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dfs
01-16-2007, 12:00 PM
Of course it's early.
Of course there will be injuries.

Ross/Hatteberg/Phillips/Gonzalez/Edwin/Dunn/Denorfia/Junior
Freel/Valentine/Castro/Moeller/(Conine/Hamilton)

Harang/Arroyo/Lohse/Milton/(Santos/Lizard/Belisle/Dumatrait/Livingston/Wilson)
Bray/Majewski/Stanton/Weathers/Coffey/Cormier/(Shackelford/Burton/AAA arms)

That puts Baily in AAA.

Whichever Rameriz/Belisle/Dumatrait are not starters are likely to be out of the organziation because they will be out of options. Santos is on a minor league contract. Livingston has an option year left. Paul Wilson is...well, you know.

The middle infield is so thin that I don't believe Ryan Freel is tradable at this point. Juan Castro is the only other guy on that roster that can cover the infield positions.

If they keep Hamilton, it looks like they have too many outfielders. If they have to keep Freel, the only tradable outfielder they have is probably Denorfia.

That's a lot of lefty relievers (Bray/Stanton/Cormier/Shackelford) There will either be a trade of Burton is going back.

Of course, there will be injuries.

Corrections welcome.

Joseph
01-16-2007, 12:10 PM
C Ross
1B Hatteberg
2B Phillips
3B Encarnacion
SS Gonzalez
OF Dunn
OF Griffey
OF Freel

C Valentin
OF Denorfia
OF Hamilton
IF Castro
IF Conine

SP Harang
SP Arroyo
SP Lohse
SP Milton
SP Ramirez

MR Belisle
MR Cormier
MR Bray
MR Majewski
MR Coffey
SU Weathers
CL Stanton

Thats my projected opening Day 25 Man.

MrCinatit
01-16-2007, 12:13 PM
Well, I was going to post my projection, but Joseph actually posted it for me. Player for player, you summed up my thoughts

Joseph
01-16-2007, 12:15 PM
I'm psychic, or something.

Danny Serafini
01-16-2007, 12:20 PM
As crazy as it sounds I think there are already about 23 locks to make the Opening Day roster, barring trades and injuries of course, which we know will happen. I've got 12 position players locked in:

Starters
---------
Ross
Hatteberg
Phillips
Encarnacion
Gonzalez
Dunn
Griffey
Freel

Bench
-------
Valentin
Conine
Castro
Denorfia

I've got 11 pitchers locked in:

Starters
---------
Arroyo
Harang
Lohse
Milton

Bullpen
---------
Belisle (his back won't hold up to allow him to be a starter)
Bray
Coffey
Cormier
Majewski
Stanton
Weathers

All that leaves open is one spot on the bench and one in the rotation. There is the off chance that they open with 11 pitchers until the 5th starter is need depending on how the schedule breaks, but that won't last long. So to me it comes down to either Krivsky's man love for 3rd catchers vs. keeping a Rule 5 gamble (I'm guessing Hamilton sticks) and whoever comes out of the pig pile for the 5th rotation spot. They might keep the 5th starter down for the first week or two and keep Moeller and Hamilton, that would give Hamilton time to get "injured" so they could stash him on a rehab for a little bit.

Edit: And after reading the ones above I see I'm not the only one thinking this way.

flyer85
01-16-2007, 12:26 PM
I don't think Hamilton is on the roster and I pray the 3 catcher thing was nothing more than a 1 year aberration.

TeamSelig
01-16-2007, 12:31 PM
EDIT - Looks like I forgot about Moeller. Was he signed to be AAA catcher or what, I think I missed that.

Catchers
- Ross, 60% of PT
- Valentin
1st Base
- Hatteberg
- Conine (vs LHP)(COF)
2nd Base
- Phillips
Shortstop
- Gonzalez
- Castro (INF backup, 2B/SS/3B)
Third Base
- EdE
Leftfield
- Dunn
Centerfield
- Griffey
- Denorfia, 25-30% PT
Rightfield
- Freel, maybe a couple games at 2B
- Hamilton, 25th man
(13 players)

Rotation:
1) Harang
2) Arroyo
3) Milton
4) Lohse
5) Ramirez (5th spot is up for grabs, but I think Elizardo has it... he had a couple gems last year and was doing fine until injuries hit, if he's healthy he has it IMO)

Bullpen
LHP Stanton (cl/set up)
RHP Weathers (cl/set up)
RHP Coffey (short/late)
LHP Bray (short/late)
RHP Majewski (middle)
LHP Cormier (middle)
RHP Belisle (long)
(12 pitchers)

I'm guessing that is what we'll see this year, pending any injuries or trades.

