PDA

View Full Version : The Hardball Times on Saarloos



bianchiveloce
01-29-2007, 04:27 PM
Hey, folks, here is an artilce on Saarloos from the guys at The Hardball Times. The artilce is by Sal Baxamusa and I e-mailed asking him for permission to link it here. Also, I sent Sal the link for RedsZone and he responded, "By the way, the discussion at Redszone is very interesting. Some smart fans over there! Sal"


Enjoy.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-curious-case-of-captain-kirk/

Johnny Footstool
01-29-2007, 04:31 PM
Thanks for the link. We're also discussing this article on the ORG side.
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54133&page=12

jojo
01-29-2007, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the link. We're also discussing this article on the ORG side.
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54133&page=12

Yes and we scooped Sal! :mooner:

sloucho
01-30-2007, 12:24 AM
Hey, folks, here is an artilce on Saarloos from the guys at The Hardball Times. The artilce is by Sal Baxamusa and I e-mailed asking him for permission to link it here. Also, I sent Sal the link for RedsZone and he responded, "By the way, the discussion at Redszone is very interesting. Some smart fans over there! Sal"


Enjoy.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-curious-case-of-captain-kirk/

Nice article.

From what we see from his pitch count, it looks like he is the type of pitcher that gets ahead in the count (61% first pitch strikes), and gets the hitter to go after the sinker, and gets the groundball. If he keeps the ball down in GABP, I think he can be successful. Since he seems to be a "control reliant" pitcher, he is going to have really bad days when he gets the ball up, and probably really good ones where he is a mystery with the sinker, and we will just have to ride the wave. I hope the projections of just under 5 aren't that accurate. I think with probably one of the better defensive infields in the NL, he can do much better.

Nice read though.

pedro
01-30-2007, 12:49 AM
I think Sarloos at least has some intrigue about him. Sure he's struggled in the majors, and doesn't have huge stuff on the surface, but what he does have is some major success in college and the low minors, so maybe he is that guy who can surprise us, I don't know. Either way, IMO, having him is a lot more interesting than not, regardless of the perceived upside.

RedEye
01-31-2007, 04:02 PM
Ah yes... a 'grounder-inducing junkballer'... just what we need. At least he's not a 'flyball-inducing junkballer' (Milton?)

Caveat Emperor
01-31-2007, 04:26 PM
Ah yes... a 'grounder-inducing junkballer'... just what we need. At least he's not a 'flyball-inducing junkballer' (Milton?)

He's a grounder-inducing junkballer, but he's not your run-of-the-mill junkballer.

Most guys you associate into this category are guys that are A.) Past their prime, B.) Coming off (or have had at some point) major reconstructive surgery or a medical condition of some sort, C.) Middling talent that has never wowed anyone at any level, or D.) Some combination of all three factors.

Recent "junkballers" in the Reds rotation -- guys like Milton and Wilson especially -- have fallen into one of the above categories. Saarloos doesn't meet any of those criteria. He's succeeded in both college and the minors, never (as best as I can tell) had to go under the knife, and is coming into what should be his age-prime years.

Those factors give me a small amount of hope that he might flourish under different instruction than he has been getting in Oakland, a different pitching environment, a different league, etc. It's a small hope, but it's certainly a better hope than praying Eric Milton's knees spontaneously grow back.

Redsland
01-31-2007, 04:35 PM
Those factors give me a small amount of hope that he might flourish under different instruction than he has been getting in Oakland, a different pitching environment, a different league, etc.
The Dick Pole Factor, eh?

:beerme:

Puffy
01-31-2007, 04:43 PM
The Dick Pole Factor, eh?


I got that in college. I used Topical Cream to get rid of it.

minus5
01-31-2007, 04:49 PM
The Dick Pole Factor, eh?

:beerme:



I think I saw that movie.

RedsManRick
01-31-2007, 04:49 PM
Not saying they're the same, but at a quick glance, Saarloos' numbers look a lot like what Arroyo did in Boston in 2004 -- except he keeps the ball on the ground more. When Bronson misses bats, he's more effective, but he's been marginally effective even when he's not missing bats. We certainly he's not blowing fastballs past people.

Johnny Footstool
01-31-2007, 05:09 PM
Not saying they're the same, but at a quick glance, Saarloos' numbers look a lot like what Arroyo did in Boston in 2004 -- except he keeps the ball on the ground more. When Bronson misses bats, he's more effective, but he's been marginally effective even when he's not missing bats. We certainly he's not blowing fastballs past people.

