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cincy jacket
01-22-2007, 11:18 AM
According to Lance's blog the 9th Bengal was arrested last night. Johnathan Joseph was arrested for possession of marijuana. Why am I still shocked everytime I hear about this? It will be interesting to see how the new "Tough Marvin" handles this. Joseph is probablly one of the core 5 the Bengals need to build around.

Team Clark
01-22-2007, 11:23 AM
I want to laugh. I really do. The whole "I'm above the law, I need to portray my culture" BS really irks me. It's seems to be more prevalent in the NFL. The problem is the penalties are of little deterrence, IMO.

zombie-a-go-go
01-22-2007, 11:32 AM
But it's not 9 this year, see... when do we get to move back to 0 on the rolling calendar year?

Soon? Hopefully? because once we get into the double digits, I fear people might find something to talk about.

redsfan30
01-22-2007, 11:36 AM
Will it ever stop?

Danny Serafini
01-22-2007, 11:43 AM
http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5854

January 22, 2007

Posted: 11:20 a.m.

Bengals cornerback Johnathan Joseph was arrested in Boone County, Kentucky overnight on a marijuana possession charge. According to reports Joseph was a passenger in a car that was pulled over for weaving on the road. Police searched the vehicle and found marijuana.

Joseph becomes the ninth Bengals player to be arrested since December 15, 2005. According to league policy, as a first offense Joseph faces a fine but no suspension.

DoogMinAmo
01-22-2007, 12:30 PM
That sucks. It seems he is a victim of the company he keeps.

Heath
01-22-2007, 12:35 PM
But it's not 9 this year, see... when do we get to move back to 0 on the rolling calendar year?

Soon? Hopefully? because once we get into the double digits, I fear people might find something to talk about.

I thought it was a rolling 12-month time period.... :D

RedFanAlways1966
01-22-2007, 12:35 PM
So this is the 2nd Bengals player caught with mary-jane this year? I guess it goes to show you what a joke the NFL's drug testing really is.

A friend of a friend is the brother of a long time NFL QB vet. This vet liked to partake in mary-jane. This vet was informed by his team a good two months in advance when he would be tested. Plenty of time for the partaker to clean up the urine that would be taken. Just goes to show you how stupid or addicted those who fail the tests really are (Odell?). I think it is obvious that the testing is a joke. Look... two Bengals (Joseph & Henry) caught with mary-jane, but no one has failed an NFL administered test. Strange?

Cedric
01-22-2007, 12:57 PM
So this is the 2nd Bengals player caught with mary-jane this year? I guess it goes to show you what a joke the NFL's drug testing really is.

A friend of a friend is the brother of a long time NFL QB vet. This vet liked to partake in mary-jane. This vet was informed by his team a good two months in advance when he would be tested. Plenty of time for the partaker to clean up the urine that would be taken. Just goes to show you how stupid or addicted those who fail the tests really are (Odell?). I think it is obvious that the testing is a joke. Look... two Bengals (Joseph & Henry) caught with mary-jane, but no one has failed an NFL administered test. Strange?

I know for 100% fact that college athletes are told well in advance for steroid/recreational drug tests.
It's a sham.

TeamSelig
01-22-2007, 01:10 PM
Release, please.

We need a zero tolerance on criminal activity this year, even if it means dismantling the team.

Dom Heffner
01-22-2007, 01:14 PM
So funny we are riding these guys for smoking pot but then we are praising alcohol usage on another thread.

I know marijuana is illegal, but geesh, anybody who has smoked pot knows it's safer than alcohol in many ways.

TeamSelig
01-22-2007, 01:15 PM
Safer, maybe... but still illegal.

Danny Serafini
01-22-2007, 01:19 PM
Release, please.

We need a zero tolerance on criminal activity this year, even if it means dismantling the team.

So throw away last year's first round pick because he was in a car with a pot smoker? I'm all for tightening up the discipline, but let's not go off the deep end.

Dom Heffner
01-22-2007, 01:21 PM
Safer, maybe... but still illegal.

So he got arrested doing something we all have done and know is safer.

It's not like he raped or beat up somebody.

I wish it never would have happened and it will be interesting to see how Marvin handles it, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over a marijuana arrest.

Danny Serafini
01-22-2007, 01:36 PM
doing something we all have done and know is safer.

Might want to speak for yourself on that one.

Dom Heffner
01-22-2007, 01:38 PM
Might want to speak for yourself on that one.

I'm guessing a majority of people on here have smoked marijuana.

guttle11
01-22-2007, 01:45 PM
That's not the point, Dom. The point is he broke the law and was arrested.

Danny Serafini
01-22-2007, 02:22 PM
I'm guessing a majority of people on here have smoked marijuana.

I'd guess that you're wrong.

Ltlabner
01-22-2007, 02:25 PM
So he got arrested doing something we all have done and know is safer.

1) Not all of us have done it

2) I don't know that it's safer. Short term, maybe. Long term, doubt it. Kill your liver now or fry your brain later.

