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View Full Version : Reds Sign Harang to 4-year Deal



johngalt
02-06-2007, 12:18 PM
According to C. Trent...

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2007/02/reds-sign-harang.asp

camisadelgolf
02-06-2007, 12:20 PM
Amen! And just when I thought Harang was the ugliest man alive, I saw that picture of C. Trent. Thank you, johngalt!

dsmith421
02-06-2007, 12:21 PM
Best move of Krivsky's tenure so far. Bravo, Reds.

RFS62
02-06-2007, 12:29 PM
Great move.

Krusty
02-06-2007, 12:29 PM
Where are the Krivsky bashers for the Reds wasting their money to signing Harang to a longterm deal?

Marty and Joe
02-06-2007, 12:31 PM
Fantastic. I'm curious to see the details.

harangatang
02-06-2007, 12:33 PM
Hallelujah

edabbs44
02-06-2007, 12:33 PM
http://www.xsltblog.com/archives/24805BP~The-Simpsons-Mr-Burns-Excellent.jpg

top6
02-06-2007, 12:38 PM
great move (assuming it's not for insane money). great news.

lollipopcurve
02-06-2007, 12:38 PM
Good -- I would have liked to have seen him signed before the market ballooned, but this is still a nice deal. After Krivsky admitted he wished he'd signed Harang long-term last winter, I felt sure this would get done. Big A seems to be the kind of pitcher who will hold up -- let's hope so.

Danny Serafini
02-06-2007, 12:39 PM
From the blog-

UPDATE: The deal, including the fifth-year buyout, is worth $36.5 million, which when Gil Meche is getting five years for $55 million is a bargain. The press conference will be live on WLW and Reds.com

Red Leader
02-06-2007, 12:40 PM
From the blog-

UPDATE: The deal, including the fifth-year buyout, is worth $36.5 million, which when Gil Meche is getting five years for $55 million is a bargain. The press conference will be live on WLW and Reds.com

That is extremely reasonable, IMO. Great deal.

KronoRed
02-06-2007, 12:41 PM
Awesome.

RANDY IN INDY
02-06-2007, 12:42 PM
Stay healthy, Aaron Harang.

steig
02-06-2007, 12:45 PM
Great signing :beerme: . This also eliminates the distraction of a contract negotiontion during spring training and dragging into the season.

jonmurr
02-06-2007, 12:45 PM
Bravo! Looks like the biggest bang for the buck deal of this crazy off-season. Hope he holds up okay.

Joseph
02-06-2007, 12:48 PM
And there was much rejoicing in Redsland.

NJReds
02-06-2007, 12:50 PM
Can't see anything wrong with this move. Nice contract.

Now...I wonder if they can they convice Arroyo to stay around (not likely).

Johnny Footstool
02-06-2007, 12:52 PM
So up to 5 years at a little more than $7 million per. Fantastic!

This is a great move by Krivsky.

Johnny Footstool
02-06-2007, 12:55 PM
Stay healthy, Aaron Harang.

Harang's work ethic is beyond excellent, which may help him avoid injury.

RedsManRick
02-06-2007, 12:55 PM
Wow -- this is a stellar deal! Best signing I can remember in recent Reds history.

captainmorgan07
02-06-2007, 12:56 PM
nice move by wayne savying that extra cash payed off

Cyclone792
02-06-2007, 12:59 PM
Not only is this by far the best move by the Reds this offseason, it's the best move Krivsky's made here in around 10 months and arguably the best move he's ever made here.

It's excellent money relative to the market, not a bad contract length at all, and I've actually had Harang pegged down with putting up a monster year or three throughout his prime.

klw
02-06-2007, 12:59 PM
So up to 5 years at a little more than $7 million per. Fantastic!

This is a great move by Krivsky.

My reading of this is the buyout of th 5 year is only what is included in the $36.5 and not the whole 5th year. So it is 4 plus buyout for 36.5. Lets say the buyout is $1.5 then it is 4 for 35 plus the 1.5. Given the market 4 for 34 or 35 is very reasonable.

jmcclain19
02-06-2007, 01:00 PM
Not only is this by far the best move by the Reds this offseason, it's the best move Krivsky's made here in around 10 months and arguably the best move he's ever made here.

It's excellent money relative to the market, not a bad contract length at all, and I've actually had Harang pegged down with putting up a monster year or three throughout his prime.

Totally agree.

I've said all offseason that Harang's LTC was the most important signing the Reds could make.

Bravo Wayne.

blumj
02-06-2007, 01:00 PM
So up to 5 years at a little more than $7 million per. Fantastic!

This is a great move by Krivsky.
I don't think so, it depends how much the option and buyout are for the 5th year. If they wind up buying it out, it's more like a little over $9M a year for 4 years, if they pick it up, it'll probably wind up being in the 5 years, $50M-ish neighborhood. Still a very good deal, just not ridiculously team favorable that a $7M per year deal would be.

Heath
02-06-2007, 01:04 PM
I will admit that a 4-yr deal for a pitcher is a little risky.

But, I'll take this deal. And twice on Sunday.

Good move Redlegs.

Johnny Footstool
02-06-2007, 01:04 PM
I don't think so, it depends how much the option and buyout are for the 5th year. If they wind up buying it out, it's more like a little over $9M a year for 4 years, if they pick it up, it'll probably wind up being in the 5 years, $50M-ish neighborhood. Still a very good deal, just not ridiculously team favorable that a $7M per year deal would be.

OK. I thought the $36.5 million included the 5th year option, not just the buyout.

It's under $10 million per year, so it's still a good deal.

Puffy
02-06-2007, 01:11 PM
Where are the Krivsky bashers for the Reds wasting their money to signing Harang to a longterm deal?

Way to pick a fight!

westofyou
02-06-2007, 01:13 PM
Way to pick a fight!

Yes, a very constructive post it was.

Reds Fanatic
02-06-2007, 01:17 PM
Very good news. A well deserved contract for Aaron.

remdog
02-06-2007, 01:17 PM
Where are the Krivsky bashers for the Reds wasting their money to signing Harang to a longterm deal?


Most of the 'Krivsky bashers' are thrilled at the deal and our only question is: 'What took ya' so long?'

There. Happy with that Krusty? Sorry to ask for something more than the mediocrity that you find acceptable.

Rem

Patrick Bateman
02-06-2007, 01:19 PM
Fantastic deal. Agree with the sentiments that this is the best move Krivsky has made in a long time.

