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Tom Servo
02-10-2007, 08:54 AM
Wayne got criticized for the deals he gave to A-Gon and Stanton, and now I find this.


http://www.insidebayarea.com/turn2/ci_5200948


-The money Kansas City gave Gil Meche is nothing compared with what the Cincinnati Reds did this week, awarding Aaron Harang four years at $36.5 million and Bronson Arroyo two years and $25 million. Just incredible.



http://www.wgr550.com/column.php?id=0420


- Pitcher Bronson Arroyo and the Cincinnati Reds agree to a 2-year contract extension worth 30 million dollars. The entire Reds Organization gets really wasted playing a new drinking game "Do a shot for every million we overpay Pitcher Bronson Arroyo".


So basically it's okay when other teams spend money (and sign Gil Meche for 5 bleepin' years), but when the Reds sign guys they're the ones driving up the market and overpaying. :angry::explode:

Krusty
02-10-2007, 09:59 AM
Sports jock radio. Just as bad as some sports internet boards.

dougdirt
02-10-2007, 10:12 AM
So Aaron Harang at a little over 9 million a year is worse than Gil Meche at 11 million a year?
Gil Meche has a lifetime ERA of 4.65 and a career WHIP of 1.44.
Aaron Harang has a lifetime ERA of 4.28 and a career WHIP of 1.35.

Meche has never had an ERA under 4.00 in a season where he pitched more than 100 innings, Harang has had them back to back. Maybe I missed something here.....

TOBTTReds
02-10-2007, 10:22 AM
I just think no one has heard of Harang. That's it. Arroyo seems like a fluke to some.

They are idiots basically.

KoryMac5
02-10-2007, 10:23 AM
Gotta love that SanFran hipocracy in that 7yrs 126 million was a bargain for Zito. The amount of $$$ San Fran paid for one pitcher we got basically two pitchers.

MWM
02-10-2007, 10:47 AM
How anyone could criticize the Harang deal is beyond me. That's a great deal for the Reds. Giving a pitcher 4 years is always a risk, but in Harang's case it's not a big one. I can understand the hesitation for the Arroyo deal from some people, simply because last year was his first REALLY good year. But I still think it was the right deal to make for the Reds and the dollars aren't such that this type of hyperbole is warranted. The sports media as a whole these days is what the real joke is about.

reds44
02-10-2007, 10:49 AM
Steve Stone was on 670 the score in Chicago the other day ripping the Harang deal. I think some peope just precieve we have no pitchers.

acredsfan
02-10-2007, 10:49 AM
I just think no one has heard of Harang. That's it. Arroyo seems like a fluke to some.

They are idiots basically.Exactly, Harang continues to fly under the radar. He is a very modest, quiet player, just the kind that the "talking heads" hate. We just have to take it with a grain of salt and hope we are right. Harang led the league in so many categories last year, but nobody heard about him because he doesn't make any memorable statements with his tongue, but rather his play. In the case of Arroyo, you can't tell me that if Boston signed him to this extension that they wouldn't be praised for getting such a deal and being bargaining geniuses. Wayne has impressed me with his contracts and I believe he deserves credit on these two contracts. He locked them up at a seemingly good rate and also gave them a chance to perform and improve their contracts with incentives.

Heath
02-10-2007, 11:04 AM
Rotoworld on Arroyo -


Reds agreed to terms with RHP Bronson Arroyo on a two-year, $25 million contract extension with an option for 2011.
Not as good of an idea as the Aaron Harang extension, mainly because Arroyo was already signed at $8.075 million through the next two years. The Reds are giving him a $2.5 million signing bonus (paid in 2008), $9.5 million in 2009 and $11 million in 2010. The option for 2011 will be worth at least $11 million and includes a $2 million buyout. Arroyo was a legitimate Cy Young candidate last year, but National Leaguers will adapt to his breaking ball-heavy arsenal just like the AL did. He might be little more than a fourth starter by the end of the deal. Feb. 8 - 12:32 pm et

You can bet if he had signed with Boston, the above tune would have changed.

