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View Full Version : GM to buy Chrysler?



Chip R
02-16-2007, 03:06 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17186447/

westofyou
02-16-2007, 03:14 PM
They should make this 55 Falcon

http://www.diseno-art.com/images/chrysler_falcon.jpg

Designed to be the basis for a competitor to the Ford Thunderbird and Chevrolet Corvette, the Chrysler Falcon had a carbureted, cast iron, 276 ci overhead-valve V8 engine, rated at 170 hp, with 255 lbft of torque, mated to a two-speed automatic transmission. With a weight of 3,300 lb, it gave the car impressive performance for the time. Only a single vehicle was produced, which was shown at several autoshows. Eventually it was sold to a private owner.[

SunDeck
02-16-2007, 03:40 PM
The potential deal between the two automakers could go beyond cooperation on joint development of a large sport utility vehicle, the magazine said.

Man, Ford must really be a mess if the talks they had with GM sent them to Chrysler. But if a merger is going to produce even more stupid, supersized SUVs, it won't help.

Adding Chrysler does what, other than adding a solid minivan performer (which GM can't seem to get their minds around)? The only way this works is if GM takes on Chrysler and drops all the duplication it has between the brands.
So, let's blue sky this a little- here is your new automaker, General Chrysler, using the following models:

Chrysler minivans, Siebring, and that hip little sportscar...what's it called?
Dodge small pickups
Jeep Cherokee, Liberty and the old CJ...what is that now, Wrangler?
Buick Lucern and Lacrosse (Lacrosse only until all the people born prior to 1940 who buy a new Century every three years die off)
Pontiac Vibe, Torrent, G6 (provided they turn it into a viable competitor with the Civic)
Chevy trucks, Equinox, Corvette, Impala (only high output for police fleets)
Cadillac- probably all of them.
GMC- kill it off, replace with Dodge/Cummins
Hummer- keep them all.

What am I missing?

beb30
02-16-2007, 04:12 PM
Might not be a bad idea. These two companies need to merge and figure out something quick. If they ever want to outsell the Imports they need to start putting their heads together, especially with the hybrid cars. Companies like Toyota keep making better cars that are more efficient while it seems the American companies keep falling behind.

Highlifeman21
02-16-2007, 04:16 PM
I thought Daimler merged with Chrysler a couple years back.

Does this mean GM is trying to gain the Chrysler brand, or are they trying to gain the Mercedes (Daimler) brand?

Chip R
02-16-2007, 04:18 PM
Would Justice OK this deal?

oneupper
02-16-2007, 04:20 PM
Dr. Z got tired of his own commercials.

SunDeck
02-16-2007, 04:22 PM
I think this deal is probably about buying Chrysler from Daimler. Owning Chrysler has been a loser for the germans.

LoganBuck
02-16-2007, 04:31 PM
If they could couple an Allison transmission with a Cummins diesel engine, that would make a serious power train for a truck.

SunDeck
02-16-2007, 04:44 PM
If they could couple an Allison transmission with a Cummins diesel engine, that would make a serious power train for a truck.

Yep, that's the kind of stuff that has to be in their thinking, if this is more than a rumor. That would be a nice combo.

Unassisted
02-18-2007, 09:07 PM
Would Justice OK this deal?

More than anything else in a deal like this, the government doesn't want an automaker's pension fund to dry up. That would put a lot of retirees below the poverty line and retirees tend to be vocal and voters. Unless the deal doesn't adequately protect the Chrysler pension fund, the current Justice Department will let it go through.

When it goes through, I imagine there will be some token concessions extracted from GM, like AT&T had to make when they scarfed up BellSouth, but they'll be a minor hindrance.

dman
02-19-2007, 09:34 AM
Great, now the terrible and defective brake system that GM put on their vehicles can be combined with Chrysler's terrible transmissions and suspensions. Really looking forward to this one.

I'm already giving serious consideration to trading my Dakota in on that new Toyota Tundra. Only thing stopping me right now is that my Dakota is paid off.

15fan
02-19-2007, 10:45 AM
Why people keep buying crappy Ford/GM/Chrysler cars is beyond me.

Ltlabner
02-19-2007, 12:14 PM
Great, now the terrible and defective brake system that GM put on their vehicles can be combined with Chrysler's terrible transmissions and suspensions. Really looking forward to this one.

Had a 2003 Concorde Limited. Tranny exploded at 77,000miles. I followed the maintenance schedule to a T, and mostly drive highway miles. I'll have to think long and hard before buying another Chrysler product again.

Had a mid-to-late Pontiac Grand Am. Absoulte worst car I ever owned. I've posted about it before, but it totally sucked. Was in the shop all the time and the brakes needed repalced every 30,000miles or so despite all my miles being highway.

