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TOBTTReds
02-01-2007, 01:18 PM
This is supposed to be decided today correct? He should have his arbitration hearing scheduled today I believe, then we can have an official countdown to see if the Reds are idiots or not.

AdamDunn
02-01-2007, 03:58 PM
too me, if Krivsky doesn't sign Harang to a long term contract before arbitration, he's worst than Jim Bowden

redsmetz
02-01-2007, 05:08 PM
Hearings are scheduled to start today and run through the 1st three weeks, but I don't see when Harang's hearing is scheduled.

Unassisted
02-01-2007, 10:23 PM
too me, if Krivsky doesn't sign Harang to a long term contract before arbitration, he's worst than Jim Bowden Maybe Harang's agent doesn't want his client signed to a LTC. How would that be Wayne's fault?

Johnny Footstool
02-02-2007, 09:29 AM
Maybe Harang's agent doesn't want his client signed to a LTC. How would that be Wayne's fault?

If that's the case, Krivsky should trade him now while his value is extremely high. Harang would bring back a king's ransom in prospects and cheap, ML-ready talent. The right deal could solidify the pitching staff for the next 6 years.

gonelong
02-02-2007, 10:12 AM
Maybe Harang's agent doesn't want his client signed to a LTC. How would that be Wayne's fault?

Short of us hearing that Harang wants $25M/Yr or wants to move to a specific team, the Reds had better sign this guy or I am going to lose quite a bit of interest in this franchise.

If they have a reasonable chance to sign this guy and then don't I am going to be very disappointed. If you won't sign Harang I have no idea who you will sign.

GL

redsmetz
02-02-2007, 11:46 AM
I noticed this morning that the Phillies signed Brett Myers to a three year $25.75 Million deal. They seem close in service time (not exactly equal) and that's about what folks here have said Harang ought to sign for, maybe a slight bit more. I'm assuming Wayne is negotiating. We have to remember, even at these numbers, this is a seriously high amount of money. I think we can get this done.

bounty37h
02-02-2007, 11:56 AM
If that's the case, Krivsky should trade him now while his value is extremely high. Harang would bring back a king's ransom in prospects and cheap, ML-ready talent. The right deal could solidify the pitching staff for the next 6 years.

Johnny, I would hate to lose him, but agree with you if he doesn' want to sign longterm

TOBTTReds
02-02-2007, 12:03 PM
I noticed this morning that the Phillies signed Brett Myers to a three year $25.75 Million deal. They seem close in service time (not exactly equal) and that's about what folks here have said Harang ought to sign for, maybe a slight bit more. I'm assuming Wayne is negotiating. We have to remember, even at these numbers, this is a seriously high amount of money. I think we can get this done.

Here is how Myers is broken down: 250k bonus; $5 in 2007, $8.5 in 08, $12 in 09

I think that deal could kill it for the Reds. Say Harang makes 6 mil this year. Then what would he have to make the next two years in a 3 year deal?

6 mil, 9.5, 14?
6, 10, 15?

With Harang's durability and continued improvement/success, he should be getting more than Myers in his deal. We could be looking at 3 yr/ 30 mil. Which I guess isn't terrible, but it is a lot for this team.

redsmetz
02-02-2007, 12:08 PM
Here is how Myers is broken down: 250k bonus; $5 in 2007, $8.5 in 08, $12 in 09

I think that deal could kill it for the Reds. Say Harang makes 6 mil this year. Then what would he have to make the next two years in a 3 year deal?

6 mil, 9.5, 14?
6, 10, 15?

With Harang's durability and continued improvement/success, he should be getting more than Myers in his deal. We could be looking at 3 yr/ 30 mil. Which I guess isn't terrible, but it is a lot for this team.

I don't think those sort of numbers are deal breakers for the Reds. Many continue to suggest this team is chintzing on contracts, but I think they're looking to be judicious on deals. If the Reds can't do a deal like that (or near about), then as some have said, Bob C. needs to hang it up. I think it's doable, although we may structure it differently, particularly given the Milton and Griffey contracts this year.

TOBTTReds
02-02-2007, 12:14 PM
I don't think those sort of numbers are deal breakers for the Reds. Many continue to suggest this team is chintzing on contracts, but I think they're looking to be judicious on deals. If the Reds can't do a deal like that (or near about), then as some have said, Bob C. needs to hang it up. I think it's doable, although we may structure it differently, particularly given the Milton and Griffey contracts this year.

Maybe the Jr. contract will force us into a 4 year deal with a big pay day that 4th year (Jr.'s first year off payroll I believe.)