Rotoworld on Harang -

Aaron Harang is guaranteed $36.5 million under the terms of the four-year deal he signed with the Reds on Tuesday.
That sum includes the buyout of a club option for 2011. The amount seems more than fair. Harang was going to make around $5 million this year and would have earned about $8 million in 2008 with another fine year. Therefore, the Reds are getting his first two years of free agency, along with an option on the third, for about $24 million.

That's about the nicest thing that Rotoworld has ever said about the Reds.

Rotoworld especially has lost all credibility with me after the Josh Hamilton fiasco. They praise the Cubs to high heaven, and when the Reds grabbed him it was a "so-so" move.

Heath
02-10-2007, 11:05 AM
Steve Stone was on 670 the score in Chicago the other day ripping the Harang deal. I think some peope just precieve we have no pitchers.

He's pissed because Harang's not a Cub.

He's better than probably anybody on their staff.

(BTW - Opening Day should be Zambrano vs. Harang.)

reds44
02-10-2007, 11:06 AM
Reds agreed to terms with RHP Bronson Arroyo on a two-year, $25 million contract extension with an option for 2011.
Not as good of an idea as the Aaron Harang extension, mainly because Arroyo was already signed at $8.075 million through the next two years. The Reds are giving him a $2.5 million signing bonus (paid in 2008), $9.5 million in 2009 and $11 million in 2010. The option for 2011 will be worth at least $11 million and includes a $2 million buyout. Arroyo was a legitimate Cy Young candidate last year, but National Leaguers will adapt to his breaking ball-heavy arsenal just like the AL did. He might be little more than a fourth starter by the end of the deal. Feb. 8 - 12:32 pm et

His 2.45 ERA in September shows they were figuring out his curveball.

reds44
02-10-2007, 11:06 AM
He's pissed because Harang's not a Cub.

He's better than probably anybody on their staff.

(BTW - Opening Day should be Zambrano vs. Harang.)
A rematch of last year. Boy, that was a real pitchers duel. ;)

Heath
02-10-2007, 11:10 AM
His 2.45 ERA in September shows they were figuring out his curveball.

Yeah, 35 starts, then winning 6 of his last 9 in 2006.

He sucks. :rolleyes:

His home/away splits are something else. For some odd reason, Arroyo pitched so much better in Cincinnati then he did in the road. I just think that is odd.

Matt700wlw
02-10-2007, 11:22 AM
I'll take what the Reds did with Harang and Arroyo over the ungodly overpaying for Meche and Lily.

Sea Ray
02-10-2007, 11:27 AM
Steve Stone was on 670 the score in Chicago the other day ripping the Harang deal. I think some peope just precieve we have no pitchers.

If he said that then he still doesn't get it. As he was in the midst of getting fired by WGN, I think it was late in the 2005 season, and the Reds were mowing down the Cubs pennant hopes, Steve Stone was lambasting the Cubs for not being able to beat pitchers like Aaron Harang. I remember him saying something like the Cubs hitters are intimidated by his size but in reality he just throws junk.

I would have thought he would have realized his error in judgement by looking at Harang's year in 2006. He led the league in strike outs and wins while pitching for a sub .500 team with arguably the worst bullpen in the league. He consistently throws 93 MPH with nice movement and doesn't walk a lot of people. Those kind of pitchers don't grow on trees.

dougdirt
02-10-2007, 11:30 AM
I think we overpaid too soon for Arroyo. I think we got a deal on Harang though.

Marc D
02-10-2007, 11:30 AM
I'm not really sick of it because I stopped paying attention to talking heads regarding sports a long time ago. That said anyone questioning the Harang deal doesn't know what they are talking about. I can see an argument against the Arroyo deal, I have thought it myself. It all comes down to him being a version of the '06 Arroyo from here on out or the pre-'06 Arroyo from here on out. Even if he bombs the money vs his production certainly won't be Miltonesque.