Knowing Harang's frame and durability, there's not much of a better bet to keep producing the next 4 years. Plus it's at a very reasonable cost. I'm pleased that Krivsky has shown the willingness to lock up the top players (now Harang and Dunn).

paulrichjr
02-06-2007, 01:24 PM
I am often a Kriv basher but not today. In fact the thing I like about this the most is the extra year that has very little risk for us. This folks could be a 5 year contract. Very good move Wayne. Very good move.

Benihana
02-06-2007, 01:25 PM
Great, great news! Best Reds news since Carl announced the sale. FWIW, I can't recall a move that was so unanimously applauded on Redszone in quite some time. Can any RZ historians help me out here?

Spring~Fields
02-06-2007, 01:26 PM
Not only is this by far the best move by the Reds this offseason, it's the best move Krivsky's made here in around 10 months and arguably the best move he's ever made here.



Without question very true.

I was so conditioned by the other "deals" this came as a shock at first.

Excellent deal by the Reds.

Heath
02-06-2007, 01:27 PM
Way to pick a fight!

http://www.daniyel.com/pepper/pepper_art/current/may-k-Mudslinging.gif

WMR
02-06-2007, 01:34 PM
Great contract for the Reds.

Mainspark
02-06-2007, 01:35 PM
To repeat what's already been said, this is the best Reds news of this off-season.

WMR
02-06-2007, 01:36 PM
Where are the Krivsky bashers for the Reds wasting their money to signing Harang to a longterm deal?

Where are the Krivsky moves that were anywhere close to being as good as this one??

Riiight.

cumberlandreds
02-06-2007, 01:41 PM
$36.5 million over four years is a bargain these days! Great news! Harang has improved each season and has shown no propensity for injury thus far. The Reds should have him for the best years of his career.

registerthis
02-06-2007, 01:45 PM
Where are the Krivsky moves that were anywhere close to being as good as this one??

Picking up 3 years of Bronson Arroyo at a ridiculously low rate?

That's the only comparable deal I can see. To echo the sentiments of everyone else, this is an absolutely fantastic move. Very, very nice.

kbrake
02-06-2007, 01:48 PM
Nothing to add that has not already been said but wow what a great deal.

membengal
02-06-2007, 01:50 PM
+1 on the general sentiments here. Great move by the Reds, much thanks to Harang for taking such a reasonable deal, good day all around. Makes me look forward to the coming camp much more than I was 24 hours ago. Solid.

Will M
02-06-2007, 01:54 PM
Harang and his children and his grandchildren :) don't have money worries.
He gets security - rather than playing year by year and getting maximum dollars but risking injury.

The Reds save money ( assuming he doesn't get hurt ) by giving him the security.

Also Harang can play relaxed with usually is a plus for a player.

Also #2 - I don't see Harang as the type to 'mail it in' once he gets the money.

Matt700wlw
02-06-2007, 01:57 PM
Great move.

:clap:

They got it done, as I thought they would.

IslandRed
02-06-2007, 01:58 PM
Nice work by the front office. I'm not a big fan of pitching deals longer than three years, but Harang's right in the age/durability zone that makes an extra year or two a sensible bet, particularly as a hedge against future pitching inflation. Well done.

redsmetz
02-06-2007, 01:58 PM
Great contract for the Reds.

The reality is, it's a great contract for Harang too. This money is not chump change regardless of whatever the market may be. All of these guys are making unbelievable money, period.

redsmetz
02-06-2007, 02:02 PM
Harang and his children and his grandchildren :) don't have money worries.
He gets security - rather than playing year by year and getting maximum dollars but risking injury.

The Reds save money ( assuming he doesn't get hurt ) by giving him the security.

Also Harang can play relaxed with usually is a plus for a player.

Also #2 - I don't see Harang as the type to 'mail it in' once he gets the money.

At the end of the Enquirer's blurb about this was this item:

He has made 80 consecutive starts without walking more than 3 batters

I didn't know that, but it's sweet! I want that for a long time!

westofyou
02-06-2007, 02:02 PM
Where are the Krivsky moves that were anywhere close to being as good as this one??

Riiight.

If you haven't noticed then you're looking for something else.

Handofdeath
02-06-2007, 02:16 PM
Ted Lilly, Jeff Suppan, Vicente Padilla, and Gil Meche all got contracts paying more than 10 million a year. The Reds just signed the NL leader last season in wins, K's, and complete games for less than that for 4 years. Best signing of the offseason. Does anyone realize that the Reds could possible have the Cy Young award winner next season and the Gold Glove winner at SS and be paying less than 14 million a year for it?

StillFunkyB
02-06-2007, 02:17 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

RedsBaron
02-06-2007, 02:20 PM
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

westofyou
02-06-2007, 02:25 PM
Since the Reds won the WS here are their IP leaders for one season.


CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
1991-2006

RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
ERA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

INNINGS PITCHED YEAR IP RSAA ERA
1 Jose Rijo 1993 257.1 44 1.56
2 Bronson Arroyo 2006 240.2 41 1.20
3 Aaron Harang 2006 234.1 28 0.73
4 Tom Browning 1991 230.1 -4 -.49
5 Tim Belcher 1992 227.2 -9 -.40
6 John Smiley 1996 217.1 14 0.58
7 Greg Swindell 1992 213.2 21 0.81
8 Aaron Harang 2005 211.2 16 0.40
9 Jose Rijo 1992 211 23 0.95
10 Brett Tomko 1998 210.2 -3 -.21

RedFanAlways1966
02-06-2007, 02:28 PM
Great news! :D :D :thumbup: :thumbup:

Phhhl
02-06-2007, 02:30 PM
That's a lot of money, but he was on schedule to make a lot more in the next five years if he tested the free agent market. He has certainly earned it. This potentially gives the Reds 2-3 good starters for the next 4 or 5 years, provided Bailey delivers as advertised. If they can piece together two more in that time, it can be a hell of a staff. Fantastic move by the Reds.

Jpup
02-06-2007, 02:33 PM
I thought the presser was going to be on Reds.com? It's 2:30 and no sign of it.

Matt700wlw
02-06-2007, 02:35 PM
That's a lot of money,

To us, yes.

In sports, it's a steal, especially with what he brings to the table :beerme:

westofyou
02-06-2007, 02:37 PM
I thought the presser was going to be on Reds.com? It's 2:30 and no sign of it.

Word has it it's COLD and SNOWY might be a delay due to weather.

Jpup
02-06-2007, 02:37 PM
Word has it it's COLD and SNOWY might be a delay due to weather.

thanks man. :thumbup:

GridironGrace
02-06-2007, 02:39 PM
wooooooowhoooooooooo just seen the article on .com

this rocks

guttle11
02-06-2007, 02:40 PM
I felt like going outside and doing snow angels in excitement, until I realized it's 10 degrees.