I'm starting to like our bullpen... we have a LHP/RHP combo for each type of reliever (closer, short, middle). If used right & put into the right situations I think we could have a pretty decent bullpen.

Kc61
01-16-2007, 12:31 PM
C Ross
1B Hatteberg
2B Phillips
3B Encarnacion
SS Gonzalez
OF Dunn
OF Griffey
OF Freel

C Valentin
OF Denorfia
OF Hamilton
IF Castro
IF Conine

SP Harang
SP Arroyo
SP Lohse
SP Milton
SP Ramirez

MR Belisle
MR Cormier
MR Bray
MR Majewski
MR Coffey
SU Weathers
CL Stanton

Thats my projected opening Day 25 Man.

Agree with the position players completely.

Agree with the pitchers except Belisle and Ramirez are not locks, in my view. Belisle is a Redszone favorite, but if he doesn't prove to be healthy this spring I think he is a candidate to be moved. EZ has to prove that he is ready, after his injury.

So I think there is competition for one or two slots on the staff. Wouldn't be shocked to see Santos and/or Salmon get a chance.

Jpup
01-16-2007, 01:12 PM
Santos is likely to be the 5th starter.

Z-Fly
01-16-2007, 01:17 PM
Santos is likely to be the 5th starter.

Just a hunch? Or do you have some reason behind that?

Jpup
01-16-2007, 01:22 PM
Just a hunch? Or do you have some reason behind that?

just a guess. :)

Z-Fly
01-16-2007, 01:25 PM
just a guess. :)

Fair enough. I was just wondering if you, maybe, knew something that I didn't. I like the Lizard because of the brief flash of being good, he showed at the begining of the season. But who knows :confused: ? They are probably about the same.

BRM
01-16-2007, 01:26 PM
and I pray the 3 catcher thing was nothing more than a 1 year aberration.

I wouldn't bet on it being an aberration.

Joseph
01-16-2007, 01:27 PM
Agree with the position players completely.

Agree with the pitchers except Belisle and Ramirez are not locks, in my view. Belisle is a Redszone favorite, but if he doesn't prove to be healthy this spring I think he is a candidate to be moved. EZ has to prove that he is ready, after his injury.

So I think there is competition for one or two slots on the staff. Wouldn't be shocked to see Santos and/or Salmon get a chance.

I agree they aren't locks. I've said elsewhere the 25th slot comes down to Hamilton vs the third catcher, so I don't see that as a lock either. Those are just my predictions on what the final outcome of the competition would be.

dunner13
01-16-2007, 01:32 PM
If its hamilton or the third catch I would have to think that hamilton is gone. Which is really pathetic because he has 100 times the ability that moller does. Hopefully Wayne either trades valentine or cuts moller. Signing moller to a major league contract was probably the dumbest thing done this offseason.

Z-Fly
01-16-2007, 01:34 PM
I don't think Hamilton is on the roster and I pray the 3 catcher thing was nothing more than a 1 year aberration.

I always forget. Did they sign Moeller to a Major league contract or a Minor league one? I think that will be a good telling point weather, he will be on the 25 man roster or not.

BRM
01-16-2007, 01:45 PM
I always forget. Did they sign Moeller to a Major league contract or a Minor league one? I think that will be a good telling point weather, he will be on the 25 man roster or not.

I'm pretty sure it was a major league contract. I'll have to try to find a link.

EDIT: MLB4U has it as a one year, $700K contract.

Z-Fly
01-16-2007, 01:53 PM
I'm pretty sure it was a major league contract. I'll have to try to find a link.

EDIT: MLB4U has it as a one year, $700K contract.

Here we come three catchers again!! :bang:. I honestly don't understand the point of this but... It could be worse (Royce Clayton, Tony Womak, ect.).

