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View Full Version : Our defense as a whole



cincrazy
01-25-2007, 12:51 PM
As many of you know, much has been made about our new and improved infield defense. And granted, it should be solid, if not spectacular, with Encarnacion hopefully improving at 3rd and Phillips and AGon forming one of the better up the middle duos in the division, if not the league.

However... what about our outfield defense? If Griffey and Dunn play a significant amount of games (very iffy in regards to Griffey, but still) our outfield defense will be well below average. Dunn will make the great play occasionally, and botch an easy one just as often, and while I love Griffey, he's got the range of a statue at this point.

The outfield defense as presently constituted is a problem, especially with a primarily fly ball pitching staff. I just worry that the great infield defense will be negated by our fly ball pitcher's, and an outfield defense that will at least start the year out well below average.

I wish there was an easy solution to this, but outside of trades or someone getting hurt, there's no other way around it. I don't see a trade happening at this point and you never know about injuries. Dunn is anchored in left, and so is Griffey in center (or right???) as long as he's healthy. Deno, Freel and other's (if they get enough playing time) will help when they're in there, but will that be enough?

Here's hoping that the ENTIRE defense is solid, and not just the infield. You can't put together one half of a painting and declare it a work of art when the other half of the canvas is completely blank...

pedro
01-25-2007, 01:09 PM
IF CF is manned by Freel / Deno and RF by KGJ, it probably won't be too bad.

Grounds_Crew
01-25-2007, 01:48 PM
IF CF is manned by Freel / Deno and RF by KGJ, it probably won't be too bad.

I hope Junior moves to right. Ryan HighlightFreel is a spectacular fielder...PERIOD!

http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/08/22/freel_zoom.jpg

And who could ever forget this catch that robbed Pujols last year. By far the best catch I have EVER seen.

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2006/08/08/QGLAOL2g.jpg

pedro
01-25-2007, 01:51 PM
and denorfia is even better, although not as dramatic.

Redsland
01-25-2007, 02:04 PM
If Griffey moves, then all of the corner positions are shakey, but we should be okay up the middle. Except at catcher.

Will M
01-25-2007, 02:05 PM
As many of you know, much has been made about our new and improved infield defense. And granted, it should be solid, if not spectacular, with Encarnacion hopefully improving at 3rd and Phillips and AGon forming one of the better up the middle duos in the division, if not the league.

However... what about our outfield defense? If Griffey and Dunn play a significant amount of games (very iffy in regards to Griffey, but still) our outfield defense will be well below average. Dunn will make the great play occasionally, and botch an easy one just as often, and while I love Griffey, he's got the range of a statue at this point.

The outfield defense as presently constituted is a problem, especially with a primarily fly ball pitching staff. I just worry that the great infield defense will be negated by our fly ball pitcher's, and an outfield defense that will at least start the year out well below average.

I wish there was an easy solution to this, but outside of trades or someone getting hurt, there's no other way around it. I don't see a trade happening at this point and you never know about injuries. Dunn is anchored in left, and so is Griffey in center (or right???) as long as he's healthy. Deno, Freel and other's (if they get enough playing time) will help when they're in there, but will that be enough?

Here's hoping that the ENTIRE defense is solid, and not just the infield. You can't put together one half of a painting and declare it a work of art when the other half of the canvas is completely blank...

What I see is Dunn in LF, Deno or Freel in CF and Griffey in RF.
Griffey won't play 162 games and was awful vs lefties last year.
I expect him to play 100-120 games.
As the roster stands now Deno or Freel plays RF the other 40-60 games.

This is about as good as it gets until Griffey retires after 2008.

SunDeck
01-25-2007, 02:55 PM
I thought the title of this thread was "Our defense has a hole".

Figured it was about Junior in CF..

toledodan
01-25-2007, 03:01 PM
This is about as good as it gets until Griffey retires after 2008.

i doubt griffey will retire after 2008.

bucksfan2
01-25-2007, 03:11 PM
Griffey doesn't have the range anymore but he will make the routine play. Freel has range, will make a great play, but struggles with the routine play, and seems to come way to close to too many collisions. I would rather have Grif in CF than freel. Deno is a better all around OF than Freel and I would be ok with him in CF. We are just going to have to live with Dunner in left. The infield D should be good and improve as EE improves. They guy can make the great play he just needs to focus more on the Routine play. You still have to throw out the wild card in Hamilton. Doesn't the guy have speed and an arm?

Will M
01-25-2007, 03:20 PM
i doubt griffey will retire after 2008.

IMO the 2006 version of Griffey:

weak in the field. even in RF in 2007 he will be below average. in CF in 2006 he was terrible.

swings for a HR every time up. look at his walk rate in 2006 compared to earlier in his career.

is basically a platoon player. i believe he hit under .200 vs lefties last year.

i can't imagine the 2009 version of Griffey being a guy we want starting for the Reds.

lollipopcurve
01-25-2007, 03:23 PM
swings for a HR every time up. look at his walk rate in 2006 compared to earlier in his career.

He made a significant adjustment in August. I think you'll see a more patient hitter in 07.

Eric_Davis
01-25-2007, 07:19 PM
It really comes down to Junior's ego, doesn't it? and that's a pretty huge mountain to climb.

KronoRed
01-25-2007, 07:26 PM
i can't imagine the 2009 version of Griffey being a guy we want starting for the Reds.

If JR doesn't retire after 08 I find it hard to believe the Reds will pick up the option, they will buy him out and let him go FA.

Eric_Davis
01-25-2007, 08:02 PM
In 2009, the REDS can be free of his handicap for $4M or be further handcuffed as Junior tries to struggle hitting .230 with no walks for $16M.

flyer85
01-25-2007, 08:20 PM
should it have been

"our defense as a hole"

toledodan
01-27-2007, 03:08 AM
IMO the 2006 version of Griffey:

weak in the field. even in RF in 2007 he will be below average. in CF in 2006 he was terrible.

swings for a HR every time up. look at his walk rate in 2006 compared to earlier in his career.

is basically a platoon player. i believe he hit under .200 vs lefties last year.

i can't imagine the 2009 version of Griffey being a guy we want starting for the Reds.


2006 numbers vs lefties:

147 abs
.204 average
9 homeruns
29 rbi

toledodan
01-27-2007, 03:16 AM
i also looked up his career numbers. outside of last season his OB and slugging aren't that far off of his career averages. if he has another season like 2006 then i think 2008 should be his last season in the bigs. to griffey's credit we can sleep each night believing he hasn't done steroids compared to other players.

also IMO it wouldn't hurt him to get more rest when we play lefties. he'll get plenty abs vs righties all season and can save his legs a couple games a week allowing freel to play.

sonny
01-27-2007, 04:07 AM
OT: Check out that chick in the first pic of Freel. You know the one I'm talking about

harangatang
01-27-2007, 04:28 AM
In 2009, the REDS can be free of his handicap for $4M or be further handcuffed as Junior tries to struggle hitting .230 with no walks for $16M.By 2009, 16 million for a bench player will be a bargain.