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View Full Version : Big Ten Commish speaks about SEC



Playadlc
02-12-2007, 11:59 AM
"I love speed and the SEC has great speed, especially on the defensive line, but there are appropriate balances when mixing academics and athletics. Each school, as well as each conference, simply must do what fits their mission regardless of what a recruiting service recommends. I wish we had six teams among the top 10 recruiting classes every year, but winning our way requires some discipline and restraint with the recruitment process. Not every athlete fits athletically, academically or socially at every university. Fortunately, we have been able to balance our athletic and academic mission so that we can compete successfully and keep faith with our academic standards.

The complete statement is here:

http://bigten.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020907aaa.html

Now, there is no doubt some truth in what he says, but this is just a very bizarre statement to make by Delaney. I also fail to see how this scud missile attack on the integrity of another conference advances the interests of the Big Ten.

WVRed
02-12-2007, 04:22 PM
"I love speed and the SEC has great speed, especially on the defensive line, but there are appropriate balances when mixing academics and athletics. Each school, as well as each conference, simply must do what fits their mission regardless of what a recruiting service recommends. I wish we had six teams among the top 10 recruiting classes every year, but winning our way requires some discipline and restraint with the recruitment process. Not every athlete fits athletically, academically or socially at every university. Fortunately, we have been able to balance our athletic and academic mission so that we can compete successfully and keep faith with our academic standards.

The complete statement is here:

http://bigten.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020907aaa.html

Now, there is no doubt some truth in what he says, but this is just a very bizarre statement to make by Delaney. I also fail to see how this scud missile attack on the integrity of another conference advances the interests of the Big Ten.


Do I sense some sour grapes over the national championship?

This is in no way shape or form directed at Buckeye fans, but at Delaney.

Caseyfan21
02-12-2007, 08:18 PM
Yeah, I'm a huge Bucks fan and a Big 10 fan, but this just sounds like he is a little sour about the Natn'l Championship and the recent recruiting season.

George Foster
02-12-2007, 09:08 PM
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

What a baby....sorry you can't compete. Basketball, football, baseball,track&field, etc.

Sounds like the big Ten needs a new commish. All division 1 athletes have the same minimal grade requirements to play D-1 sports.

What was Maurice Clarett's SAT score??? Please.....

I promise you if the #1 highschool football player in the nation scores the minimal SAT score required by the NCAA...he gets in at OSU, Michigan, M.State, Illinois, etc. The only exception is Notre Dame, they are a private university.

OesterPoster
02-12-2007, 10:10 PM
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

What a baby....sorry you can't compete. Basketball, football, baseball,track&field, etc.

Sounds like the big Ten needs a new commish. All division 1 athletes have the same minimal grade requirements to play D-1 sports.

What was Maurice Clarett's SAT score??? Please.....

I promise you if the #1 highschool football player in the nation scores the minimal SAT score required by the NCAA...he gets in at OSU, Michigan, M.State, Illinois, etc. The only exception is Notre Dame, they are a private university.

Ohio State and Michigan have vastly different academic criteria for recruits when compared to Michigan State. MSU takes anyone and everyone who passes the NCAA Clearinghouse. OSU and UM do not take anyone and everyone. Usually each year, Tressel gets one or two recruits who he gets to present to a special acceptance committee if they haven't met the "OSU requirements". If they pass admissions for OSU, then they're in. It's not as easy as you think. Just ask Dajuan Morgan, Josh Chichester, Brandon McKinney, etc.

Cedric
02-12-2007, 10:14 PM
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

What a baby....sorry you can't compete. Basketball, football, baseball,track&field, etc.

Sounds like the big Ten needs a new commish. All division 1 athletes have the same minimal grade requirements to play D-1 sports.

What was Maurice Clarett's SAT score??? Please.....

I promise you if the #1 highschool football player in the nation scores the minimal SAT score required by the NCAA...he gets in at OSU, Michigan, M.State, Illinois, etc. The only exception is Notre Dame, they are a private university.

Maurice Clarett had a great gpa and great scores. Nice try though.

