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RadioWink
02-08-2007, 11:00 AM
per offical release from the Reds.

CINCINNATI - The Cincinnati Reds and All-Star RHP Bronson Arroyo have agreed to terms on a 2-year contract extension through the 2010 season with a club option for 2011.

Heath
02-08-2007, 11:01 AM
$$ ??? or are we stuck with Terms Not Disclosed.

RadioWink
02-08-2007, 11:01 AM
pending... presser at 12:30 pm.

edabbs44
02-08-2007, 11:02 AM
I'm not as big of a fan of this one as the Harang move....depends a lot on the money.

redsfan30
02-08-2007, 11:05 AM
I'm not sure now is the right time for an extention. It does, however put an end to the "he will leave here for Boston as soon as he can" talk.

Heath
02-08-2007, 11:06 AM
It's on Reds.com and I posted the release on ORG.

I need to know $$, I'm afraid.

Caveman Techie
02-08-2007, 11:08 AM
This could be very good....or very bad depending on the $$.

redsfan30
02-08-2007, 11:10 AM
This is, on the other hand, a very good indicator of where this franchise is going. Bronson does not seem like a guy who's going to stick around through bad years. He's a guy who wants to win now because that's what he was used to in Boston.

Wayne Krivsky and Bob Castellini did a good job selling, and Bronson bought. That's a good sign.

Always Red
02-08-2007, 11:15 AM
No, this is good, all good. :thumbup:

Castellini is making good on his promise, and he's spending the $ on guys who have produced, guys whom we want to remain here. And they're PITCHERS!! ;)

For Arroyo's part, it looks like he decided Cincinnati suits him just fine.:)

Truly, I don't care about the money. I'd rather spend it on a known like Arroyo than Meche or Lilly. Salaries are only going to continue to rise. I certainly do not expect Arroyo to have another year like he did last year: if he does, it's a bonus. I expect him to be a 12-15 game winner, and throw over 200 innings every year. Arroyo's got a rubber arm, and he should be good for staying off the DL, as long as his rubber arm doesn't get abused.

I'm excited for the future.

Now, WK needs to bring in a RH bat...oh, and a closer. ;)

Bobcat J
02-08-2007, 11:15 AM
For the next four years, including the buyout, the deal is for $33 million. The extension added $25 million in new money.

We basically paid $12.5 million/year for the two extra years.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070208/SPT04/302080023

Caveman Techie
02-08-2007, 11:18 AM
Please don't get me wrong I'm glad Bronson will be here for a few more years. Especially if he is able to maintain his current level of production. Man can you imagine if Homer delivers on his promise, a rotation of:

Harang
Arroyo
Bailey
warm body
slightly cold body
;)

Caveman Techie
02-08-2007, 11:19 AM
For the next four years, including the buyout, the deal is for $33 million. The extension added $25 million in new money.

We basically paid $12.5 million/year for the two extra years.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070208/SPT04/302080023

If this is the right numbers then that is an awesome deal for the Reds. Way to go :beerme:

HalMorrisRules
02-08-2007, 11:21 AM
I'm not sure now is the right time for an extention. It does, however put an end to the "he will leave here for Boston as soon as he can" talk.

Include me in the group that is shocked by this. I honestly thought Bronson would never be shaken from a big city mentality and be willing to stay here beyond his 2 year commitment that he had left over from his Boston contract. But I am also very happy that he is willing to stay here. He may or may not be as successful in the coming years as he was this year but that doesnt take away from the idea that he signed this extension when his value is at the highest and his big city dreams would also be at their highest. I wonder who instigated this? Did he do it after the Harang singing?

savafan
02-08-2007, 11:21 AM
Wait, are we sure we're talking about the Cincinnati Reds? What's going on down by the river?

HotCorner
02-08-2007, 11:21 AM
Happy day! :thumbup:

savafan
02-08-2007, 11:23 AM
I wonder what the reaction is at SOSH?

dougdirt
02-08-2007, 11:23 AM
Wait, are we sure we're talking about the Cincinnati Reds? What's going on down by the river?

There must be something in the water....:thumbup:

lollipopcurve
02-08-2007, 11:28 AM
very nice -- the team is building around pitching -- makes a lot of sense, and it's the first time in my lifetime it's been a pitching-first franchise -- wow

BRM
02-08-2007, 11:29 AM
I can live with this. I thought they'd wait until after this season to try to extend him though.

forfreelin04
02-08-2007, 11:30 AM
Color me impressed! I guess Bronson thinks being the "man" in Cincy is better then being one of the "idiots" in Boston. Course the money doesn't hurt either.

I think Bronson was really more upset about leaving a place he called home rather then just because it was Boston. I think he's found some serious acceptance in Cincy and now feels like it can be his new home. Congrats to WayneK, Bronson, Aaron yesterday, and to all Reds fans looking forward to the hopefully great seasons to come!

forfreelin04
02-08-2007, 11:31 AM
very nice -- the team is building around pitching -- makes a lot of sense, and it's the first time in my lifetime it's been a pitching-first franchise -- wow

Building around Pitching in Cincinnati!!! The 'White Death" musta scared everyone straight, finally!

RedEye
02-08-2007, 11:32 AM
very nice -- the team is building around pitching -- makes a lot of sense, and it's the first time in my lifetime it's been a pitching-first franchise -- wow

Now if we could just move those outfield walls back a bit...

MartyFan
02-08-2007, 11:35 AM
AWESOME DEAL!!!

Does anyone know when the Press Conference is?

forfreelin04
02-08-2007, 11:36 AM
AWESOME DEAL!!!

Does anyone know when the Press Conference is?

