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reds44
02-05-2007, 03:58 PM
Wayne Krivsky said the Reds expect to have Eddie Guardado pitching for them this season.

Guardado had Tommy John surgery on Sept. 8, and the typical rehab is a little less than a year. Krvisky said the timetable is usually shorter for a reliever than a starter.

"I’m not into the prediction business, but he’ll be ready at some point in the year," Krivsky said. "Hopefully when he comes back, he’s healthy."

Guardado appeared in 15 games for the Reds, with eight saves and a 1.29 ERA. He was also a bona fide closer for Cincinnati for the short time he was healthy.

The club has an option for 2008 that ranges from $3 million to $7 million, depending on how much he pitches this season. Krivsky said it was very much a sign of the team's interest in Guardado being a long-term part of the team.

Guardado will be in camp in spring training. He probably won't be able to pitch in games in spring training, but he will work out with the team and do his rehabilitation with Reds trainers and help some of the younger pitchers during camp.

Krivsky also said he continues to have talks with Aaron Harang and his people and hopes to avoid arbitration with the pitcher.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

flyer85
02-05-2007, 04:08 PM
WK must have a fetish with over-the-hill relief pitching.

Joseph
02-05-2007, 04:32 PM
WK must have a fetish with over-the-hill relief pitching.

Maybe he's still using his 1996 player guide?

TeamBoone
02-05-2007, 04:43 PM
Eddie pitched well for the Reds last season. If he's healthy, I'm more than happy to have him back.

And.. his enthusiasm is a plus.

Joseph
02-05-2007, 04:47 PM
Eddie pitched well for the Reds last season. If he's healthy, I'm more than happy to have him back.

And.. his enthusiasm is a plus.

You absolutely can't fault his desire and enthusiasm.

flyer85
02-05-2007, 04:51 PM
You absolutely can't fault his desire and enthusiasm.but you can fault a bad shoulder which has still never been repaired. Also TJ surgeries generally have a recovery time of 18-24 months for actually getting back to a prior performance level. EG is nothing more than a shout in the dark, the odds are extremely long in his being useful in 2007.

deltachi8
02-05-2007, 07:22 PM
please take this away from Wayne:


http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0028615123.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

cincinnati chili
02-05-2007, 11:22 PM
Every so often Eddie

edabbs44
02-05-2007, 11:37 PM
"Hopefully when he comes back, he’s healthy."

What does that mean?

KronoRed
02-05-2007, 11:41 PM
What does that mean?

It means Pray.

edabbs44
02-05-2007, 11:43 PM
It means Pray.

...oh yeah we pray.

http://991.com/newgallery/MC-Hammer-Pray-22248.jpg

Heath
02-05-2007, 11:53 PM
but you can fault a bad shoulder which has still never been repaired. Also TJ surgeries generally have a recovery time of 18-24 months for actually getting back to a prior performance level. EG is nothing more than a shout in the dark, the odds are extremely long in his being useful in 2007.

So, why are there 10 posts on a thread about a former MLB-closer who was signed to a non-descript Minor League deal?

:dunno:

I don't see the point of the argument. He didn't sign a 3 yr MLB deal with an option for a fourth. There's nothing here but a transaction note.

edabbs44
02-05-2007, 11:55 PM
So, why are there 10 posts on a thread about a former MLB-closer who was signed to a non-descript Minor League deal?

:dunno:

I don't see the point of the argument. He didn't sign a 3 yr MLB deal with an option for a fourth. There's nothing here but a transaction note.

Because Wayne cannot stop signing relievers.

captainmorgan07
02-05-2007, 11:58 PM
i like the signing hopefully eddie comes back and pitches the way he did last year and his enthusiam and intesity rubs off on a few pitchers on this club

Heath
02-06-2007, 12:19 AM
Because Wayne cannot stop signing relievers.

That's the best you can come up with?

John Scherholz likes utility middle infielders. He's a genius. Walt Jocketty likes washed up starting pitching. He's a world champion. Mark Shapiro likes Outfielders. Billy Beane likes statistical anomoilies.

I like hot dogs with chili and mustard. I eat lots of them.

