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Chip R
02-18-2007, 12:12 AM
I recall a thread about this awhile back but danged if I can find it.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blackhistory2007/news/story?id=2767197

jmcclain19
02-18-2007, 04:19 AM
This issue has always puzzled me to be honest.

By the last census - Blacks make up 12-13% and if that's reflected in baseball - that should be about 3 players per team. Now - I haven't read a demographic breakdown of the major leagues in a while - but 3 African American players per team sounds in the ballpark for how things are right now. Perhaps it's an old statistical concept of "regressing to the mean"?

Now - I know professional athletes don't always reflect the demographics of society at large, but it's an interesting point nonetheless. Something to think about.

dsmith421
02-18-2007, 04:56 AM
one of the most fascinating phenomena in sports is the utter lack of black starting pitchers. sabathia, willis, and who?

Cedric
02-18-2007, 05:06 AM
Baseball just isn't an inner city game. It's traveling teams and money growing up. It's also a patient sport and relies heavily on parents/families making sacrifices. Most of these kids just don't have that luxury.

Basketball and football are easier to get involved with and for kids to do on their own.

George Anderson
02-18-2007, 01:08 PM
This issue has always puzzled me to be honest.

By the last census - Blacks make up 12-13% and if that's reflected in baseball - that should be about 3 players per team. Now - I haven't read a demographic breakdown of the major leagues in a while - but 3 African American players per team sounds in the ballpark for how things are right now. Perhaps it's an old statistical concept of "regressing to the mean"?

Now - I know professional athletes don't always reflect the demographics of society at large, but it's an interesting point nonetheless. Something to think about.

But on the flip side what percentage of caucasians are in the NBA?? If I had to wager a guess, at best caucasians only make up 20% of an NBA roster but where is the out cry about that?

Yachtzee
02-18-2007, 02:19 PM
Baseball just isn't an inner city game. It's traveling teams and money growing up. It's also a patient sport and relies heavily on parents/families making sacrifices. Most of these kids just don't have that luxury.

Basketball and football are easier to get involved with and for kids to do on their own.

I would beg to differ. My friends and I played a ton of baseball as kids with nothing more that a tennis ball and a broomstick. Sure, travel baseball requires a large time commitment. But I don't think a whole lot of kids outside of affluent suburbs really play travel baseball. I think kids generally try to play every sport, but if you're good, at a certain point it becomes time to choose one sport or another. For most kids, that time is high school.

When kids are making that choice as far as which sport they want to specialize in, I think a lot of young African-American kids look the choices they have as far as which sport gives them the biggest reward the fastest. Basketball and Football at the high school level are by far more popular spectator sports. Everyone knows the basketball and football players, but how many kids know who is on the baseball team? Then if you're good enough, you have to choose between a college scholarship for basketball or football, where you are likely to be seen on TV even if you're going to a mid-major program, and you can leave early to go pro if you're good enough. Or you can toil in relative obscurity for 5 or 6 years in the farm system, riding busses and getting paid little money in hopes that the team that signed you will give you a shot at the pros.

If I'm a young athlete hoping for that big payday, I'd probably look to basketball or football. First, you have the chance of getting that big contract sooner rather than later. You also have to figure that if you can get on TV and show your game, some pro team is going to give you the opportunity to play. In pro baseball, you are much more dependent on the impressions of scouts, farm directors, GMs and managers in determining whether you get your shot.

Plus, with some high school and college programs, you may already have money offers under the table to go with basketball or football. How many scandals have there been with big money boosters throwing money and perks at college baseball players compared to basketball and football? I'm not saying it's right, but if I'm a kids from the streets with a family I hope to provide for, I'm probably going to look to where I can get the most reward as quickly as possible. I think its just hard for a lot of these kids to pass that up, even if they'd actually prefer to play baseball.

Cedric
02-18-2007, 02:58 PM
I would beg to differ. My friends and I played a ton of baseball as kids with nothing more that a tennis ball and a broomstick. Sure, travel baseball requires a large time commitment. But I don't think a whole lot of kids outside of affluent suburbs really play travel baseball. I think kids generally try to play every sport, but if you're good, at a certain point it becomes time to choose one sport or another. For most kids, that time is high school.