Great deal. Great, great deal. Aaron must love it here, because I see no logical way he should be making less than Ted Lilly and Gil Meche.

Ltlabner
02-06-2007, 02:40 PM
Well, as everybody has said, fantastic deal. Nice contract, VERY reasonable amount of money.

Glad to see they got it done.

Cyclone792
02-06-2007, 02:43 PM
I thought the presser was going to be on Reds.com? It's 2:30 and no sign of it.

The presser is over and done with. It started around 2:05 and was over with by 2:15. Harang was at the presser with Krivsky and Cast, and Harang's wife was also seated in the room. They made a few mentions of making it a quick one since apparently Harang and his wife need to get home in California to their newborn baby. They weren't sure how quickly they'd be able to get from GABP to the airport with the weather situation.

As for the presser itself, much of it was the pretty standard organizational speak in the "We're glad to have Harang signed for the next four to five years" type of mold. Harang stated that he and his wife really like Cincinnati and that they're glad they're going to be here for awhile.

The most interesting bit of the press conference was Krivsky mentioning one piece of information Harang's agent was going to use in an arbitration hearing should a hearing have happened. That piece of info was that Harang in 2006 was one of a select few pitchers to lead the National League in wins and strikeouts. Some of the other names on that list that Krivsky dropped were Koufax, Carlton, Drysdale, Seaver, Johnson, and Gooden. It was also the first time a Reds pitcher had accomplished the feat since Ewell Blackwell in 1947.

remdog
02-06-2007, 02:44 PM
Word has it it's COLD and SNOWY might be a delay due to weather.

Cold? Snowy? Cincinnati? February? :laugh:

Rem

Strikes Out Looking
02-06-2007, 02:46 PM
Wow. I'm so happy I have nothing to say except for play ball!

CrackerJack
02-06-2007, 02:51 PM
Good news indeed, although expected. The sooner, the better.

I hope this doesn't trigger the Gods to subsequently cast down the inevitable arm injury on him.

redsmetz
02-06-2007, 03:08 PM
Good news indeed, although expected. The sooner, the better.

I hope this doesn't trigger the Gods to subsequently cast down the inevitable arm injury on him.

No, back! Banish that thought!!!

http://warburg.sas.ac.uk/photos/index/godsmyths.jpg

camisadelgolf
02-06-2007, 03:09 PM
I hope he uses the signing bonus on plastic surgery.:mooner:

UKFlounder
02-06-2007, 03:11 PM
First, we get sent home from work 3 hours early due to the weather.

Then I log on and see this news.

Wonderful day so far (though I'm sure I'll pay for it at work tomorrow)

Wheelhouse
02-06-2007, 03:21 PM
Where are the Krivsky moves that were anywhere close to being as good as this one??

Riiight.

Well WilyMoRocks, we can begin with Wily Mo to Boston for Arroyo...oop that's your screen name. Riiiiight.

Caveat Emperor
02-06-2007, 03:38 PM
I will admit that a 4-yr deal for a pitcher is a little risky.

But, I'll take this deal. And twice on Sunday.

Good move Redlegs.

With the 6-7 year contracts being thrown around to top-flight pitchers, getting Harang at 4 years (+1 option) is a fantastic deal for the ballclub. The dollars are practically bargain-rate when you look at the other deals that've been made and factor natural inflation into the coming years.

I can't say enough good things about what the Reds did today. They did what successful teams in the majors (minus Florida) have to do -- they kept their own top-quality pitching at home. Moving in the FA market is so expensive that you simply have to keep reliable pitching around when you find it.

Bravo Wayne.

fisch11
02-06-2007, 04:05 PM
Harang/Arroyo combo is good for two more seasons untill Bronson's contract is up. I like.

Benihana
02-06-2007, 04:14 PM
We now have the following CORE players locked up through 2010 at least:

Harang
Bailey
Votto
Encarnacion
Dunn
Bruce

The next player I wouldn't mind seeing getting locked up for the long term (but not until the AS break at the earliest) would be Brandon Phillips, provided he can produce at the same level he did last year. I doubt Bronson Arroyo would be willing take ANY kind of discount to stay here, given the disdain he has expressed with the National League and the Midwest specifically.

reds44
02-06-2007, 04:16 PM
THANK YOU WAYNE!!!!!!!


:beerme: :beerme: :beerme: :beerme: :beerme: :beerme: :beerme:

Kc61
02-06-2007, 04:21 PM
We now have the following CORE players locked up through 2010 at least:

Harang
Bailey
Votto
Encarnacion
Dunn
Bruce

I doubt Bronson Arroyo would be willing take ANY kind of discount to stay here, given the disdain he has expressed with the National League and the Midwest specifically.

Dunn is signed only until 2008, and then only if Reds exercise option.

A lot of unproven minor leaguers in your core. Hope they all pan out.

15fan
02-06-2007, 04:25 PM
Did Aaron get a no-trade clause in his contract?

If he didn't, then the value of this deal goes up exponentially if the Reds flounder for the next 18 months. A healthy Arroyo and Harang at the 2008 trade deadline could fetch a huge haul.

MartyFan
02-06-2007, 04:30 PM
Another important aspect of this deal is the club stays in control of the 5th year and the money involved not outrageous which means this contract is very trade attractive too!

Danny Serafini
02-06-2007, 04:32 PM
Didn't get a no trade, but if he's dealt the option year goes from team to mutual and it increases by $1 million. Also the buyout also goes up $500,000.

Johnny Footstool
02-06-2007, 04:36 PM
Did Aaron get a no-trade clause in his contract?

If he didn't, then the value of this deal goes up exponentially if the Reds flounder for the next 18 months. A healthy Arroyo and Harang at the 2008 trade deadline could fetch a huge haul.

They could have fetched a huge haul now.

If Harang had refused the LTC offer, Krivsky would have done well to shop him. But that's moot now.

If Arroyo doesn't re-up prior to next season, Krivsky should deal him prior to 2008 spring training. He'd bring back a nice haul of ML-ready talent and prospects.

remdog
02-06-2007, 04:37 PM
Well WilyMoRocks, we can begin with Wily Mo to Boston for Arroyo...oop that's your screen name. Riiiiight.

I'd love to have Wily Mo's bat in this linup. We could certainly use it. :thumbup:

Rem

reds44
02-06-2007, 04:47 PM
They could have fetched a huge haul now.

If Harang had refused the LTC offer, Krivsky would have done well to shop him. But that's moot now.