Big Deal.

edabbs44
02-06-2007, 06:51 AM
That's the best you can come up with?

John Scherholz likes utility middle infielders. He's a genius. Walt Jocketty likes washed up starting pitching. He's a world champion. Mark Shapiro likes Outfielders. Billy Beane likes statistical anomoilies.

I like hot dogs with chili and mustard. I eat lots of them.

Big Deal.

When you have Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux, you can like UT middle IF a little more than the next guy. When you have Pujols and Carpenter, washed up starting pitching might be able to be hidden.

Let me know when the Reds are in a position like that.

Heath
02-06-2007, 08:07 AM
When you have Smoltz, Glavine and Maddux, you can like UT middle IF a little more than the next guy. When you have Pujols and Carpenter, washed up starting pitching might be able to be hidden.

Let me know when the Reds are in a position like that.

Glavine and Maddux are no longer in Atlanta. Pujols and Dunn have been proven to be similar in some statistical categories. Chris Carpenter didn't wake up one morning and become good. He sucked in Toronto.

Yet Scherholz piles up utility IF's and Jocketty surfs the depths of the pitching ocean/

Boss-Hog
02-06-2007, 08:11 AM
Pujols and Dunn have been proven equal is some to many statistical categories.

Just curious, but what noteworthy statistical categories have Pujols and Dunn been proven equal in? I definitely missed that one.

Heath
02-06-2007, 08:16 AM
Just curious, but what noteworthy statistical categories have Pujols and Dunn been proven equal in? I definitely missed that one.

I'd search the archives-I'll have to go to work first before I can come back to play.

edabbs44
02-06-2007, 08:56 AM
Glavine and Maddux are no longer in Atlanta. Pujols and Dunn have been proven equal is some to many statistical categories. Chris Carpenter didn't wake up one morning and become good. He sucked in Toronto.

Yet Scherholz piles up utility IF's and Jocketty surfs the depths of the pitching ocean/

WK, in addition to his famous collection of mediocre middle relievers, has shown a keen interest in utility IFs and catchers as well.

We can rehash this conversation at the all-star break when we see if his moves cause success on this team. My prediction is no and I guess some just cannot see it until it actually takes place on the field, which is fine. I'm more worried about how the future of the team looks, while others on the board are prepared to wait to see if he fails. Which, in my mind, is too late.

edabbs44
02-06-2007, 09:05 AM
Just curious, but what noteworthy statistical categories have Pujols and Dunn been proven equal in? I definitely missed that one.

I think the conversation starts and ends with HRs...but we'll see what other notheworthy stats are produced.

Heath
02-06-2007, 10:08 AM
WK, in addition to his famous collection of mediocre middle relievers, has shown a keen interest in utility IFs and catchers as well.

We can rehash this conversation at the all-star break when we see if his moves cause success on this team. My prediction is no and I guess some just cannot see it until it actually takes place on the field, which is fine. I'm more worried about how the future of the team looks, while others on the board are prepared to wait to see if he fails. Which, in my mind, is too late.

Fine, we agree to disagree.

I was willing to give WayneK more than one year on the job. Throwing him under the bus now is short-sighted. I guess Rome must need to be built in a day around here.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
02-06-2007, 10:17 AM
WK must have a fetish with over-the-hill relief pitching.
IMO he has a fetish with doing what he can to make the team better. Are bullpen was 100 times better as a whole when Eddie was in the closers role. It's a pretty low risk signing for what he may be able to do for us after the all star break. A signing like this shows me that Wayne not only feels that we will be in contention at that point but also that he is willing to take a risk or two to try to get us over the hump. Eddie also can play a big part in helping a guy like Bray or Coffey with developement in both pitching late in the game and with the frame of mind it takes to pitch in the ninth.

edabbs44
02-06-2007, 10:22 AM
Fine, we agree to disagree.

I was willing to give WayneK more than one year on the job. Throwing him under the bus now is short-sighted. I guess Rome must need to be built in a day around here.

I disagree with the plan he is executing, if he actually has one. Giving him more than one year on the job is fine...but all that means is that each day we give him is another day he can set this franchise back.