When kids are making that choice as far as which sport they want to specialize in, I think a lot of young African-American kids look the choices they have as far as which sport gives them the biggest reward the fastest. Basketball and Football at the high school level are by far more popular spectator sports. Everyone knows the basketball and football players, but how many kids know who is on the baseball team? Then if you're good enough, you have to choose between a college scholarship for basketball or football, where you are likely to be seen on TV even if you're going to a mid-major program, and you can leave early to go pro if you're good enough. Or you can toil in relative obscurity for 5 or 6 years in the farm system, riding busses and getting paid little money in hopes that the team that signed you will give you a shot at the pros.

If I'm a young athlete hoping for that big payday, I'd probably look to basketball or football. First, you have the chance of getting that big contract sooner rather than later. You also have to figure that if you can get on TV and show your game, some pro team is going to give you the opportunity to play. In pro baseball, you are much more dependent on the impressions of scouts, farm directors, GMs and managers in determining whether you get your shot.

Plus, with some high school and college programs, you may already have money offers under the table to go with basketball or football. How many scandals have there been with big money boosters throwing money and perks at college baseball players compared to basketball and football? I'm not saying it's right, but if I'm a kids from the streets with a family I hope to provide for, I'm probably going to look to where I can get the most reward as quickly as possible. I think its just hard for a lot of these kids to pass that up, even if they'd actually prefer to play baseball.

Most give up baseball before they are even ten years old. They are giving it up because there is honestly no where to play and they don't see any older kids playing.

Yachtzee
02-18-2007, 03:43 PM
Most give up baseball before they are even ten years old. They are giving it up because there is honestly no where to play and they don't see any older kids playing.

I can see that. Most kids want to grow up to be like those who are most like them. I can see young inner-city kids around here wanting to be like LeBron James, who was just a high school kid around here not too long ago. There just aren't that many baseball players from around here to emulate. While there are plenty of ball fields around here, even near the projects, a lot of them remain empty most days. But they see guys like Lebron and some of the football players who go from Kenmore or Buchtel to play for Ohio State and they want to follow suit. They have the Akron Aeros here, but I don't know if the kids from the projects can relate to those guys. NE Ohio isn't exactly a baseball hotbed up here.

Reds Freak
02-18-2007, 04:09 PM
Baseball just isn't an inner city game. It's traveling teams and money growing up. It's also a patient sport and relies heavily on parents/families making sacrifices. Most of these kids just don't have that luxury.

Basketball and football are easier to get involved with and for kids to do on their own.


If youth baseball is traveling teams and money how do you explain the increasing number of Latin Americans in the majors? I don't know much about youth baseball in that area but I can't imagine it being about travel and money.

Rocket_Fuel
02-18-2007, 04:12 PM
But on the flip side what percentage of caucasians are in the NBA?? If I had to wager a guess, at best caucasians only make up 20% of an NBA roster but where is the out cry about that?

There isn't an outcry because it's the only sport NOT dominatd by caucasians.

Cedric
02-18-2007, 04:13 PM
If youth baseball is traveling teams and money how do you explain the increasing number of Latin Americans in the majors? I don't know much about youth baseball in that area but I can't imagine it being about travel and money.

I thought we were talking about African Americans?

Latin Americans play baseball and soccer in the street and fields, not basketball as much.
It's a totally seperate foundation. Baseball just isn't seen as the outlet from the ghetto like basketball or football in America.

paintmered
02-18-2007, 04:15 PM
There isn't an outcry because it's the only sport NOT dominatd by caucasians.

Track and field?

George Anderson
02-18-2007, 04:17 PM
There isn't an outcry because it's the only sport NOT dominatd by caucasians.

I wouldnt say the NFL is dominated by caucasians

OnBaseMachine
02-18-2007, 04:20 PM
By my count, 15% of the Reds 40 man roster is made up of African-Americans. My guess is that would be above average in MLB.

Chip R
02-18-2007, 04:27 PM
If youth baseball is traveling teams and money how do you explain the increasing number of Latin Americans in the majors? I don't know much about youth baseball in that area but I can't imagine it being about travel and money.


Perhaps it's because there are fewer options for them. For Hispanics there is baseball, possibly boxing and soccer.

Astrobuddy
02-18-2007, 04:57 PM
Blacks dont play baseball because it isnt cool. MLB isnt a part of the Hip-Hop scene, other than throwback jerseys and hats. Plus, MLB players start in the minors and dont make alot of money to start. It is also about instant financial success.

If Rappers started hanging with MLB players and MLB catered to that market they would play more. I for one am glad they dont. I do wish more blacks would play the game. We are losing out on alot of very naturally talented and gifted players.

