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View Full Version : NFL Actively working to kill off large Super Bowl Parties



jmcclain19
02-03-2007, 05:30 PM
I wish this was from the Onion, but sadly, it's not.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070201/SPORTS03/70201036


The (Super Bowl) party's over

Churches in Indiana and across the country are scrapping traditional Super Bowl viewing parties in wake of the NFL’s stance that mass viewings of the game on big screen TV’s would violate copyright law.

The issue came to light Thursday when the Star reported that the NFL had told Fall Creek Baptist Church in Indianapolis that its plans for a Super Bowl watch party in front a big screen TV would be illegal.
NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Thursday the league stands by its interpretation of copyright law and would look into any violators that comes to the league’s attention. The main concern for the league, Aiello said, is groups that charge admission to watch games and those that use a TV screen larger than 55 inches to show the game.

A story about Fall Creek’s plan to cancel its game viewing plans prompted dozens of calls and more than 500 email comments to the Star’s website Thursday. Aiello said media from around the country have been inquiring with the league as well.

In Indianapolis, home of the AFC Champion Colts, Indian Creek Christian Church and Castleton United Methodist Church are among those who have cancelled plans to watch the game in their churches.

The issue came to light after the NFL confronted Fall Creek about its promotion of a “Super Bowl Bash” at the church that would bring together congregation members to watch the game with a projection TV.

Aiello said the league has a longstanding policy against “mass out-of-home viewings” of the Super Bowl, even if the hosts don’t charge admission. The NFL makes an exception to that, however, for sports bars that show televised sports on a regular basis. And that point has been a point of considerable anger among people who have contacted the newspaper in response to the story.

pedro
02-03-2007, 06:45 PM
wow. that's just stupid.

GAC
02-03-2007, 07:13 PM
I'd still do it and tell the NFL to bring it on!

MrCinatit
02-03-2007, 07:22 PM
When did Bud Selig take over as NFL commissioner?

WVRed
02-03-2007, 07:28 PM
I'd still do it and tell the NFL to bring it on!

I disagree with this from this perspective.

Where I attend church, we are having a "Souper Bowl" party. The pastor has tried to promote it, yet very few have signed up. The reason? Not many of the people who attend watch the actual game, even though it is provided. It is mostly teenagers and some of the older adults, but with no commercials and no halftime show(this was before Janet).

I do give them credit for trying. They are bringing in a big screen TV and having Madden faceoffs during the commercial breaks. However, you are not going to attract people to watch a Super Bowl by providing soup and censoring out the commercials.

As far as the article itself, yeah, it is stupid. Sorry about the rant.:rant:

George Foster
02-03-2007, 07:32 PM
wow. that's just stupid.

Ya....the NFL isn't making any money at all....I'd tell them to sue me!

UKFlounder
02-03-2007, 07:37 PM
When did Bud Selig take over as NFL commissioner?

Dang - that was going to be my line. :evil:

Chip R
02-03-2007, 08:44 PM
Ya....the NFL isn't making any money at all....I'd tell them to sue me!


And they would. Then you'd have to look for a different church because they would bankrupt yours. I think it's ridiculous to let a sports bar do it and not let a church. Perhaps the church should do this on a regular basis. Then they could have their Super Bowl party.

Razor Shines
02-03-2007, 10:59 PM
55 inches? How many people makes up too many people? I am going to a party at a friends house and he has a screen bigger than 55 inches. How are they regulating this?

Ok, if you go to watch it at church you have to have a screen less than 55 inches, which would only be good for about 10-15 people. Or you can have a party at your house with a screen bigger than 55 inches as long as you don't charge admission. Or a sports bar can have one with as big a screen as they want, as many people as they want and charge admission if they want. That's the way I understand it, but I may be wrong. I guess I underestimated the amount of influence beer companies have on the NFL.

paintmered
02-04-2007, 12:29 AM
The rule has been reversed by the NFL so long as no admission is paid to view the game.

Guess the PR nightmare wasn't worth the fight.

GAC
02-04-2007, 05:15 AM
And they would. Then you'd have to look for a different church because they would bankrupt yours.

Maybe. But if these "groups" (especially a church) are not charging admission, then I think the NFL would have a hard time with the case. And I really don't think the NFL would want that type of publicity and bad rep they'd get from it.

It would be really stupid on their part suing a church.

LoganBuck
02-04-2007, 07:30 AM
Admission and Suggested Donation are two different things right?

Chip R
02-04-2007, 10:09 AM
Maybe. But if these "groups" (especially a church) are not charging admission, then I think the NFL would have a hard time with the case. And I really don't think the NFL would want that type of publicity and bad rep they'd get from it.