According to Reds.com, 12:30

Chip R
02-08-2007, 11:38 AM
I wonder what the reaction is at SOSH?


They probably kicked him out. ;)

Red Leader
02-08-2007, 11:41 AM
They probably kicked him out. ;)

Yeah, I bet Curt Schilling is going to start a thread on it so he can let everyone knows what he thinks about it...

They'll probably interview him on ESPN.

bucksfan2
02-08-2007, 11:42 AM
I know both Harang and Arroyo wern't free agents when their deals were extended but I give major props to Krivsky. In the past both extentions and fa signings the reds spent foolishly. These two deals are both very good deals and were probably done for under market value.

Red Leader
02-08-2007, 11:46 AM
I know both Harang and Arroyo wern't free agents when their deals were extended but I give major props to Krivsky. In the past both extentions and fa signings the reds spent foolishly. These two deals are both very good deals and were probably done for under market value.

I agree. Both of these moves allow them to have piece of mind that they are going to have decent starting pitching at a fixed cost. Because the contracts are reasonable, it allows them to spend money on other parts of the team to shore up weaknesses. They didn't break the bank with these two moves. That's why I think both of these moves are great deals. If they would have overspent retaining both of these guys, I wouldn't have been as happy about them. Things are looking pretty good.

bucksfan
02-08-2007, 11:49 AM
Given recent SP price trends, Arroyo's and Harang's deals sure seem extremely solid for the Reds organization. I know 4 yrs for apitcher carries a weight of risk, but IMO you don't get the dea like this without some risk, and it's a risk I am glad the Reds took.

dsmith421
02-08-2007, 11:53 AM
I think Bronson was really more upset about leaving a place he called home rather then just because it was Boston. I think he's found some serious acceptance in Cincy and now feels like it can be his new home.

I agree. The vast majority of us never have to face a situation where we build a professional and personal reputation in one community and then, through no choice of our own, have to completely start over. There's bound to be some trepidation at first. But Arroyo has been nothing but good for the city and the franchise since coming over.

I hate being a jinx, but with Harang, Arroyo and Bailey all locked up into the next decade, there's a championship window starting to crack open here. Solidify the offense, get Milton and Griffey off the books, and we could be on to something.

In any event, it makes 2007 feel like less a status quo season than an appetizer of what's to come.

Always Red
02-08-2007, 12:01 PM
I hate being a jinx, but with Harang, Arroyo and Bailey all locked up into the next decade, there's a championship window starting to crack open here. Solidify the offense, get Milton and Griffey off the books, and we could be on to something.



No problem; I'm enjoying seeing some optimism around here the last few days; it's OK to talk about wanting to win a championship again without being laughed at!

maniem
02-08-2007, 12:02 PM
It's a good feeling knowing you have 2 solid pitchers to build a rotation around for the next four years. This is something this team has been missing for a long long time. Remember just a few years ago when the only decent option the Reds had in the rotation was Elmer Dessens? Remember when Luke Hudson and Jose Acevedo were being counted on as being solid #3 starters after both only had decent September stints? Now the Reds have arguably 2 of the better pitchers in the league with another on his way next year. The pitching situation is finally starting to solidify. Acquire a RH power bat, and this team might be a solid contender for the next few years.

CRedsLarkin11
02-08-2007, 12:04 PM
I'm really impressed, who knows if Arroyo can keep up the standard that he set for himself last season but I'm more impressed because it looks like Harang's signing did more than just give us a #1 starter for years to come, it suddenly looks like players want to play in Cincinnati.

RedsManRick
02-08-2007, 12:06 PM
I made the argument on other threads that this was THE leverage time with both these guys. Because they are both in their primes, we're not "making a run" this year, and they gain leverage in 2008, this is the year to either sign them or deal them for maximum value. I was advocating signing Harang and dealing Arroyo -- but that was because I didn't Arroyo WOULD sign. Major kudos to Krivsky.

pedro
02-08-2007, 12:07 PM
I'm really impressed, who knows if Arroyo can keep up the standard that he set for himself last season but I'm more impressed because it looks like Harang's signing did more than just give us a #1 starter for years to come, it suddenly looks like players want to play in Cincinnati.

Today's buzz phrase: The culture of competency is contagious.

DaReds22
02-08-2007, 12:14 PM
I think that is a huge signing, the Reds havent had two good pitchers in their rotoation since the early ninties. So for them to lock up both of their pitchers is a huge deal to me.

George Anderson
02-08-2007, 12:15 PM
I gotta admit I was in the camp that thought for sure Arroyo would be gone once his contract was up. I guess signing Harang yesterday showed Arroyo the reds are serious about winning!!! I'm rarely wrong but man this time I am glad I was!!!:beerme:

oneupper
02-08-2007, 12:18 PM
Am I crazy to not like this deal?

I'm fine with Arroyo, but we had him cheap for two more years. $25 mm for two extra "out" years on a pitcher like him seems steep. I don't think we can consider him an "ace".

Without this extension, Arroyo's trade value was huge. Now not so much.

I just hope it works out.

shredda2000
02-08-2007, 12:19 PM
I think that is a huge signing, the Reds havent had two good pitchers in their rotoation since the early ninties. So for them to lock up both of their pitchers is a huge deal to me.


And just think...it may entice a few good free agents to come play in Cincinnati after the 2007 season!!!

Caveman Techie
02-08-2007, 12:24 PM
I didn't catch it before, but there is an 11 million dollar 3rd year club option on this contract also with a 2 million dollar buyout. So if things are going well the Reds control him for five years.

redsmetz
02-08-2007, 12:24 PM
Am I crazy to not like this deal?