It might be short-sighted, but before you know it it will be this time next year and the quotes will be "I was willing to give him more than two years."

Rome wasn't built in a day, but it wasn't built without plans either. I know he doesn't need to divulge his masterplan to me or anyone else outside of the organization, but it just seems like he has none. It's like he hears a name and wants to get involved w/o thinking of the rest of the current roster.

Milton, Lohse and Saarloos are the 3-5 pitchers on the team, but yet he is worried about signing a pitcher, coming off TJ who, at best, will be available in the 2nd half.

Griffey will only move out of CF when he deems that someone else in center will be an improvement over him, yet he is worried about a pitcher who was talking retirement last year because of a chronic back problem.

He depleted the lineup for Bray and Maj, traded for Cormier, resigned Weathers, signed Stanton, has Coffey coming back and is still worried enough about the state of the BP that he needs to woo elderly pitchers who could be one pitch from retirement?

WK has spent so much time on this bullpen, it better be airtight.

Heath
02-06-2007, 10:36 AM
I disagree with the plan he is executing, if he actually has one. Giving him more than one year on the job is fine...but all that means is that each day we give him is another day he can set this franchise back. This franchise was set back when Marge Schott bought this team in 1984. After she set fire to the scouting department, the franchise took a turn in the wrong direction. Jim Bowden then loaded up on also-rans and coulda woulda shouldas. To say Krivsky set the franchise back is wrong.


It might be short-sighted, but before you know it it will be this time next year and the quotes will be "I was willing to give him more than two years." Wayne was hired one year ago. One. How was your job performance after one year at a certain job? My job performance after one year was pretty bad, IMO. But, I've worked at the same place now for 7 years. My performance isn't too bad, I'm guessing.


Rome wasn't built in a day, but it wasn't built without plans either. I know he doesn't need to divulge his masterplan to me or anyone else outside of the organization, but it just seems like he has none. It's like he hears a name and wants to get involved w/o thinking of the rest of the current roster. You are right. He doesn't have to go all Rand McNally and map it out for us. He could tell you to pound salt. You read media reports and message boards. You are insuating that you could do his job.


Milton, Lohse and Saarloos are the 3-5 pitchers on the team, but yet he is worried about signing a pitcher, coming off TJ who, at best, will be available in the 2nd half. Worry is not a minor-league deal with an invite to spring training. We've hashed over and over. What other pitchers out there are available to compete for the 3-5 spot? Are we also waiting for Bailey or even Cueto at this stage?


Griffey will only move out of CF when he deems that someone else in center will be an improvement over him, yet he is worried about a pitcher who was talking retirement last year because of a chronic back problem. He's not worried. He's interested. Hermanson had a couple of pretty good years and it was actually done in recent times. Again, its not a long-term deal. It will be another ST invite. I think its you that's worried.


He depleted the lineup for Bray and Maj, traded for Cormier, resigned Weathers, signed Stanton, has Coffey coming back and is still worried enough about the state of the BP that he needs to woo elderly pitchers who could be one pitch from retirement? Ahh, when in doubt, use "The Trade" card.


WK has spent so much time on this bullpen, it better be airtight. Maybe that's the plan. Maybe Salmon and Coutlangus comes out of ST with a job and the other guys are released. That's what spring training is all about.

I think you are making a molehill into the Great Smoky Mountains.

flyer85
02-06-2007, 10:51 AM
Are bullpen was 100 times better as a whole when Eddie was in the closers role. Nothing like "filling the closers role" with a guy who is highly unlikely to pitch effectively at any time during the 2007 season. Hey but call it success if you want.

flyer85
02-06-2007, 10:55 AM
I don't see the point of the argument. He didn't sign a 3 yr MLB deal with an option for a fourth. There's nothing here but a transaction note.He signed a one year deal with an expensive club option. So the Reds are paying some decent cash for the opportunity(which is highly unlikely) to see if he can pitch effectively in 2007. And if he does then the option will likely push his 2008 salary beyond the affordable range.

In addition, the never fixed shoulder issue is still hanging out there.

Seems to me to be what one would characterize as high risk/low reward.