If Arroyo doesn't re-up prior to next season, Krivsky should deal him prior to 2008 spring training. He'd bring back a nice haul of ML-ready talent and prospects.
Agreed, but hopefully we can get him to re-up. My head tells me he wants to go back to Boston, though.

vaticanplum
02-06-2007, 04:58 PM
Honestly, how in the world did the Reds pull this off for that money? I am stumped. This is an extraordinary deal. harang must really like it here. And he is only 28 so even if this goes five years he won't really be far past his peak yet.

I listened to the press conference as I was scraping my car in the parking lot next to GABP (with the door open to hear it). the enormity of this moment made me cry, and then the tears froze on my face, causing it to crack. I told the guys scraping their cars near me about the deal and they were happy. Then they started talking about Homer Bailey :lol:

dsmith421
02-06-2007, 05:05 PM
Honestly, how in the world did the Reds pull this off for that money?

The first year is about what he would have gotten in arbitration this year ($4.5M).

The second is roughly what he could have expected (given a good year) in arbitration in '08 ($7Mish).

The third and fourth years (both over $10M) are fair discounts, given current market value, on his first two years of free agency.

It's a nice deal that really works out for both sides.

vaticanplum
02-06-2007, 05:07 PM
I don't think this is quite as good of a deal as it seems. Don't get me wrong--I think it's fair. But he was going to make about $5 million this year, so that's $4 million or so extra they'll be paying him this year.

No, not the way the money is spread out. I forget the breakdown but he makes the least this year, then it climbs from there.

I guess I think it's such a steal because I really believe that even with a slight drop off, Aaron Harang could have stood to make maybe $15 million per in free agency in two years. I guess he likes security, though, can't blame him for that.

edit: dsmith got me too.

RedRoser
02-06-2007, 05:13 PM
Oh great. :rolleyes:
Now, in effect, we have two Eric Miltonesque (read albatross) contracts around our necks. :eek:
Whatever will Wayne Krivsky think of next. :help:








:evil: ONLY KIDDING, FOLKS! :D
What I really wanted to say was somewhere between:

"It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day. . ."

and

"I feel PRETTY! Oh, SO PRETTY!"


Here's to you Wayner K!!! Got'r dunn!

:beerme: WHOOO-HOOO!

---RedRoser

PuffyPig
02-06-2007, 05:15 PM
We now have the following CORE players locked up through 2010 at least:

Harang
Bailey
Votto
Encarnacion
Dunn
Bruce

The next player I wouldn't mind seeing getting locked up for the long term (but not until the AS break at the earliest) would be Brandon Phillips, provided he can produce at the same level he did last year. I doubt Bronson Arroyo would be willing take ANY kind of discount to stay here, given the disdain he has expressed with the National League and the Midwest specifically.

Phillips is every bit as much locked up to 2010 as Bailey, Votto and Bruce.

vaticanplum
02-06-2007, 05:19 PM
OMG...Harang finally got his long-term contract and he is STILL making less than Eric Milton next year :bang:

RedsManRick
02-06-2007, 05:19 PM
If Harang performs at his current level or higher without injury for the next 4 years, the Reds got a steal. If he gets hurt or declines in performance, well, that's why buying out arb years isn't always a great idea.

Reds Nd2
02-06-2007, 05:27 PM
If Arroyo doesn't re-up prior to next season, Krivsky should deal him prior to 2008 spring training. He'd bring back a nice haul of ML-ready talent and prospects.
IMO, it would be better to hold onto Arroyo untill the trade deadline. As we well know, quality pitching is hard to come by. I wouldn't be in too big a rush to trade it away. If he continues to pitch as he did in 2006 and stays healthy he will still bring in the haul of talent your looking for and you get the added benefit of him pitching for the Reds in his contract year (If you believe in that sort of thing). Also, and again it's just my opinion, but I think 2008 is the first real chance the Reds have to contend and Arroyo will be a big part of that. Of course, if the right deal came along...

Heath
02-06-2007, 05:38 PM
OMG...Harang finally got his long-term contract and he is STILL making less than Eric Milton next year :bang:

You can thank Dan O'Brien.

Too bad we didn't also land Matt Clement too.

:D

:bang:

vaticanplum
02-06-2007, 05:39 PM
If he gets hurt or declines in performance, well, that's why buying out arb years isn't always a great idea.

The Reds took something of a risk in that sense, but I really don't think they could have waited on this one. Harang is in many ways the team's best player. I believe this makes the Reds obligated to attempt a long-term contract, and he can turn them down if he feels it's too low.

I don't believe in coddling good players, but I do believe in giving them the respect they deserve.

Johnny Footstool
02-06-2007, 05:50 PM
You can thank Dan O'Brien.

Too bad we didn't also land Matt Clement too.

:D

:bang:


If the Reds had signed Matt Clement, his skull wouldn't have caught the business end of that line drive, and he'd still be pitching as well as (or better than) his pre-ASB 2005 numbers.

MrCinatit
02-06-2007, 06:25 PM
Great, great, great move. I see Harang as being the best around here since Soto - and maybe a bit better - and that ain't too shabby.


OMG...Harang finally got his long-term contract and he is STILL making less than Eric Milton next year :bang:

That was the first thing that popped into my mind.

KoryMac5
02-06-2007, 06:28 PM
Just got home from class and I am glad to see the news. I think many of us figured this deal would get done, and the dollars make sense. I wonder if Wayne will approach Arroyo in the near future to guage his interest in staying with the Reds.

westofyou
02-06-2007, 06:33 PM
If the Reds had signed Matt Clement, his skull wouldn't have caught the business end of that line drive, and he'd still be pitching as well as (or better than) his pre-ASB 2005 numbers.

Maybe not

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5561


The Red Sox finally know what was going on in the shoulder of pitcher Matt Clement, and it wasn't good. Dr. Jim Andrews found significant damage in Clement's shoulder during exploratory surgery. Damage to both the rotator cuff and labrum was seen and repaired, likely ending Clement's 2007 before we're even done with 2006. It's another lesson in why MRIs aren't perfect as diagnostic tools, and why conservative rehab is often as risky as exploratory surgery.

SirFelixCat
02-06-2007, 06:44 PM
Finally. It's a great day for us Reds fans. Thank you WK and BC and AH!

RedsManRick
02-06-2007, 06:50 PM
Maybe not

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5561

That's sad to hear, yet encouraging for him in a way. His struggles were at least in part due to a (hopefully) correctable physical problem. I'd already be thinking about Clement as a bounce back candidate in 2008. While he's never had great control, he misses a lot of bats and had thrown 7 straight seasons of 30+ starts.