I'm fine with Arroyo, but we had him cheap for two more years. $25 mm for two extra "out" years on a pitcher like him seems steep. I don't think we can consider him an "ace".

Without this extension, Arroyo's trade value was huge. Now not so much.

I just hope it works out.

Given the current frenzy of increasingly high salaries for pitchers, if the contract's structured like Harang's (option changes to mutual and buyout goes up, IIRC), this is still a tradeable contract. I think, though, that it shows managements commitment to the long-term.

AdamDunn
02-08-2007, 12:25 PM
I'm in favor of this (I mean, no duh).
However, this is high risk, high reward. It really depends on this season. We'll see if last year was a fluke or not. I don't think it was, but you never know. Either way, it's a lot better than spending $11 million/year for a guy like Meche

terminator
02-08-2007, 12:30 PM
The biggest risk is injury risk IMHO. He had a 4.03 and 4.51 ERA in Boston, so even if he reverted to that level he'd still be worth it in light of the Meche's and Lilly's of the pitching world.

I like the extension. This is the first time we've had two pitchers this good in many, many years, so it's nice to see that the Reds will have a chance to build around them.

Now that we have him signed for 4 years someone needs to let Narron know that he shouldn't be throwing 240 innings again this year.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
02-08-2007, 12:30 PM
I'm in favor of this (I mean, no duh).
However, this is high risk, high reward. It really depends on this season. We'll see if last year was a fluke or not. I don't think it was, but you never know. Either way, it's a lot better than spending $11 million/year for a guy like Meche
No doubt, even if he regresses a little bit he will still be a very solid #3. If Homer lives up to the billing this is a huge deal. If he stays at the same level we will IMO have one of if not the top 1,2,3 in the bigs. I think this year will be big for Bronson, and he doesn't throw alot of fastballs so age shouldn't affect him in the long run like it would a flame-thrower who relies on a fastball.

Krusty
02-08-2007, 12:33 PM
One heck of a week by Castanelli and Krivsky. They locked up their top two starters for four years and prices below what mediocre starters like Ted Lilly, Gil Meche, Adam Eaton and Padilla are getting.

The Reds are making a commitment to winning despite what some posters might be saying here. You win with pitching and defense and the Reds have done this so far this offseason. While many get upset with the signings of Stanton, Weathers and Conine, let's remember they are role players and not the core of this club. Signing Harang and Arroyo is the core to the pitching staff and when you add the likes of Homer Bailey, the Reds should have a solid rotation for years to come.

cincy09
02-08-2007, 12:38 PM
WOW, I get home and what do I see?

Great Fantastic Wonderful News !!!

NatiRedGals
02-08-2007, 12:45 PM
Ouch... lol The 2nd question Bronson what made you change your mind i mean a few times last year you said you miss boston.. lol

Northern Dancer
02-08-2007, 12:50 PM
I can't really add to anything that's already been said, but this is definitely exciting news. It really speaks more about the commitment of the new ownership than anything else. If this continues, the years to come will be really exciting, especially if Bailey blossoms into a solid SP and the team is determined to keep him in the fold.

BRM
02-08-2007, 12:52 PM
The Reds are making a commitment to winning despite what some posters might be saying here. You win with pitching and defense and the Reds have done this so far this offseason.

Well, the defensive improvements this offseason are a grand total of one player but I get what you are saying. I'm not convinced the pitching is all that improved for 2007 but I do hope Saarloos, Santos, or EZ step up big and help solidify the rotation. I do really like the extension to Arroyo though.

savafan
02-08-2007, 12:54 PM
This is the first time we've had two pitchers this good in many, many years, so it's nice to see that the Reds will have a chance to build around them.



I'd say since Rijo and Browning.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
02-08-2007, 12:54 PM
Ouch... lol The 2nd question Bronson what made you change your mind i mean a few times last year you said you miss boston.. lol
I guess this answers the question: If the money is right will big names stay in Cinci. Maybe it's time to try to get Man Ram from boston. With Harrang and Arroyo locked up we can afford to deal some pitching prospects.

Jaycint
02-08-2007, 12:56 PM
If he stays at the same level we will IMO have one of if not the top 1,2,3 in the bigs.

I initially went depth chart diving across baseball to see if I could shoot holes in this statement but the more I looked around the more it hit home just how nice (and rare) it is to have two workhorse type guys at the front of the rotation and a highly touted prospect knocking on the door.

I think the Angels are sitting pretty with Lackey, Santana and Weaver at the top of the rotation.

gonelong
02-08-2007, 12:57 PM
Nice. That gives us two legitimate pitchers for the near future with a possible 3rd coming soon enough.

GL

BRM
02-08-2007, 12:58 PM
As M2 already pointed out in the ORG thread, this extends the competitive window out to 2010. This allows them to do the right thing with guys like Bailey and Cueto. No need to rush them.

topsyt
02-08-2007, 01:00 PM
Given the recent market Bob and Wayne are looking very competent right now.
With Homer on the horizon we are solid in 3 of 5. Only need two of the present stockpile of arms to be competitive and we deal the rest. We're having fun now
and didn't see it coming!

edabbs44
02-08-2007, 01:00 PM
I initially went depth chart diving across baseball to see if I could shoot holes in this statement but the more I looked around the more it hit home just how nice (and rare) it is to have two workhorse type guys at the front of the rotation and a highly touted prospect knocking on the door.

I think the Angels are sitting pretty with Lackey, Santana and Weaver at the top of the rotation.

Bonderman, Verlander, Miller, Zumaya(?) looks nice as well.

RedsFan8978
02-08-2007, 01:01 PM
An unexpected move, IMO, but a great one! Wayne is proving himself as a great contract negotiator!