3) I do wonder how many people who are ok with smoking pot are the same people who are totally against smoking in resturants?

4) Severity of the infraction doesn't change the fact he ran afoul of the law. A reoccuring theme with the Bengals.

Cedric
01-22-2007, 03:01 PM
People should care more about the obvious HGH or steroid problem in the NFL. Pot doesn't concern me in the least.

Matt700wlw
01-22-2007, 03:09 PM
The first test to the "new" Marvin Lewis "hard ass"

kbrake
01-22-2007, 03:13 PM
1) We have all not done it

2) I don't know that it's safer. Short term, maybe. Long term, doubt it. Kill your liver now or fry your brain later.

3) I do wonder how many people who are ok with smoking pot are the same people who are totally against smoking in resturants?

4) Severity of the infraction doesn't change the fact he ran afoul of the law. A reoccuring theme with the Bengals.

1) True not all, but I think Dom is right when he says most.

2) Smoking pot is safer without doubt. People just simply do not die because they drove high or got too stoned one night.

3) I am ok with pot and people smoking in restaurants as long as the owner of said establishment is ok with it.

4) I agree he broke the law and considering the history of his team I see why it raises issues. However do you really want to hurt this teams future because of weed?

WMR
01-22-2007, 03:23 PM
The first test to the "new" Marvin Lewis "hard ass"

Every kid wants to test their parents limits. If it wasn't Jonathan Joseph, I think he'd be released. No way does that happen with Joseph.

WMR
01-22-2007, 03:23 PM
That sucks. It seems he is a victim of the company he keeps.

Birds of a feather toke together.

max venable
01-22-2007, 03:30 PM
I'm guessing a majority of people on here have smoked marijuana.

sounds like we need a poll in order to figure this one out.

Ltlabner
01-22-2007, 03:44 PM
1) True not all, but I think Dom is right when he says most.

Looks like 40% of those over 12. Certinally a bunch of people. But also not "all".

"Marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug. According to the 2005 National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH), an estimated 97.5 million Americans aged 12 or older tried marijuana at least once in their lifetimes, representing 40.1% of the U.S. population in that age group. The number of past year marijuana users in 2005 was approximately 25.4 million (10.4% of the population aged 12 or older) and the number of past month marijuana users was 14.6 million (6.0%). " Link (http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/marijuana/index.html)


2) Smoking pot is safer without doubt. People just simply do not die because they drove high or got too stoned one night.

Safer without a doubt? Again, I don't think a catagorical statement like that can be made....consider these.

" An estimated 38,000 high school seniors in the United States reported in 2001 that they crashed while driving under the influence of marijuana, and 46,000 reported that they crashed while impaired by alcohol. " Link (http://www.theantidrug.com/steerclear/factsheet.asp)

" DAWN also collects information on deaths involving drug abuse that were identified and submitted by 128 death investigation jurisdictions in 42 metropolitan areas across the United States. Cannabis ranked among the 10 most common drugs in 16 cities, including Detroit (74 deaths), Dallas (65), and Kansas City (63). "Link (http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/marijuana/index.html)


4) I agree he broke the law and considering the history of his team I see why it raises issues. However do you really want to hurt this teams future because of weed?

I don't want to hijack this thread into a pot debate. I agree that on the spectrum of bad things a person can do, being busted with some chronic rates pretty darn low on the list.

I just didn't agree with the premise that because pot was no big deal and was this thing that "everybody" did that what the player did was somehow justified for breaking the law.

Dom Heffner
01-22-2007, 03:54 PM
1) We have all not done it

2) I don't know that it's safer. Short term, maybe. Long term, doubt it. Kill your liver now or fry your brain later.

3) I do wonder how many people who are ok with smoking pot are the same people who are totally against smoking in resturants?

4) Severity of the infraction doesn't change the fact he ran afoul of the law. A reoccuring theme with the Bengals.


1)Post a poll on Ochre's board and we'll see how many people here have done it, assuming they tell the truth. I'll bet even GAC has. :)

2) I'll take the bet of alcohol versus pot anytime. I've lived with both alcoholics and potheads. At least the potheads don't get angry when you beat them at a game of pool.

3) These are two different issues. I'm fine with people smoking pot because it is a consensual issue with relatively low harm. I would not be fine with people smoking pot in a restaurant. How these issues are even remotely related I have no idea.

4) The severity does have something to do with it when people keep an arrest tally to say the Bengals are in need of discipline. Yes, this is arrest number 9. No, I'm not worried about this guy if all he is doing is smoking pot.

Would we be getting this lecture about severity not mattering if he was arrested for not paying parking tickets?