Falls City Beer
02-06-2007, 07:02 PM
It absolutely needed to get done, but it was by no means a fait accompli that it would be done. Very good deal.

wheels
02-06-2007, 07:15 PM
I'm loving this.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I've got to give lots of credit to Wayne as far as recognizing important cogs and getting them locked up (see Dunn, Adam.).

I love it I love it I love it.

penantboundreds
02-06-2007, 07:16 PM
Arroyo will stay in the National League because AL hitter cream him

jojo
02-06-2007, 07:34 PM
Where are the Krivsky bashers for the Reds wasting their money to signing Harang to a longterm deal?

Praising him for this is a bit like praising him for remembering to breath isn't it? :cool:

pedro
02-06-2007, 07:51 PM
Praising him for this is a bit like praising him for remembering to breath isn't it? :cool:

not really.

GAC
02-06-2007, 08:05 PM
Looking at today's FA "climate", this is a good move. Especially when Seattle signs Weaver for a year @ 8.3 Mil.

mth123
02-06-2007, 08:06 PM
Fantastic move by the Reds.

Kudos to WK and BCast. The prevailing wisdom is to avoid deals longer than three years for pitchers, but in the Reds circumstance its important to keep Harang around. This is a good deal for both sides. A bargain for the Reds and security for Harang. If Harang goes south this should not be a deal to regret. This move had to be made.

This helps me get a little more excited for the season honestly.

KronoRed
02-06-2007, 08:09 PM
If the Reds had signed Matt Clement, his skull wouldn't have caught the business end of that line drive, and he'd still be pitching as well as (or better than) his pre-ASB 2005 numbers.

Maybe, but I bet Dan O would have gotten an extra year :help:

KronoRed
02-06-2007, 08:10 PM
I'd love to have Wily Mo's bat in this linup. We could certainly use it. :thumbup:

Rem

No way, he strikes out too much :devil:

jojo
02-06-2007, 08:13 PM
Looking at today's FA "climate", this is a good move. Especially when Seattle signs Weaver for a year @ 8.3 Mil.


Which was a good move too....

wheels
02-06-2007, 08:36 PM
Fantastic move by the Reds.

Kudos to WK and BCast. The prevailing wisdom is to avoid deals longer than three years for pitchers, but in the Reds circumstance its important to keep Harang around. This is a good deal for both sides. A bargain for the Reds and security for Harang. If Harang goes south this should not be a deal to regret. This move had to be made.

This helps me get a little more excited for the season honestly.

Me too.

I was getting worried.

Plus, Harang's one of my favorite players in all of Baseball, so I'm grinnin' like a Cheshire Cat right now.

That big ugly fella is gonna be around for a pretty long while. I'm diggin' on that big time.

Reds Nd2
02-06-2007, 08:37 PM
Which was a good move too....
Something not often associated with Bill Bavasi.

TheBigLebowski
02-06-2007, 08:40 PM
There is absolutely NOTHING to complain about with this deal, which does not bode well for the life of this thread.

Fantastic stuff. Bargain. Love it.

jojo
02-06-2007, 08:40 PM
Something not often associated with Bill Bavasi.

That whole FO needs an enema.... but Weaver still was a good move for them.

OnBaseMachine
02-06-2007, 09:19 PM
Terrific move by Krivsky!

Reds Nd2
02-06-2007, 09:24 PM
That whole FO needs an enema.... but Weaver still was a good move for them.
Well, he's back in the AL and in the same division that he went a combined 30-34 the past three seasons. Never had an ERA under 4.00 in a division that only had one team with a combined Park Indice over 100 during those seasons(Ballpark in Arlington). Yea' I know, that's a very rudimentary way of looking at it, but I have a hard time finding anything that makes this more than another ho-hum signing by the Mariners. Maybe I'm missing something, but my knee jerk reaction is the Mariners have overpayed for the guy they saw on October 27, 2006.

Aronchis
02-06-2007, 10:06 PM
Finally, the Reds sign Harang, now the Redszone syndicate bravely moves on;)

He should be a good pitcher through the years before age gets him. Sorta of the replacement for Pete Harnish the Reds were looking for since 2001.

Ron Madden
02-07-2007, 01:09 AM
Well done Wayne. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Raisor
02-07-2007, 09:19 AM
Just logged on for the first time since this was done.

Great news.

Johnny Footstool
02-07-2007, 09:38 AM
Maybe not

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5561

Ouch.

Well, at least he would have pitched effectively for the rest of 2005...

jojo
02-07-2007, 10:52 AM
Well, he's back in the AL and in the same division that he went a combined 30-34 the past three seasons. Never had an ERA under 4.00 in a division that only had one team with a combined Park Indice over 100 during those seasons(Ballpark in Arlington). Yea' I know, that's a very rudimentary way of looking at it, but I have a hard time finding anything that makes this more than another ho-hum signing by the Mariners. Maybe I'm missing something, but my knee jerk reaction is the Mariners have overpayed for the guy they saw on October 27, 2006.


This has already been hashed out to a decent degree here (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54206&highlight=jojo+weaver)...

redsmetz
02-07-2007, 11:23 AM
Lonnie Wheeler had a good column about the signing today:


No cold shoulder for Harang

Column by The Post's Lonnie Wheeler

The Cincinnati that Aaron Harang has grown to admire is the summer version. He wasn't prepared for what hit him Monday when he stepped off the plane from San Diego.

"I thought, whoa, this is cold," he mentioned Tuesday, warmed, by then, by the long-term contract he had just signed with the Reds for about $36 million, if it extends to a fifth season. "I had a pea coat that I never wear, but it was in my bag."

And still, he took the deal, even with the knowledge that it might mean moving here. The thing is, he's all right with that.

The thing is, he's all right, period.

You know how ballplayers, when they're angling for a contract and can't seem to get one done, and even when they do get one done, for millions after millions, always say it isn't about the money? And you know how you never, ever believe them?

I think you might have to believe Aaron Harang. And while you're at it, I think you might have to like, really like, Aaron Harang.

I mean . . .


Gil Meche last year: 11 wins, 4.48 ERA. Meche contract this winter: 5 years, $55 million.

Ted Lilly last year: 15 wins, 4.31 ERA. Lilly contract this winter: 4 years, $40 million.

Vicente Padilla last year: 15 wins, 4.50 ERA. Padilla contract this winter: 3 years, $33.75 million.

Jeff Suppan last year: 12 wins, 4.12 ERA. Suppan contract this winter: 4 years, $42 million.

Adam Eaton last year: 7 wins, 5.12 ERA. Eaton contract this winter: 3 years, $24.5 million.

