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jmac
01-30-2007, 08:45 PM
I've been in and out and not read all the threads lately but what about the freel/deno thing.
Alot has been said about one of them playing center but let's just focus on the players right now. What is everyone's opinion of the approach going into ST.
Is the RF/CF job Freel's to lose? Will their be competition for the job ?
I have not really heard Narron address this specifically.
I mean if Deno hits .385 in ST and Freel hits .250 , will it be Freel in RF/CF on opening day or can Deno take it?
Again....sorry if discussed and if it has been ...feel free to link me to a thread...

bucksfan2
01-31-2007, 12:04 PM
I would hope it is a competition. I think Deno is a better all around ball player than freel. Freel's hustle has enamored him with this city and I find it hard to believe that Narron would sit Freel becaue he is a fan favorite.

flyer85
01-31-2007, 12:29 PM
I think the OF is a lock, Dunn in LF, JR in CF and Freel in RF. IMHO what happens in ST isn't going to matter.

BRM
01-31-2007, 12:32 PM
I think the OF is a lock, Dunn in LF, JR in CF and Freel in RF. IMHO what happens in ST isn't going to matter.

You are probably right. Deno will get some time in CF and RF to spell Junior and Freel but I think your starting three will be Narron's starting three come opening day.

bucksfan
01-31-2007, 12:38 PM
From strictly an opinion standpoint, I would think Freel to be close to a lock. However a blatant performance advantage displayed in ST by Deno could certainly change things, knowing the general sentiment that Freel would "still get his ABs" in as all-around utility role. At this point I am not sure when Deno could offer that Freel cannot in the OF, beside possibly more durability.

CRedsLarkin11
01-31-2007, 12:56 PM
I agree, I think the outfield is Dunn in left, Griffey in center and Freel in right. Obviously, they might not be at the best positions for them(Griffey) but this is probably the way it will play out. I would like to see more of Denorfia, though.

justincredible
01-31-2007, 01:01 PM
I agree, I think the outfield is Dunn in left, Griffey in center and Freel in right. Obviously, they might not be at the best positions for them(Griffey) but this is probably the way it will play out. I would like to see more of Denorfia, though.

I've seen enough of Deno to know I would rather see someone like Hopper in the lineup than him. He hasn't really shown me anything to really think he is going to ever do any damage in the big leagues. I'd love for him to prove me wrong but I just don't see it.

BRM
01-31-2007, 01:03 PM
I've seen enough of Deno to know I would rather see someone like Hopper in the lineup than him. He hasn't really shown me anything to really think he is going to ever do any damage in the big leagues. I'd love for him to prove me wrong but I just don't see it.

You lost me at "Hopper".

TOBTTReds
01-31-2007, 01:11 PM
I've seen enough of Deno to know I would rather see someone like Hopper in the lineup than him. He hasn't really shown me anything to really think he is going to ever do any damage in the big leagues. I'd love for him to prove me wrong but I just don't see it.

I think you have to give him a shot. Deno has hit every where. After a very poor season up to September, Deno finally got in a groove and was the only one that hit in the last month.

.352 Avg, .407 obp, .463 slg, .870 OPS in 54 AB's.

I'm not saying he is a starter, because I just about give that roll to Freel as a lock. But Deno deserves some time.

edabbs44
01-31-2007, 01:14 PM
I think the OF is a lock, Dunn in LF, JR in CF and Freel in RF. IMHO what happens in ST isn't going to matter.

Yep...Freel usually gets his DUI after the team gets back from ST. :)

RedsManRick
01-31-2007, 01:17 PM
It's a competition but Freel has a significant head start. Deno is going to need to have a solid spring to be thought of as anything but a 4th OF, which is sad. I'm just waiting for the trade in June when he gets sent somewhere for an A ball starter and turns in to an .800 OPS gold glove CF elsewhere. Shortly thereafter, Ryan Freel breaks something giving Jeff Conine and Josh Hamilton significant at bats in RF while Junior moves back to CF...

justincredible
01-31-2007, 01:17 PM
You lost me at "Hopper".