The guy that came to the Reds in 2006 was a shadow of his former self. The 93-94 mph fastball now sitting at 86-88 making his secondary pitches less effective as well. He pitched well for a month but it was likely a fluke as much as anything(as he had been awful in Seattle to that point, a reverse Cormier). In addition he had lingering shoulder issues from 2005 that had never been addressed. Now here in 2007 we have a guy in his late 30's with an unfixed should problem and coming off TJ surgery and yet somehow fans expect him to make a much faster than normal comeback from TJ surgery with a magically healed shoulder. The odds are more than likely that even if he gets back on the mound by July he will struggle with diminished velocity and a loss of command.

Hoping that EG will be effective in 2007 is nothing but blind optimism.

edabbs44
02-06-2007, 11:00 AM
This franchise was set back when Marge Schott bought this team in 1984. After she set fire to the scouting department, the franchise took a turn in the wrong direction. Jim Bowden then loaded up on also-rans and coulda woulda shouldas. To say Krivsky set the franchise back is wrong.
I didn't say that he has already set the franchise back...I said each day he is here he could be setting the franchise back. My point is that two years from now we might look up and say "What just happened?"


Wayne was hired one year ago. One. How was your job performance after one year at a certain job? My job performance after one year was pretty bad, IMO. But, I've worked at the same place now for 7 years. My performance isn't too bad, I'm guessing.
I don't have thousands of fans rooting for my job performance. WK has a little more pressure in that respect.


You are right. He doesn't have to go all Rand McNally and map it out for us. He could tell you to pound salt. You read media reports and message boards. You are insuating that you could do his job.
One of my gripes is that he doesn't appear to have a plan and, in a year's time, no plan has developed. The only plan I can see is that he is collecting spare parts when he needs bigger pieces.


Worry is not a minor-league deal with an invite to spring training. We've hashed over and over. What other pitchers out there are available to compete for the 3-5 spot? Are we also waiting for Bailey or even Cueto at this stage?
This is WK's fence-sitting showing through. Can they win with two above bad pitchers? If not, there's no use trying to build the bullpen and defense.


He's not worried. He's interested. Hermanson had a couple of pretty good years and it was actually done in recent times. Again, its not a long-term deal. It will be another ST invite. I think its you that's worried.
I am worried. Worried that WK has spent approximately 82% of his time as GM acquiring relievers.


Ahh, when in doubt, use "The Trade" card.
Didn't use the trade card. I wanted to show what he has done with the BP already.


Maybe that's the plan. Maybe Salmon and Coutlangus comes out of ST with a job and the other guys are released. That's what spring training is all about.
Who's released? Stanton? Cormier? Weathers? Belisle? Coffey?


I think you are making a molehill into the Great Smoky Mountains.

We shall see.

Heath
02-06-2007, 11:08 AM
He signed a one year deal with an expensive club option. So the Reds are paying some decent cash for the opportunity(which is highly unlikely) to see if he can pitch effectively in 2007. And if he does then the option will likely push his 2008 salary beyond the affordable range.

In addition, the never fixed shoulder issue is still hanging out there.

Seems to me to be what one would characterize as high risk/low reward.

The guy that came to the Reds in 2006 was a shadow of his former self. The 93-94 mph fastball now sitting at 86-88 making his secondary pitches less effective as well. He pitched well for a month but it was likely a fluke as much as anything(as he had been awful in Seattle to that point, a reverse Cormier). In addition he had lingering shoulder issues from 2005 that had never been addressed. Now here in 2007 we have a guy in his late 30's with an unfixed should problem and coming off TJ surgery and yet somehow fans expect him to make a much faster than normal comeback from TJ surgery with a magically healed shoulder. The odds are more than likely that even if he gets back on the mound by July he will struggle with diminished velocity and a loss of command.

Hoping that EG will be effective in 2007 is nothing but blind optimism.

It's an OPTION. It's not a GUARANTEE. He has a MINOR LEAGUE CONTRACT. If he makes it, great, if not, he's done. Toast. Gone.

Too much thinking about a miniscule deal.

flyer85
02-06-2007, 11:15 AM
It's an OPTION. It's not a GUARANTEE. He has a MINOR LEAGUE CONTRACT. If he makes it, great, if not, he's done. Toast. Gone.

