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View Full Version : Reds sign Kerry Ligtenberg



TC81190
02-14-2007, 04:19 PM
per CBS Sportsline

http://sportsline.com/mlb/teams/transactions/CIN

Johnny Footstool
02-14-2007, 04:29 PM
Youth movement?

KronoRed
02-14-2007, 04:41 PM
This guys been awful the last 2 seasons

Razor Shines
02-14-2007, 04:51 PM
This guys been awful the last 2 seasons

Yeah he has and I didn't realize he was already 35. Has he had injury trouble since he was with the Braves, or did teams just figure him out?

cincyinco
02-14-2007, 04:54 PM
Injury trouble IIRC

Scrap Irony
02-14-2007, 04:56 PM
Depth and minor league signing. Two things to mention after Burton and Ligtenberg sign.

1) Krivsky is planning on dealing relievers during Spring Training, probably for either a starter or bench help.

2) Krivsky's MO may seem to borrow a bit from Bowden. (That is, he's willing to give older, established pitchers a minor league contract, with the hopes of improving the team.) However, Krivsky's main difference with bargain bin style GMing is that he only tries minor league deals as a back-up to other deals.

Kc61
02-14-2007, 05:00 PM
Depth and minor league signing. Two things to mention after Burton and Ligtenberg sign.

1) Krivsky is planning on dealing relievers during Spring Training, probably for either a starter or bench help.

2) Krivsky's MO may seem to borrow a bit from Bowden. (That is, he's willing to give older, established pitchers a minor league contract, with the hopes of improving the team.) However, Krivsky's main difference with bargain bin style GMing is that he only tries minor league deals as a back-up to other deals.

I don't see Number 1. He won't trade Weathers or Stanton, just signed them. He won't trade Bray or Coffey, the young guns. He won't get anything for Majewski until after a long stretch of successful appearances.

Yes, he might trade Cormier or Belisle or EZ. I don't see a lot coming back.

Ligtenberg was at Iowa in AAA last year. He will be in Louisville in AAA this year, until an injury or two requires his (or someone else's) recall.

max venable
02-14-2007, 05:02 PM
Again, I think Mark Portugal might still be available...

Mainspark
02-14-2007, 05:08 PM
Ligtenberg gets minor league deal from Reds
CINCINNATI (AP) — Right-handed reliever Kerry Ligtenberg agreed to a minor league deal Wednesday with the Cincinnati Reds, who will give him a chance to win a spot in their bullpen.
The 35-year-old reliever hasn’t pitched in the majors since 2005, when he appeared in seven games for Arizona. He had 18 saves and a 3.57 ERA in 53 appearances for the Cubs’ Triple-A team in Iowa last year.
Ligtenberg has played eight seasons in the majors. His best was 1998, when he became Atlanta’s closer and went 30-of-34 in save opportunities. He missed all the 1999 season after surgery for a torn ligament in his elbow.
John Rocker took over as the Braves’ closer after Ligtenberg got hurt. Ligtenberg saved 12 games in 2000, but has only five saves in the majors since 2001.

StillFunkyB
02-14-2007, 05:19 PM
I have no problem with MLC's for guys like this. Every team needs them to fill AAA, and for emergency help in case of injury.

The problem is the Reds have plenty of those guys on the 25 man roster with big league contracts. :(

Mainspark
02-14-2007, 05:21 PM
CINCINNATI REDS—Agreed to terms with RHP Jared Burton on a one-year contract and RHP Kerry Ligtenberg on a minor league contract

MartyFan
02-14-2007, 05:25 PM
I don't get what the big deal is...it's a Minor league deal and he has the chance to go tot he Big Club if he performs well enough...I also agree with Special K stocking the BP that we can expect to see him deal from the strength to address other areas...I wouldn't be surprised if he would trade his own mom if her could work out what he believes is a fair deal for something even a little better.

reds44
02-14-2007, 05:31 PM
Just another arm in Spring Training to take a look at.

BoydsOfSummer
02-14-2007, 06:00 PM
Marcos Carvajal got released by the D'Rays. There is a young arm that might be worth a look.

Eric_Davis
02-14-2007, 06:05 PM
Injury trouble IIRC
Specifically, what.....anybody know?

How do you go from good to awful in one year?

Razor Shines
02-14-2007, 06:16 PM
Specifically, what.....anybody know?

How do you go from good to awful in one year?

Well he had Tommy John surgery in the spring of '99. He came back and saved 12 games in 2000 but the article I found was from 2000 and so I don't really know about any injuries after that.
http://www.itdean.umn.edu/news/inventing/2001_Spring/ligtenberg.html

Yachtzee
02-14-2007, 06:28 PM
What I want to know is, does he still have those crazy sideburns?