But the two together.......yikes........you might end up with a super valcano of suckatude right there.

redsmetz
02-19-2007, 12:20 PM
Here's what they need to be making:

http://www.ggw.org/~cac/SpotLite/Askren47Sedan-1.jpg

SunDeck
02-19-2007, 01:17 PM
They already are.


http://asprise.com/product/jtwain/applet/uploaddir/pt-cruiser-2.jpg

westofyou
02-19-2007, 01:33 PM
Why people keep buying crappy Ford/GM/Chrysler cars is beyond me.

Last Chevy I owned was 69 Camaro, last Ford was 73 Cougar.

German and Japanese since...

SunDeck
02-19-2007, 01:40 PM
Why people keep buying crappy Ford/GM/Chrysler cars is beyond me.

They aren't, really. It's the trucks that are still keeping Ford and GM from crashing on the rocks, entirely.
I give that about five years, by which time Toyota will have taken that market, too.

The thing that is so stupid about GM even thinking about taking on Chrysler is that they are actually on the verge of turning things around (relatively speaking...they have a long uphill climb, nevertheless).
GM should stick with the program- keep improving initial quality, offer 10year/100k full warranties (and actually honor them, which would also be a turn around for GM dealers), and drop the duplication from their auto lines.

The problem with GM is that they can't afford to get too small because they have so many benefits to pay out to retirees. They feel that they need all those cars just to keep the revenue up. Toyota, on the other hand, has far fewer models, but is outselling the (former) big three in everything but the pickups. So, while GM has to support factories to make all those superfluous models, Toyota has lower manufacturing overhead.

KronoRed
02-19-2007, 02:11 PM
They already are.


http://asprise.com/product/jtwain/applet/uploaddir/pt-cruiser-2.jpg

:laugh:

Razor Shines
02-19-2007, 03:10 PM
Why people keep buying crappy Ford/GM/Chrysler cars is beyond me.

I have a 2002 Ford Focus that I drive for work and I have put 162,000 miles on it. I haven't had to have a single major repair yet, I haven't even changed the thermostat. It's paid off and I'm thinking of driving it until it needs one and then buying something new. When I was in highschool I bought an '88 Oldsmobile 88 for $500 from my friend's dad and figured it would last maybe a year. I drove it through college and it was nearing 300,000 miles when it finally quit running.

Having said that it's getting near time for both my wife and I to get new cars (whenever I decide the Focus has done enough, for me) and she is getting a Nissan Xterra and I think I am going to get a Jetta or maybe a Passat. So much for Ford/GM/Chrysler.

15fan
02-19-2007, 03:15 PM
Last Wednesday, I met my father-in-law up at the BMW plant in Spartanburg SC where he was taking delivery of a new car. Among other things, we got to tour the plant where they build Z4s and X5s. They'd just sunk $100 million into retooling the entire production line. The combination of automation & precision was just amazing. What I found most impressive, though, was that they don't have separate production lines for different models. They manufacture the cars in the order that the invoice is stamped "paid". So the line can build a yellow X5 without a sunroof, then a blue Z4 hard top, then a black X5 with a sunroof, then a white Z4 soft top, etc.

(At one point, the tour guide casually mentioned that there are no unions at the plant. Meanwhile, both Ford (Hapeville) and GM (Doraville) are shuttering plants here in Atlanta...)

From a business / economic standpoint, I think it would be fascinating to compare the Big 3 US automakers with the big American Airlines to see which has been more poorly managed in every sense for the past quarter century.

And I'm with woy. We've only owned Japanese cars in our house. If we had more $, we'd look at some German models. I can't imagine even considering anything else.

15fan
02-19-2007, 03:21 PM
Having said that it's getting near time for both my wife and I to get new cars (whenever I decide the Focus has done enough, for me) and she is getting a Nissan Xterra and I think I am going to get a Jetta or maybe a Passat. So much for Ford/GM/Chrysler.

About 5 years ago, my wife looked at the Passat, a Volvo S40, and the entry level Infinity. For a variety of reasons, she went with the S40. Haven't looked at those cars since then - we sold the S40 2 years ago & she got a Honda Pilot. At the time, the warranty on the Passat was only 2 years / 24,000 miles, which was a major turnoff.

Having said that, we have a neighbor with a Jetta and she loves it. We have another neighbor with an Audi A4 (which from what I can tell is an over-priced Passat) and he loves his car, too.

GIK
02-19-2007, 03:25 PM
Why people keep buying crappy Ford/GM/Chrysler cars is beyond me.

I own an Explorer, Ranger and a Mustang. All three are pretty nice, IMO. I've owned Japanese/German cars in the past, but typically stick to the Big 3.