Red Leader
02-02-2007, 12:16 PM
I'd go 6M in 2007, 8.5M in 2008, 10.5 in 2009 and hold a 12M mutual option for 2010 at 12.5M.

That's 3 yr / 25M as well. If the option is picked up that's 4 yr / 37M.

CaiGuy
02-02-2007, 12:24 PM
Harang should get Milty's money (and maybe a little more) when Eric is off the books after this year. Give him his 6 (or whatever he asked for in arb.) this year, then around ten the next two years. Anywhere between 3/25 and 3/30 would be a steal for the Reds. He could get a lot more.

Johnny Footstool
02-02-2007, 12:25 PM
Johnny, I would hate to lose him, but agree with you if he doesn' want to sign longterm

Me, too. I think Harang is the type of pitcher you break the bank to sign. But if he doesn't want to be in Cincinnati long-term, he's incredibly valuable as a trade commodity.

redsmetz
02-02-2007, 12:25 PM
Maybe the Jr. contract will force us into a 4 year deal with a big pay day that 4th year (Jr.'s first year off payroll I believe.)

Junior only has two more years on his contract (this year and next), plus a club option in '09 ($16.5 Million), which I don't think the club will exercise ($4M buyout).

dougdirt
02-02-2007, 12:44 PM
Well we know that the Reds hav not even brought up the LTC conversation with Harang. Recently in an article Krivsky was asked about signing him to a LTC and Wayne said its something they might visit.

IslandRed
02-02-2007, 12:48 PM
Well we know that the Reds hav not even brought up the LTC conversation with Harang. Recently in an article Krivsky was asked about signing him to a LTC and Wayne said its something they might visit.

Wayne doesn't seem like the type to do his negotiating in the media, so it's questionable as to whether or not he was giving a straight answer.

thatcoolguy_22
02-02-2007, 12:51 PM
I feel like I am just agreeing with everyone else but a 3 year deal around 30million should be sufficient with a 4th year option. Anything longer than that is too risky anything shorter than that you risk losing him to free agency.



Well we know that the Reds hav not even brought up the LTC conversation with Harang. Recently in an article Krivsky was asked about signing him to a LTC and Wayne said its something they might visit.


If Krivsky was worth his salt he would have "been visiting" a LTC with Harang about the same day the reds were finished with their 2006 campaign IMO

HotCorner
02-02-2007, 12:53 PM
Krivsky was on with Richard Skinner yesterday and said that they are working on signing him long term.

redsmetz
02-02-2007, 07:33 PM
Krivsky was on with Richard Skinner yesterday and said that they are working on signing him long term.

:jump:

vaticanplum
02-02-2007, 08:42 PM
Did anybody see the CityBeat cartoon about this last week? Harang was reaching for a carrot named "Free Agency" and Wayne Krivsky was trying to hold him back with a piece of cake or something. I really have the details wrong here. But it was funny, and makes me think that popular (as oppposed to Internet freak) opinion is that Krivsky is trying very hard but Harang has his eye on a bigger prize. It's very possible.

Chip R
02-02-2007, 09:40 PM
Wayne said they did talk about a multi-year deal last year and in hindsight he wishes they would have signed Aaron for close to what he was asking for because the market went crazy in the offseason.

edabbs44
02-02-2007, 10:33 PM
Did anybody see the CityBeat cartoon about this last week? Harang was reaching for a carrot named "Free Agency" and Wayne Krivsky was trying to hold him back with a piece of cake or something. I really have the details wrong here. But it was funny, and makes me think that popular (as oppposed to Internet freak) opinion is that Krivsky is trying very hard but Harang has his eye on a bigger prize. It's very possible.

http://www.citybeat.com/2007-01-24/sports-1.jpg

Jpup
02-03-2007, 02:59 AM
my time is now, you can't see me, my time is now.

--John Cena

Get it done Wayne.

AdamDunn
02-03-2007, 02:49 PM
Krivsky was on with Richard Skinner yesterday and said that they are working on signing him long term.

There is a God.
He's the contract I'd offer
07- 5.5 million
08- 8 million
09- 9.5 million
10- 10.5 million
Option (.5 million dollar buy out)
11- 14.5 million

so it's 4 years, 34 million dollars or five years, 48 million dollars

TOBTTReds
02-03-2007, 03:08 PM
There is a God.
He's the contract I'd offer
07- 5.5 million
08- 8 million
09- 9.5 million
10- 10.5 million
Option (.5 million dollar buy out)
11- 14.5 million

so it's 4 years, 34 million dollars or five years, 48 million dollars

Brett Myers contract is much better than that and he wasn't quite as good.