Too much thinking about a miniscule deal.The issue is the pattern that I see. WK is continually paying to take chances where there is no payoff(Cormier, Weathers, Stanton, Conine, Moeller, Crosby).In the end WK has thrown a sizeable bit of cash around on wonderfully useless over-the-hill types with seemingly no end in sight instead of actually trying to acquire useful parts.

What scares me is that every time he does this it just bolsters the uneasy feeling that he is simply in over his head and has no idea actually how to fix the problems that have existed for so long in this downtrodden organization. And all this after such a promising start when he was making the right kind of deals. And as those good deals sink farther out of sight the probability that were nothing more than random good fortune grows larger.

In contrast look at what Schuerholz did this off-season to rebuild his bullpen. He actually acquired two young relatively inexpensive bat missing relievers with dominating stuff(exactly the opposite of what the Reds have been wasting their time on).

Heath
02-06-2007, 11:21 AM
I didn't say that he has already set the franchise back...I said each day he is here he could be setting the franchise back. My point is that two years from now we might look up and say "What just happened?"
The franchise has already been set back, was my point. WayneK has done nothing to worsen something that's already pretty lousy. You are saying that after one year, WayneK better improve dramatically. That's not being realistic.


I don't have thousands of fans rooting for my job performance. WK has a little more pressure in that respect.
You better have some pressure at work. You have a family to support? Do you have bills to pay? What happens when you are unemployed and you can't support your family? You better have people rooting for your job performance. All Wayne has is a job that you'd wish you could have (I know I would like his job!) for an entertainment activity.


One of my gripes is that he doesn't appear to have a plan and, in a year's time, no plan has developed. The only plan I can see is that he is collecting spare parts when he needs bigger pieces.

Looking at the past free agents out there, I'm not sure what could have helped at what the Reds could acquire. And by, could acquire, I'm talking about players who want to come to Cincinnati. I think the pitching was totally overvalued this winter.


This is WK's fence-sitting showing through. Can they win with two above bad pitchers? If not, there's no use trying to build the bullpen and defense. I am worried. Worried that WK has spent approximately 82% of his time as GM acquiring relievers.

You need a hobby if you are worried about Krvisky's reliever fetish. Winter Months will do that to you.



Didn't use the trade card. I wanted to show what he has done with the BP already.

You did use the trade card. You brought it up didn't you?



Who's released? Stanton? Cormier? Weathers? Belisle? Coffey?

There could be a trade, you never know. But a trade may send this board into septic shock.


We shall see.

We shall, shall we?

M2
02-06-2007, 11:29 AM
but you can fault a bad shoulder which has still never been repaired. Also TJ surgeries generally have a recovery time of 18-24 months for actually getting back to a prior performance level. EG is nothing more than a shout in the dark, the odds are extremely long in his being useful in 2007.

Exactly. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single pitcher who came back successfully from TJ surgery in 9-10 months. Add in Eddie's shoulder, with which he'll be overcompensating if he tries that quick a rehab, and his odds get longer.

PuffyPig
02-06-2007, 11:38 AM
In contrast look at what Schuerholz did this off-season to rebuild his bullpen. He actually acquired two young relatively inexpensive bat missing relievers with dominating stuff(exactly the opposite of what the Reds have been wasting their time on).

You are right, but the cost was pretty high. We simply didn't have the trading chips to make those kind of deals.

(Cue to comments about Kearns/Lopez).

dfs
02-06-2007, 11:39 AM
You know....I can understand what Wayne is thinking here. I've got a "legitimate closer" in the fold. He's a proven lefty just like my manager likes. Low cost on the contract. Doesn't even cost me a roster spot till he's ready to go. No risk on my end at all. Sure. Come to spring training and hang out with Paul Wilson. Then do re-hab and if the season goes well and your rehap looks good we plug you in come June....

As usual, I'm not sure I agree with Wayne, but I can see what he is thinking.


What in the name of Eddie Milner is Guardado thinking? I mean...exactly who advised him on this?

What does the reds track record on rehabilitating pitchers look like?