LoganBuck
02-19-2007, 03:37 PM
I drive a Chevy 2500HD, and my wife drives a Rendezvous. We looked at the Honda SUV's and went against them this time, next time around my wife will probably be behind the wheel of a Honda Pilot. Toyota is going to have to come out with a 3/4 or 1 Ton truck before I will even give that option the time of day. Ford's Superduty trucks, have too wide a turn radius for my taste, you might as well be driving a boat, and Dodge has the transmission trouble. Chevy can't figure out their fuel, emission, and brake systems

Yachtzee
02-19-2007, 03:49 PM
I have had terrible luck with my 2002 Toyota Camry. It already has a new engine in it (even though I religiously maintained it with regular maintenance) and I've had to have a slew of other unusual repairs done that do not fall under the guise of "wear and tear." It was my first Toyota and will probably be the last.

My mom owned an Audi 80 once and my sister owns a Passat. Not the best repair histories for those two cars, but man those German cars are fun to drive, especially with a 5-speed manual transmission. Some day I'd like a BMW. May not do better than my Camry on repairs, but it sure will be a lot more fun to drive.

15fan
02-19-2007, 03:53 PM
I own an Explorer, Ranger and a Mustang. All three are pretty nice, IMO. I've owned Japanese/German cars in the past, but typically stick to the Big 3.

Translation: I live in Michigan. If I even thought about buying something other than a Ford / GM / Chrysler vehicle, my house would get vandalized, my important mail would mysteriously disappear, my kids would get beat up every day at school, and I'd generally be treated like a second class citizen. ;)

SunDeck
02-19-2007, 04:11 PM
I have a 2002 Ford Focus that I drive for work and I have put 162,000 miles on it. I haven't had to have a single major repair yet, I haven't even changed the thermostat. It's paid off and I'm thinking of driving it until it needs one and then buying something new. When I was in highschool I bought an '88 Oldsmobile 88 for $500 from my friend's dad and figured it would last maybe a year. I drove it through college and it was nearing 300,000 miles when it finally quit running.

Having said that it's getting near time for both my wife and I to get new cars (whenever I decide the Focus has done enough, for me) and she is getting a Nissan Xterra and I think I am going to get a Jetta or maybe a Passat. So much for Ford/GM/Chrysler.

I had a 2000 Focus- it was junk. And that is the difference between Ford and Toyota/Honda. With a Ford/GM/Chrysler, what do you think about when you hear "1st model year"? More than likely, you would stay away from that car until they have had another year or two to work out the kinks. That's not the case for a Honda or a Toyota.
My Focus had thirteen recalls. I'm finished with Fords (and I've owned about ten).

Yachtzee
02-19-2007, 04:11 PM
Translation: I live in Michigan. If I even thought about buying something other than a Ford / GM / Chrysler vehicle, my house would get vandalized, my important mail would mysteriously disappear, my kids would get beat up every day at school, and I'd generally be treated like a second class citizen. ;)

My good friends come from a "Ford Family," with generations of the men in the family working at the local Ford plant. After issues with a Ford Focus they bought in its first model year, they used their A plan credits to pick up a Volvo and a Mazda. Of course with Ford owning a good percentage of each of those companies, it's not surprising in the least if you lift the hood and find a Ford logo on some of the components.

SunDeck
02-19-2007, 04:15 PM
My good friends come from a "Ford Family," with generations of the men in the family working at the local Ford plant. After issues with a Ford Focus they bought in its first model year, they used their A plan credits to pick up a Volvo and a Mazda. Of course with Ford owning a good percentage of each of those companies, it's not surprising in the least if you lift the hood and find a Ford logo on some of the components.

The only thing in my Focus that was worth a crap was the drive train, which came from Mazda, IIRC.

GIK
02-19-2007, 04:23 PM
Translation: I live in Michigan. If I even thought about buying something other than a Ford / GM / Chrysler vehicle, my house would get vandalized, my important mail would mysteriously disappear, my kids would get beat up every day at school, and I'd generally be treated like a second class citizen. ;)

This is actually very true. When I first moved to Michigan I bought a VW not knowing the stigma. My car was egged within days.

Ltlabner
02-19-2007, 04:40 PM
I've become a fan of Sweedish cars myself. Volvo offers a nice blend of performance and luxury at a more affordable price than those made in the Fatherland.

Jpup
02-19-2007, 05:37 PM
I own a Nissan Titan and my fiance owns a Honda Accord. I make parts for GM and Ford, go figure. :)

Unassisted
02-19-2007, 09:30 PM
I'm already giving serious consideration to trading my Dakota in on that new Toyota Tundra.

Those are made right here in San Antonio. It's going to be interesting to see Toyota's marketshare grow here in the biggest truck market in the country.

dman
02-20-2007, 07:28 AM
Those are made right here in San Antonio. It's going to be interesting to see Toyota's marketshare grow here in the biggest truck market in the country.