KronoRed
02-10-2007, 11:34 AM
His 2.45 ERA in September shows they were figuring out his curveball.

5.45 in July and 4.78 in August ;)

Also look at Arroyo career stats, one year is not like the others, it's last year.

That's not to say he's defiantly going to start sucking wind, but it is a legitimate possibility that last year was a "career year"

Lets hope not :D

paintmered
02-10-2007, 11:35 AM
I would have thought he would have realized his error in judgement by looking at Harang's year in 2006. He led the league in strike outs and wins while pitching for a sub .500 team with arguably the worst bullpen in the league. He consistently throws 93 MPH with nice movement and doesn't walk a lot of people. Those kind of pitchers don't grow on trees.

Not to mention he logged over 230 innings with a sub 4.00 ERA and a sub 1.3 WHIP last year. Now we've got him locked up over his prime years. How his performance goes unnoticed by the talking heads is a mystery. We all know his true value, and he's worth his weight in gold.

What is the PECOTA projection for him this year? My guess is 218 innings, 19-9 with a 3.58 ERA and 1.23 WHIP.

jojo
02-10-2007, 11:38 AM
I just think no one has heard of Harang. That's it. Arroyo seems like a fluke to some.

They are idiots basically.

It all depends upon how you're evaluating Arroyo. If you're using ERA, his '06 was a fluke.

But really, why care what some hack in Buffalo thinks about the red's roster/payroll?

westofyou
02-10-2007, 11:39 AM
Not to mention he logged over 230 innings with a sub 4.00 ERA and a sub 1.3 WHIP last year. Now we've got him locked up over his prime years. How his performance goes unnoticed by the talking heads is a mystery. We all know his true value, and he's worth his weight in gold.

What is the PECOTA projection for him this year? My guess is 218 innings, 19-9 with a 3.58 ERA and 1.23 WHIP.

Higher ERA, (EQA ERA 4,10)

Pecota pegs Bronson for a VORP of 29, Harang 22 and Zito 24.

Gil Mech?

3.9

mth123
02-10-2007, 11:46 AM
5.45 in July and 4.78 in August ;)

Also look at Arroyo career stats, one year is not like the others, it's last year.

That's not to say he's defiantly going to start sucking wind, but it is a legitimate possibility that last year was a "career year"

Lets hope not :D

Its been noted on here that Arroyo's K Rates have been up and down and his results have fluctuated with them. Last year his BABIP was .274 so he could regress a little, but what's the fuss?

Say he falls to a 200 inning guy with an ERA of 4.30, that is still not a bad contract for that (a decent number 3 starter). Lesser pitchers are making more and that will continue for the life of this deal.

I've been pretty critical this off-season but the Harang and Arroyo deals are both bargains in this market. The Reds only have one chance to get some one as good for less or similar money and that will be if Bailey pans out. These were fine deals that have gone a long way toward setting the team up for a run in a couple years.

I like these deals so much that I am excited for the season again and can't wait to see which other players fall into place for a 2009 contention time frame. The team will need to sift through some of the vets before some other building blocks get a shot, but 2007 is about finding pieces for the future and with these deals, that no longer seems pointless.

RedEye
02-10-2007, 12:09 PM
Its been noted on here that Arroyo's K Rates have been up and down and his results have fluctuated with them. Last year his BABIP was .274 so he could regress a little, but what's the fuss?

Say he falls to a 200 inning guy with an ERA of 4.30, that is still not a bad contract for that (a decent number 3 starter). Lesser pitchers are making more and that will continue for the life of this deal.


This is one of the better analyses of the Arroyo deal that I've seen:

http://jinaz-reds.blogspot.com/

It is interesting to compare his 2004 season and his 2006 season, especially in terms of ERA and FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching). In 2004, his ERA was 4.03 but his FIP was 3.64--a bit unlucky. Last year, they were 3.29 and 4.14 respectively. What that means is that Arroyo was EXTREMELY lucky last year. Strangely enough his defense bailed him out more than it ever has in his short career. However, it also means that his pitching didn't get dramatically better than other years; his luck is what got better.