It's terrible. I mean absolutely atrocious.

Exactly how many left handed relievers do the reds already have?

Tons, enough that folks are already mentioning them as targets for teams that need lefties.

Who on the reds coaching staff does Eddie know and trust?

Nobody. It's a new pitching coach. A bullpen coach that overseen the worst string of pens the reds have had in my lifetime and a manager that seems intent on running pretty much everybody out of town.

Why the rush? He's gonna be 36. If he takes care of himself and finds the right role, he'll be able to pitch till he's 40. You usually take a year and a half to fully come back from something like this, and this character is pressing to come back by June 18?

Why? What does he have to gain by signing this contract? If he falls on his face during re-hab, he's not gonna get owed anything but a few hundred k. Eddie's made 16 million dollars in the last three years. If he takes the whole year off to rehab and then goes on the free agent market next year....he can still sign this kind of deal.

If everything comes together for him. Through some miracle of the healing powers of the Ohio, he starts pitching in June, goes all Rivera on the league and the team has a story book year and he closes out the 7th game of the World series....he's now signed for 7 million for next year. Where is his upside?

I really don't understand the signing from Guardado's point of view. Frankly, it looks stupid.

flyer85
02-06-2007, 11:46 AM
You are right, but the cost was pretty high. We simply didn't have the trading chips to make those kind of deals. I think not in the Braves eyes. They dealt a soft tossing oft injured lefty who wasn't very good even when healthy and a first basemen who has had a sum total of 1/2 a good season. They gave up a lot less than the Reds did in "the trade". Plus Schuerholz had a track record that says that generally he is right about who to trade and who to keep. Look at the difference in the stiffs he gave up for Hudson(the better pitcher of the two) versus actually what Jocketty traded away for Mulder.

PuffyPig
02-06-2007, 02:37 PM
Look at the difference in the stiffs he gave up for Hudson(the better pitcher of the two) versus actually what Jocketty traded away for Mulder.

I'd agrue that even though Hudson was a better pitcher than Mulder (at the time), Mulder had more trade value as he was two years from FA, Hudson was one. In terms of trade value, that makes quite a difference.

I hear what you are saying about what the Braves gave up, but (1) any competent starter is worth his weight in gold these days, even soft tossing LH ones; and (2) LaRoache had a monster second half, vs, the often inured Gonzalez.

Gonzalez and Soriano have high upside, but each is very risky. It's not like the Braves picked up a couple of sure things. They have the higher updise, but also the lower downside.

flyer85
02-06-2007, 03:48 PM
(1) any competent starter is worth his weight in gold these days, even soft tossing LH ones; BTW, PECOTA sees Horacio Ramirez as being of little value(< 5 VORP) for the next 5 years. Much less than Soriano, Gonzalez and even the Reds Majewski and Bray. Elizardo Ramirez will have a lot more value than Horacio, according to PECOTA.

Also from BP's Silver today

The work I did on freely available talent last year suggests that it’s quite a bit easier to find an adequate first baseman for next to nothing than it is an adequate corner outfielder.

flyer85
02-06-2007, 03:58 PM
from BP today


1. Joey Votto, Reds (23) 105.3

Votto had an essentially flawless year at Chattanooga. He hit for power, average, and walks, radically improved his defense, and even managed to steal 24 bases. Better still, he did all this in his first exposure to Double-A, in a neutral ballpark in the pitching-friendly Southern League. There’s no way you can contort that performance without acknowledging that Votto has a good chance of being a good major league player.

Even so, Votto only barely qualifies for ‘excellent’ prospect status, just creeping in over the century mark with a 105.3 rating. Some of this is for the obvious reason that Votto’s performance heading into 2006 wasn’t so impressive. The bigger issue is that PECOTA doesn’t expect Votto to get a lot better; it credits him with a small spike in his age-27 season, but otherwise his development curve is very flat. Look to his comparables and you’ll get some sense of the reason why; a number of those players either qualified as abject disappointments (Carlos Pena, Hee-Seop Choi, Eric Hinske, Dallas McPherson, Jeremy Giambi), or perhaps got a little better, but didn’t quite live up to All-Star expectations (Brad Wilkerson and probably Pat Burrell). There are exceptions, certainly; it’s hard to find two better hitters than Travis Hafner and Lance Berkman, who also make Votto’s comp list. But these “old players’ skills”--and that’s what Votto has, his stolen base spike to the contrary--have a fairly high incidence of burning twice as bright but for half as long.

