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Redlegs
02-14-2007, 10:52 AM
I think there comes a time when fans of Pete Rose should tell his detractors to "shove it." It's to a point where it almost doesn't matter if he gets into the hall of fame. Pete Rose brought it every single night. He was an opponent's worst nightmare because he wanted it more than they did. He's made his mistakes and paid his debt. If the nay sayers don't appreciate his accomplishments, that's their problem. I grew up in Cincinnati. I saw what he could do first hand. I was in the stands the night of 4,192 (green seats, outfield). I felt the electricity he generated and I think baseball should be grateful instead of pimping Pete out when they need him. The sportswriters can take their hall of fame ballots and put them where the sun don't shine as far as I'm concerned. The fans have spoken on more than one occasion when it comes to all century teams and so forth.

I have a child on the way and if it turns out to be a boy, you can count on me showing him video clips of Pete Rose playing the game.

I know this is old news, but I had to vent. I watch that video clip on Reds.com over and over. Can't wait to see his exhibit. Peace.

Chip R
02-14-2007, 10:55 AM
I want to thank you for bringing up this topic because, Lord knows, we've really never had the opportunity to discuss this subject at all.

westofyou
02-14-2007, 10:59 AM
I grew up in Cincinnati. I saw what he could do first hand.

Still lived there in 1989 eh?

He sure blew that season all to hell.

BTW, lots of us grew up in Cincinnati, some of us even left and occasionally visit. And every time someone brings up the 500 pound elephant in the room.

Pete Rose, sure could play. Are you going to show your kid the video clips since 1989 too?

Reds1
02-14-2007, 11:01 AM
My dad saw him signing balls in Vegas a couple days ago. Had some nice tan cowboy boots on. :)

Redlegs
02-14-2007, 11:02 AM
Still lived there in 1989 eh?

He sure blew that season all to hell.

BTW, lots of us grew up in Cincinnati, some of us even left and occasionally visit. And every time someone brings up the 500 pound elephant in the room.

Pete Rose, sure could play. Are you going to show your kid the video clips since 1989 too?

With all due respect, you fall under the group I would say "shove it."

westofyou
02-14-2007, 11:07 AM
With all due respect, you fall under the group I would say "shove it."

Yep, that's probably what Pete thought when Hutchinson asked him to quit hanging around the tracks so much back in 1964.

Or what he thought in 1970 when MLB sent investigator Harry Fitzgibbons out to talk to Pete and see what was up with all those gambling rumors, well we know for sure that's what he thought when MLB offered him an out before they would have to give him one back when he managed the Reds

Redsland
02-14-2007, 11:19 AM
I was watching a "Magnum P.I." rerun the other day.

Mac, Magnum's navy pal, stopped by the estate to tell Magnum that he (Mac) had resigned his commission. Magnum was shocked. He said, "Give up the navy? That's like Pete Rose giving up baseball."

The episode originally ran in '83, and it sure sounded weird hearing it now.

westofyou
02-14-2007, 11:23 AM
I was watching a "Magnum P.I." rerun the other day.

Mac, Magnum's navy pal, stopped by the estate to tell Magnum that he (Mac) had resigned his commission. Magnum was shocked. He said, "Give up the navy? That's like Pete Rose giving up baseball."

The episode originally ran in '83, and it sure sounded weird hearing it now.

Did Mac tell Magnum to "Shove It?"

Because that would have been perfect.

George Anderson
02-14-2007, 11:24 AM
I was watching a "Magnum P.I." rerun the other day.

Mac, Magnum's navy pal, stopped by the estate to tell Magnum that he (Mac) had resigned his commission. Magnum was shocked. He said, "Give up the navy? That's like Pete Rose giving up baseball."

The episode originally ran in '83, and it sure sounded weird hearing it now.

Dont let Pete know this or he will go after royalty fees.

Redsland
02-14-2007, 11:33 AM
Did Mac tell Magnum to "Shove It?"

Because that would have been perfect.
Actually, it was all a trick set by Buck that exposed Magnum as a target for Ivan, who was really being stalked by Nevo, who wasn't Nevo at all, but rather a KGB spy who didn't care about Ivan in the least, because he was a diversion. Nevo was actually going after the Japanese delegation, but he wasn't doing it himself. No, no. He had programmed TC to do it back in 'Nam ten years ago, and was activating him now with psychotropic gum.