Hitting a MLB curve is alot harder than slam dunking a basketball.

vaticanplum
02-18-2007, 05:00 PM
Blacks dont play baseball because it isnt cool. MLB isnt a part of the Hip-Hop scene, other than throwback jerseys and hats. Plus, MLB players start in the minors and dont make alot of money to start. It is also about instant financial success.

If Rappers started hanging with MLB players and MLB catered to that market they would play more. I for one am glad they dont. I do wish more blacks would play the game. We are losing out on alot of very naturally talented and gifted players.

Hitting a MLB curve is alot harder than slam dunking a basketball.

I missed the part of life where you learn that all black people are rappers.

fewfirstchoice
02-18-2007, 05:03 PM
certain some bodys always try to bring race into everything and anything.i just choose to ignore it and let the certain somebodys go on there way.i mean 90% of the time theres nothing racial about what there talking about.its our fault for giving it attention but im done with that.

Trace's Daddy
02-18-2007, 05:49 PM
Everytime that race is recognized, it keeps the racism ball rolling. Who cares what the race of atheletes are?!

Bigredfan#1
02-18-2007, 05:53 PM
But on the flip side what percentage of caucasians are in the NBA?? If I had to wager a guess, at best caucasians only make up 20% of an NBA roster but where is the out cry about that?

and the % of caucasians as running backs and wide receivers in the NFL. You have to play with what you have.

harangatang
02-18-2007, 05:54 PM
one of the most fascinating phenomena in sports is the utter lack of black starting pitchers. sabathia, willis, and who?Dewon Brazelton, but I don't know what happened to him.

Chip R
02-18-2007, 06:07 PM
I do wish more blacks would play the game. We are losing out on alot of very naturally talented and gifted players.



I agree. However it's not like they are limited to playing baseball like they were in the past. MLB, the NFL and the NBA integrated pretty much at the same time. But it seems that the NBA and NFL were a little slower to fully integrate than MLB = and the NFL more than the NBA. Perhaps that had to do with a lot of southern universities being off limits to black players until the late 1960s. Today, they can choose between baseball, basketball and football. It would be nice to have more talented players in MLB but it's not like there is a barrier there.

6-4-3
02-18-2007, 06:17 PM
If African-Americans choose to pursue baseball, and are the most deserving player for a roster spot, then they should be rewarded with such. The same can be said with a white player in the NBA.

This is a non-issue, but is made an issue by the PC world / those who can leave race out of nothing. To each his own, but if the American-American athlete chooses to pursue other endeavors in the sports world it shouldn't be viewed as a crisis in baseball.

I don't hear any concerns about the NBA.

Cedric
02-18-2007, 06:57 PM
If African-Americans choose to pursue baseball, and are the most deserving player for a roster spot, then they should be rewarded with such. The same can be said with a white player in the NBA.

This is a non-issue, but is made an issue by the PC world / those who can leave race out of nothing. To each his own, but if the American-American athlete chooses to pursue other endeavors in the sports world it shouldn't be viewed as a crisis in baseball.

I don't hear any concerns about the NBA.

I don't see why people are saying it's a PC issue. To me it's what is better for the sport? I would love the best athletes to participate in every sport, Caucasian and blacks.

foxfire123
02-18-2007, 11:19 PM
I don't see why people are saying it's a PC issue. To me it's what is better for the sport? I would love the best athletes to participate in every sport, Caucasian and blacks.

:clap:

Personally, I'd like to see us get to the point where we appreciate a player for the player he is, and not give a flying you-know-what what color they are, OR feel the flippin' need to point it out at every opportunity.

Foxfire123

HumnHilghtFreel
02-18-2007, 11:53 PM
Dewon Brazelton, but I don't know what happened to him.

He was a Padre last time I checked. Not sure if he's still with them.

savafan
05-19-2007, 04:11 PM
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/05/07/0508bravesminority.html

By CARROLL ROGERS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/07/07

Upset over the lack of African-Americans on the Braves roster, members of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow-PUSH Coalition asked for a meeting with team officials. They got one Monday.

Joe Beasley, Southern Regional Director for the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, said he and Dexter Clinkscale, the director of sports for the organization, met Monday morning for nearly two hours with Braves general manager John Schuerholz, assistant general manager Frank Wren and three other Braves officials.

"The team slipped ... down to [no African-Americans]; it wasn?t something that just happened," Beasley said Monday afternoon. "I think it was a lack of diligence on the part of the Braves to recruit African-American players. There's not diminished enthusiasm for African-Americans playing baseball. It's simply the opportunity hasn't presented itself."

