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View Full Version : Reds Prospect rundown, projected 2010 lineup from BA



flynn78
01-29-2007, 10:27 PM
Per Lance McCallister's blog:

I think that it is an interesting discussion. I would love to look in the future and see our lineup in 2010. Let the craziness about Dunner still being in LF begin!

Baseball America on the Reds
TOP TEN PROSPECTS
1. Homer Bailey, rhp
2. Jay Bruce, of
3. Joey Votto, 1b
4. Johnny Cueto, rhp
5. Drew Stubbs, of
6. Travis Woods, lhp
7. Sean Watson, rhp
8. Milton Loo, ss
9. Paul Janish, ss
10. Chris Valaika, ss

BESTTOOLS
Best Hitter for Average Jay Bruce
Best Power Hitter Joey Votto
Best Strike-Zone Discipline Joey Votto
Fastest Baserunner Chris Dickerson
Best Athlete Chris Dickerson
Best Fastball Homer Bailey
Best Curveball Homer Bailey
Best Slider Johnny Cueto
Best Changeup Travis Wood
Best Control Johnny Cueto
Best Defensive Catcher Miguel Perez
Best Defensive Infielder Paul Janish
Best Infield Arm Juan Francisco
Best Defensive Outfielder Chris Dickerson
Best Outfield Arm Jerry Gil

PROJECTED 2010 LINEUP
Catcher Miguel Perez
First Base Joey Votto
Second Base Brandon Phillips
Third Base Edwin Encarnacion
Shortstop Milton Loo
Left Field Adam Dunn
Center Field Drew Stubbs
Right Field Jay Bruce
No. 1 Starter Homer Bailey
No. 2 Starter Aaron Harang
No. 3 Starter Bronson Arroyo
No. 4 Starter Johnny Cueto
No. 5 Starter Travis Wood
Closer Sean Watson

Tornon
01-29-2007, 10:53 PM
If everything works out like that, I would love to have that team..

Marge'sMullet
01-30-2007, 04:54 AM
I'm excited to see what Bailey and Cueto can do, and I'm very excited about Votto and Jay Bruce. If Perez is as good of a defensive catcher that everyone says then he will be just perfect for the 2010 team.

Who know maybe in 2-3 years the REDS can catch fire like the Tigers did in 06.

kbrake
01-30-2007, 10:20 AM
Dont see Arroyo still in Cincinnati in 2010.

dougdirt
01-30-2007, 12:44 PM
by the rules of it all, anyone on the current team has to be projected as a part of the future team. So even if the odds are we wont have Dunn or Arroyo in 2010, they are applied to the list becuase they are current Reds.

kbrake
01-30-2007, 12:47 PM
by the rules of it all, anyone on the current team has to be projected as a part of the future team. So even if the odds are we wont have Dunn or Arroyo in 2010, they are applied to the list becuase they are current Reds.

alright thanks for clearing that up doug.

Redsland
01-30-2007, 01:16 PM
by the rules of it all, anyone on the current team has to be projected as a part of the future team.
Then where's Jeff Conine?

:)

Red Leader
01-30-2007, 01:19 PM
Then where's Jeff Conine?

:)

He's with the Brennaman boys up in the booth. They love each other and their young bodies.

Benihana
01-30-2007, 01:29 PM
As I posted on another thread, I wouldn't mind seeing this as our future team. The only changes I would make, as I don't see Arroyo here for the longterm, would be to eventually trade Bronson (maybe next year at the trade deadline) for a top-flight SS prospect and some young pitching. Maybe deal him back to the Pirates for Zach Duke and Jack Wilson? That may be too much to ask. At the very least I believe we should be able to deal him in a Suppan-Sanchez type deal.

Harang, and to a much lesser extent, Dunn and Phillips should be locked up for the long term by the end of this year. Everybody else on this team I believe is already signed through 2010. Obviously as with any roster projected three years into the future, this squad is based on a lot of assumptions (all of our top eight prospects pan out to major league starters- something that most assuredly won't happen, with the most realistic flameouts being Loo, Stubbs, Cueto/Wood and Watson- in that order).

That said (and assumed), without Arroyo, I think this 2010 team could be a SS and a FA #3 Veteran starter away from championship contention.