I take it that if Arroyo remains the same pitcher that he has been the last three seasons (his three full seasons in the major leagues), he will probably post a FIP somewhere between 3.50 and 4.50. While another 3.29 season is statistically unlikely, I think it is reasonable to expect him to be around 4.00. That makes him a solid #3 with potential (with luck) to post a better result. That's nothing to scoff at, especially in this day and age when there are very few truly dominant starting pitchers.

I'm with most people on this board. I think the Reds overpaid, but not egregiously so. If Arroyo can be what he has been for the next four years, we will have a solid, complementary starter to build around. His arsenal of curveballs will look that much more dangerous when they come the day after a Harang or a Bailey. I think that's what Wayne is banking on, and that's why he did what he did.

Razor Shines
02-10-2007, 12:16 PM
Steve Stone was on 670 the score in Chicago the other day ripping the Harang deal. I think some peope just precieve we have no pitchers.

That's because Steve Stone's purpose in life is to hate the Reds and get as many people to hate the Reds as possible.

Eric_Davis
02-10-2007, 01:09 PM
If analysts/sportswriters didn't criticize things, they wouldn't have a job.

deltachi8
02-10-2007, 01:19 PM
But really, why care what some hack in Buffalo thinks about the red's roster/payroll?

Well, here is one hack from Buffalo's opinion...mine.

The Harrang deal is just right. I think the Reds paid exactly his market value for the years tied to him and it will work for both sides. Almost an ideal contract in a way.

Arroyo, I am not so sure I would have extended him when I isolate him completely. I guess I would have liked to see another year or at least 1/2 year to be convinced that 06 was not a fluke. However, in the larger scope, I have no problem with the deal because I think the message it sends to the team and baseball in general is that the reds are willing to spend money to get a winner.

So, i give Wayne two thumbs up on these signings.

vaticanplum
02-10-2007, 01:27 PM
I feel sorry for Harang that he continues to be underrated by people who should know better, but I personally would rather the Reds be overlooked than hated. I don't think sportswriters have any malice towards them; I think there are just 30 teams in baseball and when a team has a losing record six years in a row they stop truly paying attention. Fine by me. The Reds can surprise if they want to.

BuckeyeRedleg
02-10-2007, 02:22 PM
The Harang re-signing is probably the best deal of the off-season.

Only a casual baseball fan that needs everything spoon fed to them could criticize that deal.

Strikes Out Looking
02-10-2007, 02:41 PM
Those critical of these signings are probably the same fools that predicted the Reds to finish last in '06 and will likely predict them last in '07. They will also tell you that the Cards and the Cubs are the clear favorites in the Central. They are nothing but noise pollution when on the airwaves and cyber polluters when on the 'net.

Harang should have been at worst, top 3 for Cy Young last year, yet he got very few votes.

I say let them spout their nonsense and then when the Reds beath their favorite teams with fine pitching performances (remember when Harang outdueled the great Chris Carpenter last year?), we'll all have a laugh.

harangatang
02-10-2007, 02:45 PM
Who cares the Reds have one of the best 1-2 punches in MLB. Whether anyone acknowledges the fact doesn't bother me.

jojo
02-10-2007, 03:31 PM
What is the PECOTA projection for him this year? My guess is 218 innings, 19-9 with a 3.58 ERA and 1.23 WHIP.

Pecota thinks this about Harang in '07: W-L: 12-10; ERA: 4.21; 190 IP with no downside.

A summary of the 5 gold standard projection systems available: W-L: 13-11; ERA: 4.12; 208 IP.

Concerning Harang and Arroyo in '07: Basically all of the projection systems think they could be twins performance-wise this season.