By the way I think this has to do more with Jerry than it does with wayne.

reds44
01-16-2007, 02:31 PM
C Ross
1B Hatteberg
2B Phillips
3B Encarnacion
SS Gonzalez
OF Dunn
OF Griffey
OF Freel

C Valentin
OF Denorfia
OF Hamilton
IF Castro
IF Conine

SP Harang
SP Arroyo
SP Lohse
SP Milton
SP Ramirez

MR Belisle
MR Cormier
MR Bray
MR Majewski
MR Coffey
SU Weathers
CL Stanton

Thats my projected opening Day 25 Man.
That would be mine also.

redsmetz
01-16-2007, 04:33 PM
If its hamilton or the third catch I would have to think that hamilton is gone. Which is really pathetic because he has 100 times the ability that moller does. Hopefully Wayne either trades valentine or cuts moller. Signing moller to a major league contract was probably the dumbest thing done this offseason.

I'm not sure what you're basing this on. I really do think that it's unlikely we'll do the three catch thing again. So I think it's very possible that either Valentin or Moeller will not be here. Given they signed Moeller this year, I'm guessing they're shopping Valentin. If it comes down to Hamilton or a third catcher, I'm guessing (and note, that's all it is) that Hamilton will stay.

Kc61
01-16-2007, 04:53 PM
If its hamilton or the third catch I would have to think that hamilton is gone. Which is really pathetic because he has 100 times the ability that moller does. Hopefully Wayne either trades valentine or cuts moller. Signing moller to a major league contract was probably the dumbest thing done this offseason.

Barring injury to anyone else, I think Hamilton will definitely get the nod over Moeller. Hamilton must be on the major league roster or he goes back to Tampa Bay. I think the Reds will commit to him for a year to see how he does. They will not send him back to Tampa to make room for a third catcher.

Now, if the Reds can swing a deal with TB to remove the Rule 5 status, then they probably would send Hamilton down to AA or AAA. But, if not, I would expect him on the team all year, with perhaps a DL stint and AAA rehab assignment.

flyer85
01-16-2007, 04:57 PM
o I think it's very possible that either Valentin or Moeller will not be here. Given they signed Moeller this year, I'm guessing they're shopping Valentin. Valentin is really an excellent backup catcher. Decent backstop with a lot of pop from the leftside. All Reds fans can hope is that Moeller was signed as an emergency plan in case of an injury because there is absolutely nothing in the minors.

TexasRed
01-16-2007, 05:02 PM
As for the three catcher thing: Didn't they re-up Valentine recently? I am in the camp of "completly stupid/why did ya do that?" on the Moeller signing. I am interested in how much (if any) money they saved by dumping Larue, picking up a mil or so of his contract w/KC, and then signing Moeller. Isn't it almost a wash $ wise?

I realize Larue was supposedly unhappy sharing catching duties last year, but isn't he pretty much far and away the best defensive option of the four?

BTW, I am trying to be the optomist on Ross... Hopefully, he is just realizing his potential with more regular playing time and will take off (as opposed to tanking) from here.

corkedbat
01-16-2007, 05:07 PM
All of those 25-man rosters have one thing in common. They depress me greatly - expecially the pitching. :cry:

mth123
01-16-2007, 09:25 PM
C Ross
1B Hatteberg
2B Phillips
3B Encarnacion
SS Gonzalez
OF Dunn
OF Griffey
OF Freel

C Valentin
OF Denorfia
OF Hamilton
IF Castro
IF Conine

SP Harang
SP Arroyo
SP Lohse
SP Milton
SP Ramirez

MR Belisle
MR Cormier
MR Bray
MR Majewski
MR Coffey
SU Weathers
CL Stanton

Thats my projected opening Day 25 Man.

Exactly as I see it (unfortunately).

MississippiRed
01-17-2007, 10:35 AM
Valentin is really an excellent backup catcher. Decent backstop with a lot of pop from the leftside. All Reds fans can hope is that Moeller was signed as an emergency plan in case of an injury because there is absolutely nothing in the minors.

I agree with your assessment, Flyer, but I don't know if Krivsky and Narron do. I believe they see Valentin as a LH Pinch-hitter first, so feel they need a third catcher. I expect Moeller will be on the opening day 25-man.