TheWalls
02-08-2007, 01:02 PM
I believe the window of opportunity for this group has now been clearly defined. Unless something changes, the top of the rotation is set (Arroyo, Harang, Bailey), the bullpen has some young promising arms (Coffey, Bray), the offense has promising youngsters (EdE, BP, DRoss), the minors offer some hope (Votto, Loo and the young OF), and we shed some contracts during this time that give more flexibility (Milton, Jr???). I couldn't be more excited about watching this teams continued evolution.

Jaycint
02-08-2007, 01:05 PM
Bonderman, Verlander, Miller, Zumaya(?) looks nice as well.

Agreed. I like the potential that the Marlins rotation has as well with Josh Johnson, Anibal Sanchez and Scott Olsen all being around 23 yrs old. Funny to think Dontrelle is the wisened old vet at the ripe old age of 25.

fewfirstchoice
02-08-2007, 01:07 PM
Clap...clapclap....clapclap......CLAP......great 2 signing in the past week.

blumj
02-08-2007, 01:07 PM
I think people forget. Bronson made it through waivers from the Pirates through the entire NL and all through most of the AL to the Red Sox, a top 5 AL team at the time, he then cleared waivers in the spring so he could be sent to AAA for most of that season, and the Red Sox themselves had so much faith in his ability that they traded one of their top prospects for Jeff Suppan, when they could have promoted Bronson instead. It took Suppan and Ramiro Mendoza performing poorly for them to even give Bronson a chance in the bullpen, it took BK Kim's failure as a starter to get him into their rotation, and it took Wade Miller's failure to come back from his injury to keep him there. He was an inch away from never getting another chance in MLB at all several times, an inch away from a career as a middle reliever several times. Getting any return at all on their investment in him was a huge long shot for the Red Sox, and Arroyo ever getting a sniff at a contract like this was a ridiculous long shot for him. A deal like this? I'd imagine he probably feels like most of us would if we won the lottery. And he can afford to go visit Boston or anywhere else he wants whenever he has the time.

ChatterRed
02-08-2007, 01:09 PM
Alright, let's trade for Dontrelle Willis and then I'll be happy.



JUST KIDDING.

Great move. Didn't see it coming. Was hoping they'd do something to convince Bronson to stay and obviously they did. I can't remember the last time the Reds had a rotation that looked legit.

remdog
02-08-2007, 01:12 PM
As I posted on ORG:

Good move but not a great move.

First of all, kudos to Krivsky for being proactive in retaining his own players. This will help players understand that if they produce management will be aggressive about rewarding them. Long-term result : good.

OTOH, this does nothing about '07 except to make me think that the Reds are 'mailing it in' and hoping for a long-shot cindarella season by 6-8 guys. The two signings add no one on the field this year that wouldn't have been there anyway. Short-term result: not so good.

IMO, this pretty much says that the plan is not to rush Homer. With Harang and BA tied up for 4 years the Reds can afford to do things right with Bailey. Short and long-term result: good.

Of course, if the Reds tank early and Arroyo reverts to pre-'06 form, it will make moving him at the trade deadline that much tougher. Short-term result: not so good.

All in all, an OK move for the short-term, a better move for the long-term.

Rem

dunner13
02-08-2007, 01:20 PM
I was starting to think that Bob C. was cheap and not willing to spend money, but it looks like hes willing to spend the money just not on overpriced free agents. Im much happier with signing harang and arroyo long term then I would have been if we hadnt signed them and we had spent 55 million on Meche or 40 Million on Lilly. I like the way that Bob C and Wayne are building this team and although we may not be great in 07 this gives me alot of hope for the next four years.

Tom Servo
02-08-2007, 01:26 PM
Wow, this is a shocker. I actually did figure we could end up getting Bronson to stay, I didn't think it would happen right after locking up Harang. Good move, WayneK. :beerme:

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
02-08-2007, 01:32 PM
As I posted on ORG:

Good move but not a great move.

First of all, kudos to Krivsky for being proactive in retaining his own players. This will help players understand that if they produce management will be aggressive about rewarding them. Long-term result : good.

OTOH, this does nothing about '07 except to make me think that the Reds are 'mailing it in' and hoping for a long-shot cindarella season by 6-8 guys. The two signings add no one on the field this year that wouldn't have been there anyway. Short-term result: not so good.

IMO, this pretty much says that the plan is not to rush Homer. With Harang and BA tied up for 4 years the Reds can afford to do things right with Bailey. Short and long-term result: good.

Of course, if the Reds tank early and Arroyo reverts to pre-'06 form, it will make moving him at the trade deadline that much tougher. Short-term result: not so good.

All in all, an OK move for the short-term, a better move for the long-term.

Rem
Not sure if this has much to do with Homer at all. It could mean the opposite. If Wayne feels that Homer is a solid 3 or 4 right now he probably feels pretty good about his 07 staff. IMO Homer is going to be a real good 4 or 5 to start out and will only get better as the season goes on.

noskill27
02-08-2007, 01:34 PM
This is just awesome. Glad to see we won't lose Arroyo to Boston after the '08 season.

It's almost the same money Harang got if you include the signing bonus he gets in 2008 as part of his salary.

remdog
02-08-2007, 01:36 PM
Not sure if this has much to do with Homer at all. It could mean the opposite. If Wayne feels that Homer is a solid 3 or 4 right now he probably feels pretty good about his 07 staff. IMO Homer is going to be a real good 4 or 5 to start out and will only get better as the season goes on.