10,000 LBS. towing capacity with the 5.7L V8 and even with the smaller 4.7L V8 you still get 8,100 LBS. of towing capacity. Those are very impressive standards by any company, plus the price is on par, and lower in some instances, than what the big 3 offer.

Toyota is onto something big here with the redsign of the Tundra.

westofyou
02-20-2007, 11:46 AM
With a Ford/GM/Chrysler, what do you think about when you hear "1st model year"?

Me?

I think about the empty pint bottle of Jack that my friends uncle found rattling around in his door panel... BTW the car was also made on Friday.

GIK
02-20-2007, 11:52 AM
Really? That's crazy. What year car was that?

1st model year is a give/take, really. 1st model-year cars actually have more content standard, before they start removing things to make the cars more profitable in later years.

westofyou
02-20-2007, 12:07 PM
Really? That's crazy. What year car was that?

1st model year is a give/take, really. 1st model-year cars actually have more content standard, before they start removing things to make the cars more profitable in later years.

First year of the Escorts

Jpup
02-20-2007, 02:57 PM
10,000 LBS. towing capacity with the 5.7L V8 and even with the smaller 4.7L V8 you still get 8,100 LBS. of towing capacity. Those are very impressive standards by any company, plus the price is on par, and lower in some instances, than what the big 3 offer.

Toyota is onto something big here with the redsign of the Tundra.

Sounds like what Nissan had over 3 years ago.

BRM
02-20-2007, 03:06 PM
10,000 LBS. towing capacity with the 5.7L V8 and even with the smaller 4.7L V8 you still get 8,100 LBS. of towing capacity. Those are very impressive standards by any company, plus the price is on par, and lower in some instances, than what the big 3 offer.

Toyota is onto something big here with the redsign of the Tundra.

Ford's 5.4L V8 has 12500 lbs towing capacity. The new 6.4 Powerstroke diesel has over 24000 lbs towing capacity. Even Chevy's 6.0L V8 has 12000 lbs. I'd say Toyota still has a ways to go. That said, I'm confident they will get there soon enough.

KronoRed
02-20-2007, 03:18 PM
No slamming the Escort man, 210K miles and still going here :D

Of course it's made in Mexico, my Father In Laws Toyota..make in Kentucky ;)

BRM
02-20-2007, 03:23 PM
My wife is currently driving a Plymouth Grand Voyager mini-van. It has a little over 150,000 miles and it's never needed a major repair. She had a Plymouth Sundance prior to that and it was a very reliable car. I guess we've been lucky overall with Chrysler products.

dman
02-20-2007, 05:50 PM
Ford's 5.4L V8 has 12500 lbs towing capacity. The new 6.4 Powerstroke diesel has over 24000 lbs towing capacity. Even Chevy's 6.0L V8 has 12000 lbs. I'd say Toyota still has a ways to go. That said, I'm confident they will get there soon enough.

Yeah but.... Though the Tundra is considered a "full size" truck, when put in comparison to the big 3's full size, to me, the Tundra appears to fall into a larger mid-size category. Somewhere between the Dakota and a full size. That is why I failed to mention the Nissan Titan. There is no doubt that the Titan is every bit as big of a truck as the Big 3's.

Red Heeler
02-20-2007, 06:08 PM
Yeah but.... Though the Tundra is considered a "full size" truck, when put in comparison to the big 3's full size, to me, the Tundra appears to fall into a larger mid-size category. Somewhere between the Dakota and a full size. That is why I failed to mention the Nissan Titan. There is no doubt that the Titan is every bit as big of a truck as the Big 3's.

The new Tundra is really a full sized 1/2 ton rather than the 7/8 size it was before. If they come out with a dually diesel, I'm there.

BRM
02-20-2007, 06:24 PM
The new Tundra is really a full sized 1/2 ton rather than the 7/8 size it was before. If they come out with a dually diesel, I'm there.

That's what I thought. I've considered it to be in the 1/2 ton class competing with the F150, and 1500's. At least their commercials appear to be putting them in that class.

Give them time on the dually diesel. I'm sure it's coming in the next few years. But when it does, I don't expect it to be cheaper than the F350.

redsmetz
02-20-2007, 08:16 PM
(At one point, the tour guide casually mentioned that there are no unions at the plant. Meanwhile, both Ford (Hapeville) and GM (Doraville) are shuttering plants here in Atlanta...)

And yet I'm sure all of their plants in Germany and Britain are unionized. Sheesh what hypocrites.

Rojo
02-21-2007, 01:23 AM
And yet I'm sure all of their plants in Germany and Britain are unionized. Sheesh what hypocrites.

No, just businessman keeping their eye on the bottom line. The diff is they can get away with it here.