Jason Marquis last year: 14 wins, 6.02 ERA. Marquis contract this winter: 3 years, $21 million.

Randy Wolf last year: 4 wins, 5.56 ERA. Wolf contract this winter: 1 year, $8 million.

Andy Pettitte last year: 14 wins, 4.20 ERA. Pettitte contract this winter: 1 year, $16 million.

Aaron Harang last year: 16 wins, 3.76 ERA. Harang projected contract this winter if he had been a free agent, like those other guys: 5 years, $60 million.

"I did see a lot of ridiculous numbers this offseason," said the gentle 270-pounder, who became only the eighth National League pitcher since 1960 to lead the league in both victories and strikeouts. The other seven were Randy Johnson, John Smoltz, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Don Drysdale, Steve Carlton and Sandy Koufax. "But you know what? I like the city of Cincinnati. It's humble and hard-working, and I'd like to think that I fit in with that.

"I know Wayne (Krivsky) and Bob (Castellini) have been doing a lot of work to solidify this organization, and I'm looking forward to the direction we're going. They were showing me dedication."

They showed him money, too. We shouldn't pooh-pooh the money. There was plenty of it. For plenty of years. Comparatively, though, the years are more plentiful than the money.

"We never focused on a one-year deal," said Krivsky, the general manager.

Instead, the Reds focused on doing what they absolutely had to do, if they were to maintain good faith with the paying public. All winter, they had confined their player investments to utilitarian veterans. The people understood. The free-agent pitchers were going for mad money. The people understood. Harang was eligible for arbitration, and the Reds hate arbitration, and he was there to be signed long-term, and if the Reds hadn't signed him long-term, the people would not have understood. Not one bit. That, the Reds understood.

"I think this sends a heck of a message to our fans and our players," Krivsky said.

Harang, without saying it, sent a heck of a message, too. His was that the Reds are a team worth signing with. A team with possibilities, run by men with good intentions, in a fine city that $36 million will buy most of.

No Cincinnati pitcher has ever made that much money before. But then, no Cincinnati pitcher since Ewell Blackwell, in 1947, has led the league in victories and strikeouts.

"I know Aaron's appreciative of history," noted Krivsky. "And I know he's glad he's not being paid like Mr. Blackwell in 1947."

Actually, he is being paid like the Whip in '47. Roughly every out.

And these days, that's a bargain.

LincolnparkRed
02-07-2007, 11:40 AM
Based on those comparisons Wayne looks like GM of the year already.

Johnny Footstool
02-07-2007, 11:49 AM
Based on those comparisons Wayne looks like GM of the year already.

Free agent signings are a lot different than signing arb-eligible players.

And I'd say it's a combination of Krivksy AND Harang that made this deal work. Krivsky didn't low-ball him too much, and Harang chose to take less money in exchange for 5 years of security.

dsmith421
02-07-2007, 11:53 AM
I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation, the festival of junkballers in the bullpen, and a somewhat emasculated offense.

In the euphoria over locking up perhaps the best starter the Reds have had since Jose Rijo, perhaps it's a good idea to remember that.

redsmetz
02-07-2007, 12:00 PM
I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation, the festival of junkballers in the bullpen, and a somewhat emasculated offense.

In the euphoria over locking up perhaps the best starter the Reds have had since Jose Rijo, perhaps it's a good idea to remember that.

Nah, let us revel in the moment! Go Reds!

remdog
02-07-2007, 12:20 PM
I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation, the festival of junkballers in the bullpen, and a somewhat emasculated offense.

In the euphoria over locking up perhaps the best starter the Reds have had since Jose Rijo, perhaps it's a good idea to remember that.

Good point smitty. Not to rain on Redmetz' parade but....aw heck, why not....this didn't really change anything about the Reds starting rotation next year. The money in arbitration, win or lose, would have been pretty much the same so....(shrug)

However, it may have (possibly) effected Krivsky's approach to other deals if he had locked up Harang earlier and had more certainty about the long term. Maybe he wouldn't have gone after geriatric relievers. Or, maybe he would have gone after a younger version of Conine (for less money). Or, maybe, just maybe, he would have been tempted to spend $18M of that $23M that he squandered on dreck to sign Zito and give the Reds the dominant starting staff in the division (or league). (shrug)

Rem

lollipopcurve
02-07-2007, 12:24 PM
And I'd say it's a combination of Krivksy AND Harang that made this deal work.

Of course. Just like, when a free agent chooses not to come to Cincinnati, the free agent himself has a say in the matter.

redsmetz
02-07-2007, 12:46 PM
Good point smitty. Not to rain on Redmetz' parade but....aw heck, why not....this didn't really change anything about the Reds starting rotation next year. The money in arbitration, win or lose, would have been pretty much the same so....(shrug)

However, it may have (possibly) effected Krivsky's approach to other deals if he had locked up Harang earlier and had more certainty about the long term. Maybe he wouldn't have gone after geriatric relievers. Or, maybe he would have gone after a younger version of Conine (for less money). Or, maybe, just maybe, he would have been tempted to spend $18M of that $23M that he squandered on dreck to sign Zito and give the Reds the dominant starting staff in the division (or league). (shrug)

Rem

According to Krivsky in today's Enquirer, they've been working on a LTC since last summer. Who knows why it took so long. As I noted last week when Myers signed with Philly, maybe they all needed to see what Harang's market looked like.

I think the Reds are expecting the other pitchers to step up. I admit that's a huge question mark with Milton, although the brief times he was healthy, he was good last year. I'm a bit more hopeful for Lohse and a full year with us. I'm not among those who think he's a pile of garbage. We'll see how the fifth spot plays out. I like our candidates there better than last years.

There is no question that long term, this is great for the Reds. So rain away, I'll celebrate today and look forward to the Reds in the years ahead.

jojo
02-07-2007, 12:47 PM
However, it may have (possibly) effected Krivsky's approach to other deals if he had locked up Harang earlier and had more certainty about the long term. Maybe he wouldn't have gone after geriatric relievers. Or, maybe he would have gone after a younger version of Conine (for less money). Or, maybe, just maybe, he would have been tempted to spend $18M of that $23M that he squandered on dreck to sign Zito and give the Reds the dominant starting staff in the division (or league). (shrug)

Rem

Actually, i don't think this deal gets done until Krivsky knows what his other payroll commitments for '07 and '08 look like. Castellini has likely set a limit on payroll that probably is non-negotiable for Krivsky. So Krivsky has got to fill holes for the now and also extend Harang.

