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View Full Version : Cubs Demise Already Begun



Jim
02-13-2007, 10:08 AM
The Cubs are already in trouble. Carlos Zambrano is putting pressure on the Cubbies for a LTC worth some major coin, testing the limits of Hendy's medical condition. See http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2763803&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines. I can already see this becoming a distraction and causing some clubhouse turmoil. Gotta love how he refers to himself in the third person. :cool:

Chip R
02-13-2007, 10:12 AM
I saw the subject title and thought they just reported to spring training. ;)

justincredible
02-13-2007, 10:17 AM
Funny, I thought their demise began in 1876.

Jim
02-13-2007, 10:18 AM
Funny, I thought their demise began in 1876.

Maybe I should have titled this post "Cubs Demise Continues" ;)

Johnny Footstool
02-13-2007, 10:26 AM
I can't believe Zambrano has already thrown so many pitches at the age of 25. That seems like a bad thing.

M2
02-13-2007, 11:20 AM
I can't believe Zambrano has already thrown so many pitches at the age of 25. That seems like a bad thing.

Could be a good thing. Best-of-their-generation types can do that. Obviously we've got no way of knowing whether that will be Zambrano. He's got the stuff and possibly the arm to do it, but I figure that doughy body of his will betray him.

But, as a general rule, I like pitchers who can carry a heavy workload. It's the guys who can't who worry me more.

justincredible, to be fair the Cubs slide didn't really start until 1909 and the franchise didn't collapse until 1940 (25 of 31 seasons from 1909-1939 were winning affairs and the club won six pennants, 48 of 67 seasons from 1940-2006 have been losing affairs with only one pennant -- in the war-depleted league of 1945 -- to show for their paltry efforts). Just last year they eclipsed the Phillies' 97-season championship-free streak.

After them the longest streaks belong to:

Cleveland Indians - 58 seasons
San Francisco/New York Giants - 52 seasons
Texas Rangers/Washington Senators - 46 seasons
Houston Astros/Colt 45s - 45 seasons

For a field pick, you've got three of the four members of the class of 1969 -- San Diego, Milwaukee/Seattle, Washington/Montreal -- none of whom has won a championship in 38 seasons. If not for Don Denkinger's infamous call in the 1985 World Series, the Royals would be there with them.

Other notable championship-free streaks in baseball history:

Chicago White Sox - 87 seasons (1918-2004)
Boston Red Sox - 85 seasons (1919-2003)
Baltimore Orioles/St. Louis Browns/Milwaukee Brewers - 65 seasons (1901-1965)
Minnesota Twins/Washington Senators - 63 seasons (1925-1986)
Brooklyn Dodgers/Robins - 52 seasons (1902-1953)

The Phillies' 97-season streak went from 1883-1979. Actually, it's surprising more wasn't made of the Cubs setting the new standard.

westofyou
02-13-2007, 11:35 AM
but I figure that doughy body of his will betray him.

Unless his manager betrays his arm first

http://www.thoroughbredmemories.com/photos/MickeyLolich262CC.jpg

EKURed
02-13-2007, 12:41 PM
Gotta love anybody who refers to themselves in third person...haha....wow...he's a crazy man!

Degenerate39
02-13-2007, 01:53 PM
I was thinking Alfonso got hurt and would be out all season when I saw this thread.

bucksfan2
02-13-2007, 02:43 PM
Zambrono is a good pitcher, not a great pitcher. He also has the mental game of about a 5 year old.

westofyou
02-13-2007, 03:08 PM
Zambrono is a good pitcher, not a great pitcher. He also has the mental game of about a 5 year old.

Last 4 season he's easily in the top 8 in MLB, and he' s 4th in that span in batters faced... so that could bite him in the butt down the line.

CAREER
2003-2006

STRIKEOUTS/9 IP displayed only--not a sorting criteria
WALKS/9 IP displayed only--not a sorting criteria
BATTERS FACED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
ERA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria

RSAA RSAA SO/9 IP BB/9 IP BFP ERA IP
1 Johan Santana 164 9.69 2.04 3358 1.71 851.2
2 Brandon Webb 126 7.24 3.12 3576 1.05 852.2
3 Roy Halladay 125 6.38 1.46 3061 1.29 760.2
4 Roger Clemens 124 8.33 2.73 3045 1.55 750.2
5 Carlos Zambrano 123 8.03 3.93 3620 1.19 861
6 Roy Oswalt 114 7.23 1.93 3395 1.22 826.2
7 Pedro Martinez 106 9.29 2.32 3045 1.19 753.1
8 John Smoltz 94 7.97 1.91 2458 1.37 607.2
9 Jason Schmidt 91 8.85 3.17 3377 1.00 818
10 Chris Carpenter 85 7.66 1.84 2595 1.25 645.1

Chip R
02-13-2007, 03:18 PM
Zambrono is a good pitcher, not a great pitcher. He also has the mental game of about a 5 year old.