You could be absolutely correct. I'm just going with the indication that they don't intend to rush Homer. (Which I agree with completely, BTW. See, I'm not always down on Krivsky. :laugh: )

Rem

roby
02-08-2007, 01:47 PM
This is a great move! This week's activity is (for reds fans) a lot like the action on "24." Does Bob Castellini = Jack Bauer?

Sean_CaseyRules
02-08-2007, 02:01 PM
I am glad to see this, I believe that its an awesome deal for our Redlegs! I am really happy we might see Bronson here for a couple more years!!!

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
02-08-2007, 02:29 PM
You could be absolutely correct. I'm just going with the indication that they don't intend to rush Homer. (Which I agree with completely, BTW. See, I'm not always down on Krivsky. :laugh: )

Rem

I think after yesterday and today Wayne deserves an apology:laugh:
Maybe im not looking deep enough into this but Arroyo and Harrang were going to be here this year regardless, so that's why I don't feel that this has much to do with Homer. I can't convince myself that even if he is the best option in the rotation, he will start in AAA. Last time I looked though my pay check didn't have a Reds logo on it so my oppinion has about as much merit as this guys.

Jaycint
02-08-2007, 02:33 PM
I wonder what the reaction is at SOSH?

Here's a sampling, haha:


(Rudy Pemberton @ Feb 8 2007, 02:14 PM) *
Hey, I'm a pretty big Arroyo supporter but I really don't see the need for a 2 year, $25M extension. It's not worth it, esp. since he's already locked up- unless they thought he was going to command $15M in a few years. Buying high, isn't it?
Yes it is, and as a not-so-big Arroyo supporter I think it is purely insane. It's easy to see why the Reds are terrible.

Matt700wlw
02-08-2007, 02:34 PM
Throw Homer in there at some point, and you got a nice, solid, LEGIT rotation.

I know....we haven't seen him yet. I BELIEVE!!!!!

:reds:

Matt700wlw
02-08-2007, 02:36 PM
This is a great move! This week's activity is (for reds fans) a lot like the action on "24." Does Bob Castellini = Jack Bauer?

Could Bob kill someone if it meant saving the franchise?

Brian
02-08-2007, 02:41 PM
I tend to agree with those who are being positive about this deal. The ones who are worried about 2006 being a fluke for BA, well, maybe it was or maybe he's just getting better. Any contract is a gamble isn't it? At least the Reds are willing to roll the bones rather than waiting for him to go off to another team in 2 years with little or no compensation. The Reds need stability in the rotation and this coupled with Harang and the likely promotion of Homer in the next 18 months gives them a solid and probably reliable 1-3. With all the other pitchers that are around, they should have enough fodder to stopgap the 4 and 5 spots with servicable pitchers. Not many teams are deep past the top 3 any more. Lastly, this move is a show for fans and players that the Reds are maybe not for real yet, but at least up and coming and willing to try. The same can't be said for some organizations...

OesterPoster
02-08-2007, 02:43 PM
Could Bob kill someone if it meant saving the franchise?

Maybe Bob C. also has a cell phone which never has a dead battery. ;)

Danny Serafini
02-08-2007, 02:50 PM
I have to go on one side rant - Dan Davis from ESPN Radio is an idiot. I'm getting so sick of him ripping this every 20 minute update. It's constantly "The Reds are driving up the price of pitchers for spending this on 14-11 Bronson Arroyo". Of course it seems like they're driving up the price when you get the deal wrong every single update! Guess what Dan, it's not 4 years for $45 million, you may want to actually look it up before you report it. Between the negative swipes (Davis is a self-admitted Red Sox die hard, which may explain some bitterness) and the sloppy reporting in general (this is far from the first time he's gotten a fact wrong) it's annoying having to listen to this all day. But if that's my biggest complaint on the deal I guess it's a good day. :)

Brian
02-08-2007, 03:00 PM
You know how it is, reporting is about being first, regarless of being right, and being sensational or scary, so people will listen.

cincy09
02-08-2007, 03:19 PM
ESPiN is the biggest farce in all of sports. They are geared purely for entertainment and not sports insight. Every year it gets a little bit worse. They only cater to the largest markets and "entertain" the masses by beating up on the smaller ones.

Today is a good day to be a reds fan and ESPiN can't take that away!

paulrichjr
02-08-2007, 03:26 PM
Include me in the group that is shocked by this. I honestly thought Bronson would never be shaken from a big city mentality and be willing to stay here beyond his 2 year commitment that he had left over from his Boston contract. But I am also very happy that he is willing to stay here. He may or may not be as successful in the coming years as he was this year but that doesnt take away from the idea that he signed this extension when his value is at the highest and his big city dreams would also be at their highest. I wonder who instigated this? Did he do it after the Harang singing?

I don't know if you went to RedsFest or not but I did and listened to Bronson and even spoke to him about my desire for him to stay in Cincy. The guy doesn't seem to have the "big city" attitude to me at all. He was by far the smartest player that I saw interviewed (most articulate anyway). He seemed very genuine and came across much different than I thought he would. I left there with this thought...."If I just knew this guy could be in Cincy for a few years I could see him becoming a long-term favorite of mine." That says a lot since I haven't had a favorite in a long time....


Kudos to WayneK for this one and Harang. I actually thought yesterday that he should approach Arroyo about an extension but I never thought it would happen.

Matt700wlw
02-08-2007, 03:33 PM
Maybe Bob C. also has a cell phone which never has a dead battery. ;)

Does he have a Chloe?

bucksfan2
02-08-2007, 03:38 PM
I think some of this has to deal with the reds making them their poster boy for the team. He will get a lot of advertising money in the next few years.