Candy Cummings
02-14-2007, 06:28 PM
What the heck? Bowden's strategy was to bring in broken down guys and try to get them to be #3 starters. This one is to bring in broken down guys and expect them to throw an inning. Seems like a reasonable risk to me.

I don't think we exactly have a ton of trade in our current bullpen. There are lots of lefties.

OnBaseMachine
02-14-2007, 07:22 PM
Marcos Carvajal got released by the D'Rays. There is a young arm that might be worth a look.

Carvajal has good stuff but he's too young for this bullpen.

KronoRed
02-14-2007, 07:23 PM
How do you go from good to awful in one year?

Happens all the time with relief pitchers.

Spike
02-14-2007, 07:27 PM
Why is this a sticky? What is the criteria for a sticky? If the criteria involves an "important" post, I cannot see how the signing of Kerry Lightenberg should have come across any sticky radar.

Anyone have the answer?

pedro
02-14-2007, 07:31 PM
Why is this a sticky? What is the criteria for a sticky? If the criteria involves an "important" post, I cannot see how the signing of Kerry Lightenberg should have come across any sticky radar.

Anyone have the answer?

They tend to sticky any acquisition or signing at least for the first day. I kind of like it.

paintmered
02-14-2007, 07:33 PM
Why is this a sticky? What is the criteria for a sticky? If the criteria involves an "important" post, I cannot see how the signing of Kerry Lightenberg should have come across any sticky radar.

Anyone have the answer?

We sticky most player transactions. This is relatively minor news and probably won't be sticked for more than a few more hours.

zombie-a-go-go
02-14-2007, 07:36 PM
Has anyone said it yet? Let me CTRL-F real quick...

Okay. If we're signing this guy, what about Jeff Shaw?

Jr's Boy
02-14-2007, 07:44 PM
The lightning bug is now a Red.

TeamSelig
02-14-2007, 08:12 PM
Good signing. Probably won't make the team, but a good AAA filler with a possibility of a comeback.

Doc. Scott
02-14-2007, 09:23 PM
Specifically, what.....anybody know?

How do you go from good to awful in one year?

My thought is because a good number of relievers depend on the effectiveness of a single out pitch (that works for one or two innings at a time). That pitch loses some of its zip or location, and the guy goes from hammer to horsemeat right quick.

Razor Shines
02-14-2007, 09:52 PM
February 21, 2006
Kerry Ligtenberg had an MRI performed on his right elbow and left knee Monday and said he probably won't be allowed to practice for at least two more days, according to the Miami Herlad.

That's all that cnn.com sports has on him as far as injuries from last year go.

Chip R
02-14-2007, 10:05 PM
Why is this a sticky? What is the criteria for a sticky? If the criteria involves an "important" post, I cannot see how the signing of Kerry Lightenberg should have come across any sticky radar.

Anyone have the answer?


It's mainly so people don't start multiple threads about the same topic.

SunDeck
02-15-2007, 08:45 AM
"We had a scout watch him throw over the weekend in Minneapolis," Krivsky said. "He was pitching in the (University of) Minnesota alumni game."

:rolleyes:

westofyou
02-15-2007, 09:14 AM
My thought is because a good number of relievers depend on the effectiveness of a single out pitch (that works for one or two innings at a time). That pitch loses some of its zip or location, and the guy goes from hammer to horsemeat right quick.

Or said guy pulls a muscle in his side and it effects his motion and he can't get his stuff up to par, though he tries and tries.

Chip R
02-15-2007, 09:43 AM
"We had a scout watch him throw over the weekend in Minneapolis," Krivsky said. "He was pitching in the (University of) Minnesota alumni game."

He must have struck out Dave Winfield.

Krusty
02-15-2007, 09:50 AM
You never know. That is why you take a look in spring training.

Sea Ray
02-15-2007, 09:54 AM
I wish he'd sign more young "AAAA" arms who are given up on by their teams. EZ, Shackleford and Belisle may become those this year. This is how Houston found Dan Wheeler, ditto for the White Sox and Jenks. I see much more upside to that than the Cormier, Stanton, Mercker type deals. Maybe take a flier on someone else's Chris Gruler. This is where the scouting and minor league coaching depts really earn their keep. A small market team has to uncover a player now and then in this manner.

registerthis
02-15-2007, 09:56 AM
Happens all the time with relief pitchers.

See: Graves, Danny

BRM
02-15-2007, 09:57 AM
Once again, you can never have enough bad pitching. Oh well, nothing too awfully wrong with AAA bullpen depth. Ditto what Sea Ray said though. I'd rather see a few young arms that have fallen out of favor with their teams over some of these older guys with little to no upside.

max venable
02-15-2007, 10:03 AM
What I want to know is, does he still have those crazy sideburns?