Dom Heffner
01-22-2007, 04:02 PM
Take the poll right here:

http://lastperson.suncircle.org/index.php?topic=627.0

Ltlabner
01-22-2007, 04:04 PM
1)Post a poll on Ochre's board and we'll see how many people here have done it, assuming they tell the truth. I'll bet even GAC has. :)

These are two different issues. I'm fine with people smoking pot because it is a consensual issue with relatively low harm. I would not be fine with people smoking pot in a restaurant. How these issues are even remotely related I have no idea.

Would we be getting this lecture about severity not mattering if he was arrested for not paying parking tickets?

Like I said in my last post. I know lots of people have smoked....I was replying to the idea that "everybody does it".

I was just thinking out loud with the smoking cigs or weed in resturants. Its funny if people would get hystarical about the slightest wiff of cigarette smoke and then turn around and fight to the death to be able to fire up a fatty in a resturant. My thought was unreated to the Bengals incident.

Lecture? Hummm. Sensitive are we? ;) Note to self: Get Dom a skull bong for Christmas 2007. Again, as I said in my last post, I was just refuting the "everybody does it, so it's all ok" line of reasoning you were using.

Chip R
01-22-2007, 04:13 PM
People should care more about the obvious HGH or steroid problem in the NFL. Pot doesn't concern me in the least.


You're right, they should. Whenever a baseball player tests positive for steroids, everybody pitches a fit but it's no big deal if a football player does.

It's not necessarily that he was smoking pot, but that he was breaking the law. He's the 9th member of the team to do so in a little over a year. That's pretty embarassing no matter how small the offense.

Cedric
01-22-2007, 04:15 PM
You're right, they should. Whenever a baseball player tests positive for steroids, everybody pitches a fit but it's no big deal if a football player does.

It's not necessarily that he was smoking pot, but that he was breaking the law. He's the 9th member of the team to do so in a little over a year. That's pretty embarassing no matter how small the offense.

Baseball fans and the media have higher standards for the sport. It's not just a hype sport.

I know that's general, but it's what I think.

TeamSelig
01-22-2007, 04:21 PM
So throw away last year's first round pick because he was in a car with a pot smoker? I'm all for tightening up the discipline, but let's not go off the deep end.

He was in the car with a pot smoker? Yeah, but marijuana was found in his bag, and the car smelled like it too. Sorry, but I'm tired of rooting for criminals.

dabvu2498
01-22-2007, 04:22 PM
I wonder how many Bengals got traffic tickets this year?

dabvu2498
01-22-2007, 04:23 PM
He was in the car with a pot smoker? Yeah, but marijuana was found in his bag, and the car smelled like it too. Sorry, but I'm tired of rooting for criminals.

Good luck finding a team to root for.

Dom Heffner
01-22-2007, 04:31 PM
I was replying to the idea that "everybody does it".

Well, I certainly didn't mean everybody. 40% is an interesting figure because I think if you just included this generation, that number would be higher.


Lecture? Hummm. Sensitive are we? Note to self: Get Dom a skull bong for Christmas 2007. Again, as I said in my last post, I was just refuting the "everybody does it, so it's all ok" line of reasoning you were using.


Yikes. I meant to delete the lecture out of there. You were by no means preaching there and I realized that when I typed it out. My apologies. :)

forfreelin04
01-22-2007, 04:57 PM
You think at some point, the Bengals players would start to make better choices. Regardless of what they have done or will do, it just boggles my mind how they continue to put themselves in bad positions.

Mo Money, Mo Problems

TeamSelig
01-22-2007, 05:07 PM
Good luck finding a team to root for.

Any other teams closing in on double digit arrests?

Ltlabner
01-22-2007, 05:26 PM
Yikes. I meant to delete the lecture out of there. You were by no means preaching there and I realized that when I typed it out. My apologies. :)

No prob man. I didn't take any offsense at all.

I pretty much agree with you that being nicked with some weed isn't a huge deal in the grandscheme of things other than it makes the Bengals look bad....again.

Reds Freak
01-22-2007, 05:27 PM
I believe the Super Bowl bound Bears and the 14-3 Chargers were the teams that were right behind the Bengals in arrests. It definately is a league wide problem.

I don't have a huge problem with him smoking pot. My guess is that the majority, or at least pretty close to it, of professional athletes smoke pot. The problem here lies with his decision making. If you're going to smoke pot, okay. But don't smoke pot then pull out your guns in a fight or drive on the wrong side of the road. I know a number of marijuana users and none of them have ever been arrested for possession. Is it that hard to not get arrested?

dsmith421
01-22-2007, 05:36 PM
RF is exactly right. These guys have got to understand that they are under the microscope when they are out at night: 1) as professional athletes, 2) as members of a team that has become notorious for off-the-field issues, and, in some cases, as young, wealthy, African American men.

My worry is not about these guys being "low character." It's about being dumb. When one of your teammates gets popped for DUI or possession why aren't you thinking "hmm, maybe I should hire someone to drive me around if I'm going to have a drink in public" or "maybe I should cool it with the dope unless I'm at home."

I also wonder if the good citizens in the Bengal clubhouse are applying some serious peer pressure to these kids to make them behave. And if they aren't, why.