It would be really stupid on their part suing a church.


Yeah, it looks like if you don't charge admission - of course you could have an offering - you will be OK.

But let's say you wanted to test the NFL out and have them sue. They have lawyers on retainer to go after ths kind of thing. They could drag this on in court and make a church bleed just from the legal fees. Not very many churches I know have anti-trust lawyers on retainer. And you think bad publicity is going to bother them? What are you going to do, start watching the CFL? Stop buying what they are selling?

Personally, I don't know why these churches even advertise this sort of thing if they think the NFL will have problems with it. Wouldn't word of mouth in the congregation be enough?

Dom Heffner
02-04-2007, 10:29 AM
Admission and Suggested Donation are two different things right?

Trust me, they don't ever turn down either.

BoydsOfSummer
02-04-2007, 11:14 AM
And the Lord sayeth "Render what is Ceaser's unto NFL properties."

UKFlounder
02-04-2007, 11:23 AM
Personally, I don't know why these churches even advertise this sort of thing if they think the NFL will have problems with it. Wouldn't word of mouth in the congregation be enough?

I don't think anybody thought the NFL would have problems with gathering a large group of people to watch broadcast TV.

Perhaps they wanted to attract some members who do not attend church often, but I doubt they expected the NFL to even notice, much less have a problem.

OnBaseMachine
02-04-2007, 11:27 AM
NFL=No Fun League.

TeamCasey
02-04-2007, 11:59 AM
You'd think they'd want to encourage more interest in the game. I had a friend who has a world series yard party and projects the game on the side of his house.

I wish they'd put the SB on Saturday.

George Anderson
02-04-2007, 12:39 PM
You'd think they'd want to encourage more interest in the game. I had a friend who has a world series yard party and projects the game on the side of his house.

I wish they'd put the SB on Saturday.

Some of the school systems here in indy have taken tomorrow off.

Unassisted
02-04-2007, 03:58 PM
I don't think anybody thought the NFL would have problems with gathering a large group of people to watch broadcast TV.
There's actually some sound reasoning behind this, but the media is portraying the league as being anti-church.

Large groups don't count in the ratings. The NFL wants the game to be on the TV in as many households as possible, since households are measured in the ratings. (If people are watching the game at a big gathering, the TV at home will be turned off and the people in that household won't be counted in the ratings if they have a Nielsen meter at home.) Ratings are what drives the values of the Super Bowl in the TV contract. If the ratings slip, then the $1 billion-plus in this round of TV contracts won't be in the next one.

Rojo
02-04-2007, 05:38 PM
Large groups don't count in the ratings. The NFL wants the game to be on the TV in as many households as possible, since households are measured in the ratings.

Then shouldn't their beef be with A.C. Neilsen.

Unassisted
02-04-2007, 07:27 PM
Then shouldn't their beef be with A.C. Neilsen.

Possibly, but it would be hard to justify using a different ratings methodology for this one event. Advertisers would balk at paying ad rates based on ratings that were gathered with a different methodology. They want to compare apples to apples.

It took over a decade for Nielsen to convert from using paper ratings diaries to electronic people-meters, and that was a change that nearly everyone who used ratings was clamoring for. Change is one thing that the ratings system does not do quickly.

traderumor
02-04-2007, 07:35 PM
Some of the school systems here in indy have taken tomorrow off.:help:

Divine Providence? I guess the morning sermon probably wasn't about worldliness in the church, or the American's idolatry of sports? :evil:

GAC
02-04-2007, 08:22 PM
Personally, I don't know why these churches even advertise this sort of thing if they think the NFL will have problems with it. Wouldn't word of mouth in the congregation be enough?

Most churches do it simply as a fellowship thing for their members to get together and watch a football game. Any freewill offerings that are taken are to pay for the building utilities. Most that I know don't even do that.

Others do it, that is advertise it, as an alternative to the Super Bowls that will be going on all over the place (bars, clubs, etc), where drinking and a more adult atmosphere is present. It's not a place where you want to take your kids.

With churches it's more of a family affair where all can go and participate and have fun. Our church has a family center where there is a pool table, ping pong, and various game activities for the kids, as well as a nursery for the little ones. And did I mention the excellent food that is brought in? ;)


What about all the HUGE Super Bowl parties that are organized in various bars, private clubs, and even private homes? The bars have been advertising them for weeks. And some of them charge an admission fee to get in. Is the NFL going after them?

max venable
02-04-2007, 08:29 PM
Trust me, they don't ever turn down either.

Are you implying that the church should turn down money? Just want to get a little jab in at the church?

Alright. But would anybody else on the face of the earth turn down either?