Reds1
01-30-2007, 01:45 PM
Dont see Arroyo still in Cincinnati in 2010.

That was my 1st thought when I looked at that team. In all reality I hope there is some other players here because if we are just going to go from our farm system - well, that's probably not going to do it, but that being said this is the strongest prospect list I"ve seen in awhile from the Reds.

RedsManRick
01-30-2007, 01:57 PM
Go back to 2004. Project our 2007 starting lineup. Raise your hand if you had Hatteberg, Alex Gonzalez, David Ross, Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo or Kyle Lohse on that team.

Sure, it's kind of fun to do, but it's rather pointless.

Sean_CaseyRules
01-30-2007, 02:04 PM
What about Bill Bray? If he does happen to become a really good closer then why not keep him around?

NC Reds
01-30-2007, 02:37 PM
Best Infield Arm - Juan Francisco

Isn't he the host of Sabado Gigante? ;)

I would love that projected lineup for 2010. Sadly, it does not fit into the gritty veteran schematic that Krivsky has so foolishly embraced. I fear Rich Aurillia will be making his third or fourth stint with Cincy by 2010. :D

M2
01-30-2007, 02:46 PM
Perez won't be in the majors in 2010 and he most certainly won't be with the Reds. He'll be two years into his new career as a minor league journeyman.

jmcclain19
01-30-2007, 06:22 PM
Perez's inclusion just shows how bad the Reds catching development has been.

Talk about barren. The Reds catcher of the future is someone the team released just a few short weeks ago.

They'd better take a catcher with one of the team's high picks this year, and hope he pans out. Maybe they should draft two.

Red Leader
01-30-2007, 08:27 PM
Perez's inclusion just shows how bad the Reds catching development has been.

Talk about barren. The Reds catcher of the future is someone the team released just a few short weeks ago.

They'd better take a catcher with one of the team's high picks this year, and hope he pans out. Maybe they should draft two.

Sad isn't it? I think the Reds drafted two catchers last year if I'm not mistaken. Neither of them were very high picks. Maybe it was 2005 I'm thinking of. Regardless, the Reds have tried the "draft a couple of them and see if one sticks" approach. They need to draft a catcher in the first 4-5 rounds. A catcher with some serious upside that will almost no doubt stick. I think this may be the year they try that. We've got MI's in the minors now, we've got decent pitching prospects (although we could always use more). I think this might be the year they go after corner infield and corner outfield guys who can drive the ball and a catcher with more than just defensive skills on his resume.

jmcclain19
01-31-2007, 02:28 AM
Sad isn't it? I think the Reds drafted two catchers last year if I'm not mistaken. Neither of them were very high picks. Maybe it was 2005 I'm thinking of. Regardless, the Reds have tried the "draft a couple of them and see if one sticks" approach. They need to draft a catcher in the first 4-5 rounds. A catcher with some serious upside that will almost no doubt stick. I think this may be the year they try that. We've got MI's in the minors now, we've got decent pitching prospects (although we could always use more). I think this might be the year they go after corner infield and corner outfield guys who can drive the ball and a catcher with more than just defensive skills on his resume.

They picked three real late last year, I don't know if any even signed.

I the last time they took a catcher in the first 10 rounds was '04 when they took Lonny Roa from the Puerto Rico Baseball Academy in the 6th. Maybe it's because Roa was a part of the first class to come out of that academy that I had hopes for Roa - but he's a washout. A whopping 100 career pro ABs over two seasons before he left to find another profession.

This prompted me to do a little research RL.

The last time they took a catcher high before that was Votto in the 2nd round in 2002 & Sardinha in the 2nd round in 2000. But they flipped Votto right away to 1B and Sardinha was never really more than a Scott Boras Mirage - but he at least made it to AAA.

They had two guys picked in the 8th & 10th rounds in the Jeremy Sowers draft but the 8th round pick didn't sign and Brian Prince never made it above A ball.

In '98 they picked Jacob Wallis in the 10th round as a HS Catcher - he wasn't old enough to buy a beer before the Reds cut him loose.

That's an entire decade where exactly one catcher drafted has a chance to make the big squad as a regular, and he'll do it as a first baseman.