He does seem to get easily rattled. Was it last year or the year before when he tried to pick our pitcher off 3rd? I think it was Milton. He ended up throwing it away. :lol:

vaticanplum
02-13-2007, 04:18 PM
He does seem to get easily rattled. Was it last year or the year before when he tried to pick our pitcher off 3rd? I think it was Milton. He ended up throwing it away. :lol:

He also breaks a bat about every third game.

redsgabp
02-13-2007, 04:58 PM
The Cubs are already in trouble. Carlos Zambrano is putting pressure on the Cubbies for a LTC worth some major coin, testing the limits of Hendy's medical condition. See http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2763803&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines. I can already see this becoming a distraction and causing some clubhouse turmoil. Gotta love how he refers to himself in the third person. :cool:

I think Carlos Zambrano is a A+++ pitcher.

and with that being said, if I was the cubs owner, I would trade him to Kansas City!

A player demanding a big contract before spring training or else???

"I would be like ok, guess what? Pack you bags for KC LOL@ u Z!" I said as the Cubs owner.

He may deserve a big contract but, demanding it and putting it in the press is going too far.

Chip R
02-13-2007, 05:04 PM
He also breaks a bat about every third game.


His own?

vaticanplum
02-13-2007, 05:07 PM
His own?

Yep yep. He gets as frustrated as a hitter as he does pitching.

Every third game may be an exaggeration. but I remember at least two last season (thanks WGN) in close succession.

westofyou
02-13-2007, 05:12 PM
Yep yep. He gets as frustrated as a hitter as he does pitching.

That guy can hit, I had him in Strat and he constantly got on base (for a pitcher)

In real life he can hit too

CAREER
2003-2006
P
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria

OPS OPS AB
1 Brooks Kieschnick .837 133
2 Jason Marquis .653 239
3 Carlos Zambrano .629 298
4 Mike Hampton .603 149
5 Dontrelle Willis .591 288
6 Randy Wolf .585 162
7 Adam Eaton .561 166
8 Livan Hernandez .554 305
9 Noah Lowry .538 140
10 Darren Oliver .527 104

Chip R
02-13-2007, 05:38 PM
Yep yep. He gets as frustrated as a hitter as he does pitching.

Every third game may be an exaggeration. but I remember at least two last season (thanks WGN) in close succession.


His temperment kind of reminds me of John Rocker. When he was on, he was good but he could really get rattled.

Always Red
02-13-2007, 05:41 PM
Great pic of Lolich (I think), woy.

The World Series of 1968 was the first I remember seeing as a kid. I was a big fan of McClain and Lolich, who both had big years for the Tigers (well, McClain had a monster year). Both were pretty hefty guys, as I recall, especially Lolich.

McClain threw 336 innings in 1968 (for an astonishing 31 victories), and 325 in 1969 (24 wins), and was never the same again. In fact, he lost 22 games in 1971 for the hapless Senators.

Lolich had a longer career, but for four years in a row threw over 300 innings, the low point being 376 innings in 1971. He did post 25 wins that year. But his arm was shot by the time he was 35.

The big Z is even heftier than these guys (he's taller, too), and for all the flack Baker has taken for how many innings are on his arm (or more correctly- how many pitches), has thrown far less innings than McClain did at the same age, and about as many as Lolich, although Mickey wasn't yet into his 4 year 300+ inning streak.

It's interesting, and actually far more perplexing, how some pitchers can handle a workload and others cannot. As far as I know, there is absolutely no way to be able to discern which pitcher will be more durable than another would.

Does anyone know of any work being done in this area? To identify which pitchers are sure-bets for arm trouble (other than a Rob Dibble-like delivery)?

I was just reading an article in the Enquirer this morning how the Reds let Chris Gruler go earlier this week. They could not decide between he and Scott Kazmir, and Bowden finally chose Gruler because he was a burlier guy, and thought he would be more durable.

westofyou
02-13-2007, 05:45 PM
The World Series of 1968 was the first I remember seeing as a kid.

Mine too, and I was in Detroit, it's nice to start on top.

HumnHilghtFreel
02-13-2007, 05:45 PM
Zambrano is actually one of my favorite players, even though he is a Cub. The reason I like to watch him is because of his fiery attitude, which as others have mentioned, can be a fault of his at times.

Watching him smack home runs and sprint around the bases is pretty fun too:)

Natty Redlocks
02-13-2007, 10:20 PM
I love Zambrano, as do all Cub fans. No way they let him walk.