GAC
02-04-2007, 08:37 PM
There's actually some sound reasoning behind this, but the media is portraying the league as being anti-church.

Large groups don't count in the ratings. The NFL wants the game to be on the TV in as many households as possible, since households are measured in the ratings. (If people are watching the game at a big gathering, the TV at home will be turned off and the people in that household won't be counted in the ratings if they have a Nielsen meter at home.) Ratings are what drives the values of the Super Bowl in the TV contract. If the ratings slip, then the $1 billion-plus in this round of TV contracts won't be in the next one.

Then why aren't they going after all the other Super Bowl parties going on in bars, private clubs, etc., and even homes, where large groups are gathering? How are those counted in the Nielsens?

Chip R
02-04-2007, 09:09 PM
What about all the HUGE Super Bowl parties that are organized in various bars, private clubs, and even private homes? The bars have been advertising them for weeks. And some of them charge an admission fee to get in. Is the NFL going after them?


I totally agree. What's good for the goose... But it seems the NFL says that's OK since they show games every week. But there are dozens of ways to get around that if you're a church. Ask for donations or an offering instead of charging admission. You could show games every week just like the sports bars. If you show it on a little TV and no one comes until Super Sunday when you have the big TV, so be it. Show it on a TV that is just a little less than or right at the maximum size the NFL mandates.

Personally, I think the NFL is worried about nothing. I think the people who go to these churches to watch the Super Bowl wouldn't even constitute a tenth of a rating point if you added them all together.

remdog
02-04-2007, 10:23 PM
The bars have been advertising them for weeks. And some of them charge an admission fee to get in. Is the NFL going after them?

Sports bars are exempt.

Rem

Jpup
02-04-2007, 10:41 PM
Are you implying that the church should turn down money? Just want to get a little jab in at the church?

Alright. But would anybody else on the face of the earth turn down either?

he has an agenda, it's nothing new.

Redsland
02-05-2007, 10:03 AM
Possibly, but it would be hard to justify using a different ratings methodology for this one event. Advertisers would balk at paying ad rates based on ratings that were gathered with a different methodology. They want to compare apples to apples.
Most advertisers place little stock in ratings and the ad rates those ratings are based on. ("NCIS" outpulled "24"? Riiiiiiiight.) A great deal of back office negotiations go on as a result.

Super Bowl ad rates are a welcome exception for advertisers. There's a huge, guaranteed audience of captive viewers who actually want to see the ads. That makes the rate palatable, particularly if you get in early or late, or buy a lot of time, and thereby get a better rate than most.

So, the actual Nielson ratings for the game are mostly irrelevant to advertisers, and will remain so for as long as it's "one of the top-viewed programs" and is welcomed by the public as an advertising showcase.

Yachtzee
02-05-2007, 10:16 AM
Most advertisers place little stock in ratings and the ad rates those ratings are based on. ("NCIS" outpulled "24"? Riiiiiiiight.) A great deal of back office negotiations go on as a result.

Super Bowl ad rates are a welcome exception for advertisers. There's a huge, guaranteed audience of captive viewers who actually want to see the ads. That makes the rate palatable, particularly if you get in early or late, or buy a lot of time, and thereby get a better rate than most.

So, the actual Nielson ratings for the game are mostly irrelevant to advertisers, and will remain so for as long as it's "one of the top-viewed programs" and is welcomed by the public as an advertising showcase.

Unless they make fundamental changes to how Nielsen ratings are calculated, they will become increasingly irrelevant as more people choose to watch TV over the internet at a time and place of their choosing or use Tivo and Slingboxes to give themselves greater flexibility. I rarely watch the shows I enjoy at the times when they are broadcast.

I think the NFL is actually behind the times somewhat when it comes to alternative media, as it currently streams video of its games to fans abroad, but not to US fans. Maybe it has something to do with their TV deals, but I think they need to find a way to get on that.

Roy Tucker
02-05-2007, 10:21 AM
Here's a good article on the issues...

http://www.slate.com/id/2158874/fr/rss/

Johnny Footstool
02-05-2007, 10:23 AM
Yeah, it looks like if you don't charge admission - of course you could have an offering - you will be OK.

But let's say you wanted to test the NFL out and have them sue. They have lawyers on retainer to go after ths kind of thing. They could drag this on in court and make a church bleed just from the legal fees. Not very many churches I know have anti-trust lawyers on retainer. And you think bad publicity is going to bother them? What are you going to do, start watching the CFL? Stop buying what they are selling?

Personally, I don't know why these churches even advertise this sort of thing if they think the NFL will have problems with it. Wouldn't word of mouth in the congregation be enough?