Other than Michigan State there is no comparison with SEC schools and the Big Ten. The gap is widening also.
The #1 recruit does not get into Ohio State or Michigan as easily as you might believe. Jim Tressel has not been able to recruit some of the best players in the nation recently because of major changes in admission policy. That's a fact.
The SEC oversigns and you can look at Tennessee 06 class as proof.

westofyou
02-12-2007, 10:16 PM
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

What a baby....sorry you can't compete. Basketball, football, baseball,track&field, etc.


SEC Hockey sucks

Reds Freak
02-12-2007, 10:34 PM
I applaud the guy for saying that if that was the reality. But my guess is the reality is that administrators in these big time athletic departments and conferences have zero interest in their athletes academic performance so long as it doesn't create negative publicity to affect potential incoming athletes.

Superior athletes = championships = good reputation = $$$$$$

No where in that equation is education or an academic mission...

George Foster
02-12-2007, 11:47 PM
Usually each year, Tressel gets one or two recruits who he gets to present to a special acceptance committee if they haven't met the "OSU requirements".

Either you have requirements or not. Which is it? If you are really, really good the "special acceptance committee" will get you in school? :laugh:

LoganBuck
02-13-2007, 12:17 AM
Either you have requirements or not. Which is it? If you are really, really good the "special acceptance committee" will get you in school? :laugh:

Case in point: Major Wright a top ranked safety out of Florida. A US Army All-American. He loved his trip up to the OSU-Michigan game, and wanted to commit. Tressel could not take his commitment at that time because he had not qualified for Ohio State's acceptance criteria. Tressel told him to work hard. Wright went back worked hard, but was still borderline once grades were posted in January. Urban Meyer could take him on the spot no questions asked, Tressel could not guarantee that Wright would be admitted. Wright really wanted to go to Ohio State, but given the possible uncertainty of his admission, he chose Florida.

In fairness Tressel is given two "passes", these are for kids that are really close academically, not for longshots. Supposedly those two passes were used this year on players of similar value to Wright. I won't name them, but if you have followed OSU recruiting this year you will know who they are.

George Foster
02-13-2007, 12:48 AM
Case in point: Major Wright a top ranked safety out of Florida. A US Army All-American. He loved his trip up to the OSU-Michigan game, and wanted to commit. Tressel could not take his commitment at that time because he had not qualified for Ohio State's acceptance criteria. Tressel told him to work hard. Wright went back worked hard, but was still borderline once grades were posted in January. Urban Meyer could take him on the spot no questions asked, Tressel could not guarantee that Wright would be admitted. Wright really wanted to go to Ohio State, but given the possible uncertainty of his admission, he chose Florida.

In fairness Tressel is given two "passes", these are for kids that are really close academically, not for longshots. Supposedly those two passes were used this year on players of similar value to Wright. I won't name them, but if you have followed OSU recruiting this year you will know who they are.

If this is the case OSU is shooting themselves in the foot. They don't have requirements, because they make exceptions. A requirement is a requirement. "I don't cheat on my wife...except every odd year during a month that starts with the letter J." If this is the case....I do cheat on my wife...I'm kidding myself. This might be a bad analogy, but for the guys that don't get this chance for a "pass" it's horrible.

Caseyfan21
02-13-2007, 01:04 AM
Speaking not from an athletic standpoint, but I can personally attest to the increased requirement for admission into OSU. I had a close friend who coming out of high school had a B+ GPA with a 21 on his ACT. He was denied entrance into OSU. The actual admissions office at OSU has increased requirements to get in dramatically. OSU is not the same school from a generation ago when anyone graduating from an Ohio high school gained admission.

If anyone believes stuff like this only occurs in D-1 athletics, that is not true. When I was in high school, a baseball coach from an unnamed university visited my high school to talk to me. This university is very highly regarded academically with an average ACT score of about a 31-32. It is not D-1, maybe D-2 or D-3, I forget. Anyways, the coach gave me some literature that advertised the strong academics of the university. His exact words to me were "If you can pull a 21 on the ACT then I'll personally make sure you're in. Don't worry about any of these stats."

It happens on all levels of college athletics, D-1 all the way on down.