My take on the two and their contracts:

Evaluating Arroyo on his '06 ERA will cause him to be overvalued. It was a fluky ERA driven in large part by a high LOB%. Dismissing his '06 as a fluke overall is not appropriate however ('06 mlb average for starters: FIP: 4.60; ERA: 4.60...Arroyo's '06 FIP: 4.14). He was an above average starting pitcher and will likely be one again this season. He's not a #1 by any stretch but he's pretty valuable and an absolute value relative to his salary. I'm not in love with his extension though. Its risky because by the final two years he's much more likely to simply be average or slightly below so there's a good chance he'll be overpaid. Even so having an average innings eater is a useful thing and there is something to be said for making a guy happy...those final two years are in a way making up for the extreme bargain they're getting right now. So while I'm not giddy about his extension, I'm not bothered that much by it either.

Harang is absolutely what you see is what you get based upon his '06 (ERA: 3.76;FIP: 3.64). He might be one of the more underrated pitchers in the league if you surveyed casual fans or lazy talking heads who don't do their homework. I can guarantee you though there wouldn't be a GM in the league who wouldn't want him given his current contract (except maybe Florida but there are probably car dealerships in Cincinnati that have more inventory than the Marlins have payroll). I really like Harang's contract. While I think he's not going to develop into anything more than he already is (and I think many Reds fans overestimate what he will become), I think there is a great chance that he will justify it with his performance over the course of it. What he is already, is very good. He basically projects to consistently be the guy we saw in '06 for the next several years. Ya, I say. Thats a great thing. A lot of GMs are jealous.


Pecota pegs Bronson for a VORP of 29, Harang 22 and Zito 24.

On a side note, VORP is a poor metric to evaluate pitchers. It's basically a fancy combination of ERA and innings pitched and the flaws in ERA have been long discussed here and other places.

All that said, the way it was used in the above context doesn't bother me since it's basically saying Bronson and Harang are projected to be better than Meche in the future. VORP in and of itself however, has little predictive power and is really a pretty flawed stat for pitchers.

savafan
02-10-2007, 04:56 PM
These are the kind of comments that should be hung up in the clubhouse to motivate this team to taking the Central Division this year.

Always Red
02-10-2007, 05:28 PM
Do you think Boston would make the same trade as last spring, in reverse, right now, with Arroyo's extended contract? In other words Arroyo back for Pena (and I think we gave them some cash, too, IIRC), with Arroyo's new deal in force?

I think Boston would gladly make that trade in order to get Arroyo back.

Sour grapes! When I was 14 years old I could hear the dejection in Curt Gowdy's voice as he announced Geronimo catching the last out of the '75 Series.

I can hear it, still.

For teams and fans of both coasts and Chicago, teams like the little old Reds (and the Royals, too) are considered fodder, simply to beat up on and to resupply their own teams with rising stars.

I pay no never mind to those types.:thumbdown

flyer85
02-10-2007, 05:52 PM
Wayne got criticized for the deals he gave to A-Gon and Stanton,
they were marginal deals but criticizing WK for the Harang/Arroyo deals in light of the market is ludicrous. WKs best skill to this point in his GM career would seem to be contract negotiations.

savafan
02-10-2007, 05:52 PM
What all of those other teams should remember is that they would be no where were it not for the Reds.

jojo
02-10-2007, 06:54 PM
Do you think Boston would make the same trade as last spring, in reverse, right now, with Arroyo's extended contract? In other words Arroyo back for Pena (and I think we gave them some cash, too, IIRC), with Arroyo's new deal in force?

I think Boston would gladly make that trade in order to get Arroyo back.

Actually, no I don't think Boston would make the same trade in reverse-especially in light of Arroyo's extension. This season is exactly why they made the trade in the firstplace. Pena will play alot in '07 and he basically is much more valuable to them as a position player than Arroyo would be as a starter given their depth in the rotation (BoSox depth chart for the rotation: Schilling, Becket, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Papelbon). Who ever thought Pena would be valuble as roster glue?