Chip R
01-22-2007, 05:43 PM
I'm sure Marvin will "get tough" and suspend Joseph for the first half of the first pre-season game. That'll teach 'em.

traderumor
01-22-2007, 05:53 PM
With the penalty for possession so lenient, he probably would be in more trouble for shoplifting.

DoogMinAmo
01-22-2007, 06:03 PM
Birds of a feather toke together.

Innocent until proven guilty?

BoydsOfSummer
01-22-2007, 06:30 PM
Anybody ever pinched one with a Bengal? That might reach 40%! :D

Maybe that is the Browns problem; they aren't smoking enough hemp.

TeamCasey
01-22-2007, 06:47 PM
2) I'll take the bet of alcohol versus pot anytime. I've lived with both alcoholics and potheads. At least the potheads don't get angry when you beat them at a game of pool.

Yes, but they'll eat all your munchies. :)

WMR
01-22-2007, 07:20 PM
Innocent until proven guilty?

I think he should go with the Michael Irvin "I was just holding for a friend trying to stay clean" defense.

Yachtzee
01-22-2007, 07:39 PM
With the penalty for possession so lenient, he probably would be in more trouble for shoplifting.

Not too far fetched. Possession of small amounts of mj is only a minor misdemeanor, at least in Ohio, equivalent to a moving violation. It depends on how much he had though. Over a certain amount and it becomes a felony.

GAC
01-22-2007, 08:58 PM
So funny we are riding these guys for smoking pot but then we are praising alcohol usage on another thread.

I know marijuana is illegal, but geesh, anybody who has smoked pot knows it's safer than alcohol in many ways.

And I wouldn't expect a pothead to think any other way.... they're deeeeep thinkers. :mooner:

I think maryjuana, which involves smoking (inhaling) is a far worse personal health risk IMO.

But it is safer then alcohol when it comes to getting behind the wheel of a car. Especially when you're so stoned you get lost sitting in a parked car in the driveway. :lol:

Man could I relate some funny stories from 30 years ago. Would make a good thread.

Dom Heffner
01-22-2007, 09:40 PM
And I wouldn't expect a pothead to think any other way.... they're deeeeep thinkers.

I have no affiliation to the potheads of America lol...

I've only smoked just a few times myself. Spent lots of time with those who have, though. Lots.

CougarQuest
01-22-2007, 10:37 PM
The guy is stoned a lot obviously. Have you looked at his girlfriend?!?! And it would appear she can beat his aaa, behind in a fight.

CougarQuest
01-22-2007, 10:38 PM
Not too far fetched. Possession of small amounts of mj is only a minor misdemeanor, at least in Ohio, equivalent to a moving violation. It depends on how much he had though. Over a certain amount and it becomes a felony.

Or how it's packaged.

macro
01-23-2007, 01:01 AM
Sorry, but I'm tired of rooting for criminals.

:clap:

Same here, my man! A few years ago, Jerry Seinfeld said that "we're basically rooting for a uniform". I have rooted for the Bengals uniforms, all three of them, for the past 30+ years, but I am having a hard time rooting for the players wearing them recently.

Clean the house, whatever it takes. If it means a couple of seasons of 6-10 or 4-12, then so be it. This team was a laughingstock from 1991-02. Today, they're a laughingstock once again, just not for their pitiful W-L records. Instead, it's for their criminal records. The Bengals will NEVER win anything of significance with the players they currently have. The lack of off-field discipline will undermine any on-field efforts. We've seen it the past two seasons. Marvin either needs to get a grip or move on. There, I've said it.

Dom Heffner
01-23-2007, 08:34 AM
The Bengals will NEVER win anything of significance with the players they currently have.

They would have been in the playoffs had Shayne Graham made a stinking field goal, made at least 5 yards longer becuase his head coach doesn't know how to manage a clock.

That may not be significant, but I would have taken a trip to the playoffs.

And they wouldn't have lost had they gotten there due to their "character."

It would have been because of their crappy defense.

macro
01-23-2007, 09:43 AM
The effect of the "character" and "chemistry" will always be debated. And I agree that, in terms of X's and O's, it was the bad defense that cost the team the season. But I still contend that, even if they had slipped into the playoffs with a 9-7 record, they would have done so with a team that has 12-4 talent.

FWIW, I am not really up in arms over Joseph's act of getting caught with weed. I've never used it, but I also think that our society is a bit too stressed about it. The thing that bothers me is that whatever Marvin has said to his players about staying out of trouble is not getting through.

GAC
01-23-2007, 09:57 AM
Anybody ever pinched one with a Bengal? That might reach 40%! :D

Maybe that is the Browns problem; they aren't smoking enough hemp.