A little further back - Jason LaRue - a 5th round pick in 1995, was a long time Red. Paul Bako - picked in the 5th in 1993 - had a nice career for a while as a backup, but never played a game as a Red.

I don't even see any late round catchers the Reds swung and missed on that blossomed elsewhere either. The closest I could find was Brian Loyd - a Reds 39th round pick in 1995 - he was later drafted by the Padres and seemed to be doing well - made it as far as AAA before injuries did him in.

Probably the most important position on the diamond, yet the Reds seem 100% inept at doing anything about it. A nice microcosm of the Reds system in general the last 15 years or so.

BoydsOfSummer
01-31-2007, 05:18 AM
Milton Loo at SS--interesting. I have him pictured as a EE type guy. He could play some SS but is more likely to be a 3B. Was I wrong in that assessment?

remdog
01-31-2007, 06:39 AM
The Reds had a catcher at Dayton one year named Whitehead, IIRC. He may have played on the team with Dunn and Kearnes. Gritty kind of guy and pretty decent at that level but injuries (I think) did him in. What I remember about him though was him putting the toss back to the pitcher in a left-handed batters earhole---twice!! :laugh:

Seems to me that another time he nailed a right-handed batter in the helmet trying to throw out a guy at third but I could just be getting blurry memories there. :eek:

Rem

camisadelgolf
01-31-2007, 07:47 AM
They picked three real late last year, I don't know if any even signed.

I the last time they took a catcher in the first 10 rounds was '04 when they took Lonny Roa from the Puerto Rico Baseball Academy in the 6th. Maybe it's because Roa was a part of the first class to come out of that academy that I had hopes for Roa - but he's a washout. A whopping 100 career pro ABs over two seasons before he left to find another profession.
. . .


The Reds drafted Craig Tatum in the 3rd round in 2004. At age 24, he won't have played above A-ball, though.

M2
01-31-2007, 09:25 AM
I'm not a big fan of burning a high draft pick on a catcher. Sardinha, Tatum and, to a lesser extent, Lonny Roa are examples of why.

That's especially the case because the Reds seem to specialize in catch-and-throw guys with non-existent hitting skills. It escapes me as to why no one in the organization has been able to put two and two together and realize the last catcher the franchise successfully developed won two minor league battings titles and that maybe the organization would do well to mix in some catchers with some sort of clue at the plate, but no one's done it (or at least no one's tried to mimic it).

I'd rather see the team fish through castoffs and the international market than burn draft picks on guys who've got next to zero chance of hitting their weight in the majors.

Red Leader
01-31-2007, 09:40 AM
I'm not a big fan of burning a high draft pick on a catcher. Sardinha, Tatum and, to a lesser extent, Lonny Roa are examples of why.

That's especially the case because the Reds seem to specialize in catch-and-throw guys with non-existent hitting skills. It escapes me as to why no one in the organization has been able to put two and two together and realize the last catcher the franchise successfully developed won two minor league battings titles and that maybe the organization would do well to mix in some catchers with some sort of clue at the plate, but no one's done it (or at least no one's tried to mimic it).

I'd rather see the team fish through castoffs and the international market than burn draft picks on guys who've got next to zero chance of hitting their weight in the majors.

I've always wondered this, but doesn't Johnny Bench have a position within the Reds...special assistant to the GM or some such title? Is that a Red's salaried position? If so, couldn't one of his assignments be to at least look over catching prospects in the upcoming draft and give his input. I'm guessing if they gave him a list of 200 catchers he could look through all of them in 2 weeks, a month tops and pick out 20 that he liked. I've always been curious as to why the Reds don't make use of that resource. Johnny Bench essentially defined the catching position. You'd think he'd be able to identify talent.

M2
01-31-2007, 09:43 AM
I've always wondered this, but doesn't Johnny Bench have a position within the Reds...special assistant to the GM or some such title? Is that a Red's salaried position? If so, couldn't one of his assignments be to at least look over catching prospects in the upcoming draft and give his input. I'm guessing if they gave him a list of 200 catchers he could look through all of them in 2 weeks, a month tops and pick out 20 that he liked. I've always been curious as to why the Reds don't make use of that resource. Johnny Bench essentially defined the catching position. You'd think he'd be able to identify talent.