No, I'm not kidding.

registerthis
02-14-2007, 11:42 AM
With all due respect, you fall under the group I would say "shove it."

Hey, at least you're respectful when you tell people to shove it.

Redlegs
02-14-2007, 11:52 AM
Hey, at least you're respectful when you tell people to shove it.
LOL, I try. I could have just said :mooner: !


:)

George Anderson
02-14-2007, 11:58 AM
LOL, I try. I could have just said :mooner: !


:)

:laugh: :thumbup:

Caseyfan21
02-14-2007, 12:14 PM
My dad saw him signing balls in Vegas a couple days ago. Had some nice tan cowboy boots on. :)

http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/57/557/2/7/7/2624207070096535942yyFgGq_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2624207070096535942yyFgGq)

That's from this past summer when I was in Vegas. We didn't even know where he was, just sort of stumbled into him. Apparently Bench was there earlier doing the same thing.

Joseph
02-14-2007, 12:42 PM
That hat he's wearing is U-G-L-Y

MartyFan
02-14-2007, 12:48 PM
With all due respect...snore...tired...done...next!

Chip R
02-14-2007, 12:57 PM
Actually, it was all a trick set by Buck that exposed Magnum as a target for Ivan, who was really being stalked by Nevo, who wasn't Nevo at all, but rather a KGB spy who didn't care about Ivan in the least, because he was a diversion. Nevo was actually going after the Japanese delegation, but he wasn't doing it himself. No, no. He had programmed TC to do it back in 'Nam ten years ago, and was activating him now with psychotropic gum.

No, I'm not kidding.


Wasn't Bob Boone in that episode?

Phhhl
02-14-2007, 01:09 PM
Excellent post. Even Keith Olberman has backed down on some of his criticisms of Pete and endorses him for the Hall now. He said as much on the Dan Patrick show one day when the issue of steroids was being discussed. And, Olberman is one pretentious nut to crack.

As often as it is brought up, I think Pete's case is topical so long as he is out of the Hall. I applaud those who voice their latter-day support of the greatest Red of them all. It's not a popular position here, but it's one that I share. You don't have to endorse his actions or forget his crimes. But, why not forgive? I truly believe Pete knows by now, without a shadow of a doubt, that he has tarnished an image that would have distinguished him for all time as one of the greatest figures in sports history. I believe he is sorry now, even if he has been defiant and disengenuous in the past.

He's getting older, and Pete might not be around another 20 years. Nobody who has confessed his guilt and apologized deserves the amount of consternation and ridicule he has recieved, especially not a man whose contribution to his game is as colossal as his. And, even more especially, from those who should love him most... Reds fans.

Z-Fly
02-14-2007, 01:19 PM
I am not old enough to remember ever seeing Pete Play. From what I have seen I don't agree with what he has done. But in my opinion, It is a crime to not let him back in baseball and let Barry chase Hammering Hank. It drives me nuts just thinking about it.

flyer85
02-14-2007, 01:33 PM
whatever "bad things" have ever happened to Pete have all been self inflicted.

Is it fair? Not really the point, no one forced Pete to make all those decisions. The sad part for him is he had simply come clean to Ueberroth on betting at the track the "investigation" would never had happened. He might have spent at most a year out of baseball. It was his own over-inflated sense of self importance that led him down the path where he finds himself now.


You’ve made your bed, now lie in it

BTW, I believe he should be in the HOF but I don't get to decide.

Redlegs
02-14-2007, 05:11 PM
whatever "bad things" have ever happened to Pete have all been self inflicted.
Very much agree. I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue this point with you. The same cocky attitude that made Pete such a great baseball player also led to his demise.

Dom Heffner
02-14-2007, 06:31 PM
Even Keith Olberman has backed down on some of his criticisms of Pete and endorses him for the Hall now. He said as much on the Dan Patrick show one day when the issue of steroids was being discussed.

That's just great. Use the steroid issue to open the hall up to gamblers. So now we'll have both 'roid heads and gamblers both in there.

For me, it's ban them both.

I guess I can shove it, too. With all due respect, of course.

StillFunkyB
02-14-2007, 07:07 PM
He broke the rules. There isn't a single soul that would say anything about Pete's accomplishments on the field. We all know he is a hall of famer, but he broke the rules. It sucks, but that's what happened.