There may even be something about the dynamics of the first base position that makes life harder for these players. The standards at the position are very high, so guys like Pena and Choi that struggled at the outset wound up getting jerked around quite a lot. Being jerked around is not one of those things that we can quantify, but it can’t be good for a player’s development. The Reds, for their part, are well positioned to commit their next 2000 PA at first base to Votto, and see whether one of those Hafner or Berkman scenarios comes up on the die.

Puffy
02-06-2007, 04:58 PM
Just curious, but what noteworthy statistical categories have Pujols and Dunn been proven equal in? I definitely missed that one.

Height?
Weight?
playstation's Tiger Woods golf?

Geez Boss - where have you been?

:mooner:

Chip R
02-06-2007, 07:45 PM
You know....I can understand what Wayne is thinking here. I've got a "legitimate closer" in the fold. He's a proven lefty just like my manager likes. Low cost on the contract. Doesn't even cost me a roster spot till he's ready to go. No risk on my end at all. Sure. Come to spring training and hang out with Paul Wilson. Then do re-hab and if the season goes well and your rehap looks good we plug you in come June....

As usual, I'm not sure I agree with Wayne, but I can see what he is thinking.


What in the name of Eddie Milner is Guardado thinking? I mean...exactly who advised him on this?

What does the reds track record on rehabilitating pitchers look like?

It's terrible. I mean absolutely atrocious.

Exactly how many left handed relievers do the reds already have?

Tons, enough that folks are already mentioning them as targets for teams that need lefties.

Who on the reds coaching staff does Eddie know and trust?

Nobody. It's a new pitching coach. A bullpen coach that overseen the worst string of pens the reds have had in my lifetime and a manager that seems intent on running pretty much everybody out of town.

Why the rush? He's gonna be 36. If he takes care of himself and finds the right role, he'll be able to pitch till he's 40. You usually take a year and a half to fully come back from something like this, and this character is pressing to come back by June 18?

Why? What does he have to gain by signing this contract? If he falls on his face during re-hab, he's not gonna get owed anything but a few hundred k. Eddie's made 16 million dollars in the last three years. If he takes the whole year off to rehab and then goes on the free agent market next year....he can still sign this kind of deal.

If everything comes together for him. Through some miracle of the healing powers of the Ohio, he starts pitching in June, goes all Rivera on the league and the team has a story book year and he closes out the 7th game of the World series....he's now signed for 7 million for next year. Where is his upside?

I really don't understand the signing from Guardado's point of view. Frankly, it looks stupid.


What's to understand? He gets a minimum of $500K for rehabbing. If someone asked me if I could rehab for nothing, on my own or I could get paid $500K at least for it under the direction of professionals, it'd be a real tough choice but I think I'd take the latter deal.

dfs
02-06-2007, 08:25 PM
What's to understand? He gets a minimum of $500K for rehabbing. If someone asked me if I could rehab for nothing, on my own or I could get paid $500K at least for it under the direction of professionals, it'd be a real tough choice but I think I'd take the latter deal.

Given that the guy is going to be 36, he might have 3 or 4 decent years left in him if he fully recovers, but now instead of allowing his body the full time it will need to recover, he's going to be out there trying to come back early and pitch by June 18th in order to maximize the incentives on this contract? That seems....well, it seems beyond foolish to me.

Sit down Eddie. Take the year off. Use some of that 16 million you earned the last three years in order to make yourself, what you were. You do that...teams will come knocking at your door next year and you've got 3-4 more years of 2+ million dollar contracts coming your way.

Better yet, you do that and are really ready to pitch in front of scouts in mid-june and how many teams do you think will come calling? They'll beat the darned door down. What do you think a playoff contender with a weak bullpen will PAY for the rights to an arm that they can sign for money instead of giving up talent for? A little more than 500k. That's for sure. Four times that easy.