Phhhl
02-10-2007, 08:59 PM
These clowns aren't going to get my blood pressure up. The distinct possibility remains that one, or both, of these deals could backfire on the Reds. It's a risk whenever a pitcher gets a long term deal. But, if Harang and Arroyo were free agent pitchers on the open market this year they would have probably cashed in on even bigger money from larger market clubs. That is not even disputable based on they money inferior pitchers like Meche and Lilly actually recieved.

There is a big pink elephant in the room that nobody in the media seems to want to talk about when they take their wild swings at certain teams. And, that is the ridiculous disparity in the spending power between about 30% of the league and the other 70%. Teams like the Reds are criticized for driving player salaries up with moves like these, but the Yanks, Cubs and Sawks can do it all winter and get a bunch of gold stars.

Not only are you NOT supposed to be competitive. You are not even supposed to try. It's a joke.

Will M
02-10-2007, 09:13 PM
I tend to ignore the national media. Most of them are idiots or obsessed with the east and west coast teams. their opinions of what the Reds do or don't do are not that valid ( IMO ).

Willy
02-10-2007, 09:51 PM
I look at the Arroyo extention like this:

Could the Reds sign a better pitcher in 2009 to a Two year $25 Million contract?

I doubt it, especially what this offseason showed me.

Good job Wayne!

mth123
02-10-2007, 09:58 PM
I look at the Arroyo extention like this:

Could the Reds sign a better pitcher in 2009 to a Two year $25 Million contract?

I doubt it, especially what this offseason showed me.

Good job Wayne!

Agreed

dougdirt
02-11-2007, 11:24 AM
Actually, no I don't think Boston would make the same trade in reverse-especially in light of Arroyo's extension. This season is exactly why they made the trade in the firstplace. Pena will play alot in '07 and he basically is much more valuable to them as a position player than Arroyo would be as a starter given their depth in the rotation (BoSox depth chart for the rotation: Schilling, Becket, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Papelbon). Who ever thought Pena would be valuble as roster glue?

I doubt Pena plays a lot next year. Where is he going to play in the Boston outfield. He isnt going to DH either....Sure JD Drew probably has a 50% chance of getting hurt, but thats about the only way I see WMP getting some PT.

reds44
02-11-2007, 12:57 PM
If he said that then he still doesn't get it. As he was in the midst of getting fired by WGN, I think it was late in the 2005 season, and the Reds were mowing down the Cubs pennant hopes, Steve Stone was lambasting the Cubs for not being able to beat pitchers like Aaron Harang. I remember him saying something like the Cubs hitters are intimidated by his size but in reality he just throws junk.

I would have thought he would have realized his error in judgement by looking at Harang's year in 2006. He led the league in strike outs and wins while pitching for a sub .500 team with arguably the worst bullpen in the league. He consistently throws 93 MPH with nice movement and doesn't walk a lot of people. Those kind of pitchers don't grow on trees.
I just don't know how you look at the deals that Lilly, Meche, and Marquis got and call the Harang signing a bad deal. It really makes no sense to me. The Arrouo deal could be debated, but not the Harang deal. I would have much rather overpaid for Arroyo the last couple years, then just let him walk even if he is going to come back to work. I think Wayne compensated for the fact he was being underpaid the first few years of that deal. Whether he should have done that or not is what can be argued.

One thing that would be nice on both Harang and Arroyo this year is if the bullpen is improved and there arms aren't abused by like July which they were last year. Arroyo threw 245 innings last year, that is nuts.

KoryMac5
02-14-2007, 05:42 PM
I was tired of the bad press and misinformation about the Reds contracts so I contacted the writer from one of the articles here is his reply.

Hey Kory...sorry about the lateness of my reply.
I'm not a baseball guy.... as much as a guy who just screws around on
the radio.

I am a hockey guy...and when you compare baseball contracts to hockey
contracts...the numbers are dumbfounding.
Of course, baseball owners have more money to play with so it's
probably all relative.