Jpup
02-04-2007, 01:17 AM
Brett Myers contract is much better than that and he wasn't quite as good.

IMO, Myers is a better pitcher than Harang.

icehole3
02-04-2007, 08:21 AM
I'd flip a coin on Myers and Harang as well.

TOBTTReds
02-04-2007, 05:07 PM
IMO, Myers is a better pitcher than Harang.

Harang's VORP was about 10 whole points better and ranked 11th in the ML's at 50.2 compared to Myers at 40.7.

Caveat Emperor
02-04-2007, 05:21 PM
Wayne said they did talk about a multi-year deal last year and in hindsight he wishes they would have signed Aaron for close to what he was asking for because the market went crazy in the offseason.

I wonder if the issue now is money or term of years.

It's not just that the market has gone crazy in terms of dollars, it's also gone crazy in terms of length of contracts. Harang might be looking at a good 3 year deal from the Reds and thinking to himself "I could get a 6-7 year deal in FA if I just hold out a bit longer." That kind of money would set him for life and guarantee paydays into the next decade even if he should, god forbid, suffer some kind of injury.

If the Reds are being cheap and don't find the cash to sign Harang, I'd be mad about that. If the Reds are just uncomfortable committing so much future capital to a deal that stretches long into the future, I have less of a problem with that.

Always Red
02-04-2007, 05:22 PM
In light of the new pitching market this offseason, if I were Aaron Harang, I'd sign for not a penny less than 3 years, $30 million, and then after that contract, I'd go on the open market. At arbitration, his agent could easily show why his numbers could prove that he is the best pitcher in the NL; in fact, I'm surprised his agent submitted the rather low number that he did.

Krivsky can't really win on this deal- if Harang and his agent do not want a LTC now (even a 3 year deal), Krivsky will be roasted here. If Harang wants to get to open market free agency ASAP, and WK trades him for a slew of prospects, Krivsky will also be roasted here on these pages.

I hope WK can sign him, to at least a three year deal. But he can't force Aaron to do so.:dunno:

Chip R
02-04-2007, 09:43 PM
In light of the new pitching market this offseason, if I were Aaron Harang, I'd sign for not a penny less than 3 years, $30 million, and then after that contract, I'd go on the open market. At arbitration, his agent could easily show why his numbers could prove that he is the best pitcher in the NL; in fact, I'm surprised his agent submitted the rather low number that he did.


Aaron is only in his second year of arbitration eligibility. Therefore he is pretty much restricted to comparing himself against other 2 year arbitration eligible pitchers. Now, if they do it again next year, the sky's the limit.

CE you may be right on that. I wonder if the Reds would be OK with a 6-7 year deal at around $10M a year rather than a 3-4 year deal at $12-15M a year? Less money but more security. However, if you are looking to sign him to a 3-4 year deal, Aaron and his agent are going to laugh in the Reds face if that last year or two is anywhere south of $12M a year. If he's one of the best pitchers in the NL - much less MLB - you better pay him like it or someone else will. And you better do it before the market jumps again.

Jpup
02-05-2007, 07:15 AM
Harang's VORP was about 10 whole points better and ranked 11th in the ML's at 50.2 compared to Myers at 40.7.

ok, that doesn't tell me anything. Myers had a down year because of his little scene in Boston and getting sent down to deal with it didn't help. Right now, I don't care what the numbers say, I would take Brett Myers over Aaron Harang every day.

Don't get me wrong, I am a very, very big Harang fan. I was one of the very first around here to project his greatness and I think he will be a decent guy for a long time.

bottom_feeder
02-05-2007, 11:20 AM
With Harang's durability and continued improvement/success, he should be getting more than Myers in his deal. We could be looking at 3 yr/ 30 mil. Which I guess isn't terrible, but it is a lot for this team.

Considering we spent about 7 million/year in Weathers, Stanton, and Cormier, an average of 10 million/year for Harang is a bargain.

Jpup
02-06-2007, 01:20 AM
another day closer to reporting day will no deal in place.:bang:

Chip R
02-06-2007, 09:27 AM
From the Post this morning:

"Also Monday, Krivsky said he has been in touch with starting pitcher Aaron Harang and his agents and the Reds general manager said he hopes to have a contract worked out with the pitcher to avoid arbitration."

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/SPT05/702060334/1035/SPT

dsmith421
02-06-2007, 12:22 PM
signed a 4-year extension per Rosencrans. Great news!

RadioWink
02-06-2007, 12:24 PM
signs through 2010 per official press release from Rob Butcher.