RB Green was a joker, a smoker, and a midnight toker. :mooner:

Dom Heffner
01-23-2007, 10:04 AM
Daugherty has an interesting take here =>

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070123/COL03/701230377

TeamSelig
01-23-2007, 12:51 PM
I have a friend that goes to NKU and he parties alot in the Cincy area... he said he knows a guy that buys weed off of Odell.... I don't believe him, but you never know sometimes

macro
01-23-2007, 01:34 PM
Daugherty has an interesting take here =>

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070123/COL03/701230377


What Lewis needs to do is develop a core of citizen-cops in the locker room, and have them police it. Does anyone really think Corey Dillon took Emily Post lessons upon signing with New England?
Nope. He went to a place with a carefully constructed core of Good People, who let him know what was OK and what wasn't. Because they were talented and had Super Bowl rings, Dillon listened. The Bengals have a few good men - Willie Anderson, Reggie Kelly, Carson Palmer, to name three - but they do not have that culture of business-like responsibility all good teams need.
Until they get it, this stuff will happen and the Bengals will keep underachieving. If you want to lean on Lewis, point to that.


I disagree with Daugherty that everyone just needs to get over it. After all, if it's so unreasonable to expect professional football players to behave within the constraints of the law, then why don't the other 31 teams have nine players arrested in nine months?

That being said, if Lewis is going to insist on bringing in players with issues, then he needs to heed Daughterty's advice and "carefully construct a core of Good People". Thing is, there's not enough room on an NFL roster for a carefully constructed core large enough to deal with the issues this team has.

Yachtzee
01-23-2007, 02:08 PM
I disagree with Daugherty that everyone just needs to get over it. After all, if it's so unreasonable to expect professional football players to behave within the constraints of the law, then why don't the other 31 teams have nine players arrested in nine months?

That being said, if Lewis is going to insist on bringing in players with issues, then he needs to heed Daughterty's advice and "carefully construct a core of Good People". Thing is, there's not enough room on an NFL roster for a carefully constructed core large enough to deal with the issues this team has.

I don't think the problems are limited to the Bengals. I'm sure many other teams in the NFL have just as many guys who smoke pot or drink and drive as the Bengals. It's just the Bengals have been the ones dumb enough to get caught.

Another thing I was thinking about was that maybe these guys are coming from places where they don't think they'll get pulled over. I myself have grown up in suburban cities notorious for passing out speeding tickets like halloween candy. When I drive, I am always keenly aware of police and speed traps because I've been conditioned to watch for them. But I know people who come from the big cities who just aren't that aware of the police when they're out driving and when they do see them, they don't think they'll get pulled over. So I've known a few guys who would keep things in their car they really shouldn't.

The city I currently live in makes a lot of their drug busts on routine traffic stops. I'd say they probably get more drug busts that way than the neighborhing college town and the large cities to the north and south. Why? Being a suburban community, the bulk of the work done by our officers involves traffic duty. They stop a ton of college kids going back and forth between the cities and the college town. College town and the cities don't have nearly as many officers monitoring traffic because they've got more pressing concerns (keeping the peace in College Town and fighting much more serious crime in the big cities). I've heard that the college kids seem honestly surprised when they get pulled over and don't realize just how long the smell of pot stays with you.

With that in mind, I don't think it's too far fetched to think that young professional athletes living in the Greater Cincinnati area have no clue about how things work in an area like Clermont County or Boone County and are just stupid when they choose to engage in illicit activity. Doesn't mean it's not going on elsewhere in the league. I'd be willing to there are quite a few NFL players on each team that like to partake of the "sticky icky."

My question is, if you feel the Bengals should take a hard line and make an example of a player who gets busted for pot or for drunken driving, does that mean the Reds should do the same thing when their players step out of line? I'm still amazed at the outrage towards Bengals players when Ryan Freel has essentially gotten a free pass for his transgressions. Granted, the Reds haven't had 9 players get busted. But still, Ryan Freel was downright plastered when he was busted for drunk driving. I never heard sanctimonious calls for his release after his arrest and what he did was arguable much more dangerous to society at large than what some of these Bengals players have been arrested for. Where do you draw the line? Do you have a no tolerance policy, or do you wait for the 5th guy who was unlucky enough to get caught?

macro
01-23-2007, 03:18 PM
I don't think the problems are limited to the Bengals. I'm sure many other teams in the NFL have just as many guys who smoke pot or drink and drive as the Bengals. It's just the Bengals have been the ones dumb enough to get caught.

Another thing I was thinking about was that maybe these guys are coming from places where they don't think they'll get pulled over... I know people who come from the big cities who just aren't that aware of the police when they're out driving and when they do see them, they don't think they'll get pulled over. So I've known a few guys who would keep things in their car they really shouldn't.

With that in mind, I don't think it's too far fetched to think that young professional athletes living in the Greater Cincinnati area have no clue about how things work in an area like Clermont County or Boone County and are just stupid when they choose to engage in illicit activity. Doesn't mean it's not going on elsewhere in the league. I'd be willing to there are quite a few NFL players on each team that like to partake of the "sticky icky."