If we assume that baily will be in the majors in the next 6-18 months you have to like the 1-2-3 punch. Could you imagine being a hitter and facing Harang one day, Arroyo the next, and then Baily.

lollipopcurve
02-08-2007, 03:47 PM
"The Reds are driving up the price of pitchers for spending this on 14-11 Bronson Arroyo"

As I recall, according to national media, the Reds were driving up prices of "players nobody wanted" at the outset of the offseason, too, with the signings of Stanton and Weathers. Forcing teams to spend too much on equally undesirable players, apparently.

Gaw-lly, now they're at it again, driving up the prices of all those pitchers gettin ready to sign right about now (and if you don't see 'em signing in droves here in February, it's cuz them dagblasted Reds been drivin the prices sky high). Man alive, that team with a 70 million dollar payroll sure does set the market rate for pitchers... in February, at the tail end of free agency...

Can the commentary be any more idiotic?

blumj
02-08-2007, 03:48 PM
I don't know what a "big city" attitude is, but Boston's just a big college town and Bronson's from Key West. Come to think of it, reuniting him with Bellhorn might not be the best idea. Maybe that's why the Reds need so many mature relief pitchers, for adult supervision.

Ltlabner
02-08-2007, 04:05 PM
I have to go on one side rant - Dan Davis from ESPN Radio is an idiot. I'm getting so sick of him ripping this every 20 minute update. It's constantly "The Reds are driving up the price of pitchers for spending this on 14-11 Bronson Arroyo". Of course it seems like they're driving up the price when you get the deal wrong every single update! Guess what Dan, it's not 4 years for $45 million, you may want to actually look it up before you report it. Between the negative swipes (Davis is a self-admitted Red Sox die hard, which may explain some bitterness) and the sloppy reporting in general (this is far from the first time he's gotten a fact wrong) it's annoying having to listen to this all day. But if that's my biggest complaint on the deal I guess it's a good day. :)

So the Royals did what then...drive prices down? :dunno: You are right about that guy Danny.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
02-08-2007, 04:08 PM
ESPiN is the biggest farce in all of sports. They are geared purely for entertainment and not sports insight. Every year it gets a little bit worse. They only cater to the largest markets and "entertain" the masses by beating up on the smaller ones.

Today is a good day to be a reds fan and ESPiN can't take that away!
Agreed, Also ESPN Insider stinks. :thumbdown

remdog
02-08-2007, 04:21 PM
I see a lot of giddy optomisim on this board about Bailey making the Reds the best 1-2-3 rotation in the division/league/majors this year/next year. All that's well and good in an emotional way but, really, a Major League GM (or a rational fan for that matter) doesn't make that bet.

Bailey has a half-season at AA. He's been very good to terrific so far but we've seen more players implode from that point than players that make the jump to the heights expressed here.

It's great to be optomistic. (Despite the last few months, I've actually been accused of being a Pollyanna.) But it's better to temper that optomisim with a good size dose of the real world.

God knows I hope Homer comes in here and is an instant Kofax but I'm holding my breath right now that he even comes in here and becomes the next Tomko.

Rem

redsmetz
02-08-2007, 04:41 PM
I see a lot of giddy optomisim on this board about Bailey making the Reds the best 1-2-3 rotation in the division/league/majors this year/next year. All that's well and good in an emotional way but, really, a Major League GM (or a rational fan for that matter) doesn't make that bet.

Bailey has a half-season at AA. He's been very good to terrific so far but we've seen more players implode from that point than players that make the jump to the heights expressed here.

It's great to be optomistic. (Despite the last few months, I've actually been accused of being a Pollyanna.) But it's better to temper that optomisim with a good size dose of the real world.

God knows I hope Homer comes in here and is an instant Kofax but I'm holding my breath right now that he even comes in here and becomes the next Tomko.

Rem

I continue to speak about Wayne's philosophy of "step by step" and Bailey is the supreme case. Let him have success at each level. In the long run, we'll be the better for it.

gonelong
02-08-2007, 04:54 PM
I see a lot of giddy optomisim on this board about Bailey making the Reds the best 1-2-3 rotation in the division/league/majors this year/next year. All that's well and good in an emotional way but, really, a Major League GM (or a rational fan for that matter) doesn't make that bet.

Bailey has a half-season at AA. He's been very good to terrific so far but we've seen more players implode from that point than players that make the jump to the heights expressed here.

It's great to be optomistic. (Despite the last few months, I've actually been accused of being a Pollyanna.) But it's better to temper that optomisim with a good size dose of the real world.

God knows I hope Homer comes in here and is an instant Kofax but I'm holding my breath right now that he even comes in here and becomes the next Tomko.

Rem

I think some of the giddiness (at least from me) is that with these 2 moves the window that Homer needs to be come effective in has widened considerably. Next off-season we might have very well been worried about heading into the season with a huge unknown price-tag coming to Harang in arbitration as well as the ramifications of trying to sign him long-term and the prospect of losing Arroyo after the season (without a return).

Now we have what looks to be a pretty solid head of the rotation guy in Harang and a pretty viable #2/3 guy in Arroyo for the next 4 years. That gives Homer this season to get his feet wet, next season to work on his stuff (with Harang and Arroyo to mentor him) and 2009/2010 for us to have a nice 1-2-3 combo.

Certainly any of the 3 could get hurt, regress, or not develop and I'm not counting all my chickens just yet. But at least we have a viable plan that on paper seems to have us headed in the right direction.

Alot can happen over the next 2-3 years, but it gives us a nice foundation to build on.

GL

vaticanplum
02-08-2007, 05:05 PM
More car commercials!!!