What makes it even worse is that we probably wouldn't be having these discussions had he taken the high road from day one. He probably would already be enshrined had he just fessed up, and stayed out of the casinos.

And really, does it matter if he has some exhibit in a buiding in NY? Nobody can take away those memories of what he did on the field.

I just wish you could buy a Pete Rose throwback, now that would be nice.

SunDeck
02-14-2007, 07:22 PM
Great Ballplayer? Well, no he wasn't. He wasn't fast, didn't have much power, had a weak arm and played infield with the grace of a drunk stumbling out of a bar on a late night. In fact, he only got a try out with the Reds through a family connection.

But could he play baseball? Yes, the man could play the game like no one else because he thrived on it. He is a completely singular person, built to do only one thing well. Everything else he does is a mess and unfortunately he wasn't smart enough to get out of the game before his gambling addiction took him into the only forbidden territory for baseball.

Should he be in the Hall? That's a different question than, "Was he one of the greatest baseball players in history?" The answer to the first question is not up to anyone who is not Bud Selig (or probably his successors). The answer to the second question is undoubtably, yes.
The problem, though, is Pete himself. He continues to make himself unlikeable, an unsympathetic huckster who still appears to be only one step ahead of the IRS. If he'd just shut his mouth and do something other than promote himself, he would probably be redeemed in the eyes of the mlb and the voting writers. Pete was never likeable to them...or really to anyone except those with whom he played. He's crass, he's a jerk, he's a blow hard and finally, he's just a stupid, stupid man outside the baseball diamond. He's created this mess all on his own and I see no evidence that he really is contrite or willing to admit that he has a debilitating addiction. The man has lost more money at the track than most of us will earn in a lifetime, for god's sake and until he wakes up and gets a handle on the political side of getting into the Hall (and the fact that he NEEDS help) he's never going to get in before his death.

zombie-a-go-go
02-14-2007, 08:41 PM
IIRC, Teh Selig was on the cusp of letting him back in for hall admission right before he had that great brain-buster of an idea to admit he gambled on baseball by way of a $30 book - and had the book released right before that year's HoF admissions ceremony.

One thing I will say for the cat - he sure didn't have no truck with people telling him how to cut his hair, that's for damn sure.

KronoRed
02-14-2007, 08:45 PM
Actually, it was all a trick set by Buck that exposed Magnum as a target for Ivan, who was really being stalked by Nevo, who wasn't Nevo at all, but rather a KGB spy who didn't care about Ivan in the least, because he was a diversion. Nevo was actually going after the Japanese delegation, but he wasn't doing it himself. No, no. He had programmed TC to do it back in 'Nam ten years ago, and was activating him now with psychotropic gum.

No, I'm not kidding.

I caught the first part of that episode the other day, didn't see that many plot twists coming :help:

macro
02-15-2007, 02:12 AM
The Hall of Fame is just a museum, nothing more. Put the guy in there with all the others, and make a note at the bottom of his plaque saying that he had more hits than anyone else ever, and that he bet on baseball. And while we're at it, list the transgressions of the other scoundrels that have plaques in there. Again, it's just a museum.

Roy Tucker
02-15-2007, 09:24 AM
... and was activating him now with psychotropic gum.



I think someone slipped me some of that back in college. I got all wacky.

bomarl1969
02-15-2007, 09:33 AM
Pete Rose, sure could play. Are you going to show your kid the video clips since 1989 too?

Pete is obviously this man's hero. I have a little daughter who I'd will play softball when she is a bit older. You can sure as hell bet I'll show her all of Pete's video clips. And yes I'll show her the 89 clips just to show how baseball has screwed Pete.

gonelong
02-15-2007, 09:57 AM
Pete screwed Pete, but then again, who hasn't Pete screwed at some point?

GL

westofyou
02-15-2007, 10:00 AM
Dude, with all due respect, you don't have to be a pr--- about this. Pete is obviously this man's hero. I have a little daughter who I'd will play softball when she is a bit older. You can sure as hell bet I'll show her all of Pete's video clips. And yes I'll show her the 89 clips just to show how baseball has screwed Pete.

I'm a prick now eh?

Yawn...... poor Pete Rose, damn good player, complete mess off the field.

jojo
02-15-2007, 10:37 AM
whatever "bad things" have ever happened to Pete have all been self inflicted.