I assume you meant Arroyo's 2005 season, because Arroyo's 2004 was worlds better than anything Saarloos has done in the majors.

And even Arroyo's 2005 would represent a huge improvement for Saarloos in terms of K/BB and K/9.

Mario-Rijo
01-31-2007, 05:15 PM
Guys like this can do better than get by, look at Jamie Moyer in his latter years. His stuff was more poop than stuff, but he understood the art of pitching and got solid results more often than not. And he was further up the rotation than Saarloos.

I wonder if he could develop a solid change-up which could help him alot with K's when he needs them. My guess is he doesn't already have one or his K's would be better already. If he can develop that to be 6-8 miles off of his "Medium-Fast Ball" than he can have very good success as a 4th or 5th starter.

Other than that he is more a fill in starter/ long reliever type at best.

Heath
01-31-2007, 05:17 PM
Hey, folks, here is an artilce on Saarloos from the guys at The Hardball Times. The artilce is by Sal Baxamusa and I e-mailed asking him for permission to link it here. Also, I sent Sal the link for RedsZone and he responded, "By the way, the discussion at Redszone is very interesting. Some smart fans over there! Sal"


Enjoy.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/the-curious-case-of-captain-kirk/

Sal must not get out much.

Hi Sal! :wave:

Johnny Footstool
01-31-2007, 05:20 PM
Sal must not get out much.

Hi Sal! :wave:

Maybe we drew his interest with our 3000-page threads about "The Trade".

Either that, or the 275 different trade proposals we come up each week with that involve Adam Dunn.

Heath
01-31-2007, 05:30 PM
Maybe we drew his interest with our 3000-page threads about "The Trade".

Either that, or the 275 different trade proposals we come up each week with that involve Adam Dunn.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he missed the "about 10 of you" thread, so that HAS to be it.

salb918
02-01-2007, 01:43 AM
Hi RedsZone!

I don't even want to know what the "about 10 of you" thread is. Note also that I said, "Some smart fans." I didn't specify which ones :)

Also, I don't get out much.

Ravenlord
02-01-2007, 02:37 AM
just about any other pitcher with Saarloos' periphrials i'd be very paranoid of. however, with everything i know about Saarloos himself, i very much like what he offers the Reds.

jojo
02-01-2007, 07:29 AM
just about any other pitcher with Saarloos' periphrials i'd be very paranoid of. however, with everything i know about Saarloos himself, i very much like what he offers the Reds.


Yes..... the intangibles... heart of a warrior is great and all but I much prefer devoting payroll to grittiness or maybe defensive IQ. In fact, given that grittiness in pitchers was extremely overvalued this off season, maybe defensive IQ is the way to go this year....after all, isn't 80% of grittiness in pitchers really just defensive IQ?


:beerme:

Johnny Footstool
02-01-2007, 09:41 AM
Hi RedsZone!

I don't even want to know what the "about 10 of you" thread is. Note also that I said, "Some smart fans." I didn't specify which ones :)

Also, I don't get out much.

You'll fit in nicely here. :beerme:

bianchiveloce
02-01-2007, 12:14 PM
Hi RedsZone!

I don't even want to know what the "about 10 of you" thread is. Note also that I said, "Some smart fans." I didn't specify which ones :)

Also, I don't get out much.

Good to see you over here, Sal!

Ravenlord
02-01-2007, 01:56 PM
Yes..... the intangibles... heart of a warrior is great and all but I much prefer devoting payroll to grittiness or maybe defensive IQ. In fact, given that grittiness in pitchers was extremely overvalued this off season, maybe defensive IQ is the way to go this year....after all, isn't 80% of grittiness in pitchers really just defensive IQ?


:beerme:

99% of intangibles is crap. the only times they mean anything is if you have more than one guy wiht Bonds' personality,or the difference between a Paul Wilson and Kyle Lohse or a Billy Beane and a Lenny Dykstra.

i'm referring more to the fact that Saarloos has a suprisingly low IsoP (150) for a guy with his relativly high HR/9, and that his periphrials, ALL of them say his ERA should be closer to 6 than it is 4. as well, unlike most other finesse pitchers, he can actually K guys, but runs his pitch count up too quickly when he tries to.