Hopper has shown me more at the plate than Deno has so far. Granted his sample size is much smaller, 39 ABs vs 149 ABs, but his BA is 80 points higher and his OPS is about 300 points higher. I believe he also won the AAA batting title didn't he? It seems like the guy just knows how to hit.

PuffyPig
01-31-2007, 01:22 PM
At this point I am not sure when Deno could offer that Freel cannot in the OF, beside possibly more durability.

I think that Deno offers more upside than Freel. Deno has hit everywhere, including with some power. It's not impossible that he could bring a .280-.300 average, with 15 HR's and good OB ability. Add in good speed, and a good glove and range , and you have a pretty good CF.

BRM
01-31-2007, 01:26 PM
Hopper has shown me more at the plate than Deno has so far. Granted his sample size is much smaller, 39 ABs vs 149 ABs, but his BA is 80 points higher and his OPS is about 300 points higher. I believe he also won the AAA batting title didn't he? It seems like the guy just knows how to hit.

The guy has a career minor league OPS of .682.

justincredible
01-31-2007, 01:32 PM
The guy has a career minor league OPS of .682.

I didn't look at his minor league stats so I didn't realize it was so low.

RedsManRick
01-31-2007, 01:37 PM
Hopper has shown me more at the plate than Deno has so far. Granted his sample size is much smaller, 39 ABs vs 149 ABs, but his BA is 80 points higher and his OPS is about 300 points higher. I believe he also won the AAA batting title didn't he? It seems like the guy just knows how to hit.

Norris Hopper, 28
Minors: 3,617 PA, .290/.345/.337, 190/252 SB, 4 years in AA or higher
Majors: 45 PA, .359/.435/.462
PECOTA 2007 Weighted Mean Projection: .270/.312/.313, -10.4 VORP, 1.6 WARP

Chris Denorfia, 27
Minors: 2,257 PA, .296/.377/.441, 80/110 SB, 2.5 years in AA or higher
Majors: 161 PA, .278/.358/.382
PECOTA 2007 Weighted Mean Projection: .296/.365/.459, 22.9 VORP, 3.8 WARP

I'll let you come to your own conclusions, but people smarter than me think Denorfia should be an above average major league CF offensively in 2007. His minor league track record supports it and he was very good at the end of 2006 when he got regular playing time. He was voted the best defensive OF in AAA.

Norris Hopper had 45 PA with a BABIP of .389. A small sample size in which he was lucky. He has 1 HR in 45 PA in the majors -- 3 in 3,600 PA in the minors. Nothing besides a miniscule sample of major league at bats suggests he's anything other than a Tony Womack like offensive player without the speed of Womack in his prime.

BRM
01-31-2007, 01:37 PM
I didn't look at his minor league stats so I didn't realize it was so low.

He's a BA driven player that has ZERO power and can't take a walk. I'd definitely pass on Norris Hopper as anything more than a fifth outfielder.

justincredible
01-31-2007, 01:45 PM
Looking at the stats I realize I may have jumped to conclusions on Hopper. I can't believe Hopper only hit 3 HRs in 9 years in the minors. I knew Deno was the better prospect and projected better but I just hadn't seen anything out of him yet besides the end of last season. I will gladly retract my original statement and go take my dumbarse pills.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
01-31-2007, 01:45 PM
You are probably right. Deno will get some time in CF and RF to spell Junior and Freel but I think your starting three will be Narron's starting three come opening day.
Wouldn't it be great if Dunner could/would be able to play first base. Deno in left, Freel in center, and Griffey in right.

Danny Serafini
01-31-2007, 01:46 PM
I believe he also won the AAA batting title didn't he?

Yes he did at .347. It's worth noting though that Denorfia hit .349, he just didn't have enough at bats to qualify for the title.

bucksfan2
01-31-2007, 02:26 PM
What people tend to remember about freel are the great catches that he makes in the outfield. I have to admit I was at the Cards game when he made the catch in RF and it was one of the greatest catches I have ever seeen. What people fail to remember is all the balls he has played wrong. The remember how he steals so many bases and how fast he is. What they dont remember is how man times he gets picked off base. How many times he gets caught steeling. How many times he gets caught trying to streatch a single into a double. For my money give me Deno in the outfield.