Bench might have impossible standards though. There's also the old saw that greatness doesn't understand itself, it just is.

Red Leader
01-31-2007, 10:05 AM
Bench might have impossible standards though. There's also the old saw that greatness doesn't understand itself, it just is.

Could it be worse than the scouting they've done over the last 10 years or so? :dunno:

Understand your point, though. It just really kills me that the Reds haven't had a decent catching prospect in a long, long time.

Of course it probably bothers me more, and I'm guessing jmmclain as well, because we were both former catchers.

Cooper
01-31-2007, 10:05 AM
The Great Dane was a terrible pick and to a man all the draft guru's on this board said so.

Perez is a terrible waste as a hitter. I'd convert him to pitcher sometime in the near future. He's never going to hit enough to even be a back up catcher so you might as well start the process of conversion now....or include him in on a trade to a team that loves tools, but derides skills.

lollipopcurve
01-31-2007, 10:13 AM
Just getting an early look at the draft crop, but supposedly this is a good year for college catchers. With the windfall of early picks, I would be surprised if the Reds didn't snag one of them (similar to the As recent drafting of Jeremy Brown and Kurt Suzuki).

Bigredfan#1
01-31-2007, 10:56 AM
Dont see Arroyo still in Cincinnati in 2010.

me either

Gallen5862
01-31-2007, 11:17 AM
How did Eddie Rodriguez do last year? He was a catcher that was drafted last year.

dougdirt
01-31-2007, 11:26 AM
How did Eddie Rodriguez do last year? He was a catcher that was drafted last year.

.235/.300/.529 in 17 at bats for the GCL Reds....

Red Leader
01-31-2007, 11:28 AM
How we lookin'?

Not good.

dougdirt
01-31-2007, 11:30 AM
How we lookin'?

Not good.

Speak for yourself, I am rather attractive :p:

jmcclain19
01-31-2007, 11:33 AM
The Reds drafted Craig Tatum in the 3rd round in 2004. At age 24, he won't have played above A-ball, though.

Good call, I totally forgot about Tatum. Just another one to add to the washout pile.

jmcclain19
01-31-2007, 11:45 AM
I'm not a big fan of burning a high draft pick on a catcher. Sardinha, Tatum and, to a lesser extent, Lonny Roa are examples of why.

That's especially the case because the Reds seem to specialize in catch-and-throw guys with non-existent hitting skills. It escapes me as to why no one in the organization has been able to put two and two together and realize the last catcher the franchise successfully developed won two minor league battings titles and that maybe the organization would do well to mix in some catchers with some sort of clue at the plate, but no one's done it (or at least no one's tried to mimic it).

I'd rather see the team fish through castoffs and the international market than burn draft picks on guys who've got next to zero chance of hitting their weight in the majors.

Yeah it's a catch-22. If you can't figure out how to develop one, instead you lock up $10 million in salary on journeyman hoping to catch lightning in a bottle - money that could be spent elsewhere.

This year I'm excited about the idea because of what RL said - there are several top shelf college and HS catchers available, and since the Reds have a bushel of early picks this year, think it's time to cash one of those in.

Red Leader
01-31-2007, 11:53 AM
This year I'm excited about the idea because of what RL said - there are several top shelf college and HS catchers available, and since the Reds have a bushel of early picks this year, think it's time to cash one of those in.

Wasn't me, it was lollipop curve, but I agree with what he said, there is some decent talent at the catching position in this year's draft.

camisadelgolf
01-31-2007, 06:48 PM
Because there's so much talk about the organization's lack of quality at the catcher position, I'd just like to note (and it's to be taken with some grains of salt) that Jacob Long (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/L/jacob-long.shtml), a 20-year-old 37th round draft pick from 2005, has looked pretty good from what I've read.

M2
01-31-2007, 06:53 PM
Because there's so much talk about the organization's lack of quality at the catcher position, I'd just like to note (and it's to be taken with some grains of salt) that Jacob Long (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/L/jacob-long.shtml), a 20-year-old 37th round draft pick from 2005, has looked pretty good from what I've read.

Hard to say what to expect from him. Obviously he'll need to develop some power along the way. That said, the American Dragon is probably the top catching prospect in the system at the moment.