Thanks for the correction and input though.


My email to him:

The skinny on the contract:

Two days after signing their No. 1 starter through at least 2010, the
Reds made the same move with No. 1A. Right-hander Bronson Arroyo agreed
to a two-year extension Thursday with an option for 2011.

That means Arroyo and Aaron Harang will be in the rotation for at least
the next four years.

The new deal pushes Arroyo's deal to $33.07 million, including the
buyout. It pledged $25 million in new money. The deal is an extension
of
the three-year deal Arroyo signed with Boston Jan. 19 of last year. It
was to pay him $3.8 million this season.

Hard to argue with $33Million over 4 years.

It's not two years at 15 per like you mentioned in your blog. There
is no way the Reds could spend that much. Arroyo is a bargain when
you
consider the contract as a whole 4yrs 33million. Especially when guys
like Meche and Marquis got such terrible deals. It must be hard not
having a baseball team in Buffalo but I guess it gives you the option
of
ripping who ever you choose. I do love debate though.

Kory

westofyou
02-14-2007, 05:45 PM
I am a hockey guy...and when you compare baseball contracts to hockey contracts...the numbers are dumbfounding.

Rick DiPietro sez Hey.

Chip R
02-14-2007, 11:00 PM
I was tired of the bad press and misinformation about the Reds contracts so I contacted the writer from one of the articles here is his reply.

Hey Kory...sorry about the lateness of my reply.
I'm not a baseball guy.... as much as a guy who just screws around on
the radio.

I am a hockey guy...and when you compare baseball contracts to hockey
contracts...the numbers are dumbfounding.
Of course, baseball owners have more money to play with so it's
probably all relative.

Thanks for the correction and input though.


My email to him:

The skinny on the contract:

Two days after signing their No. 1 starter through at least 2010, the
Reds made the same move with No. 1A. Right-hander Bronson Arroyo agreed
to a two-year extension Thursday with an option for 2011.

That means Arroyo and Aaron Harang will be in the rotation for at least
the next four years.

The new deal pushes Arroyo's deal to $33.07 million, including the
buyout. It pledged $25 million in new money. The deal is an extension
of
the three-year deal Arroyo signed with Boston Jan. 19 of last year. It
was to pay him $3.8 million this season.

Hard to argue with $33Million over 4 years.

It's not two years at 15 per like you mentioned in your blog. There
is no way the Reds could spend that much. Arroyo is a bargain when
you
consider the contract as a whole 4yrs 33million. Especially when guys
like Meche and Marquis got such terrible deals. It must be hard not
having a baseball team in Buffalo but I guess it gives you the option
of
ripping who ever you choose. I do love debate though.

Kory


Good for you, Kory. Did he put a correction in his blog?

bottom_feeder
02-15-2007, 11:38 AM
Some people feel that the Arroyo deal was bad, or perhaps the Reds should've waited to extend him. I can see their line of reasoning, since Arroyo is already locked up "cheap".

However, I think we need to look at the human side of this. Arroyo just saw Harang get a big contract. He's not going to be happy being locked into his below market deal for the next 2 years. If the Red decided to wait, he probably makes up his mind to bolt town as soon as possible.

The Reds went ahead and extended him, which is going to make him happy and buy his loyalty. This is so refreshing after seeing the Reds act like cheapskates over the years. Remember when the Reds took Casey to arbitration over a couple hundred grand, and how it changed Casey's attitude towards the club? I don't want Arroyo to get an attitude like that. I want the Reds to change their image from being cheapskate lowballers.

Sure, extending Arroyo now has some risk, but in my mind even if he just becomes a league average pitcher, the market value for those guys on the free agent market now is about 8-9 million (look at what Marquis got). In two years, a Marquis pitcher may get the 10-11 million. So I see the worst case being that if Arroyo declines, he may be getting overpaid 2-3 million/year. That's not bad at all. We need pitching so badly, that I am happy the Reds decided to take a risk and sign Arroyo.