Redsland
02-08-2007, 06:09 PM
More car commercials!!!
Be sure to look for these upcoming Bronson Arroyo sponsorship deals:

“Hi ladies, I’m Bronson Arroyo. I’m known for throwing curves on the mound, but did you know I also go to Curves when I’m looking to score with hot, fitness-minded consenting adults?”

“Hi, I’m Bronson Arroyo, and people say I throw like Gibson. But that doesn’t mean I’d ever throw my Gibson guitar, from Buddy Roger’s Music.”

“Hi, I’m Bronson Arroyo, and if you have a 25-inch waist and a 53-inch inseam, like I do, then you know how hard it is to buy business casual pants that look great right out of the dryer. Fortunately Gentry has men’s Docker’s for 60 percent off through Friday.”

“When my golden mane flows seductively into my eyes just a little too much, thank goodness there’s a Supercuts nearby. Hi, I’m Bronson Arroyo.”

“Hi, I’m Eric Milton.” “And I’m Bronson Arroyo.” “The only thing that clears a yard faster than my slider…” “…is my Cub Cadet mower/mulcher.

:)

FlightRick
02-08-2007, 06:47 PM
Y'all might just be kidding around about Arroyo's marketability and the Reds' willingness to pimp him out.... but to be deadly serious, those are the things that helped me lose the *very* tiny nagging notion I had earlier this afternoon when I heard the news and thought that the money for Arroyo was a little high given that he's 2 years older than Harang and has half as much proven big league success as a starter.

That might still end up being the case in terms of on-field value; but on the books and in the accounting ledgers, methinks Bronson will turn this deal into a steal for the Reds.

Let's face it, if there're two things chicks dig more than the long ball, they are (a) delicate hippie arteests who front bands and (b) sexually-non-threatening post-queer-eye-make-over tools. I don't know how or why, but Arroyo has always struck me as kind of the perfect prototype if anyone wanted to experiment with a new class of "Metrosexual Hippies." He's money on that front. And as a dude? I may make my jokes about his appearance or how his weak band rocks significantly less than even Kelly fricking Clarkson, but I also don't give a crap as long as he's posting All-Star caliber numbers for my favorite team. I may even take a shine to the guy if it turns out he keeps missing All-Star Week functions (as he did in '06) because he actually *does* have some sac and a taste for late night fun, and has to leave it to David Ortiz to make excuses for why he's nowhere to be seen at the crack of noon for some lame press conference.

I digress. Point is: this guy is gonna move merchandise in a big way for the Reds.

Throw in the fact that as the Reds get good and (hopefully) start attracting some national attention, we're losing Junior, and Dunn may not be long for this world, so we'll be short one (1) Team Identity... if we accept that we'll be putting a new easily-marketable "face" on this team in the next 2 years, you could do a lot worse than Bronson. There are things he's gonna bring to the franchise for the next four years that aren't tied directly to ERA or WHIP or VORP or MEEPS or MOOPS or PECOTA or whatever else the stat wonks like to point to.

In simplest terms, Arroyo's a rock star, and it's got almost zero to do with him being in a band. It cannot hurt to have a guy like this around for the long haul.



PS: Before any afformentioned stat wonks say "Griffey probably sells enough merch to not be a total Financial Black Hole for the team, but that's not helping us win any ballgames," let me just qualify my thesis by saying that "On this happy day, let's operate under the assumption that Bronson Arroyo's body will not freakishly turn into Waterford Crystal almost immediately upon signing of a long term deal with the Redlegs." Even as a #3 Starter by 2009 and 2010, Arroyo should end up earning every penny of this contract, given the Big Bag o' Intangibles he brings with him.

pedro
02-08-2007, 07:08 PM
"Metrosexual Hippies."

:lol:

jojo
02-08-2007, 08:29 PM
I have to go on one side rant - Dan Davis from ESPN Radio is an idiot. I'm getting so sick of him ripping this every 20 minute update. It's constantly "The Reds are driving up the price of pitchers for spending this on 14-11 Bronson Arroyo". Of course it seems like they're driving up the price when you get the deal wrong every single update! Guess what Dan, it's not 4 years for $45 million, you may want to actually look it up before you report it. Between the negative swipes (Davis is a self-admitted Red Sox die hard, which may explain some bitterness) and the sloppy reporting in general (this is far from the first time he's gotten a fact wrong) it's annoying having to listen to this all day. But if that's my biggest complaint on the deal I guess it's a good day. :)

To be fair, the Arroyo contract is much riskier than Harang's. While Harang isn't likely to get any better than he is now, it's reasonable to expect him to maintain his current performance throughout the duration of his extension which would make the contract a good value. Arroyo on the other hand had an ERA in '06 that exceeded his true performance by about .60 runs as measured by John Burnson's simERA (metric based upon taking a guy's K%, BB%, and GB% simulated over 5000 times to yield a distribution of most likely ERAs and seeing where his true ERA fell on the distribution). Given his exceptionally high strand rate of '06 isn't likely to be repeated and he may not get the benefit of pitching against 4 of the worst 8 offenses in the majors again in '07, its very likely that he wont have a sub-4 ERA this season. Then consider that he is projected to be a #4 at best during his big payout years (ERA=4.70), and it's not as likely that Arroyo's contact will be as good a value as Harang's.

mth123
02-08-2007, 08:52 PM
I think some of the giddiness (at least from me) is that with these 2 moves the window that Homer needs to be come effective in has widened considerably. Next off-season we might have very well been worried about heading into the season with a huge unknown price-tag coming to Harang in arbitration as well as the ramifications of trying to sign him long-term and the prospect of losing Arroyo after the season (without a return).