You'd think a church could get pro-bono representation from one of its constituents in a case like this.

At any rate, it would be extremely bad PR for the NFL.

Chip R
02-05-2007, 10:53 AM
You'd think a church could get pro-bono representation from one of its constituents in a case like this.

Perhaps. But that attorney would have to be an expert in antitrust law and willing to donate a great deal of his time and resources to fight the giant that is the NFL. Even if you win, the NFL can tie the case up in appeals for ages.


At any rate, it would be extremely bad PR for the NFL.

Maybe but let's say I have a problem with GM and they are doing something that gives them bad publicity, I don't patronize them any more. I go to Chrysler or Ford or Honda. If the NFL does something I don't like, what am I going to do, start watching the CFL?

Dom Heffner
02-05-2007, 11:38 AM
Are you implying that the church should turn down money? Just want to get a little jab in at the church?But would anybody else on the face of the earth turn down either?

I was merely saying that whether it is a donation or a ticket price, the church would accept the funds either way.


he has an agenda, it's nothing new.

At least I don't take money to forward mine. You get all this for free. :)

registerthis
02-05-2007, 11:59 AM
Maybe but let's say I have a problem with GM and they are doing something that gives them bad publicity, I don't patronize them any more. I go to Chrysler or Ford or Honda. If the NFL does something I don't like, what am I going to do, start watching the CFL?

No, but it could certainly put off advertisers. Don't forget what a large bloc church-going America is. Perhaps the NFL's lawyers could successfully sue, but the cost to the NFL could be astronomical in terms of lost advertising and sposorship revenue, which could conceivably get lost should churches band together on a PR campaign against the NFL. I think the NFL would be utter fools to go after a church for something like this, which is ultimately so petty.

max venable
02-05-2007, 06:10 PM
At least I don't take money to forward mine.

But you wouldn't turn it down either, would you? :)

GAC
02-05-2007, 08:40 PM
I totally agree. What's good for the goose... But it seems the NFL says that's OK since they show games every week.

So the NFL is concerned about churches who do it once a year - that is violating their policy - but don't care about the others who do it every week? :lol:


Show it on a TV that is just a little less than or right at the maximum size the NFL mandates.

Wait a minute! It's only a violation of NFL rules depending on the size of the TV? And the NFL gets to mandate that requirement?

So size does matter! :mooner:

GAC
02-05-2007, 08:42 PM
Sports bars are exempt.

Rem

OK. Every Super Bowl Sunday, every church needs to change their name...

St Peter's Episcopal Sports Bar :mooner:

GAC
02-05-2007, 08:53 PM
Here's a good article on the issues...

http://www.slate.com/id/2158874/fr/rss/

I gleaned this from the example shown in the article concerning in your home....

Josh is in the clear so long as he doesn't take his gigantic TV to a public place, or invite "a substantial number of persons" to his house—more than a normal circle of family and social acquaintances. If he sticks to those rules, his Super Bowl party will be a private display and won't infringe on the rights of the NFL, no matter how big his television.

My neighbor was in violation of that rule! :p:

GAC
02-05-2007, 08:57 PM
Perhaps. But that attorney would have to be an expert in antitrust law and willing to donate a great deal of his time and resources to fight the giant that is the NFL. Even if you win, the NFL can tie the case up in appeals for ages.

Goliath screwed up. He, and his anti-trust lawyer, should have taken David to court. Stupid Philistine! :mooner:

remdog
02-05-2007, 11:58 PM
OK. Every Super Bowl Sunday, every church needs to change their name...

St Peter's Episcopal Sports Bar :mooner:

I like it! That way, when I'm praying at the porcelain alter and moaning , 'Oh God....' I'll know I'm in the right place for that. :beerme:

Rem

GAC
02-06-2007, 08:22 AM
I like it! That way, when I'm praying at the porcelain alter and moaning , 'Oh God....' I'll know I'm in the right place for that. :beerme:

Rem

the only porcelain "altar" in our church is in the bathroom. Is that the same? :mooner:

paintmered
02-06-2007, 08:36 AM
Maybe the game should be switched to Saturday Night? :dunno:

I don't think the morning after should be a Federal holiday. Sorry veterans who made the ultimate sacrifice, but now football players get their day too.

remdog
02-06-2007, 11:26 AM
the only porcelain "altar" in our church is in the bathroom. Is that the same? :mooner:

That would be an affirmative, G-man. ;)

Rem

Gainesville Red
02-06-2007, 10:30 PM
Maybe the game should be switched to Saturday Night? :dunno:



Gotta squeeze every last minute of the weekend ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$) out of all the visitors to the $uper Bowl city. I don't think we'll ever see it on a Saturday night.