you thought either of these players could be had?

Patrick Bateman
01-12-2007, 06:08 PM
Sorry, but you are wrong about Mench playing RF. He's got 224 games in RF for his career. His fielding is .993. League average is .983. Range factor 1.84 and league average is 1.86. Pretty good arm. Sounds average to above average to me. Not to mention it's hard to get comfortable in the field when Buck is shuffling you between positions. Offensively you can expect a pretty Kearns-like performance as well with a few less walks but similar power.

You may have picked out the worst 2 metrics to define fielding prowess. Fielding % is completely useless. It says nothing about range. Range factor is completely dependent on opportunity.

An easier, and more accurate and simple stat is zone rating. It's not perfect (and few fielding stats are), but it does a pretty good job of measuring how good a player is at turning balls in his area of play into outs. In that cateory he has a rating of .817, which is in the same territory as Wily Mo Pena (.819), and we all know how great of a fielder he is. Among guys with a decent sample size in RF, the only noticeably worse player is Bernie Williams (.797).

RANDY IN INDY
01-12-2007, 06:11 PM
Right now, I see no true value in either of those players. The Reds need pitching.

RedsManRick
01-12-2007, 06:30 PM
Right now, I see no true value in either of those players. The Reds need pitching.

In 2006, Reds pitching was better than Reds offense. Reds have added pitching and lost offense relative to last season. This team needs pitching, yes. But it needs offense even more.

I think Mench would make a perfect fit in a RF platoon with Griffey. I would trade away Cormier and an average prospect to make it happen -- I don't know what the market is for Mench.

Handofdeath
01-12-2007, 06:32 PM
You may have picked out the worst 2 metrics to define fielding prowess. Fielding % is completely useless. It says nothing about range. Range factor is completely dependent on opportunity.

An easier, and more accurate and simple stat is zone rating. It's not perfect (and few fielding stats are), but it does a pretty good job of measuring how good a player is at turning balls in his area of play into outs. In that cateory he has a rating of .817, which is in the same territory as Wily Mo Pena (.819), and we all know how great of a fielder he is. Among guys with a decent sample size in RF, the only noticeably worse player is Bernie Williams (.797).

Zone rating is flawed. What is a fly ball and what is a line drive can be a little iffy choice. Not to mention it doesn't take into account defensive shifts ala Adam Dunn/Ted Williams. I agree that the Reds need pitching more but I think the need is really there in RF. In fact, the Reds really need to start establishing who's going to be playing the OF for them after this season. I would probably throw a mid-level prospect offer out there to the Brewers. They are a little thin at C as well. I wouldn't trade Ross though. Maybe Valentin and a AA/A player would do it. I would then sign him to a 2 or 3 year deal. It wouldn't cost too much and it would solidify a question mark that's getting bigger every day.

Patrick Bateman
01-12-2007, 06:37 PM
Zone rating is flawed. What is a fly ball and what is a line drive can be a little iffy choice. Not to mention it doesn't take into account defensive shifts ala Adam Dunn/Ted Williams.

You are correct that it does have flaws. However, for a quick stat, it's usually pretty reliable and can at least ballpark a player's fielding skills. It's certainly better than fielding % and range factor which are as flawed as they get.


They are a little thin at C as well.

Damian Miller and Johnny Estrada? The Brewers have zero use for Valentin.

savafan
01-12-2007, 06:40 PM
Isn't Trot Nixon still out there?

missionhockey21
01-12-2007, 06:46 PM
Isn't Trot Nixon still out there?
Yes, but despite getting several gold stars with this organization for his defensive capabilities, his on base prowess is quite the turnoff.

Handofdeath
01-12-2007, 06:52 PM
You are correct that it does have flaws. However, for a quick stat, it's usually pretty reliable and can at least ballpark a player's fielding skills. It's certainly better than fielding % and range factor which are as flawed as they get.



Damian Miller and Johnny Estrada? The Brewers have zero use for Valentin.

Damian Miller is 37 years old so yes there is a need. Trot Nixon is still out there but you would get the same numbers from Mench for much less money.

Patrick Bateman
01-12-2007, 06:59 PM
Damian Miller is 37 years old so yes there is a need.

Damian Miller is still worthy of a roster spot. Unless they are willing to carry 3catchers this season just so that they can have a back-up (that's making some decent money already) for future seasons there is no need for them.


Trot Nixon is still out there but you would get the same numbers from Mench for much less money.

But the Reds would likely have to give up decent value in addition to the contract he receives. And unless you want to give up decent pitching, trading for Mench doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

RANDY IN INDY
01-12-2007, 07:04 PM
But the Reds would likely have to give up decent value in addition to the contract he receives. And unless you want to give up decent pitching, trading for Mench doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

Agree.

Chip R
01-12-2007, 10:59 PM
I'd sign both just so they can't hit against us.

Handofdeath
01-13-2007, 02:59 AM
Damian Miller is still worthy of a roster spot. Unless they are willing to carry 3catchers this season just so that they can have a back-up (that's making some decent money already) for future seasons there is no need for them.



But the Reds would likely have to give up decent value in addition to the contract he receives. And unless you want to give up decent pitching, trading for Mench doesn't seem like a great idea to me.



Damian Miller behind the plate defensively is pretty good but how long do you pay the guy over 3 mil a year now that they have Estrada? And how long do you play Russian Roulette with those 37 year old legs of his? Offensively he offers little. The only reason he hasn't retired yet is that he's never played over 120 games more than once and there's a reason for that. It's the same reason he's played for 5 teams in 10 seasons. He's a good defensive catcher who is now going to be making a lot of money to watch Johnny Estrada play.
It wouldn't necessarily be pitching the Brewers want although rumors are circulating about a deal involving Jon Lieber or Rodrogo Lopez. Their rotation is pretty much set and looks pretty decent. The Brewers are totally overstocked with OF'ers right now. They might not just trade one, they could trade two. This is still a "small market ballclub" too. They just might be willing to do a salary dump here. Mench for cash might even be a consideration. The Reds can get Mench, who is a good solid OF'er, and shouldn't gave to give up too much.

Patrick Bateman
01-13-2007, 02:25 PM
Damian Miller behind the plate defensively is pretty good but how long do you pay the guy over 3 mil a year now that they have Estrada?


I'd say about one year, the same 1 year he has left on his contract. After that, it should be very easy to find a capable back-up catcher for peanuts rather than trading a fairly valuable commodity to get one for future seasons.

Handofdeath
01-13-2007, 03:02 PM
I'd say about one year, the same 1 year he has left on his contract. After that, it should be very easy to find a capable back-up catcher for peanuts rather than trading a fairly valuable commodity to get one for future seasons.

But Miller is not a valuable commodity IMO. Certainly not at his age, salary, and skill level (i.e. limited offense).

Patrick Bateman
01-13-2007, 03:12 PM
But Miller is not a valuable commodity IMO. Certainly not at his age, salary, and skill level (i.e. limited offense).

I wasn't talking about Milller as a valuable commodity.

You said earlier that you would throw in Valenin in a trade for Mench (a failry valuable comodity), but they have no need for another catcher this season. They will likely only need a new back-up starting next season.

Handofdeath
01-13-2007, 04:12 PM
I wasn't talking about Milller as a valuable commodity.

You said earlier that you would throw in Valenin in a trade for Mench (a failry valuable comodity), but they have no need for another catcher this season. They will likely only need a new back-up starting next season.

Then I misunderstood and I apologize.

Patrick Bateman
01-13-2007, 04:38 PM
Don't worry about it.