Schuerholz acknowledged the meeting Monday but declined further comment, saying in a statement: "We had a meeting with Mr. Beasley and another member of his organization this morning and discussed a variety of topics."

Less than 10 percent of major league players are African-Americans. In a recent interview on the subject, Schuerholz said: "You go to where the talent leads you. Finding major league-caliber baseball players is far too difficult if you try to narrow your criteria down to demographics."

Countered Beasley, "As I expected, [Schuerholz?s] idea is the bottom line: I'll put the best 40 men I can get wherever I can get them from on the field, and that's fair. But the fact of the matter is if they put resources into recruiting here in the United States, and more specifically here in Atlanta, there are talented players here."

The issue was brought to the attention of the Rainbow-PUSH Coalition during the 60th anniversary celebration of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier. The Braves and Houston Astros did not have any African-American players on their 25-man rosters at the time. The Braves' total grew with the promotion of left fielder Willie Harris, who is from Robinson?s hometown of Cairo.

"You slipped down to nothing, now you've got one, we expect it to start going up higher," Beasley said was the sentiment he voiced in the meeting. "We want to see incrementally it move back up, rather than moving down. There was an openness on [Schuerholz's] part to talk and to be in dialogue and hopefully be in partnership in trying to make sure that it happens. He was very nice, a gentleman. I'm going to hold him to his word to work with us and move those numbers back up to a respectable level."

hebroncougar
05-19-2007, 04:43 PM
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/05/07/0508bravesminority.html

By CARROLL ROGERS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/07/07

Upset over the lack of African-Americans on the Braves roster, members of Jesse Jackson's Rainbow-PUSH Coalition asked for a meeting with team officials. They got one Monday.

Joe Beasley, Southern Regional Director for the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, said he and Dexter Clinkscale, the director of sports for the organization, met Monday morning for nearly two hours with Braves general manager John Schuerholz, assistant general manager Frank Wren and three other Braves officials.

"The team slipped ... down to [no African-Americans]; it wasn?t something that just happened," Beasley said Monday afternoon. "I think it was a lack of diligence on the part of the Braves to recruit African-American players. There's not diminished enthusiasm for African-Americans playing baseball. It's simply the opportunity hasn't presented itself."

Schuerholz acknowledged the meeting Monday but declined further comment, saying in a statement: "We had a meeting with Mr. Beasley and another member of his organization this morning and discussed a variety of topics."

Less than 10 percent of major league players are African-Americans. In a recent interview on the subject, Schuerholz said: "You go to where the talent leads you. Finding major league-caliber baseball players is far too difficult if you try to narrow your criteria down to demographics."

Countered Beasley, "As I expected, [Schuerholz?s] idea is the bottom line: I'll put the best 40 men I can get wherever I can get them from on the field, and that's fair. But the fact of the matter is if they put resources into recruiting here in the United States, and more specifically here in Atlanta, there are talented players here."

The issue was brought to the attention of the Rainbow-PUSH Coalition during the 60th anniversary celebration of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier. The Braves and Houston Astros did not have any African-American players on their 25-man rosters at the time. The Braves' total grew with the promotion of left fielder Willie Harris, who is from Robinson?s hometown of Cairo.

"You slipped down to nothing, now you've got one, we expect it to start going up higher," Beasley said was the sentiment he voiced in the meeting. "We want to see incrementally it move back up, rather than moving down. There was an openness on [Schuerholz's] part to talk and to be in dialogue and hopefully be in partnership in trying to make sure that it happens. He was very nice, a gentleman. I'm going to hold him to his word to work with us and move those numbers back up to a respectable level."

Now THAT is ridiculous. Jesse Jackson is a joke.

dougflynn23
05-19-2007, 05:39 PM
:) True story. My son is 13 and plays on a non-select but high quality Knothole baseball team made up of boys from the Colerain/Mt Healthy area. They have 13 players, 6 African-American and 7 white. When we go to Champions in Blue Ash, we get stares from the "all-white" West Chester, Fairfield, and Blue Ash select teams like we just arrived from another planet.

I had a coach of one of those teams actually ask me where we were based out of, and he expressed his surprise that we had "black" players at this level. Most "select" teams are based out of communities such as Blue Ash, Sycamore Township, Montgomery, Milford, Anderson, the Oak Hills school district, or Butler County. All one has to do is look at the demographics of those areas to see the makeup.