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_117763.jpg Guess not.

Jpup
02-15-2007, 10:25 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_117763.jpg Guess not.

:laugh:

Doc. Scott
02-15-2007, 11:10 AM
One of my favorite things to do as a baseball fan is uprooting the serendipitious origins of marginal players. So peep this:

-Ligtenberg was undrafted out of the University of Minnesota and pitched in indy ball for 1994.

-Seattle signed him to a minor-league deal just before Opening Day 1995, but released him four days later.

-Kerry went back to the Minneapolis indy club and went 11-2 with a 2.73 ERA in 1995.

-Along come the Braves in January 1996.

-Ligtenberg dominated High-A in 1996, then AA and AAA in 1997 before appearing in fifteen late-season games with the big club. He posted a 3.00 ERA with 19 Ks in 15 IP.

-He became the full-time closer in 1998 (after being suddenly drafted into service following Mark Wohlers' implosion) and saved 30 games while posting a 2.71 ERA and 79 Ks in 73 IP.

-Got hurt and missed all of 1999.

-Comes back in 2000 and manages 12 more saves and a 3.61 ERA in 59 appearances that year, plus a 3.02 ERA entirely in a setup role in '01 (as John Rocker became the full-time closer).

-After posting a 2.97 ERA in 2002, he becomes a free agent and signs with the Orioles.

-Put up a 3.34 ERA in '03, his fifth straight ERA+ of 128 or more.

-Signed (I believe) a two-year deal with Toronto, but has a bad 2004 (1-6, 6.38, 73 H in 55 IP).

-Toronto releases him just before Opening Day 2005.

-Two weeks later he signed with Arizona. The Diamondbacks purchased his contract in May '05. His stint lasts one month, seven appearances, and a 13.97 ERA.

-He finishes out the year in AAA Tucson with a 3.24 ERA and a 7-50 BB/K ratio in 50 innings.

-Florida signs Ligtenberg to an NRI deal before the 2006 season, but releases him at the end of spring training.

-So he ends up with the Cubs, organization number seven (okay, really six). He puts up a 3.57 ERA at AAA Iowa, saving eighteen and walking just seven batters in 58 IP (but allowing 64 hits and striking out just 44).

It looks like Ligtenberg's style changed considerably after his major injury. Before the arm problems, he struck out a lot more hitters at all levels. Following the surgery, he became much more of a location pitcher. Judging by his recent record, he's lost some of the zip on his pitches and relies on Dennis Eckersley-level control to get AAA hitters out. The scouting report I saw also says he's basically a one-inning guy at this point due to lack of stamina. This scouting report indicates an arthritic hip and later knee problems (caused by compensation for the hip) ruined his 2004 and 2005 major-league results.

http://www.usfamily.net/web/trombleyd/SD%20Born.htm#Kerry%20Ligtenberg

Interestingly enough, Ligtenberg, like ex-Red Cory Lidle, is not a member of the players' union because he was a replacement player during the 1994-1995 strike.

Yachtzee
02-15-2007, 11:58 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_117763.jpg Guess not.

When he shaved those sideburns, he must have taken a whole box of creepy pills.

shredda2000
02-15-2007, 12:34 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_117763.jpg

The REDS signed me...SWEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!

KronoRed
02-15-2007, 01:02 PM
When he shaved those sideburns, he must have taken a whole box of creepy pills.

I was gonna say "happy pills" :help:

Chip R
02-15-2007, 01:31 PM
One of my favorite things to do as a baseball fan is uprooting the serendipitious origins of marginal players. So peep this:

-Ligtenberg was undrafted out of the University of Minnesota and pitched in indy ball for 1994.

-Kerry went back to the Minneapolis indy club and went 11-2 with a 2.73 ERA in 1995.

The scouting report I saw also says he's basically a one-inning guy at this point due to lack of stamina. This scouting report indicates an arthritic hip and later knee problems (caused by compensation for the hip) ruined his 2004 and 2005 major-league results.



Minnesota connections. Arthritic hip. No wonder Wayne signed him.

Tom Servo
02-15-2007, 03:13 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_117763.jpg Guess not.
That hair reminds me of someone though.


http://z.about.com/d/baseball/1/0/H/1/AustinKearns.jpg

mth123
02-15-2007, 08:59 PM
I wish he'd sign more young "AAAA" arms who are given up on by their teams. EZ, Shackleford and Belisle may become those this year. This is how Houston found Dan Wheeler, ditto for the White Sox and Jenks. I see much more upside to that than the Cormier, Stanton, Mercker type deals. Maybe take a flier on someone else's Chris Gruler. This is where the scouting and minor league coaching depts really earn their their keep. A small market team has to uncover a player now and then in this manner.

Agree.