I have a hard time believing that Bengals players are just more naive than the players on other teams, or that there aren't Clermont Counties and Boone Counties near every NFL city. I wouldn't think that that situation would be unique to this area.


My question is, if you feel the Bengals should take a hard line and make an example of a player who gets busted for pot or for drunken driving, does that mean the Reds should do the same thing when their players step out of line? I'm still amazed at the outrage towards Bengals players when Ryan Freel has essentially gotten a free pass for his transgressions. Granted, the Reds haven't had 9 players get busted. But still, Ryan Freel was downright plastered when he was busted for drunk driving. I never heard sanctimonious calls for his release after his arrest and what he did was arguable much more dangerous to society at large than what some of these Bengals players have been arrested for. Where do you draw the line? Do you have a no tolerance policy, or do you wait for the 5th guy who was unlucky enough to get caught?

I don't think we can look at some of these cases in isolation and say that they should be dismissed from the team. Joseph's is a case in point. But there have been cases in the past year (especially the multiple offenders) with players that should have been kicked off the team and not brought back. When the players see these cases get a slap on the wrist from the coach, they know how much they can get away with and remain on the team. That's what had led to the string of nine. If Lewis had dealt with those first, more serious, situations appropriately, I don't think the other eight would have followed, or at least not most of them. Now that the precedent is set for tolerance, it would be unfair to Joseph to punish him.

As for Freel, he should have been suspended from the team without pay for some number of games. (The "without pay" part may be forbidden in his contract, I don't know.)

Roy Tucker
01-23-2007, 03:25 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/nfl/longterm/2006/nfl_chart_12162006.html

Yachtzee
01-23-2007, 04:42 PM
I don't think we can look at some of these cases in isolation and say that they should be dismissed from the team. Joseph's is a case in point. But there have been cases in the past year (especially the multiple offenders) with players that should have been kicked off the team and not brought back. When the players see these cases get a slap on the wrist from the coach, they know how much they can get away with and remain on the team. That's what had led to the string of nine. If Lewis had dealt with those first, more serious, situations appropriately, I don't think the other eight would have followed, or at least not most of them. Now that the precedent is set for tolerance, it would be unfair to Joseph to punish him.

As for Freel, he should have been suspended from the team without pay for some number of games. (The "without pay" part may be forbidden in his contract, I don't know.)

If Joseph is working hard in practice, studying film and performing on the field, I'm willing to give him a pass on a first offense. Same with the other players. I think the problem is that many fans and the media just see "arrest" and throw all Bengals players into one bag, regardless of the offense. The real concern involves those who are repeat offenders, or whose arrests are merely a sign of a person who has no respect for the law, the team, or themselves. One player is obviously Odell Thurman and the Bengals and the League have taken measures to address his transgressions. Another problem child is Henry, who I can only hope we haven't heard much about lately because he's on a short leash and has made a serious effort to reconfigure his life. If Henry messes up again, I have no problem with the Bengals cutting ties with him, regardless of his talent.

As for the rest of the guys who have been arrested in the past year, I think the Bengals took a calculated risk in drafting a few guys with issues and they may or may not pan out. I hope that most of these arrests can just be chalked up to people making mistakes. On the one hand, I can agree somewhat with Daugherty on this issue because I feel that some of the arrests are more of a "when it rains, it pours" situation. On the other hand, I like hearing that Carson Palmer doesn't like it and wants change (http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5854). I think this is an issue best addressed by leadership on the team.

Chip R
01-23-2007, 07:09 PM
I have a hard time believing that Bengals players are just more naive than the players on other teams, or that there aren't Clermont Counties and Boone Counties near every NFL city. I wouldn't think that that situation would be unique to this area.



I don't think we can look at some of these cases in isolation and say that they should be dismissed from the team. Joseph's is a case in point. But there have been cases in the past year (especially the multiple offenders) with players that should have been kicked off the team and not brought back. When the players see these cases get a slap on the wrist from the coach, they know how much they can get away with and remain on the team. That's what had led to the string of nine. If Lewis had dealt with those first, more serious, situations appropriately, I don't think the other eight would have followed, or at least not most of them. Now that the precedent is set for tolerance, it would be unfair to Joseph to punish him.

As for Freel, he should have been suspended from the team without pay for some number of games. (The "without pay" part may be forbidden in his contract, I don't know.)


The difference comparing this incident to Ryan Freel's is that this was the 9th arrest of a Bengal in a little over a year. How many Reds have been arrested besides Freel? Only other one I can think of is Shackelford. If a Bengal had been arrested a year ago and none others since then, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. It'd be an isolated incident. It's not Joseph's fault 8 other teammates were arrested and what Joseph did was not a big deal. However, Joseph was the 9th Bengal arrested. Doesn't matter what for, he was arrested. And that could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And that is why a lot of people feel he should be made an example of. If 8 Reds had been arrested for one thing or another before Freel had, then you might have had people calling for his release.