Is it fair? Not really the point, no one forced Pete to make all those decisions. The sad part for him is he had simply come clean to Ueberroth on betting at the track the "investigation" would never had happened. He might have spent at most a year out of baseball. It was his own over-inflated sense of self importance that led him down the path where he finds himself now.



BTW, I believe he should be in the HOF but I don't get to decide.

yes, what he said.

dfs
02-15-2007, 11:27 AM
Fwiw...As a kid, I wanted to be Pete when I grew up. He did not have a bigger fan.

It's a great story along the lines of opera or Greek drama. What made Pete great, the refusal to accept his own limitations also caused his downfall. In that sense I don't want him in the hall, yet. Pete accepted a lifetime ban. It is my belief that exactly as soon as the ban is over, Pete should be accepted into the Hall of Fame.

The notion that the hall should make an exception for Pete and allow him in while he's alive, seems perverse. At one time Pete may have thought he was just "sittin out a year," after all precedent had been established with Steinbrenner's one year "lifetime ban," but the blatant commercialism of his confession has pretty much turned me away from the notion that Pete should recieve tempered mercy. He has recieved exactly what he deserves.

Hap
02-15-2007, 11:47 AM
Pete Rose now makes a living by inking his signature onto pieces of paper. I once read (I forget where) that he has his autograph timed to fourteen seconds.

One time back in 1989 in Peter Ueberroth's office he could have taken fourteen seconds to ink his name onto a piece of paper.

Chip R
02-15-2007, 12:32 PM
Pete Rose now makes a living by inking his signature onto pieces of paper. I once read (I forget where) that he has his autograph timed to fourteen seconds.



Takes him 14 seconds to write, "Pete Rose"? Does he have arthritis like Fred Sanford?

Hoosier Red
02-15-2007, 12:38 PM
Hey it's not an easy thing to spell. Silent e's on both the first and last name.

George Anderson
02-15-2007, 12:45 PM
If it takes Pete 14 seconds to write Pete Rose, how long would it of taken him if his name was Carl Yastrzemski or Cesar Geronimo?

RichRed
02-15-2007, 01:45 PM
Takes him 14 seconds to write, "Pete Rose"? Does he have arthritis like Fred Sanford?

"The name is Pete G. Rose and the G stands for Gambl...er, never mind. Here's your autograph, you big dummy."

Dunner44
02-15-2007, 05:13 PM
Pete played with passion, but he was stupid. He deserves the hall as a player and as a man passionate for the game, but as a decision maker he deserves what he got. I'd put him in there, but its not my call.

Redlegs
02-15-2007, 08:15 PM
Pete is obviously this man's hero.
For the record, Pete was/is not my hero. My hero was/is my late father. It just chaps my butt for baseball to use Pete when they so desire then act like he's a piece of dirt all the other times.

I'm also of the opinion the people who want him banned for life and thrown under a rock to live probably have done a few things they're ashamed of as well.

To beat it all, I can't believe I got 3 red marks on this thread. From people who didn't even contribute to the thread. I'll give WestOfYou credit for stating his opinion. He's entitled, although I don't appreciate the spin he put on the fact I'd show my kid clips of Rose. I clearly stated I'd show him clips of Rose playing the game of baseball. I love Johnny Bench as well. I'd be willing to show him clips of the best catcher in baseball history. I probably will not, however, show him clips of Johnny singing on Hee Haw. That's just as bad as Rose denying his gambling. :laugh:

harangatang
02-15-2007, 09:38 PM
I want to thank you for bringing up this topic because, Lord knows, we've really never had the opportunity to discuss this subject at all.I know it's been kicked around before but posts like these could be easily solved by a FAQ/tired topics for newer people on the board.

Phhhl
02-16-2007, 05:16 PM
I know it's been kicked around before but posts like these could be easily solved by a FAQ/tired topics for newer people on the board.

I understand the purpose. But, I wouldn't like something like that. We have no idea what someone is going to say on a topic, especially when new people post. Something substantial or worthy of discussion may spawn from a "tired" topic, so it's not worth diminishing the freedom of speech on this board just because certain subjects annoy some people.

It would be a kind of humorous footnote if Pete Rose was banned for life from Redszone as well.

Always Red
02-16-2007, 05:40 PM
I think we should just keep an eternally running "Pete Rose" thread stickied to the top of the board...