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View Full Version : The case against Aaron Harang



Chip R
01-17-2007, 12:59 AM
Don't get me wrong, I think Aaron is great and would love to see him signed to a multi-year deal. But let's play Devil's advocate and pretend that the Reds are not going to settle and will go before an arbitrator to have him choose whether Aaron will get $5.5M like he wants or $4.25M like the Reds want.

You are going to make the case for the Reds. It's a tough case to make but someone's got to do it. I'm sure there are rules in doing this so if someone would like to lay them out here, we can get started.

Your goal is to persuade an arbitrator - who may not have the keen baseball sense we do - to accept the Reds figure without making Aaron so POed that he will either let it bother him and/or he'll get out of town when it's free agent time for him.

Have fun. :)

Jpup
01-17-2007, 01:08 AM
without making Aaron so POed that he will either let it bother him and/or he'll get out of town when it's free agent time for him.

If you let it go that far, you may have already done that in which you wish not to do.

The_jbh
01-17-2007, 01:24 AM
Arbitration is always ugly because it makes the team sound as if it underappreciates the player. If we want to keep him we have to settle b4 that point just like JPup said...


but to answer ur question... hes been too good and consistent?

Underperforms at home relative to away is all i got i guess

camisadelgolf
01-17-2007, 01:58 AM
Harang looks like Shrek and Danny Devito had a kid, and therefore, he's not very good for all the P.R. stuff.

mth123
01-17-2007, 05:22 AM
I have been looking at the stats and honestly can not make a case. The Reds could make history by losing an arbitration case to a player and having the award still leave that player as the biggest bargain in baseball.

If this goes that far with no long term deal getting done, it would be a case of front office incompetence beyond description.

GAC
01-17-2007, 05:50 AM
I have been looking at the stats and honestly can not make a case. The Reds could make history by losing an arbitration case to a player and having the award still leave that player as the biggest bargain in baseball.

If this goes that far with no long term deal getting done, it would be a case of front office incompetence beyond description.

I thoroughly agree. They made short order of getting Dunn, a key player signed to a multi-year contract because they realized how much that void would hurt this team. And yet they are possibly not going to do the same for a player who mans a key position (pitching) that is in short demand around MLB, who put up the numbers then the Lilys and Marquis, is at a young age, and ain't gonna get any cheaper next year?

It's like playing craps. If they don't get Harang signed them Krivsky's stock will fall some with me because there is just no excuse not to.

RedFanAlways1966
01-17-2007, 07:33 AM
Your goal is to persuade an arbitrator - who may not have the keen baseball sense we do - to accept the Reds figure without making Aaron so POed that he will either let it bother him and/or he'll get out of town when it's free agent time for him.

Have fun. :)

DISCLAIMER: I am doing as Chip says in the above-paragraph. Don't hate me! :)

Aaron Harang had a quality start only 48.6% of the time he started a game. Guys who had a higher quality start ratio than Mr. Harang would include Bronson Arroyo, Eric Milton, Elizardo Ramirez and Matt Belisle. Yes, you were more likely to have a quality start when Milton or Ramirez took the mound than Aaron Harang.

Johnny Footstool
01-17-2007, 10:02 AM
Here's more for the (incredibly weak) case against Harang:

-Allowed 28 HR last season - tied for 8th most in the league

-Never won 20 games

-Double-digit losses each of the last two seasons

-Never posted an ERA under 3.76

GAC
01-17-2007, 10:43 AM
Here's more for the (incredibly weak) case against Harang:

-Allowed 28 HR last season - tied for 8th most in the league

-Never won 20 games

-Double-digit losses each of the last two seasons

-Never posted an ERA under 3.76

In accordance with this market, that's good for at least 4 yrs/ 40 Mil. :mooner:

Johnny Footstool
01-17-2007, 10:46 AM
In accordance with this market, that's good for at least 4 yrs/ 40 Mil. :mooner:

In free agency, it's worth more. His numbers are way better than Ted Lilly's.

Chip R
01-17-2007, 01:55 PM
Here's something I found in the game logs from last year: From 8-25 to the end of the season, the Reds were 3-5 in games which Harang started. Aaron was 3-3 with 2 no-decisions. One could say that a pitcher who wants $5.5M would have had a better record than that down the stretch when the Reds really needed him.

TRF
01-17-2007, 05:51 PM
Here's something I found in the game logs from last year: From 8-25 to the end of the season, the Reds were 3-5 in games which Harang started. Aaron was 3-3 with 2 no-decisions. One could say that a pitcher who wants $5.5M would have had a better record than that down the stretch when the Reds really needed him.

On 8/25, the Reds offense lost them that game. Morris nearly shut them out. Harang then went on to pitch 5 straight games where he gave up 4 Runs in each game. He should have been at least 4-2, and probably should have one a 5th game had the offense not been on life support.

And his agent will surely point that out.

Redsland
01-17-2007, 06:09 PM
The Reds finished 3.5 games back. Aaron lost 11 games. Therefore, he cost us the division.

Also, he's not scrappy.


:)

Chip R
01-17-2007, 07:14 PM
On 8/25, the Reds offense lost them that game. Morris nearly shut them out. Harang then went on to pitch 5 straight games where he gave up 4 Runs in each game. He should have been at least 4-2, and probably should have one a 5th game had the offense not been on life support.

And his agent will surely point that out.


Yeah, I realize that. But this is for the prosecution, not the defense. It's easy to spell out the reasons why Aaron should get what he wants. The challenge is to say why he shouldn't.

GAC
01-17-2007, 08:06 PM
Here's something I found in the game logs from last year: From 8-25 to the end of the season, the Reds were 3-5 in games which Harang started. Aaron was 3-3 with 2 no-decisions. One could say that a pitcher who wants $5.5M would have had a better record than that down the stretch when the Reds really needed him.

Then I'd say Aaron had an ERA of 3.8 during those 6 games. Sounds like my client is not the problem Wayne. :mooner:

Chip R
01-17-2007, 08:43 PM
Then I'd say Aaron had an ERA of 3.8 during those 6 games. Sounds like my client is not the problem Wayne. :mooner:



And perhaps, if he were a better pitcher, he would have had a lower ERA and the Reds could have won those games he lost or had no-decisions in. For $5.5M, he should have won some of those games.

vaticanplum
01-17-2007, 09:39 PM
Y'all are crazy.

TRF
01-18-2007, 09:49 AM
Yeah, I realize that. But this is for the prosecution, not the defense. It's easy to spell out the reasons why Aaron should get what he wants. The challenge is to say why he shouldn't.

Well, they should be good reasons then. I'd point out the consecutive starts allowing 4 runs during that stretch. I wouldn't even mention the game on 8-25.

RFS62
01-18-2007, 09:56 AM
Y'all are crazy.



Indeed.

That makes them management material in my world.