Now we have what looks to be a pretty solid head of the rotation guy in Harang and a pretty viable #2/3 guy in Arroyo for the next 4 years. That gives Homer this season to get his feet wet, next season to work on his stuff (with Harang and Arroyo to mentor him) and 2009/2010 for us to have a nice 1-2-3 combo.

Certainly any of the 3 could get hurt, regress, or not develop and I'm not counting all my chickens just yet. But at least we have a viable plan that on paper seems to have us headed in the right direction.

Alot can happen over the next 2-3 years, but it gives us a nice foundation to build on.

GL
This pretty much says everything that I think as well.

I have to admit these two signings have improved my outlook about the Reds and the current regime quite a bit. I still hate the 2007 Bullpen and 1B platoon, but the future looks to have a chance and IMO that seemed to be pretty dim last weekend.

Kudos to WK and BCast for giving the reds a starting point toward contention for the next few years.

jmac
02-08-2007, 09:23 PM
While Harang isn't likely to get any better than he is now, it's reasonable to expect him to maintain his current performance throughout the duration of his extension which would make the contract a good value.

I can actually see Harang progressing to a 3.2 -3.4 range ERA type pitcher.
I am not saying he will be in the low 2's but i can definitely see him taking it lower than last years and holding in that range.

11larkin11
02-08-2007, 10:18 PM
I really really like this move, but I do have one concern, not necessarily with this signing, but with our future rotation.

Homer Bailey
Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Johnny Cueto

Anyone see anything about this?

They're all righties. We would need a good lefty to put into the mix. Could it be Wood? Can we live with one lefty in the rotation?

fearofpopvol1
02-08-2007, 11:10 PM
Forgive me for not reading this thread in it's entirety, but I was slightly bothered by Bronson's press conference (you can watch it on Reds.com). Let me first say that I am excited about the extension and I do think it was not only a smart move, but one that shouldn't be passed up.

Anyway, when they gave Bronson mic and the reporter asked him a great question, how he was very comfortable in Boston and liked it there and to come here into this situation, what changed his mind...I'm just sort of paraphrasing. Anyway, I would've really liked for his answer to focue more on the team or the city or something of that sort and instead, he mentioned how it would be hard to pass up that much in guaranteed money when it could make him set for life. I don't know, I'm not knocking the guy for being honest, but it sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Not that he feels that way, but that he actually said it. Anyone else notice that?

roby
02-08-2007, 11:42 PM
Does he have a Chloe?

He might...but what you said earlier got me to thinking. Suppose he might shoot John Allen for the good of the team?

blumj
02-08-2007, 11:51 PM
Forgive me for not reading this thread in it's entirety, but I was slightly bothered by Bronson's press conference (you can watch it on Reds.com). Let me first say that I am excited about the extension and I do think it was not only a smart move, but one that shouldn't be passed up.

Anyway, when they gave Bronson mic and the reporter asked him a great question, how he was very comfortable in Boston and liked it there and to come here into this situation, what changed his mind...I'm just sort of paraphrasing. Anyway, I would've really liked for his answer to focue more on the team or the city or something of that sort and instead, he mentioned how it would be hard to pass up that much in guaranteed money when it could make him set for life. I don't know, I'm not knocking the guy for being honest, but it sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Not that he feels that way, but that he actually said it. Anyone else notice that?
You might as well get used to that. He doesn't think before he speaks, he just opens his mouth and honest reactions pop out.

Caveat Emperor
02-09-2007, 12:21 AM
Homer Bailey
Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Johnny Cueto

Anyone see anything about this?


You mean other than the fact that it's just penciling in a guy who hasn't pitched an inning over A ball into the #4 slot?

:dunno:

RFS62
02-09-2007, 07:12 AM
You might as well get used to that. He doesn't think before he speaks, he just opens his mouth and honest reactions pop out.


Wow, imagine that.

A guy who simply tells the truth and doesn't spin or posture when asked a question.

I like it.

RANDY IN INDY
02-09-2007, 07:38 AM
Wow, imagine that.

A guy who simply tells the truth and doesn't spin or posture when asked a question.

I like it.

A rare find in these days.:beerme:

Ltlabner
02-09-2007, 08:21 AM
Anyway, when they gave Bronson mic and the reporter asked him a great question, how he was very comfortable in Boston and liked it there and to come here into this situation, what changed his mind...I'm just sort of paraphrasing. Anyway, I would've really liked for his answer to focue more on the team or the city or something of that sort and instead, he mentioned how it would be hard to pass up that much in guaranteed money when it could make him set for life. I don't know, I'm not knocking the guy for being honest, but it sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Not that he feels that way, but that he actually said it. Anyone else notice that?

Yep, I noticed it. And don't care.

He signed an extension with the Reds. I don't care if he has a shirne to Boston in his bedroom. As long as he is pitching well, and not creating a problem in the clubhouse for the Reds he can long for where ever his heart desires.

And I don't care that he mentioned the money. The fact is the Reds had to caugh up some benjermins if they wanted to keep him in Cincy. And they did so now, instead of waiting till later when it's (likely) more expensive. And that he's honest about it is refreshing. He's human, of course he's going to go where the money is. Had he babbled on about his love for Cincinnati and how he's always wanted to pitch here would anybody have believed it?

edabbs44
02-09-2007, 08:51 AM
He signed an extension with the Reds. I don't care if he has a shirne to Boston in his bedroom. As long as he is pitching well, and not creating a problem in the clubhouse for the Reds he can long for where ever his heart desires.

Agreed 100%, as long as he doesn't cause a problem in the clubhouse at some point.

What's so great about Boston anyway? I'll take Montgomery Inn ribs over baked beans any day.