It doesn't matter what kind of a guy Joseph is. This could be the first time he's ever touched weed. He could be a regular church goer and give 10% of his salary to charity and be the best player on the Bengals. But none of that matters when you are the 9th guy to get arrested. The NFL commissioner himself came in and talked to the Bengals and nothing has changed. Marvin himself said he was going to get tough with the next person who did this and nothing changed. If he doesn't get tough he's going to be a laughingstock with the players. He's going to look soft and the media will call him a liar. He's got bigger battles to fight than this but he's got to deal with it now.

Yachtzee
01-23-2007, 07:49 PM
The difference comparing this incident to Ryan Freel's is that this was the 9th arrest of a Bengal in a little over a year. How many Reds have been arrested besides Freel? Only other one I can think of is Shackelford. If a Bengal had been arrested a year ago and none others since then, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. It'd be an isolated incident. It's not Joseph's fault 8 other teammates were arrested and what Joseph did was not a big deal. However, Joseph was the 9th Bengal arrested. Doesn't matter what for, he was arrested. And that could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And that is why a lot of people feel he should be made an example of. If 8 Reds had been arrested for one thing or another before Freel had, then you might have had people calling for his release.

It doesn't matter what kind of a guy Joseph is. This could be the first time he's ever touched weed. He could be a regular church goer and give 10% of his salary to charity and be the best player on the Bengals. But none of that matters when you are the 9th guy to get arrested. The NFL commissioner himself came in and talked to the Bengals and nothing has changed. Marvin himself said he was going to get tough with the next person who did this and nothing changed. If he doesn't get tough he's going to be a laughingstock with the players. He's going to look soft and the media will call him a liar. He's got bigger battles to fight than this but he's got to deal with it now.

So hypothetically, if Freel, Shackelford, Brandon Phillips, Denorfia, and Encarnacion all run afoul of the law to varying degrees, then after the season is over Homer Bailey gets picked up for a minor misdemeanor, you're going to crack down by releasing Bailey. I don't think so. They can release Thurman because from what it sounds like, he's a lost cause. They could release Henry if he gets in trouble again because he's causing more of a distraction than he's worth (and he takes plays off). But Joseph had a very promising rookie season. You don't unload talent like that, especially when you'll probably need to unload James and O'Neal at some point. Can you suspend him? Sure. But who's going to remember or care next September when the suspension is effective? Really, at this point in the off-season, what can Marvin Lewis do? Take away his PS3?

Besides, I think when Marvin was talking about being more of a disciplinarian, I think he was specifically referring to issues that went on behind the scenes.

Chip R
01-24-2007, 01:00 PM
So hypothetically, if Freel, Shackelford, Brandon Phillips, Denorfia, and Encarnacion all run afoul of the law to varying degrees, then after the season is over Homer Bailey gets picked up for a minor misdemeanor, you're going to crack down by releasing Bailey. I don't think so. They can release Thurman because from what it sounds like, he's a lost cause. They could release Henry if he gets in trouble again because he's causing more of a distraction than he's worth (and he takes plays off). But Joseph had a very promising rookie season. You don't unload talent like that, especially when you'll probably need to unload James and O'Neal at some point. Can you suspend him? Sure. But who's going to remember or care next September when the suspension is effective? Really, at this point in the off-season, what can Marvin Lewis do? Take away his PS3?

Besides, I think when Marvin was talking about being more of a disciplinarian, I think he was specifically referring to issues that went on behind the scenes.


I'm not advocating a release but in my post I used the phrase "straw that broke the camel's back". That may apply here. Do I think it's a serious offense? No. But it came on top of 8 other arrests. Some of them were serious, others not so serious. But that last one has people throwing up their hands and saying enough is enough. I'm sure it would be easier for the Bengals if this was just some guy on the practice squad who got nailed. Then they could release the guy and people would know that Marvin wasn't just joking around when he said he was going to get tough. (and that is exactly how the media interpreted his statement.) But by doing nothing, the Bengals make it look like that players can do anything they want off the field and as long as they produce on the field, it's OK. I'm sure if all those Reds had been arrested over the span of a year and then Freel gets nailed, there would be calls to release him. But that was an isolated incident so while people weren't happy he did that, not many wanted to get rid of him.

Ltlabner
01-24-2007, 04:30 PM
What did you guys think about Carson laying the public smack-down on the shennangans yesterday?

Chip R
01-24-2007, 04:38 PM
What did you guys think about Carson laying the public smack-down on the shennangans yesterday?


If they don't listen to Marvin, why would they listen to Carson?

WMR
01-24-2007, 05:14 PM
If they don't listen to Marvin, why would they listen to Carson?

At least he's castigating them publicly. I respect that.

macro
01-25-2007, 12:13 AM
Based on the info provided in Roy's link, if I haven't made a mistake, here's the tally:


Bengals 10
Chargers 6
Bears 5
Jaguars 4
Titans 4
Steelers 2
10 tied at 1
16 tied at 0

26 of 32 NFL teams had zero or one total arrests in 2006, so the Bengals had as many arrests as those 26 teams combined.