LoganBuck
02-13-2007, 07:46 AM
If this is the case OSU is shooting themselves in the foot. They don't have requirements, because they make exceptions. A requirement is a requirement. "I don't cheat on my wife...except every odd year during a month that starts with the letter J." If this is the case....I do cheat on my wife...I'm kidding myself. This might be a bad analogy, but for the guys that don't get this chance for a "pass" it's horrible.

One caveat, all these kids with passes have already made the grade with the NCAA. They are free and clear with the NCAA, the pass refers to a kid who has the grades or is trending very close to the cutoff who after another grading period in high school will make it. The pass does not allow admission, it allows them to sign, they must still improve their grades and meet the standard. Very highly rated wide reciever Ray Small did this last year, and he even needed to take summer classes to get in. Three years ago Freddie Lenix a LB, who eventually ended up at UC, got the pass and failed to gain entrance, he enrolled at a Community College. He didn't improve enough to get into Ohio State, yet he could get into Cincinnati.

Hoosier Red
02-13-2007, 08:25 AM
Yeah you're right George that's basically the same.

To be fair the letter was in response to a column saying the Big Ten schools should lower admissions for their athletes in order to compete.

The whole context of the letter is, that the Big Ten will not lower admissions standards. And they are competing very well thank you very little.

George, there is no argument here. UM and TOSU, along with most Big Ten schools have much higher admissions requirements than their SEC counterparts. (Vanderbilt excluded of course.)

Sea Ray
02-13-2007, 12:16 PM
Amazing to me that in a little over one month's time the debate has gone from "is the Big Ten the best football conference?" to "why the Big Ten is not the best?" I would say the latter is the most realistic debate.

As a fan I don't care whose football team has the best SAT scores. I want to win the game with NCAA academically eligible players. Aside from that I don't care which team would look better on a Jeopardy show.

I don't know which conference educates its players better, but I do know there's no doubt which conference plays better football.

Hoosier Red
02-13-2007, 02:18 PM
I don't disagree with you Sea Ray. I only see the team, so I don't necessarily care that IU has a high or low graduation rate, or is admitting Rhodes Scholars.
But I sure want my IU's president and Athletic Department to care.

Reds Freak
02-13-2007, 03:10 PM
You really think the IU athletic department cares about the education of the basketball players? They may say they do, but I don't buy it. What brings in more money? Winning Big Ten and NCAA Championships or players with high GPA's? It's all about money. The only reason they care about academic performance is that it might hurt their reputation which could cause them to lose valuable recruits.

Hoosier Red
02-13-2007, 03:19 PM
I think it matters that they get kids in that will stay eligible.
Admittedly easier to do at IU than at Northwestern. Probably harder than a lot of SEC schools.

LincolnparkRed
02-13-2007, 03:50 PM
I think it matters that they get kids in that will stay eligible.
Admittedly easier to do at IU than at Northwestern. Probably harder than a lot of SEC schools.

Staying eligible is a whole nother can of Worms, just ask Clem Haskins and Minnesota on how that is working out for them

dabvu2498
02-14-2007, 09:01 AM
Using the NCAA's Academic Progress Rates to compare the two conferences, in football only, one finds this:

Big Ten
Northwestern -- 961
Penn St. -- 957
Michigan -- 952
Iowa -- 950
Indiana -- 931
OSU -- 925
Illinois -- 918
Minnesota -- 918
Wisconsin -- 914
Purdue -- 910
MSU -- 901
Average: 931.2

SEC:
Auburn -- 981
Florida -- 966
Ole Miss -- 958
Vanderbilt -- 957
UGa -- 950
Arkansas -- 940
Kentucky -- 940
LSU -- 935
Tennessee -- 926
MSU -- 920
Bama -- 916
USC -- 911
Average: 941.7

DTCromer
02-15-2007, 10:05 AM
Using the NCAA's Academic Progress Rates to compare the two conferences, in football only, one finds this:

Big Ten
Northwestern -- 961
Penn St. -- 957
Michigan -- 952
Iowa -- 950
Indiana -- 931
OSU -- 925
Illinois -- 918
Minnesota -- 918
Wisconsin -- 914
Purdue -- 910
MSU -- 901
Average: 931.2

SEC:
Auburn -- 981
Florida -- 966
Ole Miss -- 958
Vanderbilt -- 957
UGa -- 950
Arkansas -- 940
Kentucky -- 940
LSU -- 935
Tennessee -- 926
MSU -- 920
Bama -- 916
USC -- 911
Average: 941.7



Auburn being the highest?:roll:

That completely invalidates the list. And UT being better than half of the Big 10 teams? Please. What kind of formula does the NCAA use?