Basically, Harang was here in '07 for a known salary (at least the Reds knew what the worst case would be in arb) whether he was extended or not. Krivsky likely wanted to plug the leaks as best he could so that he knew what was left for Harang because extending him could actually give the reds extra wiggle room for '07 and '08 if they needed it depending upon how the money was spread over the final years.

edabbs44
02-07-2007, 12:51 PM
Actually, i don't think this deal gets done until Krivsky knows what his other payroll commitments for '07 and '08 look like. Castellini has likely set a limit on payroll that probably is non-negotiable for Krivsky. So Krivsky has got to fill holes for the now and also extend Harang.

This move was an absolute no-brainer and should have governed the future payroll commitments of the team, not the other way around. With how bad the pitching has been on this team over the recent past, not locking him up would have been a disaster.

Cyclone792
02-07-2007, 12:55 PM
I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation, the festival of junkballers in the bullpen, and a somewhat emasculated offense.

In the euphoria over locking up perhaps the best starter the Reds have had since Jose Rijo, perhaps it's a good idea to remember that.

Yep, I love the Harang contract as much as anyone else, and it absolutely needed to get done.

But you're absolutely right that the Reds did not directly improve in 2007 or 2008. This team was four key players short two days ago, and they're still four key players short today. We could use another league average or better starter for the rotation, another slugger for the offense, and two solid relievers for the bullpen that specialize in missing bats.

Additionally, Jerry Narron needs to figure out where to start certain specific players in order to maximize the lineup and defensive potential.

jojo
02-07-2007, 01:06 PM
This move was an absolute no-brainer and should have governed the future payroll commitments of the team, not the other way around. With how bad the pitching has been on this team over the recent past, not locking him up would have been a disaster.

This move will govern future payroll commitments obviously. But why should it have been done before everything else when extending Harang first might have prevented Krivsky from making another move he felt was necesary? Waiting until the roster was mostly set basically meant the Reds could spread Harang's money over the contract in a way that was more beneficial. To me it's not really a trivial detail.

edabbs44
02-07-2007, 01:13 PM
This move will govern future payroll commitments obviously. But why should it have been done before everything else when extending Harang first might have prevented Krivsky from making another move he felt was necesary? Waiting until the roster was mostly set basically meant the Reds could spread Harang's money over the contract in a way that was more beneficial. To me it's not really a trivial detail.

Harang should have been task #1 on his to do list. Picking up a Conine or Saarloos should have no bearing on what happens with Harang. Cincy isn't really in the business of doling out $100 million on FAs or trading for high-priced veterans, so this move didn't really need to wait since there isn't much to wait on, in the realm of major money deals. There should have been money earmarked for this situation by the latest last summer.

Puffy
02-07-2007, 01:21 PM
Yep, I love the Harang contract as much as anyone else, and it absolutely needed to get done.

But you're absolutely right that the Reds did not directly improve in 2007 or 2008. This team was four key players short two days ago, and they're still four key players short today. We could use another league average or better starter for the rotation, another slugger for the offense, and two solid relievers for the bullpen that specialize in missing bats.

Additionally, Jerry Narron needs to figure out where to start certain specific players in order to maximize the lineup and defensive potential.

Yup, and they were four key players short 4 months ago as well.

lollipopcurve
02-07-2007, 01:26 PM
There should have been money earmarked for this situation by the latest last summer.

And it made sense for Harang to wait until the new class of free agent pitchers were signed and his market value increased.

pedro
02-07-2007, 01:27 PM
IMO, the Reds aren't trying to win this year. They're trying to take advantage of a weak central to make it look like they are competitive so that attendance doesn't collapse while they position themselves for 2008. A lot of the stuff that Wayne has done, while being viewed as crap by a lot of folks, is still the type of stuff that other players think is "improvement" (as many players aren't necessarily what you'd call analytical) If the Reds tread water this year I think they'll have an easier time attracting a decent FA or two next offseason.

westofyou
02-07-2007, 01:31 PM
Creating a culture that makes a guy want to sign and stay where he is comfortable instead of chase the dollar and dreams elsewhere was a facet of baseball business that was exactly not being used to its fullest extent in Cincinnati.

Perhaps that's changed since the regime has changed, or perhaps it's just the luck of the draw.

dsmith421
02-07-2007, 01:33 PM
If the Reds tread water this year I think they'll have an easier time attracting a decent FA or two next offseason.

That's an interesting take, but the problem is that there's still a pretty good chance the Reds totally tank (as in, to the tune of 90+ losses), which I suspect would hurt their '08 FA chances as much as anything. Also, a lot of these cosmetic signings are players like Cormier, Stanton, etc. who are owed money in 2008 and unlikely to offer anything of value to a contending ballclub.

pedro
02-07-2007, 01:35 PM
That's an interesting take, but the problem is that there's still a pretty good chance the Reds totally tank (as in, to the tune of 90+ losses), which I suspect would hurt their '08 FA chances as much as anything. Also, a lot of these cosmetic signings are players like Cormier, Stanton, etc. who are owed money in 2008 and unlikely to offer anything of value to a contending ballclub.


I just don't see them losing 90 games. The central is just too weak for that to happen. They'll win between 75-80 games IMO.

15fan
02-07-2007, 02:39 PM
Or, maybe, just maybe, he would have been tempted to spend $18M of that $23M that he squandered on dreck to sign Zito and give the Reds the dominant starting staff in the division (or league). (shrug) Rem

Did someone say "Zito"?

On June 7, 2006, a crazy poster suggested putting anything & everything up to get Zito for the remainder of the year.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47061&highlight=Zito

Zito's numbers for June - September 2006: 154.2 IP, 160 H, 4.07 ERA.

The 2006 World Series champion St. Louis Cardinals edged out the Reds by 3.5 games.

Would 3.5 months of Barry Zito in Cincinnati been enough to change the outcomes of 4 games to put the Reds in the 2006 post-season?

westofyou
02-07-2007, 02:45 PM
Would 3.5 months of Barry Zito in Cincinnati been enough to change the outcomes of 4 games to put the Reds in the 2006 post-season?
Perhaps, but then again I'd bet my house that he'd have walked and signed on the coast.

Barry Zito is a real west coast guy, a grade A flake as well, plus a FB pitcher, and a guy who needs Cincinnati like a stick in the eye.

Caveat Emperor
02-07-2007, 02:50 PM
That's an interesting take, but the problem is that there's still a pretty good chance the Reds totally tank (as in, to the tune of 90+ losses), which I suspect would hurt their '08 FA chances as much as anything.