:clap:

Danny Serafini
01-25-2007, 10:27 AM
From the Bengals blog from the Enquirer:

My Enquirer colleague Barrett J. Brunsman reports this morning from Batavia about the ongoing legal saga of talented but troubled Bengals wide receiver Chris Henry. The full story is on the Enquirer's Web site.

BATAVIA – Bengals wide receiver Chris Henry has avoided a possible drunken-driving conviction that could have resulted in an NFL suspension by pleading guilty to a lesser charge of reckless operation of a car in Clermont County.

While he was sentenced to the maximum 30 days in jail, that was suspended – meaning Henry can remain free as long as he adheres to conditions outlined Wednesday by

Judge Anthony W. Brock of Clermont County Municipal Court.

In addition to keeping a job, Henry must:
-- Report to a probation officer for two years.
-- Not consume any alcohol or illegal drugs.
-- Submit to random drug tests.
-- Agree to let the court review drug tests on Henry administered by the NFL.
Continue with substance-abuse and behavior-improvement counseling he began in May.
-- Stay out of bars.

A resident of Florence, Henry, 23, said he had just left Déjà Vu – a Union Township club where women are paid to dance nude – when stopped on Interstate 275 by an Ohio State Highway Patrol trooper at 1:18 a.m. June 3, according to a police report.

Trooper Michael T. Shimko arrested Henry on charges of operating a vehicle under the influence of alcohol and speeding. A trial had been scheduled for Feb. 15.

A pretrial conference is scheduled for today in Kenton County, where Henry has pleaded not guilty to charges or providing alcohol to three teenage girls in a Covington hotel room in April.

Danny Serafini
01-25-2007, 01:18 PM
Looks like Chris had a busy day:

This is from reporter William Croyle in our Northern Kentucky newsroom:

COVINGTON - Chris Henry is in Kenton County jail today and will be there until Saturday. The Bengals wide receiver pleaded guilty this morning in Kenton County District Court to permitting possession or consumption of alcoholic beverages, a class B misdemeanor. That was amended down from the three charges he was originally facing of unlawful transaction with a minor in the third degree, class A misdemeanors.

(Bengals coach Marvin Lewis released this statement today regarding Henry's sentence: "It's good that this case has been resolved. Now Chris must continue to strive to mature and grow both as a player and a person."

Henry's alcohol-related conviction is expected to bring a mandatory four-game suspension under the NFL's substance abuse policy. Henry's first offense under the policy was pleading guilty in Kenton District Court to marijuana possession, the first polic violation which brought mandatory counseling/treatement. A second violation causes a four-game suspension. The Enquirer is seeking clarification from the NFL office about whether the conviction constitutes a violation because alcohol was involved, even though Henry was not convicted for possibly consuming it.

The Bengals referred questions about a possible league-mandated suspension to NFL officials.)

Henry received the maximum sentence of 90 days in jail with 88 days suspended.

However, Judge Douglas Grothaus imposed conditions on Henry in order for those 88 days to remain suspended. Henry must:

-- Pay a $250 fine plus court costs.

-- Have no criminal activity for two years.

-- Not consume alcohol or drugs for two years.

-- Report to the Kentucky Alternative Program for drug and alcohol assessment.

-- Give two speeches – one at Two Rivers Middle School and one to Holmes High School athletes – on the dangers of drugs and alcohol and how they have negatively affected his career.

If Henry violates any of those orders, he will have to serve the 88 suspended days.

Henry was charged with giving alcohol to three underage females April 29 of last year.

Chip R
01-25-2007, 01:25 PM
Wasn't he on probation for what he did in Florida last year? Doesn't this conviction affect that?

dabvu2498
01-25-2007, 01:44 PM
Wasn't he on probation for what he did in Florida last year? Doesn't this conviction affect that?

He was not actually convicted/sentenced for the incident in Florida when the incident here occured, IIRC.

Chip R
01-25-2007, 06:01 PM
However, Judge Douglas Grothaus imposed conditions on Henry in order for those 88 days to remain suspended. Henry must:

-- Pay a $250 fine plus court costs.

-- Have no criminal activity for two years.

-- Not consume alcohol or drugs for two years.

-- Report to the Kentucky Alternative Program for drug and alcohol assessment.

-- Give two speeches one at Two Rivers Middle School and one to Holmes High School athletes on the dangers of drugs and alcohol and how they have negatively affected his career.

If Henry violates any of those orders, he will have to serve the 88 suspended days.


Even money says he's back in the slam for violating one or more of these conditions by the time 2 years is up.

Ltlabner
01-25-2007, 06:11 PM
Even money says he's back in the slam for violating one or more of these conditions by the time 2 years is up.

Heck, I'll put my money on before the next season starts.