Sea Ray
02-15-2007, 11:06 AM
I imagine that list shows improvement not overall performance, thus the lower schools will look better because they have more room for improvement

dabvu2498
02-15-2007, 11:35 AM
I imagine that list shows improvement not overall performance, thus the lower schools will look better because they have more room for improvement

Not really.



Here’s how it works: incentives and disincentives are tied to meaningful measures of academic performance that involve the academic progress rate (APR), the NCAA graduation success rate (GSR), and/or federal graduation rate data.

The APR is an academic measurement that includes primarily currently enrolled student-athletes. The federal methodology and the GSR do not reflect current, actual conditions.

The APR was developed to provide a more accurate, real time “snapshot” of a team’s academic success and to serve as a primary measurement on which incentives and disincentives will be based.

The APR is not intended to replace the federal measure or GSR; rather, it is a fairer measure that will help provide accurate, real-time data on academic progress on which the NCAA will base its reform principles.

The APR provides a much clearer picture of the current academic “culture” in each sport, and includes eligibility, retention, and graduation as factors in the rate calculation.

http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/academics_and_athletes/education_and_research/academic_reform/backgrounder_academic_reform.html

DTCromer
02-15-2007, 11:43 AM
I would like someone to look me straight in the face and tell me Auburn's football program has smarter football players than Northwestern's. Please. . .someone. . . without laughing. I know there have been multiple times that a recruit couldn't get into a Florida school only to go up to Auburn and become eligible.

gonelong
02-15-2007, 12:39 PM
I would like someone to look me straight in the face and tell me Auburn's football program has smarter football players than Northwestern's. Please. . .someone. . . without laughing. I know there have been multiple times that a recruit couldn't get into a Florida school only to go up to Auburn and become eligible.

The calculation doesn't measure how smart your kids are or actually how many of them graduate. It is intended to measure the "progress" of the kids in your system as they move towards graduation.

925 is considered acceptable, anything lower and you potentially will start losing scholarships.

GL

Hoosier Red
02-15-2007, 02:39 PM
The calculation doesn't measure how smart your kids are or actually how many of them graduate. It is intended to measure the "progress" of the kids in your system as they move towards graduation.

925 is considered acceptable, anything lower and you potentially will start losing scholarships.

GL

I'm actually surprised that NW, Penn State, and Vanderbilt are as high as they are. I would think the wash out rate for general student body is pretty high at those universities.
It does have quite an impact on whom you can allow in to the university, even if its just to play ball.

reds1869
02-15-2007, 03:25 PM
I'm actually surprised that NW, Penn State, and Vanderbilt are as high as they are. I would think the wash out rate for general student body is pretty high at those universities.
It does have quite an impact on whom you can allow in to the university, even if its just to play ball.

Not really. Better schools also tend to have higher retention rates, i.e. less drop outs. More selective=better success rate.

George Foster
02-15-2007, 11:20 PM
Not really. Better schools also tend to have higher retention rates, i.e. less drop outs. More selective=better success rate.

There is something else you need to consider....money! If you are paying
25-30K a year to attend Vandy, they don't want to flunk you out. I'm sure they will, if you are a total screw up, but they will give you every chance they can. Also, with smaller class sizes at private schools, the professors get to know the students on a first name basis. It's harder to give a kid a bad grade if you know them personally and you know they are trying. It's just human nature. At a state school, you are just a number the first 2 years. Private schools take no tax dollars. All their revenue is from tuition and gifts.

It is true that with higher standards, you get kids with better potential.