It gets lost in the shuffle, but a rotation that features Harang, Arroyo and 3 days of crap is still about on par with half the NL Central.

pedro
02-07-2007, 02:51 PM
Did someone say "Zito"?

On June 7, 2006, a crazy poster suggested putting anything & everything up to get Zito for the remainder of the year.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47061&highlight=Zito

Zito's numbers for June - September 2006: 154.2 IP, 160 H, 4.07 ERA.

The 2006 World Series champion St. Louis Cardinals edged out the Reds by 3.5 games.

Would 3.5 months of Barry Zito in Cincinnati been enough to change the outcomes of 4 games to put the Reds in the 2006 post-season?

perhaps, but at what cost? even with zito (or w/out "the trade" for that matter) I have a hard time the Reds would have done anything meaningful in the playoffs.

15fan
02-07-2007, 02:55 PM
Perhaps, but then again I'd bet my house that he'd have walked and signed on the coast.

That's fine. If the Reds acquired him and he walked, I'd take the comp picks in 2007. And the > .500 record. And the division title. And the post-season experience for the likes of Brandon Phillips, Adam Dunn, Ed E, etc.

If nothing else, it would have been a small price to pay so that we didn't have to see Jim Edmonds and Tony LaRussa as WS champs. :explode: :runawaycr and most especially... :barf:

Redsland
02-07-2007, 04:57 PM
I think one thing that may be lost in the shuffle here is that the Harang signing, while smart, does not directly improve the Cincinnati ballclub either this year or next. We still have the same top-heavy, no-depth starting rotation...
True, but here's (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070206/SPT04/302060044/1071/SPT04)what Wayne said about his rotation yesterday:

“That’s a good two-fifths (of a rotation),” Krivsky said. “(Kyle) Lohse and (Eric) Milton have to step up and whoever wins the fifth spot.

“But those two guys at the top is a good start.”
He basically comes right out and says that Milton (and Loshe) are not "good." On the plus side, that hopefully means that he's looking for better options to replace them with.

On the down side, you have to wonder why he offered arbitration to a guy who isn't, to paraphrase, "one-fifth of a good rotation."

pedro
02-07-2007, 05:03 PM
That's some encouraging candor from wayne. thanks for sharing.

edabbs44
02-07-2007, 05:10 PM
That's some encouraging candor from wayne. thanks for sharing.

Hey, at least the bullpen is fixed.

BRM
02-07-2007, 05:12 PM
Hey, at least the bullpen is fixed.

:help:

pedro
02-07-2007, 05:12 PM
Hey, at least the bullpen is fixed.

It's better than it was, though not as good as it needs to be.

BRM
02-07-2007, 05:14 PM
It's better than it was, though not as good as it needs to be.

I can go along with that.

edabbs44
02-07-2007, 05:16 PM
It's better than it was, though not as good as it needs to be.

Without a doubt better. My doubt is should so much attention been paid to that area when WK is admitting that only 2/5 of the rotation is set?

pedro
02-07-2007, 05:22 PM
Without a doubt better. My doubt is should so much attention been paid to that area when WK is admitting that only 2/5 of the rotation is set?

just looking at this offseason and considering what the market was for FA pitchers, I'm not sure that there was much the Reds could have done. Although I do think that packaging Freel with some prospects for a SP and signing a FA OF might not have been a bad move.

vaticanplum
02-07-2007, 07:49 PM
“That’s a good two-fifths (of a rotation),” Krivsky said. “(Kyle) Lohse and (Eric) Milton have to step up and whoever wins the fifth spot.

“But those two guys at the top is a good start.”

I read this today at lunch and about spit out my food.

I really don't think this administration is as delusional as many others do. I think they know exactly what needs to get done for this team, and they're honest with the public about it. They're just faced with a distinct obstacle that we're not from our armchairs: the financial and tangible reality of getting what they know needs to be done, done.

edabbs44
02-07-2007, 08:03 PM
just looking at this offseason and considering what the market was for FA pitchers, I'm not sure that there was much the Reds could have done. Although I do think that packaging Freel with some prospects for a SP and signing a FA OF might not have been a bad move.

Until Cincy can "afford" decent starting pitching, start to aggressively target young pitching through trades or make it a top priority in the draft and international FA market, this franchise will start each season behind the 8 ball.

Arroyo-type transactions are pretty rare.

Shopping Freel would have been a pretty good move. It could have opened up a spot for Denorfia and then they could have went after Wilson to split time with Hatteberg and Griffey. Then Shafer could have remained since the need for Saarloos would have been reduced and Conine would have been nowhere near this team.

And I saw a quote from WK on the net today saying that Saarloos could be a fit in the bullpen. I almost died.


With the Reds, the right-hander could be vying for a role as either a starter or reliever.

"Either one, we'll see how he does in Spring Training," Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said. "He's succeeded doing both. He's a versatile guy and a ground-ball pitcher."

RFS62
02-07-2007, 08:11 PM
Don't know if this has already been posted, but Harang was on XM this afternoon, and he said "We've been working on a deal since right after the all star break last year".

jojo
02-07-2007, 08:15 PM
Harang should have been task #1 on his to do list. Picking up a Conine or Saarloos should have no bearing on what happens with Harang. Cincy isn't really in the business of doling out $100 million on FAs or trading for high-priced veterans, so this move didn't really need to wait since there isn't much to wait on, in the realm of major money deals. There should have been money earmarked for this situation by the latest last summer.

There obviously was money earmarked for Harang. Worst case scenario, he was getiting around $5M this year but who knows next year. I think you're getting caught up in the symbolism while discounting the practical. Harang shouldn't have been the #1 task. He wasn't going anywhere either way. Signing him first might have limited Krivsky in ways that were unforseen-especially for next year. Waiting till the roster is basically set allowed the reds and Harang to figure out a way to divy up the moola in a way that was most advantageous to the Reds roster efforts for '07 and '08 while frankly being little hair off of Harang's back. This is something that could've waited even longer. Signing/trading guys for the roster obviously couldn't. Once again the symbolism is of little value and frankly could've been detrimental.

jojo
02-07-2007, 08:18 PM
And I saw a quote from WK on the net today saying that Saarloos could be a fit in the bullpen. I almost died.

why did that surprise you?

edabbs44
02-07-2007, 08:37 PM
why did that surprise you?

Because there is an opening in the rotation and WK has added a multitude of medicore bullpen arms already.

Matt700wlw
02-08-2007, 05:25 PM
Don't know if this has already been posted, but Harang was on XM this afternoon, and he said "We've been working on a deal since right after the all star break last year".

Good to know that Wayne Krivsky doesn't have a stupid rule about NOT talking contracts during the season....